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A45325 Qvakers principles quaking, or, Pretended light proved darkness, and perfections found to be greatest imperfections in an answer to a written paper, subscribed with the name of Thomas Holme, and scattered through the country about Liverpool and Lancashire / modestly propounded by Ralph Hall ... Hall, Ralph. 1656 (1656) Wing H423; ESTC R39227 32,660 37

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cups and vessels c. These are all taken away in respect of the manner of them but the substance and equity of these yet remain Wash thy heart O Jerusalem how long shall thy vain thoughts lodge within thee Jer. 4.14 and Isa. 1.16 And our Saviour taking notice of the strictness of the Pharisees about these washings saith Ye make clean the out side of the cup and platter but the inside is full of filthiness and uncleanness Mat. 23.25 26. And so David I will wash my hands in innocency so will I compass thine Altar O Lord Psal. 26.6 By all which Scriptures we see that the summe and substance of all the Law even of the Ceremonial part it self remains unchangeable though the manner of Administration be not onely changed but disanulled and taken out of the way as the lesser light to wit of a Candle is swallowed up of the greater light to wit the Sun Thus we see how the Priests work is changed viz. in point of Administration onely and so the Priests are changed in point of their Administration-work but in respect of the order of the Priesthood it is not changed For Christ is a Priest for ever after the Order of Melchisedeck so that from everlasting to everlasting the Priesthood in point of substance is one and the same for ever I might instance in the Sacraments of old under the Law and make it out that the summe and substance of them not only remain the same but are more lively held forth in those two Sacraments that Christ hath instituted and left to continue in his Church to his second coming 1 Cor. 11.26 Mat. 28.19 20. And what is held forth in the Gospel Israel had under the Law though more obscurely held forth Yet they did all eat the same spiritual meat and did all drink of the same spiritual drink for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them which Rock is Christ 1 Cor. 10.2 3 4. And Christ saith of Abraham That he rejoyced to see Christs day he saw it and was glad Joh. 8.56 But you say further the Commandement is disanulled I shall say so too if you mean the rigor and curse of it in relation to the Covenant of Works so as that it is not now Do this and live in the same circumstantial manner as it was under the Law but the equity summe and substance remains to this day viz. In manifesting our obedience to the Gospel of Christ as before to the Law of God not as I said even now in the same circumstantial manner but in another equivalent to it viz. in repentance faith love and new obedience without which no salvation and in truth when I seriously consider the Law and Gospel I find the Law to be nothing else but Gospel foretold and the Gospel nothing else but the Law fulfilled where lyes now the disanulling of the Commandement except in the sence before mentioned for as to the total annihilating disanulling or destroying the Law our Saviour disclaims it in his own words I came not to destroy but to fulfil the Law Matth 5.17 And the Apostle Paul having spoken largely to these forementioned distinctions lest any should as you seem to do mistake him and from his own words utterly abrogate and make void and useless the Law he saith in plain words Do wee then destroy the Law God forbid we rather establish the Law Rom. 3.31 And in truth I find our blessed Lord and Saviour so far from destroying the moral Law that he rather sets a sharper edge upon it and makes it of greater force and more binding in reference to the strict observance of it for saith he It hath been said of old Matth. 5.27.28 thou shalt not commit adultery but I say unto you he that shall look upon a woman so as to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart And whereas Moses suffered the putting away of wives upon dislikes and disagreements Christ tells us If any man put away his wife for any cause save for the cause and in the case of Fornication hath broken the Law and he that shall marry her that is divorced committed Adultery Mat. 5.32 And though these things and others of the like nature were not so expresly set down in the Moral Law yet they were fully included in the Commandement by all which we plainly see the harmony and agreement between Law and Gospel And thus having briefly yet plainly explained wherein the Law and Priesthood is changed and the Commandement disanulled I proceed to the great question in controversie viz. concerning the lawfulness or unlawfulness of giving and receiving Tythes and that as briefly and plainly as I can Now as we have seen the equity of the Law of God held forth in the Gospel in some cases so we may if we will see it held forth in this very case of Tythes 1 Cor. 9.14 Even so hath the Lord ordained That they that preach the Gospel should live of the Gospel I would gladly have any of you to shew me where and when this Ordination of God by the Apostle here cited was made manifest I know you could if you would but in regard you cast off the Law as useless I pray you see how you differ from the mind of the Apostle you need not to go far for this only cast your eye upon the 9. vers. of the forecited Chapter and you shall see It is written saith the