against Adimantus as part of his owne confession and former obiection and conclude that either Adimantus mistooke the meaning of the law as in deede hee did or that Dauid perfourming the precept of Christ when hee spared his enimie gaue example that others vnder the Lawe shoulde doe the like and so the Law neither waie repugnant to the Gospell as his conclusion imported And if any thinke it much Sainct Augustine should pitch himselfe on other mens wordes as they were apparant truethes hee must remember hee dealt with the Manichees that receiued no Scriptures but such as they listed and therefore to presse them with their owne position was a neerer waie to confounde them than to loade them with Scriptures which they regarded not and that maketh Sainct Augustine giue sometimes not the soundest solution hee coulde but the readiest to stoppe their mouthes with their owne assertions Otherwise Sainct Augustine was plainely resolued that Dauid so much esteemed in Saul the holinesse of his regall inunction euen vnto his death that hee trembled at heart for cutting the lappe of Sauls garment Quaero si non habebat Saul sacramenti sanctitatem quid in eo Dauid venerabatur nam eum propter sacrosanctam vnctionem honorauit viuum vindicauit occisum Et quia vel panniculum ex eius veste praescidit percusso corde trepidauit Ecce Saul non habebat innocentiam tamen habebat sanctitatem non vitae sed vnctionis If Saul had not the holinesse of the sacrament I demand what it was that Dauid reuerenced in him For the sacred and holy vnction of a king hee honoured Saul liuing and reuenged his death on him that saide hee slue him And because himselfe had cut but the lap of Saules coate hee was strooken and trembled at heart for the fact Behold Saul was not innocent yet had hee the holinesse not of life but of his annointing Phi. If Dauid might not lawfully haue slaine Saul Dauid might not beare armes against Saul for the putting himselfe in armes proueth hee was either lawfull king or a manifest rebel against the king which I thinke you will not affirme Theo. Dauid was neither king as yet when hee did this nor rebell against the king Hee put him-selfe in armes not to seeke the kingdome nor to subdue the vsurper as you vainly suppose hee fledde to saue his life as euery subiect may by your doctrine doinges yea though life be not sought Phi. Howe coulde Dauid bee annointed if Saul were not first deposed Theoph. You misconster Samuels wordes For by them the Scepter was not taken out of Saules handes but his seede reiected from inheriting the kingdome Philand Nay Samuel sayde vnto him God hath cast thee awaie from being king And againe The Lord hath rent the kingdome of Israel from thee this day hath giuen it to thy neighbor What can this import but he was personallie deposed from the gouernment Theophi The present possession of the kingdome was not denyed him but the inheritaunce of it to him and his issue By a king Samuel ment not one that shoulde gouerne during his life for so did the Iudges of Israel before Saul that were no kinges but one that should haue the kingdome to him and his after him by waye of inheritaunce For that was it which the children of Israel respected when they required a King which was not a Gouernour for the time but a setled succession in the regiment as other Nations had This was it that Samuell saide vnto Saul when he first reproued him Thou hast doone foolishly thou hast not kept the commaundement of the Lord for haddest thou kept it the Lord had now established thy kingdom vpon Israell for euer But now thy kingdom shal not continue This was it that Samuel ment the seconde time when he more sharpely rebuked Sauls disobedience Because thou hast cast awaye the worde of the Lord therefore hath he cast away thee from being king And againe The Lord hath rent the kingdome of Israel from thee this daie and hath giuen it to thy neighbour not meaning his person shoulde bee degraded but the kingdom remoued both from his line and from his tribe Phi. This is your priuate sense for the wordes sound that he should not bee king ouer Israell Theo. Sainct Augustine him-selfe expoundeth these verie wordes as I do Iste cui dicitur spernit te Dominus ne sis Rex super Israel dirupit Dominus Regnum ab Israel de manu tua hodie quadraginta annos regnauit super Israell tanto scilicet spacio temporis quanto ipse Dauid audiuit hoc primo tempore regni sui vt intelligamus ideo dictum quia nullus de stirpe eius fuerat regnaturus Saul to whome it was sayde the Lorde will cast thee away that thou shalt not bee king ouer Israell and the Lorde hath rent the kingdome from Israell out of thine hand this daie euen hee raigned fourtie yeares as long as Dauid him-selfe and this hee hearde in the verie beginning of his raigne that wee shoulde vnderstand it therefore to be spoken because none of his stocke should raigne after him And hadde not Sainct Augustine goone cleare with vs the circumstaunces of the Scriptures doe thus lymitte the wordes of Samuel For Dauid was then a verie young boie or as the text sayeth a little one keeping sheepe when hee was annointed hauing neither age experience nor strength fit for the present vndertaking of the kingdome Next Dauid neither claymed nor pretended any right to the Crowne during Saules life but serued and obeyed Saul as his liege Lorde and Master whiles hee lyued and so confessed him to bee Thirdly Saul him-selfe neuer obiected this vnto Dauid that he sought the kingdome from him but from his sonnes for so he said to Ionathan As long as the sonne of Ishai liueth vpon the earth thou shalt not be established nor thy kingdō And the priests that were charged with treason for helping Dauid did not answere as you do that Saul was an vsurper Dauid the right king but Who is so faithful among all thy seruants as Dauid goeth at thy commandement witnessing for Dauid that he behaued himselfe as a faithfull subiect vnto Saul not as a claimer of the crown from Saul Thus al the Tribes of Israel conceiued constred the wordes of Samuel For when they came to make Dauid king after Sauls death they said In time past when Saul was our king thou leddest Israel in out the Lorde saide vnto thee thou shalt feed my people Israel and thou shalt be captaine ouer my people Israel So came all the elders of Israel and annoynted Dauid king ouer Israel according to the word of the Lord by the hand of Samuel The text it self alleadgeth Gods own words Samuels act not for the present possession but for the rightfull succession of the crowne that after Sauls death
your holy father hath taught kings Emperours to waite on his trencher to hold his stirrop and kisse his feete Phi. We would haue Princes to serue that is to obey the church so S. Paul willeth them Obey your rulers be subiect to them for they watch as being to giue accōpt for your souls This is spoken as well to Princes as to priuate men Theo. You leape from one thing to an other neuer resolue certainly any thing Can you shew where S. Paul or Esaie or any other Prophet or Apostle teacheth Princes to be the Popes Bedels Bailifs to execute his pleasure The questiō betwixt vs is not whether princes as wel as others must be guided directed by religious godly Pastours the way to eternall life which is S. Pauls meaning in this place but whether the Pope cloathing himselfe with the name of the church may command the swords of Princes if he like not their doings take their kingdoms frō thē Do the places which you bring proue this that I mention say yea or no. Phi. Not expressely but only because the Pope is Christs Uicar on earth head of the church Theo. Will you neuer vnderstand how weake your proofes how wide they be from your intention First you stil presume we stil deny that your holy father is the head of the church and Christs Uicar general vpon the face of the earth On that false foūdatiō what God promiseth to the church in respect of her head which is Christ you closely conuey to the Bishop of Rome as heire apparant to that honor and excellency which Christ hath in his church a friuolous but a blasphemous imagination Next what submission obedience God requireth at al mens euen at Princes hands for the reuerencing of his word obseruing of his law that you wittingly confound with the temporall iurisdiction dominion that the church of Rome claimeth ouer Princes to command their scepters if they resist to depose their persons which is a wicked wilfull error If you loue truth deale plainly let this cunning go Phi. I seeke for truth let truth preuaile Theo. Would God you were so minded Phi. I am Theo. That shall wee see by your proceeding Phi. What say you by the wordes of S. Paul Obey your rulers Theo I say the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth leaders as well as rulers in this place standeth rather for leaders than rulers because S. Paul in this very chap. vsing the same worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Remember your leaders addeth Beholding the end of their conuersation imitate their faith that is followe their steppes If wee must marke them and imitate them then surely must they be leaders to direct vs and not rulers to master vs. Secondly by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whether it be leaders or rulers are ment not the Pope and his Cardinals but all that be christian and godly Preachers this is S. Pauls own construction Remember your leaders which haue spoken to you the word of God We be not bound to their fansies or pleasures but only to the word of truth proceeding from their mouthes Lastly obedience here required is no corporal subiection to their persons but an inward liking and imbracing of their doctrine For as touching their persons whom it pleaseth you to call rulers in this place S. Paul maketh seruāts in other places We preach not our selues saith he but Christ Iesus to be the Lord our selues your seruants And againe Not that we haue dominion or rule ouer your faith but wee are helpers of your ioy And that was our Sauiours charge to them al. Kings of nations rule with you it shal not be so but whosoeuer wil be chiefe among you shal be the seruant of all Their function is as you see TO SERVE not to rule their brethren I meane to feede not to master the flock of Christ. Phi. The Apostle saith God hath placed thē To rule the Church Attend to your self to your whole flock ouer which the holy Ghost hath put you to rule the church Theo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is not To rule the church but to feed the church 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 be no rulers but Sheepheards Are you not very desirous of rule when you thus wrest the Scriptures to make your selues rulers Phi. S. Hieroms translation hath Regere ecclesiam to rule the church That we follow The. You follow the old corrupt translatiō where it maketh for you and where you list you leaue it S. Hierom vpon the first chapter to Tite saith In quo posuit vos spiritus sanctus Episcopos pascere ecclesiam Dei not regere And yet regere is to lead guide with counsel as wel as to rule or force with authoritie as you may perceiue by dirigere the compound which is to direct any man what way he shal go what things he shal do what words he shal speake yet these be no rulers nor haue any iudiciall power ouer the parties so directed The english word that you abuse hath the same sense In many matters men are ruled by their friends in sicknes they are ruled by their Physition in traueling they bee ruled by their guides and yet neither friends Physitions nor guides haue any iurisdiction ouer the persons that are ruled by them Why then do you trouble the world with such ambiguities perplexities of words why speake you not distinctly why conclude you not directly The Bishops of Ephesus were set by the holy Ghost to attend their flock feede the church If by this you collect that they were placed by God to teach instruct the faithful how to walke in his waies that we graunt that we know to be most true so long as they do their message from God sincerely without adding altering or diminishing but if by colour of those wordes to rule the church you seeke to giue the Pope iudiciall power to compell and punish Princes as a Superiour iudge which is the point we striue for see what shamefull violence you offerre the Scriptures First you falsifie the Text by putting ruling for feeding the church Next you dawe the word ruling from instructing and exhorting which is Apostolike to commaunding and forcing which our Sauiour forbiddeth all his Disciples thirdly that which was spoken to the Elders of Ephesus and is common to all Pastours you present the Bishop of Rome with as his peculiar charge though hee neither feede nor leade the flocke And so where S. Paul ment the Bishops of Ephesus were set to teach and instruct their brethren you conclude the Pope must ouer-rule Princes and take their crownes from them if they yeelde not the sooner Phi. You mistake me I do not bring these places to that end Theo. To that end you should bring them for that is the doubt betwixt vs that was my demaund I required you to shewe Scripture
Theo. S. Paul expressely writeth of the Prince that He beareth the sword not without cause and is Gods minister to reuenge him that doth euil And our Sauiour seuerely forbiddeth Peter the rest of his Apostles to medle with the sword All that take the sword shall perish by the sworde and to them all You know that kinges of Nations raigne ouer theÌ„ and they that be great exercise authoritie with you it shall not be so The sword is but the signe of publike and Princely power and where the thing is not lawfull the signe is vnlawfull Since then the Lord interdicteth his Apostles and messengers all princely power it is euident the sword which is but a signe thereof is likewise interdicted them Thus much Bernard sticketh not to tell Pope Eugenius to his face It is the Lordes voice in the Gospell Kinges of Nations are Lordes ouer them and they that haue power on them are called gracious and the Lord inferreth you shall not be so It is a cleare case the Apostles are forbidden dominion Go thou then saith Bernard to the Pope and vsurpe if thou dare either an Apostleship if thou be a Prince or dominion if thou be Apostolik Thou art expressely forbidden one of them If thou wilt haue both thou shalt loose both The paterne of an Apostle is this dominion is interdicted seruice is inioyned Gird thy selfe with thy sworde the sworde of the spirit which is the word of God And this Pope Nicholas fairely confesseth The church of God hath no sword but the spirituall wherewith she quickeneth she killeth not Your owne law saith It is easily proued of Bishops and other clergimen whatsoeuer that they may not either by their owne authoritie or by the authoritie of the Bishop of Rome take weapon in hand exercise the materiall sworde addeth this reason For euery man besides him and his authoritie which hath lawfull power and which as the Apostle saith beareth the sworde not without cause to whom euerie soule ought to bee subiect euery man I say that without this authoritie taketh the sword shall perish with the sword He that beareth the sword may lawfully put malefactors to death and wage warre with his enimies when neede so requireth which Bishops may not doe The weapons of our warfare are not carnall saith S. Paul Quid Episcopis cum bello What haue Bishops to do with batle saith Athanasius Ambrose Pugnare non debeo I ought not to fight If they may not fight much lesse kil if they may do neither they can not beare the sword which is appointed by God receiued of men to doe both The words of our Sauior are cleare with vs for the negatiue My kingdom saith he is not of this world If then your Priests Prelats Popes wil be the seruants of Christ they must chaleÌ„ge no worldly kingdom as froÌ„ him or in his name The seruant is not aboue his master If the master with his own mouth haue denied it the seruaÌ„ts may not affirm it or vsurp it The souldiers of Christ must not intangle them-selues with secular affaires much lesse make themselues Lords and iudges of earthly matters which office properly belongeth to the sworde and must be sustained of all those that beare the sword The Popes themselues before their power and pride grew so great were of this opinion with vs. When the truth which is Christ was once come after that saith Pope Nicolas neither did the Emperour take vppon him the Bishops right nor the Bishop vsurpe the Emperours name because the same mediatour of God and man the man Christ Iesus distinguisheth the offices of ech power with proper actions and