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A63893 Choice experiences of the kind dealings of God before, in, and after conversion laid down in six general heads : together with some brief observations upon the same : whereunto is added a description of true experience / by J. Turner. Turner, J. (Jane) 1653 (1653) Wing T3294; ESTC R27571 50,831 242

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would save or damn me at last I knew not neither did I think it possible for me ever to have known that except it were by some extraordinary way which very few did attain unto But by degrees I began to stay upon some promises through such considerations as these first I thought it could not stand with the goodness of God to damn a poor soul that had such heart-workings and desires after him as I had having much in my thoughts those words of Sampsons Mother Judges 13. 23. I thought that if he did intend to destroy me he would never have given me such desires after him preserved me till now and then that promise Mat. 5. 6. did much support me for I thought that if ever poor creature did hunger and thirst after righteousness I did these promises and considerations with some confused apprehensions that I had concerning the Lord Jesus did much raise me the thoughts I had of him were such as these I did believe that the Justice of God must be satisfied for sin and that nothing could satisfy his justice but a perfect righteousnesse now I thought I was to be very strict and circumspect in all my waies if it were possible to perform such a righteousnesse but what I could not do Christ had done for me and when I had done any thing that I thought was sin I could not apply Christ till I had repented that was till I had mourned fasted and prayed afflicting my self in such a measure as I thought might stand with the not destroying or prejudicing nature for there God would have mercy rather than sacrifice and Jesus Christ would make up that which was wanting so that Christ was my stay though it was through a very carnal and wrong apprehension But though I thought I must be so qualified and fitted for Christ before I could receive him and be made happy by him yet I knew there was no mercy to be found without him nor no life but in him In this conditiō I lived some years more and grew very cheerful confident as I think it was possible to be under such an apprehension but yet my confidence was alwaies more or lesse as I was more or less strict in my waies and sometimes though I had been never so strict yet I was subject to fear left I had not done as much as it was possible for me to do for otherwaies I thought Christ would be nothing at all to me yet my hopes were greater than my fears and I was resolved if I perished I would perish here at the feet of Christ and now I did not only see that possible which before I thought impossible but I had great hopes and much confidence most times This apprehension though it be that which is far below the glory of the free grace of God in the Gospel yet it did present Christ very lovely to me and did produce in me a real love to him as I dare not but so judge considering how I stood affected to and delighted in whatever I knew to be his will Though I must confess I think at the first the great wheel that carryed all about was my own good yet I am very confident that at this time I had a real love to delight in the Lord Jesus Christ and his commandements were not grievous to me but I did approve of them to be the most excellent things because approved of by the Lord and I well remember I was so far taken off from delighting in sin that I think I may say I did hate it with a perfect hatred as that which was in it self the only object of hatred as it was against God and all my delight was to be with those that I thought did excell in vertue and I could not bear wicked persons but their waies and practices were odious to me yet still I say my condition at this time was a condition of extreme bondage and below the Gospel I shall say no more of it but only this that what I have here written I think I may say is not the hundredth part of the labors and travells of my soul whiles I lived in that condition and if I should go about to write it all I know not how nor when to make an end But God was pleased in mercy to free me from that bondage by the manifestation of his love and grace through his Son to whom be all praise and glory for ever more Amen Some brief Observations from this second note of Experience FIrst Concerning the person by whom my experience in these things began which was one as I iudge not rightly called or sent to preach the Gospel he not being related to a true Church though otherwise I hope a godly man according to that measure of light he had received From whence I observe That it is possible for a godly man in times of ignorance and darkness to be a Minister of a false Church Secondly I observe That though it be not the work of a false Ministery neither is it the way of God to convert souls by yet accidentally or providentially somthing may be done that way by them especially in times of persecution where there is not a true Ministry abroad as indeed I am much inclined to own the work of conversion to be begun in me at this time and that for these reasons First because now was the day of Gods power no● only to make me willing but there was some change wrought in the whole soul and every faculty of it which before was dead had now some life and motion in things relating to God and godliness as the understanding was opened so the will was changed and made willing to submit to truth and to imbrace the waies of life though it were through the greatest difficulty yet in much darkness and then the affections were taken and though there were but a little glimps of truth appeared yet there was a love to it and delight in it and a great hatred of the contrary all which I apprehend could not be but from some seeds of the Gospel though through false teaching there was not that blessed fruit of ioy and peace in believing also the Memory was active and busie to retain truth so that here was some change wrought in the whole soul as aforesaid A second reason is because when I lay under conviction of sin by the Law and was ready to sink under my burthen that which did suport and uphold my spirit was the Lord Jesus Christ though my apprehensions of him were not according to the Gospel as to the glory of the free grace therein contained A third reason is from the consideration of that fruit which did appear at that time which was an intire love to Christ and a conversation suitable thereunto according to the light then received For there was not only a doing good but a love to it and delight in it and there was not only a forbearing evil