Apostle in the Law of Moses and here at this 14. vers. Even so hath the Lord ordained as if the Spirit of God foreseeing such a generation of men as you are going about to rent and tear one part of the word of God from another he here joyns them in such an inseparable bond as the whole world is never able to unloose and not only so but draws all that is necessary to be received of us in point of comfortable maintenance of the Ministry into an intire doctrinal conclusion viz. That those that preach the Gospel should live of it is Gods own Ordinance and this he proves by Scripture from the 25. of Deut. 4. and having thus proved it by Scripture he argues it from several reasons drawn first from the equity of it vers. 7. Who goeth a warfare at any time at his own charges who planteth a vineyard and eateth not of the fruit thereof or who feedeth a flock and eateth not of the milk of the flock But further If we have sown unto you spiritual things is it a great matter if we reap your carnal things vers. 11. Again do we not know That they that Minister about holy things live of the things of the Temple and they that wait at the Altar are partakers with the Altar vers. 13. But you may perhaps say This was so in the time of the Law but ought it so to be now yea saith the Apostle Even so hath the Lord ordained that they that preach the Gospel should live of the
come to Judgement but my meaning is if we judge our selves we shall not be so judged as to be condemned of the Lord But to the matter in hand If the Law you speak of be the Law of God it cannot be repugnant to the Law of God lest as a standing Rule for men to walk by to the end of the world I need not prove what I mean here viz. Gods immutable and unchangeable Word the Scriptures which have been so clearly proved to bee one with God that I need not say any more than what I have already said but this I affirm that whatever pretended colour you put upon it if it be not Law and Testimony proof I shall give no credit to it for to the Law and to the Testimonies if they speak not according to this word it is because they have no light in them Isa 8.20 Secondly If it were the Law of Nature for all there might bee differences in judgement there would not be in Natural affection and therefore disciphering out some that Sathan had gotten into his power so as to bee led Captive by him at his will he sets this mark or brand upon them that all men might know them viz. without Natural affection Again if it were the Law of Nature it would lead us to acts and expressions of Human Civility for the best of Gods Saints were always ready to give civil Language and modest expressions to the worst of Gods enemies even to their Persecutors nay our blessed Saviour speaking to Judas saith Friend betrayest thou me with a kiss Matth. 26.49 50. But you dare not afford Civil deportment and Language to godly and holy men no not to the Ministers and Embassadours of the Lord Jesus Christ for fear of offending against this Law you say men ought to be guided by but the good Lord guide me by his Law written in the Scriptures and if it be his will give you both will and skill to judge aright of that Law written within and if it bee not according to Gods Law to look upon it as the delusion of the strong man armed that will be sure to keep the House till a stronger than he come in his power and throw him out Mark 3.27 I come now to the Second Admonition concerning that Light you say is within a man to which he only is to look I conceive it must either be First The light of Nature or Secondly The light that cometh by the illuminating Spirit of God or else no light at all but darkness put for light Isa. 5.20 But for the first of these viz. The Light of Nature you utterly disclaim it for you are no more Natural but Spiritual and that not only in part but in perfection I say as I said before I judge you not you stand and fall to your own Master But that you and I may the better judge our selves and of this light within us I conceive it will be our wisdom to try of what kind it is by observing whither it leads us and First If it lead us with joy and delight to the Assemblies of the Saints to the place where God hath promised his more special presence to the Church of God the ground and pillar of truth 1 Tim. 3.15 I should then look upon it as sometimes David did Even as a Lanthorn to my feet and a light unto my paths Psal. 119.105 but if any mans soul draw back Gods soul will have no pleasure in that man and If any man put his hand unto the Plow and look back he is not apt to the Kingdom of God But it may be you will object the thing I aime it viz. The joyning of your selves to our Churches you dare not do because there is corruption in them I answer it is truly desired of all Gods people that there were none But we know there will bee Tares among the Wheat though the Servants of the Lord of the Harvest would gladly have them plucked up and weeded out yet it is the Lord of the Harvest his Decree that they shall grow together till the Harvest not that hee hath an eye upon the Tares but lest whilst his servants going about to pluck up the Tares should pluck up the Wheat also Mat. 13.28 29 30. Secondly If this light lead us to the imbracing of Gods whole intire and individual word in the love of it if it lead us to close with Christ in sweet communion in those his Ordinances that are by him appointed not only for the begetting but also increasing and strengthening of Faith and all other Graces of his Spirit I mean the Sacraments