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A36769 An argument delivered by Patrick Darcy, esquire by the expresse order of the House of Commons in the Parliament of Ireland, 9 iunii, 1641. Darcy, Patrick, 1598-1668. 1643 (1643) Wing D246; ESTC R17661 61,284 146

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proofe or apparant circumstances may be pressed upon any tryall and for discovering of their fellowes abetors or relievers as the circumstances may offer themselves in their examinations especially if before they confesse themselves guiltie of the offence in imitation of the approver at the Common-law whereof no certaine rule may be given And it neede not be made a question here whether the Iurors or Iudges ought to be Iudges of the matter of fact it being positively layd downe in the sixteenth question that they are And though their false verdict doth convince or not convince the prisoner yet they may be questioned and punished for a false verdict as in their answer to the sixteenth is already declared 21. To the twentie one they say that that question is now judicially depending and hath beene already solemnely argued in his Majesties Court of VVardes in which Court their assistance for declaration of the law therein is already required And therefore they humbly desire they may not be compelled to give any opinion touching that point untill it be resolved there 22. To the twentie two they say that they doe conceive that there is no matter of Law contayned in the said question yet for the further satisfaction of your Lordships they say that upon view of an Act of state bearing Date at his Majesties Castle of Dublin the twenty fourth of December 1636. grounded upon his Majesties Letters of the fift of Iuly then last past it appeared unto them that foure shillings in the pound as of his Majesties free gift and reward out of the first payment of the increase of rent reserved to his Majestie was allowed to the Iudges that were Commissioners and attended that service And we humbly conceive that the receiving of that foure shillings in the pound of his Majesties bountie stands well with the integrity of a Iudge and those Iudges did informe them that they did not avoyde any Letters-Patents upon the Commission of Defective Titles but received such to compound as submitted for the strengthning of their defective Patents and Titles and such as would stand upon the validity of their grants were left to the tryall at law And that the Compositions made after the said grants of the foure shillings in the pound were made according to rules and rates agreed upon by all the Commissioners before his Majesties said Letters or the said Act of State and not otherwise George Shurley Hu. Cressy VVilliam Hilton Edw. Bolton Iames Barry Sa. Mayars Iam. Donellan Copia vera Extract per Phil Percivall Mr DARCIES REPLY TO THE ANSWER OF THE IVDGES MY LORDS His Majesties most humble and faithfull subjects the Knights Citizens and Burgesses in Parliament assembled representing the whole Commons of this Realme calling to mind the late invasion made upon the Lawes and just rights have heretofore presented unto the Lords House certaine questions of great weight and moment to the end their Lordships might thereunto require the answer of the Iudges in writing which being long sithence accordingly commaunded by their Lordships the Iudges have of late delivered in a writing to the Lords House by them styled an Answer unto the said Questions which being sent to the Commons house to be taken into consideration and the same all the partes thereof being weighed in the ballance of the grave judgement and knowledge of the said house of Commons the said answer was upon question voted to be minus pondus habens and not to merit the name of an answer This my Lords being the occasion of this conference the house of Commons appointed me a feeble Organ to utter part of their sense of the style and manner of this writing and to declare part of those reasons which satisfied their judgements that the said writing was short and insufficient o utinam that were all My Lords the Iudges had divers Moneths time to answer plaine questions plaine I speake of those who would be plaine the house of Commons a few dayes onely to consider of that intricate writing My powers are weake and the infirmities of my body are visible both in part occasioned by an high hand I should therefore faint under the weight of this burden but that the taske is not great I doe represent to your Lordships by way of rehearseall onely some partes of those reasons and authorities which were gathered and ripened to my hands by the house of Commons My Lords in matters of importance the course hath beene ancient and not yet deserted to begin with Prologues or Exordiums the worke is not mine I will onely In nomine sanctissimae Trinitatis make my entrance upon the matter of this Conference which is a generall concernment a great concernment of the whole kingdome And to that purpose I will declare the causes and reasons which moved or rather inforced the house of Commons for to disgest and propound the said Questions and to make it appeare that none of them is Idea Platonica none of them circumventing and all depending now or of late To mantayne the preamble to Questions viz. That this Nation ought to bee governed by the common-Common-lawes of England that the great Charter and many other beneficiall statutes of England are here of force by reasoning or argumentation were to alter a foundation layd 460. yeares past and to shake a stately building thereon erected by the providence and industrie of all the ensuing times and ages This is so unanswerable a truth and a principle so cleere that it proveth all it needeth not to be proved or reasoned Reasons why the Questions were propounded The reason for the first was the late introduction of an arbitrary government in many cases by some Ministers of estate contrary to the lawes and statutes aforesaid a government contrary to the just freedome property of his Majesties people in their lives estates and liberties whereas the subjects governed by the lawes of England are and ought to be free subjects the late disuse therefore of those lawes in execution and the measure of justice being squared by the Lesbian line of uncertaintie as contrary to the lawes aforesaid as any oppositum is in objecto produced the first question and I hope not improperly The reason for the second in part ariseth out of the Oath of a Iudge 18. Edw. 3. to be found among the Printed statutes Polton fol. 144. and out of the statutes of 20. Edw. 3. cap. 1. 2. 3. Polton fol. 145. This Oath is comprehensive and extends to the Iudges the Barons of the Exchequer and Iustices of Gaole-delivery and their associats This great and sacred Oath contaynes severall branches First well lawfully to serve the King his people in the Office of a Iustice Secondly not to Counsell or consent unto any thing tending to the Kings damage or disinherison Thirdly to warne the King of his damage when hee knowes it Fourthly to doe equall Iustice to rich and poore c. without respect of persons Fiftly
