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A27174 Take heed of both extremes, or, Plain and useful cautions against popery and presbytery by way of dialogue : in two parts / by Luke de Beaulieu. Beaulieu, Luke, 1644 or 5-1723. 1675 (1675) Wing B1578; ESTC R7658 78,624 146

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to the Higher Powers it doth not bid us to be subject to the will of those who are in highest places But two or three specious words serv'd the turn this was chiefly to seduce the Kings own Friends if it were possible Those that had a Loyal Soul here was a bait for them you were fighting for to make the King great and glorious though 't was against his will and for his Authority against his Person and he was on your side in his Political though not in his Personal capacity and so if they lov'd the King they might join with you and no doubt but those goodly pretences deluded then many a well-meaning Soul But then if people were not for the King to be sure they would be for the Lord and upon that account they might and they must join with you for you were fighting the Lords Battels warring for Sion against Babylon this was the grand cheat whereby the Nation was deluded Had the Parliament-Officers gone about and told the people that the King encroacht upon their Priviledges and acted against the Fundamental Laws of this Kingdom the generality of men was not so well read in the ancient Statutes and Charters of this Realm as to know whether it was so or no and so 't is likely they had been very slack in engaging in a doubtful general But you knew well enough that the people would fight for God therefore you made him a party in the case and then called upon them to help the Lord against the Mighty to help to throw down Antichrist and to set up Christ and those that came to your call were rewarded besides the holy Plunder with good words flatteries high and lofty titles they were the Saints the Godly the Chosen the Lambs Followers and the precious Ones and so you made them active in their wickedness by making their deluded Consciences to warrant their accursed doings Though the way was besprinkled with bloud yet that the people might not be deterred from doing Gods work ● Palmer p. ● they were told that God had seen it good to bring Christ into the Kingdom that bloudy way and then who would be afraid of bloud-shedding upon such an account But this hath been sufficiently proved when I spoke of your cruelties and made it appear that the War was Religious and not Civil and that for the good of Souls you may do what you lift as well as the Pope Now I desire only to mention a few more of your juggling tricks and then I shall endeavour to say somewhat in defence of those Authorities I have cited out of your Books Mr. p. ● ● Palmer resolves that grand Query How shall I know that the Parliaments Cause is Gods Cause and those that join with them more Gods people than on the other side in this manner Alas it is the plainest thing in the world look to the words of Christ John 10.5 and 44. My Sheep know my Voice c. Now do but consider which of the new-raised Forces come nearest to this Rule who is it that submits to the Word and Rule of God who set up the work of Reformation who is desirous to preserve the people of God Was not he an excellent Casuist to make your pretences and doings an argument to prove that your War against the King was just Much like him that said it is and hath been the design and practice of Jesus Christ to break all Kingdoms that oppose him 〈…〉 and oppress his Saints As much as to say that God pulled down the King because he opprest Christ and did not favour the Saints by which Rule the best cause is condemned if it be unsuccessful and well-fare the Turk and all the wicked as long as they prosper according to this we have seen before that Providence was your Guid and Captain it led you and did all things for you and so it came to pass that the worst of your doings were charged upon God Jehovah-Jireh pag. 65. The Prentices and Porters were stimulated and stirr'd up by Gods Providence thousands of them to petition the Parliament for speedy redress And Mr. Will. Jenkins in his Conscientious Queries and Submission to the then present Power 1651. useth only the Turkish Argument of good success to prove that the prosperous Rebels were to be obeyed as lawful Superiours and that by charging all that had been done upon God and Providence pag. 2. Whether the stupendious Providences of God manifested among us in the destruction of the late King and his Adherents in so many pitcht Battels and in this Nations universal forsaking of Charles Stuart and the total overthrow of him and his Army whether by these Providences God hath not plainly removed the Government from Charles Stuart and bestowed it upon others as ever he removed and bestowed any Government by any Providence in any Age Whether a refusal to yield Obedience and Subjection