it no small degree derogatorie to the very foundation of Nobility it selfe which is the step and circle that compasseth your Royall Throne that those who beare a Title and claime a precedencie before many of us should fall so low in the peoples eyes and esteeme as to be daily subject to Arrests of their persons and all other circumstances of disrespects which your meanest subjects undergoe being in the eye of the Law but Commoners To conclude this our cause of griefe being in our opinion the practise of it new and unusuall in the consequence of it not without danger and discontentment to your Realme and subjects of all degrees in the nature of it contrary to the foundation of the grounds of Honour laid in this Kingdome and in the whole course of it breeding ill effects to the service of your Majestie and the publique and dis-value and contempt to Nobility it selfe which is the degree interposed immediately betwixt your Majesty and your people Wee can no where so justly appeale as to your Majesty the fountaine of Honour for a timely remedy against this great and growing inconvenience both for the present and future And as your Majesties Honour is equally discerned in this with the interest of your Kingdomes and Subjects so wee doubt not but it shall appeare to the world that your Majesties gracious care to reduce and maintaine your Nobility in their ancient lustre shall equally tend to your Majesties service and happinesse and to our contentment Sir Nathaniel Rich. I am confident the grace of the King hath beene abused in this that therefore the Privy Counsellours of the House may know whether it was his Majesties direction It is moved that Secretary Cooke must first declare his knowledge in this One Crosse gave intimation first of the persons to the Secretary Super totam materiam It is evident that the Colledge at Clarkenwell is a Colledge of Jesuites holden under a forreigne supreame head Sir Francis Seymor taxeth Master Attornies affection and judgement in this and also declareth continuall Letters from Master Attorney in stay of proceedings against Recusants You see in this House how sleightly Master Attorney hath put over a businesse of this weight M. Long. Crosse the Pursevant saith there were eleven men in the Prison and the Keeper of that Prison saith they were delivered by Warrant from the Councell board Sir Iohn Elliott No man could finde a way on which to vent mischiefe against the Church and State so much as by protecting these men that this may be fixed on that great Lord the Lord of Dorset that hath I feare soyled his fingers too farre in this businesse And on Master Attorney at whom I am sorry to nominate so often in this case of Religion in stopping of proceedings against Recusants Master Recorder is ordered to be sent unto to be examined in this rather then to bee sent for having formerly had the honour to sit in the Chaire Secretary Cooke saith we shall desire the King being mercifull in case of bloud to give direction for the reprieving the condemned Priests Sir Iohn Elliott I doubt not but when we shall declare the depth of this to his Majestie but he will render them judgement that gave him advice herein Sir Nathaniel Rich. These Jesuites are bound by sureties to answer further at Councell Board I wish those bonds may produce those men that by the examination of them we might out with the whole pack of Benefactors and Countenancers Master Long saith that hee offering at the Sessions the evidence by order from Master Attorney the Lord chiefe Justice Richardson interrupted him and told him he must speake to the point in issue whether Priests or no Priests and hereupon the Judges consulted amongst themselves Master Selden saith he was present at the Sessions and plaine Treason proved and nothing done in it The further examination of this is referred to a select Committee Monday the 16. of February Anno 1628. A Petition of complaint against Sir Henry Martin for the taking the goods of one Browne who dyed intestate to his owne private use Sir Henry Martin If I prove not my selfe as cleare in this as Saint Iohn Baptist let me be accounted a Jew Referred to the Committee for course of Justice At the Committee for Religion Master Strowde That the Lord Chiefe Justice may be called to give accompt of his stay of Justice in the execution of the condemned Jesuite which he ought to have done though his Majestie signified his pleasure to the contrary Chancellour of the Dutchie That this was a thing so ordinary for a Chiefe Justice to doe in Queene Elizabeth and King Iames their time as also a Declaration in Starre-Chamber that all condemned Priests should be sent to the Castle at Wisbitch and from thence though the King had given no order for the Replevy hee might have taken this Warrant for his proceedings Master Selden reported from the Committee the further examination of Master Long concerning the proceedings of Newgate against the Jesuites whereby it plainly appeareth that the evidence tendered in Court at Newgate did plainly testifie these men to bee Priests yet the Lord Richardson did reject the same against the sentence of the rest of the Judges and Justices present whereby it is plaine that he dealt under hand to the same Jesuites Ordered that two members shall bee sent to each Judge that were present at the Sessions at Newgate who were said to bee the Lord Chiefe Justice of the Kings Bench the Chiefe Justice of the Common Pleas Justice Whittlocke Justice Iones and Justice Crooke Thursday the 17. of February Anno 1628. Master Chambers preferred another Petition in complaint of a Warrant newly proceeding from the Councell Board for the stay of the Merchants goods unlesse they pay the duties that were due in King Iames his time Sir Iohn Elliott You see as by the last answer from the Exchequer the Merchants were bound within that Court from all means of comming by their owne goods It is ordered the Customers shall attend the House on Thursday in the meane time it is referred to the former Committee Ordered a Committee of six to take all the names of the Fast and to meet at Church by eight of the clocke in the morning Ordered that a Committee shall consider of the speediest way to put the Merchants into possession of their goods without which it is conceived wee sit here in vaine Sir Thomas Hobby reported from the Lord Chiefe Justice Hide That he doth not remember any papers tendered by Master Long were rejected or that he affirmed they were dangerous persons and a Colledge of Jesuites But howsoever Master Long tendered nothing to prove them so but that he held divers papers in his hands Master Wansford reported from the Lord Chiefe Justice Richardson who said Master Long did discourse of the place and House but did not presse the rending of the papers neither doth hee know what were in the papers
