Selected quad for the lemma: master_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
master_n	aaron_n	lord_n	people_n	26	3	4.3170	3	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A85314	Separation examined: or, a treatise vvherein the grounds for separation from the ministry and churches of England are weighed, and found too light. The practise proved to be not onely unwarrantable, but likewise so hurtful to the churches, that church-reformation cannot with any comfort go forward, so long as such separation is tolerated. Also an humble request presented to the congregational divines, that since the differences between them and the classical-divines are very small they would please to strike in with the classical-divines in carrying on the worke of reformation, before the inundation of these corrupt opinions, have destroyed both ordinances and religion. / By Gi. Firmin minister to the church in Shalford in essex.	Firmin, Giles, 1614-1697.	1652 (1652)	Wing F964; Thomason E656_12; ESTC R206624	107,263	123

that_o though_o there_o be_v officer_n in_o a_o church_n yet_o the_o people_n may_v ordain_v which_o i_o be_o sure_a those_o divine_n who_o be_v for_o the_o people_n power_n in_o ordination_n will_v never_o admit_v be_v cross_a to_o their_o own_o principle_n and_o scripture_n 4_o we_o find_v in_o the_o eleven_o verse_n that_o after_o that_o be_v do_v aaron_n do_v wave_v these_o levite_n before_o the_o lord_n so_o that_o they_o be_v not_o complete_a till_o aaron_n have_v do_v his_o act_n whence_o i_o remember_v learned_a master_n cotton_n in_o his_o discourse_n with_o i_o say_v the_o people_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d there_o do_v but_o answer_v to_o the_o people_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o the_o new_a testament_n and_o aaron_n wave_v of_o they_o do_v answer_v to_o our_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d this_o clause_n only_o i_o remember_v but_o he_o have_v a_o large_a answer_n which_o i_o take_v from_o he_o in_o discourse_n by_o which_o i_o remember_v he_o do_v enervate_a this_o objection_n but_o i_o lose_v his_o note_n with_o all_o my_o other_o help_n in_o my_o shipwreck_n these_o man_n call_v for_o precept_n and_o example_n give_v you_o we_o one_o for_o this_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n for_o you_o put_v we_o to_o that_o also_o we_o must_v give_v you_o they_o out_o of_o the_o new_a testament_n yea_o iwould_v go_v further_o and_o desire_v they_o to_o give_v i_o one_o examplein_n the_o first_o six_o hundred_o year_n after_o christ_n that_o ever_o the_o people_n do_v ordain_v their_o minister_n now_o this_o be_v strange_a to_o i_o that_o we_o can_v find_v no_o foot-step_n of_o any_o such_o thing_n in_o the_o scripture_n nor_o in_o the_o age_n next_o and_o yet_o that_o we_o shall_v make_v it_o so_o frequent_a that_o they_o must_v ordain_v most_o frequent_o for_o if_o every_o particular_a church_n be_v independent_a as_o now_o such_o a_o church_n where_o i_o be_o in_o a_o small_a village_n where_o the_o maintenance_n will_v not_o keep_v one_o minister_n and_o therefore_o to_o be_v sure_o we_o can_v have_v more_o minister_n then_o if_o the_o minister_n remove_v or_o die_v if_o there_o come_v a_o new_a minister_n the_o people_n must_v ever_o ordain_v thus_o it_o must_v be_v in_o most_o place_n in_o england_n few_o will_v be_v except_v 2_o justin_n mart._n apol_n 2_o and_o if_o every_o new_a election_n must_v have_v a_o new_a ordination_n than_o it_o must_v always_o be_v in_o