we wish you may do we cite you before his Tribunall to answer for it But 2. Sir we are content also to stand at the Barre of any impartiall judicious Divines in the Christian World and that they give their judgement by that same much which I who pretends not to be one of the Learned Men in this Land have Answered to your preceeding Discourse if your Doctrine be such as we are not able to disprove and if we do not upon some good grounds of reason and not out of a meer spirit of contradiction oppose the same And thus I shall leave your invective without saying any more to it we have not learned Christ so as to repay evill with evill bitternesse with bitternesse you have cursed us we blesse you we wish you heartily a blessing Repentance and forgivennesse of this evill thought of your heart and the uncharitable issue of it SECTION VIII Mr. Lockyers Objections he maketh to himself and his Answers thereto considered section 1 MR. Lockier having discharged that bitter foregoing invective against the opposers of his way comes to propound and answer some Objections against himself choised out and formed at his own pleasure Five in number whereof two only are in causâ Were there no other Arguments worthy of his consideration besides these to be found in Orthodox Writers opposite to his way If he thinks not it will seem he hes not read such Writers on this purpose as he might and ought for clearing of himself and others If he knew others why did he not assay to clear them also I think he had not will to present before his hearers all Arguments brought against his Doctrine least he should not ridde his feet well of them and something thereof might have stuck to such as was judicious Whatsoever hes moved him so to passe them over we hope it shall shortly appear he had some cause rather to passe them in silence then to hazard grappling with them it was his prudence so to do But let 's see these he hath and his answers to them section 2 Obj. 1. Why But they gather Churches out of Churches whom you plead for Why I thought the Dispute hitherto ye have been on was not about persons and their practises but about a dogmatick point Had we been propounding Objections to you we should not troubled our selves with these extrinsecall ones taken from prejudices against persons abaters of your Doctrine But should more directly pointed at the throat of the cause it self Yet we think all Godly Orthodox men in the Christian World besides your selves will judge that the Godly Ministers of Christ in this Iland have just cause to lay this practice of picking out of Orthodox Churches in which Jesus Christ is soundly Taught Sacraments administred according to their institution and are by the most judicious of your own way confessed to be true Churches from which it is not lawfull to make separation such Professours as by Gods blessing upon his Ordinances in these Churches have gotten most good to make up of them Churches to your selves All Orthodox Christians will judge this justly laid to your charge as a Schismatick practice having no warrand or president in the Word of God tending to the begetting of heart-burnings divisions hatred amongst Christians yea these of nearest relations Husband and Wife Parents and Children Magistrats and People to the hindring and no wayes to the promoving of the Work of Reformation But see what is said to this section 3 Nay it is but Churches out of a Church Gospel Churches out of a legall Nationall Church and the one being abolished there may be yea there ought to be a departing from it and a gathering out of it unto the order which God hath instituted so we finde Churches gathered out of that Church of the Jews Gal. 1. 22. And whether he meaneth by being in Christ meerly according to profession see 1 Thes 2. 14. Ans 1. The citation of the 1 Thes 2. 14. for clearing what is meant by being in Christ mentioned Gal. 1. 22. is a digression from the purpose of the Objection and hath been sufficiently answered before 2. You gather Churches say you out of a Church not out of Churches This is strange are not the Church of Edinburgh and the Church of Aberdene Churches Again if it be a fault to gather Churches out of Churches shall it be no fault to gather Churches out of a Church majus minus non variant speciem Ay 't is a legall Nationall Church he meaneth such as the Jewish such a Church is abolished therefore 't is no fault yea we ought to gather c. For Answer We may consider a Nationall or Provinciall Church of a threefold sort and notion 1. Wherein all of the Nation are bound to a publick and solemn typicall service and Worship to be performed in one place chosen by God under the inspection of one Visible Pastor or Priest who in Worship and Sacrifices doth hold forth and represent the whole People of the Nation 2. Such a Nationall and Provinciall Church in which many particular Churches are united and subjected unto one Church as they call it Mother or Cathedrall Church and depend upon a Visible Pastor who is Pastor and Ruler of all other Pastors and particular Churches in the Nation or Province And wherein the Inferiour Churches enjoy Divine Ordinances and Ecclesiasticall power and jurisdiction of that Mother and Cathedrall Church or that Provinciall or Nationall Pastor 3. Such a Nationall Church wherein many particular Churches are joyned and united together under one Visible Church-Government wherein all are equally and collaterally concerned and have equall interest for the use and exercise of all these Ordinances which are necessary to the Visible Ministeriall Government of these Churches and mutuall Ecclesiasticall fellowship in it and edification and preservation by it Now a Nationall Church in the second notion is not nor ever was an Ordinance of God but a meer invention of men and Antichristian tyrannie overthrowing the power granted by GOD to the Churches and Pastors A nationall Church of the first notion and sense was indeed an Ordinance of God Such were the Jews but instituted and to continue for a definite time viz. untill the fulnesse of time should come and then it was abolished and evanished And a Church Nationall in this sense was legall But a Nationall Church in the third sense is not a legall or typicall Church and Ordinance But moralis perpetui juris Such was the Jewish under the Old Testament in point of Government and Ecclesiastick Discipline They were many particular Churches and Synagogues â—hich did in diverse places celebrat the Morall Worship of God and the exercises of Doctrine Discipline and Church-Government Acts 15. 21. Acts 13. 15 16. Luke 21. 12. John 12. 42. All which were joyned and united under one Nationall Visible Ecclesiastick Government This Visible Church-ship so to speak of the Church of the Jews as
Author to the Hebrews saith and made Jews inwardly a holy Nation according to inward call and choise and so a spirituall Priesthood section 11 Answ 1. Here again we are to mark the Conclusion that Mr. Lockier would be at touching the mater of the Visible Church such as are all indeed from above as have indeed an internall consecration the Law given into the mind made Jews inwardly an holy Nation according to inward choise and call Here indeed is an Anabaptisticall model of the Visible Church all reall saints and not in the judgement of charity only Mr Lockiers so far as spirituall men can judge as it is wholly left out by himself so it cannot well be admitted to have any place here 1. Because he saith they are all indeed from above and have indeed an internall consecration that indeed I think to every mans apprehension noteth veritatem rei in se or judicio veritatis as they call it as contradistinguished a judicio charitatis of spirituall men 2. Because that place Heb. 8. 10. cited from Jer. 31. 33. brought in by him for confirmation of his purpose he is speaking of of the impertinency whereof to the purpose in hand I mean the constitution of the Visible Church we shall speak presently speaketh of truth and reality of grace in the heart I may say in the very judgement of God himself under which there is no possibility of mistake But to the grounds he goeth upon from this Text. 2. He taketh for granted that this whole Chapter is taken up to shew the state of the Visible Church in its constitution as such and that it is the Spirits intention in the vision set down in it to give unto John a patern thereof to be a rule to him and others then and succeeding ages for regulating the constitution of it and particularly in the point of Church-members but why did he not assay some proofe of this Must we take every thing upon his bare assertion 'T is true Learned Brightman in his commentary conceiveth that this vision containeth a common Type of the holy Church in all ages But 1. In all the progresse of his commentarie on that Chapter I find not any evident passage pointing at any particular in the vision as a patern type or rule concerning the qualification of such as are to be admitted in the external fellowship of the Visible Church as the homogeneall parts of the outward visible body 2. Though I will not stay here to examine the intent of all the particulars in that vision and though I esteem much of the judgement of that learned and pious man yet in the generall I must say I find no convincing argument nor much appearance of any argument at all brought by him to prove that the intent of the vision was to give John a patern a certain portraicture or resemblance of the Church whereby we might know which is she Yea albeit I confesse sundry particulars in the vision are things of the Church in the Interpretation whereof I would not much disagree from Brightman yet I think he is mistaken in taking that for the generall intent and purpose of the vision and conceives that John being now to receive a new Propheticall Revelation concerning these things that were to come to passe in and upon the Church from that time to the end of the World ver 1. fin The intention of the vision of this Chapter is to describe and set forth the Glory and Majesty of God the Father the first Author of the Prophesie as in the next Chapter is described the Son the Mediatour and subordinate Author thereof as it is ordinary when the Lord is to communicate to his Prophets and by them to the Church Propheticall Revelations of great things to come to passe concerning the Church to present by way of preparation some glorious representation of himself as we may see Esay 6. and Ezek. 1. See these words of the learned and judicious Gomarus upon that Chapter on the Margin * Sequitur to wit from v. 2. descriptio Authoris Coelestis partim ratione visaeillius Majestatis partim praeceptae honorationis ejusdem Cujus descriptionis scopus est primum commendatio apocalypseos ex Authore Caelesti deinde Ecclesiae in fide timore Dei ac patientia confirmatio ex Majestate honoratione illius promanante Quae describuntur opportune nam