the Laws of England afterwards Marry the Lady Ogle So that Mr. Thynne's Death was in prospect from the beginning Gentlemen We shall prove to you as I did in some measure open before that the Count himself was pleased to give express order that the Polander should have a good Sword bought him That before he came into England he was very much troubled by reason of the stormy Weather for fear he should be cast away that he lodged him in his own Lodging the Night before this Act was perpetrated and that Captain Vratz was the Morning before and immediately after with the Count. Another thing Gentlemen that I had almost forgot The Count was willing to be instructed in the Laws of England and inquired Whether a man might lawfully ride out upon a Sunday and being told That after Sermon he might he was very well satisfied and the day he inquired of it was the day that the Murder was committed After the thing was done Count Coningsmark the next Morning pretended he was to go to Windsor and leaves his Lodging but instead of going to Windsor being still in his disguise he goes to Rotherhith by the Water-side and there I think he continues two or three days in a Black Peruque and that is disguise enough for such a Gentleman And afterwards he goes to Gravesend but I think he was upon the Water some time before he thought it convenient to land and there he was surprized in this disguise And when he was surprized and taken he shew'd himself to be in great disorder but being charged with the Fact acknowledged nothing of the Matter but how it should come to pass that he should lie so long disguised upon no pretence that can be known and afterwards to pretend that he had a business to effect and then he was to go into France that will lye upon him to answer But these are the inducing Evidences that we give to you his keeping the Polander in his House his disguising of himself and his inquiring Whether if he Killed Mr. Thynne he might not Marry my Lady Ogle his flight the next day and pretending to go to Windsor when he went quite the other way and all in a disguise And these persons not having any appearance or any reason whatsoever for any particular quarrel to Mr. Thynne but the Count having some disgust to him upon the Terms that the Witnesses will tell you of by and by and being related to the Count we must leave it to you to judge whether these Gentlemen did it singly and purely upon their own heads or whether they were not set upon it by the Count. Sir Fra. Winn. My Lord I shall not trouble you with repeating of our Evidence but we will begin and call our Witnesses directly to prove the Murder done by these Gentlemen we will prove the Fact downright upon them and then we shall afterwards come to the Count. Mr. Williams My Lord first we will direct our Evidence to the Principals and then to the Accessory Call William Cole and William Ellers L. C. J. Swear some persons to Interpret the Evidence that shall be given I do it for the sake of the Aliens that are of the Jury for some of them understand no English and they will not know what to make of the Evidence if they do not repeat it to them in their own Language Then Vandore and Wright were sworn for the King Sir N. Johnson My Lord desires that the Doctor and the Taylor that are in Prison may be sent for to be here for they are Witnesses for him Sir Fra. Winn. We desire they may be here too for they are Witnesses for the King and I believe they are here my Lord. Sir N. Johnson Mr. Vandore does not speak French Sir Will. Roberts Mr. Craven speaks Dutch and French very well Mr. Craven was sworn Sir N. Johnson The Count desires the favor of Pen and Ink. L. C. J. Let the Count have Pen and Ink. Mr. Williams Call William Cole and William Ellers Who appeared and were sworn Which is William Cole set him up Acquaint my Lord and the Jury how Mr. Thynne was Assaulted and the manner of it Cole My Lord my Master was coming up St. James-street from the Countess of Northumberlands Sir Fra. Winn. Name your Master Mr. Williams Who was your Master Cole Mr. Thynne And I had a Flambeau in my hand and was going before the Coach and coming along at the lower end of St. Albons-street I heard the Blunderbuss go off so upon that I turned my Face back and saw a great smoke and heard my Master cry out he was Murdered and I see three Horsemen riding away on the right side of the Coach and I pursued after them and cryed out Murder I ran to the upper end of the Hay-Market till I was quite spent and was able to go no further and turning back again my Master was got into the House and I understood he was wounded that is all I know Mr. Williams You say you heard a Blunderbuss go off and turning back you saw three Men riding away from the Coach Cole Yes Mr. Williams Look upon the Prisoners at the Bar Can you say all them or any of them were the men Cole No I cannot I did not see their Faces but I saw the Horse of one of them was a little Bay Horse Mr. Williams But do you take any of them Men to be one of the three Cole I did not see any of their Faces Sir Fra. Winn. What time of Night was it Cole A quarter after Eight Sir Fra. Winn. Pray what day of the Week Cole Sunday Sir Fran. Win. What day of the Month Cole The 11th or 12th of February Sir Fran. Win. Then where is William Ellers Pray do you tell the Court and the Jury how Mr. Thynne was Wounded and by whom and what you know of it Ellers My Lord I came with my Master from St. James-street from my Lady Northumberland's and as I came at