the_o people_n power_n in_o the_o primitive_a time_n there_o be_v church_n in_o city_n and_o village_n but_o that_o the_o christian_n in_o village_n do_v ordain_v their_o officer_n i_o will_v glad_o see_v that_o prove_v ordination_n in_o those_o time_n be_v carry_v by_o a_o continue_a succession_n the_o apostle_n ordain_v some_o minister_n those_o ordain_o other_o so_o downward_o but_o never_o by_o the_o people_n learned_a dr._n 6_o ●ell_o enter_fw-mi to_o 2._o l._n 3._o c._n 2._o s_o 6_o ames_n seem_v to_o answer_v this_o for_o whereas_o bellarmine_n have_v say_v in_o novo_fw-la testamento_fw-la ubicunque_fw-la mentio_fw-la fit_a manunm_fw-la impositionis_fw-la semper_fw-la ea_fw-la apostolis_n caeterisque_fw-la episcapis_fw-la nunquàm_fw-la vero_fw-la plebi_fw-la tribuitur_fw-la the_o doctor_n answer_v to_o this_o in_o historiâ_fw-la novi_fw-la testamenti_fw-la exempla_fw-la babemus_fw-la constitutionis_fw-la ministerii_fw-la &_o ejusdem_fw-la etiam_fw-la conservationis_fw-la sed_fw-la non_fw-la restaurationis_fw-la ejus_fw-la aut_fw-la reformationis_fw-la post_fw-la generalem_fw-la apostasiam_fw-la omne_fw-la igitur_fw-la quae_fw-la pertinent_a ad_fw-la plebem_fw-la fidelem_fw-la in_fw-la tali_fw-la casu_fw-la non_fw-la representantur_fw-la ibi_fw-la certis_fw-la exemplis_fw-la however_o these_o word_n seem_v to_o carry_v it_o as_o if_o the_o doctor_n do_v hold_v that_o the_o people_n have_v this_o power_n in_o a_o general_a apostasy_n yet_o i_o question_v whether_o the_o doctor_n will_v look_v upon_o the_o church_n of_o england_n now_o under_o such_o a_o notion_n neither_o will_v he_o deny_v the_o ordination_n of_o our_o minister_n to_o be_v valid_a for_o substance_n but_o yet_o hear_v one_o may_v cast_v in_o something_o in_o time_n of_o reformation_n it_o may_v be_v he_o say_v 1_o to_o reform_v the_o minister_n be_v to_o form_n it_o now_o as_o it_o be_v first_o form_v but_o the_o ministry_n be_v not_o at_o first_o form_v by_o the_o people_n ergo_fw-la the_o ministry_n can_v be_v now_o reform_v by_o the_o people_n i_o think_v the_o major_n will_v not_o be_v deny_v for_o the_o minor_a let_v any_o prove_v that_o according_a to_o this_o some_o will_v say_v we_o must_v have_v apostle_n they_o form_v the_o minister_n first_o we_o speak_v of_o ordination_n i_o say_v non_fw-la sequitur_fw-la unless_o you_o can_v prove_v the_o apostle_n ordain_v only_o quâ_fw-la apostle_n if_o so_o i_o know_v not_o how_o those_o minister_n who_o the_o apostle_n do_v ordain_v can_v ordain_v other_o but_o to_o be_v sure_a they_o do_v 2_o i_o desire_n a_o text_n of_o scripture_n that_o hold_v out_o this_o that_o the_o people_n may_v ordain_v in_o a_o general_a apostasy_n 3_o i_o doubt_v we_o shall_v rare_o find_v such_o time_n when_o there_o be_v a_o society_n of_o godly_a christian_n to_o ordain_v but_o there_o be_v some_o minister_n also_o ordinary_o there_o be_v minister_n who_o teach_v this_o people_n 4_o it_o will_v be_v a_o question_n whether_o the_o apostasy_n have_v be_v such_o as_o to_o require_v this_o for_o if_o baptism_n be_v not_o repeat_v but_o be_v think_v valid_a though_o administer_v by_o a_o romish_a minister_n because_o he_o be_v set_v apart_o to_o the_o work_n and_o keep_v the_o essence_n of_o the_o ordinance_n why_o may_v not_o the_o ordination_n administer_v by_o those_o minister_n hold_v as_o well_o 2_o a_o second_o ground_n that_o make_v i_o doubt_n be_v this_o it_o seem_v strange_a to_o i_o that_o christ_n shall_v appoint_v extraordinary_a officer_n and_o make_v that_o a_o part_n of_o their_o work_n which_o the_o people_n themselves_o may_v do_v paul_n leave_v titus_n to_o ordain_v but_o what_o need_v that_o the_o people_n may_v well_o say_v what_o need_n paul_n leave_v titus_n to_o do_v that_o which_o we_o can_v do_v ourselves_o frustra_fw-la fit_a per_fw-la plura_fw-la etc._n etc._n the_o apostle_n never_o need_v but_o to_o preach_v and_o convert_v the_o people_n to_o the_o faith_n when_o they_o have_v do_v so_o they_o shall_v have_v say_v we_o have_v now_o do_v our_o work_n bring_v you_o to_o be_v believer_n you_o may_v now_o elect_v a_o officer_n and_o ordain_v he_o yourselves_o the_o power_n be_v you_o only_o here_o will_v have_v be_v some_o trouble_n about_o baptise_v since_o than_o i_o find_v that_o this_o be_v part_n of_o their_o office_n than_o i_o can_v believe_v this_o be_v the_o people_n work_n paul_n may_v easy_o have_v leave_v we_o a_o precedent_n in_o some_o society_n of_o christian_n that_o will_v have_v quiet_v all_o our_o dispute_n more_o may_v be_v say_v and_o be_v say_v by_o other_o but_o i_o see_v our_o new_a england_n divine_v do_v almost_o yield_v it_o by_o give_v power_n to_o some_o minister_n to_o ordain_v in_o other_o congregation_n since_o nothing_o can_v be_v draw_v from_o scripture_n by_o precept_n or_o example_n to_o prove_v this_o hence_o some_o will_v draw_v it_o out_o by_o argument_n those_o who_o can_v do_v the_o great_a may_v do_v the_o less_o the_o people_n can_v do_v the_o great_a viz._n elect_v ergo_fw-la the_o minor_a be_v as_o free_o deny_v as_o it_o be_v affirm_v election_n be_v not_o the_o great_a scripture-light_n be_v judge_n that_o be_v the_o design_n i_o doubt_v of_o make_v ordination_n but_o a_o adjunct_n for_o so_o indeed_o it_o will_v easy_o be_v grant_v if_o election_n give_v the_o essence_n and_o this_o only_o be_v a_o adjunct_n the_o people_n may_v well_o ordain_v yea_o and_o in_o a_o church_n where_o there_o be_v officer_n to_o ordain_v i_o know_v not_o why_o they_o who_o give_v the_o essence_n may_v not_o give_v the_o adjunct_n why_o shall_v a_o adjunct_n be_v proper_a to_o the_o officer_n only_o in_o that_o church_n when_o the_o essence_n do_v not_o belong_v to_o they_o 10._o mr._n n._n w._n omnis_fw-la quaestio_fw-la non_fw-la per_fw-la aliud_fw-la quod_fw-la quaeritur_fw-la babebit_fw-la resolutionem_fw-la nec_fw-la ambiguitas_fw-la per_fw-la ambiguitatem_fw-la sed_fw-la ex_fw-la elaris_fw-la manifestis_fw-la etc._n etc._n irenae_n l._n 2._o c._n 10._o further_o than_o as_o member_n they_o join_v with_o the_o people_n for_o so_o it_o seem_v the_o officer_n elect_v as_o member_n and_o if_o you_o do_v elect_v only_o as_o member_n why_o shall_v you_o not_o also_o ordain_v as_o member_n for_o election_n be_v the_o great_a this_o the_o less_o the_o other_o argument_n be_v the_o people_n be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n ergo_fw-la but_o this_o be_v not_o easy_o yield_v it_o be_v a_o

official_a power_n till_o i_o be_v also_o ordain_v the_o scripture_n then_o express_v such_o solemnity_n in_o this_o act_n and_o not_o in_o the_o other_o make_v i_o think_v this_o be_v not_o such_o a_o slight_a adjunct_n and_o the_o other_o only_o essential_a five_o i_o observe_v two_o text_n which_o make_v i_o think_v ordination_n be_v not_o a_o adjunct_n 2_o tim._n 2._o and_o the_o thing_n which_o thou_o have_v hear_v of_o i_o among_o many_o witness_n the_o same_o commit_v thou_o to_o faithful_a man_n who_o shall_v be_v able_a to_o teach_v other_o also_o and_o that_o text_n 1_o tim._n 5.22_o lay_v