different dignities to this end that the Bishop which is a souldier vnto God shoulde not intangle and snare himselfe with wordly affaires and againe the Prince which is occupied in earthly matters should not be Ruler of diuine things The very same text word for word your Decrees make Cyprian write to Iulian the Emperour if those be Cyprians wordes and not rather an impudent forgerie in his name For how could Cyprian that died vnder Valerian 260. after Christ write to Iulian that began his raigne 360. after Christ But such proppes are fittest to bolster vp your kingdom of darkenesse and error Sure it is which the wordes of our Sauiour apparantly proue that all the Disciples and Apostles of Christ are straitly charged not to medle with princely Scepters and swordes and therefore out of all question only Princes beare the sworde within their owne Realmes and dominions for so much as that honour and power is expressely prohibited and interdicted by the Lord himselfe to all Preachers and Bishops Phi. This wee woulde haue graunted you with halfe these wordes Theo. And this wee woulde haue depende not on your grant which is fickle but on such proofes as we might make iust accouÌ„t of Phi. How then Theo. As the first is apparant that onely Princes haue the sword committed to their charge by Gods appointmeÌ„t so the next is as euident that the sword I meane the publike authoritie of Magistrats in Christian common-wealthes hath been may be and should be vsed for the receiuing establishing and deâ—ending of that which is good and prohibiting abolishing and punishing of that which is euill in all spirituall and ecclesiasticall thinges and causes as well as in temporall which the sacred Scriptures the auncient Fathers the Church Stories the lawes and examples of al ages and countries do sufficiently proue as you saw before Phi. This is not it that we stand on Theo. This is that we affirme stand you on what you lift Phi. If this be granted what will you conclude Theo. If this be proued you shall see what we conclude If it bee not shew where the defect is Phi. That onely Princes beare the sword within their own realms which may be and should bee vsed for the receiuing establishing and defending of the faith Cannons of the church all thinges incident or pertinent to the same and for prohibiting and punishing whatsoeuer is repugnant to either in this we finde no defect Let vs therefore see what you will infer The. First then the words of our oth that Her Highnes is the only gouernor of this realm bearing the sword as wel in al spiritual or ecclesiastical things causes as teÌ„poral be not only tolerable resonable but such by your own coÌ„fessioÌ„ as we may truly defend you can not iustly confute Next the absurdities which you bring against vs as if we deriued the spirituall power of preaching baptizing binding loosing imposing handes and offering prayers to God from the Princes Soueraigne right and title which we doe not all these absurdities I say bee mere follies grounded vpon the carelesse mistaking if not spitefull peruerting of our wordes Thirdly your defacing and imâ—â—ouing the Princes sworde and aduauncing and defending against
no tumults at home no despites abroade able to withdrawe the Princes hart from liking and louing the trueth but the godly reioyce to see so perfect a mirrour of faith and deuotion in a Christian Queene that shee rather chooseth to suffer your wrongs and abide your reproches with patience than to steppe one foote from that Lord which hath graciously blessed and mightily preserued her person Scepter and people from the iawes of his and her enemies Phil. And where no Iewe no Turke no Pagan can by the law of God nature or nations he forced from the manner and perswasion of his owne Sect and seruice to any other which by promise or profession he or his progenitors neuer receiued onely we that neither in our owne persons nor in our forefathers euer gaue consent to any other faith or worship of God but haue in precise termes by protestation and promise bounde our selues in Baptisme to the religion fayth and seruice Catholique alone are against diuine and humane Lawes and against the Protestants owne doctrine in other nations not onely bereaued of our Christian dew in this behalfe but are forced by manifold co-actions to these rites which we neuer knew nor gaue our consent vnto Theo. Fewe men without your cunning could huddle so many so manifest vntruthes in one sentence No Iew no Turke say you may be forced from his religion If that were so what maketh it for your defence which chalenge both the names and roomes of Christian men and are in respect thereof for iust cause required to performe that in deede which you pretend in woorde and by moderate correction driuen to keepe the Christian faith which in Baptisme you professed For heretikes of al sects and sortes may be compelled to followe truth though infidels might not and so your inference fayleth when you say no law forceth Iewes or Pagans from their perswasion therefore not Christians nay rather if we graunt Iewes and Turkes excusable for these two reasons lacke of knowledge and want of promise certainely Papists being neither void of the first nor free from the last may yea must bee compelled of Christian magistrates for dread of punishment tempered with good instruction to forsake their heresies and forbeare their idolatries wherewith Christ is dishonoured and his trueth defaced As the ioynts of your argument bee loose so bee the parts vntrue For king Darius seeing Daniel strangely deliuered from the Lions denne made this decree that all people nations and languages in the worlde should reuerence and feare the God of Daniel Likewise the king of Niniueth at the first denouncing of Gods wrath by Ionas immediatly with the consent of his Counsel caused this proclamation to be made through the Citie that man and beast shoulde put on sackcloth and cry mightily to God and euery man turne from his euill way Lo Sir two kings precisely commaunding their subiects and therefore readie to punish the refusers without delay to worship a strange and vnknowen God albeit the true God whome neither they nor their forefathers made promise to serue and yet I thinke you will not say they brake the Law of God nature or nations in so doing S. Austen will assure you that the King of Niniueh did God good seruice by compelling the whole Citie to please God A thirde instance for this matter is the calling of Paul first as a Iew and so within the limits of your assertion then strooken with blindnes amased with terror from heauen and therefore compelled to Christianitie by corporal violence y touched Paul neerer than impouerishments or imprisonments wherewith you find your selues greeued Behold saith that learned father in Paul Christ first compelling afterward teaching first striking then comforting and hee that entred into the Gospel constrained with bodyly punishment laboured more than all those that were called only by mouth I might refel your idle florish by the later examples of Polonia Russia Lithuania forced at the commaundement of their rulers to forsake their auncient Idoles and receiue baptisme By the long and sharpe warres which diuers good Princes maintained of purpose to compell the Saxons and Vandales to the faith By the sore vexations and afflictions of the Iewes in euery Christian common wealth Al which both old and new first last serue to conuince that Pagans Iewes haue bene forced by rigor of lawes and other meanes to yeeld to the truth without any former promise or farther knowledge which you stifly deny but as I said this is not our question You are no Iewes no Pagans but in shew Catholiques in deed heretikes you were baptized you chalēge an interest in the Church Sacraments by reason of this your first promise and next your outward profession of Christes name you stand in duetie bound and of right may be compelled to serue God not as your owne fansies perswade you nor as the Church of Rome leadeth you but according to the prescript of his word and that tenor of faith which the Prophets and Apostles did teach Phi. We bound our selues in precise termes by protestation in Baptisme to the religion fayth and seruice Catholique alone other faith and worship of God wee neuer consented vnto neither in our owne persons nor in our forefathers Theo. This is your common charme wherewith you bewitch many simple soules bearing them in hand that in Baptisme they vowed to professe your Italian religion which God knoweth is nothing so For in whose name were you baptized Philander In Pius the fift or Gregorie the thirteenth I thinke you were not I knowe you should not no not in Peters or Pauls but in Christes alone Then stande you bound by baptisme to yeelde faith and obedience to no person or place but onely to Christ the first author and ordayner of this sacrament Preach ye the Gospel saith Christ He that beleeueth and is baptized shal be saued What els must you preach what els must they beleeue that will be baptized but the Gospel ergo the preacher and the beleeuer that is the baptiser and the baptised are bound precisely to the Gospel All yee saith Paul that are baptised into Christ haue put on Christ and are the sonnes of God by faith in Christ Iesus hauing one Lord one faith one Baptisme Perceiue you not that in baptisme which no Protestation of yours can frustrate the beleeuers do put on Christ their Lorde not his pretended vicar and are made the sonnes of God not the vassals of Rome by faith which dependeth neither on man nor Angell but directly belongeth to God and his word If thou beleeue with al thine heart sayth Philip to the conuerted Eimuch thou mayest be baptized Now fayth commeth of hearing and that hearing of the worde of God as Paul witnesseth So that when you were Christned you made promise to beleeue nothing saue the word of God whereby faith is engendred and nourished My sheepe heare my voyce
faire king of France also did before him put the Pope to the worse Phi. What did he Theo. He not only contemned the Popes Buls curses but clapt his Legat by the heels sequestred himselfe his whole realm from his obedience at length caught the Popes own person kept him in prison til he died Phi. Durst he be so bold with his holines Theo. How bold the king of France was a frier as you bee shal tel you Bonifacius the 8. minding to send an armie to Hierusalem hoping to get Philip of France to furder the matter sent the Bishop of Apamea to the king who when he perceiued he could do no good began to threaten king Philip that he should be depriued of his crown if he did not satisfie the Popes request was therfore by the commādement of the king cast in prison Which done Bonifacius a mā aboue measure arrogāt pretending that Philip had violated the law of natiōs would needs be reuēged sending the Archdeacon of Narbon into Frāce forbiddeth Philip to take any more of the church reuenues wheras before the king that Bonifacius could suffer had one yeares fruit of euery vacāt church which we cal the kings due farther he denoūceth that the crown of Frāce is deuolued to the church of Rome by Philips cōtumacy adding that if Philip refused this he would pronoūce both him those that fauored him heretikes moreouer he appointed the bishops certain Abbats with the diuines Canonists a day to appeare before him at Rome withal declareth the charters grāts bestowed on the Frēch by the bishop of Rome to be void This message done by the Archdeacō with pride enough Philip set the Bishop which was kept in ward for his lewd wordes at libertie and charged him with speede to depart the Realme the next spring the Prince gathered an assembly at Paris rehearsing the iniuries that he had receiued at Bonifacius hands asked first the Bishops of whō they held their lands reuenewes then turning himselfe to the Nobles you my Lords saith he whom do you take for your king ruler both answering without staie that they helde inioyed all those things by his Princely lawes but saith the king Bonifacius so dealeth as if you the whole Realme of Fraunce were subiect to his See For the Empire of the Almanes which he thrise denied Albert hath he now giuen him and also the kingdom of Fraunce But we thanking you for your fidelitie good will trusting to your helpe doe promise to defende the libertie of our Lande The Councell risen the king by open Proclamation forbad all men to carrie gold siluer or any other thing out of his Realme a paine set for the breakers of this Edict besides watch ward was appointed at euery passage port to apprehend those that came in or went out of his Countrie And not long after a second Councell of Bishops and Nobles were assembled at Paris where they discussed Bonifacius claime to the kingdom of Fraunce the Fathers affirming that Bonifacius was vnworthie to be Bishop for that he was an homicide and an heretike whereof they had witnesses present Therefore with one consent they concluded that Bonifacius ought not to be obeyed vnlesse he first cleared himselfe of that he was charged with After this king Philip taking the pride of Bonifacius in very ill part sent some to intimate his appeale against the iniuries of Bonifacius who belike meaning to gratifie the king caught the Pope in his fathers house at Anagnia whēce the proud Prelate was led to Rome cast in prison where within foure twentie daies he ended his life either by violence or else for griefe of hart Thus died Bonifacius like a dogge that went about to strike a terrour into Emperors Kings Princes Countries Commonwealthes rather than any religion which assaied to giue kingdoms take them away to aduance men and pull them downe at his pleasure Wherefore it was truely saide of him he entered like a Foxe craftily liued like a Lion furiously died like a dogge shamefully Phi. This is but one mans iudgement Theo. Yet a man of your owne side and if our English Monkes do not deceiue vs it was the prophesie of Caelestinus his predecessor who sayd to him Thou hast entered like a Foxe thou wilt raigne like a Lion shalt die like a dogge but the truth of the storie is it that I seeke for and that in effect a few circumstances altered is confessed by the best of your writers and this they adde which I would haue you marke that the king not only withdrew his obedience from the Pope but also restrayned his subiectes from sending or going to Rome So Sabellicus Philip offended with Bonifacius by open Edict forbad all French men to go to Rome or to send any mony thither So Platina The king meaning in part to reuēge the wrōgs which the Pope had done him made a law that none of his Realme should go to Rome or send mony thither So Paulus AEmylius The Bishops and prelats of France were commaunded by Bonifacius to appeare at Rome by a certaine day The king suffered no man to depart out of Fraunce which you thinke much her Maiestie should at this present in a far better cause commaund within her dominions Phi. One Swallow maketh no summer Theo. One such Sommer is able to mar the Popes haruest but herein the king of France is not alone the kings of England haue done the like Phi. Which of them Theo. I could easily name them but I need not The ancient Lawes Liberties of this Realm permit no man to go out of this land nor appeale to Rome without the kings consent Phi. Uery ancient I promise you those lawes were first made by king Henrie the 8. about fiftie yeares since Is not that great antiquitie Theo. The lawes that I speake of are 500 yeares old and were in full force vnder William Rufus and Henrie the 1. the Sonnes of William the Conquerer Phi. Did they restraine their subiectes from going to Rome Theo. Whether they did or no iudge you When Anselmus Archbishop of Canterbury asked leaue of William Rufus to go to Rome the king replied that no Archbishop nor Bishop of his realm should be subiect to the Pope or court of Rome especially since hee had all those liberties in his kingdom which the Emperour had in the Empire And for this cause was Anselmus conuented by the king as an offendour against the State And to this accusation did the most of the Bishops except the Bishop of Rochester giue their consentes And for that he ventered ouer the Seas to Rome without leaue All his goods cattels were seased to the kings vse all his actes proceedings in the Church of England reuersed himselfe constrained to liue in banishmēt during the life of king