of the New Testament so as we can receive Soul-refreshment and Grace-strengthening thereby I say if this light lead us this way I should be assured it were the Spirit of God otherwise I cannot but look upon it as a delusion of Sathan to which God had in Justice given me up because I would not embrace him in the tenders of his love in the Gospel and because I would not receive his Word in the love of it he had given me up to beleeve a Lye and to hearken to the Father of Lyes who though he transform himself into an Angel of Light yet goes about by all deceiveableness of unrighteousness to delude poor souls to their utter destruction and perishing I therefore desire that you and I might b● careful to try the spirits whether they be of God or no for many false spirits as well as false Prophets are gone out into the world 1 Joh. 4.1 I have but one word more and I have done methinks it should not bee the work of the Spirit of God to revile Gods Ministers and ●oyse S●●vants for indeed I finde it ranked amongst the works of the flesh Gal●th 5.21 And else-where the Spirit of God ranks Revilers amongst such as shall not inherite the Kingdom 1 Cor. 6.9 10. and indeed your inhuman Raylings false and slanderous Accusations unchristian Judgings and Censures that you ordinarily pass upon all that are not of your Opinions what do they but render you to be a people that take to your selves that boldness that an Angel of God durst not do when hee was to deal in dispute with the Devil of Hell for saith the Text He durst not bring against him a rayling accusation but said the Lord rebuke thee Jude 9. I pray observe what a strange expression the Holy Ghost makes use of here an Angel of God an Arch-Angel the best of Created Creatures disputing with the Devil worse than the worst of men yet durst not I say durst not bring against him a rayling accusation but it is too apparent that men below the Angels of Heaven dare bring rayling accusations against those that are farre enough above Devils For God made man a little lower than the Angels Psal. 8.5 6. If I had not just occasion to blame you for your rayling accusations against them that cannot be denied to be your Fellow-Creatures if no more could be said for them But your bolt is shot against Gods choycest Servants and which I desire may be seriously considered Sathan is called The Accuser of the Brethren Revel. 12.10 these things considered I desire you and I may in good earnest examine our selves and if we finde our selves guilty judge our selves and a farre as you are found in fault I heartily with if it be the good pleasure of God you may bee truly sensible of it and return and joyn your selves to the Communion of the Saints in the Publick Ordinances of God that we may have as sweet Fellowship and Communion with the Father and the Son and with one another as ever we had before your going out from us by which you have declared your selves not to be of us for had you been of us doubtless you would have continued with us 1 Joh. 2.19 And with which I will conclude if either you or any man or men teach otherwise and consent not to wholsome words even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the Doctrin which is according to godliness let him pretend as much humility as he can He is proud knowing nothing but doting about questions and strifes of words whereof cometh envie strife raylings evil surmisings 1 Tim. 6. ● 4. I desire this and all other Scriptures that are written may be as effectuall to you as sometimes the read●ng of the thirteenth Chapter to the Romans was to Saint Augustin and it shall rejoyce my heart I charge you that this Epistle be seriously read of all that you account to be the holy Brethren FINIS * Thi sense you seem ●o ●avo●r in your Paper
methinks upon very good ground in regard a way more agreeable to Gods Word could not be found Besides which way could a more equall way be imagined for doth not the Minister as well as the people in this thing depend upon Gods blessing or cursing the earth whether his allowance shall bee more or less plentiful or scarce so as both Minister and people shall be in one capacity either to bless God for plenty or to wrastle with God in times of famine and scarsity for the removal of the Judgement Now seeing it is thus agreeable to the Law of God and Nations and so full of equity who art thou O man that dare so desperately set thy self against both the Law of God and man sure I am in my own experience since I knew the right hand from the left I never observed any that made a scruple of pretended conscience of paying Tythes but they fell by little and little not only to the denial of all maintenance to the Ministers but even to the despising of them though they cannot but know that he that despiseth them despiseth their Lord and Master the Lord Christ I profess I cannot conceive any reason why you should with such vehemency set your selves against the maintenance of the Ministry unless it bee either First to bring them into reproach and ignominy and so make them contemptible that God commands us to account worthy of double honour and so on set purpose contradict God 1 Tim. 5.17 or Secondly which indeed I rather judge to be the ground of it viz. The cunning policy of Sathan that knows well enough that this Doctrin will bee readily received of all that out of meer covetousness are loath to part with that which God requires and it may be your deluded fancy to make use of this Doctrin to increase the number of your Proselites for there is not a