hand_n sudden_o upon_o no_o man_n neither_o be_v partaker_n of_o other_o man_n sin_n etc._n etc._n timothy_n be_v a_o church-officer_n here_o be_v a_o charge_n give_v to_o he_o to_o take_v heed_n who_o come_v into_o the_o ministry_n yea_o he_o may_v be_v partaker_n of_o other_o man_n sin_n if_o he_o have_v not_o a_o special_a care_n who_o he_o admit_v into_o the_o ministry_n nam_fw-la si_fw-la quem_fw-la cito_fw-la ordinaveris_fw-la qui_fw-la indignus_fw-la sit_fw-la etc._n communicare_fw-la cum_fw-la dicit_fw-la peccatis_fw-la qui_fw-la non_fw-la probatus_fw-la fuerit_fw-la ordinatus_fw-la hieron_n in_o loc._n v._o zanch._n in_o 4_o praec_fw-la p._n 784._o etc._n etc._n communicabis_fw-la peccatis_fw-la alienis_fw-la dum_fw-la ille_fw-la malè_fw-la docebit_fw-la aut_fw-la vivet_fw-la say_v gerhard_n in_o loc._n he_o quote_v also_o leo_n papa_n ep._n 87._o ad_fw-la africanos_n episc_n quid_fw-la est_fw-la citò_fw-la manus_fw-la imponere_fw-la nisi_fw-la ante_fw-la aetatem_fw-la maturitatis_fw-la antè_fw-la tempus_fw-la examinis_fw-la ante_fw-la meritum_fw-la laboris_fw-la antè_fw-la experientiam_fw-la disciplinae_fw-la sacerdotalem_fw-la honorem_fw-la tribuere_fw-la non_fw-la probatis_fw-la calvin_n also_o on_o the_o last_o word_n keep_v thyself_o pure_a ac_fw-la si_fw-la dixisset_fw-la si_fw-la quid_fw-la perperam_fw-la fiat_fw-la ab_fw-la aliis_fw-la vide_fw-la ne_fw-la ulla_fw-la ex_fw-la consensu_fw-la vel_fw-la approbatione_fw-la contagio_fw-la ad_fw-la te_fw-la perveniat_fw-la he_o refer_v it_o to_o timothy_n join_v with_o other_o in_o ordain_v unworthy_a person_n now_o these_o text_n do_v not_o belong_v to_o the_o people_n but_o minister_n officer_n as_o be_v timothy_n which_o make_v i_o think_v that_o what_o the_o minister_n do_v in_o examine_v try_v ordain_v be_v more_o than_o the_o people_n election_n where_o do_v we_o find_v such_o thing_n speak_v to_o the_o people_n where_o the_o great_a blame_n lie_v for_o unworthy_a man_n come_v into_o the_o ministry_n sure_o there_o must_v lie_v the_o great_a power_n of_o admit_v man_n into_o the_o ministry_n else_o the_o blame_n be_v not_o just_a but_o we_o see_v the_o blame_n be_v here_o lay_v upon_o the_o minister_n ☞_o ☞_o paul_n no_o where_n write_v to_o the_o people_n to_o commit_v the_o thing_n they_o have_v hear_v etc._n etc._n nor_o do_v he_o bid_v they_o not_o lay_v on_o hand_n sudden_o etc._n etc._n he_o bid_v they_o indeed_o look_v out_o man_n for_o deacon_n but_o that_o do_v not_o answer_v these_o text_n but_o if_o the_o great_a stroke_n the_o formal_a cause_n lie_v in_o the_o popular_a election_n the_o minister_n may_v well_o say_v we_o do_v but_o ordain_v we_o give_v but_o a_o adjunct_n the_o people_n do_v the_o main_a act_n they_o give_v the_o essence_n the_o essence_n be_v give_v we_o must_v give_v the_o adjunct_n so_o that_o there_o will_v be_v no_o blame_n leave_v for_o the_o minister_n 6_o it_o shall_v seem_v by_o a_o passage_n of_o doct._n 12._o bellar._n enter_v to._n 2_o l_o 3._o c._n 2._o s._n 12._o ames_n that_o ordination_n be_v more_o than_o a_o adjunct_n bellarmine_n have_v say_v vocatio_fw-la seu_fw-la missio_fw-la ministrorum_fw-la non_fw-la ad_fw-la populum_fw-la pertinet_fw-la sed_fw-la ad_fw-la episcopos_fw-la etc._n etc._n doct._n ames_n in_o his_o second_o answer_n have_v these_o word_n absurdè_fw-la ad_fw-la modum_fw-la distinguitur_fw-la vocatio_fw-la ministri_fw-la ab_fw-la ejus_fw-la ordinatione_fw-la &_o electione_n tanquam_fw-la pars_fw-la distincta_fw-la neque_fw-la in_o scripture_n neque_fw-la