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A44010 The questions concerning liberty, necessity, and chance clearly stated and debated between Dr. Bramhall, Bishop of Derry, and Thomas Hobbes of Malmesbury. Hobbes, Thomas, 1588-1679.; Bramhall, John, 1594-1663. 1656 (1656) Wing H2257; ESTC R16152 266,363 392

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Prophet out of Egypt have I called my Son without doubt Josephs aim or end of his journey was not to fulfil prophesies but to save the life of the Child Yet because the fulfilling of the prophecy was a consequent of Josephs journey he saith That it might be fulfilled So here I have raised thee up that I might shew my power Again though it should be granted that this particle that did denote the intention of God to destroy Pharaoh in the Red Sea yet it was not the antecedent intention of God which evermore respects the good and benefit of the creature but Gods consequent intention upon the prevision of Pharaohs obstinacy that since he would not glorifie God in obeying his word he should glorifie God undergoing his judgements Hitherto we find no eternal punishments nor no temporal punishment without just deserts It follows ver 18. whom he will he hardneth Indeed hardness of heart is the greatest judgement that God layes upon a sinner in this life worse than all the Plagues of Egypt But how doth God harden the heart not by a natural influence of any evil act or habit into the will nor by inducing the will with perswasive motives to obstinacy and rebellion for God tempteth no man but every man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own lust and intised Jam. 1. 13. Then God is said to harden the heart three wayes First negativly 1. and not positively not by imparting wickedness but by not imparting grace as the Sun descending to the tropick of Capricorne is said with us to be the cause of Winter that is not by imparting cold but by not imparting heat It is an act of mercy in God to give his grace freely but to detein it is no act of injustice So the Apostle opposeth hardning to shewing of mercy To harden is as much as not to shew mercy Secondly God is said to harden the heart occasionally and not causally by doing good which incorrigible sinners 2. make an occasion of growing worse and worse and doing evil as a Master by often correcting of an untoward Scholar doth accidentally and occasionally harden his heart and render him more obdurate insomuch as he grows even to despise the Rod. Or as an indulgent parent by his patience and gentleness doth incourage an obstinate son to become more rebellious So whether we look upon Gods frequent judgements upon Pharaoh or Gods iterated fauours in removing and withdrawing those judgements upon Pharaohs request both of them in their several kinds were occasions of hardning Pharaohs heart the one making him more presumptuous the other more desperately rebellious So that which was good in it was Gods that which was evil was Pharaohs God gave the occasion but Pharaoh was the true cause of his own obduration This is clearly confirmed Exod. 8. 15. When Pharaoh saw that there was respite he hardned his heart And Exod. 9. 34. When Pharaoh saw that the Rain and the Hail and the Thunders were ceased he sinned yet more and hardned his heart he and his servants So Psal. 105. 25. He turned their hearts so that they hated his people and dealt subtilly with them That is God blessed the Children of Israel whereupon the Egyptians did take occasion to hate them as is plain Exod. 1. ver 7 8 9 10. So God hardned Pharaohs heart and Pharaoh hardned his own heart God hardned it by not shewing mercy to Pharaoh as he did to Nebuckadnezzar who was as great a sinner as he or God hardned it occasionally but still Pharaoh was the true cause of his own obduration by determining his own will to evil and confirming himself in his obstinancy So are all presumptuous sinners Psal. 95 8. Harden not your hearts as in the provocation as in the day of temptation in the Wilderness Thirdly God is said to harden the heart permissively 3. but not operatively nor effectively as he who o●ly le ts loose a Greyhound out of the slip is said to hound him at the Hare Will you see plainly what St. Paul intends by hardening Read ver 22. What if God willing to shew his wrath and to make his power known that is by a consequent will which in order of nature followes the prevision of sin indured with much long suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy c. There is much difference between induring and impelling or inciting the vessels of wrath He saith of the vessels of mercy that God prepared them unto glory But of the vessels of wrath he saith only that they were fitted to destruction that is not by God but by themselves St. Paul saith that God doth endure the vessels of wrath with much long suffering T. H. saith that God wills and effects by the second causes all their actions good and bad that he necessitateth them and determineth them irresistibly to do those acts which he condemneth as evill and for which he punisheth them If doing willingly and enduring If much long suffering and necessitating imply not a contrariety one to another reddat mihi minam Diogenes Let him that taught me Logick give me my money again But T. H. saith that this distinction between the operative and permissive Will of God and that other between the action and the irregularity do dazel his understanding Though he can find no difference between these two yet others do St. Paul himself did Acts 13. 