revelandum est hoc libro mysterium status Ecclesiae afflictissimae c. so Gomar And certainly had it been the purpose of the Spirit by this vision to hold forth a patern portraicture and resemblance of the true Church common to all ages least because of troubles and disturbances we should either think it utterly extinguished or at least through ignorance of her right form and figure we should be lesse able to know which is she as Mr. Brightman saith it seemeth the wisedom of the Spirit of God would have portraicted the figure and form of the Church in these things that are most substantiall in the constitution of it so as Christians of ordinary capacitie might been able to discern take up the true Church by but Mr. Brightman himself is even troubled to find what things are meant by every particular in the vision And in some he bringeth but meer conjectures yea and likely is mistaken as could we stay might be very probably shown as for example in his Exposition of the sea of Glasse like Christall before the Throne 3. But what is the particular in the vision from which Mr. Lockier deduceth his conclusions this viz. that it was in Heaven he saw it a door was opened in Heaven and the Throne was set in Heaven this saith he was to shadow that the worshippers should be indeed from above c. and to make it the stronger it is confirmed by a comparison of what was done with Moses Moses had his patern upon the Mount nigh Heaven c. Answ 1. Here is a thing begged for a ground that as Moses was taken up to the Mount to get a patern of these things which he was to appoint in the ancient Church so Iohn is here taken up to get a patern of the Visible Church and the things to be ordered in it under the New Test This I say is groundlesly supposed For these things that were to be done by Moses were but now a instituting and to be first set up and therefore it was necessary that he should have a patern of them represented to him to regulate him but ere the time of this revelation Christ had fully instituted all particulars belonging to the Church of the New Testament and many Churches through the World were already actually setled and ordered according to that institution and beside sundry of the Books of the New Test written wherein the institution and rule was already plainly written down and this indeed is one reason which inclineth me to think that the scope and intention of the Spirit
it was not legall I mean ceremonially nor typicall so neither was it ever abolished Let Mr. Lookier shew me a Text in the whole New Testament importing an abrogation of it Nay we trust through the Lords grace ere we come to an end to give evidence from the Word of God that there is a Church Visible under the New Testament of a larger extent and bounds I mean in point of Government then a Province or Nation even a Visible Church Universall Therefore I conclude that we maintaining a Nationall Church in no other sense then this which is still warranted and allowed in the New Testament it is nothing else but grosse Separatisme to gather Churches out of Churches upon this account because they are united into one Nationall Church in this sense As to that alledged by Mr. Lockier of gathering Churches out of that one Church of the Jews which he would confirm by Gal. 1. 22. I Ans The alledgeance is grossely impertinent for why We are now upon the practice of gathering and constituting Churches in a new Visible Church-state of persons withdrawn from Churches wherein is the sound Doctrine of the faith of Christ and pure Sacraments according to their institution such as the most judicious and Godly amongst the Independent Brethren themselves confesse to be true Churches upon this account because they are united into one Nationall Church in point of Government But now will Mr. Lockier say that the Christian Churches of the Jews were gathered out of the Jews upon this account because they were a Nationall Church in this sense He cannot upon any warrand in the world The ground of their gathering out from the rest of the Jews was because the rest would not beleeve Jesus to be the Messiah nor imbrace him as their Saviour But would still adhere to their ceremoniall Worship Sacrifices and Priesthood and would be saved by their own righteousnesse blaspheming Christ and his Doctrine section 4 The second objection he propoundetâ— to himself is this Those men are full of Heresies and dangerous opinions that follow this way many monsters came out of your Independent Churches therefore surely 't is not of God c. I must say again Mr. Lockier doth prudently to make choise of such arguments against himself to answer as are little to the purpose in hand I think no understanding adversary would have moved this as an objection against his Doctrine handled in this Lecture concerning the matter of the Visible Church But I think indeed being well managed it may be made use of to good purpose against their Independent Churches in point of their Government thus The Government that is apt to open a door to Errors seemeth cannot be of God But such is the Independent way of Church Government Which makes every particular Congregation Independent and supreme in Government so that if any of them fall into Error there is no Ecclesiastick Power on earth that authoritatively can interpose to redresse wherein they go wrong And certaine it is by this occasion many Errours have sprung up amongst them that follow this way And for this very cause it is that so many maintainers of grosse Errours as Anabaptists Antinomians c. lay hold on this way of Government as most suitable to their designes and serviceable for their safetie and indemnitie And here I shall desire Mr. Lockier to remember how that Reverend Mr. Brightman parallelling the Churches of Geneva France Low-countries and Scotland put the speciall point of their commendation on the nature and way of their Government viz. Presbyteriall whereby they have more then any Reformed Churches preserved themselves in Unity and Truth free of Schismes and Heresies But we will have place afterward to speak of this point of Government It seemeth to me very likely that M â— Lockier hath drawn in this objection in this place namely upon a design against a Person as we shall see apparent ground even now in his answer section 5 Answ 1. All is not true that is said of Congregationall Churches and their friends it hath been an old wyle of the Devil Nay I know all is not true which is Printed of Persons honouring and loving Churches of such a constitution witnesse Master Edwards Gangren nay Master Rutherfurds Spirituall Antichrist pag. 250 251. The Lord Generall Cromwell is charged with publick scandall and unsoundnesse in the Faith because of a letter to the Parliament then having set down a part of that letter out of Mr. Rutherfurd what Heresie sayeth he is in this letter I know not and then applyes to Master Rutherfurd his constructing of that letter Psal 56. 5. and that of Solomon Pro. surely the wringing of the nose bringeth forth blood Then cites another speach of Master Rutherfurds Spirit Antich pag. 251. viz. to my knowledge there 's not this day in England any that is a meer Independent which maintaineth nothing but Independencie with most of those of New England and doeth not hold other unsound and corrupt Tenets c. and sayeth this maketh him tremble when he remembreth from whom it cometh Surely there be many Independents in England to whom he is a stranger And how then should he dare to speak of them all as he doeth Especially this makes him tremble comparing with what Master Rutherfurd hath in his Epistle if I lift up my hand or a bloody pen c. Answ 1. 'T is a poor and sory Vindication all is not true that is said yea or Printed of Congregational Churches and of their friends That is not the thing you are charged with in the Objection even as formed by your self that all is true c. if a great part or most part of these things â—e true the charge abideth good And true it is that more Monsters of dangerous opinions in matters of Religion have come from Independent Churches and the friends thereof and have had their recourse to that way of Government within those few years by past then I believe has arisen in all the Reformed Churches in Christendome since the beginning of Reformation As for your bringing M â— Rutherfurd upon the stage upon the account of that Letter you will do well Mr. Lockier to enter into your own heart and consider from what designe and intention this hath proceeded 'T is very apparent it has come from little purpose or intention to clear that Letter in the things charged upon it Seeing you have not so much as hinted at the clearing of one animadversion on it But thought it enough to say you know not what is amisse in it and to bid the world judge of it Give me leave to say it of Mr. Lockier If Generall Cromwels Souldiers defended him not better with the Sword then you do here with your pen it were not very safe for him to go to the fields Well I will not determine upon your intentions But if the intention of the work of this businesse looketh not towards stirring up of persecution against the Godly
say much sand without lyme 1. The Gentiles of whose Conversion Act. 15. 3. speaks were of many more places besides Antioch Now suppose all here alledged were granted what evidence can Mr. Lockier give us that Paul and Barnabas or any such other persons competentlie able to judge had stayed as long in every one of these other places 2. But to hold our selves to this Church of Antioch I confesse indeed it were dangerous universally to say that these first Christians at Antioch had not I say not only as Mr. Lockier hath it as far as able men could apprehend but in very deed both name and thing i. e. gracious heart-Christianity But I see it not so very dangerous to say that not all and every one of them had so much Nay I think it very dangerous positively to say they had for 't is clearly contrary to what the Scripture speaketh of the effect and successe of the Preaching of the Gospel and to many passages of this very Story of the Acts. 3. True Paul and Barnabas were discerning men able to give a good judgement in so much time what they found amongst those Christians But what evidence can the Author give us from the Text that this was their intended work during that space to examine and try what heart was in every one of these Professours and that in relation to constituting them a Visible Church after that tryall and judgment passed thereupon The only work we find mentioned in the Text ver 26. is their teaching they taught much people And there is nothing in it so much as hinting at this that they were not in state of a Visible Church untill after that whole years tryall Paul and Barnabas had given judgement what they did find amongst them as to their inward spirituall estate Nay there is a right apparent intimation that all along that years space they were a Visible Church and so esteemed a whole year they assembled themselves with the Church or in the Church 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 4. I will note but another thing here The Author intimateth that Barnabas his being full of the Holy Ghost is spoken of in that Text in relation to and as the Principle of tasting trying and judging these Christians soul-complexion for Church communion with them this is a â—eer forgerie It being clear as day light that 't is mentioned as the reason and Principle of the zealous exhorting them to sincere and constant continuing in the faith section 12 He goeth on thus In particular Churches some competent judgement may be made of every particular member by able men in a long tract of time And so are these worthies else where said with this Church to have had intimat communion Act. 14. 