People and when either the Militia which is given him for the execution and support of the Law shall be imploy'd by him to subvert it as in the case of Ship-Money it was or the Treasure shall be mis-apply'd and made the Revenue of Courtiers and Sycophants as in the time of Edward the Second or worthless or wicked People shall be put into the greatest places as in the reign of Richard the Second In this case though the Prince here cannot be questionable for it as the Kings were in Sparta and your Doges I believe would be yet it is a great violation of the trust reposed in him by the Government and a making that Power which is given him by Law unlawful in the Execution And the frequent examples of Justice inflicted in Parliament upon the King's Ministers for abusing the Royal Power shews plainly that such authority is not left in his hands to use as he pleases Nay there have befallen sad troubles and dangers to some of these Princes themselves who have abused their Power to the prejudice of the Subjects which although they are no way justifiable yet may serve for an Instruction to Princes and an example not to hearken to ruinous Councils for men when they are enraged do not always consider Justice of Religion passion being as natural to man as reason and vertue which was the Opinion of divine Machiavil To answer you then I say That though we do allow such Powers in the King yet since they are given him for edification and not destruction and cannot be abused without great danger to his Ministers and even to himself we may hope that they can never be abused but in a broken Government And if ours be so as we shall see anon the fault of the ill execution of our Laws is not to be imputed either to the Prince or his Ministers excepting that the latter may be as we said before justly punishable for not advising the Prince to consent to them ending the frame of which we shall talk more hereafter but in the mean time I will come to the Kings other Prerogatives as having all Royal Mines the being serv'd first before other Creditors where mony is due to him and to have a speedier and easier way than his Subjects to recover his debts and his Rents c. But to say all in one word when there arises any doubt whether any thing be the king's Prerogative or no this is the way of deciding it viz. To consider whether it be for the good and protection of the people that the King have such a Power For the definition of Prerogative is a considerable part of the Common Law by which Power is put into the Prince for the preservation of his People And if it be not for the good of his Subjects it is not Prerogative not Law for our Prince has no Authority of his own but what was first intrusted in him by the Government of which he is Head nor is it to be imagined that they would give him more Power than what was necessary to Govern them For example the power of pardoning Criminals condemned is of such use to the Lives and Estates of the People that without it many would be exposed to die unjustly As lately a poor Gentleman who by means of the Harangue of a Strepitous Lawyer was found guilty of Murder for a Man he never kil'd or if he had the fact had been but Man-slaughter and he had been inevitably murdered himself if his Majesty had not been graciously pleased to extend his Royal Mercy to him As he did likewise vouchsafe to do to a Gentleman convicted for speaking words he never utter'd or if he had spoken them they were but foolishly not malitiously spoken On the other side if a Controversie should arise as it did in the beginning of the last Parliament between the House of Commons and the Prerogative-Lawyers about the choice of their Speaker these latter having interested his Majesty in the Contest and made him by consequence disoblige in limine a very Loyal and a very Worthy Parliament and for what for a Question which if you will decide it the right way will be none for setting aside the Presidents and the History when the Crown first pretended to any share in the Choice of a Speaker which Argument was very well handled by some of the Learned Patriots then I would have leave to ask what man can shew and what reason can be alledged why the protection and welfare of the People should require that a Prerogative should be in the Prince to chuse the Mouth of the House of Commons when there is no particular person in his whole Dominion that would not think it against his interest if the Government had given the King Power to nominate his Bayliff his Attorney or his Referree in any Arbitration Certainly there can be no advantage either to the Soveraign or his Subjects that the person whose Office it is to put their deliberations into fitting words and express all their requests to his Majesty should not be entirely in their own Election and appointment which there is the more reason for too because the Speakers for many years past have received Instructions from the Court and have broken the Priviledges of the House by revealing their Debates Adjourning them without a Vote and committed many other Misdemeanours by which they have begotten an ill understanding between the King and his House of Commons to the infinite prejudice both of his Majesties Affairs and his People Since I have given this rule to Judge Prerogative by I shall say no more of it for as to what concerns the King's Office in the Intervals of Parliament it is wholly Ministerial and is barely to put in Execution the Common Law and the Statutes made by the Soveraign Power that is by Himself and the Parliament without varying one tittle or suspending abrogating or neglecting the Execution of any Act whatsoever and to this he is Solemnly Sworn at his Coronation