manifest that by their Oathes they are bound to interprete the lawes truely betweene the King and his people and betweene partie and partie and if in any Case granted it cannot be denyed when the Common-wealth desires a Declaration of the law in certaine points wherein they conceive their just liberties to have beene invaded least under colour of prerogative which the Parliament holds to be sacred some ministers may presume as of late they have endevored to destroy the peoples just liberties In the ordinarie Courts of Iustice the Iudges upon Oath are bound to afford the subject Iustice against the King and all others and are appointed by his Majesty for that purpose all writs are in his Majesties name in the Kings bench the pleas are styled Coram Rege Letters-patents and writs originall are Teste me ipso the King is therefore present in Parliament being the highest tribunall where in truely he sits in the exaltation of Royaltie and greatnesse Therefore the Commands of all his ordinary Courts are the commands of the King much more Commands in Parliament where his presence is more apparant and essentiall then in all other Courts of this kingdome It appeares copiously by the great Charter and by constant practise of all Parliaments since that time that all Courts and Iudges were regulated by Parliaments as for the Kings prerogative or revenue the Iudges cannot bee ignorant but the Parliament is and ever hath beene the best mantayner of his just prerogatives the best overseer of his revenue which if it fall short they onely are able and willing to supply It is true that the abuses of former times might be reformed for the future by Bils to bee past as statutes Yet that is away about and we may not loose the possession of our lawes and just liberties nor by new statutes admitt impunitie or give countenance to past offences statutes of this kind sufficient were already enacted and passed in former ages The declaration of a knowne law and the manifestation of wholesome statutes already established well may helpe the Common-wealth for the present but cannot in any probabilitie fall out hereafter to be prejudiciall to the state or Commonwealth and there is no president or example of any such prejudice It is confessed that most of the matters contayned in the Questions are alreadie voted for grievances in both houses and that very justly but how the law is therein remaynes yet to be declared as to this present Parliament which I hope in due time shall bee declared according to law and justice as in many Parliaments before the same or the like hath beene often done Where they doe againe insist upon the want of president and withall that in the preamble to the Questions the protestation cleares the law This word President strikes close unto us I have answered it before by presidents yet some more presidents I will offer as often as they speake the word president 7. 8. Elizabeth Dy. fol. 241. b. placit. 49. The Kings Atturney demanded the opinion of the Iudges 9. Elizab. Dy. 261. placit. 28 Casus Hiber where the Iudges of England signed their opinions to questions propounded by the Iudges of Ireland 11. Eliz. Dy. fol. 282. b plac 26. Casus Hiber 19. 20. Elizab. Dy. 360. The Case of arraignement of a Peere the like 13. Càroli by all the Iudges of England the Earle of Ormonds Case and yet in none of these Cases the matter was depending before them Notwithstanding the protestation may cleare the law yet in all precedent ages lawes cleare in themselves for their greater honor and countenance they have beene declared and enacted in Parliament The Law declared by Magna Charta was cleare before yet it was enacted 9. Henr. 3. and in thirty Parliaments since Cooke 8. 19. b. Primes Case the statute of praerog Regis And the statute of 25. Edw. 3. of treasons is declarative and so are many other statutes Adam eate the forbidden fruite Cain killed his brother God demaunded whether this was done yet he could not be ignorant of the fact The first article in the Civill and Canon law Courts is whether there is such a law all this is done for illustrations sake My Lords The ground of the Questions and the preamble to the writing styled an Answer kept me so long that I feare much to have trespassed upon your patience and yet the importance of the cause urgeth me to importune your Lordships favour a little further This Question is short and yet comprehensive that we are a free people is confessed to my hands to that part of the answer I doe not except the second part of the Question is whether wee are to be governed by the lawes of England and statutes of force in Ireland onely First though I need not prove it yet it is cleare we ought to bee so governed Matth. Paris historia maiori fol 121. Sir Iohn Davis discovery of Ireland fol. 100. King Henry the second held a Parliament at Lismore in Ireland in which Parliament Leges consuetudines Angliae fuerunt gratanter acceptae by the representative body of this whole Nation Magna Charta and other beneficiall statutes of England are here in the red Booke of the Exchequer in and since King Iohns time and so is Gervasius Tilberiensis of the Course and Officers of the Exchequer in the white booke of the Exchequer of Ireland leges consuetudines Angliae received in Ireland by Parliament otherwise this appeares 9. Iohn pat membr. 2. 1. Henr. 3. pat memb. 13. 10. Hen. 3. pat membr. 4. 12. Henr. 3. claus. membr. 8. by which words and by the constant practise of all ages since this kingdome was governed and ought to be so by the law of England as the law of the land which law as it was alwayes here received consists of three parts First the Common-law Secondly the generall customes of England Thirdly statutes here received The Common-law that is cleared already Customes as Tenant by the Curtesie Inne-keepers to be responsible for things within their houses or the like when we speake of a Custome in the law it must be intended a generall Custome over the Realme and no particular Custome And this appeares by the yeare bookes of 37. Henr. 6. fol. 5. 21. Henr. 7. 17. 18. Particular customes as Gavelki●d Boreugh English-tenant right or the like are not to be intended when wee speake generally of Custome and these Customes are warranted by the Common-law of England being not contrary to the same but praeter legem so there may bee and are particular customes here praeter legem and yet not contrary to law as in many Corporations and Countries so the wives third of goods is good in England by the custome of many counties and places F. N. B. 122. 7. Edward 4. 21. 40. Edw. 3. 38. 17. Edw 2. f. detinue 58. Therefore it is not contrary to law that such a