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nation_n church_n government_n national_a 1,425 5 11.0890 5 false
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A27035 A second true defence of the meer nonconformists against the untrue accusations, reasonings, and history of Dr. Edward Stillingfleet ... clearly proving that it is (not sin but) duty 1. not wilfully to commit the many sins of conformity, 2. not sacrilegiously to forsake the preaching of the Gospel, 3. not to cease publick worshipping of God, 4. to use needful pastoral helps for salvation ... / written by Richard Baxter ... ; with some notes on Mr. Joseph Glanviles Zealous and impartial Protestant, and Dr. L. Moulins character. Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691. 1681 (1681) Wing B1405; ESTC R5124 188,187 234

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one_o have_v be_v the_o generation_n of_o another_o how_o many_o church_n of_o england_n have_v you_o have_v 4._o the_o whole_a nation_n do_v not_o consent_v by_o parliament_n when_o the_o lord_n and_o commons_o vote_v down_o the_o bishop_n and_o liturgy_n be_v there_o then_o no_o national_a church_n 5._o how_o shall_v we_o prove_v that_o the_o whole_a or_o half_o the_o nation_n ever_o mean_v to_o put_v their_o consent_n into_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o parliament_n to_o make_v a_o new_a church_n of_o england_n and_o to_o alter_v it_o 6._o what_o man_n make_v they_o may_v destroy_v may_v not_o the_o nation_n withdraw_v such_o consent_n and_o the_o parliament_n unmake_v their_o creature_n §_o 7._o next_o p._n 300_o he_o say_v the_o representative_a church_n of_o england_n i●_n the_o bishop_n and_o presbyter_n of_o this_o church_n meeting_n according_a to_o the_o law_n of_o the_o realm_n to_o consult_v and_o advise_v about_o 〈◊〉_d of_o religion_n the_o consent_n of_o 〈◊〉_d convocation_n 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from_o the_o necessity_n of_o a_o regent_n head_n to_o the_o necessity_n of_o his_o visibility_n as_o if_o our_o question_n have_v not_o be_v which_o be_v the_o regent_n part_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n but_o whether_o it_o must_v be_v visible_a be_v this_o edify_n 5._o all_o christian_n be_v agree_v that_o the_o universal_a church_n be_v visible_a 1._o in_o its_o part_n and_o member_n on_o earth_n and_o their_o profession_n 2._o in_o that_o christ_n the_o head_n be_v visible_a on_o earth_n 3._o and_o have_v leave_v visible_a universal_a law_n 4._o and_o have_v a_o body_n visible_a in_o heaven_n as_o the_o king_n be_v to_o his_o courtier_n but_o not_o to_o most_o of_o his_o subject_n 5._o and_o will_v short_o visible_o judge_v all_o the_o world_n thus_o far_o and_o no_o further_o save_v as_o see_v extraordinary_o to_o paul_n stephen_n etc._n etc._n be_v the_o universal_a head_n visible_a and_o be_v we_o not_o agree_v that_o this_o be_v a_o real_a and_o most_o excellent_a political_a church_n and_o that_o all_o other_o visible_a church_n be_v part_n of_o it_o something_o beside_o spleen_n make_v some_o man_n talk_v dangerous_o §_o 10._o but_o real_o do_v he_o think_v that_o this_o do_v unavoidable_o set_v up_o the_o pope_n why_o first_o be_v there_o a_o word_n of_o this_o that_o a_o sober_a christian_a dare_v deny_v or_o that_o the_o christian_a world_n do_v not_o common_o consent_v to_o and_o do_v the_o certain_a doctrine_n of_o the_o gospel_n and_o church_n set_v up_o the_o pope_n will_v he_o turn_v papist_n if_o this_o be_v prove_v and_o the_o christian_a world_n be_v not_o deceive_v be_v this_o our_o champion_n against_o popery_n now_o i_o think_v no_o man_n but_o mr._n cheny_n and_o some_o odd_a papist_n have_v be_v of_o this_o opinion_n but_o to_o mr._n cheny_n and_o against_o johnson_n i_o have_v confute_v it_o and_o therefore_o thither_o refer_v the_o reader_n far_o be_v it_o from_o i_o to_o resist_v popery_n by_o deny_v 1._o that_o christ_n 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man_n that_o thus_o make_v you_o agent_n for_o a_o pope_n 3._o do_v this_o political_a description_n of_o parochial_a diocesane_n provincial_a patriarchal_a church_n also_o bring_v in_o popery_n 4._o then_o either_o our_o archbishop_n have_v no_o power_n or_o they_o have_v it_o from_o no_o superior_a or_o else_o they_o infer_v a_o pope_n 5._o i_o again_o tell_v the_o doctor_n as_o i_o do_v mr._n cheny_n it_o be_v disingenuous_a to_o say_v this_o to_o i_o when_o i_o have_v write_v so_o much_o against_o johnson_n the_o priest_n in_o my_o first_o and_o special_o my_o second_o answer_n which_o none_o reply_v to_o without_o any_o confutation_n or_o notice_n of_o it_o i_o have_v full_o prove_v that_o christ_n catholic_n church_n have_v himself_o for_o a_o essential_a head_n sometime_o visible_a on_o earth_n leave_v visible_a law_n and_o now_o visible_a to_o the_o courtier_n in_o heaven_n and_o come_v visible_o to_o judge_v all_o and_o there_o be_v no_o other_o indeed_o if_o the_o doctrine_n of_o mr._n dodwell_n and_o many_o such_o hold_n who_o deny_v that_o the_o power_n flow_v immediate_o from_o christ_n law_n or_o charter_n to_o the_o church_n and_o not_o from_o the_o ordainer_n or_o elector_n who_o do_v but_o determine_v of_o the_o receiver_n and_o invest_v he_o than_o all_o the_o doctor_n in_o england_n can_v answer_v the_o