covetous worldling but he will be ready to joyn with you in this Doctrin seeing so fair a pretence made for it viz. a case of Conscience though he shall one day know that this very Conscience shall rise up in Judgement and condemn him as a meer covetous wretch I remember towards the close of your great Argument against Tythes you draw towards what you chiefly aim at and by your own rate of Argument go about to argue the Dispensors of Gods Word and Ordinances to bee neither Ministers of Law nor Gospel and usurp to your selves that power that was proper and peculiar to the Apostles of Christ and indeed is now to the Ministers of the Gospel 1 Tim. 1.20 viz. That great power of Excommunication for say you from the Law and Gospel do we shut them which is indeed the highest degree of Excommunication but you have utterly disenabled your selves from having any thing to do in this matter by breaking your selves off and renting your selves from the mystical Body of Christ which is his Church in whose hand this power lyes 1 Tim. 1.20 with 1 Cor. 5.4 5. and whereas you adde That the Ministers had excluded themselves if you mean those of them that gave you the meeting I utterly deny it for they have not rent themselves from the Church neither hath the Church cast them off you afterwards enjoyn them Confession and Repentance and indeed I do and they will acknowledge it a necessary duty for the best of Gods people have sin enough to make confession of and to bee humbled for except those like your selves who say they are whole and need not the Phisitian but let me tell you if I hear a man crying out Keep at a distance come not near for I am holier than thou Isa. 65.5 I would get as farre from that man in judgement and practise as I could though I would be as near to him in affection as I durst for fear of displeasing God I cannot but before I leave this point answer you in one of your reproachful expressions that you make use of in your Paper I call it reproachful because you would from it cast reproach upon Gods Ministers otherwise I acknowledge the words you bring in are the words of a Prophecy and are these Put into their mouthes and they cry peace peace but put not into their mouthes and they prepare warre Micha 3.5 and this you say is fulfilled in many of the Priests of England who as you say Sues many at the Law and casts many into Prison because they put not into their mouthes I confess I know not one president of this nature but if any be I hope there is not a godly Minister in England that would steer this course towards any that were not well able to pay their dues and indeed for those that are well able to pay but out of a refractory gain-saying and contradicting minde will not pay I think the Minister should sin if he did not Sue such at Law and my reasons are those two F●●st s●e should sin in tollerating an evil example that all covetous wretches would be ready to follow Secondly He would hereby frustrate that great end for which the Law was made and ordained The Law was not made for the good and gentle and obedient but for the stubborn refractory disobedient and lawless that can and will not answer to their duty so as to perform it It is true it is desired that Christian Brethren would dwell so together in love and unity each one striving who should go before another in ready performance of every just and equal thing that there needed no going to Law according to that we read 1 Cor. 6.1 c. most of which Chapter is laid out on this very thing But whilst we live in this world there will bee Tares among the Wheat there will be such men as Christians could not live amongst were it not for the Law for all you so much disclaim the necessity of it and not only so but the very use of it But further I have thus much to say in vindication of godly Ministers they both preach against and often times deny themselves in point of their own right to avoyd this unchristian work of going to Law and utterly set themselves against any that shall go about to fleece the Flock of Christ and neglect the performance of their duty and in their Sermons upon occasion preach against careless Shepheards blinde Watch-men and dumb Doggs as you can yet for all this if there be any that are not faithful in discharge of their Office as Moses was faithful in all his house Numb. 12.7 shall we for such a ones sake condemn all the Lords Embassadors God forbid we might as well condemn all the twelve Disciples and Apostles of Christ because one of them was a Devil which none that fears God dare assert And now if any be not yet satisfied in this point I refer him to the Labours of a learned Divine in his time viz. Bishop Hall who in a little Treatise of his called Practical Cases of
