Selected quad for the lemma: nation_n
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A41785
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The prisoner against the prelate, or, A dialogue between the common goal [ie. gaol] and Cathedral of Lincoln wherein the true faith and Church of Christ are briefly discovered & vindicated ... / written by a prisoner of the baptised churches in Lincolnshire.
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Grantham, Thomas, 1634-1692.
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1662
(1662)
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Wing G1543; ESTC R14165
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45,998
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94
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as thou oppos'd it in your pride Jayle I know thy Conscience tells thee there is need Of FAITH to give admittance to the Seed Of Christians unto Gospel-Sacraments For of thy Doctrine these are the Contents That Faith and true Repentance are expected Of all ere they to Bapti'm are elected Cathederal 'T is true I say Faith and Repentance are Requir'd of All as needful to prepare Them unto Baptisme but then you know Sith Infants cannot do this I allow Them Sureties who for them do then Believe And eke Repent before I them receive Jayle Well now you grant Repentance joyn'd with Faith Must be before any Admittance hath Into the Church TO THIS I DO AGREE So that the Difference 'twixt thâ—e and me Is this thou cal'st Grown Persons to Repent And then Baptisest a poor Innocent Cathederal Though this I hold 't is not a Noval thing For proof of this Authorities I 'll bring From Antient times which are irrefragable At least they 'r such as thou canst not disable The Wisdom of the Church did Infants give This Priviledge that they for aye might live Jayle This Doctrine is too new to be esteem'd True or Perpetual though by you deem'd Of such great worth Reduce this false account For it to more than nought will ne're amount O Rotten Church not now one member's known When he 's Unchurch'd to have Faith of his own Cathederal Thou lay'st so great a stress on this one Point As if 't would prove each member out of Joynt What must my Doctrine stand or fall as here I Vanquished or Victor do appear Sure though this ground I yeeld I never shall To ruine in my Church or Doctrine fall Jayle Well yeeld this ground then thou hast no faiâ—h When th' art enchurched so thou maist be grath Thou art foundationsess therefore must fall For what 's anothers Faith a rotten Wall For thee to lean upon wherefore I say This false Prop gon thy Church soon fades away Cathederal That Doctrine which I preach for a Foundation Is Christ as Crucifi'd for mans Salvation There is no Name nor Thing whereon I found My Church save this wherefore my Root issound 'T is neither Baptisme nor yet Sureties Which a Foundation-place for me supplies Jayle Alas what 's all this Talk if without Faith Which I have shew'd none of thy Members hath At their Admission nor for many Years The least lota of true Faith appears This is thy State O Minster at the best Anothers not thy own Faith which thou hast Cathederal I told thee I can prove what here I hold To be the same the Church receiv'd of old As that 's my Task and were my Study here I 'de shew this Custom 'bove One thousand year The Church hath used wherefore 't is no new Devised Fable but a Point most true Jayle No Study can accommodate thee so As to prove Sponsers Faith the Means which do Give any entrance in a Scripture way Into Christs Church wherefore I boldly say 'T is a meer Novalty and did arise When darkness came by means of Heresies Cathederal I see thou standst upon Antiquity Only as Scripture doth it amplify From whence I must confess an Evidence Cannot in terminis be fetched thence But let us hear what further thou canst say Against the use of Sponsers Faith this day Jayle I note this further as a consequence Of what thou 'st said me thinks it follows thence That Infants must sit down at Christ his Table If others Faith to Baptism them enable For can the Church in this their wants supply And not in that This soundeth monstrously Cathederal The Case is not alike for God requires A Self-examination and desires Men should the Body of our Lord discern When they approach that holy Rite to learn That so they may not drink their Condemnation In that which is ordain'd for Consolation Jayle 'T is true God call for this then pray thee why Canst thou not learn these Reasons to apply To holy Baptisme in which our Lord More Frequently requires Faith in his Word With true