neither knew of any thing to prove the persons Jesuites Sir Thomas Barrington delivereth the answer of Justice Iones who saith there were some papers offered by Master Long but hee knew not the contents thereof nor the reason why they were refused but hee came late for want of health and the second day was not there at all Sir Miles Fleetwood delivereth the Answer of Justice Whitlocke who said hee came late and therefore understood not the businesse and the second day was not there at all The like was reported by Sir William Constable from Justice Crooke Sir Thomas Barrington saith although Justice Iones did not write the name of the Lord Chiefe Justice yet in discourse named him to be the man that said the point in proofe is not whether they bee Priests or no Priests Sir Nathaniel Rich. Here is a charge of high nature on the Judges by Master Long that now Master Long may make his charge or suffer for it for there were witnesses enough in the Court. Ordered Master Long to be here on Thursday morning Ordered that the Justices about the Towne shall be required to deliver in all the names of the Recusants remaining about the Towne and their conditions and of what County they be It is ordered that the Gentlemen of the Innes of Court and Chancery shall give in their knowledge what Recusants are there Sir Iohn Stanhope That the Court may give in the names of the Recusants there and likewise by what Warrant they bee about the Towne and what publique charge of office any of these persons have Also what Priests and Jesuites are in any Prison in London for they are at liberty to goe sometimes five miles to a Masse Wednesday the 18. of February Anno 1628. A publique fast was kept by this House at Westminster where were three Sermons Thursday the 19. of February Anno 1628. Master Dawes One of the Customers called in to answer the point of Priviledge in taking Master Rolles goods being a member of this House saith hee tooke Master Rolles goods by vertue of a Commission under the great Seale and other Warrants remaining in the hands of Sir Iohn Elliott that he knew Master Rolles demanded his Priviledge but hee did understand his Priviledge did onely extend to his person not to his goods Master Dawes further saith he tooke those goods for such duties as were due in the time of King Iames and that the King sent for him on Sunday last and commanded him to make no other answer M. Carmarthen Another Customer called saith he knew Master Rolles to bee a Parliament man and that hee did not finde any Parliament man exempted in their Commission and if all the body of the House were in him he would not deliver the goods If he said he would not it was because he could not Master Wansford moveth that the delinquency of these men may be declined for the present and that wee may goe to the King by way of Remonstrance considering the matter from whence this doth arise if it were a single Priviledge it were easily determined M. Selden If there be any neare the King that doe mis-present our Actions let the curse light upon them not upon us and beleeve it is high time to right our selves and untill wee vindicate our selves in this it will bee in vaine to sit here Sir Nathaniel Rich moveth not to proceed in this untill it bee by a select Committee considered in respect the King himselfe gave order to stay those goods though the goods of a Parliament man Sir Iohn Elliott The heart bloud of the liberty of the Common-wealth receiveth life from the Priviledge of this House Resolved by Question that this shall be presently raken into consideration and being conceived to be a businesse of great consequence It is ordered that the House shall be dissolved into a Committee for more freedome of debate Master Herbert in the Chaire of this Committee Friday the 20. of February Anno 1628. A Petition of complaint of Conspiracy of a mans life by the Lord Deputy of Ireland and others to get the estate of the Petitioner to their owne use Which is referred to the Committee for course of Justice Sir Iohn Wolstenholme Another of the Customers called in saith hee was commanded from the King that the goods were taken for duties and no more that he sought not to farme the Customes and told the King being sent for to him that he was not willing to deale therein untill the Parliament had granted the same Master Selden conceiveth the case of these Customers doe differ in the degrees of their offences First for Master Wolstenholme what ever he saith here hee hath often confessed the goods were taken for Tonnage and Poundage so that hee brake the Priviledge in taking the goods so likewise in swearing one thing and the contrary plainly appearing upon proofe and his owne confession Master Dawes his case differeth onely in that Sir Iohn Wolstenholme is a Patternee and Dawes onely a Share Master Carmarthens case differeth in saying If all the Parliament were in him hee would not deliver his goods Ordered that Wolstenholmes case shall be first decided and the point is Whether by the Leafe Sir Iohn Wolstenholme having seized the goods hath interest or no or whether he be onely an accomptant to the King or not Master Glanvile Here is a summe of money advanced a Leafe granted for certaine yeares a certaine Rent received and though there be a Covenant to these men that if there be losse it shall be abated yet that cannot take away their interest the substance of the Affidavit made by the Customers in the Exchequer is That the goods of the Merchants seised by them and remaining in the Kings Store-house were seized onely for duties to the King mentioned in a Commission made under the Kings Signet and that themselves the Customers had no interest nor pretence of interest Saterday the 21. of February Anno 1628. A Petition by Master Thomas Symons in further complaint of the Customers and the two shillings six pence upon Currents granted to the Lord of Arundell which is referred to the Committee for Merchants Sir Robert Pye saith the Lord of Arundell hath delivered in his Patent to the King two moneths since At the Committee for Merchants Master Littleton argueth whether a Member of the House hath his goods priviledged upon a Prorogation being seised for the King All Priviledge is allowed for the benefit of the Common-wealth and the Parliament priviledge is above any other and the Parliament onely can decide priviledge of Parliament not any other Judge or Court That a man may not distraine for Rent in Parliament time but for all Arrerages after the Parliament he may distraine Hee is not to be impleaded in any action Personall nor his goods seized in the Exchequer A Record and Act of Parliament by Petition that because a servant of a Member of Parliament is in the Kings Royall protection that it