And all his Power in this behalf is in him by Common Law which is Reason it self written as well in the hearts of rational Men as in the Lawyers Books Noble Ven. Sir I have heard much talk of the Kings Negative Voice in Parliaments which in my Opinion is as much as a Power to frustrate when he pleases all the endeavours and labours of his People and to prevent any good that might accrue to the Kingdom by having the right to meet in Parliament for certainly if we in Venice had placed any such Prerogative in our Duke or in any of our Magistracies we could not call our selves a free People Eng. Gent. Sir I can answer you as I did before that if our Kings have such a Power it ought to be used according to the true and genuine intent of the Government that is for the Preservation and Interest of the people and not for the disappointing the Counsels of a Parliament towards reforming
Eng. Gent. Gentlemen then I shall delay you no longer The Evil Counsellors the Pensioner-Parliament the Thorow-pac'd Judges the Flattering Divines the Buisie and Designing Papists the French Counsels are not the Causes of our Misfortunes they are but the Effects as our present Distractions are of one Primary Cause which is the Breach and Ruin of our Government which having been decaying for near two hundred years is in our Age brought so near to Expiration that it lyes agonizing and can no longer perform the Functions of a Political Life nor carry on the work of Ordering and Preserving Mankind So that the Shifts that our Courtiers have within some years used are but so many Tricks or Conclusions which they are trying to hold Life and Soul together a while longer and have played Handy-Dandy with Parliaments and especially with the House of Commons the only part which is now left entire of the old Constitution by Adjourning and Proroguing and Dissolving them contrary to the true meaning of the Law as well in the Reign of our late King as during his Majesties that now is Whereas indeed our Counsellors perceiving the decay of the Foundation as they must if they can see but one Inch into the Politicks ought to have Addrest themselves to the King to call a Parliament the true Physician and to lay open the Distemper there and so have endeavour'd a Cure before it had been too late as I fear it now is I mean the piecing and patching up the Old Government It is true as the Divine Machiavil says That Diseases in Government are like a Marasmus in the Body Natural which is very hard to be discovered whilst it is Curable and after it comes to be easie to discern difficult if not impossible to be Remedy'd yet it is to be supposed that the Counsellors are or ought to be skilful Physicians and to foresee the Seeds of State-Distempers time enough to prevent the Death of the Patient else they ought in Conscience to excuse themselves from that sublime Employment and betake themselves to Callings more suitable to their Capacities So that although for this Reason the Ministers of State here are inexcusable and deserve all the Fury which must one time or other be let loose against them except they shall suddenly fly from the wrath to come by finding out in time and advising the true means of setting themselves to rights yet neither Prince nor People are in the mean time to be blamed for not being able to Conduct things better No more than the Waggoner is to answer for his ill guiding or the Oxon for their ill drawing the Waggon when it is with Age and ill usage broken and the Wheels unserviceable Or the Pilot and Marriners for not weathring out a Storm when the Ship hath sprung a planck And as in the body of Man sometimes the Head and all the Members are in good Order nay the Vital Parts are sound and entire yet if there be a Considerable Putrifaction in the humors much more if the Blood which the Scripture calls the life be Impure and Corrupted the Patient ceases not to be in great Danger and oftentimes dies without some skillful Physician And in the mean time the Head and all the parts suffer and are unquiet full as much as if they were all immediately affected So it is in every respect with the Body Politick or Commonwealth when their Foundations are moulder'd And although in both these Cases the Patients cannot though the Distemper be in their own Bodies know what they ail but are forced to send for some Artist to tell them yet they cease not to be extreamly uneasie and impatient and lay hold oftentimes upon unsuitable Remedies and impute their Malady to wrong and ridiculous Causes As some people do here who think that the growth of Popery is our only Evil and that if we were secure against that our Peace and Settlement were obtain'd and that our Disease needed no other Cure But of this more when we come to the Cure Noble Ven. Against this Discourse certainly we have nothing to reply but must grant that when any Government is decay'd it must be mended or all will Ruine But now we must Request you to declare to us how the Government of England is decay'd and how it comes to be so For I am one of those Unskilful Persons that cannot discern a State Marasmus when the danger is so far off Eng. Gent. Then no man living can for your Government is this day the only School in the World that breeds such Physicians and you are esteemed one of the ablest amongst them And it would be manifest to all the World for Truth although there were no argument for it but the admirable Stability and Durableness of your Government which hath lasted above twelve hundred years entire and perfect whilst all the rest of the Countreys in Europe have not only changed Masters very frequently in a quarter of that time but have varied and altered their Polities very