digression_n cap._n 14._o of_o the_o book_n call_v the_o catholic_n hierarchy_n prove_v that_o such_o a_o prelatical_a subordination_n of_o church_n infer_v a_o pope_n but_o i_o have_v full_o show_v the_o vanity_n of_o that_o inference_n as_o to_o we_o but_o remember_v that_o the_o doctor_n and_o i_o be_v agree_v that_o a_o nation_n consent_v in_o a_o association_n of_o particular_a church_n may_v be_v call_v a_o national_a church_n equivocal_o though_o it_o can_v make_v no_o law_n unless_o its_o consent_n also_o set_v up_o a_o supreme_a church-government_n meet_v agreement_n be_v not_o law_n §_o 16._o he_o next_o will_v make_v the_o unwary_a 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1._o page_n 307._o say_v the_o dean_n the_o next_o thing_n to_o be_v consider_v be_v the_o interest_n and_o power_n of_o the_o people_n as_o to_o the_o choice_n of_o their_o pastor_n for_o want_v of_o which_o great_a complaint_n be_v make_v mr._n baxter_n be_v very_o tragical_a on_o this_o argument_n and_o keep_v not_o within_o tolerable_a bound_n of_o discretion_n in_o plead_v the_o people_n cause_n against_o magistrate_n and_o patron_n and_o law_n answ_n 1._o that_o be_v tolerable_a to_o some_o man_n which_o other_o can_v bear_v silken_a ear_n must_v have_v soft_a word_n the_o land_n can_v bear_v all_o his_o word_n be_v a_o old_a complaint_n and_o speak_n please_a thing_n prophecy_n deceit_n be_v a_o old_a mandate_n it_o be_v no_o wonder_n if_o that_o sort_n of_o man_n that_o must_v judge_n whether_o our_o preach_v and_o worship_v god_n be_v tolerable_a and_o must_v write_v we_o down_o the_o word_n which_o we_o must_v say_v to_o god_n in_o prayer_n or_o not_o be_v tolerate_v do_v also_o think_v themselves_o the_o meet_a judge_n whether_o our_o indiscretion_n be_v intolerable_a 2._o but_o let_v we_o try_v whether_o he_o state_n this_o controversy_n any_o more_o logical_o or_o true_o than_o the_o rest_n and_o whether_o he_o intimate_v not_o hurtful_a though_o tolerable_a untruth_n 1._o it_o be_v a_o crooked_a insinuation_n to_o put_v the_o word_n power_n instead_o of_o right_n and_o liberty_n as_o if_o power_n of_o consent_v in_o the_o people_n and_o power_n of_o ruler_n be_v univocal_a and_o not_o equivocal_a term_n but_o this_o be_v tolerable_a for_o experience_n have_v convince_v i_o how_o little_a logical_a strictness_n be_v from_o this_o doctor_n to_o be_v expect_v i_o doubt_v lest_o next_o as_o some_o man_n instead_o of_o learning_n maintain_v their_o reputation_n by_o deride_v it_o we_o may_v expect_v some_o such_o defence_n of_o the_o ●_z logic_n to_o prove_v that_o he_o be_v none_o of_o the_o disputer_n of_o this_o world_n who_o deceive_v man_n by_o vain_a philosophy_n 2._o and_o the_o word_n choice_n instead_o of_o consent_n be_v somewhat_o more_o crooked_a for_o choice_n usual_o include_v the_o first_o nominate_v vote_n and_o he_o know_v that_o i_o plead_v for_o the_o necessity_n of_o no_o more_o than_o the_o church_n consent_n though_o it_o be_v subsequent_a to_o the_o choice_n of_o magistrate_n or_o patron_n 3._o but_o the_o next_o be_v worse_a that_o i_o plead_v the_o people_n cause_n against_o magistrate_n patron_n and_o law_n when_o i_o do_v but_o desire_v their_o conjunction_n §_o 2._o his_o repetition_n call_v i_o tedious_o to_o repeat_v the_o state_n of_o the_o controversy_n a_o business_n quite_o below_o he_o i._o i_o have_v oft_o say_v that_o god_n have_v not_o make_v either_o magistrate_n or_o people_n the_o judge_n who_o be_v fit_a to_o be_v and_o shall_v be_v a_o minister_n of_o christ_n in_o general_a but_o the_o ordainer_n and_o the_o person_n himself_o conjunct_a this_o be_v evident_a 1._o from_o scripture_n instance_n of_o all_o that_o be_v ordain_v 2._o from_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o thing_n 1._o who_o be_v suppose_v so_o fit_a to_o judge_v as_o man_n and_o senior_n of_o the_o same_o office_n who_o but_o physician_n be_v fit_a to_o judge_v who_o be_v meet_v to_o be_v a_o license_v physician_n and_o who_o but_o philosopher_n judge_n of_o graduate_n and_o professor_n in_o philosophy_n 2._o and_o no_o man_n can_v make_v i_o a_o minister_n against_o my_o will_n nor_o know_v i_o to_o be_v fit_a if_o i_o know_v myself_o to_o be_v unfit_a §_o 3._o ii_o i_o have_v oft_o say_v that_o the_o supreme_a civil_a governor_n be_v the_o judge_n who_o he_o must_v countenance_v maintain_v and_o tolerate_v the_o proof_n be_v easy_a 1._o because_o to_o do_v it_o be_v his_o work_n and_o every_o man_n must_v be_v a_o discern_a judge_n of_o his_o own_o work_n 2._o because_o it_o be_v a_o public_a act_n of_o government_n and_o he_o be_v the_o chief_a public_a judge_n therein_o §_o 4._o iii_o i_o have_v oft_o say_v that_o the_o disposal_n of_o the_o tithe_n and_o temple_n be_v in_o the_o power_n of_o the_o prince_n and_o patron_n by_o his_o grant_n but_o with_o these_o bound_n 1._o his_o power_n be_v not_o absolute_a but_o under_o christ_n and_o limit_v by_o he_o and_o therefore_o he_o have_v no_o power_n against_o he_o nor_o to_o cross_v his_o law_n or_o to_o contradict_v his_o end_n 2._o if_o the_o tithe_n and_o temple_n be_v give_v only_o for_o public_a teacher_n of_o catechuman_n or_o for_o mere_a lecturer_n the_o magistrate_n must_v dispose_v of_o they_o to_o such_o as_o be_v capable_a of_o that_o office_n 3._o if_o the_o tithe_n and_o