olde testament the Prince was otherwise than in the foresayde respects inferiour to the Priest and people It remaineth sayth he that we proue the king of the Hebrue nation to haue ben lesse than his nation and his Bishop VVho shall bee a better iudge in this cause than euen God himselfe For he entreating of sacrifices for sinne committed by ignorance distinguisheth foure sortes of men For either the anoynted priest sinneth or the people or the Prince or the priuate person Of these foure sortes the anoynted Prieste helde the firste place the people of Israell the seconde place the Prince the third place the priuate man the last place If the Prieste that is anoynted shall haue sinned making the people to offende he shall offer for his sinne an vnspotted ' Bullocke without blemishe vnto the Lorde But if all the people of Israell shall haue doone of ignorance that whiche is contrarie to the commaundement of the Lorde and shall afterwarde vnderstande their sinne the people shall offer a Bullocke for their sinne If the Prince shall haue sinned and among many thinges shall doe ought by ignorance that is forbidden by the Lawe of the Lorde and shall afterwarde vnderstande his sinne he shall offer for an offering to the Lorde from among the she Goates an he Goate vnspotted But if any soule of the people of the lande shall haue sinned through ignorance hee shall offer a shee Goate vnspotted Loe foure sacrifices whereof the moste worthy is the Bullocke whiche is offered as well for the Prieste as for all the people The hee Goate is but of the nexte worthynesse the which the King offered Therefore euen as the Prince is prefered before the priuate man so al the people is preferred before the Prince but the anoynted Prieste is preferred before them both This argument is taken from the Sacrifices for sinnes in the olde Testament and is nothing pertayning to gouernment and therfore can infer no necessarie but wrested conclusion therevnto Nowe as this matter is nothing to the present purpose so his argumentes thereon argue the greater follie the more nicely he standeth on them He driueth thē to infer a superioritie by two reasons the one of the more worthy Sacrifice the other of the order placing the discription of these Sacrifices Of the Sacrifice he reasoneth on the more worthy beast as thus He that offered the more worthy beast was the more worthy in authoritie But the highe Prieste and the people offered a more worthe beaste than dyd the Prince Ergo the highe Priest and the people were more worthy in authoritie than the Prince The Maior he taketh for graunted after his manner ▪ The Minor he proueth thus A Bullocke is a more worthie beast than a Goate But the highe Priest and the people offered a Bullocke the Prince but a Goate Ergo they offered a more worthie beaste I aunswere to this worthy if not rather beastly argument made from a Bullocke as I remember once a Papiste sayde in Cambridge of a righte worthie Doctor of hys owne Popishe Church his name quoth he is Doctor Bullocke but per contractionem it maye be Doctor Blocke and so this is a Bullockishe argument but per contractionem it is a very blockishe argument and farre more fitte for Doctour Bullock thā for Doctor Sanders to haue made except that he be made Bullatus Doctor I graunt there was great differences to be obserued in the thinges offered howe beit the worthynesse of the Sacrifice laye not in the things offered but euery Sacrifice had this or that kynd of matter appointed to be offered as the wisdome of God thoughte fittest to expresse the nature of that sinne or propitiation whereof it was a Sacrifice A Lyon is counted a more worthy beast than a Bullocke and yet was it counted an vncleane beast In the second chapter going before this alledged God saith of flower and Corne offered which is not so worthy a thing as is a beast it is the most holy of the offerings of the Lorde made by fire In the thirde Chapter he saithe if he offer a Lambe for his oblation and afterwarde he sayth and if his offerings be a Goate A Goate is a more worthy beast than Lambe But what shall we conclude hereon for the more worthynesse of the Persons authoritie that offered all these and other more different things But nowe if a Bullocke be the moste worthy beast dyd not many Kings many times offer many Bullockes Did not also the high Priests offer other things for themselues besides bullockes in the. 8. chapter of Leuit. a bullocke and ◅ ram was offered for Aaron and his sonnes but here the bullocke is still placed before the ram as a more worthie beast by maister Saunders reason But in the ninth chapter he sayth And in the. 8. daye Moyses called Aaron and his sonnes and the elders of Israel and then he said to Aaron take thee a yong calfe for a sinne offering and a ram for a burnte offering both without blemishe and bring them before the Lorde and vnto the Children of Israel saying take ye an hee Goate for a sinne offering and a Calfe and a Lambe both of a yeare olde without blemishe for a burnt offering also a Bullocke and a ram for a peace offering here is a yong calfe preferred before a bullocke for the Priests sin offering and a ram before a Calfe yea a bullocke and a ram for the people and but a yong calfe and a ram for the high Priest and so the people by this reason shoulde be more worthie than the high Priest