St. Albans-street there came three Men Riding by the right side of the Coach and as they Rid one of them turned about and bid me stop you Dog and just as I looked about the fire was let into the Coach upon my Master and the Men ran away as fast as they could Sir Fran. Win. How many were there of them Ellers There were three Sir Fran. Win. Were those Men at the Bar or any of them the Persons Ellers I cannot tell Sir Fran. Win. What were the words they said when the Coach was stopped Hold hold or stop you Dog Mr. Williams What Condition was your Master in then Was he shot then Ellers Yes Mr. Williams We will give you some Evidence now out of their Examinations L. C. J. You had best give some Evidence of his Wounds Mr. Williams Yes we will Call Mr. Hobbs the Chirurgeon L. C. J. Look you Mr. Craven you hear what these Witnesses say tell it to the Gentlemen of the Jury
Count's Lodgings Dr. Harder Yes upon Saturday morning Mr. Williams Then he came along with you from the Count's Lodgings Dr. Harder Yes to my House Mr. Williams And you parted with him there Dr. Harder Yes the Captains man took him away with him Mr. Williams That was Berg wa'nt it Dr. Harder Yes Then this Evidence was interpreted to the Jury Mr. Craven He desires the Jury should know what the Doctor said about his Sickness L. Ch. J. Let it be repeated to them Mr. Craven He desires to know whether he may not speak it in French himself L. Ch. J. No the Interpreter must do it which was done My Lord would you ask any more Questions of the Doctor Count Conn No more Questions but them I have asked Sir Fr. Win. Call Thomas Howgood who was sworn Mr. Williams Pray did you sell any Sword to the Count Mr. Howgood I sold a Sword to the Governor a broad Horseman's Sword Mr. Williams When was this Mr. Howgood On Saturday was fortnight Mr. Williams What time was it that he bespoke it Mr. Howgood He bespoke it half an hour after six at night Mr. Williams What did he say to you when he bought it Mr. Howgood He said he would call for it about eight a Clock at night when he came from the Play Mr. Williams What kind of Sword was it Mr. Howgood An Horseman's Sword as broad as two fingers such as the Gentlemen of the Guards wear Sir Fr. Win. When he came for the Sword what said he Mr. Howgood He was angry it was not done and I told him that I would send it to him quickly Sir Fr. Win. Where was it sent Mr. Howgood To the Governor's Lodgings at the Academy Mr. Williams Now my Lord we will call several Persons that were privy to the concealing of this Gentleman that can give you a better account Richard Hays and Robert French Robert French appeared and was sworn Sir Fr. Win. Pray will you tell my Lord what you know of the Count 's concealing himself and changing his Habit. Mr. French I never saw him my Lord before I came here in Court but it seems he did lodg in my House three or four days Sir Fr. Win. How long is it since Mr. French Between three weeks and a month ago just ten days before the Murder Sir Fr. Win. What Name did he go by then Mr. French I did not know his Name Sir Fr. VVin. Who used to resort to him at that time L. Ch. J. You say Sir you saw him not what company did come to him Mr. French I did not see him indeed Sir Fr. VVin. Pray did Capt. Vratz come to him to your House Mr. French He lodged with him all the time Sir Fr. VVin. You say you know Capt. Vratz was there Mr. French Yes Mr. VVilliams Did Dr. Harder use to come to him Mr. French Yes several times a day Mr. VVilliams What Name did he enquire for him by Mr. French The Doctor took the Lodging and it was for a stranger I heard no Name at all Interpreter My Lord desires to know whether you did not suspect he took Physick in the House Mr. French I suppose the Doctor did give you an account of that I don't know that he did Interpret Did not your Maid know of any such thing Mr. French My Maid is here she will give you an account Sir Fr. VVin. Call Ann Prince who was sworn Pray do you acquaint my Lord what you know of Count Conningsmark whether ever you saw him at your Masters House in the Hay market Prince Yes he lodged there Mr. VVilliams When Prince He came thither last Friday was a month Mr. VVilliams How long did he stay there Prince Till VVednesday Mr. VVilliams At that time who used to frequent his Company Prince I know no Body but the Doctor that used to come to him Mr. VVilliams What Name did he go by Prince No Name at all as I know of they did not ask for him by any Name Mr. VVilliams Did the Captain use to come to him L. Ch. J. Her Master says he did lie there Prince Yes he used to lodg there Mr. VVilliams Did the Captain give him any Physick L. Ch. J. No but the Doctor did Sir Fr. VVin. He only asks a merry Qustion L. Ch. J. But we are now upon the Life and Death of a man pray let us have those Questions asked that are serious not such light things as are permitted in ordinary Cases Sir Fr. VVin. Now my Lord we will call Francis VVatts Mr. Craven Maid my Lord asks whether he did not take a Vomit in your House Prince Not that I know of Then Francis Watts was sworn L. Ch. J. How old is the Child Fr. VVatts Fifteen Years old last Christmass L. Ch. Baron Ask him whether he understands what an Oath is Mr. Thynne He was sworn before the King and Council L. Ch. Baron If he were sworn before the Council he may give Evidence here sure Sir Fr. VVin. Were you at the Counts Service at any time VVatts Yes Sir Fr. VVin. How long VVatts I was with him eleven days I came to him upon the Friday Sir