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A94720 The female duel, or The ladies looking glass. Representing a Scripture combate about business of religion, fairly carried on, between a Roman Catholick lady, and the wife of a dignified person in the Church of England. Together with their joynt answer to an Anabaptists paper sent in defiance of them both: entitled the Dipper drowned. / Now published by Tho. Toll Gent. Toll, Thomas. 1661 (1661) Wing T1776A; Thomason E1813_2; ESTC R209780 171,193 328

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one Argument against so foul a thing and that is this either Images are commanded or commended for good meanes of divine worship or they are not if they be then shew it by Scripture if they be not then it must follow that it is a piece of will-worship and that all Images are meer fond and vain things That your Doctrines of Indulgences Purgatory and Prayer for the dead are derogatory to Gods glory and abusive to the world Iprove by Scripture thus And First as to your business of Indulgencies I shall give but one blow and that I presume will be a mortall one out of Saint Paul to the Romanes where he saith for I reckon that the sufferrings of this present time Rom. 8.18 are not worthy to be compared with the Glory which shall be revealed in me If then the merits of the Saints upon earth are more then enough rewarded by the glory which the Lord is pleased to confer upon them in heaven how can there be a superabundance of their merits pick'd up by your Church and laid up in a storehouse or treasury for the Pope to take out at his pleasure and apply to the use and advantage of other men which is as I am inform'd the prophane and sottish opinion of your Church Then as to your Doctrine of Purgatory I shall disprove it thus The Prophet Daniell mentions but two ways for soules to go The one to everlasting life Dan. 11.2 Matth. 25.46 John 5.29 the other to everlasting contempt Our Saviour does mention no more And these shall go away into everlasting punishment but the Righteous into life eternall so St. Matthew And again in St. Johns Gospell They that have done good unto the Resurrection of life and they that have done evill unto the Resurrection of damnation How dare any man invent a third place upon his own head when God himself ha's appointed but two Again the Scriptures plainly tells us that those which are to be saved go immediately to Heaven without any stop or stay by the way therefore your Purgatory must needs be very much out of the way Luk. 23.43 As first we find in Saint Lukes gospell our Saviours own words to the Thief upon the Cross And Iesus said unto him Verily I say unto thee to day shalt thou be with me in Paradise that is understood immediately after his death without any delay in Purgatory Phil. 1.23 or else where Then again St. Paul tells the Philipians that he had a desire to depart and to be with Christ therefore after departure the saved soul goes immediately to Christ without any rubbs stops or stays by the way what then is become of your pitifull purgatory So I presume I need not trouble your Ladyship with any more arguments to convince so foul an errour I shall only produce one or two more against your prayer for the dead which is a consequent of your Purgatory and so conclude this Paper That your Doctrine of Prayer for the dead is an impertinent piece of devotion and contrary to Scripture I prove thus 1. It were enough for the satisfaction of any resonable person in this point to have disproved purgatory as I have done already for if there be no Purgatory there can be no prayer for the dead usefull at all but I will proceed more particularly to prove against prayer for the dead thus The Prophet Jeremy not only forbids to pray but to weep for the dead saying Weep ye not for the dead Jer. 22.10 neither bemoan him but weep for him that goeth astray c. If the dead be not in a condition to be wept for they are mch lesse in a condition to be pray'd for and by consequence again there can be no Purgatory 2. Luk. 7.13 Our Saviour again in like manner forbids the Widdow to weep for her Son that was dead so still it follows if there ought to be no weeping then no Purgatory and if no Purgatory then no prayer for the dead 3ly and Lastly for the Explication of all that ha's been said 1 Thes 14.13 14 15.16 17 18 and the conviction of all gainsayers Observe what St. Paul says to the Thessalonians But I would not have you be ignorant brethren concerning them which are asleep that ye s●rrow not even as others which have no hope for if we believ c. So to the end of the Chapter comforts them with an assurance of resurrection to life eternall without any the least mention of Purgatory or prayers for the dead This Paper my Lady had at sooner peras'd but she disposed her self immediately to her pen and writ as followeth To what you are pleased to alledge against our Doctrine for the invocation of the Saints in Heaven I