he passed over the matter so sleightly Consider the person of the man in question not onely suspected but charged as Arminians and one that is obnoxious It is ordered that the witnesses should bee sent for It was moved that Master Attorney should be sent for but they made a question whether they could send for him or no if he attended by Writ in the Lords House Thereupon it was ordered that intimation should be given him to be there on Monday next to give in satisfaction to the House for his not proceeding against Cozens having two Affidavits Saterday the 7. of February Anno 1628. Sir Dudley North informed the House that one Doctor Moore attending the Bishop of Winchester upon an occasion the Bishop told him that hee had often heard him preach before King Iames and that hee used to preach against Popery which hee said was well liked of then but now you must not doe so whereupon the Doctor said that if occasion did serve he would not spare to doe the like now to whom the Bishop further replyed then the times were not the same and therefore you must not Sir Robert Phillippes said by this you may guesse that this Bishop had a hand in setting up those Ceremonies in Durham and that he beares good will towards them labouring to make Durham and Winchester Synonymaes This reflects upon his Majestie as if his Majestie should not be pleased that men in their Preaching should refell and repell Popery Sir Iohn Elliott In this Lord is hatcht and contracted all the danger we feare for he hath procured those Pardons which may be the author of those new opinions And I doubt not but that his Majestie being informed thereof will leave him to the Justice of this House and I hope those exhalations will not raise jealousies betwixt his Majestie and us let the Doctor be sent for to justifie it which was ordered accordingly Monday the 9. of February Anno 1628. A Petition in complaint of the Postmasters Patent of London which is referred to a Committee Master Speaker delivered from Master Attorney a Narration in writing of his proceedings in Cozens businesse Sir Iohn Elliott reported from the Committee for examination of the Merchants businesse that the Committee finding Sheriffe Acton in prevarications and contradictions in his exammation which being conceived to be a contempt to this House desires he may be sent for to answer his contempt Master Goodwin saith that the Sheriffe acknowledgeth his errour and humbly desireth so much favour that hee may once againe be called before the Committees and if he give not full contentment by his answer he will referre himselfe to the Wisedome and Justice of this House Sir Walter Earle secondeth this motion so did Alderman Moulson Secretary Cooke Chancellour of the Dutony and some others but this abuse being declared to be so great and grosse and that hee had so many times given him to recollect himselfe and being so great an officer of so great a Citie he had all the favour that might be and yet rejected the same and carried himselfe in a very scornfull manner wherefore it is ordered hee shall be sent for to the House as a Delinquent to morrow morning Iones the Printer and his Counsell are called to argue the businesse of Master Montagues Episcopall confirmation First Quaere Whether the Exceptions be legall Secondly Whether the confirmation be good Thirdly and the last is the point now in hand To which the House enjoyned the Councell to speake The Councell propounded a third Question what will be the fruit or effect if in Law the Confirmation prove voide In this the Councell said it will not extend to make no Bishop upon the point of Confirmation onely which maketh him punishable if he execute any thing concerning the Bishopricks Sir Henry Martin saith the Exception making voide the Confirmation doth in Law worke also upon the Election and will make that voide also Doctor Steward saith the point of setting to the Advocates hand is but a matter of forme in the Court no matter of Law Sir Henry Martyn saith he will endeavour to give the House full satisfaction and will speake without relation to the Kings Right and Lawes of the Realme the Proclamation by the Common Law should not be at Bowe Church but at the Cathedrall Church of the Diocesse where the Bishop is to be elected and the Deane and Chapter of that Diocesse are to accept and not every one that will The Arguments are endlesse and to alter a course so long setled I conceive it is plaine the King and the Law have power to deprive him of his Bishopricke if hee deserve the same I thinke therefore it were good to decline this dispute for the present and to proceed to remove him which is allowed of Tuesday the 10. of February Anno 1628. A Bill for ordering the government and Plantation of the Summer Islands A Bill to restraine some abuses in Ministers and Magistrates Master Rolles complaineth that since his last complaint of the breach of the Liberties of this House his Ware-house hath beene lockt up by one Massey a Pursevant and that yesterday he was called forth from the Committee in the Exchequer Chamber but that since hee receaved a Letter from Master Attorney that it was a mistake the Subpaena was read but the Letter not suffered to be read Sir Robert Phillippes You see we are made the subjects of scorne and contempt I conceive this to be a Bone throwne by them that have drawne a cloud on our Religion to divert or interrupt us in the prosecution of them I desire the Messenger may be sent for and be examined by what procurement this Subpaena was taken forth for if we finde not forth those that throw these scornes upon us it is in vaine to sit here Master Chancellour of the Dutchie This proceedeth from some great errour for I will assure you this never proceeded from King nor Councell I therefore desire it may be searched to the bottome for be confident neither King nor State have cast in this as Bone M. Seldon This is not to bee reckoned an errour for questionlesse this is purposely to affront us and our owne Lenities is the cause of this It is ordered that Shenington the messenger that served the Subpoena be presently sent for and to examine the same and by whom the same was put in and they have power to send for persons or Records that may informe them And also they shall have power to enjoyne any whom they shall thinke fit to attend the House at such time as they shall thinke meet The priviledge of the Merchants that are Plaintifes here may be taken into consideration by this Committee concerning the information in the Starre-Chamber Sheriffe Acton called to the Barre as a delinquent upon his knees saith if hee hath offended or erred it is through want of memory and ignorance for he intended not the least dislike or distaste to any member