often Which manifests that you must needs have ever enjoy'd a Succession of wise Citizens that have had skill and Ability to forwarn you betimes of those Rocks against which your excellently-built Vessel might in time split Noble Ven. Sir you over-value not only me but the Wisdom of my Fellow Citizens for we have none of these high Speculations nor hath scarce any of our Body read Aristotle Plato or Cicero or any of those great Artists Ancient or Modern who teach that great Science of the Governing and Increasing great States and Cities without studying which Science no man can be fit to discourse pertinently of these matters much less to found or mend a Government or so much as find the defects of it We only study our own Government and that too Chiefly to be fit for advantagious Employments rather than to foresee our dangers Which yet I must needs confess some amongst us are pretty good at and will in a Harangue made upon passing a Law venture to tell us what will be the Consequence of it two hundred years hence But of these things I shall be very prodigal in my discourse when you have Leisure and Patience to command me to say any thing of our Polity in the mean time pray be pleased to go on with your Edifying Instruction Eng. Gent. Before I can tell you how the Government of England came to be decayed I must tell you what that Government was and what it now is And I should say something too of Government in General but that I am afraid of talking of that Subject before you who are so exact a Judge of it Noble Ven. I thought you had been pleased to have done with this Discourse I assure you Sir if I had more skill in that matter than ever I can pretend to it would but serve to make me the fitter Auditor of what you shall say on that Subject Eng. Gent. Sir in the Course of my Reasoning upon
five parts of six have been alienated and mostly is come into the same hands with those of the King and Peers have inherited likewise according to the course of nature their Power But being kept from it by the established Government which not being changed by any lawfull Acts of State remains still in being formally whereas virtually it is abolished so that for want of outward Orders and Provisions the people are kept from the Exercise of that Power which is faln to them by the Law of Nature and those who cannot by that Law pretend to the share they had do yet enjoy it by vertue of that Right which is now ceased as having been but the natural Effect of a Cause that is no longer in being and you know sublata causa tollitur I cannot say that the greater part of the people do know this their condition but they find very plainly that they want something which they ought to have and this makes them lay often the blame of their unsetledness upon wrong causes but however are altogether unquiet and restless in the Intervals of Parliament and when the King pleases to assemble one spend all their time in Complaints of the Inexecution of the Law of the multiplication of an Infinity of Grievances of Mis-spending the Publick Monies of the danger our Religion is in by practices to undermine it and the State by endeavours to bring in Arbitrary Power and in questioning great Officers of State as the Causers and Promoters of all these Abuses in so much that every Parliament seems a perfect State of War wherein the Commons are tugging and contending for their Right very justly and very honourably yet without coming to a Point So that the Court sends them packing and governs still worse and worse in the Vacancies being necessitated thereunto by their despair of doing any good in Parliament and therefore are forced to use horrid shifts to subsist without it and to keep it off without ever considering that if these Counsellers understood their Trade they might bring the Prince and People to such an Agreement in Parliament as might repair the broken and shipwrack'd Government of England and in this secure the Peace Quiet and Prosperity of the People the Greatness and Happiness of the King and be themselves not only out of present danger which no other course can exempt them from but be Renowned to all Posterity Noble Ven. I beseech you Sir how comes it to pass that neither the King nor any of his Counsellors could ever come to find out the truth of what you discourse for I am fully convinced it is as you say Eng. Gent. I cannot resolve you that but this is certain they have never endeavoured a Cure though possibly they might know the Disease as searing that though the Effects of a Remedy would be as was said very advantagious both to King and People and to themselves yet possibly such a Reformation might not consist with the Merchandize they make of the Princes Favour nor with such Bribes Gratuities and Fees as they usually take for the dispatch of all Matters before them And therefore our Counsellors have been so far from suggesting any such thing to their Master that they have opposed and quashed all Attempts of that kind as they did the worthy Proposals made by certain Members of that Parliament in the beginning of King James's Reign which is yet called the Undertaking Parliament These Gentlemen considering what we have been discoursing of viz. That our old Government is at an end had framed certain Heads which if they had been proposed by that Parliament to the King and by him consented to would in their Opinion have healed the Breach and that if the King would perform his part that House of Commons would undertake for the Obedience of the People They did believe that if this should have been moved in Parliament before the King was acquainted with it it would prove Abortive and therefore sent three of their number to his