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A39566 Christianismus redivivus Christndom both un-christ'ned and new-christ'ned, or, that good old way of dipping and in-churching of men and women after faith and repentance professed, commonly (but not properly) called Anabaptism, vindicated ... : in five or six several systems containing a general answer ... : not onely a publick disputation for infant baptism managed by many ministers before thousands of people against this author ... : but also Mr. Baxters Scripture proofs are proved Scriptureless ... / by Samuel Fisher ... Fisher, Samuel, 1605-1665.; Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691. 1655 (1655) Wing F1049; ESTC R40901 968,208 646

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represent it yet so little is the quantity that you use not of water onely in the one but of bread and wine also in the other ordinarily nor so much as to take off the heart from the spiritual to the corporal thing content with all in my heart that it be not too much on this hand provided that it be not too litle one the other so but that it may reach to resemble the things signified for the whole vertue of baptism lying in signification per ablutionem i. e. per submersionem per sepelitionem in aquâ and the vertue of the supper much what in signification per recreationem per representationem plenitudinis non multum interest quantum quisque abluatur modo obruatur submergatur sepeliatur nec quantum quisque comedat modo comedendo repleatur To conclude Sirs you are too short in that point of the outward element in the supper as well as bapti●m in the Church of Corinth there was so much bread and wine that if some hungred others were drunken as neither of these should have been so the latter could not have been but that the use then was to have more abundance of the elements then you have in your parish passeovers wherein the people are past over with so poor a pittance that all may in likelihood be hungry enough but none at all very easily drunken such niggardly snips and sups not at Rome onely where the Priests expounding Christ as speaking to themselves when of the wine saying drink ye all this and not to the people saying drink ye all of this do impropriate the liquor wholly to themselves but in England also do the priests supp I should say dine for it is done at noon dayes with them their poor patient dependant people at the Lords table There 's one thing among Mr. Baxters bedrow which I had almost quite past over without any answer which if I had you would have said it is like I willingly forgat it Christ told Peter saith he that the washing of his feet was enough to clense all Mr. Blake gives us a touch here too through the persons of a popish party p. 10. of Peters mind saith he not to be washed in one part onely which say some from the same place also viz. Iohn 13.9.10 is as sufficient as the washof the whole As if that Scripture even therefore because it speaks of washing doth speak of this ordinance of baptism either it doth Sirs in your opinion or it doth not if not to what purpose do you quibble upon it here if you say it doth I much marvel why you think so but more if in earnest you argue from it that a man need be baptized but in part onely sith you all confesse practically that the face and head but not the feet are the subject of baptism yea verily you had as good have said Pilate took water and washed his hands before the multitude therefore the ordinance of baptism is no total dipping for the story of Christs washing Peters feet speaks no more of the ordinance of baptism then the other does yea it is most evident that the washing of the disciples feet was clear to another end and use viz. not to baptize them much lesse to shew how they should baptize others but meerly to teach them humility one toward another and to condescend to the lowest offices that could be for loves sake to each other this Christ expressed himself to be the direct meaning of what he did v. 12.13.14.15 c. after he had washed their feet he saies to them know you what I have done to you you call me Lord and master you say well so I am if I your Lord and Master have washed your feet you also ought to wash one anothers feet for I have given you an example that ye should do as I have done unto you this was Christs end therefore to learn them humility which was done as well in washing their feet onely as all the body yea the feet only indeed because the feet are the viler parts of the body for us to stoop to wash whereby to expresse our humility each to other in which respect and no other it is that when Peter yet ignorant ●o what Christ was about to do cryed out Lord my hands also and my head Christ replies that he that is washed i. e. not in Baptism but in this washing he was then about need not more i. e. ad rem substratam then to wash his feet but is clean every whit i. e. as much as he need be to this intent for which I now am washing you besides that the washing of the feet only is not a sufficient washing to denominate a man baptized according to Christs ordinance is evident by the Eunuch that went into the water and so was washed in his feet and yet not baptized for all that according to Christs will till Philip had baptiz'd or dipt him there it is a sign you are put hard to your shifts when you use such impertinencies to help you as these Rantist Impertinency I think all is impertenency with you still though never so solid that is brought in disproof of your idol dipping but what say you I trow to those two last unanswerable Arguments of Mr. Cook against totall dipping viz. that it is against both the sixth and seventh Argument both which Arguments Mr. Baxter also takes after him and ●angs you about with them a little better then Mr. Cook did and laces your sides so handsomely therewith that I believe you selves will be all sick of Mr. Baxter and your cause scarce be whole of those two Gashes he hath thereby given it salve it over as long as you will for he proves it plain that your plunging practise is no better then flat Murther and Adultery Baptist. I say these are knocking Arguments indeed if they be but as solid as they shew for but for all that let us see a little for our money before we part with it and hear what their Arguments are in words at length and not in figures if it chance to prove as you say they say and as they say indeed in this particular viz. that it is Murther and Adultery to dip as we do I assure you in the word of a Minister and a Christian that hopes to be saved in the way of innocency as well as your selves that dipping as it is no idol of mine for I adore it no otherwise then I ought to do every ordinance of our onely King Priest and Prophet Christ Jesus for his sake that ordained it so it shall never be adored so much as to be owned more by me but be abhorred rather with deeper detestation then I dispense it with affection to this houre but I believe that their proof will fall wondrous short of so high a charge as they venture to charge us with be pleased therefore since you mention it in gross to repeat their Arguments more at large
