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A52421 A discourse concerning the pretended religious assembling in private conventicles wherein the unlawfullness and unreasonableness of it is fully evinced by several arguments / by John Norris ... Norris, John, 1657-1711. 1685 (1685) Wing N1251; ESTC R17164 128,825 319

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Superstition and Idolatry avert them from our Church and make them sit down in the scorners chair Doth not this say in effect that all those good laws formerly made against Papists and all penalties and mulcts by virtue thereof inflicted were most unjust in punishing them for refusing to join with us in that form of worship which we our selves cannot approve of We may say with the Athenians Auximus Philippum nos ipsi Athenienses We have strengthned the hands of our Enemies against us by our own divisions and contentions It is an odious quality and that which obscures the lustre of all the commendable vertues which Franzius notes of the Cranes that oftentimes they are so vehemently enraged one with an other and maintain such a combate among themselves that they neither observe nor fear the coming of the Fowler Yea that they rather desire his approach and to be taken by him than to be reconciled to their mates with whom they are faln out It is a thing much to be feared that these men will never be at quiet and peace in the Church untill they make that true of themselves which I have read objected to the aforesaid people of Athens by way of reproach that they would never vouchsafe to treat or hear of peace but in mourning gowns namely after the loss of their friends and fortunes in the wars He hath no mind that considers not this nor heart that condoles it not Put the case that though the Liturgy of our Church was composed with so much piety and prudence yet there might remain any thing capable of amendment as a freckle in a fair Face what if it be not in all things suitable with every man's judgment or fancy as there is nothing in the world the Directory it self not excepted so well done that doth not displease some the best cook'd dishes please not every Palate yet as St. Augustine of old answered the Donatists Si peccavit Caecilianus non ideo haereditatem suam perdidit Christus Shall God therefore loose his publick worship and service shall it be trampled upon slighted and prophanely neglected because we differ about black and white as Bishop Ridley told Bishop Hooper in a Letter to him And though in these latter days preaching hath gotten ground of the Prayers of the Church in the opinion of some whom we shall see present now and then at the former but seldom or never at the latter yet withou● any detraction to that excellent ordinance of God be it spoken this most despised part of God's worship must needs be granted to have the preheminence of the other especially in these days wherein the Church is so maturely composed and throughly setled in the faith and the Book of the holy Scriptures so complete and common amongst us in our own Language by him that considers 1. First that it is the most proper and immediate worship of God and preaching but mediate as it is the means which God hath ordained to teach men how to pray and to fit them for that duty For how can they call upon him in whom they have not believed And how can they believe in him of whom they have not heard and how shall they hear without a preacher 2. Secondly it is a duty simply and entirely moral good in respect of its own nature and quality before any external constitution passed upon it and may be resolved into one of the dictates and principles of the Law of Nature imprinted universally in the hearts of all men at the creation For before the Law of the ten Commandments men began to call on the name of the Lord as being taught by the light of Nature that in God we all live move and have our being and that he is the Father of lights from whom cometh down every good and perfect gift But preaching and hearing are acknowledged by all to be instituted worship and moral onely by an external imposition and mandate of the Supreme Lawgiver 3. Thirdly it is a duty of longer duration than preaching the one being onely for this life the other for the life to come also the one proper and peculiar to men as members of the Church militant the other common to men and Angels in the Church triumphant The knowledge is small which we have on Earth concerning things done in Heaven notwithstandings thus much we know even of Saints in Heaven that they pray 4. Fourthly it is a duty of larger extent and benefit than Preaching is this onely profiteth those that be present that do hear it and attend upon it but Prayer is available even for those that are far distant yea though they be in the remotest parts of the world When Lot's preaching did no good at all to his hearers yet Abraham's prayers might have been so effectual as to have saved five wicked Cities if there had been but ten