Antichrisis or opposition between our Passivenesse and Gods Act vers 5. There God is said to quicken us and that with Christ Now how or whom shall God be said to quicken but by taking into construction that clause us that were dead in trespasses and sinnes That as Christ being dead was quickned Hebr. 13 So we from the death in sinne are quickened together with him 2. As for other Translations The Hebrew Copy and the Syriack Copy put at the word us in verse 4. their full stop or Period Nor doe I fee any other Translations point it as you would point 2. From words let us come to matter If we should lend you this Proposition that God loved us with his great love VVHEN we were dead in trespasses and sinnes what would you gaine For these kind of Whens in the Scripture as here when you ware dead and Rom. 5. when we were enemies and Ezek. 16. When thou wast in thy Blood doe but import an order of Nature or working not a difference of time That is at the same instant when wee were dead enemies in our blood in the same instant did God put us into Christ by faith and made us lovely and actually loved us with his great love in him So is the very scope of the Apostle here to shew wherein did appeare Gods great love namely in quickning us to a spirituall resurrection with Christ verse 5. And in raising us to a speciall Ascension with Christ verse 6. And so Rom. 5.8 9 10. God commends his love towards us that when we were enemies c. we were reconciled to God by the death of his Sonne And so in other whens They doe but shew the matter God makes lovely in Christ not a sinfull condition that he can love out of Christ In common Speech When must of necessitie so be taken to signifie order of things not antecedency of time As one saith I married my wife when she was a Widow This cannot be meant that when shee was a widow shee was married or made a wife And so God converted mee when I lay in a most profane unregenerate condition It cannot be meant that when a man is regenerated he is unregenerated So when it is said God loved us with his great love WHEN we were dead in Trespasses and sinnes quickning us together with Christ This cannot be meant that God loved us with great love being still in our state of sinne and out of Christ For why then is he said to be wroth with the self same Ephesians whiles out of Christ and unregenerated and unquickened verse 1 2. Your 5. Proof Pag. 15. Rom. 9.11 12. The children not yet borne and having done neither good nor evill that the purpose of God might stand according to election Answ The Apostle expressely in your quotation applies this to election And election is called even here as oft else-where a purpose and wee cannot say that in regard of us or upon us that Gods purpose of love is actuall love God distinguisheth himself between his Purpose and Act Ephes 1.3 4. and 2 Tim. 1.9 10. Of which at large afore Upon this place of Jacob you make an Objection pag. 16. What if Jacob after this had turned to be a notorious and profane Person would or could the Lord have continued his love to such a person as this I answer boldly say you yea For Gods love and mercie are mercies of eternitie Psal 103.17 Ps 136. Malach. 3.6 Should the Lord change as often as we change he should be more variable then the winde Answ By these your words and the Obiections of some that heare you as a Commentary upon them you seem to conceive that if the Lord should not love us with as great love in a profane and unconverted condition as after then there were a change in God and in his love which to be your minde is yet more plaine by many former Passages already alleaged and especially of that place out of Ephes 2. And that touching Paul after in pag. 23. That God loved him with as great love when he persecuted the Church as when he preached the Gospel But this inference will no wayes follow That if God doth not actually love us from all eternitie in the same manner that therefore there would be a change in God and his love O that in such deep things you would speak debitè in proper termes as a man that hath skill in Divine reason Let me aske you a question Whether God having chosen us in Christ before the foundation of the World that wee should be holy and without blame before him in love having predestinated us unto the Adoption of Children by Jesus Christ c. can save us without our being in Christ without holinesse c. If not for his purpose is unchangeable whether he doth not love to see us in Christ rather then out to see us holy rather then not c If so then there is a change in Gods acts though not in his purpose O that you would discrecely mixe your sweet drinkes lost they make your Ratients burst Poyson is sooner taken down lap'd in gold or sugared Keckerm Syst Theolog. lib. 3. cap. 1. Evermore say the Learned and Godly Schoolmen wee call not the Papists in put a wide difference between the Decree of God and the execution of that Decree The Decre is eternall but the bestowing or giving of the end by the means is done in time So Keck And he saith well For though Gods Decree be eternall yet the World was made in time in sixe dayes Therefore when God actually looked upon it and approved all as exceeding good Gen. 1. that was done was in time So Christ was sent in due time to die for us and to save us in him either at Third Sixt Nineth or Eleventh houre Rom. 5.6 Matth. therefore God doth actually love us in him in time Yet all this doth not alter Gods purpose but answeres to his purpose Medul Theolog. lib. 1 cap. 6. and is the perfection of his purpose carrying on it self to its designed end To effect worke or doe saith D. Ames taken actively as they are in God the Agent differ not really from God himself For there is no composition or change of Power and Act in Gods most simple and immutable Nature mark not in his nature But saith he to effect worke or doe doth adde a certaine relation of God to a reall effect And there belongs unto God an active power in regard of the creature which gives to the creature a posse recipere a power to receive which produceth an appearance of that act which formerly was not So hee So that Gods essentiall purpose is like himself is himself eternall and unchangeable but his outward actuall working is in time And it is as great contradiction to conceive an outward action of God upon the creature without all time as to conceive hee should make a body that should be in
