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A14368 A stronge battery against the idolatrous inuocation of the dead saintes, and against the hauyng or setting up of images in the house of prayer, or in any other place where there is any paril of idolatrye, made dialoguewise by Iohn Veron VĂ©ron, John, d. 1563. 1562 (1562) STC 24686; ESTC S102670 105,295 264

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then euidence and playne that we do not withoute a iuste cause dissent from the Catholikes and so earnestlye impugne their damnable and wicked opinions But nowe to come to our pourpose here in thys my booke I do mayntayne and defende agaynste theym that god onelye in the tyme of oure trouble ought to be called vppon and that therefore they that in their necessytyes do by prayer flye vnto deade creatures doe robb god of his glory and do committ most damnable sacriledge which thing hath ben sufficientlye proued by manifest textes of the scriptures and by strong authorityes of the auncient fathers of the primityue Church all the obiections that the aduersaries can make beyng mightily auswered and confuted The hol● argumēt of the booke Secondly it hath bene plainely shewed that we ought to acknowledge none other mediator betvvixte God and man but oure sauiour Iesu Christ onely whom the scriptures do appoint vnto vs for the omnisufficient sauiour of man kynde and for our only intercessour aduocate and mediatour Making no mention at all of the intercession or mediation of the dead faintes which thing the holye ghost woulde not haue omitted yf the saintes departed oute of this world had bene either appointed or alowed of god to be intercessours vnto god for vs. Thirdly it hath ben declared that as the saints that be already in glory with god ought in no wise to be called vpon nor to be takē for our mediatours so no godly honor ought to be geuē vnto thē forasmuch as it is a seruice which is only due vnto god Wher I had an occasiō to shew how many ways the true faithfull seruantes of god being departed in the faith of his son Iesu Christ ma● be honored that the greatest honor that we can do vnto them is to obey their godly and sound doctrine wherby they haue instructed vvin the true religion worshipping of the true liuing God and also to folow their faith and other heauenly vertues wherby they did glorifye God whilest they lyued here in this worlde This also hath ben done by the infallible worde of god testimonies of the holy doctours of the true catholike churche all the obiections of the aduersaries as before beyng quite ouerthrowen by the same Last of all it hath ben proued that no figure ymage or likenes of god nor of his son Iesu Christ nor of the holy ghost nor yet of the Saintes ought to be had in the house of praier nor in any other place whersoeuer ther i● any peryll of idolatry and that there can be no vse of them in the Oratories or praying places of the Christians ▪ but rather that they doo most hurte whersoeuer they be vsed and kept where by the waye I haue shewed what is the true crosse that we ought to embrace and haue a pleasure in and that as for material crosses they do more hurte than good that therfore for auoiding of offences they ought to be taken away These are the chiefe and principall contente of this booke wh●ch I do most humbly and with all due submission dedicate and offer vnto your good lordship desiring your honour to accept and take it in good part which thing if ye do it shall encorage me to attempte greater thinges ▪ for the aduancemēt of gods glory ▪ and for the edifieng of his churche Thus the lorde god of hostes the autour of all goodnes vouchsafe to preserue your honour my good lady your wife and all your good familie and householde The Table of this Boke A True tale Folio 101. A worthie historie fol. 74. A good shift of the papistes fo 10 A differēce betwixt sinners eodē A short exposition of Cypriās words 41. A priuate mans facte fol. 31. A place out of the .xxxii. chapiter of Exodus folio 51. Abels bloode crieth for vengeance fo 24 Absalon and his historie fo 15. All sainctes that be in glory haue ben saued onely by the mercy of god fo 11. Antonomasia what it is fol. 53. Ambrose woordes fo 14. 86. 95. 100. Antechrist worketh signes miracles 8. An historie to be marked of Christian kinges and princes fol. 33. Applyeng of the similitude fol. 10. At the day of iudgement folio 22. Augustines wordes in so many places as he is alledged in this booke fol. 11. 