righteous persons in them What our Blessed Saviour's judgment was in this case we may easily gather by that place in the Gospel where he calls the Church 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 an house of Prayer not of Preaching Whence in the Primitive times all the Christian Temples were called and known by the name of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Oratories And publick Prayers of the Church have as much the preheminence of private as the duty it self hath of preaching in ●egard there is more force in these Prayers wherein the whole Church joyn together as one man than there can be in those that others though never so many make apart any where else I say unto you saith our Saviour that if two of you shall agree on Earth touching any thing that they shall ask it shall be done for them of my Father which is in Heaven Much more then if a Thousand and more if the whole Church They are two excellent and remarkable sayings of St. Chrysostome to this purpose which are quoted by Bishop Iewel in his reply to Harding's answer Non aeque exoras cum solus dominum obsecras atq●e cum fratribus tuis Est enim in hoc plus aliquid videlicet concordia conspiratio copula amoris charitatis sacerdotum clamores Praesunt enim ob eam rem sacerdotes ut populi orationes quae infirmiores per se sunt validiores eas complexae simul in c●elum evehantur Thou dost not so soon obtain thy desire when thou prayest alone unto the Lord as when thou prayest with thy Brethren for herein is somewhat more the concord the consent the joyning of love and charity and the cry of the Priest For to that end the Priests are made overseers that they being the stronger sort may take with them the weaker Prayers of the People and carry them up into Heaven Again he saith Quod quis apud seipsum precatus accipere non poterit hoc cum multitudine precatus accipiet Quare Quia etiamsi non propria virtus tamen concordia multum
ought not to be shew'n in the observation of the Laws of our Church now as hath been to the like Laws and Canons in former and purer times Especially if we enquire into these four things 1. What Power the Church hath to make Laws Canons and Constitutions 2. Who were the Authours and Composers of these of our Church 3. What is the subject matter of them 4. What hath been the judgment of Divines of unquestionable learning judgment and piety concerning Laws Canons and Constitutions of this nature Concerning the first That the Church hath a maternal power to decree and make Laws to bind all her children is such a clear truth as no sober person I think will question By Church I understand not all the number of the faithfull but those that have the lawfull rule and government of the Church Which is the sense that our Saviour Christ useth it in when he saith Dic Ecclesiae tell the Church for there is Ecclesia collectiva and Ecclesia representativa I take it in the latter sense By Laws I understand not any new Article of faith or any thing contrary to what God hath commanded in the holy Scriptures For it is a true maxim whoever was the Authour of it Potestas descendit non ascendit None have power in those things that are above them but in those things which are beneath them So the Church hath no power in those things which are above her but in those things which are below her Now all Doctrines of faith and other things already commanded of God are above the Church and out of her reach so that the cannot meddle with them by any Law de novo otherwise than to see them duly obeyed and observed But as for things of an indifferent and adiaphorous nature serving to external order and decency in these she hath power to ordain and make Laws and Constitutions though not contrary to yet other than what are already made in God's word holding still as near as the can to the general rules of Scripture The doctrine of Salvation is always in all places the same and can never be changed But external rites and order are alterable and variable according to the diversity of time and place and the variety of the minds and manners of men The Church of the Jews had power of ordaining other things than what were expresly set down in God's word and that for perpetual observation She ordained the two days of Purim as perpetual festivals Moreover Iudas and his brethren with the whole congregation of Israel ordained that the days of the dedication of the Altar should be kept in their season from year to year by the space of eight days from the five and twentieth day of the month Casleu with mirth and gladness This feast was instituted by Iudas Machabeus and his brethren when Antiochus Epiphanes was expelled out of Ierusalem the worship of God restored and the Temple prophaned by the Heathen again consecrated which was about 167 years before the Coming of Christ. Which feast was yearly kept ever after and our Saviour Christ himself honoured it with his own presence And if the Jewish Church had that power why then hath not the Christian