answer thus To your first second third and fourth I shall answer together and with good reason for there runs the same fallacy along with them all and I do wonder you should be so deluded by the Sophismes of your Doctors for those very Arguments that they have furnished you withall against us in this point do as well take away the Intercession of Christ himself and the prayers of the Saints living upon earth as the intercession of the Saints in heaven For if this be a good consequence God is only to be worshipt therefore it is not lawfull to invoke the Saints in heaven then this must be a good consequence too God is only to be worshipped therefore it is not lawfull to invoke or desire the Saints on earth to pray for us For this word only exclude as well one as the other and must of necessity as well condemn the invocation of the Saints Militant which all of you use and the Apostle himself did too as the invocation of the Saints Triumphant Besides we do acknowledge it to be our duty to pray and ask of God and to pray and ask in Jesus his name and to pray and to ask with confidence as the Apostle would have us but nothing of all this can make an exclusion of the Saints For by the Saints as our fellow Members we pray in the name of Jesus our head wherfore our Church always doth conclude its Collects of the Saints with through Jesus Chirst our Lord and you are to understand that though God be most good most gracious and merciful yet he is a God of order and disposeth of all things so sweetly that all Inferiours may lead us to Superiours and so in this particular case our Church is likewise well pleased that we should come boldly to the Throne of Grace to the fountain of Grace Father of Mercy and God of all comforts but this she tels us that we may more commodiously do it by the Saints then only by our selves who are most miserable sinners and so must of necessity be abhorred by him And the Scripture tels us that our God is a consuming fire and we may justly fear lest we perish before his face as wax melteth
Micah 6.6 by pretended good works in this Pathetical expostulation Wherewith shall I come before the Lord and bow my self before the high God Shall I come before him with burnt offerings with Calves of a year old Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of Rams or with ten thousands of Rivers of oyl Shall I give my first-born for my transgression the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul Then the Prophet concludes immediately He hath shewed thee O man what is good and what doth the Lord require of thee but to do justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with thy God What can be more evident then this to shew that God Almighty requires nothing of a sinner but a faithfull returne to his Duty Where is then your pitifull satisfaction Our Saviour Jesus Christ did most sufficiently satisfie for our sins by his own most bitter passion and death as is abundantly clear in Scripture nor was his precious Passion sufficient only to take away the sins of the whole world which it may be you will willingly grant but also to take away the pains and punishments due to us for them for the Prophet I say affirms it thus surely he hath born our griefs and carried our sorrows Isai 53.4 5. and again he was wounded for our transgressions he was bruised for our iniquities the chastisement of our peace was upon him and with his stripes we are healed Thus it is plain aswell the punishment of sin as sin it self was taken away by him without any piece of our satisfaction required And Jesus Christ the great Physitian he always makes a perfect cure of sin and punishment what need then is there of our satisfaction That the Root and foundation of all these your doctrines is extreamly false and that Man hath no free-will at all is proved most plainly thus The Blessed Baptist assures us that man can receive nothing except it be given hipe from Heaven Saint James likewise tells us John 3.27 that every good gift and every perfect gift Jam. 1.17 is from above and cometh down from the Father of Lights c. Saint Paul yet more plainly 2 Cor. 3.5 that we are not sufficient of our selves to think any thing as of our selves but our sufficiency is of God 1 Cor. 4.7 And to the same Corinthians saith What hast thou that thou didst not receive now if thou didst receive it why dost thou glory as if thou hadst not received it With the truth of all these Texts how can your Doctrines of Free-Will stand 2. Rom. 9.19.16.18 Isa 63.17 Jerem. 10.23 Prov. 16.1 Prov. 30. Again Saint Paul to the Romans quctes the Words of the Lord to Moses I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion from thence draws an Argument himself against your Free-Will to then it is not of him that willeth nor of him that runneth but of God that sheweth mercy Therefore he hath mercy on whom he will have mercy and whom he will be hardneth what now will become of your Free-Will The Phophet Isaiah expostulates somewhat strangly with God about this O Lord why hast thou made us to erre from thy ways and bardned our heart from thy fear What can man do then with his Free-Will 4th The Prophet Jeremy declares it for a truth of his own knowledge O Lord I know that the way of man is not in himself it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps Solomon assures us likewise that the preparation of the heart in man Jerem. 