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A89672 A conference with a theist. Part II. Shewing the defects of natural religion; the necessity of divine inspiration; the rationale of the mosaical laws, and defence of his miracles : together with an account of the deluge, the origin of sacrifices, and the reasonableness of Christ's mediatorship. / By William Nicholls ... Nicholls, William, 1664-1712. 1699 (1699) Wing N1094A; ESTC R181001 142,863 328

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upon account of our Sins by the name of Satisfaction For this is no bloody revengeful satisfaction which impotent and passionate Minds are wont to call for but only such a just debt as ought to be pay'd to the Justice of God considered as the Governour of the World I am not insensible that some Calvinistical Writers have carried this matter a little too far by leaving no room at all for the Mercy of God to exert it self in this wonderful dispensation and making the divine Justice to require a satisfaction to be made by the same specifick Infinite Punishments which we had deserved in the Sufferings of our Saviour so as to think that no satisfaction could be unless Christ actually suffered upon the Cross all the Eternal Torments of the Damned intensivè as they speak though not extensivè so that our Saviour in his Agony and Crucifixion must suffer Torments as much infinitely greater than Damned Souls as their Eternity of Suffering is longer than the hours of our Saviour's Passion But this has no foundation in Scripture and seems horrid to Christian Ears It is enough to say That the Mercy of God disposed him to accept of the Temporal Sufferings of Christ for our Sins in lieu of the Eternal punishments which we had deserved And so the infinite dignity of the person suffering was a sufficient satisfaction to the Divine Justice offended and unspeakable mercy was shewn to offending Mankind by being free from that punishment which otherways they must have undergone themselves So that Infidel and Socinian scoffers do very ill to arraign the Mercy of God and to tax him with Revenge and Implacability in demanding such a Legal satisfaction for by the same Rules they might expose all the Legislative Authority in the World when Criminals suffer by their sanctions For there is no other way to maintain the L●gislatours honour and to engage Men to observe his Laws but by inflicting an Exemplary punishment on offenders for otherways their Laws would be but Cobwebs and their Authority the May-game of Licencious Transgressours But in this vicarious punishment of Christ for us God is far from shewing himself an Angry or Implacable Governour but does rather manifest the greatest Tenderness and Compassion in being willing that all the World should escape their deserved punishment and Christ only suffer for them all and in accepting the Temporal Pains of his Cross for those of Eternal Death which they had deserved AVicarious punishment not unjust Gen. 9.25 2 Sam. 21.8 2 Sam. 24.15 Jos 7.14 1 King 21.29 2. Neither is it unjust that Christ should undergo a vicarious punishment for us For that vicarious punishments are not in themselves absolutely unjust may be proved not only from Scripture Instances where Children are punished for their Parents and Subjects for their Princes but by the notion which the most civilized Nations have always had of the lawfulness of punishing sureties for the Parties they were engaged for by their denying the publick honours to the Children of notorious Offenders by Decimations in their Armies and by killing the innocent Hostages when the Articles were not performed Now if the Greeks and Romans who of all other Nations pretend to the exactest Rules of the aequum bonumque could see no obliquity in these vicarious punishments there is certainly a far less pretence of injustice to be laid to God's charge in ordering Christ to suffer for the Sins of the World Now it is impossible here that there should be any injustice or injury Here was no injustice done to Christ for he was pleased voluntarily to lay down his Life for us Neither was it any injustice done to God for God Authorized him to do it by a mutual stipulation betwixt the Father and the Son And our Saviour says expresly Joh. 10.18 I have Power or Authority 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to lay down my Life So that there is no more injustice committed in our Saviour's laying down his Life in a voluntary Suffering for us than there is in his laying it down according to Socinus his Notion for a Testimony of his Doctrine And I am sure I could prove it as equally unjust for God to put him upon preaching a Doctrine that would cost him his Life as to let him lay down his Life to save a World 3. Christ tho' God might suffer And as for your Tragical Exclamations against the Orthodox Doctrines which makes the Eternal Son of God who is himself God blessed for ever to be incarnate and to suffer