religion Secondly that they ought to doe this with an especiall regards and care Thirdely they perceyue and rightly vnderstande that it is Gods will they shoulde so doe Now since that this by master Stapletons déepe silence is agréed vpon betwixt the Bishop and him I make hereon this argument To order and set forth Gods true religion with especiall regarde and care is the Princes duetie But the only sort of gouernment that the Quéenes Maiestie doth chalenge and take vpon hiâ—… in ecclesiasticall causes is to order and set forth Gods true Religion with an especiall regarde and care Ergo Prinâ—… ought to take vpon them such gouernment as the Quéenes Maiestie doth claime and take vpon hir in ecclesiasticall causes And thus is the Bishops antecedent directly proued and so consequently the principall matter of M. Feck issue Nowe as the former part being the generall assertion to all the ensamples following is no whitte impeached by any aunswere of master Stap. to it but by silence whiche with him is an argument of confession graunted so like a very Counterblaster in déed he blusâ—…reth and puffeth at the seconde part as though he would all to blast it Moses sayth the Bishop was supreme gouernour ouer Gods people and was not chief priest or Bishop for that was Aaron Here master Stapleton denyeth not Moses to be the supreme gouernour but that he was not chiefe priest or Bishop he vtterly gainsayeth it It is an vntruth sayth he in his score for Moses was the chiefe priest as shall be prooued Here is a flat promise of proufe but I feare me it wil neuer be perfourmed neyther doth master Stapleton here go about the perfourmance of it And therefore the Bishops denial of Moses to be the chiefe Priest must stand for a truth till by prouing Moses to be the chiefe Priest he haue proued it to be an vntruth And in the meane time his promise must stande but for a crake as also his prowde entraâ—…nte into his Chapter That the Scripture by the Bishop alleaged reacheth nothing home but rather infringeth and plainely marreth the Bishoppes purpose and fullye standeth on our syde sayeth this student so greatly hath arrogancie sotted him He fareth as did the Souldiour who when his aduersarie had manye tymes in wrastling hurled him downe in the sighte of euerie stander by yet woulde hée neuer confesse that hée had anye fall yea most arrogantlye â–ª he styll affyrmed that hée had â—…ast the other And euen so playeth this student for this of wrastling is one of his common similitudes he contendeth to wrastle with the Bishoppe whiche is in verys déede as hée sayeth in this Chapter Impar congressus Achâ—…lls Troilus An vneuen matche betweene Troylus and Achilles What a number of â—…oule falles hée hath had yea howe hée hath béene ouerturned in hys â—…wne trippes is apparaunt to euery Readers eyes and goe no further but euen to hys last Chapter And yet sée howe hée craketh that all the Byshoppes allegations marre hys owne cause and fully stande on hys syde Where contraryewyse they haue drie beaten him backe bellie side and all And as hée thus fondely maketh vaunt of his former victorie â—…o I doubt nothing sayth he it will fare with his examples Well sayd of a student like an other Gawin he doubteth nothing But sée a sodaine qualme of hys inconstancie for euen streyght wayes after he hath cryed out all comes to shorâ—… he sayth but here am I shrewedly â—…ncombred and in a great doubt what to doe Whie master Stapleton are ye now so soone in a great doubt and right nowe as doeth bolde Bayarde doubted nothing and haue before alreadie without any stammering thereat clapped downe your marginall note for a full resolute aunswere that Moyses was the chiefe Priest and nowe doubt ye what to answere But master Stapleton hath so many weapons that he is shrewdly encombred with them as it were another armed Golias and yet one smal poebble stone will soone ease him of this encombrance He telles vs he hath so many aunsweres that he doubteth with which he should beginne for I could sayth he make a short but a true aunswere that these ensamples are fully aunswered alreadie by master D. Harding and master Dorman In déede master Stapleton this were a short aunswers but I sée your selfe feare as ye sayde before it woulde come to short and not reache home to the matter Yet say you if ye shoulde referre the Reader thither to his and your great ease it should be to the sparing not only of penne ynke and paper but of the time also which of all thinges is most precious It séemeth master Stapleton ye are a man of déepe casting these are good considerations of penne ynke paper and tyme. But whie followe ye not your owne councell whiche if ye had obserued and left out so many impertinent vagaries and other your trifling common places ye had saued more paper penne ynke and tyme by thrée halues than ye haue done And here as séeming full resolued to follow this aduise ye clappe downe another marginall note All master Hornes examples out of the olde Testament aunswered alreadie by master Doctour Harding and master Dorman Here sayth he is a shorte but a true aunswere To this shorte aunswere I aunswere againe All M. Doctor Hardings and M. Dormans answeres confuted alreadie by the B of Sarum and M. Nowell Here is another as short an answere as yours M. Stap. and a great deale truer whiche I remitte to the indifferent viewers of both their answeres Nowe might we both rest and breath vs from further answering of these ensamples and spare penue ynke paper and time also that he séemeth to accompt most precious But another thing was more precious vnto him and that was master Feckenhams hyre and his friendes largesse for so much Paper penne ynke and time spent about his booke and the gaine of the printed copies which the bigger volume it came vnto for he woulde not séeme a thréehalfepennie student the fatter exhibition it should yéelde and he séeme the greater clerke yea to go beyonde his masters And therefore there is no remedie he will spare neyther penne ynke paper time nor paynes also but that his Counterblast shall be blowne vp to so large and full a volume that it may encounter euen the best of theirs To whose answeres if he shoulde referre himselfe and saye no more thereto Then I feare me sayth he woulde steppe forth if not master Horne a good simple plaine man in his dealings yet some other ioly fine freshe pregnant wittie fellowe yea and bring me to the streightes which way so euer I did treade You are loath I perceiue master Stapleton to be brought into the streight way to treade aright therein for then your wrie treading woulde soone be espied But ye séeke crookes and shifting answeres for the nonce And lyke the vayne talkatiue Arrian Philosopher ye dispise the right reuerende and learned father calling
meanes was deliuered as also M. Crispine shuld haue ben but that death preuented him only M. Moreman stubbornly persisting in his errours remained still in the Tower. In this conference M. Feckenham promised to preache as the Bishop truly charged him Of which conference and promise there be yet many on lyue both worshipfull and honeste men to witnesse the same and proue you a lyer M. Stapleton so impudently to denie it You had nothing to say to the contrarie The. 32. vntruth more slaunderous as may wel appeare by this your booke It appéereth thereby right well in déede and shall further appéere that you also had not any greate thyng else to to saye to the contrarie neyther excepting these and suche lyke your brabbling common places For answere I say they ought to take vppon them such gouernment as doth the Quéens maiestie The. 23. vntruth employing a contradiction to youre former aunswere made to Mayster Feckenham as shall appeare The answere is here cited for an vntruthe but for triall it is referred to appeere in an other place on the other side of the leafe in the counterblast and there being cited also bicause nothing is proued but by M. Stapletons hearesay of an other contrarie answere the matter is there againe further deferred to be hearde an other daye when Maister Stapleton shall be occasioned to entreate more at large hereafter vpon the matter wher at the Calends of Gréece it shal be proued both an vntruth and to implie a contradiction The contradiction that he would enforce is betwéen a suborned answer forged to be made in the bishops name which he neuer made and this present answere which the B. maketh so that in déede there is no contradiction at al in his answere bicause the one of them is of their owne making not of his As for the vntruth of the Bishops answere standeth only on M. Stapletons bare saying that it is false and deceyuable And ye must wel weâ—…e that M. Stapl is of suche indifferencie and credence that he would not saye it on his worde if it were not so and therefore in any case ye must beléeue him or else ye marre his reckoning The. 34. 35. 36. 