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A12940 A counterblast to M. Hornes vayne blaste against M. Fekenham Wherein is set forthe: a ful reply to M. Hornes Answer, and to euery part therof made, against the declaration of my L. Abbat of Westminster, M. Fekenham, touching, the Othe of the Supremacy. By perusing vvhereof shall appeare, besides the holy Scriptures, as it vvere a chronicle of the continual practise of Christes Churche in al ages and countries, fro[m] the time of Constantin the Great, vntil our daies: prouing the popes and bishops supremacy in ecclesiastical causes: and disprouing the princes supremacy in the same causes. By Thomas Stapleton student in diuinitie. Stapleton, Thomas, 1535-1598.; Horne, Robert, 1519?-1580. Answeare made by Rob. Bishoppe of Wynchester, to a booke entituled, The declaration of suche scruples, and staies of conscience, touchinge the Othe of the Supremacy, as M. John Fekenham, by wrytinge did deliver unto the L. Bishop of Winchester.; Harpsfield, Nicholas, 1519-1575. 1567 (1567) STC 23231; ESTC S117788 838,389 1,136

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Bales or some such like but as for the olde ordinary Latin Glose I am right sure M. Horn it hath no suche thinge This therefore may wel stande for an other vntruthe As also that which immediatly you alleage out of Deuteron 13. For in al that chapter or any other of that booke there is no such worde to be founde as you talke of And thus with a ful messe of Notorious vntruthes you haue furnished the first seruice brought yet to the table cōcernīg the prīcipal matter How be it perhaps though this be very course yet you haue fyne dishes and dayntycates coming after Let vs then procede The .11 Diuision Pag. 8. b. M. Horne The beste and most Godly Princes that euer gouerned Gods people did perceiue and rightly vnderstande this to be Gods vvil that they ought to haue an especiall regarde and care for the ordering and setting foorth of Gods true Religion and therefore vsed great diligence vvith feruent zeale to perfourme and accomplishe the same Moyses vvas the supreme gouernour ouer Gods people and vvas .38 not chiefe Priest or Bisshop for that vvas Aaron vvhose authority zeale and care in appointing and ordering Religion amongest Gods people prescribing to al the people yea to Aaron and the Leuits vvhat and after vvhat sorte they should execute their functions correcting and chastening the transgressours is manifestly set foorthe in his booke called the Pentateuche The 9. Chapter concerning the example of Moyses MAister Horne willing to seame orderly to procede first bringeth in what scripture commaūdeth Princes to doe and then what they did But as his scripture towching the commaundemēt by him alleaged nothing reacheth home to his pretensed purpose but rather infringeth and plainely marreth the same as I haue saide and fully standeth on our syde So I dowbte nothing yt wil fare with his examples as of Moyses Iosue Dauid Salomon Iosaphat Ezechias Iosias and that they al come to short and are to weake to iustifie his assertion But here am I shrewdly encombred and in a great doubte what to doe For I coulde make a shorte but a true answere that these examples are fully answered alredy by M. Doctour Harding and M. Dorman and referre thee thither to thyne and myne ease gentle reader and to the sparing not onely of penne ynk and paper but of the tyme also whiche of al things is most preciouse But then I feare me woulde steppe forth yf not M. Horne a good simple plain man in his dealings yet some other iolye fyne freshe pregnant wytty fellowe yea and bringe me to the straits which way so euer I did tread Yf I shuld as I said sende the reader to them then should I heare a foole a dolte an asse that can say nothing of his own Then shoulde the cause be slaundered also as so poore and weake that it could beare no large and ample treatise yea with all that their answeres were such as I was asshamed of them and therefore wilylye and wiselye forbeared them with manye suche other triumphant trieflinge toyes Againe yf I shoulde repete or inculcate their answeres then woulde Maister Nowell or some other rushe in vppon me with his ruflynge rhetorike that he vseth againste Maister Dorman and Maister Doctour Hardinge withe a precise accompte and calculation what either Maister Dorman or Maister Doctour Hardinge borowed of Hosius or either of them two of the other And what I haue nowe borowed of them bothe or of either of them And I shoulde be likewise insulted vppon and our cause as feble and very weake slaundered also But on the one syde leaste any of the good bretherne shoulde surmise vppon my silence anye suche distruste I will compendiously as the matter shall require abridge their answeres and that Maister Horne shall thinke that our