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A19361 A theological dialogue Wherin the Epistle of S. Paul the Apostle to the Romanes is expounded. Gathered and set together out of the readings of Antonie Corranus of Siuille, professor of Diuinitie.; Dialogus theologicus. English Corro, Antonio del, 1527-1591. 1575 (1575) STC 5786; ESTC S116682 133,197 376

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them Also he blameth the Iewes for that they had not kept the Law but rather dishonored God by breaking the Law And so he rebuketh both parts aswell Iewes as Gētiles shetteth thē vp vnder the iniquity of trāsgressiō to shewe that all men are made felowlike and alike gyltie and that they haue neede of redemption Agayne that there was iust cause of the calling of the Gentiles he sheweth by this that grace and redemption ought to befall alike both to the Iewes and to the Gentiles and that when the Gentiles were called circumcision and the shadowe of the Lawe did of necessitie ceasse For Abraham sayth he beeing iustified not in Circumcision but before Circumcision was named Abraham bicause it should come to passe that he should be made the father of many Nations according to the fayth which he had when he was vncircumcised And after that he was iustified he receiued circumcision in his flesh as a signe to his ofspring that shoulde be borne of him as concerning the flesh that circumcision should ceasse when the Gentiles should become the children of Abraham begin to liue according to Abrahams fayth wherethrough he was iustified when he was yet vncircumcised For whereas he was called Abram before in respect of these things he was nowe called Abraham And it was requisite that the signe should ceasse when the things that were betokened by it were come Wherefore if any body compell the Gentiles to be Circumcised they must of necessitie bothe take from him the name of Abraham and call him Abram Now seeing he was named Abraham by God the Gentiles must not bee circumcised neither must the Jewes haue the foreskin of their flesh cut of to the intent that the name Abraham may abide stedfast and he be called the Father of many Nations For it is not to be borne with hereafter that any man should be circumcised seeing that the fayth of Abraham suffiseth and there is no neede of any shadowe of the Lawe For no man is iustified by such things but by fayth as Abraham was When he hath proued these things after this fashion he sheweth agayne that neither Israell nor the Gentiles can obteyne redemption and grace by any other meanes than by beeing quit of that auncient and originall sinne that is spred into all men by Adam But that can not be wiped away by other than by the sonne of God by whome also the curse was made from the beginning For it was not possible that any other body should discharge that trespasse Afterward he writeth that that thing was not done by any other meanes than that the sonne of God tooke fleshe vpon him and became man that he might deliuer all men from death by offering vp the same body for all which was subiect to the same sufferings that wee bee And like as by one man sinne entred into the worlde so also by one man grace came vpon all men From thēcefoorth as a good steward he comforteth the Jewes telling thē that they shall not be transgressers of the Law if they beleeue in Christ and warneth suche of the Gentiles as beleeued that they should not be puffed vp agaynst the Israelites but consider that as the boughes are grafted into a tree so were they grafted into the Jewes When he hath finished these things he addeth exhortations to good maners and so endeth his Epistle ¶ A Dialoge wherin the Epistle of S. Paule to the Romanes is familiarly expounded The persons or Talkers thereof are Paule and some one of the Citizens of Rome which visiteth Paule in prison at Rome Act. 28. This Citizen asketh questions and Paule answereth him almost with his owne words layde foorth in larger maner The Romane Paule ALthogh I be very glad of this your comming to the Citie right deare Paule yet should I be much gladder of it if I saw you discharged of these bondes P. Sir I thanke you right hartily for it But yet must not these bondes of mine abate or put away your gladnes forasmuch as they be the sure records and as it were certen badges of mine office or calling But what is the cause that you haue vouchsaued to come to mee R. Surely nothing else but a certen incredible desire of vnderstanding the Epistle whiche ye sent not long agoe to our Citizens Of whome although many be growen into the one Christian Churche yet notwithstanding I can not tell how some of them take singular pleasure of it and other some eyther of wilfulnesse or of ignorance or of a certayne suttle dissimulation can neyther abide to see it nor to heare of it Wherefore if you haue any leysure from your businesse I pray you and beseech you let vs sifte out all the places of it diligently betwixt vs that where any things shall seeme darksome vnto me You may make them easie to me by answering