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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A09097	A conference about the next succession to the crowne of Ingland diuided into tvvo partes. VVhere-of the first conteyneth the discourse of a ciuill lavvyer, hovv and in vvhat manner propinquity of blood is to be preferred. And the second the speech of a temporall lavvyer, about the particuler titles of all such as do or may pretende vvithin Ingland or vvithout, to the next succession. VVhere vnto is also added a new & perfect arbor or genealogie of the discents of all the kinges and princes of Ingland, from the conquest vnto this day, whereby each mans pretence is made more plaine. Directed to the right honorable the earle of Essex of her Maiesties priuy councell, & of the noble order of the Garter. Published by R. Doleman.	Allen, William, 1532-1594.; Parsons, Robert, 1546-1610, attributed name.	1595 (1595)	STC 19398; ESTC S114150	274,124	500

A CONFERENCE ABOVT THE NEXT SVCCESSION TO THE CROWNE OF INGLAND DIVIDED IN TO TVVO PARTES VVHERE-OF THE FIRST CONTEYNETH THE discourse of a ciuill Lavvyer hovv and in vvhat manner propinquity of blood is to be preferred And the second the speech of a Temporall Lavvyer about the particuler titles of all such as do or may pretende vvithin Ingland or vvithout to the next succession VVhere vnto is also added a new perfect arbor or genealogie of the discents of all the kinges and princes of Ingland from the conquest vnto this day whereby each mans pretence is made more plaine DIRECTED TO THE RIGHT HOnorable the earle of ESSEX of her Maiesties priuy councell of the noble order of the Garter Published by R. DOLEMAN Imprinted at N. with Licence M. D. XCIIII THE SOMME OF BOTHE PARTES MORE IN PARTICVLER THe first declareth by many proofes arguments that the next propinquitie or ancetry of blood alone though it were certaynly knowne yet that it is not sufficient to be admitted to a crowne without other cōditions and circumstances requisit be founde also in the person pretēdent THe second examineth the titles and pretentions of al such as may haue clayme or action to the crowne of Ingland at this day what may be said for them and what agaynst them and in the end though he leaue the matter extreme doubtful as touching the best right yet he giueth certayne coniectures about some persons that are lykest to preuaile TO THE RIGHT HONORABLE THE EARLE OF ESSEX OF HER MAIESTIES PRIVY COVNCEL VVo principal causes among others right honorable are wōt to inuite mē to dedicate any booke or treatise to a person in authoritie the one priuate duty obligatiō the other publiquevtility in respect that the matter may concearne that person for the cōmō good And to cōfesse the truth both of these ioyntly haue moued me at this tyme to present vnto your honour aboue others the two bookes ensuing which conteyne a conference had in Holland not long since about the pretences pretenders to the crowne of Ingland as your honour shall perceaue by the preface of each booke therfore herof I shall need say no more but only declare the fore said two causes of this dedication First then I saye that my particuler obligation towards your honours person riseth partly of good turnes and benefites receaued by some frendes of myne at your Lordships handes in your last voyage exploits in Frāce but principally of far greater fauours receaued from your noble ancestors I meane not only your father whose untimely death was to Inglād no smalle woūde but of your grādfather also that worthy Knight Sir VValter Deuorax who though he liued not to come to those titles of honor wherunto he was borne yet left he behinde him so rare a memory for his excellent partes of lerning wit feuter of body curtesie other such noble commēdations as none in Ingland perhapps the lyke in our tyme wherin also hath liued your honours great grandfather Sir Henry Deuorax visconde Ferys wel remembred yet by diuers of my said frendes obliged vnto him as also recorded by our Inglish histories as well for his merits worthines as in lyke manner for his match with the heyre of the most famous noble house of the Bourchers earles of Essex wherof also your honour is knowne to be discēded to hold at this day as wel their nobilitie of bloode as dignitie of title this shall serue in this place for my perticuler obligation wherof perhapps here-after vppon other occasion I may giue further relation and testimony to the world in token of my gratitude But for the second pointe of publique vtilitie I thought no man more fitt then your honour to dedicate these two bookes vnto which treate of the succession to the crowne of Ingland for that no mā is in more high eminent place or dignitie at this day in our realme then your selfe whether we respect your nobilitie or calling or fauour with your prince or high liking of the people consequently no man like to haue a greater part or sway in deciding of this great affaire when tyme shall come for that determination then your honour and those that will assist you are likest to follow your fame and fortune And for that it is not cōuenient for your honour to be vnskillfull in a matter which cōcerneth