27 28. And there they abode a long time with the Disciples pag. 5 6. Answ I wonder how Mâ— Lockier speaking of the judgement touching Church members their qualification as members talks of it as given by some that are able men when as the way maintained by his side of judging and admitting Church members requireth this to be done by the decisive votes of all and every one in the Church all which cannot be supposed to be such able men as he speaks of But to the purpose in hand true able men in a long tract of time having conversed with every particular member of a Church may be able to give a good judgement of them but the matter in question is in thesi whether such a judgement grounded upon a tryall of so long a time must be antecedent to their stateing in Church-membership And in the hypothesis of the particular now in hand whether Paul and Barnabas had so long a time intimat communion with the Antiochian professors and thereby gave a judgement upon them concerning their spirituall estate before they were constitute in a Visible Church This Mr. Lockier should have alledged and made good if he would had a solide ground for his Doctrine intended But doth the Passage cited Acts 14. 27 28. say any thing for this purpose Now I report my self for judgement upon this to any Reader of ordinary common capacity let him but take this to consideration that before the time of this abode at Antioch mentioned Acts 14. 28. Barnabas after the work of the Gospel begun at Antioch had come thither sent from Jerusalem he and Paul had Preached there together a whole year they had gone in commission sent by the Antiochian Christians with a relief to the distressed Brethren at Jerusalem Chap. 11. and had returned again Chap. 12. 25. And having stayed there some time by speciall Divine appointment they are sent abroad through the Nations about to Preach the Gospel and having after a long peregrination returned again to Antioch then is said that Chap. 14. 28. and there they abode a long time with the Disciples Now were not the Antiochians stated in a Visible Church untill judgement was given upon them after intimat communion in this time of abode I might bring a multitude of Arguments to prove the contrary from severall passages of the Story going before But I need go no further then the immediat preceeding Verse v. 27. When they were come and had gathered the Church But it may haply be said that the Author brings this Passage to shew not what tryall and knowledge Paul and Barnabas had of them before they were stated Members in a Church Visible but what they might had of them to be a warrantable ground of their report made touching them Chap. 15. 3. Answer If so then say I he alledges it to no purpose as to his scope in this Lecture for his intention is to have Paul and Barnabas Chap. 15. 3. speaking of the qualification of these Gentiles in relation to their stating in a Visible Church and accordingly thereupon to build a generall Doctrine touching the proper matter of a Visible Church section 13 Adde saith he to this Acts 15. where you shall see further what is solemnly asserted of these Converts in severall verses as v. 8. And God which knoweth the hearts beareth them witnesse giving them the Holy Ghost even as he did unto us and put no difference between us and them purifying their hearts by faith Here is a Text to some purpose God which knoweth the hearts beareth them witnesse c. That they have the like powerfull spirituall receptions with the best of them at Jerusalem And indeed I think it dangerous for any to affirm that all these expressions might not mean effectuall grace or else be spoken of some only but not of the whole Compare with this v. 11. 16 17 18 19. what he concludes Wherefore my sentence is c. pag. 6 7. Ans Here is indeed a Text to some yea to a very great purpose viz. for the end for which it was spoken by the Apostle Peter that is to prove that Circumcision and the rest of the yoke of the Ceremoniall Law ought not to be imposed upon the
Classes 1. Some Texts of Scripture as directly holding forth his Doctrine 2. Some others holding forth hints and shadows of it 3. An induction of instances of particular Churches mentioned in Scripture as so constitute 4. Some reasons We shall take them into consideration in so many Sections according to their order in the Author section 2 To his Texts of Scripture he is pleased to preface with this confident expression That ye may know how richly the Scripture consents to this To which we say no more but that it is most suteable to sound a triumph after the victory And so comes to his first Text Acts 9. 26. And when Saul was come to Jerusalem he assayes to joyn himself to the Disciples but they were all afraid of him and beleeved not that he was a Disciple On which place he for effecting his purpose from it commenteth thus First in a parenthesis he supposeth that the Disciples carriage here towards Paul proceeded from light and conscience and tendernesse in this mater viz. of admitting members into their Visible Church-communion and makes a note upon that particle all that they were a homogeneall body under the same light c. in the mater Then addeth What did they fear That he did not make profession of Christianity Why now he tendered himself to do it wHY should they have denyed him now if bare profession had been enough It is evident they feared that he did but meerly professe and that they should take in an heterogenerall peece one that had but the outside of that qualification which this new building should have and therefore Barnabas took him to the Apostles and declared to them how he had seen the Lord in the way and used all means to satisfie them of the reality of Gods work upon his heart And upon this he was received as fit mater for this new house and as suteable mater to that which was already in the building section 3 Answ 'T is a wonder to me and I professe I cannot wonder enough that any judicious and learned of the Independent Brethren should ever alledged this place for their Tenet in this Question yet not only our Author here but others also before him have brought it to that purpose But I have observed it a thing incident even to good men and in other things discerning that when they have once taken up an opinion in mater of Religion and it has gotten rooting in them they become so fond in love with their own conception that either readily they will even bend their wits to straine and force Scripture to speak for it or else their judgement being somewhat vitiate as to that particular with affection trowes any word almost speakes clear for it How others of them have improven this place I stay not to consider but to what Mr. Lockier hes on it 1. He supposeth that the matter between Paul and the Disciples at Jerusalem was about admission of him to be stated a member of that Visible Church Now where appeareth that in the Text You 'l say there he essayed to joyn himself to the Disciples good enough forsooth to please credulous and unstable minds The simple meaning of the words is no other thing but that he assayed to be familiarly with them So the word * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is used afterward c. 10. v. 28. Ye know that it is unlawfull for a man that is a Jew 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. to keep company or familiarly converse with or come unto one of another nation 'T is of the same sense with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Joh. 4. 9. But besides this I think upon this supposition made by Mr. Lockier and other Principles of his was concerning the Visible Church he may be put to a puzling question For when as it is held by our Brethren that thâ—… is no Visible Church existing but a particular Congregation I would ask whether Paul had been a Visible Church-member before this time any other where And if so whether he did now cease to be a Visible member of that former Church and so of all Churches by suiting to be a member of the Church at Jerusalem untill he was received in there Then when he removed again from Jerusalem whether he laid down his membership in that Church Or if he continued standing in it when he was travelling through the world Then if he laid it down whether he behoved to be stated a member in another Visible Church and then in another according as he removed from one place to another 2. Whereas the Author sayes that the Disciples at Jerusalem their carriage toward Paul was from light and conscience and tendernesse in the mater of the constitution of the Visible Church and that they did fear they should take in a heterogeneal peece is evidently a bold fiction beside the Text And he must give me leave to doubt if he spoke that in good sad-earnest can any man conceive any other thing to be meant by these words they all feared him but this that when as he had before been a violent persecutor of Christians they apprehended he was still such an one and might be now only seeking to insinuate himself amongst them as a Wolfe to destroy them That they feared him the same way that Ananias did v. 13 14 of this same Chap. Will any man I say that reads the Story when he comes to this Passage conceive otherwayes of the meaning thereof Nay I appeal to the Authors own conscience if upon serious looking again upon the words and the series of the Story himself can conceive otherwise of it Now such a fear as this and that light conscience and tendernesse in the mater of Church constitution are very different things As for his Argumentative questioning What did they fear That he did not make a Profession of Christianity Why now he tendered himself to do it but it is evident that they feared he did but meerly professe c. I Ans 'T is very poor and unbeseeming a man of understanding pretending to speak seriously I say that was not it they feared that he did not make Profession of Christianity nor yet that that he did but meerly professe taking meer Profession only in opposition to Profession from a Principle of saving grace but the thing they feared was his cruelty which they had seen before not knowing but he was still on that same way and they feared his professing himself a Disciple and essaying to converse familiarly with them was but fraudulent counterfeiting to get advantage to execute his cruelty And Barnabas his bringing him to the Apostles and his discourse touching the Lords dealing with him wherein I confesse there is so much as might sway their judgements to account him not only one seriously and sine dolo malo Professing Christianity but also a truely gracious convert yea and an Apostle of Jesus Christ too was to take this fear out of their hearts that they might