to this present Gouernment be not a refusal to acquiesce in the wise and righteous pleasure of God and a flat breach of the fifth Commandment Therefore he saith in his Humble Petition That he looks upon it as his duty to the then Authority to yield all active and cheerful Obedience in the Lord even for conscience sake as though their prosperous wickedness could give them a just title to their Usurpation Another would have it believed that the Saints were victorious Joh. Owen 1659. p. 22. because of Christ being with them and their having a Commission from him to act as they did saying That the Saints and the secret ones shall work destruction and that this feeble Generation shall be as a Lion from the presence of Christ amongst them Christ saith he assigns that to them which is his own proper work let men take heed how they provoke this Lion for then he will not lie down until he eat of the prey and drink of the bloud of the slain As though it had been by the order and power of Christ that the Lion or the wild Beasts had filled all the Nation with bloud and slaughter Then in stead of teaching the people to obey the Precepts of the Gospel Charity Humility Meekness Obedience to the King c. you would have them mind the secret intentions of God and set forward that work which his Providence had begun as you said which was called Generation-work a phrase and a Doctrine still in use amongst you It is the duty of the Saints saith one to observe what the way of God is in the time of their Generation Jer. Burr 1643. p. 2. to see what Name of God is most conspicuous in his administration and accordingly to sanctifie that Name of his Nothing can be more pregnant with delusions and evil consequences than this Afterwards when in the carrying on of the designs in hand the Kingdom was filled with bloud and confusion that the people might not see how they were gull'd you fell to prophecying promising them
London the rest of the Tribes and the godly Party throughout the Land so willingly exhaust themselves that Christ might be set up And pag. 20. Let all England cry that our Bloud our Poverty c. are abundantly repaid in this that there is such a concurrence to set up the Lord Christ upon his Throne to be Lord and Christ over this our Israel And the best of it is that when you had nothing to say for the antiquity of your goodly Discipline and Directory you would make it a Diopetes a thing fallen from Heaven or like the Heathen Legislators receiv'd from God himself that it might be reverenc'd accordingly Ibid. p. 20 The same person told his Auditory Here you have a reverend Assembly of grave and learned Divines who daily wait upon the Angel in the Mount to receive from him the lively Oracles and the pattern of Gods house to present to you But that which you magnified most of all and which was as much your own contrivance as your belov'd Directory was the Covenant the blessed Covenant There is not a Text in Scripture that speaks of the Covenants God hath made with men at any time but it was applied to your own by your learned Preachers Scripture Sacraments none of Gods Ordinances was comparable to it it was so divine and so excellent Proofs are almost needless in a thing so well known yet I 'll bring two or three out of Mr. Case's Sermons on the Covenant upon this Text Th. Case p. 59. Levit. 26.25 A wonderful mercy a high favour may we count it from our God that yet such a sovereign means is left us for our recovery and reconciliation And then saith he pag. 61. How shall we escape if we neglect so great salvation Again pag. 19. There are found amongst us so many profane Ephramitish and Zabulonitish spirits that do contemptuously reject the Covenant of God And pag. 31. It was no small thing that poor Creatures should be married to the living God by the Covenant yea be one with him yea perfect in one What could you have said more except you had quite Deified it Now therefore in this business I see no more difference betwixt you and us than this that our Constitutions our Devices and our Ceremonies are more in number but acknowledged to be of Humane Institution whereas yours be fewer but of a Divine Origine as you say either from Scripture or some latter revelation but let the quality go for the quantity and we are agreed for 't is well known that you were as severe to those that would not conform and obey as ever was the Pope of Rome Pr. Now you put me in mind of it have any such thing as a Pope who pretends to be chosen by Gods Spirit and so acted by it that whatever he saith must be assented to as true he being altogether infallible Don't we rather ●each That God only is free from all errour and ignorance but that no man enjoys that priviledge Pa. No you have no such thing as one only Pope but you have a great many for every Minister of yours pretends to the same Authority and the same Priviledges and I believe that 's the reason you hate him of Rome so much because