dislike of others so 2. Dislike of their own places is another cause of the Heresies of the Clergy the foot will be the hand or not of the body the hand will be the head or else will be no body at all the Servant regarding neither the Councell nor the command nor the Example of his Master who came not to minister to but to minister and gave in charge that there should be no dominion among his disdiples and bade them that meant to be greatest to be last and least would needs be above his Master and he that was sent greater then he that sent him and by this he entred exceedingly into error the Minister could not indure to be the foot to have the whole body of the Church stand above himself though sure if he were as a king is Major singulis yet he is Minor omnibus and must stoop to the vote of the congregation he could not bear it to be the hand onely to execute what the head directed in but he must be the ●ead to give laws and ordinances of his own Corah could not be content with his place but sought the Priests Office the CCClergy could not be contented with such Shepheardship as the Gospel had at first but they must needs be made Priests after that more pompous way of the law nor to be Priests onely in sensu diviso from all the Saints but they must seek the High Priests office too and have Arch-Patriachs Arch-Bishops Lord Bishops c. they could not brook it to be amonst the Saints as them that serve but they must be as they that sit at meat having all others to serve them and in no mean manner neither have some of their Holinesses been served when Kings and Emperours have stood bare before them bare foot at their doo●s as Henry the fourth Emperour and his wife and son did at Pope Adrians gate before they were admitted to the speech of him and not onely so but held their stirrups also and lay down to have their necks trod upon by him as Frederick Barbarossa did to Pope Gregory saying non tibi sed Petro and was answered again by the proud Prelate et mihi et Petro in a word have held it honour enough to kiss his feet In the state Absoloms ambition O that I were a Iudge was the cause of his rebellion and the same kind of aspiring mind after no lesse then all power both in heaven and earth Church and State too made the Clergy when time best served their ambitious turn to rebell so abominably against all civil power as not onely to exempt themselves fully from the jurisdiction of Temporal Princes but most wickedly to subjugate all civil power to such depency on them and their Lord God the Pope that when they have not been slaves to the Clergies Imperious will and carnal concernments he hath took upon him to act according to that power he claimes most blasphemously saying by me Kings raign to force them to surrender their crownes and sacrifice their lives too to his lust witnesse the case of King Iohn here in England and in scorn to kick off the crowns of Emperours with his feet and in testimony of their taking all civill power as well as spiritual to themselves Eugenius the second took on him within the Roman territory the authority of creating Earls Dukes ●nd Knights as the Exarchate had done before him Helin p. 182. also Innocent the third held a councel in Rome in which it was enacted that the Pope should have the correction of all Christian Princes and that no Emperour should be acknowledged till he had sworn obedience unto him Helin p. 184. upon the same ambitious account Pope Boniface the eight by a general bull exempted the Clergy from all taxes and subsidies to Temporal Princes whereupon Edward the first put the Clergy out of the protection of him and his laws by which cou●se the Popes bull left roaring here in England He. G. p. 184. the same Boniface boasted one day in his pontifical attire with the keyes of the Kingdom of heaven in his hand that all spiritual power was committed to him and the next day in the Robes of an Emperour with a naked sword born before him that all civill power was committed to him also ecce duo gladii hic yea after the translation of the E●pire from France to Germany the Popes began to make open protestation that the Pontifical dignity was rather to give laws to the Emperours then to receive any from them Helin G. p. 188. and as in the state ambition so in the Church the desire of a change from Membership to Mastership from Servantship to Lordship over the true Clergy is the true cause of the Clergies Heresie and Schism for being raised by earthly power and greatnesse they forgot the salvation of souls sanctity of life and the commandements of God propgation of Religion charity toward men and to raise armes to make warre against Christians to invent new devises for getting money to prophane sacred things for their own end to enrich their kindred and children was their onely study saith Helin out of G●iciardine Geog. p. 188. 3. Gloriae secularis aucupium a desire to be somebody Iudas Thudas Simon Magus are Instances of it which Simon sin'd and erred so grossely out of his vain glorious desire to be lookt upon as some great one as to offer to buy the gift of the holy spirit for money of which sin and error of Simon no men under heaven are more guilty then the CCClergy for as they endeavour to to get gifts and endowments for the honour office of ministry in the Church by laying out money at Schooles and purchasing to themselves degrees as if the spirit must undoubtedly gift men for the Ministry that mean to bestow themselves that way when once they are train'd up to be Masters of Arts in the university so to say nothing how they pay for their ordination and actual admission into the function it self when so fitted though themselves call it Simony or the sin of Simon to buy spiritual livings these with them we see are the gifts of the holy spirit yet such is their unsatiable greedinesse after glory and greatnesse in the world that as hateful a sin as Simony seems to be among them few of their spiritual gifts shall be lost for lack of buying if a fee be lookt for yea how few are dispens●t f●eely and fairly from the spirit and not rathet from the flesh i. e. some base corrupt rotten fleshly respect and selfish end or other in the spiritual patrones how little or no spiritual preferment is there to bigger benefices Bishopricks or what ever ecclesiasticall dignity in any almost of the three Hierachies but it s either bruitishly bought for money or basely beg'd for some trencher service or bestow'd on men qua befriended more then qua befitted with Gospel spirits for Gospel service or in some sinister way of