terrour of this Text for that section 16 The place Rev. 3. 10. spoken to the Church of Philadelphia is but abused For 1. What warrand is there to expone that hour of temptation spoken of there of the time immediatly before the Calling of the Jews And the Church of Philadelphia in a typicall sense of some Churches to be then 'T is too much boldnesse to force such typicall Interpretations upon Scripture where the Spirit of God in the Word goeth not before us to warrand us 'T is true Reverend Brightman hâ—s Interpreted all the Churches and the things written to them as types of other Churches in these latter dayes But 1. All solide Divines have shown their discontentment with his conceit as groundlesse 2. Yet doth not he understand by Philadelphia such Churches immediatly before the incalling of the Jews as Mr. Lockier fancies But hes expresly named some present Churches which he will have to 〈◊〉 signified thereby Geneva France Low-Countreys and with the rest even that Church of Scotland which Mr. Lockier counts an evill vessell that will be broken in pieces and that because of the order and Government set up in them 3. The place speaks not here of cutting off Churches but of trying the Inhabitants of the World 4. If these Churches typified by Philadelphia are not to be cut off because of their constitution like its how comes that it self which was the Patern and to whom this word was spoken in the first instance and place hath been cut off section 17 The place of Daniel is as grossely abused What ground or appearance can Mr. Lockier give us that the Holy Ghost means one and the same time Daniel 12. and Rev. 3. in the Epistle of Philadelphia He sayeth by these words Daniel 12. 1. It doth plainly appear that this hour of temptation viz. Rev. 3. 10. will be immediatly before the Calling of the Jews and he doth no more but say it Learned men and that upon considerable grounds and reasons have conceived that time Daniel 12. 1. not to be a time after Christs first comming but before it the time of Antiochus persecution And must Mr. Lockiers naked assertion without reason that it is a time immediatly before the Jews incalling be sufficient to obtain beliefe section 18 The New Jerusalem spoken of Rev. 21. is groundlessely expounded to be the Visible Church of the Jews as contradistinguished from the Church of the Gentiles And I verily think that it cannot be understood of the Church upon earth at all ver 22. seemeth to me to speak this much clearly The place Isa 11. 7. is also grossely missapplyed to the Visible Church of Gentiles to be joyned with the Visible Church of the Jews after their incalling it being clearly a Prophesie concerning the Universall Church of the Gospel reaching along from the time of Christs first comming unto the end as all Interpreters expound it and the context it self holdeth it forth evidently And so is the place of Zechariah pointed at to be understood The hint at Jer. 12. 9. where that ancient people are likned to a speckled bird as if thereby were meant that because that Church in its visible constitution was mixed of â—ypocrites with the Godly therefore it is called a speckled bird and that upon that account they were casten off might make a man laugh were we not on a serious matter and it s rather a mater of mourning to see Scripture and so much of it so wrested The simple meaning of the words being this that as a wilde strange bird of an uncouth colour coming in among other birds all flieth about it and pursueth it So because the people were become uncouth estranged from God wilde untame the Lord would raise up the Nations round about to destroy them But what meaneth Mr. Lockier to speak here of the casting off the ancient Visible Church of the Jews under the Old Testament for not constituting their outward Visible society of all truely Saints but suffering it to be speckled Seeing all along this discourse he hes restricted his Doctrine concerning the mater of the Visible Church to the dayes of the Gospel As for his inference wherewith he closeth consequently the allowed mater of a Visible Church Remember we are speaking of Mater allowed in relation to the outward Ecclesiastick Court its proceeding in admitting persons to externall Church fellowship now in the dayes of the Gospel are persons truely holy we say it followeth not upon any thing you have been alledging in this paragraph For were all granted you have been writing out of these places all comes to this that God sometime after this will bring the Church Visible to such an estate that all in it shall be truely holy de facto But dispensations of efficacious grace are not a rule of Ecclesiastick proceeding in admitting persons to the outward communion of the Visible Church SECTION VII A short modest reply to Mr. Lockyers bitter use made of his Doctrine section 1 I had heard oftentimes before this time Mr. Lockier commended for a man of an ingenuous humble meek sweet spirit and when I read the Epistle of his three Brethren prefixed to this Peece wherein they called him a soft sweet whisperer I expected to have found him such here But sure I am any impartiall man who readeth his Use and application of his Doctrine may see great want of ingenuity and such bitternesse vented against men desirous to keep the truth and to walk before God in simplicity and godly sincerity as becometh not any man of a Christian spirit and the like whereof could hardly been expected to come from the very sons of Babel themselves against any Protestants section 2 He begins with this Take heed then of setting against a Church of such a complexion and constitution Wilt thou oppose a thing because it is as it ought to be To whom do you speak Mr. Lockier To us who oppose your Doctrine concerning the necessary qualification of Church members in relation to externall Church fellowâ—hip Do we by opposing this oppose a thing because it is such as it ought to be Nay we do but oppose you who sayes the Church Visible as such ought to be even in the Ecclesiastick Court that which God never said in his Word that it ought to be and makes the door of the Visible Church straiter then ever the Lord made it and so in effect disclaimes the way allowed by God himself for ordering his Church as not wise enough nor accurate enough Or do we set our selves against a Church of such complexion and constitution as you descrive consisting of all truly godly so far as men can judge God forbid and far be it from us were there such a Church in the world of such complexion and constitution it should be very dear and precious in our estimation and we should blesse the Lord for the riches and power of his grace bestowed upon them We wish from our souls that our Churches
so inclineable to separation because of the unsoundnesse of our Church members and un-un-Church whole Paroches Mr. Lockier doth whole Nations and gather Churches out of them as if they were no Churches and that must have such triall and discoveries of the work of mens conversion before they admit them would but lay to heart al the Scripture examples and make moâ—e conscience of observing their rule and not presume to be wiser and holier then God He that goeth beyond Jesus Christ shall go without me So he and so say I with him But 2. I cannot yet agree with him in this that men are not to be received into the Visible Church but under the notion of true believers and positively judged to be such though but probably 1. I can see no warrand in the Word for this 2. The grounds that the learned Author hints at for it pag. 73. do not seem convincing 1. Whereas he saith that it is all one to be a visible member of the Church and a member of the Visible Church And he that denyeth this will but shew his vanity I say if the name Church be taken in one and the same notion in both Propositions I confesse 't is true he saith and he would show his vanitie that would deny it But if in the former thereof Church be taken for that society which is Christs mysticall redeemed body the Epithete Visible noting so not the nature of membership but an adjunct of it I deny the identity of these two Propositions and cannot see but it is solide enough to deny it Again when he saith that the Invisible is properly and primarly called the Church and the Church Visible containing all the unsound part is called the Church secundarly and for the sake of the Invisible ble I acknowledge this is ordinarly said but can see no reason for it I find three speciall Ecclesiastick significations of this name 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in Scripture viz. 1. The society or company of redeemed ones effectually called from the estate of nature 2. A society outwardly called into and making profession of the faith worship and service of God in Christ 3. An Assembly of Officers imployed in government of Professors However I confesse the strict signification is principall and most excellent as to the thing yet I think all of them are alike proper and none of these things has the name by way of reference to another of them 3. When as he saith That if we were fully certain by his own externall discoveries that a man were not of the Invisible Church that man should not be taken to be of the Visible and if any Jew or Pagan were to be taken into the Church upon his profession we ought not to admit him except his Profession seem to be serious and sincere For this I represent these considerations 1. If we were fully certain by his own externall discoveries that a man were not of the Invisible Church neither actually nor potentially or in the purpose of God i. e. if we were fully certain by his own externall discoveries that he were a reprobat as these that sin against the Holy Ghost and these only discovers themselves to be such true he were not to be received into the Visible Church even because he were known to be this way not of the Invisible Church 2. I confesse also that 〈◊〉 a mans outward carriage and way such as did discover him positively not to be of the Invisible Church actually i. e. as did discover him positively to be an unregenerat man though I did not discover him to be as a reprobat i. e. not so much as potentially of the Invisible Church he were not to be received into the fellowship of the Visible