37. vntruths bicause they are the whole matter throughout the eight chapter wherwith he chargeth the Bishop in the answere to the chapter they are at â–ª large answered Besides a number of Master Stapletons vntruthes detected Moyses was not the chief priest or bishop The. 38. vntruth for Moyses was the chiefe Priest as shall be proued Howe this promise shall be proued or the Bishops saying improued to auoyde anticipations repetitons thou must resort to M. Stapletons proues and the answer thervnto The charge of chiefe gouernment ouer Gods people bothe in causes temporall and ecclesiasticall was committed to Iosue The 39. vntruth Iosue had not the supreme gouernement in Ecclesiasticall causes but Eleazarus had it Whether he had it that commaunded Eleazarus in ecclesiasticall matters or Eleazarus that obeyed his commaundement is easie to iudge And notwithstanding any thing that M. Stapleton bringeth beside his bare allegatioÌ„ Iosue had the supreme gouernement therin To Eleazar only belonged the administration of things belonging to the Priests office The. 40. vntruth For beside in all thinges to be doone of Iosue Eleazar should instruct him If this were beside the administration of things belonging to the Priestes office then to administer instruction in any thing vnto the Prince was not the Priests office For if it were belonging to his office why saye you it was beside being conteyned in it But sée your fonde reason the Bishop saith he had not the supreme gouernement but the administration of things belonging to his office yes say you he should instruct the Prince Ergo he had the supreme gouernment of him Neither had he say you that supreme gouernment as his office or belonging to him but besides and not belonging thervnto whyle the questioÌ„ is whether this supreme gouernement belong to the Priests office or to the â–ª Princes office but your self withal exclude it from the Priestes office And thus to nick vp on the score apace ye speak it séemeth ye can not wel tell what Dauid c. the supreme gouernour ouer all estates both of the laitie and of the clergie in all maneâ—… of causes The. 41. vntruth Dauid was not suprme gouernour in all maner causes but suffered the Leuites in Church matters to liue vnder the rule of their high Priest. As though these two might not bothe agrée verie wel togither except it were in such an vsurper as is your Pope As for the Quéenes Maiestie hir hyghnesse claymeth no suche Papaliâ—…ie but suffreth the inferiour ministers to liue vnder the rules of their superior Bishops yet hir supreme gouernment to ouersée that all of them obserue their rules in their vocations is no whit empaired Salomon deposed Abiathar The 42. vntruth for Salomon of his owne authoritie as your argument runneth deposed not Abiathar but executed only the sentence pronounced before by Samuel Gods minister Your selfe confesse the Bishops wordes M. Stapleton nor ye can for shame denie them the Scripture is plaine for them and therfore ye runne from them to the Bishops sense and say not his wordes but his meaning and argument is vntrue therein for he dyd it but not by his owne authoritie but executed Gods sentence as thoughe these were contradictorie to execute Gods sentence in doing it and to doo it by his owne authoritie when all authoritie of any Prince commeth likewyse from God and he is Gods minister and executer thereof and yet withall it is hys owne authoritie bicause the authoritie is giuen him of God thereto Althoughe herein chalenging the B. of one vntruthe ye vtter two vntruthe your self together on a clap First ye say he executed only the sentence pronounced before by Samuel Gods minister Where the texte that afterwarde ye cite fayth not so but to fulfill the wordes of the Lorde whiche he spake ouer the house of Hely in Silo which wordes of the Lorde we fynde out in thâ—… 2. and. 3. chapters of the first booke of the Kinges where the whole story is at large set out and deteâ—…s your falshoode The wordes that doe threaten Hely and his posteritie in the. 2. chapter were pronounced by a Prophet in déede but he is not named the text only sayth Venit auteÌ„ vir dei ad Hely ait ad eum haec dicit Dominus And there came a man of God to Hely and sayd vnto him thus sayth the Lorde c. This Prophet pronounced and was Gods minister therein among other things euen this deposition of Abiathar But this man of God was not Samuell who was at that time as yet but a childe The seconde time was in the next chapter by God him selfe that called Samuell thrée times and the
surmile vppon my silence any suche distrust ▪ I will compendiously as the matter shall require abbridge their aunsweres and that master Horne shall thinke that our stuffe is not all spent ▪ I shall on the other syde for a surplussage adioyne some other things to our opponent accomodate An Almonde for Parate so finely our student begins to speake that a good plaine simple man can scarce vnderstande his 〈◊〉 termes But this is the effect of it we shall now haue new stuffe of some olde store good stuffe and God will for all their stuffe as he crakes is not yet spent but I perceyue it goeth harde with them in their store house and that this stuffe is some of the last cast God sende it be not such stale stuffe when it comes to the view as Cardinall Campeius moiles did bring into Englande and vttered in Cheape side But such as it is we must take it in good worth it is the best he hath to answere the Bishops ensample withall The first ensample is of Moses in whome the Byshop noteth thrée things First that he was the supreme gouernour of Gods people Secondly that hée ordred and set forth Gods true Religion wyth great regarde and care prescribing aswell to Aaron and the Leuites as to the people Thirdly that he was not the chiefe priest therfore could not do them in suche respect but as he was supreme gouernour The first and the seconde propositions that Moses was the supreme gouernour and that he did order and direct all things M. St. graunteth The thirde parte he denieth and affirmeth that Moses was the chiefe priest and in that respecte dyd all these foresayde thinges This assertion he sayth he will proue bothe by his masters olde and by his owne surplusage of newe stuffe also His argument of both these stuffes is this I say with M. D. Harding and S. Augustine that Moses was a Priest aswell as a Prince I say the same with M. Dorman ▪ with Philo Iudeus with S. Hierome and with S. Hieroms master Gregorie Nazianzene Ergo Moses was the chiefe Priest. By the like reason if M. St. be a priest he might proue him selfe to be the Pope of Rome He is a Romish priest Ergo he is the chiefe Romish priest which is the pope The one reason is as good as the other But here he will cry out and say I do him wrong to change his conclusion for he inferreth no such words but these And so consequently Moses ensample serueth not your turne but quite ouerturneth your assertion True it is in déed this is your cōclusion M. St. but what was the bishops assertion which this ye say quite ouerturnes was not this his assertion that Moses was not the chiefe priest and did not you denie this assertion affirme it to be an vntruth saying for Moses was the chiefe priest as shal be proued did ye not héere make promise to proue it did ye not say that to answere this example ye had other freshe stuffe not yet spent must not then this stuffe be directed to this ende conclusion to fulfill your promise ouerturne the bishops assertion which was that Moses was not the chiefe priest but Aaron and you should proue as ye haue freshly promised that Moses was the chiefe priest And therfore if this be not your conclusion ye subtilly falsly swerue frō the cōclusion that ye ought to haue cōcluded ye performe not your promise to proue Moses the chiefe priest nor your conclusion as ye crake ouerturnes the byshops assertion which was that Moyses was not the chief priest but Aaron And therfore either this is your argument Moses was a Priest Ergo he was chiefe Priest or else ye conclude not agaynst the bishops assertion If ye say ye conclude this al the world séeth what a fonde conclusion it is And if ye haue a poleshorne priests crowne of your owne as I doubt not but ye haue a faire one ye may aswell conclude to your self the Popes triple crowne And if ye cōclude it not ye conclude not agaynst the bishop nor fulfill your promise for all your proues stande on this profe that Moses was a priest Nowe the question was not whether Moses was a priest or no which is another question in controuersie But the question is whether he or Aaron were the chiefe priest Yet will ye peraduenture say though I haue herein as ye haue proued swarued from the directe conclusion in hande that Moses was not the chiefe priest nor kepte my promise yea and made a scape in saying that I ouerturned the bishops assertion when I did not or if I went about it yet mine argument proued but a fonde reason from priest to chiefe priest yet in the ende I haue proued Moses a priest and so consequently it serueth not your turne vnlesse ye will king Henry the eight and his sonne king Edwarde yea our gratious Queene to be a priest to but rather quite ouerturneth your assertion and think you M. Horne that the Queenes authoritie doth iumpe agree with the authoritie of Moses in causes ecclesiasticall then may she preache to