no place Add what the said Doctor hath touching creation Ibid. cap. 8. that you may not think me singular and selfish Active creation saith he is conceived in manner of a transient action in which is alwayes supposed an object upon which the agent doth act yet is it not formaly transient but only virtuall because it doth not suppose the object but makes it So hee How much more therefore is Redemption a transient act and justification a transient act which doth cleerly suppose that praeexistent object man made already And therefore as actuall creation done in time though decreed eternally doth not inferre a change in God so nor doth actuall Redemption Justification putting us into Christ and loving us as found in him conclude that there is a change in God hereby which before was eternal but onely in the decree and purpose God from all eternitie hath the Idea and platforme of all in his minde yea his essence as understood by himselfe is the Idea of all But to say that God doth actually justifie whiles man is not actually existent is to charge God with contradictions Or to say that God doth actually love justifie c. that which is actually nothing is to frame phantasies to our selves God made man after his own Image God lookes on us no otherwise from all eternity for matter of being but as he lookes upon his owne essence the Idea as we said and platforme of all things Therefore God in his decree cannot be said to justifie us from all eternitie unlesse you dare say God justifies himselfe There is the same reason of distinguishing of a man afore conversion and after If Gods decree be that 1. he calls effectually by the Word And then 2. justifies in Christ And 3. glorifies with grace and blessednesse Then it is impossible to conceive or say That it is done eternally afore that we are justified eternally afore loved as justified eternally afore when the Decree is That is shall not be afore we are actually called So this indeed is to defend Gods unchangeablenesse to maintaine that God doth Act all things in time place manner and degree exactly according to his eternall unchangeable purpose Your Quotation of Rom. 5.6 8. of Ezek. 16. wee answered afore The same Answer serves to that you alleage out of John 3.16 Thus God purposed actually to love some of the World And after he did actually love those of the World that were in Christ by faith So that God actually loved those that were of the world but not whiles of the World And this place of John 3.16 doth shew the order of Gods proceeding to make us actually loved 1. Hee having decreed to love 2. Prepared a Propitiation gave his Son for whom he might love 3. So actually loves all that beleeve in that Christ that he saves them If you understand otherwise of an actuall love in God towards the world before they beleeve then it will follow that God doth actually love all the world of which many never beleeve yea never were elected I wonder why you doe so contend for this expression Ephes 1.3 4 5.6.7 8. Rom. 8.28.29 Rom. 9.11 That God doth love the elect from all eternity For 1. If the holy Ghost in Scripture calls it a Love once he calls it a purpose an election a choosing a predestination a fore-ordaining a counsell a determination many times for that once And we are to follow the frequenter exposition of the holy Ghost as a commentary to that which is more rare 2 You your self will call that actual love which God beares to us when we are actually in Christ by Faith So you doe Sermon 2. p 3. p. 5. And the Scripture saith that before this Gods love is but a purpose a predestination an election c. Now a purpose and an act of love are immediate contraries no middle love between both And therefore what doe you contend for A meer imagination 3. Cui bono to what end doe you strive in this For what more effectuall argument lies in this to tell a poor forlorne sinner that God loves him then to tell him God hath elected him or purposed to save him in Christ for his Election and Purpose are unchangeable And you may as safely say the one as the other yea safer For that expression to tell him that God loves him being yet out of Christ may give an occasion of mistake whereby to neglect Christ Sure enough on their parts that use this phrase God loves sinners out of Christ many grosse expressions bud thence ☜ As that you have p. 27 28. following That we are Predestinated chosen redeemed sanctified called the heart opened and all before Conversion comes I leave you and all ingenuous men to stand and wonder at these words till I come to answer them in their order upon those pages of your Book which you see wee quote in order There you and all candid men may see how unextricably you hamper your self Pag. 21. You say neither may wee nor will Christ himself say that he purchased the Fathers Love for us Answer Here is another of those * For you see and say your self pag. 22. That you see a depth