Majesty Sir James a Croft Grandfather or Father to the present Bishop of Hereford Thomas Harley who was Ancestor to the Honourable Family of that Name in Herefordshire and Sir Henry Nevill who had been Ambassador from Queen Elizabeth to the French King These were to open the matter at large to the King and to procure his leave that it might be proposed in Parliament which after a very long Audience and Debate that wise Prince consented to with a promise of Secresie in the mean time which they humbly begged of His Majesty However this took Vent and the Earl of Northampton of the House of Howard who ruled the Rost in that time having knowledg of it engaged Sir R. Weston afterwards Lord Treasurer and Earl of Portland to impeach these Undertakers in Parliament before they could move their matters which he did the very same day accompanying his Charge which was endeavouring to alter the established Government of England with so eloquent an Invective that if one of them had not risen and made the House acquainted with the whole Series of the Affair they must have been in danger of being impeached by the Commons but however it broke their designe which was all that Northampton and Weston desired and prevented Posterity from knowing any of the Particulars of this Reformation for nothing being moved nothing could remain upon the Journal So that you see our Predecessors were not ignorant altogether of our condition though the Troubles which have befallen this poor Kingdom since have made it much more apparent for since the Determination of that Parliament there has not been one called either in that King's Reign or his Son 's or since that hath not been dissolved abruptly whilst the main businesses and those of most concern to the publick were depending and undecided And although there hath happened in this Interim a bloody War which in the Close of it changed the whole Order and Foundation of the Polity of England and that it hath pleased God to restore it again by his Majesty's happy Return so that the old Government is alive again yet it is very visible that its deadly Wound is not healed but that we are to this day tugging with the same difficulties managing the same Debates in Parliament and giving the same disgusts to the Court and hopes to the Country which our Ancestors did before the Year 1640. whilst the King hath been forced to apply the same Remedy of Dissolution to his two first Parliaments that his Father used to his four first and King James to his three last contrary to his own visible Interest and that of his people and this for want of having Counsellors about him of Abilities and Integrity enough to discover to him the Disease of his Government and the Remedy which I hope when we meet to Morrow Morning you will come prepared to enquire into for the Doctor says he will advise you to go take the Air this afternoon in your
Coach Noble Ven. I shall think it very long till the morning come But before you go pray give me leave to ask you something of your Civil War here I do not mean the History of it although the World abroad is very much in the dark as to all your Transactons of that time for want of a good one but the grounds or pretences of it and how you fell into a War against your King Eng. Gent. As for our History it will not be forgotten one of those who was in Employment from the Year 40. to 60. hath written the History of those 20 Years a Person of good Learning and Elocution and though he be now dead yet his Executors are very unwilling to publish it so soon and to rub a Sore that is not yet healed But the Story is writ with great Truth and Impartiality although the Author were engaged both in Councils and Arms for the Parliaments side But for the rest of your Demand you may please to understand that our Parliament never did as they pretended make War against the King for he by Law can do no Wrong and therefore cannot be quarrelled with The War they declared was undertaken to rescue the King's Person out of those Mens hands who led him from his Parliament and made use of his Name to levy a War against them Noble Ven. But does your Government permit that in case of a disagreement between the King and his Parliament either of them may raise Arms against the other Eng. Gent. It is impossible that any Government can go further than to provide for its own Safety and Preservation whilst it is in being and therefore it can never direct what shall be done when it self is at an end there being this difference between our Bodies Natural and Politick that the first can make a Testament to dispose of things after his death but not the other This is certain that where-ever any two Co-ordinate Powers do differ and there be no Power on Earth to reconcile them otherwise nor any Umpire they will de facto fall together by the Ears What can be done in this Case de jure look into your own Country-man Machiavell and into Grotius who in his Book De jure Belli ac Pacis treated of such matters long before our Wars As for the ancient Politicians they must needs be silent in the Point as having no mixt Governments amongst them and as for me I will not rest my self in so slippery a Place There are great disputes about it in the Parliaments Declarations before the War and something considerable in the King's Answers to them which I shall specifie immediately when I have satisfied you how our War begun which was in this manner The Long Parliament having procured from the King his Royal Assent for their Sitting till they were dissolved by Act and having paid and sent out the Scottish Army and disbanded our own went on in their Debates for the settling and mending our Government the King being displeased with