in_o antiquis_fw-la patribus_fw-la alia_fw-la vocatio_fw-la ordinaria_fw-la memoratur_fw-la quam_fw-la illa_fw-la quae_fw-la exurgit_fw-la quasi_fw-la totum_fw-la ex_fw-la electione_n &_o ordinatione_n what_o totum_fw-la the_o doctor_n mean_v be_v plain_a by_o his_o word_n exurgit_fw-la ex_fw-la ordinatione_fw-la &_o electione_n he_o mean_v totum_fw-la integrale_fw-la so_o than_o ordination_n and_o election_n be_v member_n of_o this_o integrum_fw-la but_o all_o the_o member_n do_v give_v essence_n to_o the_o integrum_fw-la for_o membra_fw-la sunt_fw-la symbola_fw-la causarum_fw-la essentialium_fw-la if_o so_o then_o ordination_n can_v be_v a_o adjunct_n in_o respect_n of_o a_o ministerial_a call_n for_o no_o adjunct_n give_v essence_n but_o follow_v the_o essence_n suppose_v the_o subject_a complete_a in_o its_o essence_n before_o if_o then_o ordination_n do_v give_v essence_n as_o well_o as_o election_n this_o notion_n may_v hold_v else_o we_o shall_v have_v a_o integrum_fw-la consist_v but_o of_o two_o part_n and_o but_o one_o part_n give_v the_o essence_n which_o can_v be_v this_o notion_n of_o a_o minister_n call_v to_o consist_v as_o a_o totum_fw-la ex_fw-la electione_n &_o ordinatione_n be_v much_o near_o the_o rule_n then_o to_o have_v election_n alone_o to_o give_v the_o essence_n and_o ordination_n to_o be_v but_o a_o adjunct_n to_o this_o agree_v mr._n jacob_n a_o man_n well_o know_a there_o be_v two_o essential_a part_n of_o call_v to_o the_o ministry_n election_n ordination_n 64_o dr._n seaman_n quote_v he_o ans_fw-fr to_o diat_v p._n 64_o so_o the_o call_v be_v a_o totum_fw-la as_o for_o the_o objection_n make_v against_o this_o if_o ordination_n be_v essential_a what_o then_o shall_v become_v of_o our_o minister_n who_o ordination_n be_v not_o legitimate_a this_o i_o have_v speak_v to_o before_o and_o so_o what_o will_v you_o do_v in_o case_n a_o church_n be_v so_o cast_v by_o providence_n that_o they_o can_v get_v no_o officer_n to_o ordain_v they_o a_o officer_n for_o those_o who_o be_v of_o this_o opinion_n deny_v the_o people_n power_n to_o ordain_v it_n be_v easy_o yield_v by_o our_o divine_n that_o may_v be_v do_v in_o a_o extraordinary_a case_n which_o ordinary_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v do_v see_v rutherford_n due_a right_n of_o presbytery_n p._n 187._o gillespie_n miscel_n p._n 34._o etc._n etc._n for_o my_o part_n i_o conceive_v then_o the_o church_n fast_v and_o pray_v for_o such_o a_o one_o who_o be_v elect_v may_v do_v that_o which_o be_v equivalent_a to_o ordination_n though_o it_o be_v not_o ordination_n formalitèr_fw-la the_o strong_a argument_n wherewith_o reverend_a master_n hooker_n prove_v that_o election_n give_v the_o essential_o to_o a_o officer_n be_v this_o one_o relate_v give_v the_o essential_a constitute_a cause_n to_o another_o but_o pastor_n and_o people_n be_v relate_v ergo_fw-la the_o answer_n which_o mr._n rutherford_n give_v to_o it_o viz._n that_o ordination_n make_v he_o a_o minister_n before_o and_o election_n do_v but_o appropriate_v he_o this_o mr._n hooker_n deny_v to_o be_v any_o answer_n because_o it_o suppose_v ordination_n to_o antecede_v election_n which_o be_v quite_o cross_a to_o the_o scripture_n pattern_n act._n 6.3.6_o but_o with_o favour_n i_o shall_v humble_o propound_v this_o question_n language_n this_o be_v not_o a_o bare_a supposition_n for_o one_o of_o the_o young_a scholar_n do_v now_o preach_v to_o the_o indian_n in_o their_o language_n whether_o ordination_n may_v in_o no_o case_n