for the Sins of the World this does by no means render the Deity passible a Notion which all Christians abhor But by reason of the Union of the Deity with Flesh or Humanity which was Patible Christ was then in a possibility of suffering and those sufferings which were proper only to one Nature are attributed to the whole person by reason of the intimate Union of the two Natures Nay the Scripture it self attributes the properties of the inferiour Nature viz. the Humanity to the Divinity the superior one As when it is said that we are redeemed by the blood of God we must not think as if God could bleed or die but that That Person who was both God and Man who by vertue of his Humanity was capable of suffering laid down his Life for us to redeem us Now here is nothing in this of Absurdity but only adorable mystery and admirable Wisdom which the Thoughts of Man could never have reached to and no human Counsel could ever have contrived To find out such a way to save the Souls of Lost Mankind and to secure God's honour and the Authority of his Laws Phil. I have one thing more to objects to you upon this head and that is the Christian Doctrine which you teach about Christ's Intercession and that is so odd and gross a notion as no rational Man can assent to For you make Christ continually at his Prayers in Heaven to God the Father to pardon the Sins of Mankind upon their Repentance and to bestow his Benefits upon them which God in his own nature is inclined to do without this bustle of Intercession Besides it looks like a piece of Pageantry as your Doctors explain it to have Christ continually exhibiting the wounds of his Crucified Body to the Father to move him to compassion and to put him in mind of the Sacrifice he was made for Mans Sins which it is impossible that an Omnipotent Knowledge could be unmindful of Methinks this looks like a Piece of Homerick Divinity when the Poet describes Heaven acording to all the formalities and sillinesses which are seen in human nature Cred. There is nothing in the Christian Doctrine of Intercession but what is agreeable to good sense and reason No Incongruity in the Dostrine of Christ's Intercession and all expressions which do seem to imply any such grossness in them as you imagine must only be understood Figuratively To what state of Bliss the Glorified Body of our Blessed Saviour is exalted whilst we poor Christians live in this Vale of Misery and Tears we are not able to imagine or with what divine actions his humanity is employ'd All that we can be certain of is what the Scripture tells us that we have an Advocate with the Father Jesus Christ the righteous 1 Joh. 2.1 that he is said to intercede for us at the right hand of God Rom. 8.34 that he is entered into Heaven it self now to appear in the presence of God for us Heb. 9.24 that he is a Priest continually and his blood speaks better things than that of Abel that he offers his own Sacrifice for sin for ever Heb. 9.25 and the like Now there is no need to assert that all these Expressions are taken literally when it is plain that many of them are Metaphors taken from the Levitical Law from the Piacular Sacrifices from the Intercession of the High-Priest fo● the People from his entring into the Sanctum Sanctorum c. Now St. Pa● makes use of these ritual Phrases the better to explain to the Jewish Converts th● Nature and Efficacy of Christ's Death from those outward Ceremonies of the Mosaical Law which they were well acquainted with And I doubt not but the Unbelievers themselves do think these Expressions are Metaphorical but only they have a mind to be picking up something to be flinging at Religion though they are at the same time sure 〈◊〉 will do no harm Phil. Pardon me Sir for t●is and I will not at present trouble you with any more Infidel Objections and f●● the rest of the Time that you will honour me with your Company I will endeavour to entertain you with more inoffensive Discourse Though I ca● not but acknowledge that I wish I wa● fully perswaded of the Truth of you● Religion which seems indeed upo further consideration to be a Rational Institution and well laid together which lays down the Laws of Morality more exactly and fully than the ordinary Reason of Mankind which gives an account of the grand Periods and Revolu●ions of the World and God's Providential Dispensations beyond common ●hilosophy and the light of Nature and 〈◊〉 I could get rid of some other doubts which I beg you will at your leasure satisfy then I hope you will make a thorough Convert of me THE END NOta Bene That the Internal Solid which is engraved in the Plate Fig. 〈◊〉 and is supposed to move round the ●orthern part of the Globe in a Circum-Polar Line does not belong to the present Hypothesis but is a supposition ●hereby in Time may possibly be ●ade out two great Difficulties in Natural Philosophy viz. The Cause of the direction and alteration of the Magnet ●nd the Constant Parallelism of the Earths ●xis to the Poles of the World
