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A28893 An answer to Doctor Good (so called) his Dialogue against those call'd Quakers wherein he hath forged the Quaker and confuted himself, which dialogue of Tho. Good's is in his book intituled Firmianus and Dubitantius, or certain dialogues concerning atheism, infidelity, popery, and other heresies and schisms, which trouble the peace of the Church &c. / by Edward Bourn. Bourne, Edward, d. 1708. 1675 (1675) Wing B3845; ESTC R27869 17,048 26

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justified by Faith in Christ Jesus which the Work of Faith which works by Love is not denyed by the Apostle nor us if thou denyest that thy Faith is dead Further thou say'st that we say That a State of Perfection and Freedom from Sin is attainable in this Life Answ Do we err in holding that a State of Perfection and Freedom from Sin is attainable in this Life Did not God say to Abraham I am Almighty God walk before me and be thou perfect Gen. 17. 1. And did not Christ say in his Sermon in the Mount Be you therefore Perfect as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect And art thou of that Faith and Belief that God and Christ doth command us to do that which we cannot by his Help and Assistance do 'T is true we cannot keep the Commands of Christ of our selves but by his Assistance we are able to do the same else why did the Apostle say I can do all Things through Christ that strengthneth me And did not the Saints know a Freedom from Sin in this Life Friend I tell thee if thou say'st a Freedom from Sin is not attainable in this Life thou must deny the Scriptures of Truth and give the Apostle the Lye for doth not the Apostle say to the Romans But now being made free from Sin and become Servants to God ye have your Fruit unto Holiness and the End Everlasting Life Rom. 6. 22. And doth not the Apostle say concerning himself For the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the Law of Sin and Death Therefore stop thy Mouth for Shame from speaking of those Things which thou ought'st not and thy Pen from so writing concerning us certainly God will judge thee for thy Lyes and Slanders against us Thou say'st That our Positions are contrary to the sacred Scriptures but by this thy Evil Work it appeareth that thou art contrary to the Scriptures and not we who hast manifested thy Ignorance of what the Scriptures say and hast appeared contrary to what thy self hast learned in thy young Dayes and since for ought that I know to the contrary hast caused others to learn viz. That when thou camest to Age thou wouldst according to what was promised and vowed in thy stead by thy God-fathers and God-mothers in thy Baptism so called forsake the Devil and all his Works And if thou hast not learned thus not caused any thus to learn I am sure that I and many more were caused thus to learn in our youthful Dayes I believe however thou ownest thy self a Member of that Church that teacheth thus to say though not to do and so thou may'st be a Sayer of the Word but not a Doer of it but now thou art neither Sayer nor Doer and so in that Estate can'st not be justified of God for as thou hast doubtless read in the Scriptures It is not the Sayers of the Word that are justified but the Doers of it Now he that forsakes the Devil and all his Works he must cease from all Sin and abstain from every Appearance of Evil for all Sin is of the Devil Again we say say'st thou That there is a Light in every Man sufficient to guide him to Salvation Answ Is it an Errorth us to hold seeing John saith speaking of Christ That is the true Light which lighteth every Man that cometh into the World And hath not God given his Son Christ Jesus for a Light to the Gentiles that he might be his Salvation unto the Ends of the Earth And doth not the Apostle say For God who commanded the Light to shine out of Darkness hath shined in our Hearts to give the Light of the Knowledge of the Glory of God in the Face of Jesus Christ and see John 14. 26. 16. 7 8 9 10 11 12 13. Consider of these Scriptures and then tell us whether it be any Error to hold that there is a Light in every Man sufficient to guide him unto Salvation or to hold the contrary and so whether it is not thou that errst from Scripture and the true and right Way of the Lord and not we Again say'st thou We hold that the Scripture is not the Word of God or a standing Rule of Faith and Manners Answ We own the Scriptures to be what they speak of themselves according to Luke's Preface where he writes of the Gospel c. But the Word is God if John wrote the Truth which we believe he did as thou may'st see John 1. 1. And I hope thou wilt not presume to say to the contrary but we own the Scriptures that which Holy Men spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost to be the Words of God and that which was the Saints Rule we own to be our Rule as the Scriptures testifie thereof see John 16. 13. c. and Tit. 2. 11 12. But thou manifests thy self to be contrary to the Rule both of Scripture and Spirit that does by thy Neighbours and Country-men as thou would'st not be done by Again thou say'st That we hold that there is no Resurrection of the Dead Answ We do own the Resurrection of the Dead according to the Scriptures as thou may'st see 1 Cor. 15. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 c. And further see Ver. 29. 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38. c. So I say we own the Resurrection of the Dead according to the Scriptures and if thou hold'st it otherwise it is thou that errest therein and not we Again thou say'st We hold there is no need of Ordinances as Baptism and the Lord's Supper Answ We own that Baptism that 's according to the Scriptures but not that which is contrary to them which is according to the Traditions and Inventions of Men and the Supper of the Lord we own according to the Scriptures though not such a Supper which some take before Dinner and call it the Lord's Supper So be humbled before the Lord and repent of the Wrong thou hast done us herein Again we hold say'st thou That 't is Vnlawful to take an Oath before a Magistrate upon any Account whatsoever Answ Is it an Error in us to keep the Commandment of Christ herein who saith Swear not at all and the Commandment of the Apostle who saith But above all Things my Brethren swear not see Mat. 5. 33 34 35 36 37. Jam. 5. 12. Friend was it not commanded by Christ and his Apostle that we should not swear at all no not by any Oath And what must we err for doing according to Christ's Commands herein Oh sad that one who taketh upon him to be a Minister of Christ should hold to the contrary and teach others so Friend repent of those Things and do so no more that these Words of Christ may not come to pass concerning thee viz. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least Commandments and shall teach Men so to do he shall