of this House Master Long moved that hee might bee sent to the Tower Sir Francis Seymor That he may be referred backe to the Committee to be examined if then hee deale not clearely this House may proceed to further punishment M. Selden I cannot remember when we did commit a Sheriffe of London but I remember when this House did commit both the Sheriffes of London to the Tower for an abuse of lesse nature onely for countenancing a Serjeant in an Arrest on a member of Parliament though they did acknowledge their faults at the Barre which this man hath not yet done the Serjeant sent to little ease the partie at whose suit he was arrested was committed to the Fleet and both the Sheriffes to the Tower M. Kirton I came into this House with as good a will to this man as any man for I was spoken to to stand for him as I came in and I promised to doe what favour I could But if he were my Brother he should to the Tower M. Littleton You see the affronts by Bookes by Preaching by Rumors by being daily served with Processe that are put upon us that we are become but a meere scarre-crow the neglect of our duty is the cause of this It is high time to remedy this or it is in vaine to sit here The Sheriffe is againe called to the Barre on his knees and is sentenced to the Tower Sir Benjamin Rudiardes There are divers Recantations and Submissions and Sentences remaining on Record in both Universities against Arminianisme that concerning any thing that may conduce to our end the Speakers letter may bee sent to the Vice-Chancellour for those Records which is ordered It is ordered that Worstenholme Dawes and Carmarthen are to be at the Barre upon Friday Wednesday the 11. of February Anno 1628. M. Selden reported concerning the Processe of the Merchants that Master Attorney gave order for the Processe and that Master Attornies man took for the same For the Bill it is a course by way of crime for those things which depend in Parliament complained here by the Merchants The Coppie of the Bill brought in and read That the Merchants did plot practise and combine against the peace of the Kingdome This being conceived to be a businesse incident to Tonnage and Poundage is ordered to be referred untill to morrow morning M. Selden That a report should be made to morrow of the complaints of the Merchants and the Information in the Exchequer may also be brought which was ordered It is ordered that in respect the Terme ends to morrow and the Assises to follow and divers members and Lawyers may be gone it is ordered none shall goe forth of Towne without leave of the House It is ordered the Speakers letter to be sent for Sir Edward Cooke At the Committee for Religion M. Walter delivered a Petition of the Booke-sellers and Printers in complaint of the restraint of Bookes written against Popery and Arminianisme and the contrary allowed of by the onely meanes of the Bishop of London and that divers of them have beene Pursevanted for Printing of orthodoxe Books and that the licensing of Books is now onely restrained by the Bishop of London and his Chaplaines One of the Printers said he tendred divers Books one called The Golden Spurre to the celestiall Race That Turner one of the Bishop of Londons Chaplaines said that if he would put out the point That a man may be certaine of his Salvation he would licence the same notwithstanding hee put out the same point yet hee could not get it licenced M. Selden The refusing the licensing of Bookes is no crime but the licensing of bad Bookes is a crime There is no Law to prevent the printing of any Booke in England onely a Decree in Starre-Chamber therefore that a man should be fyned imprisoned and his goods taken from him is a great Invasion on the liberty of the Subject hee moveth that a Law may be made upon this This is referred to a select Committee to be examined Master Shervile reported concerning the pardons that they have examined Doctor Sibthorpes and Cozens pardon Sibthorpes sollicited his owne pardon and said hee would get the Bishop of Winchester to get the Kings hand to it It is evident that the Bishop of Winchester got the Kings hand to Sibthorpes and Cozens pardons and also Montagues pardon was promised by him That Doctor Mannering sollicited his owne pardon and the Bishop of Winchester got the Kings hand to his pardon It is likewise said the Pardons were all drawne by Master Attorney before there was any Warrant Master Cromwell saith he had by relation from one Doctor Beard that Beard said that Doctor Alablaster had preached flat Popery at Pauls Crosse The Bishop of Winchester commanded him as he was his Diocessan that he should preach nothing to the contrary Sir Robert Phillippes saith one Doctor Marshall will relate as much said to him by the Bishop of Winchester as the Bishop said to Doctor Moore M. Kirton That Doctor Marshall and Doctor Beard may bee sent for That this Bishop though he hath leapt thorow many Bishoprickes yet he hath left Popery behinde him That Cozens frequenting the Printing-house hath caused the Booke of Common Prayer to be new printed and hath changed the word Minister into Priest and hath put out in another place the word Elect Thus Cozeus and his Lord goe hand in hand Sir Miles Fleetwood saith wee are to give Mountague his charge and by his Bookes chargeth him with 1. Schisme in errour of Doctrine 2. Faction in point of State 3. Matter of Aggravation Sir Walter Earle Qui color albus erat nunc est contrarius albo saith Doctor White hath sould his Orthodoxe bookes and bought Jesuiticall bookes And Moore that Bishop White may goe arme in arme with Mountague Ordered a select Committee to bee named to digest these things that have beene already agitated concerning the Innovation of our Religion the cause of the Innovation and the remedy Thursday the 12. of February Anno 1628. The Sheriffe of London upon his submission is released of his imprisonment in the Tower Sir Iohn Elliott made the report from the Committee in the Examination of the complaints of the Merchants and delivered in the Orders and Injunctions in the Exchequer At a great Committee for Tonnage and Poundage Master Shervile in the Chaire Master Walter delivered a Petition from Chambers Fawkes and Gilborne in complaint of an Information against them in the Starre-Chamber about Tonnage and Poundage and that by restraint of their goods they are like to be undone Sir Iohn Elliott The Merchants are not onely kept from their goods by the Customers but by a pretended Justice in a Court of Justice the Exchequer I conceive if the Judges of that Court had their understanding enlightened they would reforme the same and the Merchants thereby suddenly come to their goods Master Wansford conceiveth this a difficult way for us to goe M.
