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A19952 The reply of the most illustrious Cardinall of Perron, to the ansvveare of the most excellent King of Great Britaine the first tome. Translated into English.; Réplique à la response du sérénissime roy de la Grand Bretagne. Vol. 1. English Du Perron, Jacques Davy, 1556-1618.; Cary, Elizabeth, Lady, 1585 or 6-1639.; Du Perron, Jacques Davy, 1556-1618. Lettre de Mgr le Cal Du Perron, envoyée au sieur Casaubon en Angleterre. English.; Casaubon, Isaac, 1559-1614. Ad epistolam illustr. et reverendiss. Cardinalis Peronii, responsio. English. Selections. 1630 (1630) STC 6385; ESTC S107359 685,466 494

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baptized can come to the remission of originall sinne And of this kinde of necessitie the examples are in small number I call that conditionall necessitie which obligeth not but in case of possibilitie and receiues exception of place time and persons and that againe hath diuers branches For first in regard of Faith there are manie points that are necessarie to be beleeued if a man be in place where he may be instructed in them or who hath time to be informed of them which are not necessary for a man that liues in a wildernesse or so pressed with the instant of death as he hath noe leasure to receiue instruction as that Christ was borne of a virgin that he was Crucified vnder Pontius Pilate that hee rose againe the third daie And manie thinges are necessary to be beleeued and holden for pointes of Faith either by the bodie of the Church in generall or by the order of the ministers and pastors which are the eyes of the Church which are not necessary for euery particular person to knowe and hold to be points of Faith as that the persons of the Trinitie are the same in essence and distinct in subsistence that the Father hath begotten the sonn necessarily and not freely that they are the diuine persōs which produce and are produced and not the essence which doth neither produce nor is produced that the workes of the trinitie without are vndiuided that the only persō of the sonn hath been incarnate and not anie of the others that in Christ there are two substances and one subsistence that the diuinitie was not to him in the steede of a soule but that besides his Bodie and his diuinitie he had a Soule sensible and reasonable that what he once tooke in hypostaticall vnion hee hath not abandoned that the diuell was created good and made hinself euill by the freedome of his will and other such like And in regard of action there are manie things necessarie in case of possibilitie and according to the oportunity of places times and persons which are not absolutely necessarie when the commoditie to accomplish them is wanting as the assistance at Church Seruice the actuall participation of the Eucharist And manie are necessarie to some as mission and imposition of handes to the Pastors of the Church and marriage to those that will haue issue which are not necessary to others And in breefe some thinges are necessary to obtaine Saluation others some to obtaine it more easilie for ones-selfe and others to procure and mediate it for other men some for the constitution of the Church and others for the edification and more ample propagation of the Church some for the simple being of Christian Religion others for the better being that is to saie for the comlynesse dignitie and splendour of Christian Religion I call necessitie of meanes that that is in behalfe of the thinges them selues as that of Sacraments to which god hath graunted power to Conferr some grace and reall operation to saluation that of the Commandementes of the morall lawe whose necessitie is imposed vpon vs by the law of nature that of repenting sins which is a meanes necessarie to obtaine their remission I call necessitie of precept that which is only obligatorie in regard of the Commaundement as the celebration of the first daie of the weeke in memorie of that wherein our lord did rise againe which wee for that cause call our Lords daie and other such like obseruations the omission whereof could be noe hindrance to Saluation but in respect of disobedience and breach of the Commaundement I call necessitie of speciall beleefe that of thoses pointes which all Faithfull if they be not preuented by death are obliged to beleeue with faith expresse distinct and determinate which the Schoolemen call explicit faith as the twelue articles of the Creede I call necessitie of generall beleefe that of those thinges which euery particular man is not obliged to beleeue with a distinct ad explicite faith as the doctrine of originall sin the article or the two wills in Christ the article that the holy Ghost proceedes frō the Father and from the Sonne the beleefe that Baptisme giuē forth of the Church prouided it be in the forme of the Church is true Baptisme and that heretickes which haue receiued Baptisme must not be rebaptised when they returne to the Church and other such like when the simple sort of faithfull people are not obliged to beleeue with a distinct and explicit faith but it sufficeth that they beleeue them generallie in the Faith of the Church that is to saie that they adhere to the Church that beleeues them by whose faith they liue whiles they remaine in her Communion as Children liue by their mothers nourishmēt whilst they are in her bowells I call necessitie of act that of those thinges which euerie particular person is obliged to execute actuallie as to Confesse the name of Christ to forgiue offences done to them to restore the Goods of an other man I call necessitie of approbation that of those thinges which euerie particular man is not bound to execute actuallie but onlie not to contradict them and not to condemne those that doe them nor the church that approoues thē ad not to separate thēselues frō her vpō this occasiō vpō paine of separating themselues frō their owne saluation as the choice to liue in virginitie and single life and other the like Of all which kindes of necessitie the Fathers haue hold 〈◊〉 manie thinges euerie one according to it is degree diuerslie necessarie to saluation as wee shall make manifest in those occasions that will offer themselues wherein to examine them it is not to be conformable to the ancient beleefe and practise of the catholicke church to hold the pointes of doctrine or actiō that the Fathers haue holden to be necessary to saluation according to some of these kindes of necessitie and to reiect the others but to conforme our selues to the ancient beleefe and catholick practise we must hold for necessary to saluation all those things that the Fathers haue holden to be necessarie to saluation in that degree and according to those kindes of necessitie as they haue holden them The fowrth obseruation is vpon the word FATHERS which some when it comes to the effect of their promise to submit themselues to the iudgment of antiquitie would restraine to the first or second age after the Apostles not that they hope to finde in that space of time anie thing in their behalfe but because the Church being then oppressed with persecutions there remaines to vs so fewe writinges of that date and those against persons and about points for the most part so differing from the disputations of this present age as the face of the ancient doctrine and practise of the Church cannot euidentlie appeare to be therein represented Now equitie would that being to compare the state of the Societies of this age wich pretend to the title of