10.23 Prov. 16.1 Prov. 20.24 and the answer of the Tongue is from the Lord and again mans goings are of the Lord how can a man then understand his own way if he cannot understand it he can sure left direct it The Prophet Isay and S. Paul tells us Isay 45.9 Rom. 9.20 that it is an extravagant thing for the thing formed to say to him that formed it why hast thou made me thus and the Apostle in the same Chapter says that God of his free grace and meer election faves some and not for any thing of their works or freewill that is exprelly said in the Text if it were not it would however follow from reason for otherwise grace would not be grace at all and then concludes as a foresaid that it is not of him that willeth nor of him that runneth but of God that giveth mercy what could be said more cleerly against your Churches doctrine Our Saviour tells his Apostles as three Evangelists do joyntly and severally assure us Mat. 10.19 Mark 13.11 Luke 12.11 that they should take no thought how or what they should speak for it should be given them in the same hour what they should speak for said he again it is not ye that speak but the spirit of your father which speaketh in you if then our ability be so short to speak how much less must it be to do his will S. Matthew again tells us in the same Chapter Mat. 14.29 how our Saviour argues the matter with them are not two sparrows sold for a farthing and one of them shall not fall to the ground without your Father if a Sparrow fall not without him how shall a thought word or action of ours Our Saviour very positively concludes this point in S. Johns Gospel thus John 6.44 no man can come to me except the Father which hath sent me draw him and I will raise him up at the last day what can poor we do then with all the strength of our will or works so I beseech the same Father to draw your Ladiship and all erring Christians to himself This paper my Lady had no sooner read but she sent a messenger with a letter back to Mrs. N. to thank her for the favour of her paper and to assure her of the best satisfaction she should be able to give to it but cheifly to defire her for the future to forbear Scholastick questions least by their little skill in those nicities they might before they were a ware engage themselves in Blasphemy or Heresie So Mrs. N. returned thanks to her Ladiship for her kind caution and promised to avoid all speculative disputes and to proceed upon things more morall and practicall with which the Lady was satisfied so fell to work upon the papers thus To what you alledge against our doctrine of goodworks and for your justification by faith alone I answer thus To the first We do humbly believe acknowledge and profess that the just must live by faith for faith is the foundation of the spirituall building Heb. 11. and the substance of all things hoped for as the Apostle tells us But what you do from thence gather of your faith alone is a meer tearing and a falsifying of all those texts out of the Prophets Apostles and Evangelists For it is no where said that the
inclosed for which I teturn my most humble thanks and instead of another which you seem to require of me I have sent you two herein inclosed the one to shew you the superstition Idolatry and Will-worship of your Church the other to convince you of the Pride Arrogancy Tyranny and Usurp'd power of it which when your Ladyship hath been pleased to peruse and as well as you can to answer I shall summe up all that you have said rogether and make a short rejoynder to the whole of your replies for I am refolved to trouble your Ladyship with no more Papers so praying God for your Ladyships good health both of Body and Soul I take leave to remain Madam Your Ladyships most assured faithfull servant N. My Lady upon the return of her servant opening the Packet that Mistress N. had sent back to her found the Papers inclosed whereof the first was to this effect as followeth That which your Church teacheth concerning the invocation of Saints is a Doctrine very injurious to God and yet not more prophane then superstitious and impertinent and that I will prove thus 1. Jesus Christ our blessed Saviour with God the Father God the Holy Ghost Holy Trinity in Unity three Persons and one God alone is all-sufficient alone is most liberall and alone is most mercifull and who alone loves us more than all the Saints There is not a Christian living that I think dares deny a word of this if there should be such a monster a were easie to prove every word of it by express Scripture who