the same though in our Judgement we cannot so own them which is a plain contradiction in our principles we say they are not Churches and Ministers of Christ by our practice we say they are as hath been minded Secondly As it is a contradiction of our own principles so it hath had such effects which are too visible and remains unto this day I must confess in my most serious thoughts I have wondered what should be the reason that any in the house of God should desire to be elsewhere I am sure there is no reason to be given for it neither from Scripture nor experience therefore I conclude it s either from ignorance so persons in their practice cross their own principles and not know it or else it s from corrupt principles or else they are overcome by some violent temptations As to the 1. of these I trust there are not many in the house of God so ignorant As to the 2. it is the desire of my soul that God would reprove shew them the evill of such principles and recover them out of such snares As to the 3. Let them take heed lest having put their hand to the plow and looking back they become unfit for the Kingdom of God Luke 9. 62. and let them likewise take heed of pleasing men or halting between two opinions but if God be God follow him if Baal follow him 1 Kings 28 21. This may seem harsh language to some but I am satisfyed that what I have written hath not been from a censorious spirit to Judge of the final State of any or to question the grace of God in any where it doth appear in the least measure and therefore let none say that because I cannot own any to be true Churches or Ministers of Christ but such as are in the same order with us that therefore I say there is nothing of God or Truth in them or that none shall be saved but our selves or that we love none but those of our own Judgement which if any do so think or speak of us it is a very great mistake for if I may speak for others as I have already said I do upon a godly account love and delight in some who are not in our Churches and do wait for the accomplishment of those glorious promises when they and we shall have a pure language shall call upon the Lord serve him with one consent and when we shall have one heart and one way and there shall be one Lord and his name one Zeph. 3. 9. Jer. 32. 39. Zach. 14. 9. In the mean time Let none under a pretence of waiting for the accomplishment of such promises as these grow cold and indifferent in the great things of God For none can truly wait for the accomplishment of Promises but such as do wait in a close walking with God according to that measure of light received and so those that have but a little of the knowledge of God let them follow on to know the Lord Hosea 6. 3. and let those that are in the faith earnestly contend for it Jude 3. and such as are in Gospel Churches let them stand fast in one Spirit with one mind striving together for the faith of the Gospel Phil. 1. 27. and let every one that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity 2 Timothy 2. 19. and those that love the Lord hate evil Psalm 97. 10. And as I desire that none may slight grow cold or indifferent in the great things of God under a pretence of waiting for high enjoyments or discoveries which shall be in the later daies so I desire likewise that none may plead against the Truth under a pretence of Love as many do in these daies labouring to confound light with darkness truth with error and to make an agreement where God hath made none Let such know that true spiritual love as it is wrought in the heart by the Spirit of God so it is bounded within the limits of Truth Love and Truth go hand in hand it is so fixed upon God that it Loves all in and for him spiritual Love must have a spiritual object and as the obiect is more or less visible so is that Love it cannot love every thing alike nay it works as well by hatred of evill as approving that which is good Psa 101. Psa 97. 10. Rev. 2. 6. Psa 119. 122 128. It loves that which God loves and hates that which he hates it loves the Word of God the Ordinances of God and the people of God and hates all that is in opposition to these it rejoiceth not in iniquity but rejoiceth in the truth 1 Cor. 13. 6. This is true spiritual love in which we are to receive every truth and by which faith worketh 2 Thes 2. 10. Gal. 5. 6. and I dare affirm whatever persons may pretend of spiritual love that is not of this nature it is a meer delusion and that all that fear the Lord ought to take heed of it The fift Note of Experience concerning Notions and Pretended Spiritualities in which Satan transforms himself into an Angel of light and how far I was deceived by it and how the Lord was pleased to recover me out of it BEing now through much mercy brought out of Babylon into Sion to partake of those dainties which the Lord hath prepared for his people there Satan that grand Enemy of mankind who goeth about like a roaring Lion seeking whom he may devour 1 Pet. 5. 8. envies my happiness and waites his opportunitie to catch me as a fish in the water covering his hook with a bait of mystery and spirituality who though I had escaped him in all his former appearances as a devill yet now transforms himself into an Angel of light if it were possible for ever thereby to beguile and deceive me knowing that those that are so deceived are the fittest Agents to promote his Kingdome and that many times he prevailes this way when he can prevail no other way drawing persons to that by degrees through corrupt principles which they would have trembled at the thoughts of before they had such principles but God was pleased not onely to keep me from such things but also discover to me the way by which persons are brought to such things that so to the praise of his Grace I might avoid those waies and also forewarn others to avoid them likewise But before I was brought to discover Satan under these veiles by hearkning to the voice of the Tempter in the thoughts of which I desire ever to be humbled in the presence of God I was deceived and beguiled by him in some particular things and that after this manner after we had lived some time in London walking with the Church in the practice of the Gospel it pleased God to remove our habitation into the Country where we had not that privilege and after a while my Husband being in the Army it occasioned our