stuff is not al spente I shall on the other syde for a surplussage adioyne some other thinges to owre opponent accommodate So that I truste either answere shal be sufficient to atchieue our purpose againste Maister Horne Then for Moyses I saye with Maister Doctour Hardinge and Saint Augustyne that he was a prieste aswell as a Prince I say the same with Maister Dorman with Philo Iudeus with Saint Hierom and with Saint Hieroms Maister Gregorie Nazianzene And so consequently Maister Horne that Moyses example serueth not your turne onlesse ye will kinge Henry the eight and his sonne king Edward yea and our gracious Quene to be a priest to but rather quite ouerturneth your assertion And thinke you Maister Horne that the Quenes authority doth iumpe agree with the authority of Moyses in causes ecclesiastical Then maye she preach to the people as Moyses did Thē may she offer sacrifices as Moyses did Then may she cōsecrate Priests as Moyses did cōsecrate Aaron and others Then may it be said of the imposition of her hands as was said of Moyses Iosua the son of Nun was ful of the sprite of wisedom for Moyses hadde put his hand vpon him It must nedes therfore follow that Moyses was a priest and that a high priest which ye here ful peuishly deny I say now further with M. Dorman that put the case Moyses were no priest yet this example frameth not so smothely and closely to your purpose as ye wene For Moyses was a prophet and that such a prophet as the like was not agayne Geue me nowe Maister Horn Princes Prophetes geue me Princes and Lawe makers by speciall order and appointmente ordeyned of God to whose woordes God certainly woulde haue geuen as greate authority as he wolde and commaunded to be geuen to Moyses and then perchaunce I will say that ye saye somewhat well to the purpose Agayne Moyses was suche a speciall Prophet and so singularlye chosen of God to be heard and obeyed in all thinges that he is in the holy scripture euidentlye compared to Christ him selfe compared I say euen in the office of teaching and instructing Moyses in the Deuteronom foretelling the Iewes of a Messias to come saieth The Lorde thy God wil rayse thee vp a Prophet from among thy own nation and of thy brethern such a one as my self him thou shalt heare And this so spoken of Moyses in the olde Lawe is in the new testamēt auouched ād repeted first by S. Peter the chief Apostle and next by S. Stephen the first Martir and applied to Christ. If thē Christ must so be heard and obeied of vs as was Moyses of the Iewes no doubt as Christ is a Kinge a Prophet a Priest and a Bisshop to vs so was Moyses to thē a Prince a Prophet a Priest and a Bisshop As Christ is of vs to be heard and obeyed as wel in al matters Ecclesiasticall as Temporal for no temporal Lawe can haue force against the Law of Christ amonge Christen men so was Moyses to be heard and obeyed of the Iewes in matters and causes as well temporall as spirituall For why The Scripture is plaine Tanquam me
and doth extorte our confession in this poynte Whiche reason is that God loueth his Churche aswell as he did the Iewes Synagoge and hath as louingly as plentifully and as effectually prouided for the good gouernement of the same as he dyd for the synagoge And therefore to pacifie Diuisions schismes and heresies he hath prouided vs one spirituall Cowrte to decide and vtterly to determyn al controuersies rising vppon matters of religion as he prouided for the Iewes And so much the more amonge Christians then among the Iewes for that the Christians beinge of so many and diuers nations tongues wyttes manners and fasshions many cōtrouersies for fayth and religion and of more weight and moment will also arise and springe vppe then euer rose amonge the Iewes beinge but one onely Nation Especially the Apostle foretellinge vs that heresies must arise And yf there be not one certayne iudg appoynted to whome all nations must indifferently obeye yt muste neades be that Christendome shall contynewe in a continuall broyle and ruffle of sects and heresies Which also haue in our tyme so terribly and hugely encreased by nothinge more then that we geue no eare to this one iudge and that we do not as our forefathers haue done staye our selues and depende vppon this the highest cowrte of all Christendome Ye see nowe good reader both the figure and the reason of the figure what sayeth nowe M. Horne to it Full pretely I warrante yow and that is that Maister Fekenham doth not aptly conclude that the bisshoppes in the tyme of the Ghospell owght to haue iurisdiction by the expresse woorde of God to kepe cowrts to call Councells to make Lawes to visite and to reforme caet because the highe priest and the temporall iudge did determyne doubtfull cases in the tyme of the olde testament for the priest alone did not determyne all causes as