and Bishops that were called by the king for this purpose without conuiction or confession of his gaue iudgement against him alleaging and protesting the priuilege of himselfe his church The Archbishop driuen to this extremity and forsaken of al the rest of the Bishops hoysed the crosse which he held in his hand aloft marched away frō the kings court in the eyes of thē al the next night stale frō the place gate him ouer to Flaūders so to the Pope He brake the oth which he took for the keeping of the foresaid lawes liberties of the crown he claimed a freedom for theeues murderers y◠they should not be subiect to the princes power he refused the kings court appealed to the pope for a matter of debt lest he shuld rēder an accoūt of his tēporal office whiles he was Chācelor which of these three points cā you now with learning or honestie defend Phi. The liberty of the holy Church is a iust good quarell for a man to die in Theo. If you meane thereby an impunitie for mutherers such like offendors then is it a most wicked and irreligious part for a Bishop to open his mouth for such libertie much more to resist his Prince for that quarrell Phi. His quarrel was better than so Theo. Neubrigensis a man of that age and one that honored the person and praised the zeale of Th. Becket reporteth thus of the quarell betweene the king him The king saith he was aduertised by his Iudges that many crimes were committed by clergie mē against the lawes of his Realm as thefts roberies murders In so much that in his audiēce it was they say declared that more than an hundred murders were done in England by clergie men in the time of his raigne Wherefore the king very much kindled in a vehement spirit made lawes against malefactors of the clergie which hee thought to make the stronger by the cōsent of the Bishops Calling therefore the Bishoppes togither hee so plied them what with faire meanes what with foule that they al saue one thought it best to yeeld and obey the kings will and set their seales to those new statutes I say all saue one for the Archbishop of Canterburie would not bow but stood immoueable Whereupon the king began to be greatly offended with him and seeking all occasions to resist him called him to account for those things which he had done before as Chauncellour of the Realme Now must you shewe that by Gods lawes theeues and homicides if they be clerks may not be punished by the princes sword or if you dare not plead that in these dayes for very shame then must you grant that your Canterbury saint resisting his Prince where he should not was an Archrebell against God and the Magistrate one of these twaine you must needes choose Phi. We shal digresse too far if we discusse these things in this place Theo. Your stomake I see doth not serue you at this present wee shall haue some other oportunitie to debate the same in the meane time learne what lawes king Hērie the 2. enacted executed in spite of your holy father his deuout chaplin The king at the returne of his Legates perceiuing his request for the confirmation of his ancient liberties to be repelled by the Pope not a little offended therewith wrote letters to all his Shirifes Lieutenants in England on this wise I command you that if any clergie man or lay men in your coūtie appeale to the court of Rome you attach him hold him in fast ward till our pleasure be known And to his Iudges in this sort If any man be foūd to bring letters or mandate from the Pope or from Thomas the Archbishop interdicting the Realme of England let him be taken and kept in prison till I send word what shal be done with him The four that wrate the life extol the facts of Th. Becket ad to this law Let him be streightway apprehended for a traitor execution done vpon him Also let no clerk monk canon or other religious person go ouer the Seas without letters of pasport frō vs of our officer if any venture otherwise let him be taken cast into prison Let no man appeale to the Pope or to Th. the Archbishop neither let any suite surcease at their cōmandement If any Bishop Abbot Clerk or lay man shal obserue their sentence interdicting our Land presently let him bee banished the Realme and all his kindred with him and their goods and landes confiscated Let the Bishops of London and Norwich bee summoned to appeare before our Iustices and there to answere for interdicting the Land and excommunicating the person of Earle Hugh contrarie to the Statutes of our Realm Thus far the valiant worthie Prince went in defending his Lawes liberties against the Bishop of Rome how far hee would haue gone but that the time was not yet come when God would deliuer his Church from the yoke of Antichrist appeareth by an Epistle of his written to the Archbishop of Cullain in these wordes I haue long desired to finde a iust occasion to depart from Pope Alexander and his persidious cardinals which presume to maintaine my traytour Thomas of Canterbury against me whereupon by the aduise of my Barons cleargie I meane to send the Archbishop of Yorke the bishop of London the Archdeacon of Poictiers c. to Rome which shall publikely denounce plainly propose this on my behalfe and all the Dominions I haue to Pope Alexander and his cardinals that they maintaine my traytour no longer but rid me of him that I with the aduise of my cleargie may set an other in the church of Canterburie They shall also require them to frustrate all that Becket had done and exact an oth of the Pope that he and his successors as much as in them lieth shall keepe and conserue inuiolable to me and all mine for euer the Royal customs of king Henrie my grandfather If they refuse any of these my demands neither I nor my Barons nor my clergie will yeeld them any kinde of obedience any longer yea rather we will openly impugne the Pope and all his and whosoeuer in my Lande shal be founde hereafter to sticke to the Pope shal be banished my Realme Phi. The king made amends for all when the Archbishop was slaine renoūcing the liberties which he striued for so long and honoring him as a Martyr whom before he pursued as a traitor Theo. The manifold deuises practises of the late Bishops of Rome God so punishing the dulnesse and discorde of Princes neglecting his truth and enuying one an other haue weakened and wearied very many both kings and Emperours partly with a false perswasion of religion partly with a number of fayned miracles but chiefly by drawing their subiectes from them and setting other nations vpon them yea by stirring and arming their owne
and other places at this day do wee not indure all the tormentes you can deuise because wee will not beleeue what temporall Lordes and Masters list Your owne conscience knoweth it is true that wee saie Why then doe you charge vs with this wicked assertion from the which wee bee farther off than you For you holde opinion of Popes that they cannot erre we do not of Princes Why do you father your owne fansies vppon vs Why d ee you purposely peruert the question heaping absurdities and alleaging authorities against that which we do not defend Phi. The oth which you take your selues and exact of others induceth vs thus to thinke of you For there you make Princes the onely supreme Gouernours of all persons in all causes as well spirituall as temporall vtterly renouncing all forraine iurisdictions superiorities and authorities Uppon which wordes marke what an horrible confusion of all faith and Religion insueth If Princes bee the onely Gouernours in Ecclesiasticall matters then in vaine did the holy Ghost appoint Pastours and Bishops to gouern the Church If they bee supreme then are they superiour to Christ himselfe and in effect Christes Masters If in all thinges and causes spirituall then they may prescribe to the priestes and Bishops what to preach which way to worship and serue God how in what forme to minister the Sacramentes and generally howe men shall be gouerned in soule If all forraine iurisdiction must bee renounced then Christ his Apostles because they were are forreners haue no iurisdiction nor authoritie ouer England A thowsand other absurdities are consequent to this oth which anon you shall heare Theo. Wake you or dreame you Philander that in matters of no lesse weight than your duetie to God and the Prince you fall to these childish and pelting sophismes What kinde of concluding call you this Princes onely beare the sword to commaund and punish ergo Bishops may not teach and exhort Princes be not subiect to the Pope ergo superiours to Christ. They may by their lawes establish those thinges that Christ hath commaunded ergo they may change both Scriptures and Sacramentes No forrainer at this day hath any iurisdiction ouer this Land ergo Christ and his Apostles fifteene hundred yeeres ago might not preach the Gospel Phi. We make no such fond reasons Theo. The former propositions are the true contens of the oth which wee take the later are those very absurdities which you infer vpon vs for taking that oth Phi. You would slip from your words which wee knowe to your meaning which we know not but that you shal not We grouÌ„ded our absurdities vpoÌ„ the words of your oth For if princes be supreme gouernors in al spiritual things causes ergo they be supreme iudges of faith deciders of controuersies interpreters of scriptures deuisers of ceremonies appointers of sacrameÌ„ts what not The. You might euen as well haue coÌ„cluded princes be supreme gouernors in al teÌ„poral things causes ergo they be supreme guiders of graÌ„mer moderators of Logik directors of Rhetorik appointers of Musike prescribers of Medicines resoluers of al doubtes iudges of al matters incident any way to reason art or actioÌ„ If this be leud irreuereÌ„t iesting yours is no better Ph. I promise you we iest not The. The more shame for you if you be in earnest to conclude so loosely Phi. Do you make princes supreme gouernors of al spiritual things Theo. You reason as if we did but our words since you wil needes rest vpon wordes are not so Phi. What are they then The. We coÌ„fesse them to be supreme gouernors of their Realms DominioÌ„s Phi. And that in al spriritual things causes The. Not of al spiritual things causes Ph. What differeÌ„ce between those two speeches Theo. Iust as much as excludeth your wrangling Wee make them not gouernors of the things themselues but of all their subiectes which I trust you dare not withstand Phi. I grant they be gouernors of their subiects but not in Ecclesiasticall things or causes They must leaue those matters for Bishops whoÌ„ Christ hath appointed to be yâ— rulers of his church And therfore your oth yeelding that power to princes which is proper to Bishops is repugnant to the lawes of God the church nature Yea it is an euideÌ„t error reproueable by al humane diuine learning that the souerainty or supremacy in causes Ecclesiasticall is by nature or by christian lawes implied in the right title of a temporal king or that it euer was due or can be due to any temporall gouernor heathen or christiaÌ„ in the world And if you will but giue eare you shal heare what a number of absurdities we wil fasten vpon you The. This oth is a great eye sore with you and I remember I promised to discusse the same in this chapter I will therefore first examine the chiefe parts of it and after you shall obiect against it what you can Where we professe that her Highnes is the onely gouernor of this Realme the word gouernor doth seuer the magistrate from the minister sheweth a manifest differeÌ„ce between their office For Bishops be no gouernors of countries princes be that is Bishops bear not the sword to reward reuenge princes do Bishops haue no power to command punish princes haue This appeareth by the words of our Sauiour expressely forbidding his Apostles to be rulers of nations leauing it to princes The kings of nations rule ouer their people and they that be great ones exercise authority With you it shal not be so that is you shall neither beare rule nor exercise authority ouer your brethren Phi. The word is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they ouerrule their subiects with iniustice violence you shal not do so Theo. So your new translatioÌ„ ouer ruleth the word howbeit Christ in that place doth not traduce the power of princes as vniust or outragious but distinguisheth yâ— calling of his Apostles froÌ„ the maner of regimeÌ„t which God hath allowed the magistrate Christ â—aith not princes bee tyrantes you shal deale more curteously than they do but he saith Princes bee Lords and rulers ouer their people by Gods ordinaÌ„ce you shal not be so Again the word which S. Luke hath is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 without any composition They be Lords and masters S. Paul confesseth of himselfe other Apostles 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Not that we be Lords or Masters of your faith yea the compound 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is with power force to rule meÌ„ whether they will or no not with wrong iniury to oppresse them therefore the conclusion is ineuitable that princes may lawfully compell punish their subiects which Bishops may not This distinction between them is euident by their seueral coÌ„missions which God hath signed The prince not the priest beareth the sword ergo the prince not
to keepe them he that might commaund not he that must obey Lotharius not Leo. Can you looke for stronger proofes or plainer wordes that the Prince was the Popes superiour in causes Ecclesiasticall If the Bishop of Rome were a SERVANT to christian Emperours then was he not their ruler If a SVBIECT vnder them then no superiour ouer them If SVPPLIANT to their persons and OBEDIENT to their lawes then no deposer of Princes nor reseruer of their edicts to bee short if they were correctors and iudges of his demainour and doinges then his claime to punish and depriue them of their kingdomes is vsurped and wicked and so Princes hauing no superiour but onely God are consequently supreme gouernours ouer all their subiectes be they laie-men or Clerkes to commaund that which is good and prohibite that which is euill not in ciuill affaires only but in matters also concerning diuine Religion Phi. I confesse places somewhat moue me neither can I vppon the suddaine answere them yet are there many both authorities and reasons that make with vs for the contrarie Theo. Shew me but one Scripture Father or Councell all this while that proueth the Pope to bee the Princes superiour and I will aske no further answere Phi. God saith to Ieremie I haue appointed thee this day ouer nations kingdomes to pull vppe to beate downe to disperse to ouerthrow to build and plant Theo. Was Ieremie euer Pope Phi. I doe not saie hee was Theo. Then that which God spake to Ieremie concludeth nothing for the Pope Phi. If a meane Prophet had that power to plant and remoue kingdomes how much more he that is head of the vniuersal church and iudge ouer the whole earth Theo. Your antecedent is false and your consequent foolish For Ieremie had no such power as you dreame of hee was appointed a Prophet to denounce the wrath of God against nations and Countries not a Prince to displace Rulers and translate kingdomes It is a grosse peruerting of the Scriptures to wrest them to that sense Next your consequent supposeth that the Pope is head of the vniuersall Church and iudge ouer the whole earth which vaine presumption is no good illation you must bring vs better conclusions before they wil be currant Phi. The text is plaine I haue appointed thee ouer nations and kingdomes Theo. I haue appointed thee ouer them not a Prince to subdue them but a Prophet to warne them Phi. How proue you that exposition Theo. The text it selfe saith so Prophetam Gentibus dedite I haue made thee a Prophet ouer nations And the verie next wordes before yours are these Ecce posui verba mea in ore tuo ecce constitui te hodie super gentes super regna c. Behold I haue put my wordes in thy mouth behold I haue appointed thee ouer nations and kingdomes that is a Prophet with my wordes in thy mouth not a magistrate with the materiall sworde in thine hand This we likewise proue by the execution of his office For he prophesied the captiuitie of the Iewes the taking of the king and the citie the destruction of the Aegyptians Philistines Moabites Ammonites Idumeans Persians Damascus Babylon and other kingdoms nations but he neuer deposed king nor altered state ergo his coÌ„mission was to foreshew the ruines ouerthrows decaies changes of kingdoms natioÌ„s common-wealthes not to practise them he was the man that foretolde them he was not he meanes to worke them Theodorete saith of these words I haue appointed thee ouer natioÌ„s kingdoms to pul vp beat down disperse ouerthrow build plant for he prophesied not only the Iewes captiuity but their deliuerance by Cyrus He