concerning truth and why many that live a long time under much means yet continue very ignorant it may be ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth 2 Ti. 3. 7. and as the seed upon the stony ground withred away because it had no root So truth not being rooted in the heart and iudgement though it spring up in much affection yet it comes to nothing And indeed ignorant persons many times are sooner affected and doe seem to have more affection than others he reason of that I conceive is the same also with that of the seed upon the stony ground it sprang up suddenly because it had not depth of earth so it s natural for ignorant persons to spring forth in affection they having as it were nothing else to do but onely to be affected their strength running all in one vein or in one Chanel they spend all in affection while others that have more understanding have many other things to do all the faculties of their souls being exercised their strength is dispersed into many veins weighing and pondering things in the heart and iudgment that it may have depth to root and settle there as it s said of Mary shee pondred those things in her heart Luke 2. 19. so they are treasuring it up in their hearts having in their treasury things new and old Mat. 12. 35. and 13. 52. and a little affection where there is iudgement is better than a great deal without iudgement yet much affection with a sound iudgment is best of all The second note of Experience How I was brought to see my self in a miserable state by Nature and convinced of sin by the Law and so converted to duty labouring for life by doing though at that time in my own thoughts far from owning such a thing By providence hearing a Minister of the Nation who was then called a Puritan whom though I used often to hear yet I could truly say as the Prophet in Dan. 10. 8. I heard but I understood not and as I was once hearing of him very suddenly I thought I did discern and understand things more clearly and more distinctly than ever I did before that time being much affected with it and did then own God in it having many such thoughts as these that as it was said of Lydia Act. 16. 14. that now the Lord had opened my understanding and now I hoped I should have more knowledge and delight more in hearing and reading whereas before it was wearysome to me because I did not understand any thing but in a confused manner After this I had a great delight to hear this man and though I thought it much on any other occasion to go one mile on foot yet to hear him I could go three and back again the same day frequently and by his Ministery I was brought to see the superstitious varity of my former zeal and laid it aside and I remember that at this time I had such affectionate heart-workings towards God and godliness and such a hatred of all sin according to what I then knew that I did many times in my serious thoughts chuse rather to dy than live meerly upon that account because I would not sin against God knowing my self subject thereunto And though I cannot say that at this time I had faith in God so as to believe his Love to me on Gospel grounds for I was totally ignorant of any such thing many years after yet I had good thoughts of God from that glimmering light which I then had and which did produce in me much love to him as I cannot but so judge But no sooner was I brought to this but Satan was ready to assault me and set upon me with this horrid temptation to question the Being of God and I remēber it usually came upō me when I was alone but especially as I was going by my self to hear the aforesaid Minister insomuch that it did exceedingly trouble me and I then discerned it to be a temptation and did resist and labour against it drawing arguments as I went in the fields from the very works of Creation to confirm my self in this truth that there is a God that it should not be in vain for me or any to serve him and earnestly crying to God against it through Grace I was not overcome by it but had a supply of strength until it was removed and I was no more troubled with it in many years after So I continued a constant hearer of this man and other such like for some years by which I came to see my self in a miserable State by nature and was convinced of sin by the Law but being very ignorant of the Lord Jesus and their doctrine being for the most part such as was suitable to the old covenant instead of going to Christ for life I was brought to a great degree of labour and travell for life and happinesse by doing though at that time in my own thoughts farre from owning such a thing being as exact and strict in all my waies I think I may say as it was possible for a poor creature to be but the more strict I was still looking through the glasse of the law the more my bondage was increased For I could see nothing but an addition of sin in all that I did the law still calling for a perfect righteousness Then I began to be very much troubled and in a great amasement perplexity of spirit fearing I should perish for ever then I had thoughts to discover my condition to some to have advise from them but meeting with many discouragements did not but kept it in my own brest discovering no more but what I could not hide which was onely my outward appearance much differing from what formerly it was which did occasion some to say that I was neer a distraction they not knowing what condition I was in And truly my condition was so sad that I was afraid of a distraction my self for I thought it impossible to continue long in that condition and not be distracted which fear did occasion me to apply my self to some means of comfort whereas before I was not willing to hearken to any thing that way the means I used was chiefly reading praier by which it pleased the Lord I came to some dark apprehensions concerning Jesus Christ being perswaded there was something of that nature which if I could get a right understanding of my condition would be much better but fearing left I should sink under my burthen temptations comming on me like the waves of the Sea I was forced as I went about my occasions often to cry to God like the Disciples in another case Lord save me else I perish Mat. 8. 25. I thought many times I was even sinking under my burthen and I did believe there was no help but only in the Lord and that he was able to do it but whether he would do it or whether he