unsearchable and you cannot tell what to say to it So you thickets you rush into by understanding Gods election or purpose to love to be a love And that his eternall love containes more then a purpose For if you would keep to the frequenter expressions of the Scriptures of election purpose c. you would easily understand all Namely that as well the Son and holy Ghost as the Father doe elect and purpose to save sinners That all Three as well as one of the Persons must be pacified by merit of a Saviour God and man That all Three Persons doe purpose to love in this manner and method 1. That they will send the Second Person to take humane nature for Christ sends himself as he himself laid down his life Ioh. 10. to die and prepare a satisfaction for sinners 2. That this Christs sufferings shall be preached to sinners 2 Cor. 5.20 3. That the efficacie of the Spirit entayled on the Ministery of the Gospel 2 Cor. 3. shall make the elect by faith own these sufferings as done for them to discharge them whereby they are united to Christ Ephes 3.17 4. Then God finding them in Christ hee confesseth hee is satisfied and well-pleased with them Matth. 3. verse last Matth. 17.5 Twice spoken from heaven for the eminency of it Which in sense is all one as that Christ merits Gods actuall love to sinners And that is the reason that Christ is so oft in Scripture * Heb 9.26 Rom. 3.25 Rom. 5 11. Ephes 2.14 1 Cor. 5. called our Sacrifice our Propitation our Atonement our Peace our Passeover c. For that your dangerous Distinction That God can begin to love without Christ and after cannot continue it without the helpe of a Christ I wade not
to be advised guided by Christ Mat. 17.5 And Christ is honoured in that he must find the price of our redemption finde an hand for us to receive it So that the salvation and the application by faith is all of the gift of Christ and of the power of Christ Ephes 2.8 By grace are ye saved through faith see Gods favour and Saints faith conioyned and that not of your selves it is the gift of God who works to will and to do Phil. 2.13 The Proposition We are justified before God before the act of our beleeving Argument I. LEt me speake for those that are not able to speake for themselves I meane the little Babes to whom belongs the Kingdom of God I argue thus Infants doe not beleeve a But Infants are justified Therefore some that do not believe are justified Which if it be granted it will follow that some are iustified before they believe That infants are iustified need no proofe * That infants beleeve not must be proved b although the Church of England hath long since put it out of doubt First Faith cometh by hearing Rom. 10.17 How shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard shall we say that infants in the Wombe hear the Word Secondly Faith is a Knowledge as some say a Perswasion as others a Trust as others But Infants are capable neither of Trust Perswasion or Knowledge therefore Infants are not capable of Faith But some have said that infants hear the Word of God beleeve in God and love God in an unknowne way c as sometimes John Baptist sprang in his Mothers Wombe for joy at the salutation of the Blessed Virgin But Saint Augustine did answer long agoe not more wittily then truly That this was done by a singular Miracle Neither doth this conclude other infants to beleeve any more d then we may conclude all Asses to be good Counsellors because we read that Balaams Asse spake more wisely then her Master An Answer to Argument I. * Yea if you would hold that infants are iustified before they believe you had need exceedingly to prove that they are so iustified for we know no Scripture for it Justified infants do beleeve a Such an infant may be filled with the holy Spirit Luk. 1.15 And where is the Spirit there are its fruits one of which is faith Gal. 5. The inbeing of grace no way depends upon the growing of the body we know a reasonable spirit is the subject of grace and without respect to age The Angels were full of grace as soone as made Grace doth but perfect reason The soule of an infant is full of reason Ergo why not capable of grace that doth not hurt but help reason how more capable is the soule of a man asleep of faith then the soule of an elect waking childe Yet 1. God hath appeared to men in dreams why not to a waking childe revealing Christ unto it 2. The habit of faith saves else a believer dying in his sleep cannot be saved All infused habits depend not on organicall knowledge that enters by sense 3. Godly men in their deepest sleep have oft the most rationall and divine notions Ergo a childe may awake smiles are the property of reason they will smile Infants do not believe b because Rom. 10.17 Answer that is spoken de Adultis of ripe in yeares for there is mention of confession and supplication The expression is affirmative not negative By this argument because it is said the spirit is given by hearing 2 Cor. 3. Ergo it could not be given to Iohn Baptist without hearing This confirmes that spoken afore c that Iohn was filled with the holy Spirit from the womb now manifesting an apprehension of Christ by that motion the body was organized unto namely leaping in the mothers wombe For that of Augustine 1. If men are to be urged in this point then the whole streame of all sound Divines run to this effect We are elected before all time Created in the beginning of time Justified in the fulnesse of time Glorified after all time That the first is the decree the other the execution 2. Augustines speech must be interpreted that he meanes by miraculum mirandum or else his speech is false as in many things he mistooke for a