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A49441 A treatise of the nature of a minister in all its offices to which is annexed an answer to Doctor Forbes concerning the necessity of bishops to ordain, which is an answer to a question, proposed in these late unhappy times, to the author, What is a minister? Lucy, William, 1594-1677. 1670 (1670) Wing L3455; ESTC R11702 218,889 312

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them that they are severed from the Actual partaking of the Sacraments He addes 1 Cor. 5. 2. as he reads it with an Introduction why rather have you not sorrow that he who hath done this might be taken away from among you Then he s●ips to verse 6. A little leaven leaveneth the whole Lump and therefore in the last verse 13. Put away therefore from among your selves that wicked person In which words saith he the Apostle describes what Excommunication is I yield all this but this doth not prove that this man was out of the visible ●hu●ch for although he be severed from actually participating many blessed Covenants o● God's yet not severed from his membe●●●●p This is but physicking the sick part you shall ●ind vers● 5. To deliver such an one to Sathan for the destruction of the flesh that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord like as a man who hath 〈…〉 member exposeth ●●to the Chirurgion that he may be cured of his former malady so that I observe two ends of Excommunication in this Chap●er the separation of the person from the Conversation with 〈◊〉 members lest they should be corrupted by him lest the Lump should be leav●ned and a punishment and chastisem●nt of the person that he m●y amend Now if that Chirurgery doth at ●ny time produce 〈◊〉 Effect of Amendmen● he then 〈◊〉 where he was to the Actual enjoying and participating of all ●ods mercies and Church-blessings The ob●truction is removed but 〈◊〉 man ought to be excommunicated for Destruction but for Amendment of his own person or the saving others from the con●agion of his 〈◊〉 so that it is a sign whilst he is ●xcommunicate that he is member a sick one only obstructed from the par●icipation● of m●ny ●cclesi●stical felicities but not taken away from the Esse and being of a Christi●n His 2d Argument is dr●●en from a Rule of the Canon Law That violators of Churches should be put out of the Communion of Christianity This is nothing but the participation of those Actual blessings that are communicated to such in w●om there is no ob●truction as suppose a mo●tified and numbed member it partakes not of that influence of spirits and blood which others which ●re livelyer members are indued with but yet it remains a member Thirdly He argues from the Fathers Hillary St. Chrysostome Theophylact who say to be made as an Heathen is to be cast out of the people of God cast out of the Church So likewis● St. Austin Every Christian qui à Sac●●dotibus excommunicatur Sathanae tr●ditur He who is ex●ommunicated by the ●acerdotes the Priests of God I render it is delivered to Sathan Now because out of the Church the Devil is as in the Church Christ I grant all these phrases to have their Truth That the Excommunicated man is out of the Church as I said before that is out of the participation of all those heavenly Covenants and mercies which are appropriated to them who in a more constant Conversation and fellowship have Commerce with it yet he loseth not all union Suppose then the Church a Body Politick a City this Baptized person one of the Corporation for some fault by him committed he is by them expelled the City untill such time as either he humble himself for his fault or else give such satisfaction as is enjoyned This man so long as he is out of the City loseth all priviledges of a Citizen yet not all union when he satisfies he is re-admitted upon his first Title so that Excommunication is a kind of suspension from the participation and execution of those Divine benedictions which other members have it is not a degradation from his Christian being like a Tree which is dead in the Winter and brings forth neither fruit nor leaf yet revives in the Spring or else like a withered part which by Chirurgery is recovered to a lively being Consider St. Pauls expression Rom. 11. 17. and the following part we are said to be graffed into Christ now that Act which grafts us in is baptism Now as we may see some branch of a graft in the Fruit season bearing neither fruit nor leaf giving forth no expression of livelyhood yet when we find by any Experience that there is any hope in it or a possibility of restoring it to a vivacity with care of Husbandry we know that branch is not dead nor utterly hath lost union because his restitution is by physick not re-grafting so it is with Baptized persons which being Grafts not Sprouts when any decay whatsoever is restored or repaired by repentance and sorrow for Sins not by re-grafting by Baptism it is a certain and undoubted sign that it retains still an union by the former Grafti●g So that this Act of Excommunication is nothing but his suspension from his Acting many duties of a Christian and an obstruction of the influences of many Graces of God to him but yet not a total destruction of either for as he may pray repent in himself and upon that justly require Absolution and the Church is bound to give it so before these he may receive motions and incitements to them and upon the use of those Talents proceed from grace to grace until he obtain such a measure of humiliation and repentance as ought to be accepted of the Church and accepted upon humiliation not Baptism again which is a sign the branch was not cut off but sick only so that now having spent I hope not wasted so much time and paper in Explicating what Excommunication doth Conceive my Answers to these pieces of Fathers thus By Excommunication a man is put out from many Actual priviledges and blessings which those who are not excommunited enjoy that they are put out of the Lap the Bosom the near Caresses and Embraces of the Church not out of the absolute being in or with her And lest any man should think this a forced Explication take an Instance in Mat. 27. 46. Our Saviour complains My God my God why hast thou forsaken me How can this be understood Not that the Deity had taken away that supe●natural hypostatical union but that for that while there was a suspence of the influx of the fulnesse of those all-comforting graces which were other whiles constantly attending his humanity Lastly Bellarmine disputes out of reason First Because Excommunication deprives a man of all Spiritual Commerce and he urgeth a piece out of Tertullian for it Cap. 39. of his Apology But the sence of him and Bellarmines Supposition is to be understood as I before Explained he is deprived of the Actual Conversation of ●he Church in many things not the union and therefore Tertullian in that place saith summum futuri Judicii praejudicium the greatest prejudice in this World of the future Judgement the greatest Injury towards it that a man can have to be barred from the Communion from the association of prayers but it canot exclude his own praying or