If these bee steppes to Church preferment God be mercifull to those Churches which shall fall under the government and feeding of such a Clergie Thus Master Pymme you see the issue of our good endeavour vanisht into smoake what should be the reasons I know not But I may well gnesse it comes by the like practises as were used in King Iames his time for then had we the like gracious Answers to Petitions of Religion the like Proclamations the like Declarations and like Commands to put Lawes in execution against Recusants and yet little done being prevented by secret directions and commands of some eminent Ministers of State which I am able to justifie by a letter under their hands which I have now about me And I wish that all such as have notice of any such private letters as have beene sent for the stay of execution of those Lawes would give this House knowledge thereof Sir Robert Phillippes If ever were a necessity of dealing plainly and freely this is the time there is an admission of Priests and Jesuites as if it were in Spaine or France This encrease of Papists is by connivance of persons in Authority Nine hundred and forty persons in houses of Religion being English Irish and Scots in the Netherlands maintained by the Papists of England And of this I shall deliver the particulars that wee may frame a Remonstrance to the King That unlesse there be some better performance of his Majesties so many Answers to so many Petitions our Religion will be past recovery M. Coriton That those Papists by Lawes or Acts of State may be removed from their offices which wee have just cause to suspect Master Selden moveth things may be debated in order and first for the releasing the Jesuites that were arraigned at Newgate whereof one was condemned they were ten in number which were Priests who had a Colledge here in London about Clarkenwell and these men could not attempt these Acts of boldnesse but that they have great countenancers Secretary Cooke That a Minister of State which is said to be himselfe having notice of these ten and this Colledge intended to be kept at Clarkenwell That it is plaine there was a place appointed for this Colledge and Orders and Reliques prepared This Minister made the King acquainted with it and I should not doe my duty if I should not declare how much his Majestie disliked it His Majestie referres it to the especiall care of the Lords of the Councell who examined the same sent these ten persons to Newgate and gave order to Master Attorney to prosecute the Law against them That this Colledge was first at Edmonton removed from thence to Camberwell and thence to Clarkenwell Ordered that all the Knights and Burgesses of the House shall to morrow morning declare their knowledge what Letters or other hindrances have beene for the staying of proceedings against Recusants M. Long. A Justice of Peace who is said to understand much in the businesse of the Colledge of Jesuites at Clarkenwell is sent for and examined saith hee by the appointment of Master Secretary Cooke apprehended those persons and tooke their Examinations and saith further that he heard they were delivered out of Newgate by order from Master Attorney That Master Middlemore a generall Sollicitour for the Priests hired this house for the Lord of Shrewsbury a Papist and that there are divers Bookes of Accompts of Receipts and Disbursements to the value of three hundred pounds per annum with divers Recusants names who allowed towards the maintenance of this Colledge and these bookes and papers are in the hands of Master Secretary Cooke Secretary Cooke saith hee cannot so amply declare the truth of the proceedings herein untill that he have leave from his Majesty One Crosse a Pursevant is to be examined in this who likewise saith he can discover divers stoppings of the execution of Lawes against Recusants Saterday the 14. of February Anno 1628. A complaint against the Lord Lambert a Baronet of Ireland and a member of this House who being a Collonel of Souldiers in Middleborow hath imposed 4 d. upon every Souldier towards his Officers charges and the Petitioner for refusing to pay was set in the stockes and after by the Lord Lamberi commanded to a Prison It is ordered that the Lord Lambert be sent for to answer this Sir Iohn Ipsley desireth leave to answer a complaint that is against him in the Lords House M. Selden That the use was and citeth a president that no Commoner could bee called to the Lords House but it will trench much to the disadvantage of the priviledge of this House and untill 18. Iacobi there was never president to the contrary that therefore this may be considered of by a select Committee Ordered that Sir Iohn Ipsley shall not have leave Master Chancellour of the Dutchie stiffely secondeth the motion of Master Selden Master Secretary Cooke I am as carefull to maintaine a good correspondencie with the Lords as any man but connivances in this kinde may overthrow the fundamentall Rights and Liberties of this House Let it be therefore seriously considered of for this not onely concerneth the Right of this House but the Liberty of the whole Kingdome or Common-wealth Ordered a speciall select Committee shall bee appointed to confider of this Master Chancellour of the Dutchie delivereth an answer from the Barons of the Exchequer as followeth Whereas the Honourable House of Commons by order this twelfth of this instant February have appointed that notice should be given to the Lord Treasurer Chancellour and Barons of the Exchequer for a Declaration made by Sir Iohn Wolstenholme Abraham Dawes and Richard Carmarden then in the said House of Commons of the goods that the Merchants brought into the Kings Store-house and laid up there for his Majesties use were detained onely as they conceive for the duty of Tonnage and Poundage and other summes comprised in the books of Rates which notice was given to the end the said Court of Exchequer might further proceed therein as to Justice should appertaine Now the Lord Treasurer Chancellour and Barons out of their due respect to that Honourable House and for their satisfaction doe signifie that by the orders and injunctions of the said Court of Exchequer they did not determine nor any wayes trench upon the right of Tonnage and Poundage and so they did declare openly in Court at the making of these orders Neither did they by the said Orders or Injunctions barre the owners of those goods to sue for the same in a lawfull course But whereas the said owners endeavoured to take those goods out of the Kings actuall possession by Writs or Plaints of Replevin which was no lawfull Action or course in the Kings case nor agreeable to his Regall prerogative Therefore the said Court of Exchequer being the Court for ordering the Kings Revenue did by those Orders and Injunctions stay those suites and did fully declare by the said Orders that the