temple_n be_v give_v for_o the_o pastor_n of_o the_o church_n the_o magistrate_n be_v bind_v to_o give_v they_o to_o such_o as_o be_v lawful_o call_v to_o be_v such_o pastor_n and_o not_o by_o the_o advantage_n of_o his_o trust_n overthrow_v the_o way_n of_o entrance_n institute_v by_o christ_n 4._o however_o if_o they_o be_v devote_v to_o god_n it_o be_v god_n who_o be_v the_o proprietor_n and_o its_o sacrilege_n to_o alienate_v they_o and_o a_o intolerable_a ill_a disposal_n be_v alienation_n §_o 5._o iv._o i_o have_v oft_o say_v that_o it_o be_v suppose_v that_o their_o ancestor_n gift_n of_o tithe_n or_o glebe_n and_o temple_n be_v the_o reason_n of_o our_o common_a patronage_n and_o present_v power_n the_o will_n of_o the_o dead_a donor_n be_v to_o be_v observe_v and_o their_o gift_n give_v to_o none_o but_o on_o the_o term_n by_o they_o determine_v but_o their_o gift_n be_v suppose_v to_o be_v for_o the_o church_n good_a and_o not_o against_o it_o nor_o have_v they_o any_o power_n on_o pretence_n of_o beneficence_n to_o destroy_v or_o to_o take_v away_o more_o than_o they_o give_v but_o the_o trust_v of_o our_o soul_n conduct_v
will_v have_v all_o walk_n by_o he_o will_v not_o do_v it_o but_o instead_o of_o that_o with_o unusual_a gentleness_n tell_v i_o he_o will_v not_o differ_v about_o it_o if_o i_o do_v but_o grant_v that_o it_o be_v a_o rule_n that_o bind_v we_o all_o to_o do_v all_o that_o lawful_o we_o can_v for_o peace_n which_o i_o cheerful_o grant_v and_o if_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a for_o peace_n and_o concord_n to_o forbear_v silence_v we_o imprison_v we_o accuse_v we_o as_o odious_a for_o not_o wilful_a sin_v and_o urge_v magistrate_n to_o execute_v the_o law_n against_o we_o and_o make_v we_o seem_v schismatic_n for_o not_o forbear_v to_o preach_v the_o gospel_n to_o which_o we_o be_v vow_v and_o consecrate_v by_o ordination_n i_o know_v not_o lawful_a from_o unlawful_a i_o can_v yet_o get_v he_o to_o tell_v we_o what_o he_o will_v have_v the_o many_o score_n thousand_o do_v on_o the_o lord_n day_n that_o have_v no_o room_n in_o the_o parish-church_n with_o many_o such_o which_o our_o case_n be_v concern_v in_o §_o 14._o i_o think_v his_o book_n have_v be_v a_o answer_n to_o i_o and_o other_o man_n preface_n but_o i_o find_v that_o i_o be_v mistake_v indeed_o he_o name_v five_o book_n write_v against_o his_o accusation_n what_o he_o say_v to_o dr._n owen_n and_o mr._n alsop_n i_o leave_v to_o themselves_o to_o consider_v of_o the_o country_n gentleman_n case_n in_o sense_n be_v this_o whether_o all_o they_o that_o think_v parish_n communion_n under_o the_o present_a imposition_n to_o be_v sin_n be_v bind_v till_o they_o can_v change_v their_o judgement_n to_o forbear_v all_o church-worship_n and_o live_v like_o atheist_n and_o so_o be_v damn_v and_o who_o can_v find_v any_o answer_n to_o this_o mr._n barret_n query_n out_o of_o his_o book_n he_o say_v next_o nothing_o to_o but_o a_o dark_a retract_v his_o irenicon_n and_o far_o be_v it_o from_o i_o to_o blame_v he_o for_o grow_v wise_a but_o why_o take_v he_o no_o notice_n of_o his_o own_o word_n cite_v in_o the_o epistle_n out_o of_o his_o late_a book_n against_o idolatry_n threaten_v we_o all_o with_o no_o less_o than_o damnation_n if_o i_o prefer_v not_o the_o pure_a church_n and_o as_o to_o my_o defence_n his_o book_n be_v nothing_o like_o a_o answer_n unless_o his_o name_v i_o and_o cite_v out_o of_o that_o and_o other_o book_n a_o few_o break_a scrap_n which_o he_o think_v he_o can_v make_v some_o advantage_n of_o may_v be_v call_v a_o answer_n §_o 15._o i_o confess_v he_o have_v make_v some_o attempt_n to_o tell_v i_o what_o the_o national_a church_n of_o england_n be_v but_o so_o independent_o as_o i_o doubt_v his_o party_n will_v disow_v it_o with_o great_a offence_n in_o short_a he_o hold_v that_o there_o be_v no_o such_o thing_n as_o a_o church_n of_o england_n in_o the_o usual_a political_a sense_n have_v any_o constitutive_a ecclesiastical_a supreme_a power_n monarchical_a or_o aristocratical_a or_o democratical_a but_o it_o be_v only_o the_o many_o church_n in_o england_n associate_v by_o the_o common_a consent_n in_o parliament_n etc._n etc._n remember_v that_o he_o and_o i_o be_v so_o far_o agree_v as_o i_o be_v write_v this_o i_o see_v a_o book_n against_o he_o of_o a_o friend_n too_o much_o for_o i_o and_o somewhat_o free_o handle_v the_o dr._n which_o in_o this_o point_n will_v help_v they_o by_o say_v that_o the_o convocation_n have_v the_o legislative_a church-power_n may_v be_v the_o constitutive_a regent_n part_n but_o he_o confess_v to_o i_o that_o he_o speak_v not_o what_o be_v but_o what_o he_o count_v shall_v be_v or_o wish_v for_o the_o dr._n himself_o have_v before_o tell_v we_o that_o the_o convocation_n of_o canterbury_n and_o york_n be_v two_o and_o not_o unite_v to_o make_v one_o national_a supreme_a power_n so_o that_o this_o prove_v no_o one_o political_a church_n of_o england_n at_o all_o but_o only_o 2_o provincial_a church_n in_o england_n §_o 16._o the_o dr._n have_v so_o judicious_o and_o honest_o plead_v our_o cause_n in_o his_o defence_n of_o a._n bishop_n laud_n and_o his_o book_n against_o idolatry_n that_o i_o have_v make_v his_o word_n the_o first_o chap._n of_o this_o book_n which_o if_o he_o candid_o stand_v to_o i_o