miracle is Mutatio naturae rei of the water into wine Moses rod into a Serpent Now Iohn in the womb was not altered in nature 1. d It is not said that the Asses soule was capable of humane reason and speech The voice or fitnesse of speech was created in his mouth But it is said Iohns soule was filled with the holy Ghost This infusion of the holy Spirit in regard of Gods acting is the same with his infusion of the Spirit into all other believers though the subiect not like to all other believers in regard of body But the Lord did not make the asse speake as he makes man to speake He makes man speake by the naturall instruments of speech And speakes reason from a reasonable soule But the asses speech was created above the power of nature And for that speech that Iohns condition doth no more conclude that other infants do believe any more then we may conclude all asses to be good counsellours because we read that Balaams asse spake more wisely then his Master We answer 1. This will conclude that as all asses would so speake if God did worke alike in them by creation so all infants would believe if God did work alike in them by infusion as he did in Iohn Yea 2. We can conclude more a fortiori If God doth put the spirit of faith for so it is called 2 Cor. 4. into Iohn whom he intended should live to be a man to see Christ and heare of him if not hear him how much more will he put the spirit of faith into elect infants that shall never grow up to manhood but die in their childehood 3. We can conclude that some one hath had faith in infancy But you can give us on instance of any one that hath beene iustified in infancy without faith I say no instance of example As for your Arguments we will answer to them in order 4. It seemes more infants then Iohn have had saving grace in their infancy Mar. 10. Else how were they pronounced blessed and that to them did belong the Kingdom of heaven and were actually blessed of Christ Argument II. HE that is in Christ is justified But we must be in Christ before we can believe a b c Therefore we must be justified before we can believe The Major is plaine the Minor is proved that we must be in Christ before we can believe To believe is a fruit of the Spirit Gal. 5. But we must be in Christ before we can beare fruit Therefore we must be in Christ before we can believe Joh. 15.4 As the branch cannot bear fruit of it selfe except it abide in the
Vine d no more can ye except ye abide in me Secondly if Faith be a good fruit it is required that men must be good Trees before they can bring it forth otherwise Grapes should be gathered of Thornes and Figs of Thisiles Matth. 12.33 If you will e the Argument may be this He that hath the Spirit of Christ hath Christ But we have the Spirit before we believe Therefore we have Christ before we believe An answer to Argument II. 1. THe Argument is false in the forme For 1. a The conclusion is universall i. that all iustified persons are iustified before they believe which must not be in an argument in the third figure For though expresly the proposition is but indefinit yet you supposing it to be In re necessariâ you yeild it to be universall For if the conclusion in this figure may be universall then I may inferre many falshoods As thus Every man is rationall every man is a living creature Ergo every living creature is rationall For the the Minor terme must be the subiect of the conclusion and the Maior terme the predicat So by such a kinde of argument as this I would inferre All effectually called are saved All effectually called do sin Ergo all that sinne are saved 2. There is another fault in the forme of the argument which much concludes against you which is this The Minor terme as we said must be the subiect of the conclusion the Maior terme the predicat now believing is the Minor terme and justification is the Maior and then the argument will according to rule be thus He that is in Christ is iustified we must be in Christ before we believe Ergo we must believe before we can be iustified I answer artificially to Syllogismes because you pretend art and use Syllogismes 2. The argument is false in the matter namely in the Minor proposition b If by the word before you understand time that we must be a certaine time in Christ before we believe For that cannot be But in the same moment that we be actually in Christ Christ is actually in us Rom. 8.1 to the end of verse 10. For Christ to be actually in us or we in him is an union union is the uniting of two into one Ephes 2.13.14.15 Ergo we cannot be in him to be one with him but he must be in us one with us Take up all the comparisons of this union they wil import as much As marriage Is not marriage a mutual consent Is the man married to the woman and not the woman to the man They twaine shall be one flesh can this be true of one and not of the other Hath Christ our nature Have not we his Are we not as the Apostle speaks ioyntly one spirit 1 Cor. 6.17 Or of a Vine and branches If the Vine be united to the branches are not the branches to the Vine Or of a body and members If the body be united to the members are not the members to it Let any reasonable man under heaven tell me nakedly particularly and plainly how actually we I speak of true Christians are in Christ or Christ in us either Physically or morally call it what you will but all is under the operation and notion of the Spirit of faith 1. Physically is there any thing of Christ in us This can be no other then the spirit of Faith The habit of the graces of the Spirit one of which is faith Ephes 3.17 For Christ himselfe is in heaven Are we any how peculiarly as true Christians in Christ This can be nothing else but the actings of our faith carying casting of our confidence hope expectation and desires love upon him Heb. 6.18.19 Most plainly Eph. 3.17 18. we have both Christ being in us we in him by faith 2. Morally if the Lord imputes Christs righteousnesse to me a true Christian my sinnes unto him as 2 Cor. 5. ult and so reputes me iustified actually in him he doth all this under the notion of faith Rom. 4.3 If any say But we are eternally iustified in Gods election or purpose We reply iust so as we eternally believe in Gods purpose For he hath purposed eternally both equally He that eternally purposed to iustifie did eternally purpose to iustifie by Faith Though the purpose it selfe be not for any foreseen merit of faith Now if purpose of iustifying be actuall iustifying then purpose is no purpose or if actuall iustifying be a purpose then act is no more act For while purpose is there is no act whiles act is it is no more a purpose As we see in all humane things we purpose till we go a iourney when we go it we no longer purpose but go it So in divine things Ephes 3.5.6.7.8.9.10.11 The proofe of this Minor is c to believe is a fruit of the Spirit c. Here is supposed that either the Spirit must be in us a time before it brings for the fruit of faith for in your argument you intend a difference of time or that the Spirit or grace of faith must have long previous changes and preparations before it can act any thing As sap in a stock of a tree But for the 1. The Spirit in the essence being God cannot be said at any time to be out of any man good or bad It were contrary to its infinitnes to be excluded out of any thing or any nothing It must needs fill all things as it must needs be God If by the Spirit you meane the creating act of the Spirit that whiles it is every where it create in this or that man the habit of saving graces it doth it just then when Christ comes For you say Christ and Spirit in a saving manner comes together So e For the 2. The Spirit needs no previous antecedent change or preparations If an angelicall Spirit is full of understanding and act as soone as it is created then the Spirit eternally God is eternally all act For the third Faith it selfe is the fruit of the Spirit as all the habits of graces are by which the Spirit is said to be in Saints so that as soon as faith is in a Saint there is a fruit And faith being above reason and senss 2 Cor. 5. it acts without being beholding to reason or sense So that all this Argument proves no before of time You further prove the Minor Secondly say you if faith be a good fruit it is required that men must be good trees before they can bring it forth Answ I do intreat you d and all ingenuous men to consider whether this be a safe expression to say either that men bring forth faith when as but now you said it was a fruit of the Spirit or that men can be good before they have faith when as faith is that which makes the difference between good men and bad men regenerate and unregenerate Act. 15.9 And therefore so commonly are good men
seven Arguments which if need had required might have been seventie Now I will answer the Objections An Answer to Argument VII IF we are not justified in his sight before we believe a then we are unjust sinners workers of iniquity Answer So we are As we have shewed out of Ephes 2.2 Where we are said to walke after the course of the world to be guided by the Spirit that ruleth in the children of disobedience and to be children of wrath as well as others till we be in Christ by faith v. 4 5 6 7 8. So 1 Cor. 6.9.10.11 But then saith the obiection If we be workers of iniquity God hates us Psalm 5. 1. Answ We know no middle between Gods love and hate And the text saith plainly that till they be called they are in regard of actuall love a people not beloved Rom. 9.24.25 ☞ Some reply that this is meant of the Gentiles To which 1. We reply that that is all one In the Gentiles we see those that were not beloved afore the call are beloved after 2. That the text names Jewes and Gentiles and brings that of Hos to prove it with which if we go on to end of 3. chap. of Hos it is fully proved Chapters are of late invention Besides that 9. of Rom. we alledge that Ezekiell 16.8 It was a time of love This text is urged against us but you may see it is for us For it should seeme it was not the time of love till God passed by her and spread his skirt over her the righteousnesse and excellency of Christ In order of nature she lay in her blood before justified and loved But in order of time at the same time yea minute of time she was in her blood was justified and loved At the same time the soule is created in man But in order of nature the understanding acts before the will And whereas it is said Esau have I hated not Jacob But Iacob have I loved This the Apostle applies peremptorily to Election and reprobation Now Election is every where in Scripture called a purpose If any where it be called a love we must be forced to ioyn both together unlesse we will set the Scriptures together by the eares and say It is a purpose of love Now a purpose is not an act nor an act a purpose Gods decree is not the execution nor the execution the decreeing 2. Answ Isay 1.13 Your incense is abomination to me the calling of Assemblies I cannot away with it it is iniquity even the solemne meeting your new moones and your appointed feasts my soule hateth c. And all because their hands were full of blood But ver 18. Come now let us reason together though your sins be as scarlet they shall be as white as snow See here is as much said of hating those that should be pardoned ver 25. as of