and equall at the least they are made euen in this place that M. Saunders so narrowly examineth for the Priest and the people offer a bullocke both of them Now if the dignitie of the beast sacrificed will not inferre the dignitie of the man offering the sacrifice yet wil master Saunders enforce his argument furder from the dignitie of the place in the order of naming eche persons sacrifyce as thus He that is former placed is former in dignitie and hee that is placed later is inferior in dignitie But the priest annointed held the first place the people of Israel the second place the Prince the thirde place the priuate man the last place Ergo the Prince is inferior in dignitie to the Priest and the people and onely superior to the priuate man. I answere this is as meane if not a worser argumente than the other from the former place in recitall to the former place in dignitie Maister Saunders owne order of his booke in this selfe same treatise confuteth himselfe In hys firste booke he examineth the peoples authoritie In his seconde booke the Princes authoritie in his thirde booke the Priests authoritie shall wee v◅gehim herevpon that he ment to giue the people superior authoritie to Princes and Princes superior authoritie vnto Priests he will saye be ment it not
religion Secondly that they ought to doe this with an especiall regards and care Thirdely they perceyue and rightly vnderstande that it is Gods will they shoulde so doe Now since that this by master Stapletons déepe silence is agréed vpon betwixt the Bishop and him I make hereon this argument To order and set forth Gods true religion with especiall regarde and care is the Princes duetie But the only sort of gouernment that the Quéenes Maiestie doth chalenge and take vpon hiâ—… in ecclesiasticall causes is to order and set forth Gods true Religion with an especiall regarde and care Ergo Prinâ—… ought to take vpon them such gouernment as the Quéenes Maiestie doth claime and take vpon hir in ecclesiasticall causes And thus is the Bishops antecedent directly proued and so consequently the principall matter of M. Feck issue Nowe as the former part being the generall assertion to all the ensamples following is no whitte impeached by any aunswere of master Stap. to it but by silence whiche with him is an argument of confession graunted so like a very Counterblaster in déed he blusâ—…reth and puffeth at the seconde part as though he would all to blast it Moses sayth the Bishop was supreme gouernour ouer Gods people and was not chief priest or Bishop for that was Aaron Here master Stapleton denyeth not Moses to be the supreme gouernour but that he was not chiefe priest or Bishop he vtterly gainsayeth it It is an vntruth sayth he in his score for Moses was the chiefe priest as shall be prooued Here is a flat promise of proufe but I feare me it wil neuer be perfourmed neyther doth master Stapleton here go about the perfourmance of it And therefore the Bishops denial of Moses to be the chiefe Priest must stand for a truth till by prouing Moses to be the chiefe Priest he haue proued it to be an vntruth And in the meane time his promise must stande but for a crake as also his prowde entraâ—…nte into his Chapter That the Scripture by the Bishop alleaged reacheth nothing home but rather infringeth and plainely marreth the Bishoppes purpose and fullye standeth on our syde sayeth this student so greatly hath arrogancie sotted him He fareth as did the Souldiour who when his aduersarie had manye tymes in wrastling hurled him downe in the sighte of euerie stander by yet woulde hée neuer confesse that hée had anye fall yea most arrogantlye â–ª he styll affyrmed that hée had â—…ast the other And euen so playeth this student for this of wrastling is one of his common similitudes he contendeth to wrastle with the Bishoppe whiche is in verys déede as hée sayeth in this Chapter Impar congressus Achâ—…lls Troilus An vneuen matche betweene Troylus and Achilles What a number of â—…oule falles hée hath had yea howe hée hath béene ouerturned in hys â—…wne trippes is apparaunt to euery Readers eyes and goe no further but euen to hys last Chapter And yet sée howe hée craketh that all the Byshoppes allegations marre hys owne cause and fully stande on hys syde Where contraryewyse they haue drie beaten him backe bellie side and all And as hée thus fondely maketh vaunt of his former victorie â—…o I doubt nothing sayth he it will fare with his examples Well sayd of a student like an other Gawin he doubteth nothing But sée a sodaine qualme of hys inconstancie for euen streyght wayes after he hath cryed out all comes to shorâ—… he sayth but here am I shrewedly â—…ncombred and in a great doubt what to doe Whie master Stapleton are ye now so soone in a great doubt and right nowe as doeth bolde Bayarde doubted nothing and haue before alreadie without any stammering thereat clapped downe your marginall note for a full resolute aunswere that Moyses was the chiefe Priest and nowe doubt ye what to answere But master Stapleton hath so many weapons that he is shrewdly encombred with them as it were another armed Golias and yet one smal poebble stone will soone ease him of this encombrance He telles vs he hath so many aunsweres that he doubteth with which he should beginne for I could sayth he make a short but a true aunswere that