see_v not_o but_o our_o principle_n be_v the_o same_o §_o 17._o his_o book_n be_v make_v up_o of_o 3_o part_n i._o untrue_a accusation_n ii_o untrue_a historical_a citation_n abundance_n iii_o fallacious_a reason_n will_v you_o have_v a_o undeniable_a confutation_n ad_fw-la hominem_fw-la in_o few_o word_n i._o as_o to_o his_o principle_n he_o say_v himself_o as_o aforesaid_a of_o idolat_a p._n 7._o we_o be_v sure_a that_o wilful_a ignorance_n or_o choose_v a_o worse_a church_n before_o a_o better_a be_v a_o damnable_a sin_n ii_o as_o to_o his_o history_n of_o the_o old_a nonconformist_n read_v a._n bishop_n bancroft_n dangerous_a position_n and_o heylins_n history_n of_o presbytery_n charge_v they_o odious_o with_o the_o clean_a contrary_n and_o the_o canon_n make_v against_o they_o on_o that_o supposition_n iii_o as_o to_o his_o history_n and_o doctrine_n against_o the_o election_n of_o bp_o s_o which_o i_o plead_v as_o i_o have_v full_o prove_v his_o abuse_n of_o history_n in_o it_o i_o repeat_v mr._n thorndikes_n word_n forbear_v of_o penalty_n it_o be_v to_o no_o purpose_n to_o talk_v of_o reformation_n of_o the_o churchtoregular_a government_n without_o restore_v the_o liberty_n of_o choose_v bishop_n and_o privilege_v of_o enjoy_v they_o to_o the_o synod_n clergy_n and_o people_n in_o the_o make_n of_o those_o of_o who_o they_o consist_v and_o by_o who_o they_o be_v to_o be_v govern_v that_o i_o need_v make_v no_o other_o reason_n of_o the_o neglect_n of_o episcopacy_n than_o the_o neglect_n of_o it_o o_o pray_v hard_o to_o god_n to_o provide_v great_a store_n of_o skilful_a holy_a and_o peaceable_a labourer_n for_o his_o harvest_n that_o by_o the_o sound_a belief_n of_o a_o better_a world_n have_v overcome_v the_o delude_a love_n of_o the_o honour_n prosperity_n and_o pleasure_n of_o the_o flesh_n and_o whole_o live_v to_o god_n and_o heaven_n postscript_n dr_n edward_n stillingfleet_n irenic_n p._n 114._o say_v the_o episcopal_a man_n will_v hardly_o find_v any_o evidence_n in_o scripture_n or_o in_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o apostle_n for_o church_n consist_v of_o many_o fix_a congregation_n for_o worship_n under_o the_o charge_n of_o one_o pastor_n nor_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n for_o the_o ordination_n of_o a_o bishop_n without_o the_o precede_a election_n of_o the_o clergy_n and_o at_o least_o consent_n and_o approbation_n of_o the_o people_n and_o neither_o in_o scripture_n nor_o antiquity_n the_o least_o foot-step_n of_o the_o delegation_n of_o church-power_n so_o that_o upon_o the_o matter_n all_o of_o they_o at_o last_o make_v use_n of_o those_o thing_n in_o church-government_n which_o have_v no_o other_o foundation_n but_o the_o principle_n of_o humane_a prudence_n guide_v by_o scripture_n and_o it_o be_v well_o if_o that_o be_v observe_v still_o p._n 370._o sure_o then_o their_o diocese_n we_o re_fw-mi not_o very_o large_a if_o all_o the_o several_a parish_n can_v communicate_v on_o the_o same_o day_n with_o what_o be_v send_v from_o the_o cathedral_n church_n p._n 361._o i_o doubt_v not_o but_o to_o make_v it_o appear_v that_o philippi_n be_v not_o the_o metropolis_n of_o macedonia_n and_o therefore_o the_o bishop_n there_o mention_v can_v not_o be_v the_o bishop_n of_o the_o several_a city_n under_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o philippi_n but_o must_v be_v understand_v of_o the_o bishop_n resident_a in_o that_o city_n p._n 157._o there_o must_v be_v a_o form_n of_o ecclesiastical_a government_n over_o a_o nation_n as_o a_o church_n as_o well_o as_o of_o civil_a government_n over_o it_o as_o a_o society_n govern_v by_o the_o same_o law_n for_o every_o society_n must_v have_v its_o government_n belong_v to_o it_o as_o such_o a_o society_n and_o the_o same_o reason_n that_o make_v government_n necessary_a in_o any_o particular_a congregation_n will_v make_v it_o necessary_a for_o all_o the_o particular_a congregation_n join_v together_o in_o one_o visible_a society_n as_o a_o particular_a national_a church_n for_o the_o unity_n and_o peace_n of_o that_o church_n ought_v much_o more_o to_o be_v look_v after_o than_o of_o any_o one_o congregation_n p._n 131._o the_o church_n power_n as_o to_o divine_a law_n be_v only_a directive_n and_o declarative_n but_o as_o confirm_v by_o a_o civil_a sanction_n be_v juridical_a and_o obligatory_a p._n 113._o where_o any_o church_n be_v guilty_a of_o corruption_n both_o in_o doctrine_n and_o in_o practice_n which_o it_o avow_v and_o profess_v and_o require_v the_o own_v they_o as_o necessary_a condition_n of_o communion_n with_o she_o there_o a_o noncommunion_n with_o that_o church_n be_v necessary_a and_o a_o