18. About the time of forty years suffered he their manners in the Wilderness And Acts 14. 16. Who in times past suffered all Nations to walk in their own wayes T. H. would make suffering to be inciting their manners to be Gods manners their wayes to be Gods wayes And Acts 17. 30. The times of this ignorance God winked at It was never heard that one was said to wink or connive at that which was his own act And 1 Cor. 10. 13. God is faithful who will not suffer you to be tempted above that you are able To tempt is the Devils act therefore he is called the Tempter God tempts no man to sin but he suffers them to be tempted And so suffers that he could hinder Sathan if he would But by T. H. his doctrine To tempt to sin and to suffer one to be tempted to sin when it is in his power to hinder it it is all one And so he transforms God I write it with horrour into the Devil and makes tempting to be Gods own work and the Devil to be but his instrument And in that noted place Rom. 2. 4. Despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearrance and long suffering not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thy ●elf wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgement of God Here are as many convincing Arguments in this one text against the
acts and words to acknowledge it than he that thinketh otherwise Yet is this external acknowledgement the same thing which we call Worship So this opinion fortifieth piety in both kinds externally and internally and therefore is far from destroying it And for Repentance which is nothing but a glad returning into the right way after the grief of being out of the way though the cause that made him go astray were necessary yet there is no ●…ason why he should not grieve and again though the cause ●…hy he returned into the way were necessary there remaines still the causes of joy So that the necessity of the actions taketh away neither of those parts of repentance grief for the errour nor joy for the returning And for Prayer whereas he saith that the necessity of things destroyes prayer I deny it For though prayer be none of the causes that moove Gods Will his Will being unchangeable yet since we find in Gods Word he will not give his blessings but to those that ask them the motive to prayer is the same Prayer is the gift of God no less than the blessings And the prayer is decreed together in the same decree wherein the blessing is decreed T is manifest that thanksgiving is no cause of the blessing past And that which is past is sure and necessary Yet even amongst men thanks is in use as an acknowledgement of the benefit past though we should expect no new benefit for our gratitude And prayer to God Almighty is but thanksgiving for his blessings in general and though it precede the particular thing we ask yet it is not a cause or means of it but a signification that we expect nothing but from God in such manner as he not as we will And our Saviour by word of mouth bids us pray Thy will not our will be done and by example teaches us the same for he prayed thus Father if it be thy will let this cup pass c. The end of prayer as of thanksgiving is not to move but to honour God Almighty in acknowledging that what we ask can be effected by him onely J. D. I Hope T. H. will be perswaded in time that it is not the Covetousness or Ambition or Sensuallity or Sloth or Prejudice of his Readers which renders this doctrine of absolute necessity dangerous but that it is in its own nature destructive to true godliness a And though his answer consist more of oppositions than of solutions yet I will not willingly leave one grain of his matter unweighed b First he erres in making inward piety to consist meerly in the estimation of the judgement If this were so what hinders but that the Devils should have as much inward piety as the best Christians for they esteem Gods power to be infinite and tremble Though inward piety do suppose the act of the understanding yet it consisteth properly in the act of the will being that branch of Justice which gives to God the honour which is due unto him Is there no Love due to God no Faith no Hope Secondly he erres in making inward piety to ascribe no glory to God but onely the glory of his Power or Omnipotence What shall become of all other the divine Attributes and particularly of his Goodness of his Truth of his Justice of his Mercy which beget