them for it and with himself for putting it out of his Power to dissolve them now the business which they pretended for their Perpetuation was quite finished takes an unfortunate Resolution to accuse five principal Men of the Commons House and one of the Peers of High-Treason which he prosecuted in a new unheard-of way by coming with armed Men into the Commons House of Parliament to demand their Members but nothing being done by reason of the absence of the five and Tumults of discontented Citizens flocking to White-Hall and Westminster the King took that occasion to absent himself from his Parliament Which induced the Commons House to send Commissioners to Hampton-Court to attend his Majesty with a Remonstrance of the State of the Kingdom and an humble Request to return to his Parliament for the Redressing those Grievances which were specified in that Remonstrance But the King otherwise Counselled goes to Windsor and thence Northwards till he arrived at York where he summons in the Militia that is the Trained-Bands of the County and besides all the Gentry of which there was a numerous Appearance The King addressed himself to the latter with Complaints against a prevailing Party in Parliament which intended to take the Crown from his Head that he was come to them his loving Subjects for Protection and in short desired them to assist him with Moneys to defend himself by Arms. Some of these Gentlemen petitioned His Majesty to return to his Parliament the rest went about the Debate of the King's Demands who in the mean time went to Hull to secure the Magazine there but was denied Entrance by a Gentleman whom the House had sent down to prevent the seizing it who was immediately declared a Traytor and the King fell to raising of Forces which coming to the Knowledge of the House they made this Vote That the King seduced by Evil Counsel intended to levy War against his Parliament and People to destroy the Fundamental Laws and Liberties of England and to introduce an Arbitrary Government c. This was the first time they named the King and the last For in all their other Papers and in their Declaration to Arm for their Defence which did accompany this Vote they name nothing but Malignant Counsellors The Kings Answer to these Votes and this Declaration is that which I mentioned wherein His Majesty denies any intention of invading the Government with high Imprecations upon himself and Posterity if it were otherwise and owns that they have Right to maintain their Laws and Government This is to be seen in the Paper it self now extant and this Gracious Prince never pretended as some Divines have done for him that his Power came from God and that his Subjects could not dispute it nor ought he to give any Account of his Actions though he should enslave us all to any but him So that our War did not begin upon a point of Right but upon a matter of Fact for without going to Lawyers or Casuists to be resolved those of the People who believed that the King did intend to destroy our Liberties joyned with the Parliament and those who were of opinion that the prevailing party in Parliament did intend to destroy the King or dethrone him assisted vigorously His Majesty with their Lives and Fortunes And the Question you were pleased to ask never came for both parties pretended and believed they were in the right and that they did fight for and defend the Government But I have wearied you out Noble Ven. No sure Sir but I am infinitely obliged to you for the great care you have taken and still have used to instruct me and beg the continuance of it for to morrow morning Eng. Gent. I shall be sure to wait upon you at nine a Clock but I shall beseech both of you to bethink your selves what to offer for I shall come with a design to learn not to teach nor will I presume in such a
Grievances and making provision for the future execution of the Lawes and whenever it is applyed to frustrate those ends it is a violation of Right and infringement of the King's Coronation-Oath in which there is this Clause That he shall Confirmare consuetudines which in the Latine of those times is leges quas vulgus elegerit I know some Criticks who are rather Grammarians than Lawyers have made a distinction between elegerim and elegero and will have it That the King Swears to such Laws as the people shall have chosen and not to those they shall chuse But in my Opinion if that Clause had been intended onely to oblige the King to execute the Laws made already it might have been better exprest by servare consuctudines than by confirmare consuetudines besides that he is by another clause in the same Oath sworn to execute all the Laws But I shall leave this Controversie undecided those who have a desire to see more of it may look into those quarrelling Declarations pro and con about this matter which preceded our unhappy Civil Wars This is certain that there are not to be found any Statutes that have passed without being presented to his Majesty or to some commissioned by him but whether such Addresses were intended for Respect and Honour to His Majesty as the Speaker of the House of Commons and the Lord Mayor of London are brought to him I leave to the Learned to Discourse onely thus much we may affirm That there never were yet any Parliamentary Requests which did highly concern the Publick presented to any King and by him refused but such denials did produce very dismal effects as may be seen in our Histories ancient and late it being certain that both the Barons Wars and our last dismal Combustions proceeded from no other cause than the denial of the Princes then reigning to consent to the desires of the States of the Kingdom and such hath been