these ensamples are fully aunswered alreadie by master D. Harding and master Dorman In déede master Stapleton this were a short aunswers but I sée your selfe feare as ye sayde before it woulde come to short and not reache home to the matter Yet say you if ye shoulde referre the Reader thither to his and your great ease it should be to the sparing not only of penne ynke and paper but of the time also which of all thinges is most precious It séemeth master Stapleton ye are a man of déepe casting these are good considerations of penne ynke paper and tyme. But whie followe ye not your owne councell whiche if ye had obserued and left out so many impertinent vagaries and other your trifling common places ye had saued more paper penne ynke and tyme by thrée halues than ye haue done And here as séeming full resolued to follow this aduise ye clappe downe another marginall note All master Hornes examples out of the olde Testament aunswered alreadie by master Doctour Harding and master Dorman Here sayth he is a shorte but a true aunswere To this shorte aunswere I aunswere againe All M. Doctor Hardings and M. Dormans answeres confuted alreadie by the B of Sarum and M. Nowell Here is another as short an answere as yours M. Stap. and a great deale truer whiche I remitte to the indifferent viewers of both their answeres Nowe might we both rest and breath vs from further answering of these ensamples and spare penue ynke paper and time also that he séemeth to accompt most precious But another thing was more precious vnto him and that was master Feckenhams hyre and his friendes largesse for so much Paper penne ynke and time spent about his booke and the gaine of the printed copies which the bigger volume it came vnto for he woulde not séeme a thréehalfepennie student the fatter exhibition it should yéelde and he séeme the greater clerke yea to go beyonde his masters And therefore there is no remedie he will spare neyther penne ynke paper time nor paynes also but that his Counterblast shall be blowne vp to so large and full a volume that it may encounter euen the best of theirs To whose answeres if he shoulde referre himselfe and saye no more thereto Then I feare me sayth he woulde steppe forth if not master Horne a good simple plaine man in his dealings yet some other ioly fine freshe pregnant wittie fellowe yea and bring me to the streightes which way so euer I did treade You are loath I perceiue master Stapleton to be brought into the streight way to treade aright therein for then your wrie treading woulde soone be espied But ye séeke crookes and shifting answeres for the nonce And lyke the vayne talkatiue Arrian Philosopher ye dispise the right reuerende and learned father calling
ouer the Reubenites and the Gadites and the halfe of the tribe of Manasses for euery matter perteyning to God and for the kings businesse that is to say both in spirituall and temporall things And also a little aboue In all the businesse of the Lorde and for the seruice of the King. Howbeit I speake not this so much to proue King Dauids supremacie ouer the Porters in all and euery ecclesiasticall matter so well as temporall but chiefly to followe your shift of the Prophetes For here we sée howe expresly the Prophets also were appoynted their orders by the king and euen the principall fathers of them attendant vnto him as their children were to them And thoughe theyr children were vnder theyr gouernmentes as were the inferiour Priestes vnder the higher Priestes yet as Asaph Heman and Iduthim were vnder the gouernment of the King also who ordered directed appoynted and coÌ„maunded them so was Aaron and his successors the high priests vnder the appointment and order of the King for all that their sonnes and inferior priests were vnderneath their gouernment For the one gouernment doth not exclude the other as master Stapleton himselfe confesseth that in one man many rulers may and do dayly concurre which in some sense may euery one be called his supreme gouernour And thus was first God by the ministerie of his priestes and prophetes the absolute supreme gouernour vnto Dauid So was Dauid next vnder God by his ouersight ordering and commaunding those ecclesiasticall actions to be rightly done the supreme gouernour not onely to the Leuits and Porters but to the chiefe Priestes to the chiefe Prophets and all And so were the chiefe priestes and principall Prophets in their functions and ministeries of theyr offices the supreme gouernors ouer their inferior priests prophets and yet was not their gouernment embarring the kings nor the kings any whit preiudicial to theirs For the priestes and the prophets did the action but the coÌ„maundements the appointing ordring was the kings next to god who coÌ„maunded them to him â—…e to the priests prophets And this order should M. St. haue séene had he but read the next sentence before the text that he vrgeth Secundum dispositioneÌ„ Dauid regis Gad videÌ„tu regis c. According to the commaundement or disposition of Dauid the king of Gad the kings Seer of visions and Nathan the prophet c. Thus the prince euen in those thingâ—… that god coÌ„maundeth by the hand of the prophets is chéef for his authoritie vnder god Next to whom are adioyâ—…ed the Prophets or learned preachers or ministers of Gods worde as by whose mouth or hande God commaundeth it to be