far_o to_o heal_v we_o can_v we_o obtain_v it_o he_o say_v that_o any_o one_o that_o have_v see_v they_o know_v it_o to_o be_v a_o mistake_n to_o say_v it_o be_v publish_v by_o john_n fox_n ans_fw-fr his_o reader_n must_v be_v a_o strong_a believer_n and_o take_v much_o on_o his_o word_n 1._o i_o have_v see_v they_o and_o speak_v with_o man_n of_o great_a understanding_n that_o have_v see_v they_o that_o yet_o judge_v it_o no_o mistake_n 2._o the_o preface_n of_o the_o publisher_n be_v like_o his_o style_n 3._o it_o be_v call_v praefatio_fw-la i._n f._n and_o can_v every_o reader_n know_v that_o i._o f._n mean_v not_o john_n fox_n 4._o ordinary_a tradition_n say_v it_o be_v fox_n and_o what_o shall_v i_o soon_o believe_v in_o such_o a_o case_n instead_o of_o prove_v that_o they_o have_v all_o a_o power_n to_o their_o condemnation_n which_o we_o see_v they_o exercise_v not_o let_v he_o procure_v a_o real_a power_n declare_v and_o grant_v and_o it_o will_v do_v more_o than_o these_o word_n sect._n 23._o but_o when_o it_o come_v to_o the_o question_n whether_o i_o may_v so_o much_o as_o call_v a_o sinner_n to_o repentance_n by_o name_n before_o the_o church_n who_o reject_v all_o more_o private_a admonition_n he_o put_v the_o question_n whether_o the_o obligation_n to_o admonish_v public_o a_o offender_n or_o to_o deny_v he_o the_o sacrament_n if_o he_o will_v come_v to_o it_o be_v so_o great_a as_o to_o bear_v he_o out_o in_o the_o violation_n of_o a_o law_n make_v by_o public_a authority_n etc._n etc._n ans_fw-fr the_o first_o question_n be_v whether_o christ_n have_v not_o make_v his_o church_n so_o different_a a_o thing_n from_o the_o world_n that_o they_o shall_v be_v open_o difference_v by_o a_o communion_n of_o saint_n 2._o and_o whether_o he_o have_v not_o institute_v a_o office_n to_o judge_v of_o this_o and_o by_o government_n execute_v it_o and_o 3._o whether_o any_o man_n have_v authority_n to_o suspend_v this_o law_n or_o office_n and_o then_o 4._o i_o shall_v grant_v that_o not_o only_a discipline_n but_o preach_v and_o prayer_n and_o sacrament_n may_v be_v forbear_v hic_fw-la &_o nunc_fw-la in_o the_o present_a exercise_n when_o else_o the_o exercise_n will_v do_v more_o hurt_n than_o good_a 5._o but_o be_v these_o law_n good_a that_o forbid_v it_o and_o shall_v we_o covenant_n never_o to_o endeavour_v a_o alteration_n sect._n 24._o he_o next_o tell_v we_o of_o the_o great_a difficulty_n of_o exercise_v true_a discipline_n which_o be_v most_o true_a and_o seem_v thence_o to_o defend_v the_o forbearance_n of_o it_o with_o we_o answ_n i_o have_v in_o my_o treatise_n of_o episcopacy_n and_o oft_o prove_v that_o it_o be_v of_o great_a importance_n to_o christ_n end_n and_o that_o he_o will_v have_v it_o continue_v to_o the_o last_o and_o that_o the_o communion_n of_o saint_n be_v a_o practical_a article_n of_o faith_n and_o that_o make_v small_a difference_n between_o the_o church_n and_o the_o world_n tend_v to_o church_n destruction_n and_o to_o the_o reproach_n of_o christianity_n and_o the_o utter_a undo_n of_o million_o of_o soul_n and_o though_o pope_n and_o prelate_n have_v abuse_v it_o to_o captivate_v prince_n and_o nation_n the_o just_a use_n of_o it_o he_o know_v be_v mention_v by_o the_o universal_a church_n and_o visible_o record_v in_o the_o canon_n of_o the_o several_a age_n though_o some_o erastians_n be_v of_o late_a against_o it_o and_o jesuit_n and_o worldly_a protestant_n can_v dispense_v with_o it_o when_o it_o will_v hurt_v their_o worldly_a interest_n and_o turn_v it_o chief_o against_o god_n servant_n that_o displease_v and_o cross_v they_o sect._n 25._o p._n 284._o he_o say_v the_o want_n of_o discipline_n in_o the_o parish_n church_n be_v never_o think_v by_o old_a nonconformist_n destructive_a to_o the_o be_v of_o they_o answ_n they_o do_v not_o confound_v the_o power_n and_o the_o exercise_n nor_o what_o the_o minister_n office_n be_v indeed_o and_o from_o god_n and_o what_o it_o be_v by_o the_o bishop_n mind_n and_o rule_n of_o conformity_n i_o say_v as_o they_o 1._o the_o exercise_n may_v be_v suspend_v without_o null_v the_o power_n or_o policy_n 2._o they_o be_v true_a pastor_n and_o church_n by_o god_n will_n against_o the_o will_n of_o those_o that_o will_v degrade_v they_o sect._n 26._o but_o suppose_v every_o man_n leave_v to_o his_o own_o conscience_n for_o communion_n 1._o he_o say_v the_o great_a offender_n general_o excommunicate_v themselves_o answ_n 1._o and_o be_v it_o your_o way_n to_o leave_v all_o the_o rest_n to_o their_o conscience_n and_o yet_o to_o preach_v and_o write_v against_o and_o lay_v in_o jail_n dissent_v godly_a people_n that_o communicate_v not_o with_o you_o 2._o and_o be_v not_o all_o these_o offender_n still_o member_n of_o your_o church_n albaspineus_n complain_v of_o their_o roman_a french_a church_n that_o he_o never_o know_v any_o further_a cast_n out_o than_o from_o the_o sacrament_n and_o leave_v still_o to_o other_o part_n of_o communion_n as_o member_n and_o so_o do_v you_o by_o thousand_o who_o be_v all_o son_n of_o your_o church_n but_o we_o be_v none_o he_o be_v again_o at_o it_o what_o church_n i_o be_v of_o and_o i_o have_v tell_v he_o oft_o enough_o chap._n viii_o what_o the_o national_a church_n of_o england_n be_v sect._n 1_o according_a to_o the_o doctor_n method_n we_o come_v now_o to_o the_o explication_n of_o one_o of_o the_o term_n of_o our_o controversy_n so_o long_o and_o loud_o call_v for_o viz._n what_o the_o national_a church_n of_o england_n be_v which_o we_o must_v obey_v and_o from_o which_o we_o be_v say_v to_o separate_v p._n 287._o and_o the_o answer_n be_v such_o as_o may_v tell_v dr._n fulwood_n and_o he_o that_o its_o time_n to_o give_v over_o wonder_v that_o i_o understand_v not_o what_o they_o mean_v by_o it_o sect._n 2._o our_o question_n be_v of_o the_o church_n policy_n and_o political_n form_n all_o writer_n of_o politic_n difference_n a_o mere_a community_n from_o a_o