Selected quad for the lemma: nation_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
nation_n	call_v	church_n	national_a	2,044	5	11.4074	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A25215	The mischief of impositions, or, An antidote against a late discourse, partly preached at Guild-hall Chappel, May 2, 1680, called The mischief of separation	Alsop, Vincent, 1629 or 30-1703.	1680 (1680)	Wing A2917; ESTC R16170	115,195	136

impossible to be attained till men are convinced of the evil and danger of the present Impositions and the Dr. was once of that mind when he proved so learnedly Iren. p. 1 2. That things necessary for the Churches peace must be clearly revealed Which principle had he and others adhered to his Weapon-salve for the Churches wounds had been as common and famous as the sympathetical Powder which Sir K. Digby assures us is in France successfully practised by every Barber But why is Union impossible but upon such conviction Is it impossible for the same Power that imposed these severe conditions of Union to relax and remit them We use to say Eodem modo quo quid Instituitur destituitur There 's no more goes to Repeal a Law than to Enact it Nay it 's more possible for our Ecclesiasticks to wave what they confess indifferent than for the Laity to comply with what they judg sinful But if inexorable stiffness has made their condescention impossible who created the impossibility If Union as matters now stand is become desperate who put matters into that desperate posture It 's unreasonable that any should create a necessity of separation and then complain of an impossibility of union but 't is easily observed that men to conciliate repute to their own humors call what they have a mind to absolutely necessary and that to which they bear an aversion simply impossible The Grandees of the Church knew full well that the generality of the Nation who seriously attended Religion had contracted such principles as either condemned the Ceremonious appendages as sinful or unuseful and therefore sinful because unuseful they knew well also that these Impositions had lost much of that stock of credit upon which they had formerly set up for themselves and driven a pretty trade among us They must needs know too that to perpetuate the old Conditions would be but to perpetuate old divisions and create new ones why then would they venture so precious a lading as Peace in that old worm-eaten bottom wherein it must certainly miscarry But if it be impossible to attain Union at cheaper rates with men we must look up to Him to whom nothing is impossible who can open their eyes to see the things that belong to our common peace and in the mean time enable us to discharge the things that belong to our duty and bear those evils which shall attend them What a fine world now must moderate and unconcerned Christians have between these two some have sworn to endeavour a Reformation according to the word of God and others seem to have taken a solemn Oath never to come up to that Rule and between them both Vnion is impossible Well! say what we will or can it 's impossible to attain a lasting Vnion till Dissenters are convinc'd of the evil of their Separation Pray then convince them of it That he will do with a wet finger for the present Separation says the Doctor is carried on by such principles as not only overthrow the present constitution of our Church but any other whatsoever If that be the worst on 't we 'l endeavour to carry it on by better principles that shall overthrow neither will that please him But what if I should return that the present Impositions are supported by such principles as will divide not only our Church but any Church whatsoever This would be but a Rowland for his Oliver And I am somewhat confident that fairer probabilities may be offer'd for this Assertion than the other for as to matter of fact it 's most evident that from the first Infancy of the Gospel-state when the Church was in its Minority of years and Adult state of perfection to this very day nothing has more disorder'd the outward face of the Church than the Lordly Imperious Imposition of dubious matters Thus the Judaizing Dogmatizers who would stretch all mens Consciences to their own Last and compel them to a conformity to the antiquated Law of Moses began the brawl and their successors in pride have danced after their measures to the World's confusion Nor has any Engine of the Devil more batter'd and shaken the well-compacted Walls of God's Jerusalem than these roaring Ecclesiastical Canons And if we examine the principles upon which they proceed in exacting these unnecessary and doubtful terms of Union we shall find them the very same upon which proud Rome has introduced the whole Lirry of her superstitious Observances viz. an unaccountable power in those that are the Top to make them do and say any thing that are at the Bottom in which Observances and upon which Principle the Christian World never yet united and it 's more than probable never will But I intend not to confront but modestly examine the truth of the Doctor 's Assertion namely Whether the present Separation be carried on by such principles as not only overthrow the present Constitution of our Church but of any other whatsoever And there are two Inquiries I shall make upon this subject First Whether the principles by which the Separation is carried on will destroy any other Church Which if it be true and that the Dissenting-Churches are built upon such mouldering foundations such self-destroying principles it is next to miracle that they should yet stand and neither fall with their own weakness nor the weight of Oppression wherewith they have been surcharged that they should be continually batter'd with violence from without and undermined by policy from beneath and yet no considerable breach be made in their intrinsick Frame and Constitution Now to put this Question out of all question I will make a reasonable motion Leave the Dissenters quietly to overthrow themselves by their own bad principles and so shall the Church of England avoid the odium of Persecution which of late has no very good name and the Separators as Felones de se shall be condemned to have a stake driven through them who like the foolish woman pluckt down their own house upon their own heads with their own hands Give them but respite from outward fury and commit them to be crumbled to nothing by the inconsistency of their own principles and they must lay upon themselves not the Church the guilt of their own destruction The Dissenters have outlived one twenty years of vexation and if men could be quiet may outlive twenty more and in time outgrow all their weaknesses so that it may tempt an Impartial Considerer to think their present constitution immortal which no outward assaults no inward Schisms has been able to dissolve There are two things usually pleaded for the souls Immortality the one that it 's not compounded of Contraries such as by intestine jars may dissolve its essence The other that it 's not obnoxious to external Impressions such as may storm and break in piece● its powers And on both those accounts the Dissenters humbly hope their Congregations may prove Immortal seeing they have not felt utter ruine from