might guess them to be of Jewish Original For probably when the first Jews saw the Neighbouring Gentiles worshiping the Natural Gods as Sun Moon Earth Water c. they to shew these constant mutable and visible Gods to be under the dominion of their Jehovah or Invisible one began to brag of the Miracles which they pretended Jevovah had done by triumphing over poor Nature for their dear sake for whom they were fond to believe all things were made Thus this notion got from the Jews to other Nations and so they have been coining Miracles ever since But really Sir a Miracle in your sense is Non-sense For you suppose something above the power of nature which is the greatest and highest power in the World For the power of Nature is the power of God Nature is one eternal fixt immutable Chain which is infinitely drawing out and expanding it self and not capable of the least alteration now if it was possible as you suppose by a Miracle that one Link of this should be disturbed or broken the whole frame of nature would be confounded and the whole Scheme of future Beings would be infinitely irregular Nature is the Eternal Will and Decree of God executing it self and the Will of God is his very Essence however it is firm and immutable nay impossible to be changed by the contrary Will of God himself and therefore we may be sure it is not to be interrupted by the Hocus Pocus of every Capricious Prophet And indeed Miracles are nothing else but the Dreams of blockheaded brains or a ready solution of what the uneducated Mob are wont to gape at and can give no account of so that I doubt not but that a common Almanack-maker that could calculate an Eclipse or write it out of an Ephemeris would be a most wonderful Prophet among the Indians but when these People by liberal Education come to understand the exact motions of the Heavenly Bodies the Miracle would be at an end Nay any thing that is unusual is by the vulgar reputed a Miracle because forsooth they admire it though it be never so natural but it ceases to be a Miracle when their Admiration is wrought of Thus a Comet is to them a most wonderful Miracle because it appears but now and then in a great many Years but the Sun is no Miracle at all because they see it every day not that they understand the nature of the Sun better than that of a Comet but by continually beholding it it does not make so great impression upon their fancies and therefore they cease to admire it And I doubt not but this is the true reason of most of the reputed Miracles of Scripture which are but the unusual works of nature which would necessarily have been for all any Inspired Person but only they being uncommon works of nature the vulgar wondred at them and deemed them Miracles O! but we must have a care of exploding Miracles because they do demonstrate the being of a God and very lamely too For the necessary Laws of Nature and the frame of the World are a thousand times more demonstrative of it For Miracles or Interruptions in Nature make wise Men rather doubt of it and seem rather fortuitous Blunders than the wise works or Efflux of the Deity Nay what proof is there by Miracles of any thing else or that any Doctrine came from God For the Jewish Law allows that Miracles might be done by false Prophets as appears by Deut. 13.1 If there arise among you a Prophet and giveth thee a sign or wonder and the sign or wonder come to pass whereof he spake unto thee saying Let us go after other gods c. you shall not hearken unto the Prophet for the Lord your God proveth you Nay what were the Jews the better for all the Miracles they had among them supposing they were true Moses with all his Miracles was not gone from them but a few days but they were turned as arrant Heathens as any in the World and fancying the Image of God into the figure of a Calf Nay for all Miracles and Inspirations the great Solomon himself was a down-right Epicurean and imagined all things to come by chance Eccl. 3.19 20. Cred. By your leave good Philologus You have heaped here together so many Falsities or Mistakes that I am forced to interrupt you before you go any further First notion of Miracles not from the Jews 1. I pray what reason have you to think that the notion of Miracles had its origin from among the Jews Had not the Greeks and Romans in the earliest time before they ever consorted with the Jews the same notions What more common in Homer and Virgil than strange Prodigies which are wont to amaze whole Armies till they be unridled and rendered favourable by some Augur What more usual in Greek and Latin Authors than 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ostenta Portenta Miracula And you may see a whole Chapter of several of these Miracles collected together in Valerius Maximus and a great deal of the same in Plutarch Inquire of any Barbarous Nations in the World and you shall find that they have the same notion of Miracles though they never heard