Fr. VVin. How long was it before the Death of Mr. Thynne VVatts I think it was ten days before the Death of Mr. Thynne Sir Fr. VVin. What was your Employment with him VVatts His Boy to wait upon him Sir Fra. Winn. Did you lye in the same Lodging Watts No at my Fathers Sir Fr. Winn. What was the Agreement between your Father and the Count Watts Six pence a day and my diet Sir Fr. Winn. What Company did you observe came to the Count's Lodgings Watts That Gentleman there in the black Perriwig Sir Fr. Winn. Was he often with your Master Watts Yes every day Sir Fr. Winn. How many Lodgings had he while you were with him Watts Three one in the Hay-market and one in Rupert-street and then the last in St. Martins Mr. Williams Thus Child Do you remember the time of killing Mr. Thynne Watts Yes Mr. Williams Were you in your Master's Service then Watts Yes I was Mr. Williams Who was in your Master's Company that morning before Mr. Thynne was killed Watts I came up as I used to do in the morning to my Master and he aked me what was the matter with the bustle in the Street and I told him some body was taken upon suspicion for killing Esq Thynne Sir Fr. Wynn. That was on the Monday morning but the Sunday morning before what Company did you observe there then Watts I cannot tell any thing exactly of the Sunday morning Sir Fr. Wynn. Was Captain Vratz there Watts I can't exactly remember Sir Fra. Winn. What time in the Evening was it reported Mr. Thynne was kill'd Watts About eight a clock Sir Fra. Winn. Can you tell who brought the first news Watts One of my Lady Seymour's Maids who was telling the People of it below Sir Fra. Winn. Did you observe any body come to
while after returns again and Mr. Hanson comes in with him he asked me why I did not come sooner I told him I had some other Business I was with some French Merchants to look upon some Goods So he bid the Pole pay me for my trouble and take up his things and go along with him and he did do so and I never saw the Pole afterwards L. Cb. J. You that are the Interpreters repeat what he bath said to the Jury which was done Sir Fr. Win. We have done with this man the use we make of him is to follow this Polander and we shall bring him to the Count by and by Call Dr. Frederick Harder who was sworn L. Ch. J. The Doctor understands English don't he Sir Fr. Win. Yes we are told he does Mr. Williams How long have you known the Count that stands there at the Bar Dr. Harder I have known him a good while it may be this four or five Years I have known him four or five Years Mr. VVilliams How long have you known Captain Vratz Dr. Harder About a Year and a half or two Years Mr. VVilliams Was my Lord and Capt. Vratz acquainted then Dr. Harder Yes Mr. Williams Was he in employment under my Lord was he in the Counts Service Dr. Harder He was with the Count but whether he was his Companion I cannot tell Mr. VVilliams Did he live with the Count Dr. Harder Yes Mr. VVilliams Did Capt. Vratz when the Count came last over into England come over with him Dr. Harder Yes by my knowledg L. Ch. J. Do you know it or not Dr. Harder Capt. Vratz came to me and told me my Lord desired to speak with me and I went with him to my Lord. Sir Fr. Win. Was that the first Message you received from the Count Dr. Harder Yes it was Mr. Williams How long was that ago Dr. Harder The same day the Morocco Embassador did exercise in Hide-Park Sir Fr. Win. How long is that ago Dr. Harder About a month ago Sir Fr. Win. What was that his first Lodging after he came last into England Dr. Harder It was in the Hay-market L. Ch. J. Was it a corner House as the other Witness saith or not Dr. Harder Yes it was Mr. Williams Was the Count a private Lodger there Dr. Harder He lay in his Bed when I came to him he came as a Traveller privately Mr. Williams Did he go by his own Name or another Name Dr. Harder No Body did question him about his Name but when I did come to him I did discourse him about his Body Mr. Williams Pray Sir thus you went often to visit him pray did you enquire for him by his own Name or any other Name Dr. Harder He desired that he might be private because he was to take some Medicines and he would not have it known Mr. Williams Now Sir I would ask you did you observe him to be in any Disguise Did he wear a Perriwig or how Dr. Harder He had a Perriwig Mr. Williams Was it a fair Perriwig or what colour Dr. Harder It was brown or black Sir Fr. Win. Sir was he in a disguise or no Dr. Harder He had his own Clothes but he had a Perriwig Sir Fr. Win. Pray what Name did he go by his right Name or any particular Name Dr. Harder In the first beginning I gave him no Name but said he to me If any Body ask you about me I would not be known for if they know that I lie privately thus they will think I ail some ill Distemper therefore I would have you call me by the Name of Carlo Cuski Mr. Williams Were you with him pray Sir upon the Sunday Morning that Mr. Thynne was murdered Dr. Harder I cannot certainly tell but I was with him in the afternoon Sir Fr. Win. Pray call your self to mind Sir Dr. Harder I cannot certainly tell Sir Fr. Win. What time were you with him in the Evening Dr. Harder At nine a Clock at night or thereabouts Mr. Williams Did you receive any Letter from Capt. Vratz at any time Dr. Harder I did upon Saturday morning the Saturday before Mr. Thynne was murdered Sir Fr. Win. Have you that Letter about you Dr. Harder No. Sir Fr. Win. What was in the Letter Dr. Harder He desired me to go to the