M. Fekenham seameth to alleage the text Here may yow playnelie see that Maister Fekenham can not vse his owne armure but such onely as Maister Horne wil graunt him For neither M. Fekenham speaketh of the temporall iudge nor his texte be it Latin Greke or Hebrewe They all speake of a iudge but nothing is there to signifie this woorde temporall This woorde is shamefully infarsed by Maister Horne to vpholde his temporall supremacye by this place most greauously battered The iudge and the high Priest is al one as doth appere by the letter and by the doing of Kinge Iosaphat which was conformable to the cōmaundement of Moyses where as Amarias is appointed the chief for spiritual matters as Zabadias was for those thinges that perteyned to the Kinges office Which may be wel vnderstanded for the bodilie punishment of those that disobeyed the high priest and to put them to death yf the case required according to the Lawe And in that sense yt may be taken perchaunce for a temporal Iudge This notwithstanding yt agreeth well enowghe with the high priest to For that diuerse tymes aswell before there were any Kings as afterward the high priest had the cheif regiment both temporal and Ecclesiasticall but though he had not euer the temporal yet had he euer the Ecclesiasticall supremacy And therefore it is writen of the Prophete Malachie that the lipps of the priestes shall preserue knowledg and they shall seke the lawe at his mowthe And it is here writen who so euer disobeyeth the priest shal die He saith not who so euer diosobeyeth the temporal Iudge For the high Priest is the Iudge al one person and not two And so S. Cyprian with the other fathers taketh place When I speake of the high priest I exclude not other of the clergy with whome the Pope in all graue and weighty causes vseth to consult and of congruence ought so to do and so it was in the old Law Neither M. Fekenham as ye charge him saith so but layeth forth the text as it is saying that he that disobeyeth the priest shall die for it Nowe the highe priest being this authorised and Moses Aaron and Eleazarus being successiuely the highe priestes it must nedes follow that they had the chiefe superiority for matters ecclesiastical neding no further authority then that they had by the expresse woorde of God for the executing of theire office whether it were in geuinge sentence and making decrees Ecclesiasticall or in visiting and reforming the priests and Leuites that were vnderneth them which if ye can shewe they did not nor coulde do but by the ciuill magistrates authority we shall then geue you some eare But ye proue it not nor euer shall be able to proue this paradoxe And therfore we passe not whether it be true or no that in the .29 of Exodus there is neuer a worde of iurisdiction It is sufficiente that Maister Fekenham proue Aaron to haue bene the highe prieste as he was in dede and so yt appeareth there Where nowe ye would returne against M. Fekenham the .24 of Exodus ye haue forgotten your selfe For at that tyme Aaron was not yet made highe priest but afterward he was so made as appereth in the 3. chapter after Videlicet cap. 28. And therfore he might haue a commission to heare causes in Moses absence well inowgh Moses being then both the prince and the highe priest also ād he as is sayd being yet no priest at al. For your answere to the .3 place by M. Fekenhā alleaged we might passe it sauing that by your cōming in with Vrim and Thunim you haue much holpen M. Fekenhā his argument and cut your self with your Thunim quite ouer the thume For though theis outward miraculouse signes do not nowe appeare in our high priest yet the thing that was signified by Vrim ād Thunim set in the brestplate of the high priest that is light and perfectiō as some expoūd it or as our cōmō trāslatiō hath doctrin ād verity remaine now in our high priest aswel as they did thē remaine in the high priest of the olde Testamēt yea and much more And therfore the true doctrine is to be fetched at the high priests or bisshops hands in al doubts and perplexities of religiō ād cōsequently all lawes decrees and ordinaūces made for the obseruatiō of his sentēce and determinatiō are to be obserued To what purpose were it for priests to declare ād determin the truth if they might not by some forcible Lawe cōpel men to the keping of the same which is nowe chiefly practised in the Church by excōmunicatiōs as appereth by general and by other Coūcels The like hereof the Iewes had in thrusting the disobediēt ād rebellious persons out of the Synagoge Now to imagine such an vnprobable and an vnlikely paradoxe that bishops hauing cōmissiō frō God to fede the people to teache them and instruct them and hauing a charge of their soules for the which they shall make to God an accompt may not visite and reforme their flock by examinations