a more true and sincere honour in the heart than greatness it self Magnos facile laudamus bonos lubenter Thirdly this opinion of absolute necessity destroyes the truth of God making him to command one thing openly and to necessitate another privately to chide a man for doing that which he hath determined him to do to profess one thing and to intend another It destroyes the goodness of God making him to be an hater of mankind and to delight in the torments of his creatures whereas the very doggs licked the sores of Lazarus in pitty and commiseration of him It destroyes the Justice of God making him to punish the creatures for that which was his own act which they had no more powerto shun than the fire hath power not to burn It destroyes the very power of God making him to be the true Author of all the defects and evils which are in the world These are the fruits of Impotence not of Omnipotence He who is the effective cause of sin either in himself or in the Creature is not Almighty There needs no other Devil in the world to raise jealousies and suspitions between God and his creatures or to poyson mankind with an apprehension that God doth not love them but onely this opinion which was the office of the Serpent Gen. 3. 5. Fourthly for the outward worship of God e How shall a man praise God for his goodness who believes him to be a greater Tyrant than ever was in the world who creates millions to burn eternally without their fault to express his power How shall a man hear the word of God with that reverence and devotion and faith which is requisite who believeth that God causeth his Gospel to be preached to the much greater part of Christians not with any intention that they should be converted and saved but meerly to harden their hearts and to make them inexcusable How shall a man receive the blessed Sacrament with comfort and confidence as a Seal of Gods love in Christ who believeth that so many millions are positively excluded from all fruit and benefit of the passions of Christ before they had done either good or evil How shall he prepare himself with care and conscience who apprehendeth that Eating and Drinking unworthily is not the cause of damnation but because God would damn a man therefore he necessitates him to eat and drink unworthily How shall a man make a free vow to God without grosse ridiculous hypocrisie who thinks he is able to p●rform nothing but as he is extrinsecally necessitated Fiftly for Repentance how shall a man condemn and accuse himself for his sins who thinks himself to be like a Watch which is wound up by God and that he can go neither longer nor shorter faster nor slower truer nor falser than he is ordered by God If God sets him right he goes right If God set him wrong he goes wrong How can a man be said to return into the right way who never was in any other way but that which God himself had chalked out for him What is his purpose to amend who is destitute of all power but as if a man should purpose to fly without wings or a beggar who hath not a groat in his purse purpose to build Hospitals We use to say admit one absurdity and a thousand will follow To maintain this unreasonable opinion of absolute necessity he is necessitated but it is hypothetically he might change his opinion if he would to deal with all ancient Writers as the Goths did with the Romans who destroyed all their magnificent works that there might remain no monument of their greatness upon
without himself necessarily or that it is his pleasure that all second causes should act necessarily at all times which is the question and that which he alledgeth to the contrary comes not near it Anim●dversions upon the Bishops Reply Numb XV. a ANd though his answer consist more of oppositions than of solutions yet I will not willingly leave one grain of his matter unweighed It is a promise of great exactness and like to that which is in his Epistle to the Reader Here is all that passed between us upon this subject without any addition or the least variation from the original c. Which promises were both needless and made out of gallantry and therefore he is the less pardonable in case they be not very rigidly observed I would therefore have the Reader to consider whether these words of mine Our Saviour bids us pray Thy Will not our Will be done and by example teaches us the same for he prayed thus Father if it be thy Will let this cup pass c. which seem at least to imply that our prayers cannot change the Will of God nor divert him from his eternal decree have been weighed by him to a grain according to his promise Nor hath he kept his other promise any better For Number 8. replying to these word● of mine If he had so little to do as to be a spectator of the actions of Bees and Spiders he would have confessed not onely Election but also Art Prudence and Policy in them c. He saith Yes I have seen those silliest of Creatures and seeing their rare works I have seen enough to confute all the bold-faced