19. 21 27. 38. 42. 43. 46. 47. 57. 61. 64. 7● 96. 97. 101. A small shifte fol. 99. Answere to fonde obiections 78. Athanassus wordes fol. 83. A strong argumēt against the papists 86. Angell the papiste I woulde haue sayde the catholike fol. 95. A notable historie of Antony fo 103. B. Brasen serpent fol. 80. Baruh of what dead he speaketh of 59 Beastlynesse of the papistes in alleagyng the scriptures fol. 58. C. Christe why he is worshipped fo 74 Crosse taken for affliction and trouble It is also taken for continuall repentance and mortifieng of the fleshe fol. 94. Cherubin why they were made fo 81 Christe hath spoken neuer a worde of the inuocation of sainctes fo 5. and whom they be that he will saue fol. 19. Colyridiani what they be fo 72. Chrysostome and his wordes 16. 73. Crosse taken for the death of Christ and preachyng of the same fol. 94. Cyprian and his sayenges 40. 56. 67. Constantine and Archadius fo 58 Cyrillus wordes fol. 73. Concilium To●ctan●●● fol. 8● D. Damascene Gardeners chiefe refuge folio 95. 100. Doctrine scarsly alowed by the pope 58. E. Ezechias exaumple is to bee folowed of good princes fol. 81. Eunomius and his heresie fol. 38. Epiphantus and his wordes fol. 72. Epiphanius byshoppe of Salamena in Cypres folio 92. Erasmus censore vpon Saint Hieromes boke agaynst Vigilantius 30. his Endion 70. and in his annotations fol. 86. Epiphanius in buildyng gods house 93. Example of the publican fol. 12. F. Fonde obiectious of the papistes fo 78. G. Goddes creatures all of theim may bee the bokes of the laie people for 1●4 God onely ought to be called vpon fo 3. and why he doothe good to menne here in the earthe fol. 29. God will not haue vs attribute our felicitie vnto creatures fol. 67. H. Helias why he was taken vp in bodye and soule folio 35. Helizeus and why the dead that was cast into his graue was raised agayn fo 36. He onely oughte to bee called vppon in whome we doo beleue fol. 5. Heresye and schisme vnto whome it is layde fol. ● Holy angels will haue no sacrifice 48. Howe the name of God was in his aungelles fol. 47. Howe the place alleadged out of the .ix. of Iohn ought to be vnderstanded fo 12. Howe God dothe honor his saintes fo 71 Hierome and his woordes 25. 29. ●0 31. 37. 39. 48. 86. 95. Howe we may honour the image of God aryghte I fol. 104. Images and why the papistes wyll haue them in their churches fol. 74. 77. 84. Images of the gentils 87. they ought to be put downe in all churches fol. 90.
shall not come into iudgement or into condemnation but is past from death to lyfe And in an other place god saith he sent not his son into the worlde that he should condēne the world Iohn 3. but that the worlde through him might be saued he that beleueth in him shal not be condemned but he that beleueth not Iohn 12 is alredy condemned because he beleueth not in the name of the onely begotten sonne of god Again yf any man heare my wordes and beleue not I iudge him not for I came not to iudge the world but to saue the world He that refuseth me and receaued not my wordes hath one that iudgeth him the word that I haue spoken shal iudge him in the last day By these wordes of Christ it doth plainely appeare fyrste that as long as Christ is in his priesthode and sitteth in the throne of grace he doth not execute the office of a iudge but the office of a priest and mediator and secondly that the faythful beleuers are deliuered from the streightnes rigour and seuerity of the iudgement wherby Christ shall iudge the world in the last day Therfore those scriptures that do set forthe vnto vs Christes priesthoode and the fruites therof ought most diligently to be considered borne in mynd and remembred Them shal ye haue as it hath bene already declared before in the 7. and 9. chapter of the epistle to the Hebrues in which epistle Hebr 5. VVhat ought be our shoote anker the Apostell doth ernestly exhorte vs to come vnto the throne of mercye and grace Thys then ought to be our shoote ankre that our sauiour Iesus Christ is not onely appointed of the father to be our iudge but also to be our mediatour aduocate and intercessour and that therfore we must endeuour our selues to bee of the numbre of the faithfull beleuers vnto whom by the blood of our sauior Iesu Christ Math. 11 the waye is open into the holy place and vnto the seate of grace which is sett foorth of God for all them that are laden and doo labor in this peynfull way of synne wretchednesse and miserie so that they will take hold