Count who had a desire to speak with me I came there and had some speech with him about his Indisposition I told him he had better stay till next day before he took Physick because it was cold Weather And after that went with the Polander to my Lodging and the Captains man came in and then said here is a man that will direct you to Capt. Vratz Lodging which I did not know Mr. Williams Look you Sir you say you went to the Count Did you shew the Count that Letter from Capt. Vrats or no Dr. Harder The Count saw it Mr. Williams Then hear a little When was it you shew'd the Letter to the Count Was it Saturday or Sunday Dr. Harder It was Saturday Mr. Williams Now was the Polander then in the Count's Lodgings or no Dr. Harde Yes he was Mr. Williams Was there any discourse about him then Dr. Harder I had never seen him in my life Mr. VVilliams But was there any with the Count Dr. Harder No not at all Sir Fr. VVin. Then upon your Oath I ask you once more Was the Polander ever in Company with you and my Lord at any time Dr. Harder No. Sir Fr. VVin. Upon the Sunday upon your Oath Dr. Harder No. Sir Fr. VVin. Nor the Saturday evening Dr. Harder No I have not seen him since that morning when the Captains man took him along with him to his Master Mr. Williams Pray how came the Polander into your company on Saturday morning Dr. Harder I had him from my Lords that morning Mr. Williams Then my Lord and the Polander were together Dr. Harder No they were not together Mr. VVilliams Was the Polander in my Lord's Lodgings Dr. Harder Yes the Polander was below stairs Mr. VVilliams And did you take him from the Lodging Dr. Harder Yes I did Mr. VVilliams How long did he continue with you Dr. Harder Not at all I went home with him Mr. VVilliams Had you no discourse with him Dr. Harder No none at all Mr. VVilliams Where did you part with him Dr. Harder I brought him to my House and when he came in a Doors the Captain 's man being there I told him there was a man would shew him the Captains Lodgings and he took him away along with him Mr. VVilliams You say the Captains Man had the Polander from you pray name that man Dr. Harder I cannot tell his Name Mr. VVilliams Was his name Berg Dr. Harder I believe it was Sir Fr. VVin. You say you delivered a Letter from Capt. Vratz on Saturday morning to the Count Dr. Harder Yes Sir Fr. VVin. Did the Count read the Letter and tell you the Contents of
your Master's Lodgings afterwards Watts Yes Sir Fra. Winn. Pray who came Watts That Gentleman in the black Periwigg Mr. Williams Pray in what Habit was he and how came he in Watts He came in a great Coat I can't tell whether it was Cloath or Chamblet Mr. Williams And what did he speak to any Body or go strait up Watts No he spoke to no Body but went strait up Stairs Mr. Williams Did he go up to your Master's Lodgings Watts Yes I believe so but I stay'd below in the Shop Mr. Williams How long did you stay in the Shop Watts I stay'd there about half an Hour Mr. Williams Did you leave him there Watts Yes I did Mr. Williams Did he continue there all the time that you were in the House Watts Yes Mr. Williams What time did you go away Watts About three Quarters of an Hour after that Gentleman came in Sir Fra. Withins Do you remember you had any discourse with the Count about riding on Sundays Watts He asked me on Sunday in the Fore-noon whether People were suffered to ride about the Streets on Horse-back on Sundays Sir Fra. Winn. This was that Sunday morning was it Watts Yes he asked if they might be suffered to ride about the Streets on Sunday I told him yes before Sermon time and after Sermon time Sir Fra. Win. About what time of the day was it that he had this discourse Watts About ten or eleven a Clock Sir Fra. Winn. Are you sure it was Sunday Watts Yes Sir Fra. Winn. Then I ask you another Question upon Sunday Morning or any other time do you remember that the Polander was with the Count your Master Watts He came in on the Saturday morning Mr. Williams Was he in the Company or Presence of the Count Watts I was above stairs when he came in Sir Fra. Winn. What do you know of any Sword that was delivered to him Watts Upon the Sunday Morning there was a Sword brought to my Master's Lodgings and my Master's man took it of me and carried it up stairs and this man the Polander afterwards had it below stairs Mr. Williams When was this Sword brought to your Master's house Watts It was on the Sunday morning Mr. Williams What the Cutler brought the Sword Watts No it was sent by a Porter from Mr. Hanson Mr. Williams What Room was it carryed into when it was brought Watts I think I did not carry it up Yes truly now I remember I did and delivered it to my Master Mr. Williams Pray what did the Count say to you Watts I asked him if there needed an Answer of the Note I carryed with it and he said no. Mr. Williams To whom was that Sword delivered afterwards Watts It was brought down and afterwards this Polander had it Mr. Williams That man there Watts Yes Mr. Williams You say that the Sword was given to the Polander Pray speak that the Jury may hear Who brought down the Sword Watts I saw it in the Polander's keeping when it was below but I cannot say who brought it down Sir Fra. Winn. Where did the Polander dine on Saturday Watts He dined with my Master's Man and I on Saturday Sir Fra. Winn. Where did he lye that Night At whose Chamber Watts At our Lodgings in the Garret in my Master's Man's Chamber Sir Fran. Winn. What day was this do you say Watts Saturday