but a hatred and indignation against it It being thus with me at this time I cannot but much tender persons in the like condition who do manifest by a good conversation a reall work of God upon their hearts though living in a discovery below the privileges of the Gospel yet not so to tender them as not to tender the glory of truth above them being true to my principles in keeping a strict separation from them in relation to their visible and publick worship it being contrary to the rule of the Gospel Three Observations from the three foregoing reasons First concerning the Change wrought in the whole soul from thence I observe That there may be a Change wrought in the whole soul to life and godliness long before that soul comes to enjoy life by believing Secondly concerning my being staid upon Christ when I was like to sink upder my burthen from thence I observe That a soul may cleave to and really stay upon Christ through some apprehension which presents him lovely though it may be that which doth not present him so lovely as indeed he is Thirdly concerning that entire love I had to Christ and his waies from thence I observe That though the love of Christ manifested to a soul be that which ordinarily begets love in the soul to Christ yet its possible there may be a real love to him before there is such a manifestation Now having minded many particulars as to my condition at that time when I did experience these things I cannot altogether omit the kindness of God towards me in relation to persecutions which though it were but small comparatively with some others yet it was more than some met with and it was that indeed which did require some strength from the Lord to undergo it with comfort in which he not being wanting to me I Judge it ought not to be forgotten by me and as I had comfort in it at that time present so I am still well satisfyed that I suffered not as an evill doer because what I did then was upon a conscientious account according to that light received I could mention many particulars but I forbear heartily desiring that it may never be laid to their charge But this book being intended by me as a remembrancer of the former dealings of God towards me I think it not altogether useles as to remember the time I was in that condition the manner how I was brought from it so also the time when J was brought from it and that was after the Bishops were quite taken away in the beginning of the sitting of the late Synod And here I desire to remember with thankfulness to God that I was not insnared by the change of times and laws For at that very time when the Presbyterian party so called began to reign and J might have reignd with them and enioyed smiles from them being convicted of a further discovery of truth J left them and was content to become a scorn and a by-word amongst them Though J must confess J had much respect from some of them all along yet my sufferings from that party were far more than the former J could here mention many particulars but J forbear desiring as for the former it may not be charged upon them only these general hints I hope will be sufficient to bring particulars to my remembrance for these things ought not to be forgotten by me because in the remembrance of them I find my heart much engaged in praises to God and that several waies one way and that not the least is that God hath broken their power For indeed I must needs say that according to my observation and experience I have seen as persecuting a spirit in them as ever I did in the former and they did appear as bitter if not more against such as were called Anabaptists than ever the Bishops did against those that were called Puritans considering their time and power For as their time was short so when their power was highest there was alwaies a party which did a little aw them I shall say no more of these things but that as I desire for ever to blesse the Lord in the remembrance of them so I do likewise desire that God would destroy or at least keep under every persecuting spirit under what name or title soever called till he is pleased to give them repentance The third Note of Experience How I was brought to apprehend and believe the free Grace of God in the Gospell and in believing to receive the assurance of the love of God IN order to this experience I cannot omit to write something concerning the reading of a book by which as a means in the hand of God I received these never to be forgotten mercies After I had livd about five or six years a strict professor being very confident and settled upon the Lees of Legal Righteousness it pleased the Lord there came a man to the Town where I lived whom though he was generally reputed to be an honest man yet he was much opposed as holding grosse errors in his Judgement and hearing many speak very bitterly against him I did much ponder it in my heart not da●ing as Nicodemus spake concerning Christ John 7. 50. to judge before I heard and therefore I resolved to speak with him which accordingly I did and found him speaking such things as I never heard before which I then ignorantly judged to be errors the things he chiefly spake of was about Free Grace the nature of the Gospel and the New Covenant and though I was not able to gain say the truth of what he spake yet for fear of those evill consequences that a carnal heart might draw from them I could not receive it But after some discourse in much opposition yet not bitter against him in the close he desired to lend me a book in which he said concerning the things he spake I might find better satisfaction than he could give being but weak in expression so I took it home with me but being much afraid of error I was at a great dispute in my own spirit whether I should read it or not but fearing lest I should seem to shut my eyes against the light at last I came to this result that I would read it but first set a part a day by fasting and prayer to seek the Lord that what was truth in it I might embrace and that he would keep and preserve me from error which accordingly I did and finding the drist and scope of the book was to exalt God and lay low the Creature I was much affected with it as also with some other particulars but on the other hand these Ministers whose words were then as Oracles to me did so much cry out against it charging all to take heed of it it being full of errors of dangerous consequences that when I came about the middle of it I was so surprised with fear of carnal liberty