But withall I say he were to be debarred or not received not upon the account of non-regeneration or upon that cariage considered under this formality and reduplication as a signe and discovery of non-regeneration but materially as being contrary to the very outward profession of the faith for such a cariageonly I conceive it would be this my reason why I deny that non-regeneration or any thing considered formally under the notion or reduplication as a signe of non-regeneration which is all one should be the cause for excluding a man from admission into the Visible Church is because I conceive it is Gods revealed will in his word that men be received into the Visible Church that they may be Regenerat and converted and that the Ministeriall dispensation of the Ordinances are by Gods revealed will set up in the Church to be means of Regeneration and Conversion as well as edification of such as are Regenerat 3. I conceive between such as are in a course and cariage which indeed discovers evidently and certainly non-regeneration e. g. as to be without the profession of Christianity to live in some heresie directly contrary to the foundation as is Socinianism to live in a constant course of known prophanity and such as are seemingly Regenerat and so to be positively judged such in probability there may be yea and are many of a midde sort who are in such an estate and condition outward and as relating to mans judgement of them that as they do not unto full certainty of judgement discover themselves non-regenerat so there is not sufficient ground positively to judge them probably Regenerat and so to use them that is to dispence Ordinances to them as such and in a way suteable to men supposed to be Regenerat But the most we can in our judgement of their state is to prescind from passing a positive judgement either way as for example a man when he comes first to make a serious sober profession of the faith before we have further experience of his way or of whom we know no more as yet but that he seriously professeth the truth and offereth subjection to Ordinances I confesse this is a ground sufficient probably to judge the man is elect God has a purpose to save him and could we not judge this much probable of him I will not say we should receive him in that case But it is not sufficient this alone and by it self to ground a positive judgement that he is Regenerat or actually in the state of grace though you call it a judgement of probability my reason is this because to ground a positive act of judgement that a man is Regenerat in foro exteriori there is requisite some seemingnesse to speak so of spirituall sincerity in a mans profession i. e. that he doth it from a spirituall principle upon spirituall motives and for a spirituall end But a meer sober not mocking serious profession without more is not a positive appearaÌ„ce of spirituall supernaturall sincerity at least therefore I humbly conceive it is a mistake to confound seriousnesse and sincerity if he understand spiritual or supernatural sincerity as he must understand it here for that is larger then this many are serious in their
Prelaticall or Papall tyranny â—et all indifferent men judge When as we put the authoritative and judicall Power of censures in the hands of the Eldership or Rulers of the Church onely we make not people meer spectators or witnesses of what is done But give unto them a rational obediential consent so that they are not oblidged to give their obedientiall consent and concurrence to the Elderships acts if they find theâ—… not agreeable to the Word of God And your own most judicious and best advised make the dogmaticall determination of censure which they ascribe to the sole Eldership as obligatory upon the people for their obedience as we do the Presbyteries sentence and as their Preaching of the Word of God 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2. whereas in the Presbyterian way inferior Elderships are countable for their proceedings to Superior more ample and larger Elderships and incase of grievance by the sentence of an inferior appeal and recourse may be had to a Superior more ample which is far from the Prelaticall or Papall way wherein the procedure is from moe to fewer till you come to one A Lord Metrapolitan or an universall Pope but in your way three Elders giving a dogmatical determination with four or five private brethren concurring with them as they are obliged to obey their determination as much as their Preaching of the Gospell may Excommunicate a man and are accountable to none on earth in a Church way to recognosce or â—edresse if they do amisse and if they should deliver souls enough to Satan unjustly there is none on earth that can authoâ—itatively call them to an account in a Church way to say to them What do you Now let the World judge whether of these two be nearest a * See a sad instance of this related by M. Caudrey vindic vind Epistle to the diss Papall power three Elders with some few private brethren having supreame Power on earth to Excommunicate persons unaccountable uncorrigible by any Superiour on earth Or some Presbyters acting in subordination to a larger Presbytery to whom recourse may be had for recognoscing their proceedings and sentence and rectifying it if amisse and if these haply fail then recourse may be had yet to a Synode may be consisting of a hundred Ministers and as many or more choise Elders of all the Churches of a whole Province Yea and if haply th◠〈◊〉 a failing there recourse may be had to a Synode of severaâ—â—undreds of the choice Ministers and Elders of all the Churches of a whole Nation I say again â—et all indifferent men judge whether of these wayes be nearest to the Papall Power 2. It s a foul misreprâ—sentation that our Interpretation of the place 1 Cor. 5. 4. is the very Doctrine of Iesuits of Rheâ—s We confesse we say as they because therein they say with the truth that authority of giving sentence was not in the whole multitude of the Church and that the Power of binding and loosing was not given to the whoâ—e Church at the subject but for their good as the end and in this they say righter then they that say the contrare which they falsly ascribe to all Protestant Divines But the Rhemists Jesuites puts that power in the hands of the sole Prelates Officeâ— that were never of Gods appointing excluding all other Ministers of Christ we with the Word of God disclaiming all Prelates maintain it to be in all the Ministers and Elders of the Church to â—e exercised by them conjunctim Rhemists with other Papists make their Prelaticall power and authority lordly soveraigne dictatorian tyrannicall oblidging the people to absolute blind obedience We give no power to Elders but Ministeriall the actings and determinations whereof ought not to be received by people in a way of blind obedience but may and ought by them be tryed and proven in the judgement of private discretion whether they â—e agreeable to their rule the Word of God or not 3. When as Mr. Lockier sayeth that Gods people are deprived of their best liberties when they have not joint authoritative concurrence and vote in the Acts of Government but these are only in the hands of the Eldership and that is a bondage to them and that 't is little oddes under whom they have this bondage one Prelate or many Presbyters 1. I think upon more serious advice and deliberation he will take up that word againe where hee calls liberty of judiciall authoritative voteing in Acts of Government the best liberties of the people of God I think he will find they have liberties much better then that But 2. does Mr. Lockâ—…r indeed account it a depriving of people of their Liberties and a bondage to be under the Government of Rulers with whom they may not all and every one of them joyn 〈◊〉 â—…tively in the Acts of Government Certainly this principâ—…â—s under his words here and beleeve tho it may please Levellers well for it is just their language yet it will not â—ellish very well to such as have the present Government in their hand â— When he sayeth that Presbyters take power to themselves without the word viz. in acting in Government without joynt authoritative concurrence of the people and therefore may justly have the same title with other usurpers c. we say the Author buâ— begs the Question that they take that power without the 〈◊〉 which he has not yet proven nor ever will The Word of God being clear for it that they are Rulers set over the Church to govern them and people commanded to give obedience unto them in that relation â—nd therefore to call them as 〈◊〉 whom Jesus Christ never appointed to be Rulers over his Church usurpers is nothing else but to call good evill and light darknesse section 11 The Authors second instance to make out his generall Assertion undertaken SECT 6. is taken from the proceedings of the Synod of Jerusalem Acts 15. Where the Apostles themselves were present and diverse Elders with them the matters being of great consequence as well for faith as practice Yet nothing was done in the beginning carrying on or ending of the same but with interessing the Congregation and the Brethren their names being to the Letters they speaking in the Assembly they having satisfaction by Argument and not overborn by Authority and these joining their assent in sending back chosen Messengers from amongst them as Judas and Silas to other Churches they were the Apostles Elders with the whole Church that joyned in it Acts 15. 22 23. If at any time the Church might been left out it might have been at such a time aâ— this when the inspired Apostles were present and in matters of this nature yet would they not leave such an example to future Churches of such a way Ans Were Mr. Lockiers cause he pleadeth for never so good yet I must crave leave to say it is ill managed in this instance If I have not ground to say so I â—ave to impartiall men to