might be high Treason to kill a Parliament man and the King answered which made it a Law And for the Judges to determine Priviledge of Parliament were to super-head and make void the Law for the Prorogation the Priviledge stands good untill the day of Prorogation notwithstanding a Proclamation of new Prorogation That the King is never so high in point of State as in the Parliament citeth the case of Sir Robert Howard in the High Commission All Priviledges unlesse in Felonie Treason or breach of the Peace Sir Robert Phillippes That you see how fast the Prerogative of the King doth trench upon the liberty of the Subject and how hardly recovered Citeth many Presidents wherein the goods of a Member of Parliament were priviledged from seizure in the Exchequer the 19. Eliz. It was resolved in Parliament that twenty dayes before and twenty dayes after was the time of Priviledge Chancellour of the Dutchie That in this debate we may tye our selves to point of Law and Authority not to points of Reason and conceiveth that no Priviledge lyeth against the King in point of his duties Sir Francis Seymor I desire it may be debated whether this care doth concerne the King or no for I conceive these Customers have not made good that there was any Right onely Art used to entitle the King I conceive it an high offence for any man to lay the scandall of every project upon the King Master Glanvile Here is a cunning Affidavit in the Exchequer to entitle the King A meere cunning project and an offence of an high nature to shelter their projects under the command of the Crowne Secretary Cooke The point in question is not the Right of the Subject but the Right of the Parliament Priviledge and that in the case of Master Rolls and this is only now in question Sir Iohn Strangwage I know no reason why wee should draw a question upon our selves which we need not especially between the King and us I conceive it plaine those Customers tooke those goods in their owne Right not in the Kings in this the Priviledge is plainly broken wherein it is easily determined Master Bankes In this case there is no interposing of the Kings Right and the King this Parliament hath declared as much that the Courts of Westminster doe grant twelve dayes priviledge to any man to informe his Councell much more the Courts of Parliament are to have their priviledge The Kings command cannot extend to authorize any man to break the Priviledge no more then it will warrant an entry upon any mans Land without processe of Law Master Sollicitour If the King have no Right how can he make a Leafe then this pretended interest of the Customers must bee void and therefore their goods must be taken not in their owne Right but in the Right of the King M. Selden If there were any Right the pretended Right is in the Subject 1. Whether Priviledge in goods 2. Whether the Right were in the Customer onely 3. Whether Priviledge against the King If the Lords have no Priviledge of Parliament for their goods they have then no Priviledge at all for they are priviledged in their persons out of Parliament For the point of Interest it is plaine for no kinde of Covenant can alter Interest and questionlesse had the case in the Exchequer appeared to the Barons as it doth to us they would never have proceeded as they did if our goods may be seized into the Exchequer bee it right or wrong we had then as good have nothing Sir Nathaniel Rich. It was recorded the last Session in the Lords House and citeth other Presidents in this House that a servant of a member of Parliament ought to have priviledge in his goods decided by Question that a Parliament man ought to have priviledge of his goods Master Noye saith that these Customers had neither Commission nor command to seize therefore without doubt we may proceed safely to other Questions that the Priviledge is broken by the Customers without any relation to any Commission or command of the King Secretary Cooke saith it is in the Commission to seize but the Commission being read it is not found to bee there Chancellour of the Dutchie saith Master Dawes mentioned that hee seized those by vertue of a Commission and other Warrants remaining in the hands of Sir Iohn Elliott that therefore these Warrants may be seene whether there be not command to seize the goods Sir Nathaniel Rich. This dayes debate much rejoyceth me especially the motion made by Master Noye whereby it is plaine wee have a way open to goe to the Question without relation to the Kings Commission or command and desires it in respect there appeares nothing before us that doth incumber the Question Chancellour of the Dutchie againe desires these Warrants may bee looked into before wee proceed to the Question M. Kirtor Because this Honourable Gentleman presseth this so farre let it appeare with what judgement this House hath proceeded M. Glanvile I consent these Warrants bee sent for and read but withall if any thing arise that may produce any thing of ill consequence let it bee considered from whence it comes The Privy Counsellours are contented with this motion The Warrants being sent for and read it is plaine there is no Warrant to seize M. Kirton If now there be any thing of doubt I desire those Honourable persons to make their objections Chancellour of the Dutchie I rejoyce when I can goe to the Court able to justifie your proceedings I confesse I see nothing now but that we may easily proceed to the Question Master Secretary Cooke saith as much Master Hawkewell argueth against Priviledge in time of Prorogation Master Noye saith hee had no doubt but Priviledge was in force in time of Prorogation untill he heard this Argument of Master Hawkwell and saith hee hath heard nothing from him yet that doth alter his opinion and citeth a President wherein the Lords House hath this very Prorogation adjudged the Priviledge Master Hackwell saith hee is glad to heare it so and he is now of the same opinion Decided by Question that Master Rolles ought to have Priviledge of Parliament for his goods seized 30. of October 35. Iacobi and all since This Committee is adjourn'd untill Monday and the Customers are to attend Monday the 23. of February Anno 1628. Sir Humphrey May. I will never cease to give you the best advice I can We all agree A word is given We have wine and oyle before us If you goe to punish Delinquents there is vineger in the wound thinke of some course to have restitution Sir Iohn Elliott The Question is whether we shall goe to the restitution or to the point of delinquency of breach of Parliament and other feares I meet with this both here and else-where take heed you fall not upon a rocke I am confident that this will be some what difficult were it not for the justice and goodnesse of the King