can think it rationall then to invoke any other thing and besides that this all-bountifull all-mercifull all-powerfull most good most gracious and most loving Lord God has not onely enjoin'd us but importun'd us to pray to him and him alone promising to hear and grant our requests and that I prove by most express Scriptures thus 2. First by the Gospells it is most clear our Saviour in Saint John assures it with a Verily verily I say unto you whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name he will give it you John 16.23 24. and then in the next verse Ask and ye shal receive thus it is but asking of God and having and yet you must think fit to go about by the Saints 3. Then in Saint Lukes Gospel we find and I say unto you ask and it shall be given you Luke 11.9.10 11 12 13. seek and ye shall find knock and it shall be opened unto you For every one that asketh receiveth and he that seeketh findeth and to him that knocketh it shall be opened Then by the paralel of God with a good Father granting his childs requests he concludes how much more shall your heavenly Father give the holy Spirit to them that ask him Again what you ask in prayet believing ye shall receive as Saint Matthews Gospell tells Matth. 2. with an infinity of other places too many to repeat to that purpose wherefore Saint Paul most pithily concludes Heb. 4.16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of Grace that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need 4 The Apostle tells us 2 Cor. 1.3 that God is the Father of mercies and the Lord of all comforts who comforteth us in all our tribulation that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble by the comfort wherewith we our selvs are comforted of God c. If all our comfort then be from God had we not better make our address to him that we know is the fountain of all Grace than to the Saints who can have nothing but what they derive from him 5. The same Apostle tells Tymothy plainly that there is but one Mediatour between God and men and that is Christ Jesus what an offence then must it needs be to God to make more Mediators that is the Saints Then we finde frequently in Scripture that he alone maketh intercesion for us as in Isaiah that he makes intercession for transgressors 1 Tim. 2.5 Isai 53.12 Rom. 8.26.24 Heb. 7.25 and Saint Paul tells us that he ever liveth to make intercession for us And again who always maketh intercession for us why should we date to make more intercessors that is the Saints 6. In fine to summe up all in short your Doctrine of invocacion of the Saints is highly injurious to God who is a jealous God and will onely be worship'd It is injurious to Jesus Christ who is the onely Mediatour between God and man Thirdly it is injurious to our selves for it is an argument of a diffidence and distrust in God when we fly to the Saints for succour and then lastly it is an impertinent and unprofitable piece of devotion because the Saints in heaven neither do nor can hear our prayets nor know our wants or what is done here amongst us as Job tells us Job 24.21 Eccles 9.5 his sons came to honor and he knoweth it not Ecclesiastes assures us that the living know that they shall dye but the dead know not any thing and the Prophet Isaiah yet more plainly Isai 63.16 doubtlessthou art our Father though Abraham be ignorant of us and Israel do not acknowledge us c. Thus it is plain that the Saintf in heaven are incapable to know our wants or hear our prayers much less to help us That your Doctrine of Veneration of Images is an abominable Idolatrcus Dactrine and prejudicial to divine Worship I prove Thus. First out of the plain words of the Commandement Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven Image Exod. 20.4 5. Deut. 4.5 2● or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above or that is in the earth beneath or that is in the waterunder the earth thou shalt notbow down thy self to them nor serve them c. The same thing is repeated at the latter end of Ex●dus and in severall places of Deuteronomy and in many other places of the Old Testament 2. Again we find how good Hezekiah 2 King 18.4 removed the high places and brake the Images and brake in pieces the beazen Serpent that Moses had made c. Yet your Religion strives to restore to Christians that kind of worship 3 How well our Saviour is pleased with that kinde of Worship Joh. 22 23 24. you may see in Saint John's Gospell where our Saviour says ye worship ye know not what c. But the hour cometh and now is when the true Worshippers shall worship the Father in Spirit and in Truth for the Father seekes such to worship him God is a Spirit and they that worship him must worship him in Spirit and in Truth Now I would feign know what a Spirit hath to do with Images or how can the worship of Images be thought a spiritual worship 4 Over and above the danger of Idolatry and many unclean thoughts that may be occasioned by Images I shall onely add this