of the Jews For our notion of Miracles that it is the extraordinary power of God or a power above Nature is natural and easy to the minds of all Mankind but that a Miracle should be the necessary power of unwonted nature is only a Dream of the Hobbian Philosophy that few People who are awake think of 2. No Immutable Chain of Nature Neither is it any good Argument against Miracles that they would break your fixt and immutable Chain of Nature which you contend for For there is no proof that there is any such fixt immutable Chain for if there was there would be no such thing as Freedom either in God or Man but all things would be bound up by a rigid Fate of which every word we speak or action which we do is a sufficient Confutation Now either this fixt immutable Chain of Causes is God himself or the Creature or Work of God That it is not God himself I think I have sufficiently evinced Conference with a Theist Part I. in a former Discourse with you from the Absurdities which would follow by allowing in God all the Imbecillities Vices and Irregularities in Nature which are inconsistent with his Infinite Perfection And the Freedom of Man the Spontaneous Actions of Brutes and the Alterations and Changes in the inanimate parts of the World are sufficient Arguments against the latter Now if the World be the Creature of God as we have proved it to be then it must be subject to his Power and Providence For God's Creation supposes it subject to his power for what is not subject to the Power of God must have a greater Power of its own to resist his Power But this is impossible for the World or nature to have because all the
power which they can possibly have they had from God in their Creation Therefore God still keeps the power over them either to annihilate them to continue them in their being or to alter them To say that God has alienated this power or given them a greater is more absurd For this is in effect to say God has divested himself of his Deity and made the World God instead of himself All that can with any probability be said is That God by the frame and constitution of the World has been pleased to make it immutable and therefore this power being passed out of his hands he cannot recal it without violation to his Wisdom and a perfect Confusion to the present Scheme of Beings But to consider this a little As God by his Omnipotent Power created all things so by his Providence he governs them and takes care of them And it is equally absurd to say any thing should not be governed by Infinite Providence as to assert any thing might be created without Omnipotent Power Both these are God's Attributes and to do Violence to either of these is injurious to God Now how can it be said that God by his Providence takes care of the World when he has made such a fatal unalterable World that it is out of his power to take care of For whatsoever is governable or the subject of Government must be in ones power and alterable but God can no more govern a fatal World than a Man can govern the Winds and the Sea But to govern and take care of his Creatures is the necessary Attribute of a Wise and a Good God and therefore the World which he takes care of must be governable and consequently not Fatal Phil. But by the way Sir is it not more agreeable to the Divine Wisdom to create a World fixt and immutable than such a one whose Laws should be weak and shatter'd that they must need his Assistance every moment to preserve them and make them go according to his Will Cred. I do not deny but that the Laws of Nature are in themselves sufficiently firm and immutable God's Providence bet●er than Fatality and that they will unchangeably preserve their Course when it does not please God they should be interrupted by his superior power But it is no reflection upon God's Wisdom that he did not make the World so immutable that his Providence could not interpose in it Nay it would have been a greater Reflection upon his Wisdom to have made such a World which it was out of his power to controul Let any one judge if a Prince does not act more prudently by granting a limited Commission to a General and Deputy to be superseded at his pleasure than by granting an absolute and unlimited one which it is our of his power to restrain Phil. This is true among Princes because they have a finite understanding and can have no knowledge of futures and so may undo themselves by not reserving a power to themselves upon some extraordinary emergency but God Almighty knows all things because he eternally decrees them and therefore nothing can happen afterwards unexpected or contrary to his foresight and therefore he might very well compose a fixt and immutable World without any prejudice to himself or reflection upon his Wisdom Cred. Though we must not consider God as a finite Prince God a wise Governour without Fatal Laws yet must consider him as a wise Governour and he cannot be a wise Governour by fatal Laws For the Laws