21. Papers of the Assem of Divines Ans to the Reas of the Dissenting Brethren against the instance of the Church of Jerus Jus Divin of Church Govern by the London Ministers Part. 2. c. 14. Mr. Rutherfurd due Right of Presbyteries pag. 355. At length treating upon this place Spanhem Epist ad David Bucan class 3. rat 3. There is so much said by these to this purpose that I need not increase the bulk of this Book by setting down any Reasons here against Mr Lockier if he will be pleased to take unto his consideration what is already said by them he may do well Come we to his Reasons brought to prove that this Synod exercised only a power of counsell not of jurisdiction Of four brought by Mr. Hooker Survey Part. 4. c. 1. pag. 13 14. he borroweth two 1. Is made up of two processes the first whereof is this These decrees are said to bind these to whom they are sent But they were sent to all the Churches of the Gentiles This is evident saith Mr. Lockier Acts 21. 25. as touching the Gentiles that believe we have written and concluded that they observe c. Ergo they did bind all the Churches of the Gentiles Answ To this 1. for the Major where is it so said I cannot remember any place of the story where this is said If he and Hooker from whom he hath this mean that we say and confesse this that the decrees of the Synod bind all these to whom they are sent that we never said If it be understood of binding as Synodicall decrees A Synod in one Nation may send their decrees unto Churches of another Nation as was ordinary to do in the Primitive times yet we say not that the decrees of a Synod of one Nation binds the Churches in another Nation though may be the mater of them binds them 2. For the minor If the meaning be as it must be that the Argument may speak to the purpose it is intended for that they were sent by way of Synodicall decrees to all the Churches of the Gentiles as certainly they were to some we deny it the place cited Act. 21. 25. proves it not For it speaks of the Gentiles indefinitly and clearly relates to the Letter written Act. 15. where the very inscription bears that so they were sent only to the Gentiles in Antioch Syria and Cilicia v. 23. 'T is true Paul and Barnabas delivered the decrees to others as they went through the cities Act. 16. 4. but it is not said that they were sent to them by way of Synodicall decrees as they were to these other Churches But grant that one way or other they were sent also to the rest of the Churches of the Gentiles that is that it was the will and intention of the Synod that as occasion should serve they should be delivered to them and we shall also grant the conclusion of this first processe in some sense that they did bind all the Churches of the Gentiles See we what Mr. Lockier will infer upon this in his next processe section 15 Now these saith he i. all the Churches of the Gentiles had no Commissioners delegated to that Synod Therefore what the Synod did could not bind them by way of authoritative jurisdiction because where is no delegation of Commissioners there is no right of jurisdiction They did bind them only by way of counsell and materially as things clearly held forth in the Word of God Answ If Mr. Lockier when he sayeth now these had no Commissioners there c. if he mean this Universally that none of the Churches of the Gentiles had Commissioners there it is clearly false If he mean only that some of them had no Commissioners there it is true and we grant that the decrees of the Synod did not bind these Churches by way of jurisdiction and formally as decrees of the Synod but materially But hence it followeth not that they did not bind at all nor any by way of jurisdiction For some Gentile Churches had their Commissioners there and were Members of the Synod Antioch Syria and Cilicia these two last if they had not yet they might and ought to have had and it is most probable they had and so these Churches might be bound by them by way of jurisdiction and formally for ought that is brought in this Argument and they did so bind them as is abundantly proven in the Authors cited before section 16 I cannot here passe by the Observation of the two Syllogistick moulds whereinto Hooker casts this last processe that Mr. Lockier has borrowed from him in the place of his Survey last cited The 1. is this The decrees of a Synod bind only such by Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction who delegate messengers to the Synod But the decrees of this Synod bind more then these who delegated messengers to it to wit all the Churches of the Gentiles Therefore it did not intend to bind by Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction Truely 't is a pity to see a Godly man beguiling himself in such maters with such illogicall sillie Arguments I will not stay to exaggerate this to the full who sees not the grosse peccancy of this And if the Author would have concluded formally and right upon his premises the conclusion should have been this Therefore the decrees of this Synod did bind more Churches then such as it did bind by Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction And this he shall have granted by us without contradiction but also without any advantage to his cause His second mould which he sayeth is more plain is this These who send the decrees of the Synod to such Churches who never sent their Commissioners thither They send only by way of counsell But this Synod sent their decrees to all the Churches of the Gentiles who nâ—ver senâ— their Commissioners thither Ergo they sent only by way of counsell This is as louse for mater as to his point in hand as the former was peccant in forme For as to the Major The Synod which send their decrees to Churches who never sent at least ought to have sent their Commissioners thither send only by way of counsell to these Churches true indeed But if the meaning be that that Synod which sends their decrees to such Churches as never sent their Commissioners thither send only by way of counsel to all to whom they send them this is as easily denyed as it is affirmed and I believe it shall be long ere we hear a proof of it Then to the Minor That this Synod of Jerusalem sent their decrees to some Churches of the Gentiles that never sent their Commissioners thither let it be granted Yet it is as certain some to whom they sent them bad their Commissioners there as members And so for the 〈◊〉 it may be granted that this Synod sent their decrees to 〈…〉 only by way of counsel But from nothing in the Argument doth 〈◊〉 follow that they sent them only thus to all to whom they sent them
exceptions made to the contrary abundantly confuted 4. What Mr. Lockier has found or not found we know not nor stands on it but he might have found a Presbytery over more Congregations then one in Jerusalem Antioch Corinth Ephesus and he cannot deny but he has found the Church of Antioch making use of an associate Synodicall Presbytery at Jerusalem and that that Presbytery was more then consultative even authoritative and juridicall has been proven But I think what ever he conceives that he has found of a Congregationall Eldership exercising jurisdiction Ordaining or Excommunicating by it self he shall hardly point us to the place of Scripture where he found the instance of it what he saith of the Elders and Church of Ephesus from Acts 20. has been answered before SECTION XII Reply to Mr. Lockiers Answers to some Objections from SECTION 47. to the end wherein separation from not onely this Church of Scotland but all the Protestant Presbyterian Churches as Idolatrous is driven at section 1 MR. Lockier having hitherto gone about as he could to maintain that the power of the Keyes and Government of the Church of Christ ought not to be in the hands of Officers and Governours set over the Church in the Lord by the Lord himself but in the hands of the whole Church and that in the hands of every particular Congregation independently and supremely without association in or subordination unto any common Ecclesiastick Government which how well he has asserted and maintained we leave it to all understanding impartiall Readers to give their judgement he applyes himself to Answer some Objections against the things he has handled as he sayeth But what Objections are they I pray none of those which are brought directly against the points maintained by him before this Likely he found these too hard for him to grapple with and therefore thought it his wisedome to passe them rather by in silence And the Objections he brings are onely some things which he conceived might been said against his designe in casting this Little Stone at Presbyterian Churches to drive all good Christians if they might be affrighted to separation from them A wicked and shamefull designe especially for a man professing Godlinesse to have set before him I mind not here to insist or enlarge myself upon the Question of Separation from Churches not onely because other learned men have spoken abundantly and well upon that purpose namely my Reverend and Learned Collegue in the Ministrie and Superiour in the society wherein I live Mr. Rutherfurd in his Peaceable Plea and Due Right But also because I find nothing brought by this Author upon the mater worth the staying upon in handling that mater I shall onely give some few notes upon some things the Author I think out of hear of passion hath vented himself in section 2 Having Sect. 47. objected to himself thus You seem to be for separation from a Presbyteriall Church We find no separation but in case of Idolatry To this Sect. 48. he answers thus in summe That not only heathens had their idolatry as Dagon but also Christians theirs as a supreme Bishop over all Churches which he insinuateth to have been the Papists Idolatrie Alas he might have given other instances of their Idolatry then this as their worshiping a breaden god Crucifixes Relicks Saints departed Images c. then a supreme Bishop or Archbishop over the Church in such a Nation the Prelaticall Protestants Idol he would say and then a combination of Bishops over Churches hereby meaning an associat Presbyterie or Assembly Presbyteers Ruling more Churches odiously calling them Bishops that to him is also Idolatry So that command 2 Cor. 6. 17. come out from one kind of Idolatrie is come out from all Or else that rule binds only to separate from Heathnish Idolatrie What is not warranted by the Word is an Idol Answ We shall not deny but that whatsoever is practized in the Worship of God or set up as an Ordinance without Gods warrand in his Word may be comprehended under Idolatry taking Idolatrie in a large sense but that every thing set up or practized in the Worship of God or in Ordinances is such Idolatry as is a ground sufficient to separate from a Church wherein it is practized as no true Church is a conceit in it self without warrand of the Word nay directly contrare to the allowed practise of Gods people in the Word both in Old and New Testament This conceit of Mr. Lockiers is very Brounisme and rigide Separatisme ingraine But of this and the place 2 Cor. 6. 17. see enough in the Reverend Author whom I last mentioned But as for association or combination of Churches under a common Presbyterie it is warranted in the Word of God and so is his Ordinance as has been abundantly proven and what Mr. Lockier has brought to the contrare we trust has been sufficiently refuted And therefore let him consider his account he has to make to Almighty God for so atrocious a calumnie as his branding it with the name of Idolatrie and involving all the Reformed Orthodox Churches of Jesus Christ in the fearfull crime of Idolatrie And as for his pressing separation from all the Reformed Churches as Idolatrous I shall say no more but bring some Godly men amongst Independents themselves giving testimony against him Hear Mr. Hooker speaking in the name of the Divines of new England of the Congregations of old England I would sayeth he intreat the Reader that if he meet with such accusations that we nullifie all Churches beside our own that we are rigide Separatists c. such bitter calumnies a wise meek spirit passeth by them as an unworthy and ungrounded aspersion That which that Godly man in name of many other Independent Brethren with him intreats may not be believed to be thought or said by them accounteth it an unworthie and groundlesse aspersion Mr. Lockier with open mouth ownes and proclaimes that and worse Then we see what the Dissenting Brethren in the Assemblie of Divines say of their keeping communion with Presbyterian Churches Papers given in to the Honourable Committee c. pag. 29 30. holding communion with neighbour Churches in baptizing our Children as occasion may fal out in absence of Ministers in their Churches by occasional receiving the Communion in their Churches Also our Ministers to Preach in their Congregations and receiving theirs also to Preach in ours as Ministers of the Gospel as mutually their shall be a call from each other when we have any cases hard and difficult for our selves to advise with the Elders of their Churches in case of choise of Elders to seek the approbation and right hand of fellowship from Godly Ministers of their Churches and when an Ordination falls out to desire the presence and approbation of their Elders with our own In case any of our Churches miscarry through mal-administration to be willing upon scandall taken by their Churches to give an account as unto Sister Churches