my demaundes according to the true Copie of it layde afore vs. P. Nothing could haue happened to me more acceptable and pleasant than this exercise forasmuch as I apply my selfe wholly with all my power and strēgth to the executing of mine office Now therefore begin whereat you wil and I will answere to al things orderly and playnly R. Then let vs begin at the very in●ling of the Epistle What teache you ●ere P. I professe my selfe to be the same ● aule whiche was once a most deadly ● nemie to Christes Gospell Acts. 9.1 Gal. 13. Act. 13.2 and to all ● hristians and is now a seruaunt of the ●● me Iesus Christ and not that onely ● ut also which is more excellent sholed out chosen and called to be his Apostle that is to say his Ambassadour messenger or Interpreter not to deale ● i th worldly affayres but to publishe ● nd spred abrode the Gospell or the ● appie and healthfull tidings from al● ightie God which thing I say for this ● urpose least any man mighte thinke ● e to haue stepped rashly into this of● ce or function whereas I protest no ● esse truly than playnly to all men that ● his charge was layde vppon me of ● od R. Very well But how is this a glad ●dings or happie message sithe many ●en doe note it of a certayne newfan●lenesse P. So small cause is there that the Gospell should bee reckened among new thinges that in verie deede it is the performance fulfilling and finishing vp of Gods promises that haue bin giuen before al remēbrāce of man R. What witnesses interpreters of them haue you P. Euen the Lords prophetes themselues which are worthy to be beleued bothe bycause they were many and most assured mainteiners of the truthe R. Out of what records of writing or out of what Presidents were these promises deliuered vnto you P. Out of the holy Scriptures which the Lord reueled vnto his seruaunts to the intent that all men might conceiue a sure persuation and beleefe of his will in their minds R. What is the substance or
fully persuaded that God gaue not his lawe to the Iewes for naught but rather that it might be a certen sure way to saluation and a certaine gaine way vnto righteousnesse P. As for Abraham himself the notable Patriark of the Iews what promises soeuer he obtened of possessing the heritage of the world nother he nor his ofspring obteyned it for anie lawe or for anie works of the lawe but for the same faith wherby he was iustified or for the righteousnesse of fayth if you had leuer so to terme it For bee you sure that Abraham was taken into gods fauour and adorned with the prayse of righteousnesse not for that he had deserued it by his singular vertues but bicause he had beleeued Gods vvordes stedfastly R. I beleue it to be so But by the way I would fayne be taught at your hande whether you thinke it to be a discommoditie or hinderaunce to vs to seeke righteousnesse saluation and fauour at gods hande by keping the commaundements of his Lawe as the thing wherein his will is expressed P. Vndoubtedly very much For if the right of inheritance should belong to none but the folowers keepers of the law then there were no vse nor profit of faith and so might the promises iustly be counted vaine and of none effect R. It were rather to be wished that beleefe should be giuen still to the promises and that we should go right foorth to saluation by the guiding thereof But what if we should adde the law as a cōpanion vnto faith so as our righteousnesse might consist of both P. Nothing were more to be wished on mans behalfe if he eyther would or could fulfill Gods lawe Howbeit forasmuche as mans nature is of suche a mould that it is loth to bee bownd to anie lawe insomuche that it stryueth ageinst the thing that is forbidden and foloweth the worser things what other thing can the law worke in a man but the flinging of Gods wrath vppon him for his despising of god Verely euen by certifying thē that a sure plague is prepared for thē that shal haue brokē gods comaundements not obeyed his wil. R. Then like as gods fauour is seene by his promises so also his vengeance vseth the law as a weapō agaynst mens sinnes For euen so doo I my selfe feele in my conscience when I looke vpon the Law Wretch that I am me thinkes I am set at gods iudgementseate where my sinnes are set afore me as in a glasse whereat I am wholly both body and soule striken in feare by reason of the most greeuous and deadly wrath of the Iudge kindled agaynst me Heerevpon there is kindled a wonderfull hatred of the law in my hart notwithstāding that euen spite of my teeth I acknowledge my sinnes to be iustly punished bicause I haue not obeyed god P. Surely the lawe is so farre of from giuing any rightuousnesse that there woulde scarsly be any feeling of sin but for the law For sin is then committed when the lusts or bownds of ryghtfulnes are passed and those bownds doth the law appoint Therefore take away the law the bounds of the law and there shal be nothing to transgresse But contrariwise set me downe the law and publishe it and by and by there is transgressiō through the wilfulnesse of men