the like And that the Primitive Church of Christians had and did exercise the like power is plain to any that shall reade Act. 15. and 1 Cor. 11. Secondly The Authours and Composers of these Canons and Constitutions Ecclesiastical were the reverend learned and godly Bishops Deans and Arch-Deacons and other Clergy-men of every Diocesee within the Province of Canterbury met together neither with multitude nor with tumult but lawfully and duly call'd and summoned by virtue of the King's Majesties Writ and receiving legal confirmation of that which was done by them So then the composers of those Canons were such persons as were ordained of God to rule the Church and to order what in their Wisedom should be thought convenient to whom in all things not contrary to God's will revealed in his word we are commanded obedience Luk. 12. 42. Heb. 13. 7 17 24. 1 Pet. 2. 13 14. Thirdly The subject matter of these Canons and Consitutions is of such things as concern External order decency and edification which God hath not particularly determined in Scripture but hath left to the rulers and governours of the Church to ordain and appoint within the compass of that general rule of the Apostle Let All things be done unto edifying and in order In which place those things that concern the external polity of the Church are generally expressed but the particulars are not mentioned but left to the wisedom and liberty of the Church Fourthly What have been the judgment of Divines of whose learning and piety and Church of God never yet since their times made the least doubt or question concerning Laws Canons and Constitutions of this nature They have always thought them sacred and venerable and their observation an act of Religion and Obedience to the general commands of God Instead of many take a few testimonies of Divines of the highest rank both foreign and domestick Two I shall quote out of learned Zanchy Quatenus hae leges consentaneae sunt cum Sacris Literis aut saltem non sunt dissentaneae Eatenus verae sunt Ecclesiasticae eoque admittendae nos illis obedientiam debemus ac reverentiam So far forth as these Constitutions are agreeable with the Scriptures or at least not disagreeing with them so far forth they are truly Ecclesiastical and to be received and we owe reverence and obedience to them And he gives his reason in these words Si Consentaneae sunt hae leges verbo Dei qui illas rejicit verbum Dei rejicit Si non repugnant contemnit Ecclesiam Dei qui illas contemnit Contemptus autem Ecclesiae quam Deo ingratus sit apparet cum aliis ex locis Sacrarum Literarum ubi illam magnificat tum maxime ex Evangelio Mat. 18. 17. If those Laws are agreeable with the word of God he that rejecteth them rejecteth the word of God if they are not contrary to the word of God he that rejecteth them despiseth the Church of God and how odious a thing unto the Almighty it is that any should despise his Church as it appears in many places of Scripture where the Church is magnified so especially in Mat. 18. 17. whrere God hath commanded that that person should be accounted as an heathen man and a Publican who hears and obeys not the Church Hear the same Learned Authour again Credo ea quae a piis patribus in nomine Domini congregatis communi omnium Consensu citra ullam Sacrarum Literarum Contradictionem definita recepta fuerunt Ea etiam quanquam haud ejusdem cum Sacris Literis authoritatis A SPIRITV SANCTO ESSE Those things saith he which have been concluded and received by the Holy Fathers gathered together in the
Name of God agreed on by Common-consent and without any Contradiction of the Scripture although they are not of the same Authority with the Scriptures Yet I beleive even those things to be from THE HOLY GHOST Hinc fit ut quae sunt hujusmodi c. Hence it comes to pass that those things which are of this nature I neither will disallow nor dare I with a good Conscience Quis enim ego sum c. For who am I that I should dissallow that which the whole Church approves of So far that worthy Authour The next whose judgment in this case I shall produce is Mr. Calvin in his Commentary on the Epistle to the Corinthians Quinetiam hinc colligere promptum est has posteriores scilicet Ecclesiae Leges non esse habendas pro humanis traditionibus quandoquidem fundatae sint in hoc generali mandato liquidam approbationem habent quasi ex ore CHRISTI IPSIVS Where shewing the difference betwixt the tyrannical Edicts of the Pope and the Laws of the true Church in which discipline and order are contained he saith Whence it is easie to be gathered that the Laws of the Church are not to be accounted humane traditions seeing they are founded upon the general precept of the Apostle and have as clear an approbation as if they had been delivered from the mouth of Christ Himself For saith he elsewhere Dico sic esse humanam traditionem ut simul sit divina It is so an humane tradition as that it is also divine Dei est quatenus est pars deeoris illius cujus cura