the people as Moses did then may she offer sacrifices as Moses did then may she consecrate priests as Moses did consecrate Aaron and others then may it be sayde of the imposition of handes as was sayde of Moyses Iosua the sonne of Nun was full of the spirite of wisdome for Moses had put his hande vpon him It must needes therefore followe that Moses was a priest and that a high priest whiche ye heere full peeuishly denie Where ye aske M. Stap. of the Byshop And thinke ye M. Horne that the Queenes authoritie do the iumpe agree with th' authoritie of Moses might not the byshop demaund agayne the like of you and thinke you ▪ M. Stap. that euen your Popes authoritie admitting it were not the vsurped tyrannie which it is dothe iumpe agree with the authoritie of Moyses yea admitting also that question that he was a Priest and so consequently agayne it serueth not your turne nor master D. Hardings nor master Dormans neither I am sure as ye confesse he was a priest so ye will admit a difference betwéene your Pope and him and euen so since ye reason thus precisely of differences in the persons ye ought also to haue made a difference betwéene Moyses his diuerse offices and to haue giuen either office his proper actions and so to haue applied them and not to haue confounded them admitting that he one person were both a Prince and a Priest also which hangs in controuersie for all your cited authors But you reason confusedly à secundum quid ad simpliciter Moyses by an especiall priuiledge was a Prieste as well as a Prince and thereby did preache offer sacrifice consecrate Aaron lay imposition of handes and did other offices of Priests and many extraordinary things besides Ergo Moses in that he was a Prince not a Priest in
olde testament the Prince was otherwise than in the foresayde respects inferiour to the Priest and people It remaineth sayth he that we proue the king of the Hebrue nation to haue ben lesse than his nation and his Bishop VVho shall bee a better iudge in this cause than euen God himselfe For he entreating of sacrifices for sinne committed by ignorance distinguisheth foure sortes of men For either the anoynted priest sinneth or the people or the Prince or the priuate person Of these foure sortes the anoynted Prieste helde the firste place the people of Israell the seconde place the Prince the third place the priuate man the last place If the Prieste that is anoynted shall haue sinned making the people to offende he shall offer for his sinne an vnspotted ' Bullocke without blemishe vnto the Lorde But if all the people of Israell shall haue doone of ignorance that whiche is contrarie to the commaundement of the Lorde and shall afterwarde vnderstande their sinne the people shall offer a Bullocke for their sinne If the Prince shall haue sinned and among many thinges shall doe ought by ignorance that is forbidden by the Lawe of the Lorde and shall afterwarde vnderstande his sinne he shall offer for an offering to the Lorde from among the she Goates an he Goate vnspotted But if any soule of the people of the lande shall haue sinned through ignorance hee shall offer a shee Goate vnspotted Loe foure sacrifices whereof the moste worthy is the Bullocke whiche is offered as well for the Prieste as for all the people The hee Goate is but of the nexte worthynesse the which the King offered Therefore euen as the Prince is prefered before the priuate man so al the people is preferred before the Prince but the anoynted Prieste is preferred before them both This argument is taken from the Sacrifices for sinnes in the olde Testament and is nothing pertayning to gouernment and therfore can infer no necessarie but wrested conclusion therevnto Nowe as this matter is nothing to the present purpose so his argumentes thereon argue the greater follie the more nicely he standeth on them He driueth thē to infer a superioritie by two reasons the one of the more worthy Sacrifice the other of the order placing the discription of these Sacrifices Of the Sacrifice he reasoneth on the more worthy beast as thus He that offered the more worthy beast was the more worthy in authoritie But the highe Prieste and the people offered a more worthe beaste than dyd the Prince Ergo the highe Priest and the people were more worthy in authoritie than the Prince The Maior he taketh for graunted after his manner ▪ The Minor he proueth thus A Bullocke is a more worthie beast than a Goate But the highe Priest and the people offered a Bullocke the Prince but a Goate Ergo they offered a more worthie beaste I aunswere to this worthy if not rather beastly argument made from a Bullocke as I remember once a Papiste sayde in Cambridge of a righte worthie Doctor of hys owne Popishe Church his name quoth he is Doctor Bullocke but per contractionem it maye be Doctor Blocke and so this is a Bullockishe argument but per contractionem it is a very blockishe argument and farre more fitte for Doctour Bullock thā for Doctor Sanders to haue made except that he be made Bullatus Doctor I graunt there was great differences to be obserued in the thinges offered howe beit the worthynesse of the Sacrifice laye not in the things offered but euery Sacrifice had this or that kynd of matter appointed to be offered as the wisdome of God thoughte fittest to expresse the nature of that sinne or propitiation whereof it was a Sacrifice A Lyon is counted a more worthy beast than a Bullocke and yet was it counted an vncleane beast In the second chapter going before this alledged God saith of flower and Corne offered which is not so worthy a thing as is a beast it is the most holy of the offerings of the Lorde made by fire In the thirde Chapter he saithe if he offer a Lambe for his oblation and afterwarde he sayth and if his offerings be a Goate A Goate is a more worthy beast than Lambe But what shall we conclude hereon for the more worthynesse of the Persons authoritie that offered all these and other more different things But nowe if a Bullocke be the moste worthy beast dyd not many Kings many times offer many Bullockes Did not also the high Priests offer other things for themselues besides bullockes in the. 8. chapter of Leuit. a bullocke and ◅ ram was offered for Aaron and his sonnes but here the bullocke is still placed before the ram as a more worthie beast by maister Saunders reason But in the ninth chapter he sayth And in the. 8. daye Moyses called Aaron and his sonnes and the elders of Israel and then he said to Aaron take thee a yong calfe for a sinne offering and a ram for a burnte offering both without blemishe and bring them before the Lorde and vnto the Children of Israel saying take ye an hee Goate for a sinne offering and a Calfe and a Lambe both of a yeare olde without blemishe for a burnt offering also a Bullocke and a ram for a peace offering here is a yong calfe preferred before a bullocke for the Priests sin offering and a ram before a Calfe yea a bullocke and a ram for the people and but a yong calfe and a ram for the high Priest and so the people by this reason shoulde be more worthie than the high Priest and equall at the least they are made euen in this place that M. Saunders so narrowly examineth for the Priest and the people offer a bullocke both of them Now if the dignitie of the beast sacrificed will not inferre the dignitie of the man offering the sacrifice yet wil master Saunders enforce his argument furder from the dignitie of the place in the order of naming eche persons sacrifyce as thus He that is former placed is former in dignitie and hee that is placed later is inferior in dignitie But the priest annointed held the first place the people of Israel the second place the Prince the thirde place the priuate man the last place Ergo the Prince is inferior in dignitie to the Priest and the people and onely superior to the priuate man. I answere this is as meane if not a worser argumente than the other from the former place in recitall to the former place in dignitie Maister Saunders owne order of his booke in this selfe same treatise confuteth himselfe In hys firste booke he examineth the peoples authoritie In his seconde booke the Princes authoritie in his thirde booke the Priests authoritie shall wee v◅gehim herevpon that he ment to giue the people superior authoritie to Princes and Princes superior authoritie vnto Priests he will saye be ment it not