R. Surely this seemeth worthie of carefull loking too For by this saying you shew the infirmitie of mans disposition or rather the corruptnesse I wyll not saye the vtter marrednesse of the whole man whiche is full contrarie to the innocencie that God requireth By meanes whereof it cōmes to passe that whereas Gods law requyreth such perfection and soundnesse of vs as no man eyther will or can performe wee being priuy to our owne weakenesse and frowardnesse can hardly by any meanes put our trust in the meeldnesse and mercie of God who is the author of the lawe For the law maketh none ende of vrging compelling threatening tormenting P. Therefore euerlasting thanks are to be giuen vnto God that he woulde haue all such as are nūbred in the seede of Abraham to attaine to the eternall inheritāce not by the law but by faith that the same fayth resting vpō the foūdacion of Gods grace free fauour myght neuer be moued but continew stedfast substantiall and euerlasting R. What mean you by this word sede P. As many mē of al natiōs all places as are by true faith become the childrē of Abrahā the father of al beleuers not onely thē that haue receiued the words of the law and are called the disciples of Moyses For it is left in writing that God himself named the said Abrahā the father of many natiōs people R. Nowe I perceiue whereto these thinges tende For that is the cause why he was called Abraham whereas hys name was Abram before to the intent that he might from tyme to tyme be put in mynd of Gods promise as oft as that name was rehersed And that custome was conueied ouer to his posterity from their forefather who were wont to giue their children their names at the circūcising of them that they might remember the couenaunt when they hearde their owne names that were giuen them at that tyme. But to let this matter passe me thinkes you teache scarce agreeable things in referring promises which as it shoulde seeme were but transitorie worldly yea and alredy performed vnto spirituall matters as namely to the adoption that is made by faith to suche other thinges For the scriptures beare witnesse that God performed his promises abundantly vnto Abraham whom he so appoynted to be the father of many nations first when he raysed vp twelue noble and mightie tribes of his sonne Ismael whom he begat of Agar and secōdly whē he incresed other twelue most florishing houses out of Iacob the son of Isaac Besids these what an infinite ofspring was ther of the Edomits moreouer what a nūber of successors begat he of Choetura Thus it seemeth not needefull to extend the bownds of Gods promise any wider or further out vnlesse ye meane perchance to ad some secreter and sutle● allegories P. Not so But the eyes of mēs minds must be lifted vp to heauen or rather vnto God himselfe and not be fastned only vppon this earth For when I say that Abraham was appointed of God to be the father of many nations and people I loke not vpon the world but vppon God I say vppon the almightie God whome Abraham beleeued in all things and which is able to raise vp the dead from their graues which dooth as certeinly and by name set before him selfe the things that haue not yet bin as the things that are already present In so much that as there cannot be any thing which commeth not of him so is there not any thing which may not come of him R. If I be not deceaued you seeme to betoken two things vnto mee The one is how great difference there is
betweene the children of Abrahā of whom the one sorte being puffed vp with the noblenesse of their birth do boast themselues and will needes be counted Abrahams seede and the other sort are adopted to be his children by fayth For as the former sorte vaunt themselues to the worldward so these are knowen and apparant only to God Those are begotten of the flesh these are taken in by faith Those knowe Abraham for their father but as touching the flesh and these are counted his children in spirit and fayth Againe I marke how wonderfull Gods power shone forth in that cace wherevpon Abraham resting dyd by fayth vnderstand and comprehend in mynde and fayth things wonderfull and aboue natures reach For what is it that Gods power is not able to doo Therefore if we settle our trust vppon that it can neuer swarue it can neuer be remoued it can neuer quayle But to the intent I may call to minde the thinges that you haue sayd heere before first you haue shewed that the Iews as well as the Greeks in whiche two names all mankinde is conteyned are so in thraldome vnto sin that they can neuer returne into Gods fauour for any deedes or deserts of their owne and therefore that there remayneth but onely one way to saluation namely euen fayth which is ingreffed and inspired into our mynds by the spirit of God by the help whereof he plucketh vp the rootes of naturall sin out of our mynds and dryueth distrust or vnbeleefe a great way from our harts and thrusteth out of our brests the doubting of Gods mercie and the feare of his wrath which Satan had thrust in by his false persuasions Secondly it