Mr. Williams When the Polander had the Sword do you remember any Boots that he had under his Arm. Watts Yes he had Boots under his Arm. Mr. Williams And he had the Sword with him when he went away Watts Yes Mr. Williams Had he any Coat Watts Yes a new Coat Mr. VVilliams Well I ask you once more what time of day was it that he went away with the Sword and the Boots Watts It was in the Fore-noon Mr. VVilliams VVhat day of the Week Watts Sunday morning L. Chief Just Ay but your Doctor that you examined before says the Polander went away with him and he was not there on Sunday Morning Sir Fra. VVinn It is true my Lord it was too tender a point for the Doctor he lyes under some Suspicion and 't is proximus ardet with him L. Chief Just Well call him again Look you Doctor you were asked before and now you are asked again were you at Count Coningsmark's Lodgings on the Sunday Morning Dr. Harder I cannot certainly tell L. Chief Just When did you see the Polander at the Count's Lodgings and whether was it on Sunday morning Dr. Harder On Sunday Morning I did not see him The only time was when I fetched him from my Lords I have not seen him before nor since L. Chief Just Then call up the Boy again VVhere did the Polander dine on Saturday VVatts He dined with me and my Master's Man L. Chief Just VVhere Watts Below in the Kitchin of our Lodgings L. Ch. Just Where lay the Polander that night Watts He lay in our Garret L. Ch. Just When went he from your Master's Lodgings Watts On Sunday morning Mr. Williams Had he an old Coat or a new Coat upon him Watts He had a new Coat L. Ch. Just Was the Doctor with him Watts Yes the Doctor went away with him Dr. Harder I have not seen the Polander above once in my Life Sir Fra. Win. But were you at the Count 's on Sunday morning or no I ask you Dr. Harder I do not know whether it was Saturday or Sunday L. Ch. Just But when you fetched him away was it Saturday or Sunday morning Dr. Harder My Lord I can't very well remember L. Ch. Just Had the Polander a Sword when you went away with him Dr. Harder I cannot positively say but as Travellers commonly have he might have a Sword Sir Fra. Win. Now come to your self and deal honestly for you are upon your Oath I ask you friend this You say he might have a Sword do you remember a pair of Boots Dr. Harder No I do not Sir Fra. Win. Do you remember the Coat he had uppermost Dr. Harder Yes he had something under his Coat but I don't know it was Boots L. Ch. Baron Had he a Buff-coat under his Campaigne Watts Yes Sir Fra. Withins Let me ask you one Question young man Do you remember you saw any Musquetoon in your Master's Lodging Watts I did see a Gun there Sir Fra. Withins When was that Watts I saw it upon Saturday Mr. Williams The Musquetoon or Gun that was in your Masters Lodgings was it that which was bought by the Polander or no Watts I can't tell that Mr. Williams Was it a long Piece or a short Piece Watts It was not a short Piece L. C. Just Did the Polander take it away with him Watts No not that I know of Mr. Williams Now young man I would ask you as to Monday morning About what time on Monday morning did you come to your Masters Lodgings Watts It was between 7 and 8 a clock a little
And said I 't is the most barbarous thing that ever was done Certainly says my Lord this Mr. Thynne must have Correspondence and Commerce with some Lady that this Captain knew that belonged to the Court or he would never have done it As for the Polander I told him that he had confessed he wept mightily With that my Lord seemed very much concerned and took up his Clothes and bit them and sat awhile up but was very much discomposed and then desired to lye down Sir Fran. Winn. That was when you told him the Polander had confessed Mr. Kid. Yes my Lord was mightily altered in his Countenance Sir Fran. Winn. Did you at the first time that you seized him charge him with the Murder Mr. Kid. No I did not Sir Fran. Winn. Was he in a Black Perriwig Mr. Kid. His Cap fell off and his Perriwig just as I came to him Sir Fran. Winn. Set up Mr. Gibbons Pray will you tell what passed Mr. Gibbons My Lord Assoon as ever he came to shore I walked by him and gave him a little kind of a justle and my reason was to see whether he had not a black Coat under his Campaign I walked close to him just in this manner as he walked along so he turns about again and went down to the Water side and asked the Water-men Watermen Have you stowed your Boat he answered Yes Then come away said he so soon as he came back again I catched him fast hold by the Arm and the first word he said to me was What do you come to Rob me said I my Lord you are my Prisoner and I told him I was the King's Messenger that had waited there several days for him holding of him very hard whether that was the occasion of it or the Waterman that were on the other side of him he dropped down his Sword between his Leggs but when I named his Name he gave a little start and his Perriwig dropped off of his Face We went up the Street to the Mayor and the People crowding about us were very rude and very rugged and he desired he might be well used We did all we could to keep the People from him we went up to the Mayor's House and when we came there I desired he might be searched whether he had any Arms He said he had none and there was none Sir Fran. Winn. When you had the Custody of him whither did you carry him Mr. Gibbons We carried him to the Mayor's House and after we removed him from his House to an Inn. Sir Fran. Winn. What