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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A88107 The nevv quere, and determination upon it, by Mr. Saltmarsh lately published, to retard the establishment of the Presbyteriall government, examined, and shewed to be unseasonable, unsound, and opposite to the principles of true religion, and state. Whereunto is annexed a censure of what he hath produced to the same purpose, in his other, and later booke, which he calleth The opening of Master Prinnes Vindication. And an apologeticall narrative of the late petition of the Common Councell and ministers of London to the Honourable Houses of Parliament, with a justification of them from the calumny of the weekly pamphleters. / By John Ley, one of the Assembly of Divines at Westminster. Ley, John, 1583-1662. 1645 (1645) Wing L1885; Thomason E311_24; ESTC R200462 96,520 124

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there are some Independents mingled with many Presbyterian Divines and if the Common Councell of the Citie had not generally concurred to petition for Presbyterie I doubt not but this Nicknaming Newes-maker would in some of his papers make London though already divided into Classicall Presbyteries and united into a Province an Independent City Last of all he saith they daily adventure their lives and many of them have spilt their blood to save our lives and estates and i●t not 〈◊〉 hate them for the good they have done and still doe for us As many as have exposed themselves to such perill and for such a purpose ashere is specified God forbid their zeale and love and courage should be answered with envy or hatred but here is one fallacie in view they that are so kind to their brethren as to shed their own blood that they might sleepe in a whole skinne did not this as Independents but as Christians for many lost their lives before ever Independents were dreamed of it was a rule of Religion that we ought to lay downe our lives for the brethren 1 Ioh. 3.16 And there may be another fallacie lurking under those indefinite expressions they daily adventure c. to save our lives and estates for it is not true of all it may be not of most that those be the motives or ends of their engagements So much for this Question and Answer Now I could wish this Questionist were questioned and that we might know the mind of such as have Authoritie to examine him whether they thought him worthy of Bedlam foe his witlesse rashnesse or of Newgate for his seditious wickednesse Conclusion For Conclusion of this Apologetick Reply to these popular Impostors I shall fairely admonish them to be better advised hereafter then hitherto they have been that they doe not traduce the Innocence of worthy and well deserving Citizens or Ministers to gratifie a party and to abuse the credulity of the Vulgar with untruths as opprobrious to the one side as vain-glorious to the other For since they are discovered to be weekely journey men in the service of a schismaticall designe and to carry it on with intolerable contumely to venerable Societies and with insinuations and incentives to sedition against the Government intended and partly established by Authoritie of Parliament it will not be their priviledge for time to come to passe without such chastisement as is due to their demerits whereat if any be displeased it will be onely the faulty and the offence they take will be like the quarrell of * Cum ab eo quaereretur quid tandem accusaturus esset eum quem pro dignitate ne laudare quidem quisquam satis commode posset aiunt hominem ut erat furiosus respondiss● qu●d non totum telum corpore recepisset Cicer. Orat. 2. pro Sex Roscio Amerino Fimbria against Scevola for that the noble Senator would not take his dagger so deepe into his body as he would have thrust it And in such a case to forbeare a necessary defence of a mans selfe or his Associates in a matter so just and so generall so ingenuously and uprightly managed as that of the Petitioners lest an enemy should be offended at it without a cause were in any indifferent judgement a grand iniquitie a crime composed of a very high degree of cowardice and treachery A Postscript or after-reckoning with the Moderate Intelligencer and Mercurius Britanicus THe pace of a Booke at the Presse proceeding flowly as Guicciardine saith of the Italian Ordinance drawn with oxen hath afforded this advantage to these posting News-men that they have had a second turne to tell their owne tale unto the people before the confutation of their calumnies against the Petitions of the Common Councell and Ministers of London be once presented to publique acceptance which Inconvenience hath yet brought with it this recompence I am by the delay somewhat better acquainted with their spirits and thence find cause to conceive more hope of the one and to observe lesse ingenuitie in the other then I did apprehend when I put in my defensive plea for the Petitioners against their traducements and in this Postscript or after-reckoning I shall entertaine them accordingly 1. For the Intelligencer wee have from him some previous dispositions to repentance for his printed reproaches somewhat towards attrition though farre short of such Christian contrition as is a necessary preparative for the obtainment of a pardon His words in his Thursdayes accompt are these There past us last weeke something that was displeasing both to the Common Councell and likewise to the Clergie to neither of which we intended the least displènsure what was inserted we received and conceived from a good Author and finding the House of Commons to be very much affected with what came from both as that which might be of evill consequence we therefore were the readyer to believe it might amount to so much as we were told but understanding now from others that the Petitions had no such words nor contained any such thing as was expressed we are heartily sory and doe freely acknowledge the same professing that we hold it an high offence to wrong the po●rest particular man ye● if 〈◊〉 enemie nor ever durst wee publish that against the Parliament●● and Kingdomes present enemie much more against their Friends which we did not receive from any good hands as truth Whereby we may perceive the perplexity of his mind which makes him recant and recant in both senses of this ambiguous terme for he recants that is he confesseth his errour thus Vnderstanding now from others that the Petitions had no such words ner contained any such thing as was expressed we are heartily sory and do freely acknowledge the same where is one kind of recantation and withall he recants in another kind that is he sings over againe the same harsh note wherein he was far out of time from the tenour of truth telling the Reader thus much in way of Iustification What was inserted we received from a good Author and studing the House of Commons to be 〈◊〉 affected with what came from both as that which might be of evill consequence w●● therefore were the readier to believe it might amount to so much as we were told which is to make your s●●der of the petitioners the sense of the House of Commons and the hand that brought that sense a good hand and if so you have handled the matter very ill both in respect of conscience and dis●retion for either the House of Comm●●● thought so ill of the Petitioners as you have now the second time asserted or not if they did not as no wise man will believe that so many wise men as should denominate the whole House could so much mis-judge so humble and faire dealing an addresse ●nto them then you wrong them as well as the Petitioners in calling that a good h●●d which brought you such a scandalous mism●erpretation of them