that he exercised ordinary gouernment ouer priests and all ecclesiastical persons and causes as other Princes did after him â–ª is not to be broughte for example for our christian princes to follow This is the plaine full effect of your tale And what an ilfauorde argument is this I pray you but to hide this sequele after your fashion ye would inserre another yet more darke conclusion saying It must needes therfore follow that Moses was a priest that a high priest which ye heere full peenishly denie Doth this conclusion M. Stap. if it were admitted improue the Byshops assertion and yet this your conclusion standing on thrée partes as it is not to the purpose so is euery parte starke false and like the maker thereof For Moses by his prerogatiue hauing especiall coÌ„maundement of God therto might well do all those things and yet it followeth not of any necessitie that as you say he must néedes therfore haue bene a priest Or if he had bene a priest he must néedes therefore be a high priest or if he had bene a high priest that he must néedes be the highest priest Neither did the byshop denie peeuishly that he denied as you full peeuishly rashely and like your selfe do iudge nor yet denied or graunted or spoke vpon one way or other whether Moses were priest or a high priest yea or no. But denied and that truely that Moses was not the highest or chiefe priest Which words ye durst not alleage nor yet generally terme him the high priest but ye say a priest and that a high priest your selfe séeming euen by your spéeche to graunt that the high priest or highest priest he was not Nor ye can not cauill about your owne phrase vnlesse ye will say it is all one a Lorde and the Lorde a high priest and the high priest so say ye ment the chiefe priest when ye sayd a high priest for all the worlde séeth a great difference betwéene these termes and that your self did subtilly sée to make the reader beléeue ye had performed your promise in prouing him to be the chiefe priest And yet ye bring no profe but onely say a priest and that a high priest â—…go the highest priest So that if the reader more narroâ—…ly viewing your grosse sleight shoulde chalenge ye that you haue not proued him the highest priest simply no will ye say to saue your honestie I onely sayde a priest and a high Priest and no more But why do ye then belie the byshop saying he denied that that he medled not with and proue not your matter in hande nor kéepe touch with your reader in perfourming your promise that Moses was the chiefe Priest Haue ye learned so wel this subtill shift that Omne promissum est aut debitum aut dubium Euery promise is eyther due or doubtfull But howsoeuer ye will discharge your promise this your doutfull conclusion neither dischargeth your falshood nor impugneth the Bishoppes assertion muche lesse ouerturnes it that he was not the chiefe priest but the chiefe Prince or gouernoure and thereby did order and direct Gods true religion bothe to all the Priestes and people as the Bishop affirmed Nowe seeing he can by no meanes neyther olde stuffe nor newe stuffe bring it about as he wold haue it nor proue him to be the highest Priest he will leaue his promise and lyke to the Fore that would eate no Grapes when he could not come by them with all the leapes he coulde make so M. Sta. will nowe euen renounce his solemne marginall crake that he promised to proue Moyses the chiefe prieste and leaping at it but euer leaping shorte that he was a Priest and a little higher that he was a highe Priest but he can not leape so high to obtaine his purpose that he was the highest Priest he will now let him goe for béeing any Priest at all and since he can not get the grape he wil none of it but will hunt after an other praie I say now further with master Dorman sayth he that put the case Moses were no priest yet this exaÌ„ple frameth not so smoothly and closely to your purpose as ye weene for Moses was a prophet and that such a prophetas the like was not againe Giue me now M. Horne Princes prophetes giue mee Pâ—…nces and lawmakers by especiall order and appointement ordeined of God to whose wordes God certainly wold haue giuen as great authoritie as he would and commaunded to be giuen to Moses and then perchaunce I will saye that ye saye somewhat well to the purpose Againe Moyses was suche a speciall Prophete and so singularly chosen of God to bee hearde and obeyed in all thinges that he is in the holy Scripture euidently compared to Christe himselfe compared I saye in the office of teachyng and instructing Moyses in the Deuteronom foretelling the Iewes of a Messias to come sayeth The Lorde thy God will rayse thee vp a Prophete from among thyne owne nation and of thy brethren suche an one as my selfe him thou shalt heare And this so spoken of Moyses in the olde Lawe is in the nevve Testament auouched and repeated firste by S. Peter the chiefe apostle and nexte by Saint Stephan the firste martyr and applyed to Chryste If then Christe must be so heard and obeyed of vs as was Moyses of the Ievves no doubte as Christe is a king a Prince a Prophete a Prieste and a Bishoppe to vs so vvas Moyses to them a Prince a Prophete a Priest and a Bishoppe As Christe is of vs to bee hearde and obeyed as well in all matters Ecclesiasticall as temporall for no temporall lawe can haue force agaynste the lawe of Christe among Christian men so vvas Moyses to be hearde and obeyed of the Ievves in matters and causes as vvell temporall as spirituall For vvhy the Scripture is playne Tanquam meipsum audietis You shall heare that Prophete euen as my selfe Shevve vs Master Horne any prince in the nevve Testamente so conditioned and endevved and then make your argumente on Gods name Verely any prince that novve is namely in Ecclesiasticall gouernement compared vvyth Moyses is as the Poete sayth Impar congressus Achilli Troilus Yea forsoothe novve yee saye somethyng further Maister Stapleton as ye boaste howbeâ—…it nothyng further in substaunce than youre fellowes before but in flourish of Copia verborum yee saye novve further in déede And I maye saye to you it was high tyme to saye something furtherâ—… for hytherto all that ye haue sayde is nothyng Well saye you nowe Put the case Moyses were no Prieste I conclude then he was not hyghe Prieste and so putting this case yée put youre selfe in an yll case that before ye made a false lying crake and nowe with shame are fayne to giue it ouer But if ye put the case as ye say like Master Dorman then dare ye not abide by this case neither lyke Wylliam Sommer for so playde Master Dorman in putting this case
soone be espyed And that in swaruing from the hearing and obeying of the olde lawe of Moyses and the Gospell of Christe to all proportions of these peâ—…ons offices would be but an homely sequele to serue your â—…urpose and rather abase Christe than serue any thyng for Moyses to make him a Priest and a Bishop And where you make Chryste a fygure of Moyses to make Moyses also a Priest and a Bishoppe bycause Chryste is so the texte maketh a similitude from Moyses to Chryst onely in eyther béeing a Prophete and that the one Prophete and the other shoulde be heard and obeyed But you turne it topsie turuie and making Christes person represente Moyses person conclude thereon not onely Prophete but Priest and Bishop also which the texte citeth not nor any other mentioneth in the scripture that Moyses was priest and Bishop Nor the Priesthood of Christe was prefigured by Moyses priesthoode for that is a question whether Moyses were Priest at all or no but the Scripture expressely for Christes priesthoode testifyeth that Aarons Priesthoode in some respectes but chiefly Melchisâ—…decks were the onely fygures thereof and not any Priesthood of Moyses and therefore your selfe durste not flatly conclude before that hee was the chiefe Prieste but a highe Priest But dare ye saye the lyke of Christe he was a hyghe Priest but not the chiefe or hyghest Priest of all But when ye sawe a glimse that this inuersed argument could not proue Moyses to be a lyke Priest to Christ nor bishoppe at al nor that his béeing a Prophete tooke awaye the ensample of his Princely authoritie as ye did the residue so ye subtilly inuerte and folde vp the conclusion For where it shoulde haue falne out thus As Christe is of vs to hee hearde and obeyed as vvell in all matters Ecclesiasticall as temporall so vvas Moyses to bee hearde and obeyed of the Iewes in all matters and causes as well spirituall as temporall whiche were the playn conclusion yée come indreaming and saye in matters and causes as vvell temporall as spirituall as thoughe the â—…uestion were moued of temporall not of spirituall matters â–ª neither dare ye say all as ye did in the former part But if ye replie that ye ment all and so the proportion of your argument runneth and that I do ye wrong to charge ye with so lighte a matter since the indefinite is taken for the vniuersall maye not I replie agayne that ye doe the Bishop muche more treble wrong that so often call and make suche outcryes for thys syllable all when soeuer he concludes In matters so wel ecclesiastical as temporall Lo say you he leaueth out in all matters Ecclesiast and temporall Whiche althoughe it were no parte of his issue with M. Feckenham and yet he settes it downe oftener than ye woulde haue it though he be not in euery particular proofe bounde thereto yet sée howe thys hitteth your selfe that if ye leaue out this word All ye can make no good conclusion from Christe to Moyses at all Nowe when you haue thus Master Stapleton preferred Moyses before Christe ye crie out vnto the Bishoppe Shewe vs Master Horne any Prince in the newe Testamente so conditioned and endued and then make youre argument on Gods name Haue you made your argument on Gods name M. Stapleton or not rather in his name that exalteth himselfe aboue all that is