suppresse both Popery and Arminianisme The professour of the one being open enemies and maintainers of the others subtile and most dangerous undermyners of the Religion of Almighty God established in your Realme and Dominions The truth of which our holy Religion or any part thereof as being sufficiently knowne and generally received here of all the members of our Church except of some Schismaticall persons which have of late yeares taken the boldnesse to broach their contrary corrupt opinions we desire should not be called into doubt or question but howsoever it hath pleased your Majestie to our exceeding great comfort by many Testimonies to declare your owne constant resolution to maintaine the said Religion yet how your gratious purposes are therein crost and into what a miserable condition your whole Kingdome is likely by that meanes to be reduced we shall earnestly endeavour as that which doth nearely concerne the safety and prosperity of your Majesty and people in such sort disordered that the ruine thereby threatned to both may by Gods blessings be prevented being most heartily sorry that these occasions are offered which did thus hinder our occasions in proceeding and therefore aswell for the dignity and necessity of the matter as for that we receive it to be a most-speedy and effectuall way by uniting our hearts and endeavours to dispatch all other businesses of importance particularly those which may seeme more immediately to respect your Majesties profit We pray that our resolutions of preferring this businesse before all other may be acceptable to your Majestie To whom both in the matter and the manner of our proceedings we desire to give all possible satisfaction The Kings Answer to the Declaration of the House of Commons the third of February Ann. 1628. Gentlemen This Answer being somewhat long may by reason require some time to reply unto it since as most of you cannot but judge that this giveth no satisfaction therefore I shall give you some short notes upon it I cannot thinke that whereas you alleadge the Bill of Tonnage and Poundage was brought in against the priviledge of your House that you will offer to take so much priviledge from every one of your members as not to allow them the liberty to bring in any Bill whatsoever although it be in your power when it is brought in to do with it what you thinke good And I cannot imagine your comming together onely by my power and to treat of things that I propound unto you can deny me that prerogative to commend or offer my Bill unto you Though in this particular I must confesse that this Bill was not to have bin offered unto you in my name as that member in your House can beare me witnesse As for the cause of delay in my businesse being Religion here is none of you shall have a greater care for the true preservation of it then my selfe which since it is confessed by your Answer you must either thinke I want power which cannot be or that I am very ill counselled if it be in so much danger as you affirme Though I may say much of this point I will say no more but for all this I shall not stop my eares to you upon this subject so that in forme and matter you transgresse not your limits As for Tonnage and Poundage I doe not so much desire it out of greedinesse of the thing being perswaded you will make no great stop in it when once you take it in hand as out of desire to put an end to these questions that arise betweene Me and some of my Subjects thinking it a strange thing if you should give eare to these complaints and not to take the sure and speediest way to decide them Besides I must thinke it strange that this businesse of Religion should be onely a hinderer of my affaires whereas I am certainly informed all other things goe according to their ordinary course therefore I must still be instant with you that you proceed with Tonnage and Poundage with all diligence not looking to be derned in so just a desire And you must not thinke it strange if I finde you flacke I give you such farther quickning as I shall finde cause Tuesday the 3. of February Anno 1628. Secretary Cooke reported that himselfe and the rest of 〈◊〉 Committee attended his Majesty upon Monday And he said for my part I have used all diligence to 〈◊〉 all the commaunds of my Master and of this House And I find that some exceptions have beene taken at some words by me used when I delivered the Bill of Tonnage and Poundage indeed I used many Arguments in speaking of his Maiesty I said it much concerned him and that his Majesty much desired it but this was mistaken as if his Majesty had commanded it and I required it in his name which I did not intend but to avoid dispute I said not this was an ordinary Revenue but that this Tonnage and Poundage was a meanes to enable his Majestie to set his Fleet to Sea After this Apologie he read his Majesties Answer to the Petition of the Lower House Sir Iohn Elliott Master Speaker I confesse this hath given great satisfaction for our present desires and future hopes and however I finde the mis-interpretation of some and the danger of our Religion yet I finde his Majesties eares open and that if those things be thus as we see that then he is not rightly counselled I am confident we shall render his Majesty an accompt of what he expects But Sir I apprehend a difference betweene his Majesties expression and the expression of his Ministers For Sir that Bill was tendered here in his Majesties name and now we finde that his Majesty disavowes it that he did it not what wrong is this done to his Majesty and to this House to presse things in his Majesties name to the prejudice and distraction of us all I thinke him not worthy to sit in this House Master Speaker This Honourable Person did explaine himselfe that he did not presse it in his Majesties name but onely commended it to your consideration Secretary Cooke I said that in regard of the difference betweene his Majestie and his Subjects my desire was to accommodate it Sir Humphrey May. If you be too quicke to except against the Ministers of his Majesty that serves his houshold it will discourage and stoppe our mouthes whose Service you daily commend Wednesday the 4. of February Anno 1628. M. Kirton The two Bishops named are the maine and great Roots Let us enquire what men they have preferred M. Coriton The Declaration now read came from his Majestie but it is by advise of his Ministers and sure they have not advised the right way That no dispute of Preaching must be one way or other this is to suppresse the truth and yet the contrary professors of it are preferred in the Church to the griefe of all good men Sir Walter Earle Mountague is a principall disturber