did you do the next Day Mr. Gibbons We stayed there about some 2 or 3 Hours After an hour or half an hours time near upon an hour my Lord came to me and asked me my Name and he said the reason was that after his Trouble was over he would give me thanks for my Civility to him Captain Sinkleer who stood by gave him my Name before I could that it was Gibbons Yes said I my Name is Gibbons and I belong to the Duke of Monmouth why says he the Duke of Monmouth has no Command now and therefore how could I take him by his Order My Lord said I I do not apprehend you by his Order you have killed a very good Friend of mine and had not Providence ordered it otherwise you had like to have killed a more particular Friend and a Master So my Lord he seemed to be very sorry at that but says he I don't think they would have done any harm to the Duke of Monmouth Sir Fran. Winn. What else did he say Mr. Gibbons I think I have told you all that is Material Sir Fran. Winn. Were you in the Boat at any time and gave him any Account of the Man's having Confessed what did he say to it Mr. Gibbons Sir I was not there nor I did not come up in the same Boat with him Mr. Williams Did he mention any thing about a stain to his Blood Mr. Gibbons I ask your pardon he did so Mr. Williams What did he say Mr. Gibbons Says he it is a Stain upon my Blood but one good Action in the Wars or one Lodging upon a Counterscarp will wash away all that L. C. Justice What did he say was a Stain upon his Blood Mr. Gibbons My Lord If you please I will tell you As I said he asked me my Name because he would come to give me thanks for my Civility after his Trouble was over the Captain being quicker than I told him my Name Yes Sir said I 't is Gibbons and I belong to the Duke of Monmouth said he he has no Command now how could you come upon his Order said I I do not come upon his Command but you have killed a very good Friend of mine and a Country-man and if Providence had not ordered it otherwise you had killed a more particular Friend of mine and a Master that I had served many years said he I don't think they would have done the Duke of Monmouth any Injury after that he walked up and down a while and then said he 't is a stain upon my Blood but one good Action in the Wars or Lodging upon a Counterscarp will wash away all that The Mayor was in the Room and several others Sir Fran. Winn. Pray Sir one thing more when you did speak to him of Confession did he say any thing to you about Captain Vratz Mr. Gibbons Sir he was only asking of me how things were what the people said or some such thing I was not forward to tell him at first but afterwards I did tell him that the Captain had made a Confession though it was a thing I did not know then Says he I do not believe the Captain would confess any thing L. C. Justice Did he say so Mr. Gibbons Yes he did to the best of my remembrance Sir Fran. Winn. We have done with our evidence my Lord. L. C. Justice My Lord Coningsmarke will you ask him any thing Count Coningsmarke No. L. C. Justice Then the next thing is you heard the Evidence that is given against you Now you must come to your defence I will put you in mind of some things my Lord which things it will concern you to give some Accompt of It is here laid to your Charge That you were Accessory to this Murder of Mr. Thynne and that you were the person that directed and designed it And these Evidences there are against you that you were cognizant of this and that you were the Person that designed this That you came here into England about a fortnight or 3 weeks before the death of Mr. Thynne that Captain Vratz who was one of them that killed him came with you that he lay at your Lodging that he was constantly with you that you lay Incognito there and private would not be known what your name was that you shifted Lodgings from time to time that Borosky the Polander came over by your
Can't he give an account of it himself Mr. Williams No my Lord his Evidence must be Interpreted to them by the Interpreter L. C. Justice The Doctor 's Evidence hath been heard already about the same matter Sir N. Johnson He desires my Lord to know this whether he may not say the fame things over again to the Jury in French there are a great many Persons of quality that understand it and they will see whether he speak true L. C. Justice Let him if he pleases Sir Fran. Winn. But then my Lord I hope that your Lordship will tell the Jury it goes for nothing without Proof Then the Count spake to the Jury in French L. C. Justice My Lord I do not know whether the Gentlemen that are of your right hand heard you or not Jury-man We understand not French Then the Count spake it in Dutch Interpreter He says if it had not been for the great stormy Weather the Polander had been sooner in London for he sent for him before He says the Letters go from Strasburgh to Hamburgh in 7 days and that most commonly Ships do come from thence in 8 days but in a great deal less time then the Polander came over in And he says that he writ 4 Months before to setch the Polander over and he might have been long ere now if it had not been for the Weather L. C. Justice Then my Lord I would ask you some more Questions which it concerns you to Answer Upon what occasion did you make your discourse of Mr. Thynne's death to Mr. Hanson Had you any discourse with him and upon what occasion Sir N. Johnson My Lord he says in common Discourses 't is impossible to give an Accompt of the Discourse or remember the