drawne from this example for the desertion of the Catholicke Church God saith saint AVGVSTINE bad that these tribes should be separated not to diuide the Religion but the Kingdome and that 〈◊〉 this meanes vengeance might be taken vpon the Kingdome of Iuda But for as much as the ordinarie refuge of those that separate themselues from vs is to haue recourse to the Symptomes of the Iewish people and to inferr from thence the same conclusions of possibilitie of errour and licence of separation for the Christian Church and that to contradict this wee haue not onely promised to shew that there neuer happened anie accident to the visible Iewish Church wherefore they either ought or could separate themselues from her communion but also that if anie such thing had happened the cōsequence thereof could not bee applied to the Christian Church which is grounded vpon other contracts and vpon other prerogatiues It is best for vs here to quitt vs of our promise and to search the question to the bottome both concerning the Thesis and the Hypothesis In regard then of the Thesis the aduersaries 〈◊〉 Catholick religion set this foundation that the Church in all times is subiect to the same Symptomes and to the same accidents there vpon argue thus The visible Church hath had three periods the first vnder nature the second vnder the lawe and the third vnder Grace Now vnder the two first she hath bene corrupted and consequētly vnder the third she may be soe Which is as if one should saie there are three periods in the progresse of the generation of man The first during the which man liues onlie the life of plantes and is yet touched with noe other instinct then simple appetite which the Philosophers call naturall common to herbes aud trees which seemes to correspond to the condition of the first period of the Church wherein she had yet noe lawe or rule but the simple lawe of nature The second during which he liues an animated and sensitiue life which is proportioned to the state of the people of the Jewes because as man in this second progresse harh noe other knowing facultie but that of the sence which is common to him with beastes so all the obiects which were manifestlie propounded to the Iewes and all the promises which were literallie made to them were of sensible thinges And the last wherein man takes possession of the life trulie human and reasonable and is adorned and enobled with intellectuall knowledge which hath analogy with the state of the Christiā Church where the faithfull are consecrated to God by a perfect lawfull forme of religion and sticke noe longer in terrestriall and materiall obiectes but exalting their thoughtes and their hopes doe nourish intertaine themselues with spirituall and incorruptible promises Now vnder the first and second of those periods the imperfect soule of man which wee call an Embricn is subiect to perish corruptible and mortall the soule of man therefore vnder the third period is not incorruptible immortall For to preduce for a reason of exception and dissimilitude that the forme of a man during all the three periods of this progresse is not one selfe same forme the reason of the 〈◊〉 is void for as much as the diuersitie of Gods promises where it so falls out hath noe lesse power to varie the Symptomes of the Church during the three periods of her being then the diuersity of formes to varie the conditions which accompanie the three periods of the generation of man Now that the promises made to the Church vnder the last period which hath bene establisht as S. PAVL saith vpon better promises then the former be wholie different both in eminencie perpetuitie from those that haue bene made to her vnder the two first what Christian can call it in question God first in regard of eminencie and multitude did he not saie to Abraham in thy seede that is to saie as S. PAVL expoundes it in Christ shall all generations be blessed And againe thy seede shal be as the starrs of heauen and as the sands of the Sea And Aggeus describing the future estate of the Church vnder the Enigma of the re-edification of the temple doth hee not saie The glorie of this last howse shall be much greater then that of the first And the Spouse in the canticles speaking of the Jewish Church doth she not singe our Sister is little and she hath yet noe breasts that 〈◊〉 to saie is not yet in state to bringe forth and nurse vp children And doth not 〈◊〉 crie out Reioyce thou barren woman that bearest not children and thou that art no mother cast forth cryes of ioy For the children of the forsaken shall be much more in number then hers that hath a husband And a while after Lengthen the cords of thy pauillions and settle their posts for thou shalt penetrate on the right band and on the left and thy seede shall inheritt the nations And againe Cast thine eyes about thee and behold all these are assembled for thee they are come for thee thy sonns shall come from farr and thy daughters shall be borne vpon shoulders And doth not S. AVGVSTINE disputing against the Donatists crie out Feare you 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Jews should aske you where is that accomplished that your Paul hath 〈◊〉 of your Church reioyce thou barren woeman that thou bearest not and cast out cryes of ioy that thou hast noe children for the children of the forsaken are more in number then hers that hath a husband Preserring the multitude of the Christians before that of Iewes if your little number be the Church of Christ. And S. HIEROME against the Luciferians Where are these too Religious or rather too prophane persons that affirme there are more Synagogues then Churches And therefore doth not the same S. AVGVSTINE elegantlie compare the historie of the different times of the Church to that of the birth of Iacob for as much that as Jacob in his Birth thrust forth first one arme and then his head and then all his Bodie so the Church before she was borne first thrust forth one arme that is to saie a little part of her societie which was the Synagogue and then her head which is Christ and then all her Bodie which is the Christian Church But against that the aduersaries of the multitude of the Church alleadge that our Lord calls his Church A little flocke cōmaūds to enter into the straight gate it is true but it makes nothing for them for that our Lord calls his Church a little Flocke it is in regarde of her birth at the time where of she was the least the basest and most contemptible of all societies and not in regard of her progresse which himselfe compareth to that of a graine of mustard-seede which being at the beginning the least of all seedes becomes in the increase the greatest of all plantes We