Sodom and Gomorrah ver 10. God cannot hate the essence of the Devill being his creature but onely his manners So of the iustified before iustified as we have shewed Answ b What absurdity can be conceived by one principled with Divinity For though man could fall in the first Adam yet he cannot fall from the second Adam being once in him For the gifts and calling of God Rom. 11. are without repentance We can perfectly sinne being out of Christ and so deserve to be hated But we being in Christ have a perfect righteousnesse in him that saves them to the utmost that is for ever that come to God by him seeing he ever lives to make intercession for them Heb. 7.25 So that as he breaks the power of corrupt nature that it cannot sinne perfectly with a full will Rom. 7. so he perfectly pardons all sinne that there is no condemnation Rom. 8.1 Objection 1. We are justified by Faith therefore not before Faith Answer First it should have concluded not before the act of beleeving a Secondly I denie the consequence and say we may be justified both by it and yet before in a different sense This Proposition We are justified by Faith is very ambiguous He was not a Foole who an hundred years since said that this Proposition was one of those things hard to be understood which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest as they do other Scriptures to their own destruction 2 Pet. 3.16 I would our Age had not proved it true that the misunderstanding of this Proposition hath turned upside down the Doctrine of Justification amongst pudling preachers There is in this Proposition two words ambiguous and doubtfull The first Justified which sometimes in Scriptures signifieth to be reputed reckonned or accounted Just as It is God that iustifieth Sometimes it is taken for to be declared or manifested to be Just as By workes a man is iustified James 2.24 If you take Justified in the first sense we say we are not reputed or reckoned Just by the act of believing If you take Iustified in the second sense I say we are justified that is declared to be Iust by believing Faith manifesting to our consciences that we are Iust before God By Faith we understand that God hath freely iustified us in his Son Another word ambiguous in this Proposition is Faith which is diversly taken sometimes for the act of Faith or believing and sometimes for the obiect of Faith the thing believed as Faith was reckoned unto him for righteousnesse Rom 4. that is the obiect of faith So that it is all one as if he had said God or Christ was reckoned to him for righteousnesse If we understand the act of Faith then I say as before we are not reckoned Iust by the act of our faith if by faith we understand the obiect of our faith then I say we are reckoned or reputed Iust by God in by or through Christ Jesus our Faith An answer to your reply to the 1. Obiection We are iustified by faith therefore not before faith Your Answer is 1. That the conclusion should be not before the act of believing We reply the conclusion should not have more termes in it then the premises 2. That if a man hath the habit of faith he cannot but be actually in Christ For it is part of Christ 2. You answer That you deny the consequence We reply That which is said to be done by an instrument inferres it is not done without the instrument 3. You reply that a man may be iustified by faith and yet be iustified before faith in a different sense distinguishing of the reputation of one iust and the manifestation of one iust And of Fides quâ fides quam of faith and its obiect What is all this to the purpose when your own former replies do intimaredly confesse that you took the Argument to mean iustification it selfe not the manifestation and faith the quality not the obiect For the Apostle doth not mean Rom. 5.1 that Christ is the instrumentall cause but the meritorious cause And faith the
against it And therefore tremble you to say That God loved Paul with as great love when he persecuted the Church as after when he preached the Gospel For purpose or preparation of a ground of love is not so great as actuall Love To purpose to wooe is not equall unto the Love of wooing Likewise tremble to say That Christ did not purchase his Fathers actuall Love For wee are not actually loved till actually found in him If it were so that God were alwayes reconciled to us why doe you condemne your selfe in your own words next following pag. 11. I conceive say you and consider what you say the drooping Conscience that sits in darknesse under the clowdy apprehension of an angry Junge c. Attentive to heare how God may be reconciled So you How is God an angry Judge how is there a may be of his Reconciliation to us terms importing future time if he was never at enmitie with us If it were so that God may be reconciled to us from all eternitie and so before we were in Christ why doe you say in pag. 11. 812. that God is freely and fully reconciled to the Elect and loveth them in Christ your words following of persons polluted and sinfull being in Christ import an actuall being in Christ as sure as an actuall pollution when they come to him So much of this distinction Pag. 12 You say that God is freely and fully reconciled to the elect and loveth them in Jesus Christ without any previous dispositions without any qualifications without any performances of Conditions on their parts unlesse to be polluted and sinfull be a previous condition or qualification Answer The Lord expresseth it as the Cardinall condition of the Gospel that men must as well feel their sinnes as be sinners Matth. 