of Virtue which are certainly God's Laws suppose Liberty but to command a thing to be freely done which cannot but be done or is impossible to be done does argue a foolish Governour and therefore God cannot do so God must therefore reserve to himself the continual management of the affairs of nature to maintain the Freedom of Man's Will and to adjust matters so as becomes a good Governour But to go on where we left of 3. Miracles not Occurrences which the Vulgar do not understand It is another of your great mistakes to assert That Miracles are only such occurrences in Nature as the vulgar do not understand For generally the Miracles which are recorded in Scripture are such as the vulgar are as proper Judges of as the greatest Philosophers Indeed if the Miracles were only some extraordinary performances in recondit Arts and Sciences then they would afford some reason for Learned Men to question their sincerity If they were the Resolution of some very difficult questions in Algebra some curious Tables of the motions of the Heavenly Bodies for many Years some wonderful performance by Mechanick Philosophy which had amuzed the common People into the Opinion that they were Miracles then something of this nature might be pretended But when all the Miracles in Scripture are such as the meanest Men might be Judges of and which they cannot be deceived in the case is quite different Any ordinary Man might be Judge whether it were not by a Miraculous power that Bitter Waters by a word of the Prophet were made sweet that an Iron Hatchet was made to swim that a Dead Child was raised to life Every ordinary Man was as good a Judge of Tast of the Heaviness of Iron and when the Soul was departed from the Body as the greatest Philosopher When our Saviour by a word spoke turned Water into Wine Cured the Blind and the Lame and raised Men from the Dead in these cases the relieved Persons and every beholder could tell that this was above the power of nature as well as those that had continually applied themselves to the study of it There is no need for an Insight in Philosophy or the Mathematicks for Men to know when they are sick or when they are well to know that though Physick does often cure diseased Men yet words naturally do not that Medicinal Operations are slow and gradual and therefore when they see Men instantaneously cured of a Disease which for a long while has baffled the power of Medicine that this must needs be by a supernatural power when they see all natural means have failed 4. And your Assertion is equally false Miracles not make Men doubt of a God wherein you lay down That Miracles do rather make Men doubt of a God than prove his being to them Now we do not say that Miracles are the best Argument to prove the Being of a God for the most excellent frame and contrivance of the World are the most obvious proof of it But Miracles are far from making any wise Man doubt of the being of a God For the wise and constant Ends and Regularities in nature are so forcible a Proof upon Men of his Being that every little disorder cannot make a wise Man doubt of it For if I behold in any work a thousand Wise Ends that I am able to discover I may very well conclude that a few other things were as wisely design'd whose ends I
of the World esteeming them to be but corrupted streams of the ancient Revelation afforded to our first Father and as for those Texts of Scripture which you alledge they do by no means undervalue or cast any reflection upon God's Ritual Laws and Sacrifices But the design of them is to shew that Men should not place their Obedience only in the Ritual Parts of Religion whilst they neglect the more substantial Duties of Morality and this is a Truth which every honest Christian as well as you Deists thinks himself bound to believe Phil. I confess what you say does not altogether want some Probability But still methinks these vicarious Punishments seem but insignificant Trifles in matter of Religion because they do not make Men the better or the more innocent Indeed if these Expiations either in themselves or as they had relation to the Death of Christ did perfectly take away sins then there is something in what you said but they only leave the Man as they found him unless true repentance did make him better So that the Mediatorship without Repentance signifies nothing at all and Repentance where they know nothing of this Mediatorship must by all charitable Men be allow'd to be valid and therefore what need of the Mediatorship or satisfaction at all Repentance after sinning is all that Man can do or God can require 'T is true the Debt we owe to God Almighty by sinning is infinite and what then Oracles of Reason p. 207. If I owe a Million and can pay but a thousand pounds my Creditor can have but all 'T is true my Body is then subject to imprisonment that is to the further Extent of the Law but then that Law is void of Mercy So that when I have done my All that is repented