occasion of it so long ago L. C. Justice Ask him if he had any quarrel with Mr. Thynne Or knew Mr. Thynne Sir N. Johnson He says my Lord that he never had any quarrel with Mr. Thynne nor to the best of his remembrance with these eyes never saw Mr. Thynne L. C. Justice Then I ask you this my Lord Did you ever hear Mr. Thynne had married my Lady Ogle before you last came into England Interpreter He says he never heard of it till he was going to Strasburgh and then all the whole Town did talk of it L. C. Justice How long is that ago Interpreter Half a year ago L. C. Justice Then it was before his last coming into England Sir Fr. Winn. My Lord his discourse with Mr. Hanson was not when he was last in Town but before L. C. Justice Then pray ask him this What occasion he had to ask the Boy upon Sunday Whether Horses might ride about the Town of a Sunday Interpreter He says my Lord this is a very strange thing That he should go and ask a Scullion-Boy Whether people might ride on Sundays when he himself over and over again has rid upon Sundays to Hide-Park as many Persons of quality do L. C. Justice Has he any body to prove it Sir N. Johnson Here is Major Ogelthorpe who with divers other Gentlemen testified they had seen him riding diverse times on Sundays in Hide-Parke L. C. Justice Then that Question signifies nothing there could be nothing in that Question Sir N. Johnson My Lord he desires that I may be examined concerning this Boy of what I heard by chance from the Boy himself and I will give you an account of it upon my Faith and Reputation L. C. Justice Do so Sir Nathaniel say what you can say Sir N. Johnson My Lord I having had the honour to serve a while under my Lord's Father I was desirous knowing the honour of the Family and bearing a great respect to it to do my Lord all the reasonable Service I could So hearing my Lord was taken and in Newgate I went to wait upon him and coming there Mr. Richardson told me there was a little Boy waited at the Count's door for his Wages as he said So I spake to the Boy and asked him what does thou stay for he told me for his Wages Said I certainly my Lord will pay you his Wages how long have you serv'd him said he a little while and then said I if you lived with him what do you know of this business And then of himself he began and told me Only this I know that Vratz was in my Master's Chamber that night and the Polander that Night went out with a pair of Boots under his Arm and more then this I do not know Said I. Boy who do you serve Says he I have no Master at present but then of his own accord he told me Sir Thomas Thynne had promised him a place and in the mean time I am says he to go to serve my Lord Privy-Seal so my Lord gave him Twenty Shillings for his Wages Interpreter My Lord desires the Boy may be asked whether he did not go to fetch Physick L. C. Justice Ask him where is the Boy Watts No I do not remember it L. C. Justice Now you should put the Count in mind Sir Fran. Winn. We observe what a sort of Interpreter Sir Nath. Johnson is He speaks more like an Advocate than an Interpreter he mingles Interpreter and Witness and Advocate together I don't know what to make of him L. C. Justice The Count had taken Physick that day Sir Thomas Thynne My Lord I desire to be heard I never spake to the Boy in all my Life Mr. Thynne Nor I. But he gave the same Testimony he gives now before the King and Council L. C. Justice Look you Sir Thomas it does not concern you at all to speak to that there is no reflection made upon you in it But my Lord Conningsmarke it will concern you a little to shew upon what occasion Captain Vratz came to you that Night that Mr. Thynne was killed Interpreter He says my Lord he can't tell why he came there it 's a proper Question to ask Captain Vratz himself L. C. Justice That can't be Interpreter He says my Lord he kept his Chamber at that time he had taken cold upon his taking Physick and the Captain came to give him a visit and he never reflected upon any one he came for he was lying upon his Bed L. C. Baron Pray ask my Lord this Why this man that was sent over to attend Horses should come upon the Friday and a Campaign Coat be bought him on the Saturday and he furnished with a Sword on the Sunday Interpreter My Lord the Noise is great but I suppose your Lordship desires to know what was the reason why he bought a Sword for him and a Coat L. C. Baron Ay and how he came by the Buff-Coat Interpreter He says he had that before L. C. Baron But why must he have such a strong Basket-hilted Sword furnished him in a days time Interpreter He says my Lord As to the Clothes when he saw him with all his Clothes torn he must of
And then my Lord upon the Monday morning when the Boy comes in the Count asks him What was the matter with the Bustle in the Street the last night Will any man in England believe but that he had had earlier news of it And for what reason should he ask the Question if Mr. Hanson speaks true who brought the news in from Whitehall But the great Question that we wonder should be asked the Boy is What Mr. Thynne was which certainly was a very odd expression if we consider what Mr. Hanson says That the Count had mentioned him in his discourse and my Lady Ogle too One of the Count's Answers was It could not be imagined that he could speak to a Scullion Boy but you see the Boy swears it and tells it so as that it is very probable We now come my Lord to give an account of his Flight The Father of the Boy comes in the morning And