THE FORMER answere published by the B. of Eureux vpon the Chalenge made vnto him by the said Plessis CHAP. IV. WHEN I had vnderstood gentle Reader the L. B. of Eureux gaue forth that the places of the fathers quoted by me in my books were falsely cited I sent him a certayne Chalenge wrytten and subscribed by my owne hand of the date of the 20. of March 1600. The which since that time the said B. hath caused to be printed published though I sent the same to him priuately by the way of his owne brother Heerevpon notwithstanding my L. Bishopp hath caused to be printed a certayne aduertisment to the Reader of the date of the 25. of March the which is now cryed about the streets in this citty and this in steed of sendinge me his priuate answere by the same way I sent to him Iudge Reader whether in matter of prouocation for so he calleth my chalenge this manner of proceeding be to be receaued and not rather subiect vnto sinister interpretation Yet notwithstanding the euent perhaps will make men iudge better of his intention whervnto willingly I reserue my selfe And of this my priuate chalenge to him as of one particular man to another he maketh by by a publike defiance of one part to another as they which in an army do make their priuate quarrells to be the publike cause of the whole natioÌ„ Iudge heere againe Reader of this manner of proceeding in a conference of Religion the which should tend to reniute and ioyne togeather mens mynds and not to disunite their affections Consequently he flyeth the examination vnto the which I do submitt my books before the K. deputyes from leafe to leafe and from lyne to lyne and fayneth that he feareth the wearynesse of the deputyes Iudge heere againe Reader yf this triall may be made with more comodity or lesse labour then I haue offered Wherfore to this againe I answere that we will hould heerin so easy short method of triall that I dare bragg that this other paine shal be turned into pleasure most gretefull But that which greueth him neyther can he dissemble yt is that he feareth as he saith that of some false citations whose falshood is lesse euident if he passe them ouer I wil take witnesse as though they granted them to the preiudice of the Catholike Church But the truth is that he doubteth least by his flyinge of my manifest verityes I will make a preiudice against his cauillations calumniations For seeing this difference betweene vs may be decyded by only true readinge of that which is wrytten what means shall I haue in this triall to deceaue the iudgment or rather the sight of the deputyes He skyrmisheth finally sayinge that he will shew me 500. false citations by number but men will not easily beleeue him who know that such bragging without effect hath continued already 20. yeares and more And therfor heervnto I haue but one word to answere which is that when we meete we shall see what he can doe And therfore not to make many words which serue for nothinge but to put of the things themselues I will notwithstandinge all this take myne offer as accepted by him And euen now to this intent I haue intreated my L. Mareshall of Bouillon who goeth to take his leaue of the K. at his pallace of Boys de Vincens to present vnto his Maiestie my most humble request to this effect by the which I do beseech this Maiestie that it will please him to ordaine some deputyes to the end aboue mentioned Which petition if it please God to prosper and blesse I hope it wil proue a good preamble for some greater designment worthy the magnanimity of our King towards some holy reformation of the Church in his Kingdome by the meanes wherof we shall see in this our one only King three most great Emperours and their vertues represented to wit a Caesar in conqueringe an Augustus in pacifyinge of his estate one that flieth higher then any Constantine in restoringe the whole Church of Christendome by the example of his owne reformed Kingdome This our requeste recommended by me to the said L. Mareshall was yesterday the last of March so earnestly by him presented to his Maiestie as by his answere he giueth me no small hope that very soone he will giue vs meanes to effectuate our desires And the more to hasten the matter I haue againe this morninge intreated most humbly his Maiestie by my letters so as now there remaineth nothing but to beseech the same of God as I do withall my hart for his glory for the instruction of his people And so heerafter an end of al words about this matter Wrytten at Paris the first of April 1600. Plessis HItherto are the chalenges answers and replies of these two partyes which the K. Maiestie hauinge pervsed and seeing so great shew and confidence to be in both for entring the combatt he gaue very nobly Christianly his royall assent thervnto as by the ensuing letters of the whole fact circumstances therof doth appeare And finding presently some relenting and drawing backe in the one party as by the said letters yow shall see he further layd his full commandement vpon them both for performance of their offers and consequently the triall was made at Fontayne-bleaâ— some foure or fiue dayes after in the presence of his Maiestie Princes of bloud with many of the greatest nobility with those particularityes which the said ensuing letters will represent vnto yow But yet before all I haue thought good to sett downe the K. owne letter though short and briefe yet very substantiall and pithy relatinge very prudently in few words the successe of that triall with the good effect that might be hoped therof for conuersion of many Protestants that are not peruerse and willfull It was wrytten at Fontayne-bleau where the meeting was the very day of the triall and for the worthinesse therof and due respect to so great a personage yt shall go both in French English for them that vnderstand both languages COPPIE DES LETTRES DV ROY A MONSIEVR D' ESPERNON CHAP. V. Mon amy LEdiocese d' Eureux agaigne celuy de Saumur la doulceur dont onâ—y a procedâ— oste â—occasion a quelque Huguenot que cesoit de dire que rien y eut force que la verité Ce porteur y ostoit qui vous contera comme i'y ay faict merueilles Certes c ' est vn des plus grands coups pour l' Eglise de Dieu qui s' est faict ily long temps suyuant l' eclarcissement de cest erreur Nous rammeinerons plus de separez de l' Eglise en vn an que par toute autre voy en cinquante Il y a vn long discours d'vn chascun qui seroit trop long a discourir par escript Il vous dira la façon