are against Anabaptists all their writings shew and how much they lay to our charge for ushering in and countenancing this Tenent Answ How we holding Baptism to be the seal and solemn admission of Visible Church members do gratifie the judgement and practice of the Anabaptists in that which is Anabaptism their excluding of Infants of Christians from Baptism I professe my self one that cannot see The Author would have done well to have assayed to shew us how that any way advantageth their Tenent Indeed he sayeth true that Presbyterians are much against Anabaptists Doctrine But would hereby fasten a peece of dottage upon them Because that being so much against that Doctrine they yet maintain a Tenet concerning Baptisme that much gratifies it but let him assay to clear this for it is not enough to say any one may see it What ground there is to looke upon his Tenet concerning the allowed matter of the visible Church as tending to Anabaptism we have shewed before in the 1. part of this Examination But it seems to me that in this place the Author does not a little gratifie the judgement of the totall enemies of Baptism and Socinians that accounts it needlesse amongst Christians While as he averres that there may be a Church he must mean a Christian Church else he speaks not to purpose before baptism and that even before they be baptized acting eminent Church acts as making to themselves Ministers If this to averre that persons may be a Church without baptism and men may be Ministers of a Christian Church without baptism if this Assertion be not advantagious to enemies of Baptism I leave it to the Authors second thoughts section 14 His last Ojection But since this opinion prevailed we see a vast toleration of all strange and damnable Doctrines This indeed is an heavy prejudice against your way and the thing in fact is too too palpably true and you could not here deny it but only goes about to extenuat yea and in a great measure to justifie it and so much the more sad is this charge against you that not only hath this thing eventually followed since your opinion has prevailed But it tends to this in the very nature of it while as it attributes to every single Congregation may be of seven or ten persons an Independent supream Ecclesiasticall power in matters of Religion so that if any such Congregation should hold and teach any Haereticall Doctrine there is no Ecclesiastick power on earth that can authoritatively interpose to reclaim or censure them And for the Civil Magistrate he say you must take heed how he useth his sword for a weed-hook in these maculis mentis But now briefly see we what the Author returneth in answer to this charge section 15 We are willing to be a terrour to evill works and as unwilling to be a terrour to good We are not so well skilled in divine things as to tell what every thing is in the bud We are patient more then some would have us till the bud blossome and bear and when we see the fruit naught upon all occasions we give our witnesse against it by dispute discountenance and otherwayes as we understand the Word to warrand us Answ Alas Sr are you so ill skilled in Divine things as that you cannot tell what these many vile errors vented and taught by many in these lands are which yet to this day are permitted without any terrour used against them and think you that terrour enough against such things to Dispute against them as for discountenancing them we professe we can find no discountenancing of any maintaining errors amongst us more then those that are most orthodox and for your other wayes of witnessing against them we know not what it is forsooth Sr a bold Haeretick will care much for all your Disputes yet I beleeve it is little testimony even this way that this Author has given against the grosse errours of the time let him shew if ever he has moved his tongue or imployed his pen against Anabaptism Antinomianism Arminianism Socinianism and other grosse errours which he knowes aboundeth amongst his Countrey-men both at home and in the Army in this Land as 〈◊〉 has done with much bitterness against the Government of the Church of Scotland which yet is according to the truth of God and if not he personally * I know not if Mr. Lockier has taken the Covenant yet the supream Representative of his Nation and many of the prime Officers of the Army stand bound by the Covenant and Oath of GOD to maintain and defend section 16 But saith he if Tares and Wheat must grow together into the World till the end thereof the Civill Magistrate had need to be wary how he useth his Sword for a Weed-hook in maculis mentis spots of the mind lest Presbytery get a by-blow amongst the rest Some mens weapons to fight in their quarrels are to us as Sauls Armour to David too heavy we cannot tell how to wield them Because we take a litle stone and a sling when others would take an halter and a crosse do we then give a vast toleration Not by might nor by power Civill but by Gods Spirit in his Word and other Ordinances we fight in these quarrels Which weapons the not so terrible to look on yet are mighty through God to east down strong imaginations of vain men Answ 1. They are not meer maculae mentis that we think the Magistrates Sword should medle with But to extenuat damnable Doctrines vented to the high dishonour of God and seduceing of souls from the Truth of God to the destruction of their souls under the name of spots of the mind favours little of the true zeal of God and to reckon in Presbyterie amongst these is to call light darknesse for which I pray God grant the Aâ—thor Repentance 2. If the Civil Magistrate must use the Sword to be a terrour to evill works either he must use it as a Weed-hook against such Haereticall Doctrines or you must say that Haereticall Doctrines are no evill works which is to contradict the Word of God in terminis Philip. 3. 2. 3. It is but an odious intimation that we would have an halter and crosse taken against the teachers of every erroneous Doctrine Indeed there be some blasphemous Doctrines and not a few of them in the time As a halter or a crosse is too little for the obstinat venters of them * I have heard with mine ears soÌ„e boldly avow that every man anointed with the spirit is as much a Christ as JESUS the Sonne of GOD. but there are others wayes whereby the Civil Magistrats might imploy their power for suppressing false Doctrines from being brought forth to the dishonouring of God if they were as zealous for Gods honour as they are for their own interest 〈◊〉 4. While as you do here take off the Civil power from medling with these strange and damnable doctrines and allowes
no other means of dealing against them but by the Word and other spirituall Ordinances if you do not give a toleration to them let all men of common sense judge the Passages of Scripture hinted at by the Author for putting a colour upon this opinion of his are miserably abused For the former the parable of the tares I refer the Reader to Mr. Rutherfurd For the latter Zachar. 4. 6. Not by might nor by power but by my Spirit saith the Lord of Hosts Certain it is from the whole context that the Lords meaning there is this Because the people lately returned from Baylon and now imployed in the work of building the Temple were much discouraged in the prosecution of the work by the thoughts of the greatnesse of the work of the greatnesse of the power and opposition of their enemies and of their own weaknesse he would have them to know that it was not by the power of the creature but by his own power that that work was to be carried through and that therefore they ought not to be discouraged seeing his power was sufficient to bear down and remove the greatest impediments and to make the weakest means effectuall to accomplish the work 5. It is true that the word and other Ordinances are mighty through God to cast down strong imaginations of vain men but is it therefore a good Argument and Consequence the Word of God and other Ordinances are mighty through God to cast down such strong imaginations as Haereticall Doctrines Ergo the Civil Magistrate has nothing to do to suppresse the teaching of them by his Sword and power If so then it will as well follow he has nothing to do to suppresse or punish the out-breakings of carnall lusts in adulteries thefts murders c. Why For I beleeve the Word and other Ordinances of God are mighty through God to cast down these as well as the other The Author addeth Order is but making to in Church and State and therefore things are but disorderly in this Nation Warres make Lawes mute Answ 'T is well that at last he acknowledges that it is so that errours are tolerat for that is the charge he is answering to and that this is disorderly which yet how it can consist well with what he hath now been saying in the preceeding words I see not but if the excuse for this be relevant I leave it to God and all judicious indifferent men knowing the progresse of matters these ten or twelve years and what ought to have been done and might have been done had men been willing to have it done for setling truth and removing things contrary to sound Doctrine as was undertaken by Covenant and Oath to the most high God to be done section 17 He shutteth up all thus SECT 58. Finally Christians take this answer to all that may be further objected To be enquiring is honourable but to be ever learning and never practising is dangerous It was an heavy curse that Jeremiah wished upon himself Jerem. 