what need is there of Expiation when God's Mercy will acquit me as having paid what I was able Cred. God's honour to be considered in the Mediatorship It is true that God's Mercy is that blessed Attribute to which the pardon of all our sins is owing and upon which the Mediatorship is founded This is that which gave life to the stipulation between Christ and the Father that He should dy for the sins of the whole World in which all sufficient Sacrifice all other Expiations received their Force and Energy And it 's likewise true that after Sin committed Repentance and Amendment is all we can do on our Parts But then further we Christians say that the Mediatorship must do something likewise on God's part as well as ours By Sin God's honour is violated and our Lives are forfeited now both these are to be remedied by the Efficacy of the Mediator Indeed Mercy for God to Pardon and Repentance for us to amend is all that is necessary for our security But then on the other side why must there be no satisfaction given for the injured honour of God God may be as merciful to the World as he pleases but still he must be just to his own Dignity for otherways he would devest himself of the Government of the World and leave impudent Sinners to Sin without controul And therefore we say that therein lies the admirable Wisdom of the Mediatorship that both Parties are thereby satisfied God has the security of his Honour and Man of his Salvation Phil. But Credentius this satisfaction as you call it in the Mediatorship is a Business which lies so cross in my Brains and is pregnant with such a number of Absurdities that I can never away with it And therefore you see that not only we but your Brother Christians the Socinians are so aware of the Grossness of this Doctrine that they are unanimously agreed upon it to explode it as giving Men such a barbarous notion of the Deity as is inconsistent with the Excellency of his Nature For satisfaction does suppose an angry revengeful Temper which desires to be glutted with the punishment of the offending Party which when that is brought about becomes tame good-natur'd and reconcileable But this is such a pitiful imbecillity even in humane nature as wise Men are ashamed of and therefore to attribute this to the infinite Purity and Wisdom of God is no less I think than the most daring Blasphemy But supposing there was such an Angry Vindictive Nature in the Deity yet methinks even then he should rather choose to take revenge upon every one for their own Demerits which would be agreeable to Justice and not make one Innocent Person viz. Jesus Christ who had no Sin as you suppose to suffer for the Sins of all other wicked Men and to lay the deserved Sufferings of so many outragious Offenders upon the back of the most pious and spotless Man that by your account ever came into the World But when we farther consider that this innocent Person is owned by you to be the Son of God and his only Son too and must nevertheless be Sacrificed to appease this Vindictive nature of God before he could be reconciled to the World this is such a horrid Representation of the Best of Beings as shocks human nature to consider and far outdoes all the stories of Scythian Sacrifices and Busiris his Altars And yet greater Monsters of Absurdities do appear when we consider That this suffering Person was the supreme God himself who by this Scheme is supposed to have took upon him all the Infirmities of an Human Body was hungry and thirsty and at last was crucified and died Now this does imply a sort of a Passibility in the Deity which of all Heterodoxies is the most gross and absurd Cred. I have not time now to enter with you into the nice disputes of the Socinian Controversy upon this Subject What is meant by satisfaction But however I do not see any thing in the general notion of Christ's satisfaction which does reflect at all upon the Goodness of the Divine Nature Indeed the word satisfaction is not found in Scripture but the whole substance of what the word imports is and this and all other words which are used to express any of the divine actions or nature must be used Metaphorically and not be taken in so strict a sense as when they are used properly and according to their original application Now the satisfaction which is here meant is not such a satisfaction as an angry Man requires but a Judicial or Forensical satisfaction which a Governour requires of an Offender upon the violation of his Laws Now whereas the whole Oeconomy of our Salvation is delivered in Scripture in Forensical Terms as when God is represented as a Judge Man as an Offender or Criminal God's word as the Law by which he is Condemned Death as the Punishment Christ as a Mediator and Surety his Death as an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or Price of Redemption now I think it not at all improper to call that which Christ did to free us from the obligation we were under to the Divine Justice