side began as hath byn said to enter into another cogitation to thinke whether yt were not best by this occasion to seeke out the truth of matters indeed and that without pertinacity or passion for so much as yt was a matter concerninge the eternall saluation or damnation of their soules And this happy course amonge others tooke as in part before yow haue vnderstood the aforsaid noble man of Normandy Monsieur Sainct-Mary du Mont who being a great Protestant before was first moued towards Catholike Religion partly by the Sermons of Monsieur Buchage brother to Duke Ioyeus made afterward a Capuchin friar as hath byn declared which Sermons were principally against the falsifications of Plessis in his booke against the Masse partly also by the sight of some of the said falsifications themselues shewed vnto him in priuate by the said B. of Eureux before the conference but he was fully conuerted by the trialll it selfe and became afterward a zealous Catholike But more notorious and admirable was the conuersion of the L. Fresnes Canay cheife president for the Protestant party in the parlament Chamber called Demy party in Languedocke chosen by Monsieur Plessis himselfe for chiefe deputy on his party for this conferēce who taking the same course in enforminge himselfe found matters so euident as he became a Catholike vpon the sight of this triall and that with such feruour as he would not be absolued secretly of his heresie before held as for respect vnto his dignity and place was offered but would needs abiure publikely in the hands of the B. of Paris and so he did being a very learned man in his profession at this day is Embassadour for his Christian Maiestie with the State of Venice where his wife in like manner the last yeare by his owne especiall meanes she being a Lady of much nobility was conuerted also both of them remayned most zealous Catholiks Which two examples of Monsieur Sainct-Mary and Mousieur President Fresnes both of them being learned and earnest Protestants all their life before did greatly mooue the King himselfe for his comfort and confirmation in Catholike Religion but no one thing so much as his being present at the forsaid Conference and so he is said to haue often confessed afterward for that he saw there that which he could neuer haue imagined to witt that men of learning iudgment would willfully for maintayninge of faction wryte and publish that which they must needs know in their consciences to be false He cōsidered that these 9. places there examined were picked out by Plessis himselfe of 60. sent him by the Bishop and that these 60. were but a parcell of 500. which the said B. had bound himselfe to exhibite in 10. dayes to be discussed and that by all probability the forsaid 9. were of the least falsified and easiest to be defended of all the rest at least wise of the first 60. for that otherwise Monsieur Plessis would not haue chosen them Wherfore hauinge seene by experience that no one of those 9. was able to be defended from plaine and willfull falshood he imagined what would fall out in the rest if the conference had gone forward and if all should passe as in these 9. throughout the 500. there ready to be exhibited yea in 3500. more which the Bishop said he had gathered out and offered to bynd himselfe to conuince them of no lesse falsity and imposture then those nyne and all this out of one boooke These things I say laid togeather his Maiestie had good cause to thinke what may be thought of that mans conscience that wryteth and printeth such a booke in matters of Religion Moreouer his Maiestie could not but remember what tales the said Plessis and other such fellowes had told him against Catholiks Catholike Religion for many yeares whilst he was yet a Protestant to witt that they had no truth on their side no antiquity noe true ancient authority but all was for them and their new pretended Religio◠He could not forgett also what sollemne protestations they were accustomed to make of their owne sincerity both in wrytinge and preachinge and especially Plessis in this last contētion about his booke before yt came to the tryall offering to leese his life and honour yea to burne his owne hand yf any one place were proued to be wittingly corrupted or falsified which yet was so euidently conuinced by the triall not in one only but in euery one of the nine places as no man of reason could deny yt and the deputyes of his owne party gaue sentence against him Wherfore this hauing so fallen out and the Bishop of Eureux protestinge of his side that the places of greatest corruption remayned yet behind aboue twenty fold more in number then those that had byn examined seing also the shamfull flight of Monsieur Plessis from the continuation of the combatt and the shamelesse discourse cast abroad by him without a name wherin many matters of fact well knowne to his Maiesty were denied affirmed or disguised according to passion most contrary to the knowne reall truth therof All these considerations I say many other concurring togeather and representing themselues to his Maiesties wisdome made him to feele infinite comfort in the happy resolution he had taken of being a Catholike and to contemne from that day forward all contentious wrytings of factious sectaryes that care not what they say or wryte so they may therby hould vp their sect and faction Neyther did this euent of Plessy Mornayes conferēce worke those effects only for the openinge his Maiesties eyes and vnderstanding in Religion but of many more besides throughout France wherof though I be not so particularly informed as many others bee yet diuers persons of marke could I name besides the former two that receaued like light grace from almighty God by the same meanes and of great Hugonots became good Catholiks as the L. Baron Saligniac Liefetennant for the K. of the countrey of Lymoge togeather with his wife daughter of the Chauncelour intituled Del Hospital and sister to the Archbishopp of Ais. The L. Baron du Bonneuald a great noble man in Lymosin togeather with another Baron of Gascoigne whose name occurreth not at this present though I haue seene the narration of his conuersion wrytten out of France Monsieur du Sansay Entendent ouer the Kings Finances in France Diuers cheefe learned men also and among them some Ministers as namely Monsieur Caiette late Minister and Preacher to the Kings sister marryed to the Prince of Loraine togeather with diuers of her cheefe officers amongst which was Monsieur du lac de Barn Monsieur Rebeul Monsieur Sponde th' elder two great learned men and another Sponde brother to the former no lesse learned who at this day hath the care of the Popes library in Rome togeather with a nephew of Iohn Caluyn conuerted entertayned like wise by his