precede_v election_n as_o now_o in_o this_o case_n suppose_v one_o of_o the_o scholar_n in_o the_o college_n or_o suppose_v four_o or_o more_o have_v learn_v the_o indian_a language_n and_o upon_o examination_n they_o be_v find_v to_o be_v ministerial_o qualify_v suppose_v now_o the_o presbytery_n shall_v solemn_o set_v apart_o these_o young_a man_n to_o the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n and_o send_v they_o forth_o to_o preach_v among_o the_o indian_n though_o the_o indian_n have_v not_o elect_v they_o here_o indeed_o will_v the_o essential_o of_o a_o officer_n be_v give_v without_o election_n i_o pray_v what_o breach_n of_o rule_n will_v here_o be_v if_o it_o be_v say_v that_o the_o example_n mention_v act._n 6._o &_o act._n 14._o show_v their_o election_n go_v first_o it_o be_v true_a indeed_o where_o there_o be_v church_n but_o here_o be_v none_o beside_o act._n 13.3_o when_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n be_v send_v out_o to_o preach_v among_o the_o gentile_n they_o be_v ordain_v it_o though_o some_o deny_v ordination_n here_o to_o be_v mean_v yet_o many_o learned_a man_n affirm_v it_o when_o no_o election_n do_v precede_v it_o be_v true_a they_o be_v extraordinary_a officer_n but_o what_o then_o though_o this_o do_v not_o make_v those_o young_a man_n extraordinary_a officer_n as_o be_v the_o apostle_n to_o have_v power_n in_o all_o church_n yet_o i_o see_v not_o any_o breach_n of_o rule_n in_o separate_v they_o to_o this_o work_n if_o it_o

proceed_v whether_o the_o people_n obey_v or_o not_o it_o be_v therefore_o their_o revenge_n by_o way_n of_o censure_n in_o discipline_n which_o they_o have_v in_o readiness_n when_o the_o obedience_n of_o the_o church_n be_v fulfil_v in_o discern_v and_o approve_v the_o equity_n of_o the_o censure_n which_o the_o apostle_n or_o elder_n have_v declare_v to_o they_o from_o the_o word_n that_o phrase_n discern_v and_o approve_v of_o the_o equity_n needs_o a_o little_a more_o clear_v but_o i_o leave_v they_o however_o this_o reverend_n divine_a seem_v to_o refer_v that_o obedience_n unto_o the_o will_n of_o christ_n by_o the_o word_n go_v before_o his_o exposition_n yet_o that_o hinder_v not_o but_o it_o may_v in_o some_o sense_n be_v apply_v to_o their_o officer_n who_o also_o obey_v christ_n for_o that_o phrase_n be_v not_o strange_a to_o have_v people_n obey_v their_o officer_n heb._n 13.17_o o_o bey_z your_o ruler_n there_o may_v be_v some_o thing_n in_o it_o not_o only_o obey_v your_o teacher_n but_o ruler_n when_o they_o rule_v as_o when_o they_o preach_v mr._n norton_n express_v 67._o resp_n ad_fw-la apol._n p._n 67._o as_o i_o conceive_v how_o the_o brethren_n act_v with_o the_o eldership_n for_o so_o i_o remember_v it_o be_v in_o his_o table_n which_o i_o have_v &_o have_v some_o thought_n to_o have_v print_v they_o but_o in_o that_o great_a fire_n when_o colchester_n be_v besiege_v have_v lend_v they_o to_o a_o friend_n they_o be_v burn_v as_o i_o hear_v part_n judicii_fw-la in_o rebus_fw-la jurisdictionis_fw-la quales_fw-la sunt_fw-la fratrum_fw-la examinatio_fw-la dijudicatio_fw-la &_o sententiatio_fw-la causae_fw-la per_fw-la modum_fw-la obedientiae_fw-la presbyterio_n debitae_fw-la 2_o cor._n 10.16_o &_o cap._n 2.9_o mr._n gillespie_n also_o beside_o his_o own_o opinion_n give_v reason_n etc._n aar_n rod_n p._n 289_o etc._n etc._n and_o allege_v divers_a divine_n who_o interpret_v this_o place_n of_o church_n censure_n &_o these_o word_n when_o your_o obedience_n be_v fulfil_v