called God when ye haue made the mayster serue as a fygure to the seruaunte to serue youre purpose But lette Moyses haue hys due estymation vnder Christe and hys especiall prefiguryng of Chryste also and all prerogatiues of dooyng any thyng for the tyme then by Gods especiall appoyntmente that Princes nowe can not doe Yet on Gods name maye anye man argue as the Bishoppe dyd that Moyses care and regarde béeyng the Prince of the Israelites in settyng foorthe and ryghtely orderyng Gods true religion then maye and is and oughte to be a paterne to all Christian Princes to care and regarde in setting foorth and rightely ordering Gods true religion nowe And what though in this coÌ„parison although in déed iâ—… be no comparison as you call it but an example any christian Prince that now is compared with Moyses be Impar congressus Achilli Troilus as vneuen a match as Troilus to contende with Achilles may not therefore a christian Prince followe Moses examples Why bring ye that Poets sentence M. St what Prince goeth about to coÌ„pare contend with Moyses and not rather submit them selues to his example heerein Ye slaunder christian Princes ye deface Christes glory ye belye Moyses ye skippe from Priest to Prophet from Prophet to Priest agayne to delude the bishops ensample and yet all this will not frame neither smoothly nor roughly to your purpose Whiche when ye perceiue leauing all these shifts of descant to infringe the authoritie of this first example that vrgeth you so sore that ye can not tell what to say vnto it but are driuen to the harde wall and that all store olde stuffe and new stuffe is cleane spent then as a desperate man ye quite denie all examples either of Moyses or of any that hereafter shall be alleaged and â—…ée for sanctuarie once agayne to the place of the Deuteronomie mentioned in the former diuision of the doubts arising betweene bloud and bloud plea and plea leprie and leprie to be determined by the priestes Iudge And héere clayming sanctuarie and remouing al examples And the lawier sayth say you legibus non exemplis iudicatur VVe muste iudge according to the precise rule of the lawe and not by examples extraordinary doings enforce no ordinary prescription or rule The ordinary rule of priests iudgements without whyes and what 's and suche other tryfling importune instances as ye are wont to make agaynst it by the lawe of Moyses and by your owne chapter before alleaged in doubtfull cases muste absolutely vpon payne of death be obeyed By this rule of the lawe you must measure all the examples following of kinges and princes vnder this laâ—…e Ye muste square your examples to the rule and not the rule to the examples vnlesse ye will make of the lawe of God Lesbiam regulam and bothe vnskilfully and vnorderly worke therwith And hereon as a ruled case ye set downe your marginall iudgement Men must iudge by lawe and not by examples If ye will not M. St. be iudged by examples wherefore do ye take vpon you to defende M. Feckenham and impugne the byshop For one of the foure meanes whereby he desireth to haue his issue proued and will be iudged by is practise which altogither ye wot standeth of examples and therfore the byshop proueth it by examples And if you will now flée from the authoritie of examples ye should at the beginning haue striken off one of those foure meanes to haue the issue proued by and not first to admit them and â—…id the byshop go on and say ye will yeelde also if he proue ought by
ouer the Reubenites and the Gadites and the halfe of the tribe of Manasses for euery matter perteyning to God and for the kings businesse that is to say both in spirituall and temporall things And also a little aboue In all the businesse of the Lorde and for the seruice of the King. Howbeit I speake not this so much to proue King Dauids supremacie ouer the Porters in all and euery ecclesiasticall matter so well as temporall but chiefly to followe your shift of the Prophetes For here we sée howe expresly the Prophets also were appoynted their orders by the king and euen the principall fathers of them attendant vnto him as their children were to them And thoughe theyr children were vnder theyr gouernmentes as were the inferiour Priestes vnder the higher Priestes yet as Asaph Heman and Iduthim were vnder the gouernment of the King also who ordered directed appoynted and coÌ„maunded them so was Aaron and his successors the high priests vnder the appointment and order of the King for all that their sonnes and inferior priests were vnderneath their gouernment For the one gouernment doth not exclude the other as master Stapleton himselfe confesseth that in one man many rulers may and do dayly concurre which in some sense may euery one be called his supreme gouernour And thus was first God by the ministerie of his priestes and prophetes the absolute supreme gouernour vnto Dauid So was Dauid next vnder God by his ouersight ordering and commaunding those ecclesiasticall actions to be rightly done the supreme gouernour not onely to the Leuits and Porters but to the chiefe Priestes to the chiefe Prophets and all And so were the chiefe priestes and principall Prophets in their functions and ministeries of theyr offices the supreme gouernors ouer their inferior priests prophets and yet was not their gouernment embarring the kings nor the kings any whit preiudicial to theirs For the priestes and the prophets did the action but the coÌ„maundements the appointing ordring was the kings next to god who coÌ„maunded them to him â—…e to the priests prophets And this order should M. St. haue séene had he but read the next sentence before the text that he vrgeth Secundum dispositioneÌ„ Dauid regis Gad videÌ„tu regis c. According to the commaundement or disposition of Dauid the king of Gad the kings Seer of visions and Nathan the prophet c. Thus the prince euen in those thingâ—… that god coÌ„maundeth by the hand of the prophets is chéef for his authoritie vnder god Next to whom are adioyâ—…ed the Prophets or learned preachers or ministers of Gods worde as by whose mouth or hande God commaundeth it to be done and haue mosts skill thereof And yet that both priest prophet do their offices faithfully apperteyneth to the kings coÌ„mauÌ„dement appéereth further throughout this chap. as also in Ezechias ensample froÌ„ whence be takes this seÌ„tence as we shall sée wheÌ„ we come therto Onely thus much to detect the shifts that M. St. maketh stil leaping from priest to prophet froÌ„ prophet again to priest as it were a squirrel skipping froÌ„ one trée to another to saue hir froÌ„ the birdbolt but all wil not be nothing wil any thing serue his turne but euery thing maketh quite against him which wheÌ„ he séeth as it were to set an Oliuer agaynst a Rowlande he alleageth agaynst king Dauids eusample the ensample of Carolus Magnus Againe saith he the like might you haue alleaged of Carolus Magnus that he corrected most diligently the order of reading and singing in the church that he brought first into Frauâ—…ce caâ—…tum GregorianuÌ„ the order of singing lefte by S. Gregorie at Rome and appoynted singers therfore when they did not well placed other in their rowmes And many such other like matters of the church wherin that godly Emperour much busied him selfe and yet exercised no supreme gouernment ouer the clergie but was of all other Princes most far froÌ„ it as it may easily appeare to him that wil read in the decrees dist 19. in memoriam where he protesteth obedience to the Sea of Rome yea though an importable charge should be layde vpon him by that holy Sea. Ye haue picked out an vnlike vneuen match M. St. to compare herein the doings of king Dauid with K. Charlemaines Where is become your Impar congressus Achilli Troilus the vnequall matche betwene Troilus and Achilles Howe corrupte the tyme of king Charlemayne was and what practises and fetches your Pope vsed to get the crowne of Fraunce to Pepin his father from the right and lawful prince therof and the Empire of Rome to Charlemayne froÌ„ the Emperour of Constantinople to whoÌ„ it dyd belong euery hiltoriographer can tel may fitter be declared in his proper place than here to leape ouer the stile ere ye come at it by many an hundreth miles yet for hast ye breake your shinnes euen agaynst those things that as trifles ye recken vp vnto vs As the correcting most diligently the order of reading and singing in the Church the placing and displacing singers if he did these things as a godly Emperor as ye say then he tooke it that as Emperor he had a gouernment in them But ye say as a godly Emperor he much busied him selfe If he found him self busines like a busie body wherin he had no authoritie thus so place displace to institute order and correct how was he a godly Emperour therin or not rather as ye sayd before played Oza his part But ye say he was therein a godly Emperour therefore he did nothing of any buâ—…iositie but of his owne authoritie and supreme gouernment therein Well yet say you it was but in singing and ouer singers Was it no further M. Stapleton howe then do you say the like you might haue alleaged of Carolus Magnus to King Dauids doings Did King Dauid meddle onely with singing and singers Did he not meddle with Priestes and Prophetes also But to salue the matter ye say and many other suche like matters of the Church Whie tell ye not man what those many other matters were haue ye no lust to declare them for feare they would marre your market Well let them alone till we come to the proper examination of them Howbeit whatsoeuer they shall fall out to be here remember ye liken them to King Dauids doings But King Dauid commaunded and appoynted singers Priests Prophetes all the clergie high and lowe of what degrée so euer Ergo King Charlemaines authoritie stretched further than to singing men euen to all Priestes Prophetes and all the clergie besides And thus eyther your similitude is not like or else the one and the other maketh cleane against you But if these doings of Charlemaine be not like yet hath master Stapleton another proufe in store Also in the decrees 11. Q. 1. which Iuo also alleageth where he renueth out of the Code of Theodosius a lawe binding all his subiects