means for if they be true Churches of Christ his ill meaning will not deprive them if they be not so his good meaning will not give them a power to reform themselves 2. It may be quaeried how those Churches of the nations which separated from the Roman Empire came by this great priviledge to reform and govern themselves more than others for if it be an inherent power and right all Churches have it if not who could give it to some more than others 3. We should be glad to see what right to govern and reform themselves was given by the Scripture to national Churches which yet the Doctor affirms It had been very convenient to have proved their Being from Scripture before he asserted their right and power And it will make men admire that the Scripture should give a right to such Churches as it never knew 4. And if the Churches of those nations that were incorporated into national Churches upon the decay of the Roman Empire did by consent embody for their own preservation it can hardly be believed that they design'd their own destruction that is that those particular Churches should grant a power to National Ecclesiastical Governours that would deprive them of that power that they had within themselves For as it cannot be imagined that ever any number of families would embody to set a civil Governour over them and entrust him with a power that would destroy propriety or take away paternal authority or the just power of Masters over Servants so neither can we suppose in a dream that particular Churches should agree to unite in such a national frame as should destroy the power of the Pastors and Elders of the particular assemblies so as they should be but the Curates and their Churches but Chappels of to the Cathedrals and Bishops which were prudential Creatures erected meerly by their own consent 5. To say that the Church of Macedonia would have been National if from being a Roman province it had become a Christian Kingdom is to say thus much and no more That there would have been a national Church in Macedonia but for a small inconvenience that there was none 6. And to say that the several Churches of the Lydian or proconsular Asia would have been a National Church if they had been united in one Kingdom and governed by the same authority under the same Rules is to say just as much that is nothing or nothing to the purpose for the uniting of several Churches under one Prince who governs them by the same Authority and Rules will not make one Church 7. And what strange kind of Churches were they who having assumed their just right of Government did then own Christianity and then incorporate into one Church where had they their just right of Government before their owning of Christianity 8. And if these particular Churches of Nations had power to incorporate into one National Church then the particular Churches are of Christs institution and these National Churches only prudential contrivances for common security and then it will follow that the National could have no power but what was freely given them by the particular Churches which cannot be imagined was ever given to their own Annihilation or rendring them meerly titular and perhaps they may resume their right when as weighty reasons do appear for the resumption as ever there were for their resignation 9. And if these particular Churches have so far devolved all the intrinsick power which Christ vested them with upon the National frame and constitution that they cannot now govern themselves reform themselves or exert the power which they sometimes had and enjoyed then have they unchurched themselves and remain only so much matter without form and then it can be no schism to separate from them since all corruptions among them must be immortal when they have foolishly quitted the power of reforming themselves except the National Church pleases This word Church has made a great noise in the world and we hear every moment what wonders what miracles the Church can do Now there 's a natural curiosity in all men to see that person or thing that boasts of this wonder-working power and accordingly we would gladly be acquainted with this body called Church To satisfie our Humour the Doctor tells us That the true Notion of a Church is no more than a society of men united together for their order and government according to the Rules of the Christian Religion which description I perceive marvelously edifies all that hear it For a Parliament is a society of men and of men united and united for their order and government and truly I believe according to the Rules of the Christian Religion Quare now whether the Parliament of England be not the Church of England I humbly conceive the Doctor fell asleep in the next words It 's a great mistake says he to make a Church barely to relate to Acts of Worship and consequently that the true Notion of a Church is an Assembly for Divine Worship For never certainly was any so bereaved of common sense as to assert that this is the adaequate Notion of a Church It had been civil to have quoted some one obscure Nonconformist that in some Book which none ever read but the Doctor has asserted such an Absurdity We say that the Publick Worship of God is one of the Ends of uniting into a Church Society but not the onely End and to exclude Worship as the Doctor seems to do in his description is as bad if not worse than to exclude Discipline and Government But we agree that Worship is not the onely End there must be Government Discipline exercised in every Church what will the Doctor gain by all this but that our Parochial Churches are not true Churches And when the Doctor says further There must be some other Bond to unite Churches some other besides Worship I cannot enough admire at the absurdity of the expression seeing Worship is not the Bond but the End of Union It has been familiar with this Reverend and Learned Person having been employ'd in more important Controversies either to mistake or misrepresent the Notions and Principles of the Dissenters for so I find him Answ to several Treatises p. 180 181. laying this down as a fundamental Principle of those who separate from the Church of England as to Worship wherein the difference lies that nothing is lawful in the Worship of God but what he has expresly commanded And at the bottom of the same Page he repeats the same thing with the same confidence wherein the Doctor treads in the steps of Archbishop Whitgift and he must tread in his steps if ever he reach Lambeth who in his answer to the Admonition does charge the Puritans to hold That nothing was lawful in Worship but what was expresly commanded in the Word of God upon no better ground than that the Admonition had said nothing is lawful in Worship but what God has