Repentance thus these Cases are Alike made manifest and so appear Cathederal The Churches Judgment doth the one allow And not the other unto Infants Now Either the Church or thou O Jayle must be Deceived but canst thou more clearly see Than she who hath the eye of Learning bright Sure no then cease against the Church to fight Jayle How like to Rome is this thy Argument Dost thou not know that this same Sacrament Was also given to Infants in Old time Sure there 's as plain a ground for this as thine Alleag'd for Infant-Baptism hence 't is clear As th' one so th' other thou should'st quite forbear Cathederal I know that Rome this Argument doth bring To force us when the Text saith no such thing And sure the Churches Judgment will out-weigh The private Judgement of such as inveigh Against her doings and I 'll hold me here Until a means of greater strength appear Jayle Admit the Sentence of the Church be great In things most doubtful yet I must entreat Thee not to use it till thou 'st proved plain Thy self to be that Church Yet here again I needs must tell thee That the Doctors all Engag'd ' gainst Rome about thine ears do fall Cathederal Some of my Doctors sang a Strain too high When in this Point engag'd ' gainst Popery I likewise grant before this Plea be mine I must as a true Church conspicuous shine Which I shall do ere this Discourse have end Then to the next Objection let 's descend CHAP. II. The Arg. 'Gainst Nations by the Lump For Churches being made The Jayle Disputes the Minster strives T' uphold that golden Trade Jayle MY next Objection O Cathederal Is this Christ hath no Church that 's National But Nationall thy Church is known to be Ergo Not Christ's Church but a Pedigree Of Persons yet unfit for Church-Communion Though thou with them and they with thee have Union Cathederal Fond Jayle didst never read what David said In Psalm the second were description's made Of Christ his Church to have her propagation Amongst the Gentiles to their utmost Nations And when the Kingdom was tane from the Jewes 'T was given unto a Nation Scripture shews Jayle Peter doth well expound the second Psalm In Acts the tenth when sent with Gospel-Balm Unto Cesaria where Gods acceptation Extends to such as fear him in each Nation In Peters time no Church was National Yet Holy Nation Peter doth her call Cathederal So then it seems the Church is National But by a Figure Metaphorical Consisting but of such as joyntly hold A Union in those Laws which are enrol'd In Divine Writ as touching Church-affairs I like not this for it my Pomp impairs Jayle Christ saith The Gospel would Divisions cause Such as were not occasion'd by the Laws Of Moses for in Families there should Two this three that three this and two that hold But
hands being sent to a Friend of mine The party sending it supposing it gave very clear evidence against the Anabaptists I therefore searched what it said in that respect and found in their Answer to the ninth Question the very thing which we hold in the point of Baptism clearly asseâ—ted and proved The Question and Answer are verbatim as followeth Question What are the publick means which Christ hath appointed to Salvation Answer Christ hath appointed that fit men shall be ordained his Ministers to disciple the uncalled and to baptise all that are Disciples Mat. 28. 19 20. Mark 16. 15. This is all they say in that Book concerning Baptism nor quote they any other Scriptures whereupon I wrote is followeth What! shall nigh fixty of wise learned men Yea of the prime be contradicted when After no small debate they published This Book which seems with Zeal and Truth bespred Our Catechisers grave learned all How can a work by such performed fall Good Reader bow thine heart to understand What 's true though 't be from an unlearned hand The wisdom of the wise must come to nought For so it was foretold and now is brought In part to pass since thus much may be said Ev'n of these men they quite destroy the trade Of their so much adored baptizing Of Infants Wherefore them this song I 'l sing Our Catechisers must be catechiz'd How and what persons ought to be baptiz'd For here they lie i' th dark and will not see What 's true what 's false though by themselves it be Made manifest in this their little Book To every Reader who doth please to look In page the one and thirtieth where they say Concerning Baptising This is Christ's Way That such as are uncall'd must first be taught Now Infants are uncall'd and therefore ought By their direction not to be baptized And yet as though all this had not sufficed They further tell us All that are Disciples Baptiz'd must be into the