observatio nobis per Apostolum commendatur hominum autem quatenus simpliciter designat quod in genere fuit indicatum magis quam expositum It is of God fo far forth as it is a part of that order and decency the care and observation whereof is commanded and commended to us by the Apostle It is of men so far forth as it simply names or signifies that which was in general uttered rather that particularly expounded Take a third testimony from that burning and shining Light of the French Church Licet quae a regia aliis Legitimis petestatibus rite praecipiuntur sunt de jure positivo quod tamen illis postquam ita constitutae sunt pareatur est de jure divino cum Legitimae potestates omnes a Deo sint Deique vices in suo ordine teneant dumque illis obedimus eorumque praecepta observamus Deo pariter in illis paremus Deique praeceptum voluntatem exequimur Although those things which are commanded by the King's Authority or other lawfull Powers under him are of positive right Yet it is of divine institution that we should obey them in those things which they command seeing all lawfull Powers are of God and supply the place of God in their several orders Therefore while we obey them and keep their Commandments we obey God in them and so fulfill the Will and Command of God Learned Beza shall be the next that shall give in his verdict to this truth Nam etsi Conscientias proprie solus Deus ligat c. For although God alone can properly bind the Conscience yet so far as the Church with respect to order and decency and thereby to Edification doth rightly enjoyn or make Laws those Laws are to be observed by all pious persons and they do so far bind the Conscience as that no man wittingly and willingly with a purpose to disobey can either doe what is so forbidden or omit what is so commanded without Sin To these above named add we in the last place the verdict of our own learned and judicious Mr. Hooker To the Laws saith he thus made id est according to the general Law of Nature and without contradiction to the positive Law of Scripture and received by a whole Church they which live within the bosome of that Church must not think it a matter of indifference either to yield or not to yield obedience Is it a small offence to despise the Church of God My son keep thy Father's Commandments saith Solomon and forget not thy Mothers instructions bind them both always about thine heart It doth not stand with the duty we owe to our heavenly Father that to the ordinance of our Mother the Church we should shew our selves disobedient Let us not say we keep the Commandments of one when we break the Laws of the other For unless we observe both we obey neither And what doth let but that we may observe both when they are not one to the other in any sort repugnant Yea which is more the Laws of the Church thus made God himself doth in such sort authorize that to despise them is to despise in them him Thus far that most judicious Authour Yea one of the reformed Churches have put it into their very Confession That those Laws of the Church deserve to be esteemed divine rather than humane Constitutions From all which it appears that Ecclesiastical Canons and Constitutions are not merely man's Laws but God's also both because they are composed and framed by those Fathers by divine Authority and have their general foundation in Scripture and also because they are ordained for the Glory of God for Edification order and decency of the Church and the better fulfilling and keeping the Laws of God For as we have a Command from Christ to tell the Church when any one is refractary and perverse So have they which are complained of to the Church that Command from Christ also to hear the Voice of God in the Church and in disobeying the Church they disobey God And if Children and Servants are bound by the Law of God to obey their Parents and Masters in all things that are reasonable honest and just and in their obedience they obey and serve God himself Eph. 6. 1. Col. 3. 20. 24. Tit. 2. 9. 10. then it can be no less pleasing to God that Christians who live in the bosome of the Church should be obedient and conformable unto the lawfull Precepts and Constitutions of their spiritual Mother the Church of Christ and the Rulers thereof It is very truly said by Calvin Semper nimia morositas est ambitiosa A frowardness and aptness to quarrell with the proceedings of the Church is accompanied with ambition and pride It is not because the Church takes too much power on her but because they would be under none It is ambition to have all Government in their own hands that is the Cause why some will not be subject to any All which hath been said of this matter is agreeable with the Doctrine of the Church of England who in her twentieth Article saith The Church hath power to decree and make Laws So in her 34th Article That whosoever through his private judgment willingly and purposely doth break the Traditions and Ceremonies of the Church which be not repugnant to the word of