que ie suis d'auis que mes seruiteurs tiennent pour tirer fruict de ce saincte oeuure Bon soir mon amy Sachant le plaisir que vous en aurez Vous estes seul a qui l'on le mande Le 5. de May. 1600. Henry Au dessus de la lettre A mon Cousin le Duc d' Espernon THE COPIE OF THE K. OF FRANCE HIS FORMER LETTER TO the Duke of Espernon concerninge the late triall had betwene the B. of Eureux and the Lord Plessis translated into English CHAP. VI. MY Friend The Diocesse of Eureux hath ouercome the Diocesse of Saumur and the sweet manner of proceedinge that hath byn vsed hath taken away all occasion to any Hugenot whatsoeuer he be to say that any force hath byn vsed beside the only force of truth The bearer heerof was present at the combatt who will informe yow what maruayles I haue done therin Certanily it is one of the greatest blowes that hath byn giuen for the Church of God this long while for the manifestation of this error By this meanes we shall reduce more in one yeare of them that are separated from the Church then by any other way in 50. yeares There were a large discourse to be made of each of their actioÌ„s but the same were to long to wryte The bearer shall tell you the manner which I would haue all my seruants to obserue for reapinge fruite of this holy worke Good night my friend And for that I know what pleasure yow will take heerof yow are the only man to whome I haue wrytten yt This 5. of May. 1600. Henry The superscription To my Cosyn the Duke of Espernon EXTRICT DV POSTSCRIPTVM DE LA LETTRE DE CELVY QVI enuoy a ceste Coppie dela lettre du Roy a Rome CHAP. VII Monsieur Iâ— vous enuoyé la coppie de la lettre du Roy qu'il a enuoyé a Monsieur d'Espernon sur la dispute de l'Euesque d'Eureux contre du Plessi-Mornay pour verifier son liure qui s'est de tout trouué faulx s'en est allé cacher comme vn regnard Dieu conduise tout a bonne fin a sa gloire salut des ames An extract of the Postscript of the letter of him that sent this coppy of the forsaid K. letter to the French Embassadour in Rome My Lord. I do send yow heere the coppy of the Kings letter wrytten to the Duke of Espernon about the disputation of the B. of Eureux against Plessis Mornay for iustifyinge of his booke found altogeather false and he is gone to hide him selfe like a Fox God conduct all to a good end for his glory and saluation of mens soules Thus much do wryte the King and his secretary the one to the Duke of Espernon the other to Monsieur Sylary Embassador in Rome both of them present at the conference The Kings letter as yow see is very substantiall yt seemeth his Maiestie was greatly moued himselfe by the seeing and hearing of this combatt For so much as he affirmeth so resolutely that yt was one of the greatest blowes that had byn geuen for the Church of God a long while for discouering the erroneous proceedings of Protestants The secretary also auoucheth as yow see the falshood found in Mornayes booke and that for shame therof he was gone to hide himselfe like a Fox Now shall yow heare three other letters relating more particularly the circumstances of this conference with the Acts successe therof though all very breifely in respect of the Acts themselues THE COPIE OF THE LETTER OF MONSIEVR PERON B. OF EVREVX to the L. Silary Embassadour for the K. of France in Rome the 10. of May 1600. CHAP. VIII My Lord. AT length the victory of the combat betwixt the L. Plessis and me remayneth to the Catholike Church and after many tergiuersations which he vsed for the space of 5. or 6. dayes at Fontayne-bleau I sent him on wednesday the third of May threescore falsifications taken out of his booke to begin the play withall for him to prepare himselfe to answere the next day Of them he chose out 19. the which he went told the King the next day that he had chosen forth examined and found true and that he would loose his life yf any one of them were proued to be falsely cited After dynner the same day in the same place he came forth in the presence of his Maiestie and of 7. or 8. Princes and of the L. Chancelour of France and other officers of the crowne and Counsellors of State Where first his Maiestie declared both by himselfe and by the L. Chancelour that he would not in any wise that in this confereÌ„ce should be handled any point of Catholike Religion wherof he doubted nothinge and knew also that the iudgment therof pertained vnto the Sea Apostolike but only of the particular busynes of the L. of Plessis whether he had falsified the texts of the Fathers or no I added that when Hunnericus K. of the Vandalâ—s would haue had the Catholiks dispute with the Arrians Eugenius Archbishopp of Carthage as Victor of Vtica rehearseth answered that he could not do yt without the consentment of other Bishopps chiefly of the Church of Rome which is head of all others that this my entring into the present conference was not for that I bare lesse respect vnto the Seat Apostolike then that holy Bishop did But because there was no questions of Religion heere to be discussed but only to shew the falsifications of the L. Plessis about the which I was well content to haue the iudgment of the assistants for as much as appertained to the knowledg of Grammer to witt whether the L. Plessis had corrupted the words of the authors or no but not as touching points of diuinity the which the K. Maiestie had already very wisely forbidden vs to treat for that he will not heerin follow the example of K. of Iuda which vsurped the incensour and the function of priesthood but rather of Constantyne Theodose and other religious Emperors in remittinge the decision of Ecclesiasticall matters vnto the Church This done we began to dispute I began to obiect vnto him those places which himselfe had chosen out amongst threescore sent to him by me the day before following therin the same order that he had taken in choosing them out the which all were conuinced of falshood in order as they were proposed sentence was pronounced against him vpon euery place by the heretiks themselues which assisted him there and all with one voyce condemned him The King in this conference hath shewed himselfe so wise so intelligent so affectionate so zealous taking vp the argument against him at euery occasion and pressing him by disputation and so conuincing him of diuers falshoods as he hath shewed manifestly his witt and affection towards the Catholike Religion admirable