of the Church He was a Batchelour of Divinity I would know how hee came to be a Bishop two men are named in the last Remonstrance that are Privie Counsellours and it is very probable that these Ecclesiasticall Officers did give that advice to his Majestie Sir Humphrey May. I will let you know what I am privy unto It is true those two were named in the Remonstrance This point was pressed before the King and his Councell The King doth utterly dislike those Novellours then were these Bishops with teares in their eyes present and protested they hated those opinions and the Questions and they renounced them upon their knees Sir Iames Parrat It is said that these two Bishops were before the Councell and with teares did disclaime the opinions but we see their facts The Bishop of London Doctor Land did entertaine for his Chaplaine in his house one that did dispute the Arminian points who said what Arminians hold and write this I will maintaine and justifie upon my oath It was ordered that the complaint against Master Mountague should be taken into consideration and that a Committee should make search after the pardon A Petition was preferred against Cozens Master Sherland made report from the Committee about the search for the Pardons that they found Pardons sealed one to Bishop Mountague one to Cozens one to Doctor Mannering and one to Doctor Sibthorpes Sir Robert Phillippes If ever there came here businesse of like consequence I have lost my memory if ever King of England was abused in his mercy it is our King what persons are pardoned the greatest enemies to the Church and State that ever was standing under the judgement of Parliament they are pardoned betweene Parliaments If every man be not warned to search this into the bottome I would we might never regard any thing Yee see an offendor complained of and in stead of punishment Grace the goodnesse of our King is thus abused Let a select Committee consider of it and let Master Attorney certifie what is done and by whom and I hope we shall find those originall Instruments who have mis-led his Majestie It was ordered that a sub-Committee should have power to send for the Records and the Privy Seale and other Instruments belonging to the Pardons and to send for the parties and also to send to Master Attorney about his knowledge by whose signification the Pardons were obtained which was done accordingly Sir Robert Phillippes made report that we went to Master Attorney and found him in the Starre-Chamber and acquainted him with the Message He answered that he received a command from his Majestie in the last long Vacation presently after the end of the last Session to draw a Pardon and delaying it till Michaelmas Terme he said that he met with the Bishop of Chichester who intimated unto him his Majesties favour and requested him to draw his Pardon Master Attorney said he desired him to advise whither it would be any advantage to him or no after he met with a great Lord and a Privy Counsellour the Earle of Dorset who asked him if the Pardon for the Bishop of Chichester were drawne and desired him to dispatch it After this he said the Lord Carlton sent to him a warrant under the Kings hand to command him to draw the Pardon which he did and sent it to the Bishop of Winchester who interlined it And whereas the Pardon was but for one he put in foure Montague Cozens Sibthorpe Mannering Thursday the 5. of February Anno 1628. Secretary Cooke brought the Kings Answer to the House concerning the Fast viz. That it was his Majesties pleasure that the Fast should be kept by both Houses of Parliament on the eighteenth day of this instant February and for the whole Kingdome the 20. of March Friday the 6. of February Anno 1628. One Witherington was petitioned against who had formerly beene examined before the Lords of the Councell for depraving our Religion oftentimes calling the Protestants Heretiques wishing that an hundred of their throats were cut And to one that was a Papist and lately turned to our Religion he said he would be hanged and otherwise disgraced him It was ordered that he should be sent for The House being informed about two dayes agoe that a little before Cozens obtained his Pardon he was accused to Master Attorney by two witnesses for speaking words against the King and sent to Master Attorney about it Sir Robert Phillippes and others were appointed to examine this businesse whereupon report was made to the House by Sir Robert Phillippes as followeth Sir Robert Phillippes My part is to give accompt about the affidavits against Cozens and the diversion of the cause against him in the Starre-Chamber Master Attorney said that one Master Heath of Graies Inne came to him about Michaelmas Terme and affirmed that Cozens in a publique meeting said that the King had nothing to doe to be Head of the Church and that he had no more power to excommunicate then his servant that rubbed his horses heeles the Attorney acquainted his Majestie with it but his Majestie was not willing to beleeve that any man would dare say so much but that the compliant did arise from malice but hee charged the Attorney to make a carefull disquilition of it and if it were strongly proved that then hee should repaire to his Majestie Master Attorney did againe enquire after this businesse and said to Master Heath the matter is found and very improbable there is some mistake in it hereupon there were two Affidavits taken and they did sweare it point blancke Yet Master Attorney sent his Letters to Master Deane and others that were present when the words were spoken to require them to certifie whether the words were spoken or no upon that Certificate there was some variance about the words and thereby the businesse was lessened and being demanded if he had directions from any to desist he said no But casually he met with the Bishop of Winchester and hee told him of the complaint The Bishop said it will be nothing For King one of them that made the Affidavit is but a baggage fellow Sir Iohn Elliott It was our honour and duty not to passe these things over too sleightly I finde the Kings Honour and his Right is in question which we are all sworne to If I mistake not it is high Treason and that proved upon oath and presented to the Attorney His Majestie was acquainted with it who gave command to examine it and the Attorney was to certifie his Majestie In ordinary Felonies the Law doth not allow oathes contrary to the proceedings for the King here against two Affidavits a Letter and a Certificate must dath them all The Attorney informed the Bishop of Winchester with it who said that hee heard of such a complaint against Iacke Cozens but it was upon malice Let the persons that made these affidavits be sent for and let Master Attorney be sent for to answer why