your person the whole realme so much as this doth and finding this conference had by two learned Lawyers to handle the question very pithely and exactly and yet with much modestye and without offence of any and with particuler affection and deuotion to her Maiestie with special care of her safetye I thought not expedient to let it lye vnpublished as also I iudged that no hāds were fitter to receaue the same nor any protectiō more secure or plausible then that of your honour whom God long preserue in all true honour and felicity to the comfort of your Lordships faithfull seruants clyents to the publique benefite of your country from my chamber in Amsterdame this last of December 1593. Your honours most affectionate R. DOLEMAN THE CONTENTS OF THE FIRST PARTE THE preface conteyning the occasion of this treatise vvith the subiect purpose partes therof That succession to gouerment by neernes of bloode is not by Lavv of nature or diuine but only by humane positiue Lawes of euery particuler common wealth and consequently may vppon iust causes be altered by the same Cap. 1. fol. 1. Of the particuler forme of Monarchies kingdomes and the different Lawes wherby they are to be obteyned holden and gouerned in diuers countryes according as ech common wealth hath chosen and established Cap. 2. fol. 15. Of the great reuerence and respect dew to kings and yet how diuers of them haue bine lawfully chastised by their commō wealthes for their misgouerment of the good and prosperous suecesse that god commonly hath giuen to the same and much more to the putting back of an vnworthie pretender Cap. 3. fol. 37. VVherin consisteth principally the lawfulnes of proceeding agaynst Princes which in the former chapter is mentioned what interest Princes haue in their subiects goodes or liues how othes do by nde or may be broken by subiects towardes their Princes and finally the difference betweene a good king a Tyrant Cap. 4. fol. 63. Of the Coronation of Princes and manner of their admitting to their authority and the othes which they do make in the same vnto the common wealth for their good gouerment Cap. 5. fol. 82. VVhat is dew to only succession by birth and what interest or right an heyre apparent hath to the crowne before he is crowned or admitted by the commō wealth and how iustly he may be put back if he haue not the partes requisite Cap. 6. fol. 121. How the next in succession by propinquity of bloode haue oftentymes bin put back by the cōmon

humane and by al reason conscience and custome of al nations christian To this said the temporal lawyer you go further Sir then I had meant to doe or did conceaue of the matter for my meaning only was to shew howe many pretenders ther be to the Inglish crowne at this day how doubtful the pretentions of diuers of the chiefe of them be in respect of the many exclusions stoppes and barres that their aduersaryes or fellow competitors do lay against them and now you do adde further that albeit thes stoppes were taken away and their propinquity in blood were manifest yet for other considerations the course of their next succession by birth may be iustly altered vppon such considerations as you insinuate that the Inglish may haue in the admission of their next king or Queene after her Maiesty that now is which in deede if it be true maketh the matter of succession much more doubtful then I pretended which I confesse I haue not so much studied or thought of for that our common law goeth no further ordinarily then to the next successor in blood to consider whether he be lawfully descended or no therby to giue him the crowne I confesse said the Ciuilian that ordinarily nether your law nor ours doth go any further especially in thos realmes wher the gouerment goeth by succession of blood which I thinke to be the best of al other wayes but yet ther may happen out such extraordinary cases some tymes agaynst this ordinary rule as your common law must needs take also consideratiō of them except it wil be contrary to al other law and reason both diuine and humane as for example if it should fal out that the next in blood should be a natural fool or a madd man if he should be taken by Turkes or Moores in his infancy brought vp in their religion aud would mayntayne the same in your countrey with al his forces and other like vrgent cases wherin it is not probable but that your common law must needs haue further consideration then of the bare propinquity of blood only for that otherwise it should be a very imperfect law that hath not prouided for accidents so weighty and important as thes are for sauing and conseruing of your common wealth At this speach the residew of the company began to smile to see the two lawyers grow into some heate and comparison of their professions But yet for that both their asseuerations did tendc to proue one thing which was the first proposition set downe to wit that the next successor of Ingland must needs be very doubtful they requested them both with very great instance that ech one would be content to proue his assertion a parte to wit the temporal lawyer to shewe that the titles and pretensions of al those ten or eleuen familyes of the Inglish blood