prophesied also to many other nations al kinds of calamities And likewise Bernard Rusticani sudoris quodam schemate labor spiritualis expressus est Disce sarculo non sceptro tibi opus esse vt facias opus Prophetae By a certaine resemblance of the husbandmaÌ„s paines the spirituall labor of the Preacher is expressed Learne that thou must haue an hooke to weed not a scepter to rule if thou wilt do the worke of a Prophet Nicolaus de Lyra 1300. yeares after Christ could hit the right sense of this place I haue appointed thee to roote vp that is to denouÌ„ce the inhabitaÌ„ts shal be remoued out of the laÌ„d to built plaÌ„t that is to denouÌ„ce that the Iewes shal be builded plaÌ„ted again in their own couÌ„try This I take to be the right meaning of the text if that please you not but you will haue the Prophet himselfe to be the workman then Ieremy was sent not to plant and pul vp Priâ—â—es not to build and beate downe kingdomes but as your own gloze saith to roote vp vices to beate downe heresies to build vp vertues Euery plant saith Hierom vpon those words which the heauenly father hath not planted shal be rooted vp the building which hath not his foundation on the rock but in the sand is vndermined ouerthrown by the word of God And Gregory The Prophet is first willed to destroy after to build first to roote vp after to plant because the foundation of truth is neuer wel laid except the frame of error be first subuerted Yea Many saith HieroÌ„ vnderstand this place of the person of Christ which destroied the kingdom of the diuell Take which of these senses you like best so you bestowe not that on Ieremy which is proper to Christ to be king of kings Lord of lords nor allow him the liberty that God reserueth to himselfe to bear rule ouer the kingdom of men to giue it to whome hee will which no Prophet before Christ no Apostle since Christ no mortall creature euer claimed or vsed but onely the whoore of Babilon that raigneth ouer the kinges of the earth Phi. The nations and kings saith God by Esaie that wil not serue thee shall perish Theo. Whose translation is that Phi. The Septuagintes Theo. But the Hebrew is That nation and kingdom which wil not serue thee shall perish And so doth S. Hierom translate Phi. There is no great difference betwixt them Theo. As much as is betweene the Prince and the people Phi. Both Prince and people must serue the church or else they shall perish Theo. Wee reason not what they must doe but what Esaie saith and hee saith the kingdome must serue the king must nurce the church which is a word of more dignitie than seruice is Thou shalt sucke the breastes of kinges And againe Kinges shall bee thy foster fathers and Queenes thy nurcing mothers but I sticke not on this Phi. You neede not for in plaine wordes it is said a little before Reges eorum ministrabunt tibi Their kings shal serue thee Theo. Their kings shall attend thee or minister vnto thee The word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth him that is next about a maÌ„
as by the seede of her husbande Thou wast conceiued in that thou receiuedst the name of Christ and the Lorde to make his wisedome milke for vs came clothed with flesh vnto vs. Shee is a most true mother which openeth her bosome to all nations when they shall bee newe borne and offereth her teates when they are newe borne The teeth cheekes and lippes of this spouse wee vnderstande sayth Ambrose to bee the vertues of the soule Yea the Church is life and as Paul sayth the Pillour of trueth These speeches and others that might bee alleaged shewe the Church to bee resembled to a woman and trueth sayth life grace and such like giftes of Godâ— bee counted not onely the garments but euen the bowels and partes of the Church And therefore the name of the Church sometimes imployeth as well the thinges that bee in the Church as the persons that bee of the Church which was the third point that I noted Phi. These speeches bee figuratiue Theo. I did not seeke for the proprietie but the vse of the woord and yet in proper speach persons without these thinges are not the Church and in the very definition of the Church as well thinges as persons bee comprised Phi. In deede persons enduen with those giftes and graces of God that bee needefull for eternall life are properly the Church but thinges without Persons are not the Church Theo. I do not exclude Persons but include those thinges which cause the Persons to bee members of the Church Phi. I will not much impugne that Theo. Returne then to the woordes of Ambrose which occasioned me to make this distinction A good Emperour is not aboue the church Not aboue the Church vniuersal for that consisteth of men Angels aboue whom princes be not Neither aboue the Church militant in earth for that containeth all the faithfull of all ages and Countries ouer whom there can bee no Prince but onely Christ. Phi. And what For the Church dispersed through the Romane Empire in the time of S. Ambrose was the Prince aboue it or no Theo. You must here distinguish the thinges proposed in the Church from the Persons that were members of the Church The Persons both Laymen and Clerks by Gods lawe were the Princes subiects the thinges comprised in the Church and by God himselfe committed to the Church because they were Gods coulde bee subiect to the power and will of no mortall creature Pope nor Prince Phi. Say that againe Theo. In shorter termes the Prince was aboue the Persons in the Church but not aboue the thinges in the Church Phi. Aboue the Persons but not aboue the thinges in the Church What thinges meane you Theo. Those thinges which God commaundeth in his Church and requireth of his Church Phi. I vnderstande you not Theo. Understande you our sauiour when hee sayth Giue vnto God the things which bee Gods Phi. Hee meaneth as I take it faith deuotion holynes repentance patience obedience and such like christian dueties and vertues Theo. You say well these bee thinges which Princes haue no right to clayme nor power to rule They belong onely to God To these I adde the meanes whereby God worketh these thinges in his church to witte the woord and Sacraments ouer these thinges wee graunt Princes haue no power Phi. S. Ambrose sayth not ouer the Church Theo. That is not ouer the thinges which God hath setled in his church but ouer the Persons Princes haue power Phi. What a shift of descant that is Theo. Call you that a shift which I before confirmed and you confessed to bee true Phi. What did you confirme Theo. That Princes haue power by Gods appointment ouer al men I brought you Tertullian Chrysostome Iustinian Gregorie and Ambrose himself witnessing that Princes had power ouer al men S. Paul auoucheth the same Let euery soule be subiect to their power It is no shift it is trueth that our sauiour saith kings of nations beare rule ouer them that is ouer their subiects You must either take the names of Princes and Gouernours from them or els yeeld them Countries and people to be subiect vnder them Phi. I doe so Theo. Then Princes haue power ouer all men that is ouer all Persons Phi. Ouer all persons but not ouer the Church Theo. What doe you nowe but make the same distinction your selfe which before you refused at my handes Ouer all persons they haue power ouer the Church they haue not ergo the Church is not here taken for persons And it must needes be taken either for the persons or things for the persons it is not ergo for the thinges and so by your confession mine answere standeth good that Princes haue power ouer the persons but not ouer the things in the Church And so saith S. Ambrose Ea quae diuina imperatoriae potestati non esse subiecta The thinges that be Gods be not subiect to the Emperours power though the Emperour had power ouer all Persons as Ambrose himselfe affirmeth Phi. Shall S. Ambrose strike the stroke in this case Theo. The stroke is alreadie giuen by the sacred scriptures by the publike Lawes and auncient stories of the primatiue Church and yet in this point wee reiect not the iudgement of S. Ambrose Phi. S. Ambrose is cleane against your opinion that Princes should bee gouernours in causes ecclesiastical To the yonger Valentinian the Emperour thus he answereth Vexe not thy selfe so farre O Emperour to thinke that thy Emperiall right perteyneth to diuine thinges exalt not thy selfe aboue thy measure For it is written Giue to Cesar that which is Cesars and to God that which belongeth vnto God The Palace for the Emperour but the Churches are for the Priest Againe the same holy Doctor When didst thou euer heare most clement Prince that Lay men haue iudged Bishoppes Shall wee bend by flatterie so farre that forgetting the right of our Priesthood we shoulde yeelde vp to others that which God hath commended vnto vs And recounting the whole course of holy scriptures and all times past who can deny but that in the cause of faith in the cause of faith I say Bishoppes haue iudged of Emperours and not Emperours of Bishoppes Theo. Omit the circumstances and causes that moued Ambrose thus to write which bee the wordes you take most hold of Phi. These Thy Emperiall right pertayneth not to diuine thinges The Palace for the Emperour but the Churches are for the Priest In a cause of faith Bishoppes haue iudged of Emperours and not Emperours of Bishops Theo. You helpe the matter forward with false translating and nypping the wordes and yet they proue nothing against vs. In steede of vt putes te in ea quae diuina sunt imperiale aliquod ius habere Do not think thy selfe to haue an Emperiall right ouer those things which bee Gods or ouer diuine thinges you say cunningly Do not thinke thy Emperiall right pertayneth to diuine thinges
Ecclesiastical causes Theo. Proofes go very low with you when you fal from Princes to inferiour iudges yet mistake your text For Hilarie beseecheth nothing of CoÌ„stantius in that place but that the iudges of euerie Prouince should forbear medling in matters of religioÌ„ with tortures violeÌ„ce The whole book the words before the next part of the same sentence ioyned to this which you bring with a coniunction copulatiue confirme that to bee the true meaning of Hilarie This is the right order of the place We beseech not only with words but also with teares that the catholike churches be no longer oppressed with greeuous iniuries sustain intolerable persecutions coÌ„tumelies that which is shameful eueÌ„ of our brethren Let your clemency prouide appoint that all iudges euery where to whom prouinces are committed which ought to take care charge of commonwealth matters onely refrain from medling with religion Neither let them presume vsurp think they may enter into clergymens causes force vexe innocent men with diuerse afflictions threats violence terrours Your singular admirable wisedome perceiueth it is not seemely it ought not to be that men should be forced coÌ„pelled against their wils harts to yeeld addict themselues through violent oppressioÌ„ to such as cease not to sow the corrupt seeds of false doctrine This was the medling with clergie mens causes that Hilarie ment and which he would haue temporall iudges restrained from and yet were his meaning neuer so generall he required nothing but that which Constantine the father of Constantius had by his publike lawes ordained al christian Princes haue since obserued to wit that Ecclesiasticall persons should be conuented before ecclesiasticall iudges For so Constantine decreed CoÌ„mitting iudgemeÌ„t iurisdiction ouer clearks to Bishops Valentinian the elder would haue priests to iudge of priests Yea Iustinian excludeth all secular iudges from hearing the causes of clergie men except it were for ciuill offences If the crime be ecclesiasticall needing ecclesiasticall reformation punishment let the Bishop determine the same the iudges of the Prouince no way intermedling for we wil not haue temporall iudges enter into such matters where as such faults must be examined ecclesiastically by the sacred and diuine rules and Canons which our lawes take no scorne to follow And though he bar ciuill iudges from the hearing of such causes yet doth not exempt clergie men Bishops nor others from the obedience of his ecclesiastical lawes as the wordes import that bee next to these Omnibus quae iam a nobis sancita sunt siue super sanctiss ecclesus siue super Deo amabilibus Episcopis siue super clericis siue super monachis propriam virtutem habentibus All thinges which we haue already decreed concerning the most holie churches and blessed Bishops and touching clerkes and monks standing in their ful force Hee quiteth clergie men from temporall barres but he bindeth both them and their iudges to the tenor of his ecclesiasticall lawes as well in their Synods as in their Consistories as appeareth at large by his 123. constitution so that this place of Hilarie might well haue been spared saue onely to make vp your tale Phi. Is this your opinion that Princes themselues may lawfully medle with Ecclesiasticall causes and persons though their inferiour iudges may not Theo. We say princes exempted clergie men from secular iudges but not from themselues And that Princes from the beginning haue medled with persons causes Ecclesiasticall wee bring you not onely fiue authorities that shall bee neither maimed nor wrested as yours bee but fiue hundred actes examples lawes and edictes that shall bee strong and effectuall proofes for this purpose Phi. You talke of cost when you saie fiue hundered Theo. Wee coulde far passe that number if the number would moue you to leaue follie but I will go an other waie to worke with you What good king can you name before or after Christ for 1000. yeares but such as medled with Ecclesiasticall matters Phi. Nay what good king can you name that did Theo. They be sooner named than answered Nabuchodonosor in making a law that euery people nation language which spake any blasphemie against the God of Sidrac Misac and Abâ—dnago should bee drawen in peeces their houses made priuies did hee not medle with matters of Religion Phi. Nabuchodonosor was a tyrant The. But being corrected by the diuine miracle he made saith Augustine a religious and commendable law for the truth that who so blasphemed the God of Sidrac Misac and Abednago should with his house perish vtterly Darius vpon the sight of an other miracle wrote to all people nations and languages that dwelt in the world with these words I make a decree that in all the dominion of my kingdome men tremble and feare before the God of Daniell The king of Niniueth hearing of that which Ionas threatned from God proclaimed a fast and charged all men to put on sack-cloath and crie mightily to God and to turne from their euill wayes and the wickednesse that was in their handes I trust you dare not condemne the king of Niniueth for an intruder vpon ecclesiasticall causes whose seruice so well pleased God that he spared the king and his subiectes from destruction hanging ouer their heads and yet fasting praier and repentance be causes meere spirituall in which the king interposed his royall authoritie by the councell of his Nobles and not of Ionas who departed the citie grieued and angrie with God for pardoning the Niniuites vpon their conuersion The factes of these three kinges I alleadge the rather because S. Augustine grounded himselfe vpon them as proofes that christian kinges may medle with matters of Religion and as patternes for them to follow Ye kinges vnderstand be wise ye that iudge the earth serue the Lord with feare and reioyce before him with trembling How do kings serue the Lord in feare but by forbidding and punishing with a religious seueritie those thinges which are done against the precepts of God As the king of Niniueth serued by compelling the whole citie to appease the Lord. As Darius serued by giuing the Idole into Daniels power to bee broken and casting his enemies to the Lions As Nabuchodonosor serued by restraining all that were in his kingdom from blaspheming God with a terrible law And againe WheÌ„ Emperours professe the truth they commaunde for truth against error As Nabuchodonosor proposed an edict for truth against error that whosoeuer blasphemed the God of Sidrach Misaach and Abednago should be destroied and his house dispersed And you Donatistes will not that christian Emperours command any such thing against you If the commaundements of kinges haue nothing to do with the publishing of religion and prohibiting of sacrileges why then do you signe your selues at king Nabuchodosors edict commaunding such thinges For when you heare it doe