But followeth it thereon that they agnised him to bee their supreme heade or gouernour This woulde require to bée prooued with some better Logycke As for these examples argue all the contrary that though the Prinâ—…s agnised alway one to be the chiefe Priest and also agnised all other inferiour Priestes Leuites Porters Singers in theyr offices yet all those highe and lowe whatsoeuer acknowledged agayne the supreme gouernement of commaunding appoynting ordring directing and ouerseeing them to doe all their duties dutifully to appertayne not to themselues but to theyr soueraigne Princes And the Princes as theyr seuerall examples witnesse tooke it vppon them in commaunding appoynting placing and displacing all and euery one yea the highest Priest himselfe And therefore where ye say to the Bishop I pray you good M. Horne bring forth that king that did not agnise one supreme heade and chiefe iudge in all causes ecclesiasticall among the Iewes I meane the highe Priest wherein lyeth all our chiefe question Yee haue not yet done it nor neuer shall doe it And ye coulde shewe anie it were not worth the shewing For ye shoulde not shewe it in anie good King as beeing an open breache of Gods lawe giuen to him by Moses as this your doings are an open breache of Christ and his Churches lawe and giuen to vs in the newe Testament These be but your crakes and outfacings master Stapleton The Bishop hath done it euidently that ye require and the scripture is manifest in all these Kings ensamples Nor they were any wicked Kings nor breakers of Gods law giuen by Moses or any other But euen Moses and all the rest were mainteiners of Gods law giuen to them and therfore are worth the shewing Your conclusion that our doings are an open breache of Christ and his Churches lawe giuen to vs in the new Testament I maye well ouerpasse without aunswere dismissing it to your common place of slaunders not onely of vs but of Christ and his Churche and his newe Testament also till ye shewe in what place of the newe Testiment Christ and his Church whom ye ioyne togither in this law making did make and giue vs this law that either our godly Christian Princes should not haue this supreme gouernment ouer their dominions or that your Pope should haue it ouer all the vniuersall Churche And when ye haue proued this proue also this your first new marke to be the verie state and issue here in question betwene the Bishop and master Feckenham or else agnise with shame your selfe that ye runne at randon loosely and altogither vnfruitfully haue employed yours and your Readers labour for all so lyke a Faulconer ye crie marke marke neuer so muche Your first false marke béeing thus reared vppe yée sette vppe a seconde muche lesse lyke the issue betwéene them but much more lyke the malicious slaunders among you saying Againe what president haue ye shewed of any good King among the Iewes that with his laitie altered and abandoned the vsuall Religion a thousande yeares and vpwarde customably from age to age receyued and embraced and that the high Priest and the whole clergie gainsaying all such alterations If ye haue not shewed this ye haue strayed farre from the marke Whether this be the marke or no or whether maister Stapleton of purpose straggle from it the conference of the issue wyth this will soone declare there is no néede to fette the highe Priestes iudgement as in a doubtfull matter Euery childe maye sée not onely howe farre they differ but also what an heape of slaunders on a plumpe he burdeneth like an vngracious subiect his most gracious soueraigne withall As for the Quéenes Maiesties most godly doings are very well confirmed by these examples And in proufe thereof the Bishop euer kept him closely to hys marke that the supreme gouernment which hir Maiestie taketh on hir is none other but such as they before did take on them Hir highnesse hath abandoned olde inueterate errors crept in besides and contrary to the worde of God she saw the ensample in these godly Kings before hir whose doings therein she followed Hir highnesse hath by the aduice and instruction of hir godly learned Clergie reformed religion according to Gods word although the Popish clergie were negligent and gainesayde the same she sawe the ensample in these kings before hir how by their godly learned prophets aduice and instructions according to Gods word they reformed religion although the Priests Leuits were negligent or withstood the same And this hitteth home the marke Any such gouernment syth both their supreme gouernments be so like And therfore in that you charge hir maiestie otherwise is nothing â—…eare the marke but is your owne reprochfull and very trayterouâ—… slaunder The ioly number of a thousande yeares and vpwarde of your vsuall religion is but your common vaunte and what if I sayde your outfacing lie also to deceyue the simple with a countenance of antiquitie the noueltie and late hatching whereof is dayly the more ye striue the more discouered to be nothing so auncient as ye pretende of a thousande yeares and vpwarde Of which number the most part the originals béeing well boulted out may come backe againe halfe a thousande yeares and more downwarde with shame ynoughe But I sée master Stapleton ye haue hoysted vp your Religion so hie that it staggreth againe and higher for falling downeright ye can not get it It hath béene ye say the vsuall Religion a thousande yeares and vpwarde that is a fayre tyme master Stapleton God saue it But what meane ye by this indefinite terme vpwarde Meane you it hath continued a thousande yeares and a little more Alacke Master Stapleton I am sorie for it and for your paynes taking till your armes ake to lyft it vp so highe and yet it commes too too short to be any true Religion For if it be the true Religion of Iesus Christe whie say yee not boldely man it is the vsuall Religion of fifteene hundreth yeares and vpwarde But eyther your armes are too shorte or your heart fayles you to lifte it vpwarde so highe for then the worde of GOD woulde soone controll you and beate it downe agayne And therefore you are contente with a lower sayle to crake that your Religion is yet a thousande yeares olde and vpwarde But as that is a false crake so is it also a vayne crake and serues not the turne yea admitting it were so old as ye boast 1000 â–ª yeares and vpward yet ought it of all godly Princes to be remooued and pulled downe againe except it be the Religion of fiftene hundreth yeares and vpwarde Eâ—…amsi Angelus docuerit aliud Euangelium quà m quod accepistis anaâ—…hema sit Althoughe an Aungell from heauen should teache any other doctrine than you haue receyued let him be accursed The Religion that the Quéenes Maiestie hath set forth thankes be to God therefore is the religion of 1500. yeares and vpward