political_a body_n this_o be_v essentiate_v of_o the_o two_o constitutive_a part_n the_o pars_fw-la regens_fw-la and_o pars_fw-la subdita_fw-la the_o former_a be_v much_o like_o the_o soul_n and_o the_o late_a the_o body_n the_o rule_v part_n be_v call_v the_o form_n by_o most_o and_o the_o sort_n monarchical_a aristocratical_a democratical_a or_o mix_v the_o form_n in_o specie_fw-la as_o the_o rational_a or_o sensitive_a soul_n to_o animal_n but_o the_o relative_n form_n be_v the_o union_n of_o both_o in_o their_o proper_a order_n such_o a_o body_n politic_a be_v a_o kingdom_n a_o city_n a_o church_n in_o the_o proper_a and_o usual_a sense_n but_o in_o a_o loose_a sense_n many_o other_o thing_n may_v be_v call_v a_o church_n as_o 1._o a_o community_n prepare_v for_o a_o govern_v form_n not_o yet_o receive_v 2._o a_o occasional_a congregation_n about_o religion_n as_o prisoner_n that_o pray_v together_o man_n that_o meet_v about_o a_o religious_a consultation_n or_o dispute_n etc._n etc._n 3._o many_o church_n as_o under_o one_o christian_a magistrate_n as_o a_o accidental_a head_n 4._o many_o church_n associate_v for_o mutual_a help_n and_o concord_n without_o any_o govern_n head_n either_o of_o one_o kingdom_n or_o of_o many_o 5._o many_o church_n as_o mere_o agree_v in_o judgement_n and_o love_n in_o distant_a part_n of_o the_o world_n none_o of_o these_o be_v church_n in_o the_o political_a sense_n but_o be_v equivocal_o so_o call_v but_o political_o 1._o all_o the_o christian_a world_n be_v one_o church_n as_o form_v by_o their_o relation_n to_o christ_n the_o head_n 2._o all_o single_a church_n that_o have_v pastor_n to_o guide_v they_o in_o the_o essential_o of_o the_o pastoral_n office_n be_v true_a church_n form_v by_o this_o mutual_a relation_n these_o two_o be_v undoubted_a 3._o the_o now_o roman_a catholic_n church_n be_v one_o by_o usurpation_n as_o inform_v by_o one_o usurp_a head_n 4._o a_o patriarchal_a church_n be_v one_o 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be_o glad_a i_o understand_v you_o §_o 12._o say_v he_o quest_n by_o what_o way_n this_o national_a consent_n be_v to_o be_v declare_v by_o the_o constitution_n of_o this_o church_n the_o arch-bishop_n bishop_n and_o presbyter_n summon_v by_o the_o king_n be_v write_v be_v to_o advise_v and_o declare_v their_o judgement_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n which_o receive_v and_o enact_v by_o parliament_n there_o be_v as_o great_a a_o national_a consent_v as_o to_o any_o law_n and_o all_o the_o bishop_n minister_n and_o people_n make_v up_o this_o national_a church_n answ_n now_o we_o be_v come_v to_o the_o bottom_n and_o 1._o our_o question_n be_v of_o the_o constitution_n of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o doctor_n tell_v we_o the_o administration_n make_v it_o to_o consult_v and_o advise_v and_o make_v law_n be_v act_n of_o administration_n and_o follow_v the_o constitution_n man_n must_v have_v power_n before_o they_o use_v it_o and_o must_v be_v a_o church_n before_o they_o act_n 〈◊〉_d church_n 2._o yea_o to_o advise_v and_o consult_v be_v not_o so_o much_o as_o act_n proper_a to_o administer_a government_n but_o belong_v to_o those_o that_o be_v no_o governor_n also_o 3._o if_o they_o be_v no_o law_n till_o the_o parliament_n make_v they_o such_o then_o either_o the_o parliament_n be_v your_o church_n head_n or_o you_o have_v none_o that_o be_v ecclesiastical_a but_o have_v your_o plain_a confession_n that_o you_o have_v no_o such_o regent_n part_n and_o so_o be_v no_o church_n political_n save_o civil_a but_o a_o mere_a association_n i_o ask_v §_o 13._o 1._o why_o do_v you_o pretend_v that_o we_o be_v none_o of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n or_o that_o we_o vent_v our_o spleen_n against_o it_o or_o deny_v it_o who_o deny_v not_o associate_v church_n in_o england_n under_o one_o civil_a government_n 2._o how_o unhappy_o be_v the_o church-defender_n and_o conformist_n disagree_v read_v mr._n dodwell_n and_o many_o such_o other_o that_o take_v the_o church_n to_o be_v a_o govern_v body_n politic_a and_o see_v what_o they_o will_v judge_n of_o you_o 3._o be_v not_o you_o and_o i_o like_a to_o be_v of_o one_o church_n of_o england_n who_o agree_v what_o it_o be_v than_o you_o and_o those_o bishop_n and_o doctor_n that_o speak_v of_o two_o different_a thing_n and_o agree_v not_o so_o much_o as_o what_o it_o be_v 4._o have_v you_o not_o bring_v your_o defence_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n to_o a_o fair_a issue_n by_o deny_v that_o there_o be_v any_o such_o church_n in_o the_o question_v political_a sense_n 5._o what_o make_v you_o before_o talk_v of_o be_v under_o one_o government_n if_o you_o mean_v only_o civil_a be_v your_o govern_v church_n as_o such_o only_a civil_a or_o a_o kingdom_n only_o 6._o do_v you_o not_o now_o absolve_v all_o man_n from_o the_o duty_n of_o obey_v the_o church_n of_o england_n a●_n such_o and_o from_o all_o guilt_n of_o disobey_v they_o how_o can_v man_n govern_v that_o be_v no_o governor_n and_o how_o can_v we_o obey_v they_o it_o be_v only_o the_o civil_a power_n than_o that_o we_o herein_o disobey_v if_o you_o say_v that_o all_o the_o bishop_n be_v governor_n and_o altogether_o govern_v the_o whole_a i_o answer_v yes_o per_fw-la part_n but_o not_o as_o a_o