AN ANSWER TO Doctor Good So called His DIALOGVE against those call'd QUAKERS Wherein he hath Forged the QUAKER AND Confuted HIMSELF Which Dialogue of Tho. Good 's is in his Book Intituled Firmianus and Dubitantius or certain Dialogues concerning Atheism Infidelity Popery and other Heresies and Schisms which trouble the Peace of the Church c. By Edward Bourn The Bows of the Mighty Men are broken and they that stumbled are girt with Strength 1 Sam. 2. 4. Printed in the Year 1675. AN ANSWER TO Doctor Good So called c. Tho. Good FRiend Thou hast dialogued against the Quakers to render them odious to the VVorld but our Innocency who are called Quakers will clear us of the Reproach thou castest upon us who wouldst insinuate that to become a Quaker is the ready VVay to become a Papist For first sayst thou in the Beginning of thy Dialogue against the Quakers with Firmianus say'st thou You have informed me in our last Discourse that being sometime a Quaker you had a ready Way open to become a Papist Answ What Ground or Reason gives Firmianus to say so We find no Reason Firmianus gives for so saying a poor and silly Business may we say it is to say To be a Quaker is a ready Way to become a Papist and to shew no better Reason for thy so saying then thou hast done in thy Dialogue surely the Papists and thee are very wide in your Opinions herein surely we believe if it should come to the Tryal between thee and us it will be found that thou art more one with the Papists in thy Practice then the Quakers and therefore it will appear that the Way thou art in is a more ready Way to become a Papist then to be in the Way those called Quakers are in Further in thy Dubitantius where thou answerest thy Firmianus thou hast many scornful and disdainful Expressions not becoming a grave Man or a Man of Gravity which some have taken thee to be and so shewest thy self to be sitting in the Seat of the Scorner But blessed is the Man that walketh not in the Counsel of the Vngodly nor standeth in the Way of Sinners nor sitteth in the Seat of the Scornful c. See Psal 1. 1. c. And if thou wouldst be blessed thou must come forth out of the Seat of the Scorner and fear the Lord God and not be as such who open their Mouthes in Blasphemy against Heaven and them that dwell therein I judge I need not mention thy scornful Expressions nor say more in Answer to them in this Place because I know that People who fear God and are acquainted with our Principles and know our Conversations will judge that thou hast Dialogued thus against us without a just Cause for which I say the Lord rebuke thee Further sayes Firmianus How could you be deceived by such painted Sepulchres What could you see more in them then what was conspicuous in the Scribes and Pharisees of old Take it for and Infallible Rule that whosoever hold or practise any Thing which is contrary to the Law of Nature good Manners express Scriptures the Vsages of all sober and civil People in the World are so far from being True Christians that they are not worthy the Name of Men. Answ Here is a high Charge against us which if Firmianus or Tho. Good could prove according to what he hath charged upon us then should we be much to blame But what if his Charge in every Particular be false herein surely then it will follow that Tho. Good doth much deserve to be blamed for using his Pen thus against the Innocent and indeed I must tell Tho. Good that he hath falsly accused us herein for comparing us with such whom Christ compared unto painted Sepulchres he cannot make good his Charge against us therein but ought to take it home to himself he being more like these and more one with them then we whom Christ Jesus the Light of the World cryed Wo against for whereas he chargeth us for holding and practising Things contrary to the Law of Nature good Manners express Scripture the Usages of all sober and civil People in the World I say these are false Accusations and he himself by the Scriptures may be prov'd guilty of all those Accusations he falsly chargeth upon us and therefore let T. G. in Time to come have a Care and be wiser then to go about such a bad Work as this is wherein he hath grosly slandered and falsly accused the Innocent and be humbled before the Lord and repent of the Evil he hath committed herein and for the Satisfaction of such as are sober-minded let them read Mat. 23. and see who it is that is contrary to Christ Jesus and Breakers of the Law of God our Accuser or us and who is contrary to the Scriptures and read John 5. 41 42 43 44. c. And let the Witness of God in People unto which we do commend our selves judge between our Accuser and us for that will judge righteously and not according to that which is right in Appearance but is indeed contrary to what it doth appear to be And whereas thou speakest of perusing Priest Danson's Book Danson's Book is answered and all his Lyes thrown back upon his Head as thou may'st see in the Answer and thy Dialogue is rather a Forgery which thou and it are stuft with Lyes which come from the Father of them and not from God Thou say'st That they affirm that there are not three Persons in the Trinity Answ We desire thee to shew us Chapter and Verse for these Words and let us see whether thou walkest according to Scripture in these Words and in these Terms and see whether thou hast not presumed above what was written There are three that bear Record in Heaven the Father and the Word and the Holy Ghost these three are one and this we own in Scripture-Language according to John ' s Doctrine c. Thou say'st that we say That Christ did not make Satisfaction for the Sins of Men. Answ This is another lying Forgery for by one Offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified and we are not redeemed with corruptible Things but with the Blood of Jesus Christ as of a Lamb without Spot and we have an Advocate with the Father Jesus Christ the Righteous and he is the Reconciliation for our Sins and not for our Sins only but for the Sins of the whole World And thou say'st that we say That Justification is not by Imputed Righteousness and good Works are the Cause of our Justification Answ Here are more Lyes again and thou abusest Peoples Minds and the Press with them for Christ Jesus is our Righteousness and Sanctification and Redemption God hath made him so and we are justified freely by his Grace through the Redemption that is in Christ Jesus and therefore By the Works of the Law there is no Flesh justified Rom. 3. 23. We are