or no. Now ye may conclude sayth master Stapleton that there is some regiment that Princes may take vpon them in causes Ecclesiasticall Thankes be giuen to God master Stapleton that yet now at the length contrary to all your felowes to all your owne wranglings hitherto the force of the truth hath enforced you to yelde thus much to the B. ye graunt Now that Princes haue some regiment in ecclesiasticall causes which hitherto except the making a law of burning or punishing be an eccl. cause ye haue altogither denied vnto Princes But what is this some regiment that ye graunt theÌ„ now for neither we graunt them al regiment but some regiment also that is to say a supreme regiment And you also denie not in your marginall note that they may take vpon theÌ„ in ecclesiastical matters supreme gouernmeÌ„t authority power care but not say you such supreme gouernment as the othe prescribeth so that here we both agrée of supreme gouernment but the kinde of supreme gouernment is denied And to specifie your meaning herein how large a kind ye graunt or denie ye adde he should haue concluded in all things and causes else he concludeth not agaynst you signifying that you deny to them a supreme gouernment in all things causes ecclesiastical but ye graunt them a supreme gouernment authoritie power and care in things and causes ecclesiasticall First M. Stap. this is but a iangling and shifting quarell in wordes about things and causes ecclesiasticall and all things and causes ecclesiasticall For not onely the Bishop when he speaketh so indefinitely vnderstandeth all but also it is an ordinarie speach allowed in Logike in all things that be naturall or necessarie where the indefinite is counted as much as the vniuersall As to say a man is a reasonable creature or man is mortall is as much as precisely to say all men and euery man is reasonable and mortall And the saying in the next diuision he came to fulfill the lawe and the Prophetes is all one with this he came to fulfill all the lawe and all the Prophetes And likewise this giue vnto God that belongeth to God and to Caesar that belongeth to Caesar is as much to say as this giue vnto God all that belongeth to God c. and euen your selfe doe commonly speake thus indefinitely ecclesiasticall matters when ye meane all ecclesiasticall matters though now when ye be thus â—…iuen to graunt the effect of the matter yet would ye find some shift of descant to frustrate all the matter and say If ye meane of such regiment as ye preteÌ„d where ye know well ynough none other is ment ye make your reckoning without your host as a man may say and conclude before ye haue brought any proufe that they ought or may take vpon them such gouernment Whether this some regiment be such regimeÌ„t or such gouernment for thus M. St. ye loue in termes to dally though the Bishop hath proued it sufficiently and you haue graunted it standing onely like a daintie Nicie besetter on this quaint poynt in things not in all things yea whether this Nice restraint defeate the full proufe of the question in controuersie betwene master Feckenham and the Bishop shal appeare M. St. by calling them â—…ath coram to recken better with their host that is as you haue like a thriftie tapster called vpon so oft before though still ye brought in false reckonings to set before them and mark the issue that they condiscended vpon that is to weâ—…e Any such gouernmeÌ„t in ecclesiastical causes Lo here the demaund of the hoste himselfe be requireth but any such gouernmeÌ„t and that without putting in all in the reckoning Where therfore ye grauÌ„t the B. hath proued it in some eccl. causes which satisfieth the demaund of any ecclesiast causes euen according to your owne wrangling ye confesse the Bishop hath concluded the very issue that was concluded vpon Thus master St. euen by your owne reckoning the B reckoned with his host at the full and hath payed and satisfied that he promised and M. Feckenham required But nowe looke you what reckoning you will make to your friendes that haue here brought your selfe so farre in the lashe that taking vpon you to impugne the Princes gouernment in ecclesiasticall causes ye haue graunted and yelded to it How will your credite holde with your friends yea how will your reckoning hold with it self here ye haue grauÌ„ted some regimeÌ„t yea supreme gouernment though not such supreme gouernment in ecclesiasticall causes In the last Chap. ye would graunt theÌ„ nothing but punishment of those whom you had condemned which is no ecclesiastical matter at all to hang or burne a man And yet ye gaue them no regiment much lesse supreme regiment therein neyther For you would haue al the appointing whoÌ„ he shal punish the prince hath nothing else to do but to execute him whom you deliuer vp vnto him which agréeth nothing with this that now ye haue grauÌ„ted least of all with that ye further grauÌ„t saying For though I graunt you all your examples ye haue alleaged and that the doings of the olde Testament were figures of the new and the saying of Esay that kings should be nourishing fathers to the Church and all things else that ye here alleage yet all will not reach home no not Constantine the great his example How agréeth this graunt master Stap. with all that ye haue done all this while Why haue ye denied the Bishops ensamples heretofore of Moyses Iosue Dauid c. and made such a long and earnest a do in the matter to be grauÌ„ted at length Did ye stand in it then to dilate your booke or do ye graunt it now to bragge of your skill or did ye resist the truth then contrary to your conscience repent ye now or be ye forced to grauÌ„t with some colour that ye cannot for shame in plaine speach denie howsoeuer it be many odde reckonings will fall out in your account against your selfe although you neuer â—…ecken with your host for the matter Ye graunt the saying of Esay also that Kings shoulde be nourishing fathers to the Church and all things else that the Bishop here alleageth yet will not all reach home no not Constantine the great his example VVill not all this reach home Master Stap. to proue the issue that euen your selfe do confesse the Bishop hath alreadie proued For that is the home that it ought tâ—… reach vnto by master Feckenhams demaund But go to measure it with a true yerde master Stap. and ye shall see it fayre and easily without any stretching at al reach euen as full home as you besides can require euen for the supreme gouernment of all maner ecclesiasticall causes looke what ye recken most vppon and that is euen the féeding with the worde vnder which the Sacraments also are comprehended not that he is the Minister of the worde and Sacraments as
the kings'gouernmeÌ„t vntil Saul came Ergo kings gouerne theÌ„ not in that they are meÌ„bers of Christ. Is all your drift come to this M. Saunders to run from the matter to the name of kings what if neither the name nor estate of kings were before the time of Saul was not the people of God alwayes gouerned euen froÌ„ the beginning with a ciuil or politike Magistrate cal him King or Prince or Patriark or Duke or Iudge or what you will do you inueygh here onely againste Kings is it the name of King that you beare such spite vnto to call it but a fleshly power as though Sathan hadeuen fleshed you against kings For what more grosse or bestiall name can you giue the gouernment of the Turkes infidels than here you terme the power persons of ChristiaÌ„ kings but al these argumeÌ„ts are false M. Saund. the Church of Christ neuer wanted magistrats the magistrates were not only themselues if they were good the members of Christ although they had a fleshly part the old man in theÌ„ as euen the pastors haue also but they had a speciall charge and regard to their subiects eueÌ„ in that they were meÌ„bers of Christ. Not that they toke vpon them the office of spirituall pastors to preach gods word vnto theÌ„ administer the sacraments except som of them were such persons as might not only ouersée it done of others but might or ought theÌ„selues to do it as all the Patriarches ordinarilye till Aarons time and some of the Priests and Prophets extraordinarily and very seldome afterwardes chosen therevnto but this was the duetie of all the Magistrates which all the good Princes did principallie looke vnto howsoeuer other did neglecte or abuse the same This therefore Maister Saunders is a foule sclaunder to speake so lewdly on Christian Princes and also a contradiction to your former saying that theyr estate was spirituall Yea howe doth this agree with your words next following VVherefore say you sith Kings and pastours do now come together into one body of the Church and the powers of theÌ„ before distinguished oughte nowe to serue one Christe to wit eyther of them in their place and order but most certaine it is that the spirituall power which is instituted for the church is knit more nerer with Christe than the power of earthlye Kings which is appoynted to defende men in earthly peace not onely within but also without the Churche of Christe I see not but that he hath loste his common sense in iudging gods matters if any man contende that the spirituall power of the Church is not aboue the earthly power of Kings â–ª What soeuer you see or see not M. Saunders I see you haue a great conceite of your selfe that thus in your conclusion almost of euery argumente you make all men fooles doltes and madde and out of their wits and to want reason common sense and to be no better than beasts if they denie that that you affirme Whether it come of the contempte of others or of the pride of your selfe that makes you to vse these speaches so often let other wiser Iudge for we are fooles and madde men in your opinion But if you be not blinde in your owne conceite doe you not see what contraries still you vtter to make the Princes power â—…oth fleshely and spirituall to stretch to furder endes than bodily peace yet to stretch no furder but these are your olde contradictions You tell vs of a superioritie and a superioritie we haue graunted Neither haue we so loste our common sense but that we see your false packing in charging vs to contende that the spirituall power of the Churche is not aboue the earthly power of Princes For neither do we denie the superioritie of the spirituall power of the Churche neither do we graunt the power of Christian Princes