he will have no fellows but reign all alone I know not how 't is amongst you now but heretofore the Reforming Parliament-men themselves were chosen by the Spirit as Mr. Case told them in a Sermon Tho. Case 1644. p. 9. Surely had not the Spirit of the Lord gone forth to a wonder of wisdom and power in bespeaking the Votes of the people for a major part of men whose spirits were above fears and above flatteries c. If Parliament-men much more Ministers but I need no inference the Spirit was poured upon you all in such a measure that all ranks of people were endued by it with Heroick nay even Angelick Vertues and Abilities or else Mr. Case was mistaken for thus he said Ibid. p. 28 As the Spirit of the Lord came upon Sampson and Jephtah and David so hath it been in our conflicts the Spirit of the Lord hath come upon our Noble General and all our Commanders the Spirit of the Lord hath come upon our Gallants Gentlemen Young men faithful Country-men renowned Citizens so that he that was weak among them is as David and he that was as David hath been as the Angel of the Lord. And you the teaching Elders you pray by the Spirit and you preach by the Spirit wherefore it is I suppose that you call your Sermons the Gospel and Gods Word and if long Prayers and Sermons be a sign of having much of the Spirit any of you may vie it with all the Popes of Rome put together Nay and to make the parallel compleat you pronounce Bulls and Fulminations by the Spirit too Wil Beech Serm. Licenc'd by Mr. Cramford 1645. p. 10. Tell them from the Holy Ghost saith Mr. Beech from the Word of Truth that their destruction shall be terrible it shall be timely it shall be total And 't is more than probable you would have made Canonical Scripture ere now had not the Kings Return somewhat frighted away that Spirit you were so possest withal But in this there is still some difference betwixt our Opinions for with us the Pope hath the greatest part of the Spirit if not all of it whereas your Ministers are all sharers of it Pr. Yet still for ought you have said it doth not appear that we pretend to Infallibility we don't arrogate to our selves the power of interpreting Scripture exclusively to all others and before we have declar'd what the sense of it is we don't call it as you do A Waxen Nose which may be turn'd all manner of ways and never right till we fix it our selves Pa. One thing after another pray we have done with the Spirit which is the cause of Infallibility we shall now come to the expounding of Scripture which is the effect of that cause And to give you your due I must needs say that you have done very much in this and if you will but go on as you have begun you 'll go near to perswade posterity that a body may expound Scripture out of a Scotch Pulpit as well as out of St. Peters Chair and a great deal better for besides the Doctrinal part beyond which Popes could never go Presbyterians expound Prophecies and make Prophecies too Pray hear some of them Jer. Bur. Serm. 1643. p. 7● All the Saints in these days should be full of the Spirit strong in the might of the Lord because Jesus Christ is about to pull down that great Enemy of his that Man of Sin and in his Conquest is said to come with Garments dipt in Bloud Rev. ●9 Do you think any man but he could have seen that this Nation wallowing in Bloud was the fulfilling of that Prophecy Mr. Th. Goodwin who belike had seen the
not exempt from the sting of your poisonous tongues Mr. Case told the Court-Martial Th. Case 1644. p. ● That for many years Robbery Violence Murther and Treason had sate on the Bench and not stood at the Bar c. And your tongues were so inur'd to slander that you could not so much as spare the first Christian Emperours and Bishops who had been the great Propagators of Christian Religion T. Palmer 1644. p. 19. The wicked saith Mr. Palmer and the Popes and Roman Emperours have agreed all along to persecute Gods Saints that hath gone on for above 600 years they have been getting upon the Saints almost all this while and therefore now 't is no more but just with God to bring their time of losing c. Thus you see the conformity between you and us holds still in this particular of slandering our enemies or rather to give you your full due you have out-done all Precedents by far if not Diabolos himself the Father of Lyes Pr. I know not whether your Quotations be true but this I am sure of that there is no men under the Sun so humble as the Presbyterians none acknowledge themselves so vile before God and make such soul-humbling confessions of sin whereas you magnifie your selves as the only people of God you think there is no goodness to be found but only amongst you therefore you exclude all that are not of your Church out of Heaven and so puft up you are with pride that you dare talk of your merits as though you were more than perfect Pa. Of Merits and Perfection another time if you please for the present let us inquire