20. 17. It is an heavy curse indeed upon that poor soul concerning whom it may be said the womb of truth is alwayes great with him alwayes in pangs and throws with him but cannot bring forth Forsooth Sir you have soon done with it We must take this for answer to all that may be further objected against that you have been pleading for Stand not upon these Objections but fall to practice down with our Church Government and Churches to the ground this to my conception is the scope of these words else I confesse I understand them not sure this man has had a wonderfull conceit of what he has been saying in this debate that thinks we should all be so convinced hereby of the truth of that which he has been pleading for that tho we had twenty Objections moe against it then he has touched as indeed we have many yet we should step over all and do what he biddeth us I will crave leave to say it I think no man of understanding beside himself will have such a conceit of it As for us we tell him we are not now to be enquiring about the matter he has been Disputing against I mean whether it be truth or if the contrary maintained be him be truth We have declared before God Angels and the World that the Religion established in this Church by the mercy of God in Doctrine Worship and Government of the Church is the truth of God taught in his Word and we are sure it is so and as we are bound by the will of God and our vowes and Covenants to abide in the profession and practice of this truth So we trust that God will establish our hearts with his grace to abide therein As for such as are fallen away from it we lament their case that if they have been moved by any of these things presented by this Author that they should kythed so ready to be turned about with every wind of doctrine the God of grace awaken them to remember whence they have fallen to repent and do their first works Amen APPENDIX Wherein is Examined what is said in the forementioned letter of the new Independents of Aberdene for the Independent Congregationall and against the Presbyteriall way of Church-Government section 1 THese Authors usher in what they say on this purpose with this preface Touching Presbyterian Government indeed when thoughts of Questioning it were first born in upon us we did a long time suppresse them as tentations Because we had so solemnly though too implicitely engaged to the maintenance thereof Yet afterwards knowing that Truth cannot losse by a search we brought the maters to the ballance of the Sanctuarie And now after seeking of God as he was pleased to give us grace and using all helps which we could have we professe so far as we can see with reverence to precious and learned men of another judgement the Congregationall way comes nearer to the paterne of the Word then the Classicall forme And to us it appears c. section 2 Indeed when these thoughts were born in upon them they had just cause to look upon them as tentations and for ought that they have brought for justifying them here they may justly yet look upon them as tentations as we trust shall appear in the consideration thereof But here 1. It may be just mater of enquiry to others and haply may be of good purpose to themselves to reflect and consider when these thoughts began first to be born in upon them at least when they began to out any thing of them Did we hear any thing of such thoughts in them but since the late great revolution of State in this Kingdom after Worcester and how soone thereafter did we hear of them by some of the number although others thought fit to suppresse them some longer This may seem to be ground of searching of heart which is deceitfull above measure 2. It seemeth by the Authors own
of Visible Christians generally comprehending private Professours as well as Rulers or not yet that not all and every one comprehended under that signification otherwise but only the Rulers are intended as the persons to whom the publike acts spoken of in the place receiving of publike delations of scandals and inflicting of censures does belong is here invincibly demonstrate because otherwhere in the New Testament these acts as all other acts of Ecclesiastick authoritative Government are committed and attributed unto the Officers of the Church as such Math. 16. 18. Iohn 20 21 22. 1 Tim. 5. 1 19. Tit. 1. 13. 1 Thess 5. 12. Heb 13. 7 17. 1 Pet. 5. 1 2. and accordingly to them as contradistinguished from the body of Professours are given names importing Government and authority But no where in the Scripture of the New Testament shall any man shew us either name or thing of Government given to private Professours We proceed to their second Argument whereby they would prove from that same place that any one single Congregation with their Eldership has power of jurisdiction Independent and Supreme and to take away all juridicall Ecclesiastick Courts larger than and Superiour to a Congregation Classicall or Synodicall section 5 The Church say they spoken of in this Text which has compleet power of binding and loosing is the first Ecclesiasticall Judicatorie to which belongeth judiciall cognisance of offences For if private admonition do not gaine the offender then the command is tell the Church But our Classicall Presbyterie is not the first Judicatorie to which appertaines judiciall cognizance of offences For first they come to Sessions and only by refers from the Sessions to Presbytories Therefore this Church here spoken of as having compleat power of binding and loosing cannot be the Classicall Presbytorie but the Eldership with the Congregation No where do we read in the Gospel of jurisdiction in relation to censure committed to Classicall Presbytery section 6 Ans 1. To the Assumption or second Proposition it seemeth these Authors have not well understood or been acquainted with the state and way of Presbyteriall Government settled in this Church and therefore have been too rash and hastie in condemning it or arguing against it before they understood it For 1. 'T is not only false which they say that the Classicall Presbyterie is not the first Judicatorie to which appertaines judiciall cognizance of offences but that first they come to Sessions c. If this be meant Universally of all offences Indeed offences committed by particular persons settled members of particular Congregations and as yet abiding within the bounds of the Congregation comes first to the Session or Eldership of the particular or single Congregation But there are many offences the judiciall cognizance whereof comes not first to a Session but to a Presbyterie yea may be a Synod yea may be to the Nationall Assembly When a private person having fallen into some scandalous sin and being conveened before a Session addes refractorinesse against the discipline and obstinacie to his former offence this is a new offence and the judiciall cognizance of this offence belongeth first to the Classicall Presbyterie So a Classicall Presbyterie is the first Judicatorie to which belongeth the judiciall cognizance Of an offence given by a Minister in the Administration of his calling Of an offence given by the Eldership of a Congregation and indeed supposing the first part of these Authors Assertion viz. that the power of jurisdiction is given to the Congregation with the Eldership jointly if they grant not an associate Presbytery to take judiciall cognizance of their offence they must exempt them from being subject to any judiciall cognizance at all For they cannot come under the judiciall cognizance of another single Congregation Of an offence wherein more single Congregations are alike concerned and many cases more I wonder that these Brethren did not rememher that the first judiciall cognizance of James Grahames offence of Seaforts and many other publick Malignant wicked practises was not by Sessions and from them came by reference to the Classical Presbytery but by the publick Assemblies 2. It is another grosse mistake too that these offences which comes to Sessions or Congregationall Elderships to be judicially cognosced upon and from them comes to the Classicall Presbyterie or to a Synode that they come only by râ—ferres from the Sessions to the Presbyteries For they come also by appeal of the party who is under the judiciall cognition of the Session upon mal-administration or supposed mal-administration They may also and do often come by way of authoritative visitation of Sessions and their proceedings by the Presbyterie section 7 2. To the Major or first Proposition 1. Suppose it were granted as it standeth yet it could not make fully against us to take away altogether associate juridicall Presbyteries of more then one single Congregation Because as we have shewn upon the Assumption such associat Presbyteries or Ecclesiastick Assemblies may be and must be the first Judicatories in many cases to which the judiciall cognizance of offences doth belong But 2. If the Major be taken in this sense the Church having power of binding and loosing is the first Judicatorie to which c. And it only taking it with the exclusive note as it must of necessity be taken to infer that negative conclusion Ergo a Classicall or associate Presbyterie is not that Church We deny it as utterly false having no proof from the Text. We say here that the Church invested with authority to cognosce judicially and inflict censure upon offences is the Rulers of the Visible Church Universall as joined in Collegio or assembled whether in the lesser and Inferiour Colledges or Assemblies as a Congregationall Eldership is in respect of all others a Classicall Presbytery in regard of Synods a Provinciall Synod in regard of a Nationall this in regard of a Synod of more Nations haply associate for Government to which as the first Judicatory matters may come for judiciall cognizance or in larger and superiour such as is a Classicall Presbytery in relation to a Congregationall a Synod in relation to a Classical Presbytery c. to which may be the matter cannot come at first or as to the first Judicatory having power of judiciall cognizance of it 'T is true that in such a case as our Saviour instanceth in the Text when offence is given by one particular member of a Congregation single and fixed in its constitution and proper Officers which fixing of single Congregations under appropriated Officers is not necessary by any divine institution For more Congregations may be have been as it seemeth in severalls of the primitive Churches and are at this day in some orthodox Churches served by the same Officers in common without violation of any divine institution Christs command Tell the Church intends that the matter should be brought to the Eldership of the Congregation as the first Judicature to which belongeth judiciall cognizance