life Theo. The necessities of this life are nourishment and rayment the rest are superflâ—ities When wee haue foode and apparel sayth the Apostle let vs bee therewith content whatsoeuer is aboue is needlesse and noysome Our Sauiour willing his not to bee carefull for their life expresseth all thinges that bee needefull for this present life Take no thought saying what shall wee eate what shall wee drinke or wherewith shall wee bee clothed Your heauenly Father knoweth that you haue neede of these thinges These thinges wee neede and therefore are they promised other thinges are not promised and therefore we neede them not If Princes were first ordained of God for those thinges onely which are needefull to maintaine this temporall life for thinges superfluous are besides the promise and without the protection of GOD the power and charge of Princes shoulde consist in meates drinkes and apparell and Princes haue no farther care of their people than they haue of their houndes and Horses to see them well fedde and smoothe kept which is a very wicked and brutish opinion Phi. They are besides to maintaine peace and quietnes among their subiects Theo. You might haue ioyned godlines and honestie therewithall as S. Paul doeth and then had you done well I exhort sayth hee that prayers and supplications be made for Kings for all that are in authoritie that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godlinesse and honestie Prayers must bee made for kinges that they may discharge their duties according to Gods ordinance which is that their subiects by their helpe and meanes may leade an honest godly and quiet life godlinesse and honestie being the chiefest endes of our praiers and effectes of their powers For God hath not put the goodes landes bodies and liues of men into Princes handes to cloath their backes and fill their bellies but with praise to prouoke those that be willing to driue those that be not willing with punishments to imbrace pietie towards God sobrietie towardes themselues and charitie towardes their neighbours This you may learne by the regiment of euery priuate familie which is both a part and a paterne of the common-wealth Al parents and masters haue a farther charge ouer their children and seruantes than to see them defended froÌ„ hunger and colde A wicked father is hee that feedeth and cloatheth and nourâ—ereth not his children Ye fathers saith S. Paul bring vp your children in the instruction and information of the Lord. Come children saith Dauid harken vnto me I will teach you the feare of the Lord. Moses admonishing the whole people of the Iewes as it were speaking to euery particular maÌ„ Take heed saith he to thy selfe that thou forget not the thinges which thine eyes haue seene and that they depart not out of thine heart all the dayes of thy life but teach them thy sonnes and thy sonnes sonnes and so God himselfe said to Moses Gather mee the people togither and I will cause them to heare my words that they may learne to feare me all the dayes that they shall liue vpon the earth and that they may teach their children This diligence God coÌ„mended and rewarded in Abraham as the best part of a fathers duetie I know him saith God that hee will commaund his sonnes and his houshold after him that they keepe the waie of the Lord to do righteousnes and iudgement that the Lord may bring vpon Abraham that good which he hath spoken vnto him If priuate men be bound to traine vp their families in the feare of God and loue of vertue much more are Princes the publike fathers of their countries and exalted to farre greater and higher authoritie by Gods ordinance than fathers or masters I say much more are they in coÌ„science charged by calling licenced to frame their subiectes to the true seruice of God right obedience of his law which be thinges not temporal but spiritual This king Dauid protesteth and promiseth vnto God he will doe in his kingdom Him that priuilie slaundereth his neighbour will I destroy Mine eyes shall be to the faithfull of the Land that they may dwell with mee hee that walketh in a perfect way he shal serue me There shall no deceitful or proude person dwell within mine house hee that telleth lies shall not remaine in my sight Betimes will I destroy all the wicked of the Land that I may cut off al the workers of iniquitie from the citie of the Lord. This christian Princes as you heard before made not onely a part but the chiefest part of their duetie The true religion of God and honest conuersation euen of Priests themselues is our chiefest care saith Iustinian And so Valentinian Theodosius The search of true religion we finde to be the chiefest care of the Imperiall Maiestie With whom S. Austen agreeth defending Felix a catholike Bishop against the Donatists for that he was cleared at a temporall bar by the Princes commandement of such crimes as were obiected to him notwithstanding they were ecclesiasticall One of you saith a Bishop ought not to be cleared at the Proconsuls bar as though he sought it not rather the Emperour commanded that kinde of trial to be had to whose charge that matter did most pertaine and whereof the Prince was to render an account to God Of this mind were the Bishops of Rome themselues in former ages Eleutherius not long after Christ wrote to Lucius king of this realm amongst other things in this wise You are Gods Vicar in that kingdom The natioÌ„s people of Britanny are yours whom you ought to gather bring vnto concord peace vnto the faith law of Christ vnto his holy Church to nourish maintaine protect rule alwaies to defende from iniuries mischiefs froÌ„ enemies A king you shal be whiles you rule wel which except you do you shal be vnworthy the name of a king loose it which God forbid So Pope Iohn made answere to Pipin Charles Illos decet vocari Reges qui vigilaÌ„ter defendunt regunt ecclesiam Dei populum eius imitati Regem Psalmographum dicentem non habitabit in medio domus meae qui facit superbiam c. We must cal those kings which doe carefully defend rule the church of God his people after the example of king Dauid in his Psalmes a proude man shall not dwel in mine house This Gregory the great earnestly exhorted Edelberth vnto the first that was christened of the Saxon kings in this Land For this cause the almightie God bringeth good Princes to the regiment of his people that by them hee may bestow the gifts of his mercy vpon al that are vnder theÌ„ Therfore glorious son the grace which you haue obtained at Gods hands keepe with a careful minde hasten to extend the faith of Christ in the nations vnder you Increase the zeale of your vprightnes to
meane time learne that to beare the sworde is the Princes and not the Priests function and that the kings of Iudah which most vsed their temporall sword for the restoaring of trueth and purging of error wanne most fauour with God and honor with men as I shewed before in Dauid Iehosaphat Ezechias and Iosias Phi. To iudge of trueth is the Priests charge and that you referre to the Prince Theo. To know what must bee taught is the Pastours care to take heede what they beleeue or whom they follow God hath referred that to the hearers at their peril and more than that we giue no Prince Phi. The office and zeale of good Priests is notably recommended vnto vs in the deposition of the wicked Queene Athalia She to obtaine the Crowne after Ochasias killed all his children onely one which by a certaine good womans pietie was secretly withdrawen from the massacre saued and brought vppe within the Temple for seuen yeres space al which time the said Queene vsurped the kingdome till at length Ioida the high Priest by opportunitie called to him forces both of the Priestes and people proclaimed the right heire that was in his custodie annointed and crowned him king and caused immediatly the pretensed Queene notwithstanding shee cried Treason Treason as not onely iust possessors but wicked vsurpers vse to doe to bee slaine with her fautors at her owne Court gate Thus doe Priests deale and iudge for the innocent and lawfull Princes when tyme requireth much to their honour and agreeable to their holy calling Theo. Egernesse blindeth your vnderstanding when to prooue that a lawfull Prince may bee depriued of State and life which you seeke to defend you bring an example of a wicked woman vsurping the crowne and playing the tyrant that was suppressed and punished by the rightfull inheritour of the Scepter first proclaimed and Crowned by the consent of his whole Realme Phi. Ioida the high Priest commaunded her to bee slaine and not the king For he was a child of seuen yeeres age and had no such discretion Theo. Ioida had good warrant by the Lawes of God and man to do that hee did First hee saued the yong king aliue and hyding him from the furie of Athalia secretly nourced him in the house of God and in that respect might lawfully protect him and execute iustice for him Againe he was the Prince of his Tribe as wel as others were of their Tribes and therefore might take vpon him as much as any other of the Princes in the minoritie of the king to pacifie the Realme and punish the vsurper Thirdly his wife was the kinges aunt and himselfe the neerest allye that the king had and for that cause by the Lawe of nature and nations bound to see the Princes right age and innocencie defended Lastly that he did was by the common consent of al the Nobles and Captaines For the scripture sayth that before he ventered to proclaine king Ioash He caused the captaines the chiefe fathers of Israel to come vnto him into the house of the Lorde and made a couenant with them and tooke an othe of them in the house of the Lord and shewed them the kinges sonne So that Ioida had very good and sufficient authoritie without and besides his Priesthoode to doe that hee did which you dissemble and make a florish as if hee had done this only by vertue of his vocation which is most false Phi. No man can be ignorant howe stoutly Elias being sought to death by Achab and his Queene Iezabel that ouerthrewe holy Altars and murthered all the true religions that coulde bee founde in their lande tolde them to their face that not hee or other men of God whome they persecuted but they and their house were the disturbers of Israel And slewe in his zeale all the said Iezabels false Prophetes fostered at her Table euen foure hundred at one time and so set vppe holy Altars againe Howe hee handled the Idolatrous king Ochozias his Captaines and messengers wasting them and an hundred of their traine by fire from heauen till the third Captaine was forced to humble himselfe vppon his knees vnto him Howe hee had commission to annoint Hazael king of Syria Eliseus a Prophet for himselfe and Iehu king of Israel and so to put downe the sonne and whole house of Achab which thereby lost all the tytle and right to the kingdome for euer Theo. Elias zeale wee knowe and his stoue answere to Achab in saying I haue not troubled Israel but thou and thy fathers house in that yee haue forsaken the commandements of the Lord and thou hast followed Baalim Yet haue you but a colde sute of his stout speach For if Prophetes may reproue kings may they therefore depose them you bring your fiue wittes in question if you stand to this collection Phi. He slew in his zeale at one tyme foure hundred of Iezabels false Prophets fostered at her Table Theo. The famine which the land felt and the wonder which Elias did were the cause why king Achab deliuered the Prophetes of Baal into Elias handes to bee slaine by the people according to the Lawe of God Phi. Nay Elias slewe them Theo. Thinke you that Elias with his owne handes murdered so many Phi. The Scripture sayth Elias slue them interprete that howe you can Theo. I tooke Elias all this while for a Prophet and not for an executioner Phi. Though it were not his act to kill them it was his authoritie that they were killed Theo. His direction you might haue sayde but not his authoritie For Elias was a priuate man and no magistrate Phi. King Achab was farre enough from killing them had it not beene for Elias Theo. Elias might induce the king to doe it compell him hee coulde not Phi. Howe could Elias induce the King to doe that deede Theo. The famine was so great in Israel for lacke of raine that man and beast were ready to perish and raine they coulde haue none but at Elias woord as Elias had tolde the king before the drought beganne Meeting therefore with Achab and being chalenged by him as the author of this famine and troubler of Israel hee discharged himselfe and protessed before the King that GOD plagued the whole lande because hee and his fathers house had forsaken the commaundements of the Lorde followed other Gods And to iustifie his speach hee offered to prooue before all Israel on the daunger of his owne heade that the King and the lande were but seduced and abused by the Prophetes of Baal and that hee would proue by no woorse meanes than by miraculous fire from heauen which should shewe them whose sacrifice GOD accepted assuring them of raine abundant after their conuersion to the true GOD for which cause hee was at this tyme sent vnto them To this the king and the rest gaue their consents and when by the signe which Elias wrought
Priesthoode who with his Iron rodde bruseth the pride of Princes that rebell against his Spouse and kingdome in earth like a potters poâ—shard and hath right in his Church ouer all kingdomes to plant and plucke vp to buyld and destroy afore whom al kings shall fall downe and all Nations do him seruice Theo. That the Sonne of God will bruse the pride of those Princes with an Iron rodde which rebell against his Spouse and kingdome in earth like a potters shard and that he hath right both within and without his Church ouer all kingdomes to plant and plucke vp to buyld and destroy afore whom all kings on earth and Angels in heauen shall fall downe and doe him seruice these thinges are vndoubted with vs and brought in by you but onely for a windlace to make the reader cast his eyes on Christ and his kingdome while you closely conuey the Princes Scepter vnder the Popes feete Accursed bee hee that doeth not confesse the supereminent power which the Sonne of God hath ouer all kingdomes ouer all creatures ouer the States and liues bodies and soules of all men Wil you thence inferre the Pope hath the like In sooth masters you must make hard shift before these reasons will bee good Phi. Christs Priestly prerogatiue passing his owne regall dignitie much more excelling all other humane power of the worlde in most ample and exact termes is coÌ„municated to the chiefe Priest and Pastor of our soules and secondarily to the rest of the gouernours of the Church in other manner of clauses than any earthly Princes can shewe for their pretensed spirituall regiment Fie on that secular pride wilfull blind heresie so repugning against Gods expresse ordinaunce and yet is of wicked Sect-masters and flatterers vpholden to the eternall calamitie of themselues and of millions of others Theo. This is stale Rhetorike to come with an outcrie when you should make your conclusion Conclude first and rayle after otherwise you shewe your selues to trust more to the slippernes of your tongues than to the soundnes of your cause Phi. Our illation is euident Christ as a Priest bruseth the pride of Princes with his Iron rodde and hath right ouer all kingdomes to plant and plucke vppe buyld and destroy But Christs Priestly prerogatiue in most ample and exact termes is communicated to the chiefe Priest and Pastor of our soules The chiefe Pastor therefore hath the like right ouer all kingdomes to plant plucke vp buyld and destroy Theo. The power which you mention in your first proposition is attributed to Christ not as a Priest but as a king The wordes of the Psalme are very plaine to that end I haue set my king vpon my holy hill of Sion Aske of mee and I will giue thee the heathen for thine inheritaunce and the endes of the earth for a possession to thee Thou shalt crush them with a scepter of Iron and breake them in pieces like a potters vessell S. Iohn applieth the same place to the royal and not to the Priestly power of Christ. I saw the heauen open and beholde a white horse and hee that sate vpon him was called faithful and true and hee iudgeth and fighteth in righteousnes On his head were many Crownes and out of his mouth went a sharpe sword that with it he should smite the heathen and hee shal rule them with a rod of Iron And hee hath on his garment and on his thigh a name written the King of Kings and Lord of Lordes Howe thinke you His horse his Crowne his robe his traine his sworde his stile described in this place expresse they his