give_v he_o one_o ground_n for_o his_o interpretation_n for_o as_o estius_n and_o novarinus_n explain_v the_o apostle_n reason_n it_o be_v in_o vain_a to_o excommunicate_v all_o such_o as_o be_v worthy_a of_o excommunication_n when_o there_o be_v a_o general_a renitency_n in_o the_o church_n but_o still_o we_o observe_v the_o people_n act_v obediential_o to_o their_o officer_n that_o they_o do_v not_o at_o that_o time_n be_v their_o fault_n beside_o if_o excommunication_n be_v the_o high_a act_n of_o rule_n and_o therefore_o can_v be_v perform_v where_o ruler_n be_v not_o as_o say_v mr._n cotton_n and_o if_o a_o homogeneal_a body_n can_v express_v no_o spiritual_a jurisdiction_n but_o only_o withdraw_v as_o say_v master_n burrough_n than_o the_o people_n have_v ruler_n be_v not_o now_o make_v ruler_n nor_o have_v the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n there_o be_v indeed_o jurisdiction_n exercise_v among_o they_o by_o reason_n of_o their_o ruler_n to_o who_o they_o consent_v and_o obey_v government_n be_v proper_a to_o the_o presbytery_n say_v acute_a mr._n norton_n 67_o resp_n ad_fw-la apol._n p_o 65_o 67_o and_o show_v under_o seven_o particular_n how_o the_o presbyter_n govern_v in_o church_n affair_n and_o so_o in_o this_o exercise_n of_o discipline_n if_o so_o than_o the_o people_n be_v govern_v in_o this_o act_n how_o then_o do_v a_o people_n govern_v act_n in_o reference_n to_o ruler_n govern_v but_o by_o way_n of_o obedience_n so_o that_o to_o i_o there_o appear_v a_o vast_a difference_n between_o the_o power_n of_o discipline_n as_o it_o be_v in_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o presbytery_n and_o as_o in_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o people_n though_o the_o minister_n can_v excommunicate_v without_o the_o people_n i_o speak_v a_o few_o word_n to_o this_o point_n here_o because_o i_o will_v spare_v the_o labour_n in_o another_o place_n as_o for_o the_o analogy_n draw_v from_o the_o civil_a power_n the_o people_n be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o civil_a power_n ergo_fw-la the_o fraternity_n be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o church_n power_n for_o the_o antecedent_n i_o leave_v that_o but_o the_o consequence_n i_o shall_v deny_v there_o be_v a_o great_a disproportion_n first_o the_o people_n be_v not_o the_o effect_n of_o their_o magistrate_n or_o follow_v after_o they_o as_o the_o people_n of_o israel_n be_v not_o of_o saul_n but_o the_o fraternity_n quâ_fw-la sic_fw-la be_v the_o effect_n of_o the_o ministry_n the_o apostle_n convert_v and_o after_o they_o the_o minister_n convert_v convert_v be_v but_o to_o make_v the_o people_n such_o for_o who_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n be_v give_v second_o there_o be_v some_o thing_n in_o this_o in_o corporation_n if_o the_o people_n have_v elect_v a_o man_n to_o be_v a_o alderman_n or_o mayor_n if_o he_o refuse_v it_o there_o be_v a_o fine_a set_v upon_o he_o some_o have_v be_v fine_v 20_o li._n some_o more_o according_a as_o the_o corporation_n be_v but_o if_o the_o body_n of_o the_o people_n will_v choose_v a_o officer_n and_o he_o will_v refuse_v it_o what_o then_o i_o know_v no_o kind_n of_o church_n act_n that_o reach_v he_o this_o show_v there_o be_v something_o more_o in_o civil_a than_o church_n power_n three_o the_o people_n do_v give_v to_o their_o magistrate_n a_o power_n to_o make_v law_n etc._n etc._n for_o their_o good_a but_o the_o church_n give_v no_o power_n into_o the_o hand_n