of the anguish of his soul cursed the day of his birth c. I say after all this when Job comes to himself he cryes out against himself I abhor my self and repent in dust and ashes Job 42.6 If Job had been perfect what needed he to have repented but further we find the Apostle Paul disclaiming perfection in himself Phil. 3.12 13. Not as though I had already attained or were already perfect but I follow after c. And at vers. 14. Brethren I count not my self to have apprehended but this one thing I do forgetting those things that are behind and reach forth towards those things that are before c. And at vers. 15. Let as many as be perfect be thus minded as if the Apostle had said The highest degree of perfection that I have attained to is to be sensible of my own imperfection Secondly Hee not only disclaims perfection in himself but fully asserts that both Jew and Gentile are all under sin and there is none righteous no not one there is none that doth good no not one c. Rom. 3.9 10. See further for this Isa. 64.6 But we are all as an unclean thing and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags and we all do fade as a leaf and our iniquities like the wind hath taken us away And what more plain against your doctrine of perfection then these Scriptures But secondly I shall prove it by Argument 1 If we could attain to be absolutely perfect men and free from sin we should be freed from death if Adam had not sinned hee had not dyed In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely dye Gen. 2.17 And the wages of sin is death Rom 6.23 From whence I argue no work no wages no sin no death But it is appointed unto all men once to dye and after death to come to judgement And why so Because all have sinned Rom 5.12 As by one man sin entred into the world and death by sin and so death passed upon all men for that all have sinned Sure then our perfection as well as our portion is in reversion So at vers. 5. If we have been planted together with him in the likeness of his death we shall bee also in the likeness of his resurrection Observe as we are in the one we shall be in the other 2 If we were perfectly free from sin we should be free from temporal punishments and afflictions which are the fruits and effects of sin otherwise God were unjust But the best of Gods people are daily liable to temporal afflictions therefore short of perfection 3 If we were perfect we could not sin at all But in many things wee offend all James 3.2 And if we say that we have no sin we deceive our selves and there is no truth in us 1 Joh. 1.8 4 If we were perfect here we should have the end of our hope here But if in this life onely Christians had hope they were of all men most miserable 1 Cor. 15 19. 5 And lastly If we could attain to absolute perfection here we should enjoy our glorious and eternal rest here but the Apostle was of another judgement For saith he Doubtless there remains a rest to the people of God Heb 4.9 Job likewise agrees with the Apostle Job 3.7 and that holy man of God John the Divine heard other news and that from Heaven too Rev. 14.13 I heard a voyce from heaven saying unto me Write from henceforth blessed are the dead that dye in the Lord even so saith the Spirit for they rest from their labours and their works follow them So then our rest is in heaven doubtless our perfection is not here But I remember you pleaded hard for perfection that time the Ministers gave you the meeting at the Greave-house from these two Scriptures viz. How shall I that am dead to sin live any longer therein and again As the tree falls so it lyeth from whence you truly inferred that as Death leaves a man Judgement is sure to finde him both which are the truths of God being rightly understood As to the first of these viz. How shall I that am dead to sin live any longer therein it is true I cannot so as to make it my trade and living nor yet so as to live in the least known sin with allowance of my self therein nor yet as the Scripture phrase is to tumble and wallow therein as the Sow that is washed doth in the mire But hence to assert that he that is dead to sin is freed from sin will not follow for God knows many are the secret sins of the best of Gods people and therefore David a man after Gods own heart crys out unto the Lord Lord cleanse me from my secret sin and not only so but hee prays earnestly that God would keep him that presumptuous sins might not prevail over him Psal. 19.13 sure I am David was sensible of his own imperfection But Secondly As the Tree falls so it lyes or As Death leaves us Judgement is sure to finde us For that man or woman that doth not here in this life by faith make good his proprietie and interest in the Lord Jesus Christ shall never have benefit by him in the Life to come for saith he He that beleeveth on me hath eternal life but he that beleeveth not is condemned already Joh. 3.16 18. I freely acknowledge living and dying in unbeleef renders a man truly miserable for as there is no praising of God in the Grave so there is no actings of faith there but As the tree falls so it lyes but it follows not hence that we are perfect here unless it be by faith in the Son of God and in that sence I shall be of your judgement for all Gods people as well as Job do know that their Redeemer liveth and that they shall see him at the last day not with other but their own eyes and indeed Christ is perfection it self I have only Three things more to admonish you of else I shall fall too short of a full answer to your Paper First one is concerning that Law that you say is written in mens hearts by which only they are to be guided Secondly Concerning that light you say is within a man to which only he is to look and Thirdly Concerning your rayling reviling and unchristian Language that you ordinarily put forth in both your speakings and writings I am resolved to clear my self in the sight of God of all malice and envie in what I shall say to these and what I do speak to speak in faithfulness And first The Law written in mens hearts it must needs be either First the Law of God or Secondly The Law of Nature or Thirdly No Law at all but a delusion of Sathan I shall be farre from judging any of you and as free in desiring you to judge your selves that you be not judged of the Lord Mistake me not I know all men and women shall