whole_a or_o church_n if_o twenty_o family_n in_o a_o village_n agree_v as_o master_n and_o servant_n to_o go_v one_o way_n as_o consenter_n this_o make_v no_o one_o government_n of_o the_o village_n if_o the_o physician_n of_o london_n consent_n to_o one_o pharmacopeia_n that_o make_v they_o not_o a_o body_n politic_a if_o twenty_o sea_n captain_n consent_v to_o go_v one_o voyage_n by_o one_o rule_n each_o one_o be_v a_o governor_n of_o his_o own_o ship_n but_o this_o make_v no_o government_n of_o the_o whole_a all_o the_o justice_n and_o mayor_n of_o england_n rule_v the_o kingdom_n per_fw-la part_n by_o the_o same_o law_n but_o all_o together_o make_v not_o one_o aristocracy_n to_o govern_v the_o kingdom_n as_o one_o whole_a unless_o your_o bishop_n etc._n etc._n be_v unite_v in_o one_o persona_fw-la politica_fw-la or_o aristocracy_n they_o may_v rule_v their_o several_a church_n but_o they_o make_v not_o one_o common_a government_n for_o the_o national_a church_n as_o such_o a_o agreement_n of_o the_o emperor_n spaniard_n and_o other_o confederate_n make_v not_o one_o kingdom_n or_o body_n politic_a 7._o how_o can_v they_o be_v schismatic_n for_o disobey_v they_o that_o be_v not_o their_o governor_n 8._o how_o come_v dissenter_n bind_v by_o parliament_n consent_n if_o it_o never_o be_v in_o their_o mind_n to_o trust_v they_o as_o consenter_n for_o they_o yea_o and_o declare_v their_o own_o dissent_n as_o most_o of_o the_o nation_n do_v late_o against_o prelacy_n and_o liturgy_n yea_o and_o their_o choose_a representative_n have_v such_o representative_n more_o power_n to_o express_v our_o consent_n than_o we_o ourselves_o 9_o you_o unhappy_o err_v with_o hooker_n in_o your_o popular_a politic_n if_o you_o think_v that_o the_o law_n bind_v we_o only_o because_o we_o consent_v to_o they_o by_o our_o representative_n or_o that_o as_o such_o they_o make_v they_o whereas_o it_o be_v as_o by_o consent_v in_o the_o constitution_n they_o be_v make_v part_n of_o the_o ruller_n or_o legislator_n and_o not_o mere_o as_o if_o we_o make_v the_o law_n by_o they_o 10._o and_o as_o to_o convocation_n consent_n how_o bind_v it_o all_o those_o that_o never_o consent_v to_o they_o how_o be_v the_o city_n of_o london_n so_o bind_v to_o conform_v when_o they_o have_v not_o one_o choose_a clerk_n but_o only_o the_o dignitaries_n in_o the_o convocation_n that_o make_v we_o our_o conformity_n the_o two_o choose_v by_o they_o be_v refuse_v by_o the_o bishop_n 11._o will_v not_o you_o pass_v for_o a_o asserter_n of_o the_o principle_n of_o independency_n that_o not_o only_o say_v the_o key_n be_v give_v to_o the_o whole_a body_n and_o the_o convocation_n represent_v the_o people_n etc._n etc._n but_o also_o that_o england_n be_v one_o church_n but_o by_o consent_n without_o consent_v to_o any_o one_o constitutive_a regent_n church_n head_n the_o independent_n be_v for_o a_o national_a church_n mere_o by_o confederacy_n and_o consent_n without_o national_a government_n of_o it_o 12._o you_o go_v further_o from_o the_o episcopal_a politic_n than_o the_o presbyterian_o do_v for_o they_o make_v a_o aristocratical_a regent_n part_n but_o you_o make_v none_o 13._o i_o doubt_v some_o statesman_n will_v be_v angry_a with_o you_o that_o say_v there_o be_v no_o power_n of_o church_n government_n in_o england_n but_o from_o the_o king_n as_o head_n as_o crumpt●●_n before_o cousin_n table_n and_o other_o ordinary_o 14._o do_v you_o make_v england_n in_o essential_o any_o more_o one_o church_n than_o england_n and_o any_o foreigner_n agree_v be_v one_o do_v the_o synod_n of_o d●rt_n make_v we_o one_o with_o they_o do_v large_a council_n make_v many_o nation_n one_o church_n do_v the_o heptarchy_n make_v england_n one_o kingdom_n when_o seven_o king_n govern_v the_o whole_a by_o part_n but_o none_o the_o whole_a as_o such_o 15._o i_o beseech_v you_o think_v what_o you_o have_v do_v against_o the_o parochial_a diocesane_n and_o provincial_a church_n in_o england_n have_v none_o of_o these_o have_v not_o each_o of_o these_o a_o regent_n constitutive_a part_n be_v none_o of_o they_o true_a church_n in_o sensu_fw-la politico_fw-la you_o dare_v not_o say_v no._n if_o they_o be_v you_o have_v say_v that_o visible_a church_n as_o part_n unavoidable_o require_v a_o visible_a head_n to_o the_o whole_a by_o which_o i_o bring_v in_o the_o pope_n because_o you_o think_v christ_n will_v not_o serve_v the_o turn_n and_o do_v you_o not_o say_v that_o all_o these_o church_n be_v part_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o if_o you_o deny_v it_o to_o have_v one_o regent_n part_n do_v you_o not_o then_o either_o destroy_v the_o rest_n or_o use_v the_o name_n church_n equivocal_o to_o these_o several_a sort_n so_o heterogeneal_a 16._o i_o pray_v you_o tell_v we_o from_o who_o our_o archbishop_n receive_v their_o power_n if_o you_o say_v from_o the_o bishop_n and_o so_o inferior_n or_o equal_n may_v give_v power_n why_o may_v not_o presbyter_n make_v presbyter_n or_o bishop_n and_o generare_fw-la speciem_fw-la if_o it_o must_v come_v from_o superior_n the_o church_n of_o england_n have_v none_o such_o 17._o if_o the_o people_n consent_n can_v make_v a_o national_a church_n why_o may_v it_o not_o make_v a_o independent_a or_o presbyterian_a church_n 18._o if_o the_o nation_n consent_n as_o such_o make_v the_o church_n of_o england_n it_o be_v not_o make_v by_o legislative_a power_n of_o king_n and_o parliament_n 19_o do_v the_o clergy_n represent_v the_o king_n or_o be_v he_o none_o of_o the_o church_n 20._o how_o prove_v you_o that_o the_o