of_o her_o minister_n but_o they_o have_v all_o their_o power_n immediate_o from_o christ_n four_o hence_o the_o people_n may_v limit_v their_o people_n or_o enlarge_v it_o but_o the_o people_n can_v limit_v nor_o enlarge_v the_o power_n the_o minister_n have_v five_o we_o see_v the_o magistrate_n act_n in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o people_n in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o commonwealth_n of_o england_n but_o minister_n do_v not_o act_v in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o church_n but_o christ_n as_o say_v mr._n burrough_n and_o mr._n norton_n before_o quote_v more_o may_v be_v produce_v but_o i_o content_v myself_o with_o these_o and_o though_o that_o maxim_n be_v receive_v salus_fw-la populi_fw-la suprema_fw-la lex_fw-la yet_o it_o hinder_v not_o but_o the_o people_n may_v save_v themselves_o though_o they_o be_v not_o the_o first_o subject_n of_o the_o key_n mr._n richardson_n who_o dr._n ames_n and_o mr._n tables_n manuscr_n tables_n hooker_n honour_v much_o and_o follow_v much_o placeth_z the_o power_n of_o bind_v and_o lose_v in_o the_o governor_n not_o in_o the_o people_n this_o discourse_n i_o have_v run_v into_o by_o answer_v to_o the_o first_o proposal_n which_o be_v the_o main_a i_o have_v bestow_v more_o line_n about_o it_o the_o rest_n i_o shall_v run_v over_o quick_o come_v we_o now_o to_o the_o second_o the_o second_o proposal_n may_v be_v this_o 48._o the_o second_o proposal_n no_o congregational_a divine_a dare_v put_v the_o form_n of_o a_o church_n in_o the_o explicitenesse_n of_o the_o covenant_n but_o these_o do_v survey_v pare_v first_o p._n 47_o 48._o we_o will_v have_v a_o explicit_a covenant_n in_o every_o particular_a church_n this_o we_o judge_v to_o be_v the_o form_n of_o a_o church_n and_o we_o can_v join_v with_o a_o church_n without_o it_o a._n many_o people_n have_v take_v up_o this_o by_o the_o end_n a_o covenant_n be_v the_o form_n of_o a_o church_n understand_v it_o of_o a_o explicit_a covenant_n but_o they_o know_v not_o what_o a_o form_n be_v if_o they_o do_v they_o will_v be_v more_o wary_a than_o they_o be_v but_o let_v we_o hear_v what_o congregationall_a man_n say_v from_o who_o you_o take_v up_o this_o word_n 1_o mr._n hooker_n say_v a_o implicit_a covenant_n preserve_v the_o true_a nature_n of_o the_o true_a church_n etc._n etc._n and_o a_o implicit_a covenant_n be_v when_o in_o their_o practice_n they_o do_v that_o whereby_o they_o make_v themselves_o engage_v to_o walk_v in_o such_o a_o society_n according_a to_o such_o rule_n of_o government_n which_o be_v exercise_v among_o they_o and_o so_o submit_v themselves_o thereunto_o but_o do_v not_o make_v any_o verbal_a profession_n thereof_o thus_o the_o people_n in_o the_o parish_n in_o england_n when_o there_o be_v a_o minister_n put_v upon_o they_o by_o the_o patron_n or_o bishop_n they_o constant_o hold_v they_o to_o the_o fellowship_n of_o the_o people_n in_o such_o a_o place_n attend_v all_o the_o ordinance_n there_o use_v and_o the_o dispensation_n of_o the_o minister_n so_o impose_v upon_o they_o etc._n etc._n by_o such_o action_n they_o declare_v that_o by_o their_o practice_n which_o other_o hold_v forth_o by_o public_a profession_n thus_o far_o mr._n hooker_n so_o mr._n norton_n resp_n ad_fw-la apollon_n p._n 22.28_o so_o the_o confession_n of_o church_n disc_n by_o the_o synod_n of_o new_a england_n 2_o you_o have_v a_o nationall_n covenant_n a_o solemn_a one_o i_o think_v it_o be_v strong_a enough_o if_o you_o