sacred Titles Of Father Son and Spirit Then they cite Mathew the eight twenteth which gives light With Mark the sixteenth full to what they say And we say th' same and thus they cast away Their Infant Baptisme sith Infants can Be no Disciples made by th' wisest man That is amongst this Catalogue I mean Or else their skill is more than we have seen For sith Disciple doth import a Learner By others teaching he 's a weak discerner That taketh new-born Infants for to be Disciples Thus we may mans folly see Cathederal As for the Presbyters let them maintain Their plea. But for Tradition 't is most plain It stands with me And tho thou hast now shown Some few who did thy way of Baptism own Thou dost not prove that ever these men taught ' Gainst Infant Baptisme yet this thou ought To shew but this can in no wise be shown For 't is most clear they did my Baptim own Jayl Because I hate disingenuity I grant some Antients did with thee comply But yet I say th'most Antient if not all Such doctrine taught as doth in question call Thy Infant Baptisme And some did so Oppose it that their lives they did forgo In opposition to it in our Nation When first upon our Land it made invasion But ere I come to speak of these sad dayes We 'll cast our eye on some doctrinal rayes Of th' Antients that the mist they may expel And clear our way First Jerom doth us tell The Lord commanded first to teach and then Baptise such as appeared faithful men And Justin Martyr doth the same avow And Athanasius doth that truth allow Haimo avoucheth this for verity And Rabinus the same doth testifie Beda is of this mind and plainly saith Th' Apostles did instruct men in the Faith And then baptise them So Strigelius Did likewise teach So did Eusebius Basil and Austin do this Doctrine own Cyprian before them did the same make known With others whom I now refuse to name Sith these are persons of the greatest fame And now O Minster pray thee well observe What strength I have from Records which preserve The mem'ry of our Nations first reception Of Gospel-light see therefore this collection Out of Fabian his right ancient story In the fifth part where though he greatly glory Of that great Monk Augustine call'd by name Yet unto his and thy no little shame He doth confess that Brittons Bishops did Refuse to baptise Infants tho much chid By that great Monk Their reason was they say Such things had not been taught them till that day Yet they the Gospel long before obeyed And in the love thereof were firm and stayed But now alas for this their just denyal Of Austins motion they strait met with tryal For Fabian relates how they were slain And Fox upon Augustine layes the blame At least in part and can assign no cause But that they did not bow to Austins Laws Now Minster if we take the perfect time When in this Land the Gospel first did shine Which was more than four hundred years before Austin the Monk set foot upon our shore During which time no persons were baptized That I can find till they were catechised Then 't is most clear my Baptism thine out dates Four hundred years as Fabian relates In this our Island and in other places Mine hath the old foot-steps thine noval traces But why do I thy doing daign to name Baptisme for in truth it is a shame For to vouchsafe it such an appellation Only I use it ' cause our disputation Doth so require But Sprinkling never can Suit with God's Word delivered unto man For his direction in that Ordinance Of Baptizontes sith that clear instance In John the third and twenty third hath said The Reason why John Baptist us'd his trade In Enon was because of plenitude Of Water which doth Sprinkling Clear exclude From being Baptisme As also doth The act of Philip and the Eunuch both Sith both went into th' Water for to act What Baptisme requires in th' outward fact Yea Christ our Lord who knew the Father's will Went Into Water Baptism to fulfill Now whether Scripture or thy Doctors be The safest guide herein I leave to thee Cathedral Doubtless O Jayl in this bend of quotations Thou' rt guilty of no small falsifications I ask thee whether thou hast read each Father Whose words in this sort thou hast scratch'd together If not as doubtless not sith thou' rt unlearned O how presumptuous then art thou discerned Jayle I answer freely some I 've read not all The Works of these whose witness forth I call The most I 've read even as they are translated By those to whom thy self art ' sociated Which therefore must more claim thy estimation Than if they were the fruit of my translation Cathederal Whereas my Sprinkling thou so ill dost brook Thou mayst remember if thou please to look Into