the wisdom and goodness of our present gracious Prince that in twenty years and somewhat more for which time we have enjoy'd him since his happy Restauration he hath not exercis'd his Negative Voice towards more than one publick Bill and that too was to have continued in force if it had passed into an Act but for six Weeks being for raising the Militia for so long time and as for the private Bills which are matters of meer grace it is unreasonable his Majesty should be refused that Right that every Englishman enjoys which is not to be obliged to dispence his favours but where he pleases But for this point of the Negative Vote it is possible that when we come to Discourse of the Cure of our Political Distemper some of you will propose the clearing and explanation of this matter and of all others which may concern the King's Power and the Peoples Rights Noble Ven. But pray Sir have not the House of Peers a Negative Voice in all Bills how come they not to be obliged to use it for the Publick Good Eng. Gent So they are no doubt and the Commons too but there is a vast difference between a deliberative Vote which the Peers have with their Negative and that in the Crown to blast all without deliberating The Peers are Co-ordinate with the Commons in presenting and hammering of Laws and may send Bills down to them as well as receive any from them excepting in matters wherein the People are to be Taxed and in this our Government imitates the best and most perfect Commonwealths that ever were where the Senate assisted in the making of Laws and by their wisdom and dexterity polisht fil'd and made ready things for the more populous Assemblies and sometimes by their gravity and moderation reduced the People to a Calmer State and by their authority and credit stem'd the Tide and made the Waters quiet giving the People time to come to themselves And therefore if we had no such Peerage now upon the old Constitution yet we should be necessitated to make an artificial Peerage or Senate in stead of it which may assure our present Lords that though their Dependences and Power are gone yet that we cannot be without them and that they have no need to fear an annihilation by our Reformation as they suffered in the late mad times But I shall speak a word of the peoples Rights and then shew how this brave and excellent Government of England came to decay The People by the Fundamental Laws that is by the Constitution of the Government of England have entire freedome in their Lives Properties and their Persons nether of which can in the least suffer but according to the Laws already made or to be made hereafter in Parliament and duly publisht and to prevent any oppression that might happen in the execution of these good Laws which are our Birth-right all Tryals must be by twelve Men of our equals and of our Neighbourhood These in all Civil Causes judge absolutely and decide the matter of Fact upon which the matter of Law depends but if where matter of Law is in question these twelve Men shall refuse to find a special Verdict at the direction of the Court the Judge cannot Controul it but their Verdict must be Recorded But of these matters as also of Demurrers Writs of Errour and Arrests of Judgment c. I have discours'd to this Gentleman who is a Stranger before now neither do's the understanding of the Execution of our Municipal Laws at all belong to this discourse Onely it is to be noted that these Juries or twelve Men in all Trials or Causes which are Criminal have absolute Power both as to matter of Law and Fact except the Party by Demurrer confess the matter of Fact and take it out of their hands And the first question the Officer asks the Foreman when they all come in to deliver their Verdict is this Is he Guilty in manner or form as he is Indicted or not Guilty which shews plainly that they are to Examine and Judge as well whether and how far the Fact committed is Criminal as whether the person charged hath committed that Fact But though by the Corruption of these times the infallible consequences of a broken frame of Government this Office of the Juries and Right of Englishmen have been of late question'd yet it hath been strongly and effectually vindicated by a learned Author of late to whom I refer you for more of this matter I shall say no more of the Rights of the People but this one thing That neither the King nor any by Authority from him hath any the least Power or Jurisdiction over any Englishman but what the Law gives them and that although all Commissions and Writs go out in the King's name yet his Majesty hath no right to Issue out any Writ with advice of his Council or otherwise excepting what come out of his Courts nor to alter any Clause in a Writ or add any thing to it And
and there is no need of it at all in this Case I have told you before that there is a necessity of a Senate and how short this Government would be without it and how confused in the mean time the Roman Senate was Hereditary amongst the Patricii except the Censor left any of them out of the Roll during his Magistracy for some very great and scandalous offence and in that case too there was an Appeal to the People as in all other Causes witness the Case of Lucius Quintius and many others To shew that there can be no need of such a change here as you speak of you may please to consider that all differences between the several parts of any Government come upon the account of Interest now when this Settlement is made the House of Peers and the House of Commons can have no Interest to dissent For as to all things of private Interest that is the Rights of Peers both during the sitting of Parliaments and in the Intervals is left to their