the power of it by Jesus Christ to obtain Mercy to whom he remains knit by his Baptism Again he urgeth It is the greatest punishment the Church can inflict I answer The greatest Excommunication is the greatest punishment but neither man nor men have power to sever that member from ●hrists body which he hath joyned Again Bellarmine Excommunication cannot be to any but Contumaci●us and Incorrigible Sinners because they will not hear the Church I answer what follows but that they who now are Contumacious anon at another time will be humble ●ast of all he urgeth In Absolution the phrase is Restituo te I restore thee to the unity of the Church and participation of members I answer he might have added what follows by way o● Explication in their forms of Absolution and to the Communion of the faithfull A man is restored to the full enjoying his union his membership by such a Communion which he had not before but only an union So now I think it appears if you apprehend the Church as a body natural Excommunication is an Obstruction which stops many Influences with which both head and members Communicate but not union If you apprehend the Church a political body Excommunication is a Suspension from City powers and priviledges untill some satisfaction but Conditional not an absolute annihilation of his Charter and this will appear out of that Phrase of St. Paul in the Chapter urged by Bellarmine 1 Cor. 5. 5. Deliver such a man to Sathan for the destruction of the Flesh that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus so that it seems by this Excommunication is a sharp Physick for the good of that man to make him ashamed to humble him for his correction not destruction and it appears again by his restitution which is only an Absolution not a new engra●●ing or an Absolution by a new readmission not a new Incorporation and this answers all the Objections that I have read either in Bellarmine or in any other SECT IV. Such as renounce the fellowship of the Church are members I Must now addresse my self to Hookers second Objection which is That such as renounce the fellowship of the Church though they have true Baptism yet are not ●●embers of the Church By this renouncing I think he means professing against it or let it be what it will turning Turk renouncing Christ he is yet a member he retains his true Baptism for by Baptism a man is accepted a Child of God and no more than he who renounceth his Father doth by that Act make himself not his Son no more can he unchild himself by any of these Actual oppositions Here in this he only sets down his Conclusion but brings no Argument for proof I will hunt them out amongst the School and Jesuites and clear the Truth as perspicuously as I can Cardinal Bellarmine in his 3d. Book De Ecclesià militante Cap. 4. handles this Question under this Title Whether Hereticks and Apostates which are baptized be parts and members of the Church He denyes it His fi●st Argument against it is drawn from Scripture 1 Tim. 1. 19. where it is said That some concerning faith have made shipwrack Where saith he by the metaphor of shipwrack he understands Hereticks who one part of the Ship being broken is fallen into the Sea ●or Answer I grant them to be Hereticks and Apostates I grant the Church their Ship I grant them in the Sea ready to perish yet even when they are there they belong to the Ship and perhaps were principal members of it not in it but of it and therefore read the next verse of whom were Hymeneus and Alexander whom I have delivered unto Sathan that they may learn not to blaspheme This great Pilot took care of them as members of his ship and endeavoured their recovery which was a sign they were still in union with the Church But saith he this is signified by the parable of our Saviour Luke 5. of the Net which was broken by the multitude of Fishes That word Parable slipt from the Cardinal un●dvisedly It was a real Story but the learnedest man in the world may let slip such an Expression But why any such sence should be forced on that Story I know not but only that such a Thing was done and if such a sence were granted it yields no more but that some men are slipt out of the blessing of the Church when they are ready to come to the shore even to Heaven But he urgeth further Titus 3. 10. A man that is an Heretick after the first and second Admonition reject Vers. 11. knowing that he that is such is subverted and sinneth being condemned of himself Now saith he if this Heretick were in the Church Titus would not have been commanded to reject him but exhort him I answer Reject him for a time for his Conviction to amendment as became a Carefull ●astor and a loving Father who intends the good of his Children by withholding Temporary favour for a season that so his Son may be ashamed and shame breed an Amendment Bellarmine adds out of St. Hier●me that he is not put out of the Church but puts himself out I grant it out of that glorious Communion and participation of Heavenly mysteries which belong to men of right faith and manners But he addes another place out of the 1 of John 2. 19. They went out from us but they were not of us which he expounds out of St. Augustine That they went out of the Church but if they had been of the Church by Election they would not have gone out from us I am sorry to read so learned a man forget himself I am sure in another Controversie he would not allow this Exposition nor can I allow it in this for without doubt many Elect do go out of the visible Church understand Election in the most rigid way they do go out and come in again that cannot be the right exposition therefore If you would have my sence of it we may observe that in the preceding verse the Apostle speaks of many Antichrists of these he saith that they went out of us that is out of the Communion with us now saith he they were not of us that is when they went out from us it may be they had been before but then they were grown to a defiance of us for if they had been of us they would not have gone out from us if they had had the same Principles they would not have left us This I Conceive the sence of this Text and indeed I know not whether any man hath given it this Exposition Those which I have looked in have given me no satisfaction of what Religion soever Now let us see what concerns this Text and perhaps will serve to Illustrate other Doubts The difficulty will be in this phrase to be of us that is our Society that may be diverse wayes in respect of that Inward Thing which