Athiests of this age and their hellish blasphemies This passage is added to that which passed between us upon this subject For it is not in the Copy which I have had by me as himself confesseth these eight years Nor is it in the Body of the Copy he sent to the Presse but onely in the margent that is to say added out of anger against me whom he would have men think to be one of the bold-faced Athiests of this Age. In the rest of this Reply he endeavoureth to prove that it followeth from my opinion that there is no use of Piety My opinion is no more than this that a man cannot so determine to day the will which he shall have to the doing of any action to morrow as that it may not be changed by some external accident or other as there shall appear more or less advantage to make him persevere in the Will to the same action or to Will it no more When a man intendeth to pay a debt at a certain time if he see that the deteining of the money for a little longer may advantage himself and ●eth no other disadvantage equivalent likely to follow upon the detention hath his will changed by the advantage and therefore had not determined his Will himself but when he foreseeth discredit or perhaps imprisonment then his Will remaineth the same and is determined by the thoughts he hath of his Creditor who is therefore an external cause of the determination of the debtors Will. This is so evident to all men living though they never studied School-Divinity that it will be very strange if he draw from it the great impiety he pretends to do Again my opinion is only this that whatsoever God foreknowes shall come to pass it cannot possibly be that that shall not come to pass But that which cannot possibly not come to pass that is said by all men to come to pass necessarily therefore all events that God foreknowes shal come to pass shall come to pass necessarily If therefore the Bishop draw Impiety from this he falleth into the Impiety of denying Gods Prescience Let us see now how he reasoneth b First he erres in making inward Piety to consist meerly in the estimation of the judgement If this were so what hinders but that the Devils should have as much inward Piety as the best Christians for they esteem Gods power to be infinite and tremble I said that two things concurr'd to Piety one to esteem his power as highly as is possible The other that we signifie that estimation by our words and actions that is to say that we worship him This later part of Piety he leaveth out and then it is much more easie to conclude as he doth that the Devils may have inward Piety But neither so doth the Conclusion follow For Goodness is one of Gods Powers namely that Power by which he worketh in men the Hope they have in him and is relative and therefore unless the Devil think that God will be good to him he cannot esteem him for his Goodness It does not therefore follow from any opinion of mine that the Devil may have as much inward Piety as a Christian. But how does the Bishop know how the Devils esteem Gods Power and what Devils does he mean there are in the Scripture two sorts of things which are in English translated Devils one is that which is called Satan Diabolus and Abaddon which signifies in English an Enemy an Accuser and a Destroyer of the Church of God In which sense the Devils are but wicked men How then is he sure that they esteem Gods Power to be infinite for trembling inferrs no more than that they apprehend it to be greater than their own The other sort of Devils are called in the Scripture Doemonia which are the faigned Gods of the Heathen and are neither bodies nor spiritual substances but meer fancies and fictions of terrified hearts faigned by the Greeks and other Heathen People and which St. Paul calleth Nothings for an Idol saith he is Nothing Does the Bishop mean that these Nothings esteem Gods Power to be infinite and tremble there is nothing that has a real being but God and the World and the parts of the World nor has any thing a faigned being but the fictions of mens braines The World and the parts thereof are corporeal indued with the dimensions of Quantity and with Figure I should be glad to know in what Classis of Entities which is a word that Schoolmen use the Bishop ●anketh these Devils that so much esteem Gods Power and yet not love him nor hope in him if he place them not in the rank of those men who are enemies to the People of God as the Jewes did c Secondly he erres in making inward Piety to ascribe no glory to God but onely the glory of his Power or Omnipotence What shall become of all other the Divine Attributes and particularly of his Goodness of his Truth of his Justice of his Mercy c. He speaketh of Gods Goodness and Mercy as if they were no part of his Power Is not Goodness in him that is good the Power to make himself beloved and is not Mercy Goodness are not therefore these Attributes contained in the Attribute of his Omnipotence And Justice in God is it any thing else but