clergy_n represent_v the_o laity_n in_o the_o convocation_n 21._o by_o your_o rule_n if_o divers_a party_n of_o christian_n agree_v to_o set_v up_o divers_a form_n of_o church-government_n with_o mutual_a forbearance_n they_o will_v be_v one_o national_a church_n and_o so_o will_v episcopal_n presbyterian_o and_o independent_n if_o the_o law_n allow_v they_o all_o 22._o be_v the_o church_n of_o england_n the_o same_o thing_n in_o the_o day_n of_o h._n 8._o ed._n 6._o q._n marry_o q._n eliz._n etc._n etc._n 23._o who_o make_v national_a church_n in_o absolute_a hereditary_a monarchy_n where_o be_v no_o parliament_n to_o signify_v popular_a consent_n 24._o if_o every_o law_n of_o order_n be_v essential_a to_o your_o church_n few_o conformist_n be_v of_o it_o if_o only_o the_o true_a essential_o why_o be_v not_o we_o also_o of_o it_o 25._o how_o ill_o agree_v you_o with_o mr._n cheny_n who_o make_v it_o atheism_n infidelity_n blasphemy_n impiety_n to_o assert_v church-making_a consent_n or_o confederacy_n beside_o baptism_n 26._o but_o the_o best_a be_v you_o leave_v we_o in_o hope_n of_o reformation_n for_o if_o parliament_n will_v but_o consent_v for_o we_o to_o take_v down_o diocesanes_n lower_v and_o to_o reform_v parish-church_n and_o alter_v liturgy_n etc._n etc._n we_o be_v the_o national_a church_n still_o and_o one_o prevail_a vote_n may_v prove_v we_o all_o consenter_n and_o make_v the_o church_n quite_o another_o thing_n §_o 14._o yet_o he_o say_v page_z 299._o by_o this_o description_n any_o one_o may_v see_v how_o easy_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v distinguish_v from_o the_o papist_n on_o one_o side_n and_o the_o dissenter_n on_o the_o other_o answ_n i_o be_o one_o and_o i_o can_v see_v it_o nor_o so_o much_o as_o see_v how_o to_o know_v the_o church_n itself_o nor_o who_o be_v a_o member_n of_o it_o nor_o how_o any_o man_n can_v know_v it_o but_o he_o seem_v to_o i_o to_o make_v it_o a_o church_n invisible_a but_o i_o see_v the_o dissenter_n must_v be_v none_o of_o it_o 1._o how_o be_v the_o church_n of_o england_n know_v from_o papist_n in_o the_o begin_n of_o h._n 8._o or_o in_o the_o middle_n or_o in_o the_o end_n or_o how_o know_v when_o it_o begin_v how_o be_v it_o know_v in_o the_o begin_n of_o queen_n elizabeth_n day_n when_o the_o papist_n come_v to_o church_n or_o now_o as_o to_o church-papists_a how_o shall_v we_o know_v to_o which_o church_n the_o late_a bishop_n bramhall_n and_o other_o doctor_n belong_v who_o will_v have_v the_o pope_n govern_n we_o according_a to_o the_o canon_n as_o patriarch_n of_o the_o west_n &_o principium_fw-la unitatatis_fw-la universalis_fw-la and_o all_o go_v for_o schismatic_n that_o deny_v it_o some_o call_v this_o the_o new-church_n of_o england_n differ_v from_o the_o old_a one_o which_o be_v before_o bishop_n laud._n 2._o how_o shall_v one_o know_v how_o far_o consent_n be_v necessary_a to_o a_o member_n and_o dissent_n unchurch_v he_o late_o a_o doctor_n be_v accuse_v for_o say_v he_o scruple_v to_o call_v the_o king_n according_a to_o the_o liturgy_n our_o most_o religious_a king_n mr._n jowl_n of_o sarral_n be_v suspend_v for_o not_o often_o wear_v the_o surplice_n and_o deny_v to_o pray_v in_o the_o litany_n for_o our_o most_o gracious_a queen_n katherine_n and_o james_z duke_n of_o york_n but_o these_o be_v small_a dissent_n the_o sense_n be_v the_o church_n law_n and_o doctrine_n and_o not_o the_o sound_n of_o word_n in_o various_a sense_n i_o have_v oft_o show_v in_o how_o many_o contrary_a sense_n the_o conformist_n take_v the_o 39_o article_n the_o liturgy_n the_o word_n of_o subscription_n and_o declaration_n and_o the_o oath_n impose_v how_o shall_v one_o know_v among_o all_o these_o who_o be_v or_o be_v not_o of_o your_o church_n when_o you_o tell_v we_o that_o it_o be_v agree_v in_o the_o faith_n government_n and_o worship_n which_o be_v establish_v by_o law_n and_o then_o speak_v so_o hot_o against_o the_o need_n and_o be_v of_o any_o 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which_o be_v those_o and_o all_o those_o and_o only_o those_o essential_o i_o never_o meet_v with_o man_n that_o pretend_v to_o know_v they_o and_o therefore_o never_o meet_v with_o man_n that_o can_v thus_o tell_v whether_o he_o be_v of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n or_o not_o nor_o that_o can_v tell_v of_o other_o and_o who_o be_v not_o 2._o to_o say_v it_o must_v be_v consent_n also_o in_o the_o integral_n that_o be_v necessary_a ad_fw-la esse_fw-la be_v a_o contradiction_n and_o be_v to_o make_v integral_n essential_o to_o say_v that_o it_o must_v be_v consent_n in_o all_o law_n of_o accident_n also_o be_v to_o make_v that_o a_o essential_a part_n which_o be_v no_o part_n our_o loose_a confound_a disputer_n when_o they_o have_v lose_v the_o truth_n in_o such_o contradiction_n may_v say_v as_o mr._n dodwell_n do_v to_o i_o that_o i_o cavil_v but_o will_v that_o answer_n help_v down_o all_o absurdity_n with_o reasonable_a man_n it_o be_v plain_a that_o as_o the_o papist_n 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