done and haue mosts skill thereof And yet that both priest prophet do their offices faithfully apperteyneth to the kings coÌ„mauÌ„dement appéereth further throughout this chap. as also in Ezechias ensample froÌ„ whence be takes this seÌ„tence as we shall sée wheÌ„ we come therto Onely thus much to detect the shifts that M. St. maketh stil leaping from priest to prophet froÌ„ prophet again to priest as it were a squirrel skipping froÌ„ one trée to another to saue hir froÌ„ the birdbolt but all wil not be nothing wil any thing serue his turne but euery thing maketh quite against him which wheÌ„ he séeth as it were to set an Oliuer agaynst a Rowlande he alleageth agaynst king Dauids eusample the ensample of Carolus Magnus Againe saith he the like might you haue alleaged of Carolus Magnus that he corrected most diligently the order of reading and singing in the church that he brought first into Frauâ—…ce caâ—…tum GregorianuÌ„ the order of singing lefte by S. Gregorie at Rome and appoynted singers therfore when they did not well placed other in their rowmes And many such other like matters of the church wherin that godly Emperour much busied him selfe and yet exercised no supreme gouernment ouer the clergie but was of all other Princes most far froÌ„ it as it may easily appeare to him that wil read in the decrees dist 19. in memoriam where he protesteth obedience to the Sea of Rome yea though an importable charge should be layde vpon him by that holy Sea. Ye haue picked out an vnlike vneuen match M. St. to compare herein the doings of king Dauid with K. Charlemaines Where is become your Impar congressus Achilli Troilus the vnequall matche betwene Troilus and Achilles Howe corrupte the tyme of king Charlemayne was and what practises and fetches your Pope vsed to get the crowne of Fraunce to Pepin his father from the right and lawful prince therof and the Empire of Rome to Charlemayne froÌ„ the Emperour of Constantinople to whoÌ„ it dyd belong euery hiltoriographer can tel may fitter be declared in his proper place than here to leape ouer the stile ere ye come at it by many an hundreth miles yet for hast ye breake your shinnes euen agaynst those things that as trifles ye recken vp vnto vs As the correcting most diligently the order of reading and singing in the Church the placing and displacing singers if he did these things as a godly Emperor as ye say then he tooke it that as Emperor he had a gouernment in them But ye say as a godly Emperor he much busied him selfe If he found him self busines like a busie body wherin he had no authoritie thus so place displace to institute order and correct how was he a godly Emperour therin or not rather as ye sayd before played Oza his part But ye say he was therein a godly Emperour therefore he did nothing of any buâ—…iositie but of his owne authoritie and supreme gouernment therein Well yet say you it was but in singing and ouer singers Was it no further M. Stapleton howe then do you say the like you might haue alleaged of Carolus Magnus to King Dauids doings Did King Dauid meddle onely with singing and singers Did he not meddle with Priestes and Prophetes also But to salue the matter ye say and many other suche like matters of the Church Whie tell ye not man what those many other matters were haue ye no lust to declare them for feare they would marre your market Well let them alone till we come to the proper examination of them Howbeit whatsoeuer they shall fall out to be here remember ye liken them to King Dauids doings But King Dauid commaunded and appoynted singers Priests Prophetes all the clergie high and lowe of what degrée so euer Ergo King Charlemaines authoritie stretched further than to singing men euen to all Priestes Prophetes and all the clergie besides And thus eyther your similitude is not like or else the one and the other maketh cleane against you But if these doings of Charlemaine be not like yet hath master Stapleton another proufe in store Also in the decrees 11. Q. 1. which Iuo also alleageth where he renueth out of the Code of Theodosius a lawe binding all his subiects
the kings'gouernmeÌ„t vntil Saul came Ergo kings gouerne theÌ„ not in that they are meÌ„bers of Christ. Is all your drift come to this M. Saunders to run from the matter to the name of kings what if neither the name nor estate of kings were before the time of Saul was not the people of God alwayes gouerned euen froÌ„ the beginning with a ciuil or politike Magistrate cal him King or Prince or Patriark or Duke or Iudge or what you will do you inueygh here onely againste Kings is it the name of King that you beare such spite vnto to call it but a fleshly power as though Sathan hadeuen fleshed you against kings For what more grosse or bestiall name can you giue the gouernment of the Turkes infidels than here you terme the power persons of ChristiaÌ„ kings but al these argumeÌ„ts are false M. Saund. the Church of Christ neuer wanted magistrats the magistrates were not only themselues if they were good the members of Christ although they had a fleshly part the old man in theÌ„ as euen the pastors haue also but they had a speciall charge and regard to their subiects eueÌ„ in that they were meÌ„bers of Christ. Not that they toke vpon them the office of spirituall pastors to preach gods word vnto theÌ„ administer the sacraments