themselues Concerning which Acts yow are to consider that about some two or three monethes after the said conference at Fountayne-bleau that is to say in the moneth of August wheras this conference was made vpon the fourth of May in the same yeare 1600. the Catholiks remayninge quiett and content with the victory of truth that had fallen out in their fauour Monsieur Plessis and his Hugonote Ministers hauinge departed and broken vp the said conference in the manner and sort which a little after yow shall heare and findinge themselues extreemely gauled with so dishonourable an euent resolued for some remedy to sett forth a certayne discourse in French without name of the Author the Title heerof was A true discourse of the conference held at Fountayne-bleau c. In which discourse they endeauoured to handle three thinges First touchinge the history of matters passed therin carpinge bitterly heere and theere both at the King and Chancelour and other Assistants Iudges as disfauourable and partiall in many points against them and their cause which is refuted by the defender to witt and B. of Eureux himselfe by the publike Acts and records of the conference and be the depositions of 200. persons as presently yow shall heare him affirme Secondly they diuised vpon better deliberation new defences for the points wherin they had byn condemned in the conference as both the Arrians did after the Councell of Nice wherin they were condemned and the Donatists after their conference with the Catholiks at Carthage and as euery man condemned at our English barres would do yf they might haue replyes allowed them after their condemnations The third point of euasion vsed by them is recrimination that is to say to shew that others also do falsifie besides them and haue vsed fraud in their quotations which though yt were true as in the particulars obiected is shewed by the defender that they are all false yet were it no honourable defence as each man will confesse And this is the summe of that discourse and the confutation therof Now then for so much as Plessis and his frends had published this false discourse yt was thought good by the K. his Councell vpon request of the Catholiks that the authenticall Acts of the said conference and all particularityes passed therin and taken fourth by seuerall publike notaryes appointed for that purpose before hand and one of them of the new religion should be examined anew vpon the depositions as well of the said notaryes as also of 200. more and so published to the world which was done and the whole presented to the K. by the B. of Eureux vpon the 29. of August in the same yeare 1600. which epistle for that it is short very substantiall I haue thought good to relate heere for a foundation of all that is to â—ollow for creditt of the Acts themselues Thus then he wryteth to the King himselfe that was present and an eye-witnesse of all To the Kinge Sire I would neuer haue beleeued that so publike renowned an action as that of the conference at Fountayne-bleau represented in one of the most illustrious Theaters of the world and adorned with the presence of your Maiestie of so many Princes officers of the crowne Counsellours of Estate and other Lords nobles of great marke could haue bin called in question or that any man could haue byn found that will dare to take vpoÌ„ him to peruert or disguise the knowne verity therof for which cause I haue abstayned hitherto to wryte any thinge of that matter least by publishinge my priuate testimony therof I should seeme to enfeeble the depositions of 200. persons of more authenticall creditt then myne owne but yet seeing now that Monsieur du Plessis contrary to the saith and witnesse of so many eyes eares as were there present and contrary to the testimony both of the mouth and pen of your Maiestie hath cast forth into the field a certayne new discourse wherin by his eloquence of Peâ—icles he will needs go about to persuade those that were present at the Conference coÌ„trary to that which they saw and those that were absent contrary to that which so credibly they haue heard I haue thought coÌ„uenient by your Maiesties permission to lend him the paines of a few dayes labour for settinge forth the true description of the fact it selfe as yt passed and therby to dissolue all his cunninge illusions and inchauntments Wherfore Soueraigne Lord I do offer heerâ— vnto your Maiestie the simple verity of the history as she lyeth in the Acts in her naturall white habyt without colours or paintings most humbly beseechinge your highnesse that yow will vouchsafe to see the same or cause yt to be seene and examined by such of whose wisdome grauity your Maiestie standeth most assured and yf it shal be found to be such as heere I do qualifie yt that then permission may be giuen to publish the same for a faithfull image and representation to posterity of that which there fell out And yf Monsieur du Plessis do hold himselfe content with that which passed in this conference he hath in his hands other 52. articles to be examined as the remnant of those 60. which were agreed vpon for the first Conference from which he departed without bidding any man fare well and hath had tyme inough since that to study better vpon them I for my part am ready to giue him the same exercise vpon the said articles as I did vpon the other 9. handled at Fountayne bleau and after these ended to come to the other that do remaine of the 500. falsifications which I haue bound my selfe to proue against him and so much the more willingly would I passe to the examination of those other articles by how much more graue the authors are and the matters more important his deprauations more enormous then those we haue handled as chosen out by himselfe and in the meane space I shall lifte vp my hands to heauen pray almighty God to continue his grace towards your Maiesty from better to better and to establish his Kingdome togeather with yours c. At Condie this 29. of August 1600. This was the letter and request of the B. of Eureux for examination and publishinge of the Acts whervnto the K. agreeing coÌ„mytted the reuew therof vnto certayne of his Counselle which had byn present at the said conference and findinge the same to be sincere and true in all respects as his Maiestie testifieth gaue order for the publication therof by his letters patents signed at Lyons in France the 22. of December 1600. Wherfore out of these acts as most true and authenticall I shall frame this my defence though very breifely against the extrauagant ouerlashings of O. E. in his answere who saith denyeth at his pleasure without authority wyttnesse reason or probability as after shall appeare by that which ensueth WHAT IS CONTEYNED MORE IN