11.28 Come to me ye that are weary c. Which Christ explaines Luke 15.7 Joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth which is a sense of sin at the least then over ninety nine Iust persons that need no repentance who are they but such as think they have no need whom Christ calls not Matth. 9.13 speaking to the Pharisees who justified themselves Luke 16.15 It is true that the qualifications in man to prepare him for Christ as Iohn by telling men they needed to repent calling them generations of Vipers and telling them That the Kingdom of Heaven was at hand Mat. 3. is said to make ready a people prepared for the Lord must be from God If there be the qualifications onely of illumination conviction and humiliation for a man blinde or stubborn defieth Christ they are the common workes or graces of the Spirit of God which may be in a reprobate Esau Iudas c. Heb. 6.4 And therefore we cannot be understood in these to ascribe to man either merit or efficacy towards his owne salvation If they be the qualifications of Conversion-graces as of faith c. they come in a speciall manner from the Spirit of Christ as the divine nature of Christ and so cannot be imagined to be of man though in man and acting upon man and man by them For we cannot say that Faith or beliefe doth beleeve repentance doth repent love doth love but men acted and moved by these graces are said to be Beleevers penitent and lovers of God So that though there be no qualifications on mans part from man yet on mans part from God And though there be no performances on mans part by meer man yet there are performances on mans part in man from Christs Spirit when Christ will come and close with the soul actually then doth he act desires and faith into it to make way for himself Rev. 3. Christ knocks before he let in Christ opens Lydia's heart then comes in And Ephes 2.8 By grace are ye saved through faith and that not of your selves it is the gift of God where it is evident that besides the riches of Gods free favour explained in vers 9. there must be Gods gift of Faith to bring us unto and into Christ So Iohn 6.37 Him that commeth will I in no wise cast out There must at least be a restlesse desire that the soul cannot sit still without Christ though that be an effect of the Fathers gift in the same verse All that the father giveth me shall come to me and then Christ will not cast him out or leave him out but receive him in The holy Ghost in that 11. Matth. 28. Come that is beleeve ye that are weary and heavy laden that is weary of finne and desire to come out of it compared with Matth. 5. where there is such frequency and varietie of expressions of desires under the notions of poverty mourning and hunger and compared with Iohn 3. where there is oft mention of faith as necessary to bring into Christ and unto salvation I say the Holy Ghost by these places sets forth unto us that there is a double condition of the Gospel Viz. Qua Quae. 1. The qualification in which a man comes to Christ that is a sensible need of Christ 2. The qualification which brings a man to Christ that is Faith required unto salvation but both of and from the Spirit yea from the Spirit as Christs Spirit as sent by the Mediatour when effectuall So that still all is of God But that which Christ doth to men before they come unto him and into him cannot be denied And this method of the Lord is much for our comfort that the King comes not sine magno strepitu multo pulvere without some hurry somewhat to doe that we may know the commings in of the Lord and not derive all assurance from phanatick Enthysiasmes phantastick dreams that are neither from the word and work of Christ nor warranted there by him You think to comfort a sinner by this that Christ is his without any qualifications performances or conditions on mans part But if there be no conditions qualifications c. performed by Christ in mans behalfe as to put into him desires faith love c. How shall he know but that he is still a miserable sinner uniustified How shall they say to their comfort as 2 Tim. 1.12 I know whom I have beleeved unlesse they doe beleeve And that Rom. 8.28 Wee know all work together for good to them that love God unlesse they feel their Love to God And that 1 Epist Iohn 3.14 By this we know we are translated from death to life because we love the Brethren unlesse they doe love the Brethren But of these markes and signes in another place if God permit This Position being your main ground together with the foresaid distinction I have been the longer in confuting the one and cleering the other I shall be briefer in taking down your props and superstructures and that plainly and lovingly You offer to bring many Proofes for the aforesaid unqualified Proposition Proof I. Pag. 12. Of Gods preaching salvation to Adam and Eve in whom
effectuall calling that is that may be without conversion For that speech which in effect we had afore pag. 23. though we have answered it effectually we hope afore yet lest any should cast an eye upon it here as unanswered and so conceive it unanswerable though you doe but speak not prove wee answer in a word Before Calling and Conversion God doth onely purpose predestinate elect sinners to be loved in time Ephes 1. first 11. verses a place of your own quotation not actually love Rom. 9.23 I will call them my people that were not my people and her beloved that was not beloved And in Gods predestination God doth as well purpose mans fall and foresees him a childe of wrath Ephes 2.2 as his salvation And therefore when God doth actually give Christ to us and us to Christ there is his great and greatest love For in him we have all 1 Cor. 3.22.23 Yet you will hold the conclusion p. 30. That Gods love is as