royal which remayne at this day are ambiguous and doubtful according to the common lawes of Ingland aud the ciuilian to declare that albeit their titles by successiou were cleare yet that as things stande now in that realme and other countryes neere adioyning ther may be a great doubt which of them shal preuaile This I say was the request of the whole company and the lawyers were cōtent to take it vppon them and according to thes two poynts it was agreed that the whole speach or conference should be deuided into two parts and that the ciuil lawyer should begin first for that it seemed that his assertion being wel declared and proued would giue much light to the other and so he promised to do and to be as brief clere perspicuous as he mighte and to reduce al that he would say to certayne principal heades and chapters therby the better to be vnderstood remembred and so he began in manner and forme following THAT SVCCESSION TO GOVERMENT BY NEERNES OF BLOOD IS NOT by law of nature or diuine but only by humane and positiue lawes of euery particuler common wealth and consequentely may vppon iust causes be altered by the same CAP. I. THE examples before alleaged said the ciuilian lawyer of a madd or furious heyre apparent or of one that were by education a Turke or Moore in religion or by nature depriued of his witt or senses do playnely proue that propinquity of birth or blood alone without other circumstances is not sufficient to be preferred to a crowne for that no reason or law religion or wisdom in the world can admitt such persons to the gouermēt of a cōmon wealth by whom no good but distruction may be expected to the same seing that gouerment was ordeyned for the benefit of the weale publique and not otherwise And albeit some one or two in thes our dayes haue affirmed the contrary and published the same in wryting for the defence flatery or aduauncement of some Prince whom they fauour affirming that euen a foole madd or furious man or otherwise so wicked as he would endeuour to destroy the common welth were to be admitted to the seat royal without further consideration if he be next in blood yet this is so manifestly agaynst al reason and conscience and agaynst the very first ende and purpose of institution of common wealthes and magestrates as it shal not nede to be refuted in this place albeit afterwards ther vvil not vvant place and commodity for the same Hereof it doth ensew that some other condicions also must needs be requisit for comming to gouerment by succession besides the only propinquity or prioryty in blood and that thes condicions must be assigned and limited out by some higher authority then is that of the Prince himselfe who is bounde and limited therby and yet it seemeth euident they are not prescribed by any law of nature or diuine for that then they should be both immutable and the selfe same in al countries as God and nature are one the same to al without chainge wher nothwithstanding we see that thes condicions and circumstances of succeding by birth are diuers or different in different countryes as also they are subiect to changes according to the diuersity of kingdomes realmes people as after shal be shewed more in particuler wherby we are forced to conclude that euery particuler countrey and common wealth hath prescribed thes condicions to it selfe and hath authority to do the same For better profe wherof it is first of al to be supposed that albeit sociability or inclination to liue togeather in company man with man wherof ensueth both city and commō wealth as Aristotle gathereth in his first booke of politiques be of nature and consequently also of God that is author of nature though gouerment in lyke maner and iurisdiction of magestrats which doth follow necessarily vppon this liuing to gether in company be also of nature yet the particuler forme or manner of this or that gouerment in this or that fashion as to haue many gouernors few or one and

thos eyther Kinges Dukes Earles or the like or that they should haue this or that authority more or lesse for longer or shorter tyme or be taken by succession or election themselues and their children or next in blood al thes things I say are not by law ether natural or diuine for then as hath bine said they should be al one in al countryes and nations seing God and nature is one to al but they are ordayned by particuler positiue lawes of euery countrey as afterwards more largely shal be proued But now that sociability in mankind or inclination to liue in company is by nature and consequently ordeyned by God for the common benefit of al is an easy thing to proue seing that al ground of realmes and common wealthes dependeth of this poynt as of ther first principle for that a common wealth is nothing els but the good gouerment of a multitude gathered together to liue in one therfore al olde philosophers law makers and wise men that haue treated of gouerment or common wealthes as Plato in his ten most excellent bookes which he wrot of this matter intituling them of the commou wealth and Marcus Cicero that famous councelor in other six bookes that he writ of the same matter vnder the same title And Aristotle that perhaps