except som of them were such persons as might not only ouersée it done of others but might or ought theÌ„selues to do it as all the Patriarches ordinarilye till Aarons time and some of the Priests and Prophets extraordinarily and very seldome afterwardes chosen therevnto but this was the duetie of all the Magistrates which all the good Princes did principallie looke vnto howsoeuer other did neglecte or abuse the same This therefore Maister Saunders is a foule sclaunder to speake so lewdly on Christian Princes and also a contradiction to your former saying that theyr estate was spirituall Yea howe doth this agree with your words next following VVherefore say you sith Kings and pastours do now come together into one body of the Church and the powers of theÌ„ before distinguished oughte nowe to serue one Christe to wit eyther of them in their place and order but most certaine it is that the spirituall power which is instituted for the church is knit more nerer with Christe than the power of earthlye Kings which is appoynted to defende men in earthly peace not onely within but also without the Churche of Christe I see not but that he hath loste his common sense in iudging gods matters if any man contende that the spirituall power of the Church is not aboue the earthly power of Kings â–ª What soeuer you see or see not M. Saunders I see you haue a great conceite of your selfe that thus in your conclusion almost of euery argumente you make all men fooles doltes and madde and out of their wits and to want reason common sense and to be no better than beasts if they denie that that you affirme Whether it come of the contempte of others or of the pride of your selfe that makes you to vse these speaches so often let other wiser Iudge for we are fooles and madde men in your opinion But if you be not blinde in your owne conceite doe you not see what contraries still you vtter to make the Princes power â—…oth fleshely and spirituall to stretch to furder endes than bodily peace yet to stretch no furder but these are your olde contradictions You tell vs of a superioritie and a superioritie we haue graunted Neither haue we so loste our common sense but that we see your false packing in charging vs to contende that the spirituall power of the Churche is not aboue the earthly power of Princes For neither do we denie the superioritie of the spirituall power of the Churche neither do we graunt the power of Christian Princes to be onely an earthly power But what is this for the priest to depose the Prince God be thanked we haue not so loste our common sense but that we see you straggle from the question But let vs sée if you come any néerer to it For if neither parte be ouer the other howe in one body of the Churche do bothe powers abide beeing not vnited or howe are they vnited if they yet abide so distinguished that one can not gouerne the other or who euer sawe in one body of a liuing creature two members vtterly distinguished placed in one place and honor who hathe seene except in a monstruous body the foote made equall to the arme the thighe to the necke the legge to the fide But and if the kingly and spirituall power are not altogither equall members distinguished onely in number as two handes two feete and two eyes for those that differ in originall in vse and in ende can neuer be equall or else they be also thinges vtterly seuered bicause they be vnited and filled togither in one body of the Churche we must needes confesse that they differ in the placing of them and yet they are continued in the compasse of one body Héere is Sim Suttle M. Saunders of all that euer I sée A man had néede haue more than common sense that shall vnderstande this geare althoughe he studie for it you couet to speake so darkely We go playnely to worke we graunt that the ecclesiastical power and the polytical power are two distinct powers We graunt that they are ioyned togither in one body of the Churche of Christ. We graunt also that the one hathe in some respects a superioritie and in other respectes an inferioritie to the other We do not confounde them béeing thus ioyned and yet distinguished the one in the same or like place with the other It is your selues that woulde thus confound them giuing bothe the powers vnto one person and confounde one member wyth another and make a monstrous body We attribute not both powers to the Prince as you do to your Pope We affirme that the Prince differeth from the Bishop the Bishop from the Prince We affirme that bothe are members of the mysticall body of the Church of Christ and bothe rule the other members and that as meÌ„bers too We affirme the Bishops power in respect of his ministerie in exhorting and rebuking is aboue the Princes and the Princes in respect of his gouernment in maynteyning punishing is aboue the Bishops So that héere is not one or the like place and honor geuen to bothe but bothe haue suche places as are fitte for either And thus as the head is superior in one respect coÌ„cerning iudgement inuention and memorie and the harte is superior in another respect concerning lyfe and will so the Bishop may be graunted a superior member in the body of the Church in one respect and the Prince superior in another What monstrous body is héere or what confusion or rather not in your owne darke spéeches instling confounding these things