Priestly or Princely prerogatiue As a Priest hee sacrificed himselfe on the crosse and had his owne blood shed for the remission of sinnes As a King hee subdueth his enemies and maketh them like dust vnder his feete bee they Princes or others Your Maior is therefore false that to bruse kings with an Iron rod and to breake them in pieces like a potters shard is a priuilege of Christs Priesthoode and not of his Princehoode Your Minor that Christs Priestly prerogatiue is communicated in most ample exact termes to the chiefe Priest and Pastor of the Church hath farre lesse trueth in it than your Maior For al the prerogatiue of Christs Priesthood is not communicated to any other Such an high Priest saith S. Paul it became vs to haue which shoulde be holy vndefiled separated from sinners made higher than the heauens who in the end of the world appeared once to put away sinne by the offering vp of himselfe and after that one sacrifice for sinne is set down for euer at the right hand of God hauing obtained eternal redeÌ„ption for vs and being able perfectly to saue them that come to God by him seeing he euer lyueth to make intercession for them These and many such prerogatiues of his Priesthood I hope you will not empart to the Pope lest wee crie fie on your blasphemous hearts and mouthes which set the man of sinne equall with the sonne of God If you restraine your Minor by confessing that not all but some of the prerogatiues of Christes Priesthoode are communicated to others then your conclusion hath no force both your premisses being meere particulars For though Christ gaue some part of his power honour to his Apostles yet this hee gaue not and therefore his gift to them can doe you no good vnlesse you prooue that hee gaue them this prerogatiue amongst the rest which he bestowed on them Phi. Hee sayd to Peter and his successours Whatsoeuer thou bindest on earth shall be bound in heauen and whatsoeuer thou losest in earth shall bee loosed in heauen Can you require a more ample graunt Theo. Peter and the rest were to bind and lose the sinnes and soules of men by the woord and sacraments not the Scepters and swords of Princes And so Christ himselfe expoundeth his graunt vnto them Whose sinnes soeuer you remit they are remitted vnto them and whose sinnes soeuer yee retaine they are retayned And in this place you leaue out the first part of the graunt which should direct the whole I will giue thee the keyes of the kingdome of heauen not of the kingdomes on earth Bernard though he were but of late yeeres yet was he not afraid to tel Pope Eugenius ergo in criminibus non in possessionibus potestas vestra quoniam propter illa non propter has accepistis claues regni caelorum Your power concerneth sinnes and not possessions because yee receiued the keyes of the kingdome of heauen for those thinges and not for these And so Theophilact Vnderstand the keyes which bind and lose to bee the pardoning or punishing of sinnes And so S. Ambrose The right of the holy Ghost consisteth in bynding and losing of sinnes As also Saint Augustine The keyes Christ gaue to his Church that what she loosed in earth should be
or the order of those thinges which were doone by reason Platina in these wordes runneth so on heade against the rest And therefore you shall pardon vs for receiuing a man of meane iudgement and one that writeth verie negligently of these affaires before the rest that purposely and largely treated of those matters as neere as they coulde get the knowledge or come by the likelihood of those actions These bee your presidentes for the depriuing of Princes betweene sixe-hundreth and a thowsande yeares after Christ. Other or better you haue not and these you see bee verie slender Phi. Wee coulde alleadge more but you will shift them as you doe these Theo. Wee shift not when wee reproue the partiall and corrupt reportes of your owne fellowes by better and elder testimonies Moe if you haue you neede not spare Philand Philippicus was depriued of the Empire by the Bishoppe of Rome and so was Childerike of the kingdome of Fraunce Theoph. Your Law doeth not sticke to boast that Zacharias deposed Childerike King of Fraunce and placed Pipine in his roome Philand So hee did Theo. Who sayth so besides you Philand Platina sayeth Eius authoritate regnum Franciae Pipino adiudicatur By Zacharies authoritie the kingdom of Fraunce was adiudged vnto Pâ—pine And Frisingensis affirmeth that Pipine was absolued by Pope Steuen from the othe of allegeance which he had giuen to Childerike and so were the rest of the Nobles of Fraunce and then the king being shauen and thrust into a Monasterie Pipine was annoynted king which you thinke much the Pope shoulde doe in our dayes Theoph. Sette aside your helping and interlacing the Storie and I see no cause why Zacharie shoulde bee thought by his Apostolike power to haue deposed Childerike Philand Deposed hee was Theoph. But neither for religion nor by the Popes Consistorie Philand For the cause of his deposition I will not greatly striue Our Lawe sayeth hee was deposed Pro eo quod tantae potestati inutilis erat for that hee was vnfitte for the kingdome but sure Pope Zacharie deposed him Theoph. Sure you bee deceiued Pope Zacharie was then of no such accompt that hee coulde depose Princes Hee was consulted whether it might lawfully bee doone or no but farther than so the Bishoppe of Rome did not in open sight intermedle with the matter whatsoeuer his priuie practises were though many of your Monkes and Bishops to grace the Pope doe make it his onely Act. Philand In all these cases our Stories are against you and no reason wee credite you to discredite them Theoph. I desire you not to credite mee and giue me leaue to doe as much for you but if your owne Stories make with vs I see no cause you shoulde discredite them Philand We doe not Theoph. You may not Then touching the persons which did the deede Sabellicus sayth Proceres Regni populi amplexi Pipini virtutem pertesâ—que regis amentiam Zacharia Romano Pontifice prius consulto regis appellatione Childerico adempta vt spes etiam regni adimeretur in clerum detondent Pipinum regem creant The Nobles Commons of Fraunce or Germanie imbracing the valour of Pipine and hating the foolishnesse of their king hauing first consulted Zacharie Bishop of Rome tooke from Childerike the name of a king and to cutte him from all hope of aspiring to the crowne they sheere him a Monke and elect Pipine for their king Blondus saieth I finde in Alcuinus Paulus and diuerse others which wrote the Actes of the Francks that the Nobles and CommoÌ„s of that Nation duly considering the worthines of Pipine sottishnes of Childerike consulted Zacharie the Bishop of Rome whether they should tolerate so folish a king any loÌ„ger defraud Pipin of his deserued princely honor when the Bishop made answere that he was best worthy to be king which could best discharge the dutie of a king the FraÌ„kes with the publike consent of the whole Nation pronounced Pipine for their king and Childerike was shorne and made a Monke Nauclerus saieth The Franckes elected Pipine for their king by the publike consent of the whole Nation which is all one with that Blondus sayeth They declared or pronounced him for their king And this is the reason that your owne gloze limiteth your Lawe in this sort Deposuit id est deponentibus consensit Zacharie deposed Childerike that is he consented to those which deposed him Phi. The most of our Stories saie hee did it Theoph. Your Stories are very forwarde to attribute euerie thing to the Pope that may any waie increase his power And it may be the Pope had an oare in that boate more than euerie bodie well perceiued For Pipine was the man on whome the Pope wholy relied and whose power hee afterwarde vsed to quaile the Lombards and defeate the Grecians that the Pope and Pipine might diuide the spoyles of the West betweene them And therefore I can bee soone induced to thinke that a maine plotte was layde first to make Pipine king of France and then by his helpe to turne the Greeke Emperour out of Italie that the Pope might haue share of the reuenues of the Empire as not long after it came to passe but that the Pope then claymed any power to depose Princes and giue kingdomes or that the better sore of your owne stories staie on any such pretences you shall neuer shewe Zacharie being consulted made answere what the Germanes by Gods Lawe as he thought might doe but he did not appoint them by sentence or censure what they should doe Philand Howe shall wee knowe that in this diuersitie of reportes Theoph. You shall heare Zacharies answere to the Legates that were sent about this matter and that you may safely trust Philand I mistrust not his owne wordes Theop. You neede not hee woulde fauour himselfe as much as hee might with any good coulour When Volorade and Burcharde were sent to Zacharie to vnderstand his iudgement his answere was I finde in the sacred storie of the Diuine Scriptures that the people fell awaie from their wretchlesse and lasciuious king that despised the counsell of the wise men of his Realme and created a sufficient man one of themselues king God him selfe allowing their doinges All power and rule belong to God Princes are his ministers in their kingdomes And rulers are therefore chosen for the people that they shoulde follow the will of God the chiefe ruler in all thinges and not to doe what they list Hee is a true king that guideth the people committed to his charge according to the prescript and line of Gods Lawe All that hee hath as power glorie riches honour and dignitie he receiueth of the people The people create their king and the people may when the cause so requireth forsake their king It is therefore lawfull for the Franckes and Germanes refusing this vnkindely monster Childerike to choose some such as shall bee able in warre
and peace by his wisedome to protest and keepe in safetie their wiues children parentes goodes and liues I will not examine the Popes diuinitie in that hee sayth Princes haue their powers of the people which the Scripture sayeth they haue of God this is plaine hee claimeth no power to depose Princes but alleadgeth an example that the people may chaunge their king when hee is not able for frensie or follie to do the duetie of a king And by that concludeth it lawfull for the Germanes to refuse that simple idiote which had the Scepter by succession and elect an other Phi. Though you holde the Pope may not yet you confesse the people may depose their Prince Theo. I tell you not what I thinke but what Pope Zacharie sayde to the Germanes Phila. Doe you like or dislike that hee sayde Theo. I shoulde haue asked you that question but because you preuent mee you shall heare what I saie Zâ—charie toucheth not the causes for which Princes may be deposed but the persons by whom it must bee doone if it bee needefull to doe it and that is by their owne Realmes and not by tribunalles abroade as you suppose Phi. Then it may bee doone Theo. When it shoulde bee doone the whole Realme must doe it and not the Pope Phi. But neither hee nor they can doe it except you first assent that it may be doone There can bee no deposers if Princes bee not deposeable Theo. There may fall extremities when Princes are not able to guide themselues much lesse their Realmes Phi. What be those Theo. I named them before frensie follie As if the right heire to any Crowne be a naturall foole or he that is inuested in the Crowne waxe mad and run besides him selfe In either of these two cases any Realme by publike consent and aduise may choose an other Phi. What vnlikely cases you bring vs which neuer yet fell out in proofe Theo. Yeas that they haue Childerike of whom we spake euen now was deposed by the Germanes for a foole And Charles the 3. the last Emperour of Pipines line Gods iustice requiting his children with the verie same measure that he met before vnto his master was deposed by the same people for * a bedlem As also when Iustinus the yonger was * distract of his wits Tiberius was placed in the Empire Philand You make Childerike a foole because you woulde auoide the Popes power to depriue Princes Theophil If you made him not a foole when you putte him from his right vnder that pretence I doe him no wrong Your Stories blaze him for a frantike foole Blondus and Nauclerus saie they did it Pensantes Regis amentiam considering the madnes of the king Sabellicus addeth thereunto * Regis deliria ineptias the follie and frensie of the king Gaguinus saith he was * homo vecors bellua a verie sotte and a beast and for that cause his title in your Stories is Childericus stupidus Childerike the foole whether hee were or no God knoweth but this wee see they handled him like a foole and the Pope had information against him that hee was Deneger monstrum a monster and not a man and therefore were the causes which they alleadged for this deposition true or no wee greatly care not They pretended a cause sufficient if it were true and the Pope confessed it lawefull for the whole Realme to displace such a Prince as was both vn-fitte and vn-able to beare the sworde Philand But Stephen absolued Pipine from the othe of alleageaunce which hee had giuen vnto Childerike Theoph. High time to absolue Pipine from his othe three yeares after Childerike was deposed and hee placed in the kingdome Regino whence that fable first came of Stephens sicknesse at Paris and his recouerie by a vision of Sainct Denis saieth not a worde of any such absolution but onely that Stephen confirmed Pipine and his two sonnes as lawfull kinges of France and adiured the Nobles not to choose them a king of any other line so long as Pipines race indured The rest is added by Monks and Friers in fauor of the Pope as infinite other thinges are in the accidentes of euerie Age. Howbeit absoluing from others if they be lawfull and good is a greater matter than we yet beleeue your holy father may deale with The wauering of your Stories in the cause of Childerikes deposition for sometimes they vrge a defect in Childerike sometimes they pleade a right in Pipine without the king and aboue the king as hauing the regiment of that Realme and all publike affaires committed to him and his for the space of fourscore yeares by way of inheritaunce before hee sought the crowne this wauering in the cause and curious seeking for absolutions and confirmations maketh many men suspect that your pretences against Childerike were not all true But whether Pipine had better interest to the Crowne of Fraunce than Childerike by reason the Mareschal of the Palace was become the kinges master in so much that the king coulde not commaunde his owne diet but at the Marshals pleasure and was gouerned and ouerruled in al things by him as a boy by his tutor which is the constant report of all your witers touching the state of the Germane kinges when Pipine aspired to the crowne or whether Childerike were an idiote and the last of his house as for the better strength of Pipines title your stories auouch I will be no iudge Childerik I say was deposed by the Nobles and commons of his nation and the Pope being consulted whether it were lawfull for them so to doe made answere they might but added no word of his diuine power to dispose kingdoms to his liking And this for Childerik may suffice For Philippicus the answere is easier Hee was a rebell and slue his Master in the fielde and therefore without any farther cause the Romanes might refuse both his name his reigne To this vsurpation when hee added as they thought impietie it was no maruel to see them so earnest against him But in this as in many other things your later Stories stray from the former The elder sort of Historiographers as Beda Regino Marianus Frisingensis Vrspergensis say The people of Rome decreed that neither his name nor letters nor coyne shoulde be receiued the later as Blondus Sabellicus and Nauclerus haue chaunged their tune and say The Bishop of Rome did it at the clamor and petition of the people Sigebert as indifferent betweene them saith the Bishop and the people ioyntly did it So handsomly you can hammer thinges when they come to your fingering and such credit your Stories deserue when the case concerneth your holy Fathers authoritie These bee all the examples you doe or can bring for the space of a thowsand yeares after Christ where Princes were depriued of their crownes by the Bishop of Rome and these how litle they make for your purpose