excelleth them both in eight bookes which he called his pollitiques al thes I saye do make their entrance to treat of ther common wealth affayres from this first principle to wit that man by nature is sociable and inclined to liue in company wherof do proceede first al priuate houses then villages then townes then cityes then kingdomes common wealthes This ground principle then do they proue by diuers euident reasons as first for that in al nations neuer so wild or barborous we fee by experience that by one way or other they endeuour to liue together ether in cityes townes villages caues woodes tents or other like manner according to the custome of ech countrey which vniuersal instinct could neuer be in al but by impression of nature it selfe Secondly they proue the same by that the vse of speech is giuen to man for this end and purpose for that litle auaylable were this priuiledge of speaking if men should liue alone conuerse with none Thirdly not only Aristotle but Theophrastus also Plutarch and others do confirme the same by the poore estate condition wherin man is borne more infirme then any other creature though by creation he be lord gouernor of al the rest for where as ech other creature is borne in a certayne sort armed and defended in it selfe as the bul with his hornes the bore with his tuske the bear wolfe with their teath the birde with hir fethers agaynst cold with her wynges to flye away the hart hare with their swiftnes and the like only man is borne feble and naked not able to prouide or defende himselfe in many yeares but only by the healp of others which is à token that he is borne to liue in company and to be holpen by others this not only for his necessity and help at his begining whiles he is in this imbecility but also for his more comodious liuing in the rest of his dayes afterwards seing no man of himselfe is sufficient for himselfe he that liueth alone can haue no benefite of others or do any to others wherfore wittely said Aristotle in the second chapter of his first booke of politiques that he which flieth to liue in society is ether Deus aut Bellua a God or a beft for that ether he doth it because he hath no neede of any which is proper to God or els for that he wil do good to none and feeleth not that natural instinct which man hath to liue in conuersation which is a signe rather of a beast then of a man Cicero doth add an other reason for this purpose to wit the vse of certaine principal vertues giuen vnto man but principally iustice frenship which should be vtterly in vaine and to no vtilitye if man should not liue in company of others for seing the office of iustice is to distribut to euery one his owne wher no number is ther no distribution can be vsed as also neyther any act of frenship which yet in the society of mā is so necessary vsual sayeth this excellent man vt nec aqua nec igne nec ipso sole pluribus in locis vtamur quam amicitia that we vse nether water nor fyer nor the sonne it felfe in more places or occasions then frenship And to this effect of vsing frenship loue and charity the one towards the other do christian doctors also and especially S. Augustine in his booke of frenship reduce the institution of this natural instinct of liuing in cōpany which seemeth also to be confirmed by God hym sell in those wordes of Gcnesis Dixit quoque Dominus Dcus non est bonum hominem esse solum facia mus ei adiutorium simile sibi God said it is 〈◊〉 good that man should be alone let vs 〈◊〉 vnto him a help or assistante like vnto him selfe of which wordes is deduced that as 〈◊〉 first society of our first parēts vvas of God 〈◊〉 so great purpose as heere is set downe the 〈◊〉 to be holpen by the other so al other societye in like maner which grow of this first stand vppon the same ground of Gods ordination for the selfe same end of mans vtility And I haue bin the longer in speaking of this natural instinct to society for that it is the first fountaine of al the rest that enseweth in a common wealth as hath bine said for of this come familyes villages townes castles cyties and common wealthes al which Aristotle in his bookes before named doth proue to be of nature for that this first inclinatiō to liue together wherof al thos other things do spring is of nature as hath bin declared Out of this is the second poynt before mentioned deduced to wit that gouerment also superiority iurisdiction of magistrats is likewise of nature for that it followeth of the former and seinge that it is impossible for men to liue together with help and commodity of the one to the other except ther be some magestrat or other to kepe order amōg them without which order ther is nothing els to be hoped for as Iob sayeth but horror and cōfusion as for example wher-soeuer a multitude is gathered together if ther be not some to represse the insolent to assist the impotent reward the vertuous chasten the outragious and minister some kind of iustice and equality vnto the inhabitants ther liuing together would be farr more hurtful thē ther liuing a sunder for that one would consume and deuour the other and so we see that vppon liuing together followeth of necessity some kind of iurisdiction