own House to judge of as it is to the House of Commons to judge of their own Priviledges And as for the contest of the Peers Jurisdiction as to Appeals from Courts of Equity Belides that I would have that setled in the Act which should pass concerning the Lords House I believe it will never happen more when the Government is upon a right Foundation it having been hitherto fomented by two different Parties the Court-party sometimes blowing up that difference to break the Session lest some good Bills for the People should pass or that the King by rejecting them might discontent his People to avoid which Dilemma there needed no more but to procure some person to prosecute his Appeal before the Lords some honest Patriots afterwards possibly might use the same policy which they learnt from the Courtiers to quash some Bill very destructive in which they were out-voted in the Commons House otherwise it is so far from the Interest of the Commons to hinder Appeals from Courts of Equity that there is none amongst them but know we are almost destroyed for want of it And when they have considered well and that some such Reformation as this shall take place they will find that it can never be placed in a more honourable and unbyas'd Judicatory than this And I could wish that even in the Intermission of Parliamentary Sessions the whole Peerage of England as many of them as can conveniently be in Town may sit in their Judicial Capacities and hear Appeals in Equity as well as Judge upon Writs of Errour Now as to your other Objection which is indeed of great weight that the House of Commons must needs take it ill that the Lords should frustrate their endeavours for the Peoples good by their Negative If you consider one thing the force of this Objection will vanish which is That when this new Constitution shall be admitted the Lords cannot have any Interest or temptation to differ with the Commons in any thing wherein the Publick good is concerned but are obliged by all the ties in the World to run the same course and fortune with the Commons their Interest being exactly the same so that if there be any dissenting upon Bills between the two Houses when each of them shall think their own Expedient conduces most to the advantage of the Publick this difference will ever be decided by right reason at Conferences And the Lords may as well convince the Commons as be convinced by them and these contests are and ever will be of admirable use and benefit to the Commonwealth the reason why it is otherwise now and that the House of Peers is made use of to hinder many Bills from passing that are supposed to be for the ease of the People is that the great Counsellors and Officers which sit in that House do suggest whether true or false that it is against his Majesties Will and Interest that such an Act should pass whereupon it has found Obstruction but hereafter if our expedient take place it cannot be so first because our King himself cannot have any designs going as was proved before which shall make it his advantage to hinder any good intended his people whose prosperity then will be his own And then because in a short time the Peers being made by Act of Parliament will consist of the best Men of England both for Parts and Estates and those who are already made if any of them have small Estates the King if he had the Interest would not have the means to corrupt them the Publick Moneys and the great Offices being to be dispensed in another manner than formerly so their Lordships will have no Motive in the World to steer their Votes and Councils but their own Honour and Conscience and the preservation and prosperity of their Country So that it would be both needless and unjust to pretend any change of this kind Besides this alteration in the administration of our Government being proposed to be done by the unanimous consent of King Lords and Commons and not otherwise it would be very preposterous to believe that the Peers would depose themselves of their Hereditary Rights and betake themselves to the hopes of being Elected it is true they have lost the Power they had over the Commons but that has not been taken from them by any Law no more than it was given them by any but is fallen by the course of Nature as has been shewn at large But though they cannot lead the Commons by their Tenures as formerly yet there is no reason or colour that they should lose their Co-ordination which I am sure they have by Law and by the Fundamental Constitution of the Government and which is so far from being prejudicial to a lasting Settlement as was said that it infinitely contributes to it and prevents the Confusion which would destroy it If I should have proposed any thing in this Discourse which should have Intrenched upon the King 's Hereditary Right or that should have hindred the Majesty and Greatness of these Kingdoms from being represented by his Royal Person I should have made your Story of the Capuchine Fryar very Applicable to me Noble Ven. I see you have not forgiven me that Novel yet but pray give me leave to ask you one Question Why do you make the Election of Great Officers to be by a small secret Council that had been more proper for a Numerous Assembly as it is in most Commonwealths Eng. Gent. It is so in Democracies and was so in Sparta and is done by your Great Council in Venice but we are not making such a kind of Government but rectifying an ancient Monarchy and giving the Prince some help in the Administration of that great Branch of his Regality besides it is sufficient that our Parliament chuses these Councils that is always understood the Lords and Commons with the Kings Consent besides it is possible that if such