PRINT ABOVT THE fact it selfe of the Conference had at Fountayne-bleau then is comprehended in my former Relation CHAP. I. FOR that my briefe narration before recited was founded only vpon certayne letters sent from Paris to Rome presently after the conference had as by pervsing therof yow haue seene and my purpose also was to be very briefe I could not sett downe so many particularityes as these acts do now represent yet do I find that whatsoeuer I related before is now confirmed againe by these acts and diuers things added wherof some principall I shall heere touch in few words cytinge the leafe of the said Acts wherin they may be read more largely The title of the said Acts is this Actes de la conference tenue c. Acts of the conference held betweene the L. Bishop of Eureux and the L. Plessis in presence of the King at Fountayne-bleau the fourth of May 1600. published by the permission and authority of his Maiestie c. the same yeare 1600. And thus much of the title now to the contents The first occasion of this combatt sett downe in these Acts is that vpon the 20. day of March anno 1600. a great noble man of Normandy named Lord Sainct-Mary du Mont a Protestant at that tyme but soone after conuerted meetinge with Monsiear Plessis at the lodginge of the Lady Princesse of Orange in Paris told him how he was cryed out of euery where about the falsifications found in his booke lately printed against the Masse that himselfe had seene some shewed vnto him by the B. of Eureux which he could not solue Heervpon Monsieur Plessis thinkinge himselfe touched greatly in honour did iudge yt the best way to make a publike Chalenge to the said B. of Eureux which he wrote and gaue abroad the very same day and the L. Sainct-Mary sent one of them presently to the B. wherevnto he made answere acceptinge of his Chalenge vpon the 25. of March which letters before I haue alleaged and soone after the said Bishopp thinking yt conuenient to print and publish the same did so and sent a copy therof to the King togeather with a letter of his owne hand of the 28. of March wherin amongst other words he saith thus I do send vnto your Maiestie a Chalenge of Monsieur Plessis made about the examen of his allegations in his booke against the Masse togeather with my answere to the same I should be vnworthy to serue so great and noble a King and of so high courage at your Maiestie is yf I should refuse such a Chalenge especially in a quarrell that may be ended without bloud and tend much to the glory of almighty God and to the saluation os him that shal be ouercome and therfore I do most humbly beseech your Maiestie to permitt this triall c. Heervpon Monsieur Plessis vnderstandinge that the B. had wrytten to the King he wrote also another to his Maiestie to the same effect returned likewayes an answere to the Bishop shewinge himselfe willinge to goe forward in the said triall but with diuers exceptions and diuersions as in the said letter appeareth which we haue related before The King hauinge receaued these letters from both partyes and conferred the same with his Counsell resolued to permitt the triall demaunded as also to be present theratt himselfe and so gaue order to the L. Chancelour of France vpon the second of Aprill to warne the partyes to prepare themselues and to be ready for the beginninge of the next moneth with all prouision necessary for that Triall In the meane space the Popes Nuntius that lay in Paris hearinge of an appointment for triall of matters in Religion began to make some difficulty to permitt any such publike act appertayning to the vniuersall cause of Christendome without licence and approbation of the Sea Apostolike and proofe of the persons that must dispute alleaginge that it was a thinge inconuenient to lay the creditt of so great and generall a cause of Religion vpon the learning of any particular man whatsoeuer without necessity But when he was answered by the B. and after by the K. himselfe and others that their meaninge was not to dispute of controuersies but only to examine places cited by Monsieur Plessis whether they were truly and faithfully calleaged or no and that this should be sett downe and obserued as the first law of this conference the Nuntius was satisfied and so the day was appointed his Maiestie commandinge expressely that the conference should be made with all sweetnesse and courtesie c. So in the meane space diuers things were set in order necessary for that conference as namely for choosinge the iudges on both sides and principall assistance without all partiality to witt learned wise and graue men to the end that all might passe with indifferency loue and charity as much as might bee namely for the Catholiks was chosen the president of Tou a great learned man vpright constant and a neere kinsman and frend to Monsieur Plessis The second was Monsieur Pitheu aduocate in the Court of Parlament of Paris a man both graue and generally well learned and a â—amiliar frend also to Monsieur Plessis The third was Monsieur le Feure Maister of the Prince of Condie And on the other side were named the President Calignon Chauncelour of Nauarre and the Lord de Fresne Canaye president of the Chamber of Parlament appointed for them of the new Religion in Languidoc and Monsieur Cazaubon Reader of his Maiestie in Paris all earnest learned and iuditious Protestants The K. departed from Paris the 21. of Aprill to Fountayne bleau to hold there the confereÌ„nce leauing order with the L. Chancelour that the next weeke followinge he with the rest of the iudges and deputyes should follow and bringe the B. of Eureux with them so they did arriuing at Fountayne-bleau the 27. of Aprill and the next day arriued also Monsieur Plessis but brought no books with him sayinge that he had not byn warned to do so and so the next day after that againe he presented a new petition to the Kinge in wrytinge by the Chancelour askinge 4. thinges which his Maiestie caused presently to be conferred with the B. to take his answere thervnto The first was that wheras the B. had giuen outâ— that he had obserued aboue 4000. falsifications in his booke Against the Masse and therby infamed the same that yt might be examined page by page and leafe by leafe as before he had demaunded but the B. refused this for the same reasons which he had alleaged before in his letter to Monsieur Plessis principally for that yt was but a refuge to draw out tyme he well knowinge that yt would neuer be ended The second demaund was that all such places of his booke as the B. did not accuse of falsity might be esteemed as allowed and approued after this conference But