to be onely an earthly power But what is this for the priest to depose the Prince God be thanked we haue not so loste our common sense but that we see you straggle from the question But let vs sée if you come any néerer to it For if neither parte be ouer the other howe in one body of the Churche do bothe powers abide beeing not vnited or howe are they vnited if they yet abide so distinguished that one can not gouerne the other or who euer sawe in one body of a liuing creature two members vtterly distinguished placed in one place and honor who hathe seene except in a monstruous body the foote made equall to the arme the thighe to the necke the legge to the fide But and if the kingly and spirituall power are not altogither equall members distinguished onely in number as two handes two feete and two eyes for those that differ in originall in vse and in ende can neuer be equall or else they be also thinges vtterly seuered bicause they be vnited and filled togither in one body of the Churche we must needes confesse that they differ in the placing of them and yet they are continued in the compasse of one body Héere is Sim Suttle M. Saunders of all that euer I sée A man had néede haue more than common sense that shall vnderstande this geare althoughe he studie for it you couet to speake so darkely We go playnely to worke we graunt that the ecclesiastical power and the polytical power are two distinct powers We graunt that they are ioyned togither in one body of the Churche of Christ. We graunt also that the one hathe in some respects a superioritie and in other respectes an inferioritie to the other We do not confounde them béeing thus ioyned and yet distinguished the one in the same or like place with the other It is your selues that woulde thus confound them giuing bothe the powers vnto one person and confounde one member wyth another and make a monstrous body We attribute not both powers to the Prince as you do to your Pope We affirme that the Prince differeth from the Bishop the Bishop from the Prince We affirme that bothe are members of the mysticall body of the Church of Christ and bothe rule the other members and that as meÌ„bers too We affirme the Bishops power in respect of his ministerie in exhorting and rebuking is aboue the Princes and the Princes in respect of his gouernment in maynteyning punishing is aboue the Bishops So that héere is not one or the like place and honor geuen to bothe but bothe haue suche places as are fitte for either And thus as the head is superior in one respect coÌ„cerning iudgement inuention and memorie and the harte is superior in another respect concerning lyfe and will so the Bishop may be graunted a superior member in the body of the Church in one respect and the Prince superior in another What monstrous body is héere or what confusion or rather not in your owne darke spéeches instling confounding these things
a. Stap. fol. 13. b. Stap. fol. 13. b. Fol. 14. a. Cap. 3. fol. 14. b. Stap. fol. 14. b Matth. 5. 2. Cor. 11. 1. Reg. 2. ◅ Reg. 3. Psalm 112. Stapl. 14. b. Stapl. 14. b. Act. 5. A Papists cō◅cience Act. 5. Stap. 15. a. Num. 13. Iob. 8. Stap. 15. ◅ Stap. 15 16. Stap. 16. ◅ Fol. 16. 17. 18 19. 20. 21. Stap. 21. ◅ Stap. 21. ◅ Put to these the late treasons and rebellions of the Papists in ◅ng land their horrible murders and cruelties in Fraunce and Flaunders Stap. 21. ◅ Stap. 21. a. We abandon not the fayth we were baptised in bicause we abandon the Pope Stapl. 21. a. b. The booke of K. Henrie the eyght The title of Defender of the Faith. The title defender of the Faith inferreth supremacie The Papistes obiection of apparell St. fol. 21. b. Stap. 22. ◅ Magdeb. p◅ef cent 7. The Magde burgen◅es wrested Histo. Magde pref cent 7. The tyrannie of Heraclius The godly supreme gouernment of Constanti◅us Pogonotus St. Fol. 22. a Contra a◅tic Louani tom 2 Luther wrested Stap. fol. 22. a Andr Modre de Eccl. li. 1. ca. 10. St. fol. 22. b. Stap. 23. a. b. Stap. 24. a. The Popes goodnesse Stap. fol. 24. The Pope called god Extrau Ioh. 22 cum inter in glosia Cardinalis Zirabella Stap. 24. 2 The Popes patent The Vnitie that the Pope maketh Stapl. 24. ◅ Stapl. 24. a. Hallus in vita Edvv. 4. Apoc. 7. How the Pope can in deede make sainctes and martyrs Stap. 24. a. Stapl. 24. a. Stapl. 24. a. The Popes reigne in Englande Stap. 24. b. Stap. 24. b. Ecclesiasticall authoritie and authoritie ouer eccl. matters are not all one Stap. 24. b. St. 24. b. 25. a The commoditie that we haue of Papists Stap. 25. a. b. 26. a. b. How farre the Papists are frō mercy and cōsideration A difference betweene a Pap◅st and a Protestant A supreme gouernour Stapl. 2◅ b. Stapl. 28. b. Stapl. 23. b. Stapl. 28. b. Stapl. 28. b. 29. a. Fol. 29. a. b. The Papists make the gouernment of christian princes no better than the Turkes gouernment Deut. 13. 17. Rom. 13. 1. Tim. 3. Stap. 29. b. Gal. 3. Stap. 29. b. Stap. 22. b. Stap. 29. b. Heathen princes care and gouernment tended to religion Aristot. Polye 3. ca. 10. Cap. 11. Daniel 1. Daniel 6. The Papistes more iniurious to Christ an Princes than to Heathen Iohannes de Parisi◅s de po◅estate reg p◅ ca. 18. 1. Tim. 1. ◅useb lib. ◅ de vit Const. Concil Constantin 1. Aug. epist. 48. Concil Tola 3 Stap. 30. a. The papistes shift that princes are the clergies aduocates Dante 's Alegherius li. 3. Lupold de Babenb ca. 15. Stap 30. a. Though the Prince be not an eccl. person yet hath he supremacie in eccl. causes Stap. 30. b. Winchester fol. 96. 97. Stapl. 30. b. Fol. 30. b. Stap. fol. 30. b. Sta. fol. 30. b. Supra Diuis 4. fol. 65. Supra fol. 80. Fol. 31. ◅ Winchester Fol. 31. b. 32. a Cap. 5. fol. 32. a. b. Stapl. 32. Fol 32. b. Stapl. 32. b. Stap. 32. b. Stap. 32. b. Stap. 32. b. Fol. 34. ◅ The issue and state of the question betvveene the B. and M. Feck Fol. 34. b. Three kindes of ignorance ▪ Stap. 35. ◅ Supr ▪ ◅o 3. a. b Supra fol. 4. Stap. 36. a. Stap. 36. a. Stap. 36. a In erroribus Parisi◅ condemna◅s Ibidem Ibidem Tho. Aquin. super Tit. ca. 3 Sola fide Executiones manifestationes Stap. 36. a Fol. 36. a. Stap. 36. a. Contra errores Grecorum Apoc. 18. Stap. 37. b. Stap. 35. b. Stap 37. b. Stap. 38. a. Stap. 38. b. The Louanists bost they haue now foūd out the Popes title to be lure diuino Stapl. 38. b. Iohn 10. Gal. 1. Hieronimus super Mat. Ambrosius li. 1 de officijs Aug. contra Faustum li. 23 Sap. 1. Stapl. 39. ◅ Stapl. Cap. 7. fo 39. b. 40. a Stapl. ca. 8. Stapl. 40. b. Stap. 40. b. Deut. 17. Stapl. 40. b. Stapl. 40. b. Stap. 41. ◅ Deut. 17. Stap. 40. b. How subtilly the Papistes graunt princes to studie in Gods word Deut. 17. Vatablus in Deut. 17. Stapl. 41. a. In what sense the popishe Church may be graunted Catholicke Stapl. 41. a. Psalm 1. 2. Stap. 41. ◅ Stapl. 41. b. Math. 13. Stap. 41 b. Stap. 41. b. Deut. 17. Lyra in Deut. 17. 1. Reg. 4. The highe priest and the chiefe iudge mentioned Deut. 17. were two distinct persons Iohn 18. Stap. 41. b Stapl. 41. b. Deut. 17. Lyra in Deut. ◅7 Stap. 42. a. Fol. 42. a. Stap. 42. a. Stap. 42. b. Deut. 17. St. fol. 42. b Fol. 42. a Lyra in Deute 17. Sta. 42. b Supra 40. b ◅ol 42. b Chap. 9. Fol. 43. b Stap. 42. b 43. a Stap. 43. a. Stap. 43. a. Stap. 43. a. Stapl. 43. ◅ Stap. 43. a. 2. Pet. ◅ Stap. 43. a. 2. Pet. ◅ Stap. 43. a. Stap. 43. a. b Wherein master Stapleton excelleth al the Lou◅in write◅ ▪ Stap. 43. ◅ Stap. 43. b. The example of Moses and the Papistes shift◅ about it Stap. 43. b. Stap. 43. b. Stap. 43. b. Deut. 34. Sta. 44. a Deuter. 18. Act. 3. 7. Act. 7. 1. Reg. 19. Iudic. 4. A difference in excellēt Princ◅ betweene their extraord◅ giftes and ordinarie authoritie Moyses a figure of Christ ▪ not Christe a figure of Moses Deut. 17. Sta. 44. b. How the Papistes order the examples of the Scripture 1. Cor. 10. Stap. 44. b. Stap. 44. b. The rule Deu. 17. that the Papists would haue all the question ruled by and how farre it stretched Ioh. 19. Stap. 45. ◅ 45. ◅ The example of Iosue his supreme gouernment Cap. 10. Fol. 46. b. Stap. 46. b. Num. 27. Lyra in Num. 27. Stap. 46. b. Stap. 46. b. The Princes asking councel of the clergie embarres not his authoritie ouer them Stap 45. b. Deut. 17. Sta. 45. b. Stap. 46. a. Stap. 46. ◅ Stap. 46. ◅ Stap. 46. b. Lyra. Losue 8. Iosue 5. Iosue 3. Iosue 4. Cap. 8. Cap. 10. The example of King Dauids supreme gouernment in eccl. causes Cap. 11. Fol. 47. a. Stap. 47. a. The Princes supreme gouernment in ecel matters not preiudicial to the eccle authoritie Stap. 47. a. An vneuen cōparison betweene the doings of king Dauid and Q. Mary Howe the Popish priestes abused queene Mary Stap. 47. a. The Papistes shift agaynst the example of king Dauids supremacie bicause he was a Prophet Stap. 47. ◅ Stap. 47. a. 1. Par. 24. Stap. 47. a. 1. Par. 24. 1. Par. 23. It abaseth not the princes supreme gouernment to do all things accorto Gods commaundement Stap. 47. b. The keeping of the rites orders appoyn ted is not agaynst but cōfirmeth the princes supremacie The Queene appoynteth no new or st◅āge order in religion Stap. 47. b. Stap. 47. b It deba◅reth not the princes supremacie that the inferiour ministers be vnder their bishops Stap. 48.