whether you do not value your selves as highly as we do and also shut out of Heaven those that are not of your holy Sect. As for your long confessions of sins I confess that I have sometimes admired how they could be consistent with the good opinion you have of your selves At first I thought that you took a pride in professing much humility and possibly I was not much out for you know you call him the Son of Pride who calls himself Servus Servorum But I remember that heretofore you kept days of humiliation for the sins of others Mr. Coleman in a Sermon to the Parliament after he had told them how that sins may be punished long after their commission T. Coleman p. 14. adds This particular was taken to heart when by an Ordinance you call'd upon the Kingdom to be humbled for the Bloud shed in the Marian persecution if such an Ordinance was reprinted with some additions concerning mixtures in Gods service and violence against Gods servants under the Prelatical Tyranny it might possibly do much good whereby it may seem probable that in your long confessions you mean other mens sins and not your own However it appears by what I have said already that you think your selves the best of men or to speak more properly the holy ones the elect and chosen people you engross to your selves the names of precious Saints and Godly others go under the notion of vile Looking-Glass for Malignants p. 2. ungodly reprobates It grieves the Saints saith Mr. Vicars to see those miserable Malignants to be so godless and graceless so bitingly and bitterly to flout and affront the Lord Christ himself in his holy Members and his most glorious Cause And in his Jehovah-Jireb speaking of Bastwick Burton c. brought out of prison p. 43. he saith Did not the Lord shew himself most strangely in the Mount for the redemption of all these his beloved Isaacs and cause his wrath to lay hold on those Romish Rams who were intangled in the bushes of their Bishoply abuses to Gods children and so by his admirable Providence to make them a prey to his just indignation in stead of his innocent his tenderly affected Isaacs his beloved Lambs I believe the Jews never put so many affronts and indignities upon the accursed posterity of Cham as you did upon those that were not enrol'd among your Saints Jer. Bur. 1643. p. 20. The Lord hath raised up saith Mr. Burroughs the worst the vilest upon the face of the earth and they have possest the houses of many of his Saints the dearly beloved of Gods Soul Is not this to the purpose Nay it seems the blessed Apostles and first Christians were inferiour in Saintship to your most incomparable selves saith Mr. Goodwin to the Parliament Look upon this Isle wherein we live Th. Good 1645. p 51. as it is the richest Ship that hath the most of the precious Jewels of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ in it Let me use the same Expression as I did in publick twenty years agone That if we stood at Gods elbow when he bounded out the Nations and seasons that men should live in we should not have known unless in Christs in what Age or in what place we should have chosen to have lived in in respect of the enjoyments of the Gospel and the Communion of Saints more than in this Kingdom wherein we live Now my loving Friend don't you think that we are also well agreed in this in esteeming our selves highly and condemning others that ar not of our side as impious reprobates fit only for Hell All the difference lies in this that we think well of our selves in that we obey our Church and hold Communion with her and you contrariwise make your excellency to consist in forsaking your Church and endeavouring to destroy it Pr. You shall repent by and by of the great pains you take for nothing mean while I 'll give you leave to talk of what Master such an one and such an one saith and pray can you find by those your Authors you have so ready at your fingers end that we have merits of congruity and merits of condignity and that we can give Pardons and Indulgences if so be we can get money for them Don't we teach that all our righteousness is as a defiled Rag and that our best works are rather sinful than meritorious Pa. It may be so but for all that I can tell you of one thing that is hugely meritorious among you and that is the advancing of the Cause the time was when you exhorted the people to spend all upon so good a work S. Marshal 1644. p. 41. Lay out your strength and hearts and affections for the Lord go on with all your might with all your estates with all your treasure whatever you have let God have it all in his Cause if he need it And pag. 43. Who knows how far the Zeal of any one man may prevail therefore go on in it to the utmost let Offices go let Wife and Children go let Estates go be wholly for the Lord and say What may I do wherein may I be imployed and laid out what is there in my head or heart in my soul or body in my treasury shop or house which may be of any