this also the B. said was no reason for that perhapps other men would find other faults in other places which he had not examined and that after these first 500. now obiected were examined he offered to be bound to go ouer his whole booke page by page and lyne by lyne as Plessis desired The third petition was that if this might not be graunted that at least the Bishopp would giue him in wrytinge the first 500. places that he had noted togeather with his proofes against the same and that he might haue tyme to examine them before hands to cutt of long disputes before his Maiestie But to this the Bishopp aunswered in like manner that if he did so the other would aske so much tyme to examine them as he would delude this conference now appointed Wherfore he offered that yf the present triall might go forward he would send him 50. places the day before to prouide himselfe for the first day and so 50. the next day for the second conference and so forth for 10. dayes togeather vntill all the 500. were examined The fourth demaund was that the same order might be held in examininge his booke which he had held in wrytinge the same to witt beginninge from the first part therof c. But this also the Bishopp refused sayinge that it was only a shift for that Plessis comonly had haÌ„dled only light points in the first part of his booke wheron it was no reason to stand and leese tyme but rather as an accuser he might begin where he would and that Plessis was bound to aunswere him yet for the last vpshott to end all he offered the King to giue the whole 500. places presently into his Maiesties hands in wrytynge so to take them from him euery day by 50. at once to be examined in ten dayes as is afore said and after this he said he would bynd himselfe to remaine a whole moneth with him in Paris or els where he should thinke best to examine the rest of the 4000. After this vpon the second day of May all the iudges and comissaryes being now arriued except the President Calignon that remained sicke in Paris Monsieur Plessis gaue vp another Memoriall to the King requyring yet once againe that the Bishop would giue him in wrytinge the 500. places gathered against him or at least wayes deliuer them vp into the hands of the Iudges with commission that yf this conference were broken of they should deliuer them into the hands of the said Plessis and that duringe the conference they should deliuer him only 50. a day Whervpon the King calling the Bishop into his great gallery in the presence of the Chancelour and of Monsieur Rosny president of the finances as also of the president of Tou Cazaubon and others asked him why he would not yeld to this demaund whervnto he answered as before saying that this was but a new delay therby to gett into his hands the whole 500. places and then to seeke to answere them rather by wrytinge then by present confereÌ„ce which he might breake of by diuers occasions yf once he were sure to haue therby the places into this hands and therfore he desired his Maiestie to admitt no further delayes now but that the appointed triall might go forward which being once ended he promised most faithfully that he would stay to examine the whole booke as longe as his Maiestie should appoint or Plessis desire Whervpon the Lords present as well Protestants as Catholiks said that the Bishopp had good reason in his answers to Plessis his demaunds and thervpon the Chancelour was coÌ„manded by the King to goe pronounce this arrest vnto the said L. Plessis and that yf he would not go forward as he had promised his Maiestie would take another course proceed to the examination of his booke in his absence which message the Chancelour hauing done Plessis answered that he could not accept of yt wherat the Chancelour told him that he should looke well to his creditt for that if he should be found to be a falsifier in matters of diuinity his booke condemned in his absence yt would be a great shame vnto him whervnto the other replayed that he had rather yt should be condeÌ„ned vniustly in his absence then in his presence which answere being carried to the K. by the Chancelour his Maiestie commaunded that the examine should begin that very afternoone at three of the clocke but after vpon other busines that fell out it was deferred vntill the next day at 7. of the clocke in the morning which determinatioÌ„ of the K. being knowne there was great dealing with his Maiestie by diuers of the pretended Religion that the matter should not go forward and new articles demaunds were proposed in the behalfe of Monsieur Plessis and namely two noble men Protestants named Castelnau Chambaret as also the president Fresne Canay cheefe deputy of their side tooke in haÌ„d to deale betwene the King Plessis the Bishop after many goings commings messages answers replyes it was agreed that the B. should giue him presently 60. places in wryting of the 500. promised to prepare himselfe for the next day which the Bishop did out of those 60. Plessis chose 19. which seemed to him most defencible with which he weÌ„t to the King protesting as followeth Syr of the 60. passages sent me by the Bishop of Eureux I haue had tyme only to examine and verifie 19. and of these I will leese my honour and life yf he fynd one false I shall proue my selfe this day before your Maiestie to be another manner of man then he esteemeth me These were his words Which being heard the King sent presently for the Bishop and gaue him the list of the 19. places which Plessis had chosen to defend which list when the Bishopp had read he tould the King the deputyes that stood present with him that he found deceatfull dealinge in euery point for that these 60. places being gathered in hast and tumultuously as his Maiestie knew himselfe in lesse then halfe an houres space by his commandemeÌ„t out of certaine loose papers where aboue 800. corruptions were noted of Monsieur Plessis and put togeather as they lay in order he had chosen to defend them not as they stood in the Catalogue but by particular election to witt the 27. 39. 44. 50. 53. 56. c. And whereas there were most of the ancient fathers named in this list as corrupted by him only two schoolmen among the rest for example sake to witt Scotus and Durandus he had guiâ—fully placed them in the first ranke of his 19. placed to begin withall as captaynes of the rest therby to disauthorize the whole conference and to weary the hearers as though the cheefe moment of the triall had byn about Scotus and Durandus The K. answered that it should be good to giue