hee did vppon conference had with the best learned that were in his age When it was knowen in Germanie what Pope Iohn had decreed Ludouike sayth Auentine consulted the best Lawyers and skilfullest diuines that were in Italie Germanie or France especially the doctors of both lawes and diuines of Bononia and Paris They all wrote back that the actes and decrees of pope Iohn against the Emperour were repugnant to Christian simplicitie and the heauenly Scriptures The men of note and such as wrote against the Pope for this inordinate presumption were Marsilius Patauinus Iohannes Gandauus Andreas Laudensis Vlricus Haugenor Luitpoldus de Babenburg Dante 's Alligerius Occam Bergomensis Michael Caesenas Phi. What Recken you these The most of them were condemned by the Church of Rome for heretiks Theo. They were condemned by the Pope for speaking truth Marsilius booke is extant intituled The defender of peace What error can you charge him with but this that hee wrote against the insufferable pride and ambition of the Pope Dants error for the which he was condemned your friendes affirme to be this for that in his booke of the Monarchie he saide The Romane Empire had no dependance of the Pope in temporall things but only of God Occam the Minorite pursued that argument so farre that he brought the Popes power and his Prelates touching their tēporal dominiō to nothing These were their errors for y◠which the Church of Rome otherwise called the Pope and his Cardinals condemned these learned and innocent men With as good reason you might haue condemned christ and his Apostles for the same causes S. Paul auoucheth the one There is no power but of God and Christ himselfe commaunded the other Kings of nations beare temporall rule You shall not doe so Phi. They held other errors Theo. Euen such an other For this was against the state and pride of Prelates and that touched their cofers and treasures which indeede were their Goddes The Poore Franciscanes beganne to dispute that it was a signe of more perfection and a neerer resemblance to the life which Christ and his Apostles ledde on earth for clergie men to renounce the world and possesse nothing of their owne rather than to nestle themselues i◠the sweetest and richest seates of christendome and t◠heape vp mammon and wealth in such abundance that they were able not only to beard Princes in their Palaces but also shoulder them in the field The ground of their opinion they tooke from your canon Law and your holy father himselfe in erecting the Rule of Frier Frauncis could confesse as much mary when the Emperour in hatred of the Popes hauftines and greedines cast some fauour to the Franciscanes the Pope to match the Prince gaue forth an edict and made it heresie to say that Christ his Apostles possessed nothing in this world which because the Friers impugned in their schooles and sermons the Pope cōdemned them and all their aiders and abetters whereof Lodouike was one for heretikes This is that other heresie for the which Micheal Cesenas Occam and other Franciscanes and Lodouike the Emperour as a Patrone of theirs were impeached which Platina thinketh was scant aduisedly doone by the Pope and his counsellers Pope Iohn saith he set foorth a Decree wherein he declared them to be rebels to the Church of Rome heretikes which affirmed that Christ and his Disciples had nothing of their owne This decree doth scant accord with the sacred Scripture which testifieth in many places that Christ and his Disciples had nothing of their owne Thus your holy father to spite the prince and to reuenge such as opened their mouthes at his sumpteousnes and furiousnes made it heresie to commend humilitie and pouertie Philand That Christ and his Disciples did possesse nothing neither in priuate nor in common this was their error and not as you report it Theo. In deede it is worth the noting howe finely your Holie Father did circumuent them For where they ment that Christ and his Apostles lefte the worlde to follow their vocation and woulde after possesse nothing superfluous neither in priuate nor common but helde themselues satisfied with apparell and foode such as the goodnesse of GOD by the almes of other or by their owne industrie not slacking their function did prouide for them the Bishope of Rome hauing alreadie gotten a good part of the Empire into his hands and daily deuising newe quarels to get more and besides oppressing al Christian Realmes with intollerable taxes and paiments for the maintaining of his warres and furnishing of his other expences which were both needeles and excessiue and knowing by this vrging of christs and his Apostles pouertie which the friers began euerie where to publish how vnlike he should appeare to S. Peter whose successour hee would seem to be peruerted the wordes and sense of the poore friers as if they had taught that the diete and raiment which Christ and his Apostles vsed had not beene their own but wrongfully taken and vniustly withheld from others that were the right owners and with this shifte made it heresie and blasphemie to say that Christ had nothing of his own where the friers were neuer so madde to defend that Christ and his Apostles had no right nor proprietie to the clothes which they ware and meates which they vsed but they rather detested the monstruous wealth and riote of Monckes and Bishops which pretending to forsake the worlde and followe Christ heaped greater riches and wallowed in oftner pleasures than any secular persons which soare when the wretched friers began to touch they were condemned and burned for heretikes These were the principal grifes against Lodouike which the Pope and the Cardinals could neuer digest I meane his resisting their pride and misliking their wealth for these causes when he offered reconciliation and satisfaction that the Christian world might haue rest from those domesticall warres and miseries the Pope would receiue none but on these conditions that the Prince shoulde confesse him selfe guiltie of al those errors and heresies that were laide to his charge that he should resigne the Empire and not resume it without the Popes leaue that he should put himselfe his Children and his goods into the Popes hands to be done withal as should please the Pope Such was the mildnesse of this Romish Sainct that his hart could not be satisfied but with the vtter destruction of the Emperour and his children which when the Princes and Bishops of Germanie perceiued they signified their generall determination to Lodouicke in these wordes Most gratious Lord and Emperour the Princes electours and other the faithfull of your Empire perusing the articles of your submission which the Pope requireth and resteth on with one consent haue decreed them to be conceiued to the subuersion and ouerthrow of the Empire so that neither you nor they by reason of the
should bee worthier And for the execution of this sentence the Pope wrote to Philip the most mightie king of Fraunce that in the remission of all his sinnes hee should vndertake this matter and after the expulsion of king Iohn hee and his heires for euer should bee rightfull â— owners of the kingdom of England He wrote likewise to al the Nobles Captaines soldiers of diuerse Nations that they should crossigne themselues to the deposing of the king of England and following the king of Fraunce their leader in this viage reuenge the iniurie of the vniuersall church Thus your holy father set kinges togither by the eares for the remissâ—on of their sinnes and turned the warfare that was prouided against the Turke â—o pursue his priuate quarels with christian Princes like the Prince of darkenesse giueth kingdoms that bee none of his to them and their heires foreuer And your blessed Bishops of Canterburie London and Elie that first made sute at Rome to haue this impietie decreed against their Prince in their owne persons to shew their christian and obedient dispositions plied the king of France other Potentates to hasten them with al hostilitie towards this land and would needes be both the messengers and ringleaders in that action The next yeare Stephen of Canterburie William of London and Elias of Elie returned from the court of Rome gathering a Councel on the other side of the Sea solemnly published the iudgement that was giuen against the king of England in the presence of the French king and his Bishops and his clergie and communaltie That done they inioyned the king of France and all the rest on the behalfe of the Pope for the remission of their sinnes that they all ioyning togither shoulde inuade the Realme of England in hostile manner and thrust king Iohn from his throne and substitute a worthier by the Apostolike authoritie It was not enough for them vnnaturally to procure this pestilent inuasion against their prince but they themselues must assist it with all their might and be the chiefe doers in it least ages after them should be ignorant how zealous they were for their * backes and bellies against their lawful and soueraigne Magistrate Phi. Being deposed he was no Magistrate Theo. When you * proue the Pope may depose Princes then pronounce king Iohn no Magistrate till you so doe giue vs leaue to tell you that this was a cursed presumption in the Pope and a more cursed rebellion in the Bishops Phi. The Realme of France you see tooke the offer and thereby confessed the Pope might dispose Princes Theo. A kingdome will make men doe much The king of Fraunce was led thereto not with religion but with ambition to get the crowne of England for Lodouike his sonne Where you see the desire which Princes had to inlarge their dominions made them regard the Popes censures against their neighbours which otherwise in themselues they did mightily despise as appeareth by that which fel out not long after betweene Philip the Faire and Boniface the eight Where the king of Fraunce resolutely withstood the Pope with all his interdictions and depositions and vsed his person in the end very coursely as I before haue touched in place where vppon occasion Princes to serue their turnes and to be reuenged of their enimies haue oftentimes backed and inforced the Popes iudiciall sentence against others which corrupt affection to man the Popes processe when it made for their purpose god hath punished in them by making him their master whom for lucre they serued as long as they gained By the enuie and enmity of Princes one against an other not by the lawes of God or examples of Christs church hath the Pope gotten the mastery of all Princes and so long as they wil inuade ech other at his teasing they shall neuer be free from his yoke By their helpe he became of a Bishop vnder them to be a Prince with them and by their dissentions of a Prince with them he is now Lord ouer them Take king Iohn for a paterne Had not the French king in hatred of king Iohn and hope of the crowne bin willing to heare of this match and wagered his men and mony for that prize the king of England had easily forced the Pope to some reasonable order But nowe seeing the whole Realme of Fraunce was in armes against him and his owne Lande likely to bee diuided within it selfe what maruell if he accepted rather any conditions at the Popes hands thaÌ„ he would suffer strangers that gaped after his kingdom to deuoure it Phi. Hee did wisely to submit himselfe hee had otherwise lost both rule life Theo. The Pope did as wickedly not to content himselfe with the kings submission and restitution of all that was detained but with a fine deuise to circumuent both parts and to get the kingdom for himselfe and his successors which was promised before to the French king and his heires Such cunning your holy father hath to set others to beat the bushe whiles hee doeth catch the birdes The king of Fraunce was led in a string to muster his men to rigge his shippes to bestow aboue threescore thowsande poundes for the preparation of the warre and was tolde hee shoulde haue for his labour pardon of all his sinnes forsooth and the crowne of England to him and to his for euer without faile when al was in readinesse and they waited nothing now but the French kings comming to go with the armie the Popes Legate stepped ouer before and shewed king Iohn what a power was leuied against him and how many of his own Nobles had purposed to forsake him and wanne him rather to holde his kingdome in fee farme of the Bishop of Rome for an easie rent than to leaue it a pray to the French king his people who would egerly spoile him of al. Upon which aduise the king consented to receiue the Archbishop and the rest of the exiles in peace to restore that to them which hee had seased of their liuinges to his vse to resigne his Crowne into the Popes handes and to take it againe as his liege man Secundary for a thowsand marke sterling by the yeare This done the Legate sayled back sent home the Bishops discharged the armie prohibited the French king to proceede any farther for so much as the king of England was newely become a tenant to the church of Rome With this sleight the Pope caught the crowne of England neither as I thinke was there euer any kingdome purchased with lesse charge and more speede thaÌ„ this was by the Pope Philand If the King woulde resigne it why shoulde not the Pope receiue it And in my conceit it was safer for the King to fall into the Popes handes to be rented than into the French Kinges to be spoiled Theo. That conceit which you speake of made the King of England content to be
did whom you cal a blessed bishop for his labor your selues do worse For you be not cōtent to resist as he did by wilfull departing the Realm you take weapon in hand to depose the Prince terme it iust honorable warre to rebell against a lawfull Magistrate which impiety he did not declare in act though in heart perhaps he did not abhor it But omit that he ment and come to that hee did except you shew what one thing in those ancient lawes of the crowne to which the Archbishop had expresly sworne was repugnant to the word of God or office of a christian Prince we conclude your blessed Bishop and Canterburie Saint to be a shameful defender of wickednesse an open breaker of his oth and a proude impugner of the sword which God hath authorized as the Scripture teacheth And albeit wee like not the maner of his death that priuate men shoulde vse the sword which is deliuered vnto princes yet the cause for which he withstood the king was enormous impious dying in that though his death were violent he could be no martyr Phi. You be loth to haue him a martyr he was so far both frō your opinion in this point religion otherwise but yet he died in the defence of the Catholike church therefore we iustly count him blessed Theo. Hee died not in defence of the church he stoode stifly for the Popes pride and gaine and for the impunitie of malefactours among the Clergie which thinges no way touch the true lawes or liberties of Christes church And therefore you must either proue that clergie men are not subiect to the Princes sword for heinous offences which is most false and that appeales from all places must bee made to the Bishop of Rome which you shall neuer do or else it is euident that Thomas Becket deserued rather the reward of a traytor than the honour of a Martyr these two being the principall causes for which he resisted the king whiles hee liued and was canonized after he was murdered Phi. The church of Rome liked and allowed of his doings though you doe not Theo. She had good reason so to do He gaue his life for the maintenance of her wealth and ease and therefore if shee shoulde not esteeme him shee were to blame but this was no quarell for a christian Bishop to spend his blood in The due correction of offenders by the temporal sworde though they were clergie-men and diligent execution of iustice at home without running to Rome when either part was disposed to vexe the other were lawfull and wholesome preceptes of the kinges of this Realme and so long as the resistance made by the Archbishop against the king was sinfull and seditious consequently the state he stood in damnable though the death he suffered were wrongfull as not proceeding orderly from a magistrate but furiously inflicted by some that were offended to see a Bishop brest a king in so vile a cause Phi. The king himselfe in the end was driuen to order and penance Theo. It was easie for you when not only his neighbours but his owne son rose in armes against him to winne his consent to any thing By warres and inuasions of Realme vpon Realme by defection of subiects from their soueraignes by the rebellion of children against their parentes your cunning hath beene to driue Princes to order and keepe them in awe but that doth not iustifie your vnnaturall and vnchristian tumults to force them