great before faith as after yet you know that God saith Without faith it is unpossible to please him Heb. 11.6 Next you come to answer Objections and we to reply to them Jn the Objection against the Page 32. which you have not answered to refute yet we have spoken to afore that distinction of hating the sinne not the creature which you you reject is a trueth God cannot hate the entities or beings he made Gen. 1.31 Physically considered no not the devill himselfe for being considered so abstractively from sinne God saw all exceeding good But morally considered as sinfully mannered so he hates them He hates the workers of iniquitie because of that iniquity Psal 36.2 He flattereth himselfe till his iniquity be found to be hatefull which done away in Christ he loves them dearely Ephes 2.1 2. Likewise that distinction Page 33. rejected by you Of Gods love of benevolence to the sinner before conversion and his love of Complacience to him after conversion It hath more light in it than all your assertions in this dispute which are a very darknesse provided that it be meetly understood Namely that God hath a benevolent purpose of saving a sinner before conversion or faith in Christ And after these he hath an actuall love of Complacency to him And before that not Mat. 3.17 17.5 So August In quo non cum quo Your own proof shall assert it This is my beloved son IN whom not VVITH whom I am well pleased Heare yee him So that men must heare and have and be in Christ and then God is well pleased with them Not afore This you grant unawares page 38. in your owne Answer to the Objection and so doe yeeld the Question namely in your large parallel or as least antithesis in that page 38. between Justice and Mercy Law and Gospell The summe whereof is to use your owne words That the one declareth wrath without forgivenesse the other mercy grace and peace in Jesus Christ * VVhere also you put a difference very wel of being under the Law and under grace The onely piece of Divinity that we have had from you all this while The Lord keep us all to that In your Answer likewise to the second Objection Page 40. which you propound as against you out of Math. 6.15 and 18.35 If you forgive not men c. your heavenly Father will not forgive you In summe you yeeld the question and overthrow your eternall Justifi-fication c. For you yeeld that there is a time when a man doth not apprehend or lay hold on for the words are the same in sense Gods forgivenesse And that till Gods pardon come to us we cannot pardon men And sure enough we cannot doe that till conversion that makes the Wolfe to dwell with the Lamb as the Prophet speaks Likewise in your last answer Page 46. to the third Objection Page 45. viz. If God love us before conversion as well as after then to what purpose serveth faith I say in your answer to this objection you overthrow your own position of justification before faith For these are your very words Faith is to good purpose that believing you who were under darknesse and in the shadow of death and saw no light yet I say yee might rejoyce with joy unspeakable and full of glory receiving the end of your faith 1 Pet. 1.8 9. * You durst not goe on with the whole 9. ver of that 1 Pet. but break off in the middle excluding that clause Even the salvation of your soules Because that you thought did too apparently attribute salvation to faith Read the place wisely Rom. 15.13 The God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing So you Now where is life where is peace before faith comes according to your owne answer and your proofes of Scripture The other three last Objections Page 51. c. against your Doctrine of Justification and Reconciliation before faith As 1. That then what need we take care what we doe if we believe the Lord will not love us the better if we believe not he will not love us the worse 2. That then a man may dye without faith and yet be saved 3. Why then doth God suffer us to live in prophanenesse twenty fifty sixty yeares I say these Obiections following meerely on your unsound Doctrine are stronger to doe hurt than all your declamations against desperatenesse and loosenesse and disparaging the power of being under grace beneath some heathens morality are likely to prevent It is in vain for that man to forbid yong people the conclusion of committing fornication that allows them the premises of all wanton carriage Corrupt men are in their kind rationall and they will conclude according to the principles you teach them ☜ A maid led away with this Doctrine said boldly to me that she knew not how she could offend Jesus Christ by any thing she did But I leave men to read the Book of our brethren of New-England touching the tragicall effects of these Doctrines 2. Part. Or Sermon Reconciliation of man to God Page 1. There is say you in Scripture a twofold Reconciliation 1. Originall 2. Actuall Parallel to the distinction of originall and actuall sinne Originall Reconciliation is of our natures Actuall is of our persons Answ 1. There are no such termes of distinction in all the Scripture Those places you bring for it Rom. 5.10 Ephes 2.16 Colos 1.21 2 Cor. 5.18 19. let all men read and iudge whether there be the least hint of any such thing For is this any argument that because the Apostle saith to the Romans Ephesians and Colossians that they were already reconciled and tells the Corinthians that he was now but a perswading them to be reconciled that therefore the Corinthians had one reconciliation and were to have another For nakedly this is the sense of your inference For these are your very words you having quoted the former places Now say you compare we these