contentment to Plessis and those of his party wherein it might be for which cause he said further as before that he desired this conference might passe with all quietnesse possible and that the Bishop should abstayne as much as he could from vsing the word false or falsification and other such like as might be offensiue for that his intent was to pacifie and gaine men by this triall and not to exasperate And the same he said also vnto the Lords deputyes there present requiring them that yf they should see any man wax into bitternesse choler they should restraine him seeke to end all with good words and substantiall matter After dynner about one of the clocke the said conference was begone in presence of his Maiestie and of a great number of the cheefe nobles of France which were long to name for before the K. satte the L. Chancelour and the deputyes of both partyes before named and at his right hand satt the Archbishopp of Lyons and sundry other Bishopps and on his left hand the 4. secretaryes of State behind the King sate the Princes namely the Dukes of Vaudemont Nemeurs Mercury Dumayne Niuers Elbeuse Aignilon Ianuile and others and after them againe the officers of the crowne Counselors of State and others of the nobility and about 200. other hearers within the chamber aboue 500. in a gallery and garden without expecting the resolutiō from passage to passage wherof there were many Protestants and diuers Ministers of the new Keligion All being sett the L. Chancelour made first a briefe speech confirmed afterward by the King himselfe that the meaning of this meeting was to try out the truth of certaine allegations that were called in controuersy in the L. Plessis booke and not to dispute of any article of Religion at all to which effect also the Bishop had a breefe speech alleaging the example of Eugenius Archbishop of Carthage who being required by Hunnericus King of the Vandalls in Africa to dispute with the Arrians he refused the same without consent of other Bishopps and especially of the B. of Rome as head of all Monsieur Plessis also made a very short preface saying that as he had wrytten his books with intent to do God seruice for the reformation of his Church and would thinke himselfe happy yf he could help any thing therin so was he so farre of from all intention of willfull falsifyinge that yf he knew his right hand to haue done yt he should be the first to burne the same He made mention againe and shewed greefe that 4. thousand places should be noted as falsified by him in his booke and finally protested that howsoeuer it succeded with him his cause was particular and touched not the reformed Churches in France which were before him and would be after him c. The B. repeated againe the matter of 4000. places corrupted and offered to stand vnto yt and to verifie them as well as those 500. new agreed vpon and repeated againe breifely the whole story of this action and how guilfully Plessis had proceeded in cullinge out 19. places only of 60. offered him and of these had put in the first ranke Scotus and Durand two schoolemen about the controuersie of the Sacrament leauing out other places of S. Cyprian S. Cyrill S. Chrisostome other ancient Fathers obiected to haue bin corrupted by him in the very same controuersie of the reall presence amongst the number of these three score which fraud to the end the iudges and deputyes might see and behould he laid downe vpon the table that stood before them the whole Catalogue of the said 60. places sent the day before to Plessis which being done the King comaunded the foure secretaryes of the crowne to wryte only the conclusions and iudgments that should be giuen and not the whole speaches for yt would be ouerlonge and so the conference began the B. sayinge at the opening of the first booke Domine labi◠mea aperies os meum annunciabit laudem tuam Monsieur Plessis also prayed briefly with his hatt before his face c. OF NINE PLACES EXAMINED IN THIS FIRST DAYES conference and how they were all iudged by sentence of the deputyes to haue byn corrupted by Monsieur Plessis CHAP. II. IN this first dayes conference which endured 6. houres there could be examined only 9. places of the 19. which Plessis had chosen to defend of which nine also the first two by his art and fraude as in the former Chapter hath byn seene were of 2. schoolemen or scholasticall wryters Scotus and Durandus which being only named for exāple sake by the B. of Eureux in his catalogue of 60. places but yet after many more important then they of the anciēt Fathers which Plessis thought good to thrust backe all the said ancient Fathers and namely S. Cyprian S. Cyrill of Ierusalem S. Iohn Christostome and others cited in the same controuersie and many more in other questions to aduāce forward to the first second places of triall the said Scotus and Durandus thinking therby partly to weary his Maiesty the audience and to make the conference lothsome and contemptible by so base a beginning partly also presuming that he might more easily trifle out the tyme in wranglinge about these as he did a whole houre about the first place only of Scotus and would haue done the whole day yf he might haue byn permitted but the Bishop discouering this fraud vnto the auditorye shewed withall that his deceyt and false dealing was all one in corrupting meane authors as the best and greatest therfore that it was not so much to be cōsidered by the iudges what the wryter was that was falsified but how much with how great fraud he is falsifyed And with this they passed to the particulars The first place examined out of Scotus about the reall presence This preamble being made the B. began to read out of Plessis booke pag. 869. accordinge to his forsaid edition in 4. printed at Rochell by Hierome Hautin these words out of Scotus about the Sacrament of the Altar Iohn Duns saith he called Scot almost 100. yeares after the Councell of Lateran was not afraid to call in question if the body of Christ be really conteyned vnder the species or accidents of bread and he disputeth that it is not and his arguments are for that the quantity doth not permitt yt nor yet the locality and circumscription annexed to the nature of a true body such a one as Christ had c. Thus he And then for proofe he quoteth in the margent Scotus vpon the 4. booke of Sentences dist 10. quaest 1. Out of which place the B. did inferre two willfull and malitious deceyts of Plessis the first that he would make his Reader beleeue that Scotus the rest of the Schoolemen when they propose any matter to be disputed to and fro do doubt of the truth therof