is shewed that the strength of fayth is so great that the man which of himselfe is hedged in with all kynd of wickednesse is adorned with Gods ryghtuousnes and holines whereby he may becomme acceptable welcome vnto God Neuerthelesse in these days I see very many ouerseene in the cace of fayth Of whom some surmise fayth to be but a worldly opinion and perswasiō gotten by reading of the scriptures or by hearing of mens sermons Othersome are proud of this counterfet and imaginatiue fayth and do brag of it beyond all measure bicause it is barren and vtterly frutelesse it is comonly deemed to be but a certen deuice and cōceit of men Wherefore I pray you hartely to peynt it out to me in lyuely colours to set as it were an expresse image of it before myne eyes that may sink so deeply in my mind as I may not surmise any feyned and counterfet or anie vaine thing to my selfe And to the intent we may not departe from oure purpose set foorth that image of a faythfull man in the person of Abraham and shew what he did when he was once inlyghtened with that heauenly lyght of fayth P. The strength of that Godly mans fayth was so great and so throughly fast setled in his mynde Ge. 15.5 that he trusted to Gods sayings and promises without any doubting at all And although all things seemed to be ioyned the reache of all hope after the cōmon course of mens affayres yet notwitstanding he through hope ouercame all hardnesse of hoping and beleeued that he should be the father of very many nations R. Euen in this poynt me thinkes I beholde the strength of fayth verie neerely as in a most cleare loking glasse For I perceiue it to be not a certeine historicall knowledge or a vaine opinion and slight in sighte of the truthe but as it were a certeine heauenly sunbeame and most cleare burning fyre whereby both mans wisdome is consumed the faithfull mind betaks it selfe wholly vnto God and aduanceth it selfe aboue all worldly things euen into heauen Insomuche that it imbraceth with vnwauering beleefe not onely things inuisible but also thinges to it owne iudgement repugnant But if it please you shew at what marke it bendeth hir eyes P. At the manifestation and heauenly oracles of the euerlasting God And specially at that prophesie wherin God spake to him in this wyse Thy seed shal be as the starres of the skye Ge. 15.5 and as the sand of the sea that is to say vnmeasurable and almost without number R. Away therefore with mens imaginacions and deuyces let fayth rest only vppon Gods promise Whereof we receiue then most frute when Gods maiestie plainteth the feeling and record of his goodnesse and mercy in our hartes whence al other vertues do easly spring But what haue you to say more of Abrahams fayth P. Verely this is to bee considered aduisedly that he gaue so greate and so stedfaste credite vnto God that he doubted not at all of his promises albeit that bothe the vveaknesse of hys ovvne body forworne and forespent with age for he vvas a hundred yeere olde and also the barrein and vvithered vvombe of Sara seemed as yee vvoulde saye to bee as an inuincible battelram too vveaken any fayth specially considering the nature of mans infirmitie For vvhat hope coulde there be of begetting children in those yeeres R. Surely you tell a wonderfull and welneare a monstruous thing The thing that you desire to conclude as I take it is this that we must lift vp our eyes from the beholding of worldlye things into heauen and that fayth must consider not so muche the wisdome of men as the mightie power of god For in thinges that are aboue nature there is no roome for mans wisdome whiche if Abraham had followed for his guide peraduenture he might haue doubted of Gods promises whereas by setting light by it and by passing it ouer he abode alwayes like him self constant and vnouercome P. Adde further that this most excellent Patriarke bowed neither to doubting nor to curious debating and searching ne opened the gappe to any distrust at all R. You tell me of a stout and inuincible minde For how great troubles and turmoyles doth distrust stir vp in mens minds For whan men begin once to distrust or to be thoughtfull specially in matters perteining to God they make none ende of their debating questioning and searching in so muche that we can scarsly persuade our selues that God is able to bring any great thing to passe except we perceiue the reason howe he should do it P. Yea but he not only neither stumbled nor tripped any whit at al through vnbeleefe but also confirmed and in●reased the power of his faith or rather ●ecame the cheerefuller lustier and ●●ronger through the heauenly power ●f fayth R. Doubtlesse I am fully persuaded ●hat it is scarse possible that a mā should ●iue any credite at all to Gods promises without some battell first fought against ●umaine doubting vnbelefe that all men ought to inforce thē selues with all ●iligence to beat back al the weapons of worldly wit to rid thē quite away bicause that if a man once suffer him selfe to be assaulted his mind to be woūded by thē he is in peril