vppon the promises of God sealed vp vnto vs by the blood of his onely begottē sonne our sauior Iesus Christe Didy Questiō We reade and heare that our sauiour Iesus Christe maketh intercession for vs how I beseche you ought this to be vnderstanded Is it to be thought that he is kneling before the maiestie of god his father and that holdyng vp his hādes and shewyng his woundes vnto hym he dothe pray for vs for such doctrine haue we ben taught heretofore Philalethes Ansvver to the question We muste haue no suche grosse imagination of the intercession of the sonne of God But with the apostle we oughte to vnderstande that Christe doothe so stande or appeare before the face or in the syght of GOD that the vertue of his deathe shal stand and bee vnto vs for a perpetuall and euerlastyng intercession Heb. 12. And for this cause it is sayd that his bloode speaketh better thynges The blood of Abel crieth for vēgeaunce Gene. 4. than the bloode of Abell for the bloode of Abell beynge shedde with the handes of his cruelle brother Cayne dydde from the earth crye vnto the. LORDE for vengeance but the bloude of our sauiour Iesus Christe beyng ones shedde for vs vppon the aultare of the crosse and where thorough an euerlastynge Testament and priesthoode is confyrmed and sealed vp vnto vs is in perpetuall remembrance before GOD and dothe of him obtaine continually mercy vnto vs. Albion Obiect 8 Yf we oughte not to pray vnto dead Saintes eyther because that we haue no nede of intercessours to godwarde or elles because that Christe is oure onely mediatoure betwixt his heauenly Father and vs why then it shall not be lauful that we praye one for an other Iames. 5. as Iames doth bidde vs saying Praye one for an other that ye may be saued Now if according to Iames saying we may godly praye one for an other who shall let Answer but that the Saints in heauen should pray and make intercession for vs Philalethes All that hath ben sayd hetherto dothe onely tende to this that we maye vnderstande that in the tyme of our trouble we haue accesse vnto the father through oure onely mediator Iesu Christ Now the praiers that we do here in this life of a brotherly charitie loue make one for another be not repugnant vnto that but the doctrine of the inuocation of dead Sainctes is all together repugnant And as for the place Hovv the pla●e of Iames is to bee vnderstaded that ye haue aleaged out of Iames be sayth not there Let som pray for the other but praye one for an other that ye may be saued wherby he requyreth of vs an assured affiance truste and confidence in our heauenly father through his sonne Iesu Christ and suche an earneste loue towardes our neighbor that wee countyng his miseries troubles and aduersities our owne we should at all tymes with a good confidence commende his saluation vnto God oure heauenlye father The which thyng that form or maner of prayeng whiche the eternall wisedome of the Father hath prescribed vnto vs dothe most chiefly req●●● of all his faithfull congregation biddyng vs to pray after this sorte Oure father which art in heauen c. Who can say this prayer but that he must praye for all the membres of the same body that he is of Againe doo not the other like wise in this prayer commende his saluation vnto God Moreouer the wordes of Iames be so that by theim wee are bounde to pray for those that praye for vs. If the dea Saintes than doo make intercession for vs we are bound also to praye or make intercession for them But that were to do the sainctes great iniurie and wrong For thus it is written in their owne canons The canōs do playnly affirm that to pray for the saincte vvhich bee in heauen it is to doo thē iniury Iniutiam f●●it martyri qui orat promartyre He do●he wrong vnto a martyr that prayeth for a martyr Secondely we are commaunded to pray one for an other that we may be saued Whereby it dooth appere that we ought to pray one for an other whiles we are yet in the way of saluation that we may spedily o●●ne to our ways ende But the dead Saints ar alredy at their iorneys end The praiers that vve make one for an other vvhile vve lyue vvhat they do require and vvhat they vvor● In fine this prayer that we make one for an other whiles we are yet a lyue fyrste it requireth a confidence or boldnes to praye vnto god the father and it is so farre of that is should stoppe that accesse or waye that by the bloude of his sonne Iesu Christe is opened for vs vnto him that rather it maketh it the easier Secondlye