Cyrill were not found in him leauing yt easy to the hearers saith he to inferre that the sense notwithstandinge was to be found in him Which is a great vntruth for that the sentence registred by all 4. secretaryes comprehendeth the whole passage in these words The passage cyted by Monsieur Plessis out of Cyrill is not found in Cyrill which sentence conteyneth as yow see both sense and words And it is a poore shift of Plessis to go about to help himselfe by so childish an inference as for that they gaue sentence that the words alleaged by him were not in Cyrill yt might be inferred that the sense was After this the Bishopp sheweth diuers other grosse vntruthes in this kind as namely that in reportinge the sentence of the Chancelour and deputyes vpon the last place examined out of Theodorete about Idolls he falsely peruerteth the same leauing out the principall important words of the said sentence to witt adored by Paynims and adored for Gods contrary to the faith of the records themselues vniformally taken by all 4. secretaryes then againe to excuse himselfe from a foule disgrace happened in the examination of the first place about the reall presence out of Scotus whose text Plessis could not read he telleth in his discourse this notable lye that the B. of Eureux had vsed a certayne fraudulent sleight to disgrace him which was to bring two editions of Scotus the one fayre to be read which he sent him ouernight with the 60. places to prepare himselfe the other he retayned with him of an euill print which he obtruded to him in the conference But this shamelesse fiction the Bishop refuteth first by the testimony of them that brought backe againe the bookes from Plessis house to the conference and then by the wittnesse of 4. seuerall Frenche gentlemen to witt Monsieur du Bertant du Beaulien du Berulle and du Salettes that came with him from Paris knew that he brought but one only edition of Scotus with him which was in folio of the print of Badius Ascensius in the yeare 1519. and lent vnto him by the college of Sorbone in Paris for this conference which booke being giuen to Plessis to verifie his place alleaged out of him he could not so much as read nor turne the booke for that there were some abreuiations therin after the manner of schoole-doctors and therby all the lookers on and hearers well perceaued that he was vtterly ignorāt in reading schoole-doctors though euery where for ostentation of learning he was accostomed to cyte them in his bookes And this shame Plessis had no other way to couer at that present before all the auditors but to say that he was not practised but in his owne bookes only though afterward vpon more deliberation he thought good to deuise this other shift of changinge the booke by the Bishopp which yet being so malitiously cōuinced of calumniation by the wittnesses before mentioned did exceedingly tend to Plessis discredit And this shall suffice for the first point of Plessis reply wherin yow see that for defence of his 9. places before conuicted of falsification he vttereth 9. other great vntruthes for doublinge the number As for the other two points of new shifts and recrimination I will remitt the Reader to the Bishop his owne refutation for them that vnderstand the french tongue and for the rest yt will not be hard to ghesse by example of this which we haue alleaged what manner of stuffe yt is which Plessis could alleage for his further defence in so manifest conuinced falsifications and yow shall heare presently what O. E. in England can say for him And yf yow find him by this little a man with out faith or spiritt of truth in his assertions then shall yt be wisdome to beware not only of this his booke against the Masse wherout so many falsifications haue byn gathered but of others also wrytten in the same spiritt and namely of one that for many yeares hath gone in English intituled of the Church which being smothely wrytten and stuffed out with great shew and ostentation of Scriptures Fathers Historyes and other such furniture hath dazeled the eyes of many as did also this other against the Masse vntill yt was sifted and examined by learned men But for the other in English I can assure the Reader that yt is a most deceytfull booke and may be well brother to this against the Masse And yt is now very neere twenty yeares gone that the late Earle of Lecester gaue one of them to a kinsman of his named Guilford to read for his satisfactiō in Religion who conferring the same with another learned gentleman a frend of mine desired that yt might be examined which my said frend began to do with such comodity of bookes as he could procure at that tyme and found so full stuffed with all kind of deceatfull impostures and falsifications as he remayned astonished therat and conferred the same with a learned Baron of the Realme now dead and he with another yet liuinge and neere to his Maiesties person who did all wonder at so notorious treachery though th'examē passed not through the greater part of the booke for that it was interrupted by some trouble fallinge to the examiner but he hath affirmed many times since and doth at this day that yt is incredible to beleeue what corrupt dealinge there is therin and exhorteth all those that haue meanes to try the truth of this his assertion which I cannot do at this present for that I haue not the booke by me yet I thought it conuenient to giue a note therof for stayinge of them that haue or may be deceaued therby and for styrringe vp of others to make this examen And so for this tyme we leaue Plessis to himselfe and to his shifts in France and shall passe ouer to consider what O. E. his aduocate can say for him in England WHAT O. E. OTHERWISE MATHEVV SVTCLIFFE HATH wrytten for defence of Plessis Mornay concerning the 9. places handled in the former Conference and how he committeth farre greater faultes then Plessis himselfe CHAP. V. HAVING pervsed what Monsieur Plessis hath byn able to say for himselfe both in the conference and after vpon better deliberation we must now examine briefly what our ould frend O. E. for vnder that vizard he masketh hitherto hath diuised for his defence For that my forsaid breife relation fallinge into his hands he thought yt to appertayne to his manhood as a martiall minister to proclayme himselfe champion in Plessis quarrell therby to fullfill the prouerbe that none so bold as blynd bayard and though he be not able to defend his owne head as after yow shall see from the same or like blowes which Plessis hath receaued yet will he needs be doing intrude himselfe for a shylde to the other and this with such violence or rather virrulency of speche raginge and rauinge at all those