I would observe though he pretended his business and his distemper brought him over and that he was ill and under Cure yet this matter made the place too hot to hold him stay here he durst not immediately he forgot his Physicians prescriptions and gave order to his man to send away his things Then the Boy 's Father was sent for and the Portmantles are given him and he is told my Lord was going to Windsor but when he came to Charing-cross the things are put into a Coach in the Strand and from thence they went for Rotherith Then came the man at whose house he lay and he was a Swede and by the way I would observe the Witnesses are most of them my Lord 's own Friends unwilling to tell the truth till we get it and that very hardly from them This man was very unwilling to tell his knowledge but he got him the Cloaths which Cloaths by the bulk of the man one would think would hardly fit the Count but the more he was disguised the more was his security and when he was asked this Question Why he desired to have those Cloaths to secure him He said at last It was to prevent Trouble Now let us consider my Lord whether the Count has given any answer to that My Lord there is nothing in what he said under pardon He says He went away because he was afraid the People would tear him in pieces before he could justifie himself If he were innocent he knew where to go to be secure from any hurt from the People he might have applied himself to your Lordship or to any other Magistrate He is so ingenious he could not but know he might have protected himself under the Government which protects and secures any man whatsoever if he be innocent I have these two things more to mention and then I shall leave it to your Lordship and the Jury and one is the Evidence of Mr. Gibbons and Mr. Kid. Mr. Kid gives that which to me is a very material Evidence of what passed when they seized him As they were coming up the River the Count asks him Whether there were any good Lodgings in Newgate and particularly exppressed his care of the Captain to ask whether he were well lodged And when he was told that the Polander had confessed he says he seemed on the sudden to be very much concerned bit his Cloaths and threw himself along with some agony My Lord an innocent man needed not to use any such actions Then comes Mr. Gibbons who was very instrumental in the pursuing of him and is known to be an honest man he gives this Evidence That when there was a discourse about Mr. Thynne and his old Master the Duke of Monmouth the Count presently replied They meant to have done the Duke of Monmouth no harm and walking about the room on a sudden burst out into this expression This is a stain upon my Blood but one good Action in the Wars or lodging upon a Counterscarp will wash it all away Now my Lord as to what he answers to this I say any man may make that evasion which he would excuse it by to say that the accusation is a scandal or a stain may be worse than the guilt of the action But your Lordship and the Jury see plainly If so be the thoughts of a man 's own heart be that he is guilty it will break out some way or other These things I only repeat I leave them to the consideration of the Jury But when I have said this there is one thing more and that is above all relating to the Captain Says Mr. Gibbons I did not know that the Captain had confessed but I did venture to say he had but the Count replied He did not believe the Captain had confessed My Lord you see how the Captain appears before you and if the Count will take upon him to say he does not believe the Capt. woâ—â—â—â—onfess it doth strongly argue he knew as much of the Capt.'s mind as he himself Then look upon the resolute behaviour of the Capt. the familiarity he lived in with the Count that he had always been a dependent upon his Family it shews some reason for his assurance of secrecy from the Capt. that he would not confess the Author of this most notorious Murder and it lies heavy upon him My Lord I look upon the discovery of this as a very miraculous thing And pray consider Gentlemen where shall a man go to settle his thoughts for the Original business Do you or can you think it was begun invented and contrived by yonder three men To what end or purpose or for what advantage to them You have heard the Evidence that I have repeated to you You have heard what this Lord has said for himself how he has fled and what has been done My Lord I will not use any thing of argument to perswade the Jury but I cannot chuse but say we know no where to go for the Author of this Villanous Fact nor whom to accuse as the prime Contriver but this Count before you I pray the God of Heaven to direct you in your enquiry and if I have said any thing amiss I beg your Pardon for it Then a grèat shout was made which the Court rebuked the People for Mr Williams My Lord I did not think to have said any thing more in this case but I must crave your Lordship and the Juries patience for a few words As for the three persons at the Bar the Pole the Capt. and the Lieutenant it is Gentlemen very notorious they are guilty of this most Hellish Murder But all the labour and difficulty of this matter is how far this Count is Guilty or not Guilty Pray Gentlemen do but observe the nature of this Crime and the manner of our Evidence that has been given you The Crime he is accused of is for being Accessary to a Wilful Murder Accessary before the Fact Contriving of it and laying the Train which these persons were made use of