to your bent We dispute not whether of late you haue so done but whether of right you may so doe wee see the meanes which Antichrist hath vsed to aduance his kingdom but those we say be neither agreeable to the sacred scriptures nor to the course of Christs church in former ages they be late deuises practises of Popes to exalt themselues aboue the highest the iustice of God preparing that plague for the sinnes of men and dissention of Princes which should haue ioyned togither to succour his truth safegard his church by repressing the Popes pride driuing him to Christian integritie and modesty and would not Wherefore God gaue them ouer into his hands that he should tread on their necks play with their crownes as pleased himselfe and they thinke it some great honor and preferment to kisse his feete hold his bridle whiles he gets to horsebacke Phi. A number of the like examples mo we might recite of our Country of the christian world whereby not only the practise of the church in al ages may be seene but also catholike men warranted that they be no traitors nor hold assertions treasonable false or vndutiful in answering or beleeuing that for heresie or such like notorious wickednesse a Prince otherwise lawfull and annointed may be excommunicated deposed forsaken or resisted by the warrant of holy churches iudgement and censure Theo. From the conquest to King Henrie the eight there was no Prince of this Land deposed by the Pope but only King Iohn Deposition was offered to Philip the fourth and Lewes the twelfth Kinges of Fraunce but they were so farre from taking it that they withdrewe their whole Realme from the Popes obedience and ouerreached your holy Father with his owne practise Philip by the general consent of his Nobles and Bishoppes not onely despised the Popes sentence of depriuation against him but requited him with the like and to tame his pride tooke him prisoner and made him end his life for very griefe of hart within sixe weekes after Thus sayth Platina died Bonifacius hee that went about rather to strike a terrour into Emperours kings Princes and Nations than to plant religion in them and chalenged to giue and take kingdomes and to aduaunce and debase men at his plasure And so saith Gaguinus This ende of his life had Bonifacius the contemner of all men who not remembring the precepts of Christ tooke vpon him to dispose crownes and depriue kinges as hee sawe cause whereas hee supplieth his roome on earth whose kingdō is not of this world nor in earthly things but in heauenly and gate the Popedome by deceit and vngodly meanes and kept his predecessour in prison so long as he liued from whom he wrested that dignity This example you would not alleadge because you sawe the whole Realme of Fraunce stoode with Philip against Bonifacius that the Pope had no right to depose Princes Lewes the twelft in a Councel at Tours had the resolution of al the French Bishops that he might surcease from the Popes obedience and contemne his vniust censures and had not Maximilian somwhat slacked and Iulius in the meane time died the Pope himselfe had bin depriued of his triple crowne in the Councell of Pisa which was indicted by the Prelates of Germanie and Frāce at the instaunce and pursuite of Lodouike The Bishops of Nations assembled and decreed Iulius to be cited Vpon the
when ten yeares after his comming to the crown he was forced to send for direction to Huldath the Prophetesse not finding a man in Iudah that did or could vndertake the charge Phi. These were kinges of the olde Testament and they had the Lawe of God to guide them Theo. Then since christian Princes haue the same Scriptures which they had and also the Gospell of Christ and Apostolike writings to guide them which they had not why should they not in their kingdomes retaine the same power which you see the kings of Iudah had vsed to their immortall praise and ioy Phi. The christian Emperours euer called Councels before they would attempt any thing in Ecclesiasticall matters Theo. What councell had Constantine when with his Princely power he publikely receiued and setled christian religion throughout the world twentie yeares before the fathers met at Nice What councels had Iustinian for all those ecclesiasticall constitutions and orders which he decreed and I haue often repeated What councels had Charles for the church lawes and chapters which he proposed and inioyned as wel to the Pastors as to the people of his Empire Phil. They had instruction by some godly Bishops that were about them Theo. Conference with some Bishops suâ—h as they liked they might haue but councels for these causes they had none In 480. yeares after christian religion was established by christian Lawes I meane from Constantine the first to Constantine the seuenth there were very neere fourtie christian Emperours whose Lawes and actes for ecclesiasticall affaires were infinite and yet in all that time they neuer called but sixe generall Councels and those for the Godhead of the Sonne and the holy Ghost for the two distinct natures and willes in Christ All other pointes of christian doctrine and discipline they receiued established and maintained without ecumenicall councels vpon the priuate instruction of such Bishops and Clerkes as they fauored or trusted Theodosius as I shewed before made his owne choice what faith he would follow and had no man nor meanes to direct him vnto truth but his own prayers vnto God and priuate reading of those sundry confessions that were offered him And when neither Bishops nor Councels could get him to remoue the Arians from their churches Amphilochius alone with his witty behauior aunswere wan him to it For entering the Palace and finding Arcadius the eldest sonne of Theodosius lately designed Emperor and sitting with his father Amphilochius did his dutie to the father and made no account of his son that sate by him Theodosius thinking the Bishop had forgotten himselfe willed him to salute his sonne to whom the Bishoppe replied that which he had done to the father was sufficient for both Whereat when the Emperour began to rage to conâ—â—er the contempt of his sonne for his dishonour the wise Bishoppe inferred wiâ—h a loude voice Art thou so grieued O Emperour to see thy sonne neglected and so much out of pacience with those that reproach him Assure thy selfe then that almighty God hateth the blasphemers of his Sonne and is offended with them as with vngratefull wretches against their Sauiour and deliuerer Had you beene in the primatiue church of Christ you woulde haue gallantly disdained these and other examples of christian kings and Countries conuerted instructed somtimes by Marchaunts sometimes by women most times by the single perswasioÌ„ of one man without al legal means or iudicial proceedings the poore soules of very zeale imbracing the word of life wheÌ„ it was first offered them and neglecting your number of voices consent of Priestes competent courts as friuolous exceptioÌ„s against God dangerous lets to their saluation Frumentius a christian child taken prisoner in India the farther and brought at length by Gods good prouidence to beare some sway in the Realme in the nonage of the king carefully sought for such as were christians among the Romane Merchants and gaue them most free power to haue assemblies in euery place yeelding them whatsoeuer was requisite and exhorting them in sundry places to vse the christian praiers And within short time he built a Church brought it to passe that some of the Indians were instructed in the faith and ioyned with them The king of Iberia neere Pontus when he saw his wife restoared to health by the prayers of a christian captiue and himselfe deliuered out of the suddaine danger that he was in only by thinking and calling on Christ whom the captiue woman named so often to his wife sent for the woman and desired to learne the manner of her religion and promised after that neuer to worship any other God but Christ. The captiue woman taught him as much as a woman might admonished him to build a church and described the forme how it must be done Whereupon the king calling the people of the whole nation together told them what had befallen the Queene and him and taught them the faith and became as it were the Apostle of his nation though hee were not yet baptized The examples of England France other couÌ„tries are innumerable where kings coÌ„monwealths at the preaching of one man haue submitted themselues to the faith of Christ without councels or any Synodal or iudicial proceedings And therefore ech Prince people without these meanes haue lawful power to serue God Christ his Son notwithstanding twentie Bishops as in our case or if you will twentie thowsand Bishops should take exceptious to the Gospell of truth which is nothing else but to waxe mad against God by pretence of humane reason and order Phi. Their examples and yours are not like They receiued the same faith that the church of Christ professed you doe not Theo. They know not what the church of christ ment when they submitted themselues to the faith of Chriâ—â— they respected not the countenaunces of men but the promises of God when they first beleeued And were you not so wedded to the Popes tribunals decrees that you thinke the God of heauen shoulde not preuaile nor commaunde without your allowance you would remember that the church her selâ— was first collected and after increased by Christes Apostles maugre the councelles of Priestes and Courtes of Princes that derided the basenesse and accused the boldnesse of such as would preach Christ without their permission Phi. The Apostles had a iust and lawfull defence for their doinges Theo. What was it Phi. We ought rather to obey God than men Theo. Was that authoritie sufficient for them to withstand the Synodes of Priestes and swordes of Princes Phi. Most sufficient Theo. And the truth of God chaungeth not neither doth his right to commaund against the powers and lawes of al mortal men decay at any time Phi. By no means Theo. Then this must only be the question betwixt vs whether the Prince or the Prelates stoode for that which God commaundeth If the
the great learned and generall councell of Laterane Cap. 3. de haeret This was the next way to make all safe on their side Platin. in Innocent 3.800 Hungrie friers brought into the councell to ouerrule the Bishops A fine stratageme of the Pope to set out thinges consulted as if they had bin concluded Platina in vita Innocentij 3. Nothing concluded in the Councel of Lateran THE DEFENCE OF ENGLISH CATHOLIKES Cap. 4. Matth. 19. By Gods lawe you may not resist much lesse displace the Prince The woord of God binding you to obedience neither Pope nor couÌ„cel can assoile you from it This is it which Master Allen professeth to prooue in the 5. chap. of his DefeÌ„ce What subiection honor God alloweth vnto Princes 1. Peter 2. Rom. 13. Prouerb 8. * Wisdom 6. * Rom. 13. 1. Peter 2. Prouer. 24. We may not dishonor princes in word deede or thought Exod. 22. * Eccle. 10. Rom. 13. 1. Pet. 2. Iudgement threatned chiefly to theÌ„ that despise Magistrates 2. Pet. 2. Iude. Rom. 13. Luk. 20. Honor subiection tribute by Gods law due to Princes By the Iesuits doctrine Caesar shal haue that which God alloweth him so long as pleaseth the Pope You may not resist them or despise them ergo much lesse displace them Iohn 8. Deposition is an authentike rebellion vnder the Popes scale The defence of English catholikes cap. 5. 1. Reg. 10.15.16 Saul deposed for vsurping spirituall function 1. Reg. 22. The Prophets denounced both the temporall eternall iudgementes of God but they inflicted neither By these exaÌ„ples Priestes may kill men set their houses on fire or pull out their eyes as wel as displace Princes if the Iesuites collections bee good The Popes commission to depose Princes they promised to proue by scripture nowe vainly suppose it without Scripture Samuel Elias and Elizeus had speciall extraordinary commaundement from God to doe as they did The Pope may not doe that which the Prophetes did till hee haue the same precept which they had To put down kings is an honour specially reserued vnto God him selfe Luc. 1. Dan. 2. Dan. 4. The Pope will depose Princes as well as God The example of Saul God prescribed Samuel what he shuld say to Saul ful sore for against the will of Samuel 1. Kings 16. All Israell and Dauid obeied and honoured Saul as the Lords annointed to his dying day The defence Cap. 5. Aug. contra Adamant 1. Kings 24. 1. Kings 24. 1. Kings 26. 2. Kings 1. Ibidem Cap. 17. 1. Kings 26. Dauid confesseth he might not kill Saul without sinne Contra Adimantum ca. 17. The words be grounded rather on Adimantus assertion than S. Austens perswasion S. Aug. speaketh not of Sauls deposition but of reuenge permitted by Moses law which the Maniches did obiect Adimantus antecedent returned on his own head Aug. Centra lit Petilian lib. 2. cap. 48. S. Aug. holdeth that Saul had the holinesse of his princely inunction to the houre of his death Dauid put himselfe in armes to saue his life not to seeke the Crowne Saul reiected from hauing the kingdome to him his seede * 1. Kings 15. The children of Israell required a king after the maner of other Nations that is a setled succession in the kingdom 1. Reg. 13. * To thee and thine for euer 1. Kings 15. Aug. de ciuit Dei li. 17. ca. 7. S. Augustine expoundeth Saules reiection as we do * The Scripture is cleare for the same sense 1. Kings 16. Dauid aduanced when hee was but a boy keeping sheep Dauid neuer claimed the Crowne from Saul 1. Kinges 20. The Priestes protested that Dauid was a faithfull seruant to Saul 1. King 22. All Israel alleadged Samuels fact that Dauid ought to succeede 2. Kings 5. 1. Chron. 11. God annointed such as should succeede The Defence cap. 5. 3. Reg. 13.14 The example of Ieroboam a wicked schismatik denouÌ„ced by a priest Prophets may threaten wicked Princes in Gods name but not depriue them of their crownes The Prophet that cried out against Ieroboams Altar spake not a worde of his schisme It is easie for any side to applie figures as thy list Reuel 17. Reuel 19. Gods threatning IeroboaÌ„ is nothing to the doposing of Princes by priestes * 3. Kinges 14. The Defence cap. 5. The example of proud Ozias that would take vnto him the authoritie of priests Vzziah strikeÌ„ with a leprosie but not deposed The high Priest withstood the king with wordes not with weapons The Iesuites delight in martial terms * 2. Chron. 26. De verbis Esai Vidi DominuÌ„ The Iesuits gather coÌ„clusioÌ„s cleane against the Scriptures and their own canons * Caus. 23. quaest 8. ¶ 1. * Ibidem ¶ 2. * Ibidem ¶ 3. * Ibidem ¶ Clerici * Ibidem ¶ quicunque Ibidem dict ¶ quicunque § hijs ita * 1. Tim. 3. 2. Tim. 2. Tit. 1. * 2. Cor. 10. * Mat. 24. The Princes person no Priest may violate or so much as touch Psal. 105. 1. Kings 24. They might not vse violence what needed any when the King hastned of himselfe to goe forth * 2. Chro. 26. * 2. Chro. 26. 4. Kings 15. 2. Chron. 26. 4. King 15. Oziah was king of Iudah to the day of his death The Priestes were to discerne lepers but the Magistrate to see them kept apart from others Numb 5. The leprosie of the soule no cause of depriuation vnto Princes In Luc. lib. 5. de leproso mundato Chrysost. in Mat hom 16. oper imperfect hom 10. To beare the sword in matters of religioÌ„ is the Princes and not the priests charge The defence cap. 5. 4. Reg. 11. The example of the deposition death of Queene Athalia by Ioida the hie-Priest Athalia an vsurper and slaine by the Kings authoritie Ioidaes warrant to commaund Athalia to be put to death in the Kings name 2. Chrâ— 23. 4. Kings 11. The defence cap. 5. 3. Reg. 18.19 The executioÌ„ done by Elias the Prophet vpon many with deposition of Princes 4. Reg. 1. 3. Reg. 19. 4. Reg. 9. Elias zeale 3. Kings 18. Elias caused the Prophets of Baal to be slaine by the publike authoritie of the King and his people Elias was a Prophet and not an executioner How Elias gate Achab the whole Realm to decree the slaughter of Baals prophets * 3. Kings 17. Vers. 1. * 3. Kings 18. Vers. 23. Vers. 24. Vers. 1. Vers. 24. Vers. 39. Vers. 40. Vers. 24. The King and the people consented to Elias offer Vers. 20. Vers. 24. 3. Kings 19. Elias is said in the Scripture to haue doon the deede because he was the procurer and author of it Acts. 7. Iosu. 10. 3. Kings 14. God sent â—er from heauen not Elias Luke 9. * Exod. 12. * Iudges 16. * 4. Kings 2. THE DEFENCE OF ENGLISH CATHOLIKES The annointing of Hazael 4. Kings 8. Iehu willed by God to take the sword and root out Achabs house 4. Kings 9. Ibidem vers