commanded To this Mr. Cartwright replies Is this to interpret mens words Are these Phrases equipollent Commanded and expresly commanded Many things are forbidden many things commanded which are neither expresly commanded or forbidden We say not no Ceremony no Order no Discipline is lawful in the Church but what is expresly found in the Word of God but that men may not act arbitrariously that they are bound to conform themselves to the general Rules of the Scripture which are given forth as a Rule by which to square all Religious matters Thus far Mr. Cartwright And so do we openly and freely own that direct immediate consequence from Scripture or whatever is included in the general Rules of Scripture shall conclude and determine us in these disputes Here again the Doctor thinks he has gravelled us with an unanswerable question If saies he it be mutual consent and agreement which makes a Church why then may not national Societies agreeing together in the same faith and under the same government and discipline be as truly and properly a Church as any particular Congregation I will tell him why if he please to hear me out with patience 1. Because it is not mutual consent and agreement and alone in the general but such agreement and consent as the Gospel warrants which we have for particular Churches which were well known to the Scriptures but not for National to which constitution the Scriptures are perfect strangers 2. Because the end of that consent and agreement must be considered and looked at which is union for worship though not for worship alone to which end national union signifies nothing seeing that a National Church unless it be a Church no larger than the Kingdom of Ivetot can never meet together for that end 3. Because the particular Churches must consent to nothing that may destroy their own government and power of reforming whatever corruptions by length of time steal and creep in among them But if his meaning be that they may be called a Church it 's little to us what he shall please to call them seeing we do not intend to draw the Saw of contention about the Nomenclature of that or any other Body From reasoning the Doctor proceeds to wondring at those who cannot tell what is meant by the Church of England and he will inform their ignorance concerning it We mean saies he That society of Christian people which in this Nation are united under the same profession of faith the same laws of government and Rules of divine worship Whence it will follow that the Churches of dissenters are each of them the Church of England For every one of them is 1. A society of Christian people though perhaps in his judgment but bad ones yet as good as their Neighbours 2. They are in this Nation though full sore against some mens wills who would have them removed by Capital punishments or banishment 3. They are united under the same profession of faith that is one half of them are not Socinians or Arminians and the other half Calvinists 4. They are united under the same laws of Government 5. And they have the same Rules of divine worship And then it follows too by the Doctor 's concession they have a right of governing each Church its own self and of reforming errors in Doctrine and corruptions in worship Notwithstanding this famous definition what man is the wiser or knows more than he did before what the Church of England is For 1. We understand not by this Description who is the visible head of this Church whether a civil or ecclesiastical person and by consequence are at a loss whether the Church may be called a civil or ecclesiastical constitution 2. We are not informed how this National Church became so united whether they were driven together by violence or drew together by their consent whether it was not some storm or tempest that might jostle them all on a heap or whether the consent of the particular Congregations was asked and obtained in order to this coalition We have seen some Churches in this nation that have had their Pastors torn from them and the Sheep scattered strangers obtruded upon others whose persons they knew not whose ministerial gifts they had no trial of and all his right to them was that he was nominated by a certain Gentleman called the Patron and the institution of the Diocesan and if with their consent it was such a one as was obtained by duress and do well call this uniting what was it then which united them why some of the Ministers of the Parochial Churches met together and chose one or two out of their number and sent them up to a convocation and these meeting with some others they call Archbishops and Bishops Deans c. agreed upon a national Church-frame without the least consent of many of the particular Churches And this is the too much boasted Union 2 Another thing he would have us consider is He does not intend to speak of the Terms upon which persons are to be admitted to the exercise of the function of the Ministry but of the Terms of Lay-communion And it was advisedly done for if it be so difficult to render Lay-communion practicable what will it be to justifie all those terms upon which Ministers are admitted to the function of the Ministry or the exercise of it But why does he mention the exercise of the function and not the function it self Do they use to ordain Ministers to a Ministerial work and then prohibit them to exercise the work of their ministry till further order Must men pay for an Order to Act and then be put to purchase another order that they may act according to their order surely one of these fees might have been saved and it might have been sufficient either to buy a License to preach without ordination or an ordination to preach without a License The Country Chancellors are more merciful who do not usually that I hear of sell a man a License to marry and then Compel him to take another License to lie with his Bride It is confessed that the Terms upon which Ministers are admitted to their function and the exercise of it are more severe than those upon which the Laity as they love to call them are admitted to communion in the word and Sacraments and there might be reason for it seeing the Laity held no good fat Parsonages that might tempt any to eject them But yet the Terms are not such easie things of digestion but they lie upon the stomachs of thousands to this day and some of them are as hard to swallow as the biggest gobblets that are imposed upon the Clergy and they are apt to think that the same terms that are imposed upon their Pastors are imposed upon themselves by consequence seeing they approve interpretatively their Ministers subscriptions their declarations their oaths by owning them for their Pastors whom they know upon such terms to have