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A85414 A short ansvver to A. S. alias Adam Stewart's second part of his overgrown duply to the two brethren. Together with certaine difficult questions easily answered; all which A. Stewart is desired to consider of, without replying, unlesse it be to purpose. A. Steuart [sic] in his second part of his duply to the two brethren. page 166. The civill magistrate cannot bee orthodox, and tollerate a new sect, (hee meanes independencie, and may as well say Presbytery) unles hee tollerate us to beleeve that hee is either corrupted by moneys, or some other waye, so to doe. Goodwin, John, 1594?-1665. 1644 (1644) Wing G1201; Thomason E27_6; ESTC R8324 30,557 41

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controvesie it may bee said in behalfe of Independents that unlesse differing and erroneous opinions bee tolerated the most orthodox and rectified are equally Subject to bee persecuted On the other side Presbyterians say that the permitting differing opinions in a State is to open a flood-gate to all manner of Heresies and Schysmes What if wee did suppose these to bee the two Great Rocks of offence which in some sense were no otherwise than Scylla and Charibdis one of which you could not avoide without adhering unto the other Does it not remaine then that wee should consider which of them is accompained with the greatest inconveniences The latter presupposes a possibilitie of entrance unto all Heresies the former concludes a certainty of with-holding a great measure of Truth and even a possibility of keeping out the whole Truth Now this truth is like God himself even verie God himselfe invallewable we may not hazard the least attom the smalest proportion thereof for al other possibilities or impossibilities whatsoever What Shall we put our selves into such a condition that if we be in an errour it shall be impossible for us to get out of it againe unlesse the whole Civil State the men of war the world doe see it as clearely as our selves That if as yet wee have but some degrees of truth and knowledge it shall be impossible for us to attain to greater That though we were in possession of the true Religion wee should bee liable to have it taken from us by everie sharper Civil sword than our owne This is your Doctrin page 13. where you say the Civil Mgistrate though Christian has power to admit Christian Religion or when admitted to exile it afterwards but God keepe such Presbyterian Principles from farther taking root in England But if King and Parliament may not force a new religion or Sect suppose Presbyterian upon the Kingdome much lesse can the Synod which neither has nor yet pretends as is alleadged to use the materiall sword And if for matters of religion all power originally is in Christ as you sometimes acknowledge page 179. How can King Parliament or Synod wrest it from him Nay what thinke you Is it not secondarily in the people as well as Civil power which you affirme in the same page And so doubtlesse is spiritual power unlesse you will make God to have provided mankind better of a safegard or libertie to defend their bodies than their soules If then the spirituall power be so inherently in the people next under Christ as that they cannot so well renounce and part from it in many respects by what they may of Civil how can it be thought by any one that the King Parliament or Synod though never so much importun'd by a thousand such AS ses should goe about to settle a N●w Presbyterian Scotch Government with an intention to force a conformity of the whole Kingdome three quarters whereof cannot as yet be thought to submit unto it willingly or for conscience sake Page 180. and elsewhere you advise the Independents to quit their fat Benefices but Presbyterian know how to quit the leane Benefices without your counsel And where doe you find the Independents in such fat Benefices What if you cannot find one of them in a fat Benefice Will you not say good cause why because the Presbyterians would quickly heave them out and get themselves ●n If they find any fatter than an other and bee so liquorish If they regard neither flock nor the Great shepheard of the flock Christ Jesus but with Esa●h or Judas prefer 30. pence or a fat Benefice before them both let them at least carry it more cau●elo●sly and not ●●● skipping so from one fat Benefice or Lecture unto a fatter that all the world cry shame of them I need not name them they are knowne to everie bodie but themselves But prithee A. S tell mee do'st thou not intend this as a pious plot and Master-peece of thine to accuse the Independents of fat Benefices that they may bee provok'd to vindicate themselves by discovering who they were amongst the Presbyterian Rabbies that solicited so actively and dextrously obtaining such an Ordnance for Tithes as all the subtle invention● of Antichristian Bishops could never get the like Who they were that had more than a finger in helping sundrie Ministers out of their Livings partly for not paying the twentyeth part and other taxes and so soone as Presbyterians had filld all Benefices and Lectures to move that Ministers might then bee totally freed from all manner of ●essment● and is it not fitting it should bee so think you That they should set and keepe the Kingdome on ● fire in ● desparate bloody Civil warre and yet bee totally exempted from contributing towards quenching towards obtaining of a blessed peace I know these Heathenish Jewish Popish notions of Tythes Offerings and 〈…〉 ons were long since abominated and abolished amongst our Scottish Brethren And A. S. does well in not flattering the English Presbyterians therein lest Independents should be farther scandaliz'd at him who it is well knowne are not guilty of such Si●oni● they 〈…〉 bargaine of the Ministerie of the Gospel as if it were an unholy thing or themselves like so many Coblers or Shoe-makers to prostitute their labours to them that proffer most they compel noe man to buy of them whether they will or no much lesse at what price they themselves will what God requires to be given for nothing Esa. 55. 1. 2 They force no man to pay for that he never had as Presbyterians doe such as cannot with a good conscience communicate with them in their ordinances as if a Tayl●r or Hatter should wrench your money from you though you lik'd not would not have his wares his service who will may see the Bloody Tenet and Iohn Baptist concerning tythes more largely Pag. 181. You say the power of the Ministerie or Ecclesiastical power is able and sufficient to beat down all fin spiritually But pray tell me can fin be sin politically and not be fin spiritually Now if Ecclesiasticall power can beat down sin spiritually as you acknowledge Will it not follow that fin so beaten down spiritually ceases to bee sin at all either spiritually or politically and consequently no neede of Civil power to punish it But to be briefe as the Title promised for me Our Saviour bids us do as we would be done to that is Love our Neighbours as our selves on which commandment hangs the Law and Prophets Math. 7. 12. and 22. 39. 40. and Paul tels us that Love is the fulfilling of the whole Law Rom. 13 10. Nay our Saviour would not have us dare to aske forgivenesse of our heavenly Father otherwise than as we forgive our Brethren Math. 6. 12. 14. 15. Now amongst all sorts of transgressours there is no one offendeth so highly so undoubtedly against this law of loving his neighbour as himselfe or doing as hee would bee done to as he that
persecutes that but disturbs his Neighbours welfare because he differs from him in opinion for cause of conscience though erroneous which I prove thus Every man hath so much of an Athist in him by how much he esteemes not the enjoyment of his conscience above all enjoyments under heaven And though we have known many turne some with more facility others perhaps not without some difficulty from Popish opinions unto Episcopal and then from Episcopal to Presbyterial according as either of them became more commodious gainsome or fashionable yet if Athisme not having totally taken possession of their hearts they began at any time to demur or scruple according to the remnant of conscience which might be remaining in them it was never knowne that such were contented to have even these reliques of conscience persecuted or disquieted howsoever absurd and Heretical they might seeme to other men and therefore such as raise any manner of persecution against their Brethren for conscience sake which they could not be contented to have done unto themselves unlesse they were very Athists must necessarily be the greatest offenders against this Law of loving our Neighbours as our selves of any in the world And although I am enforced at present to apprehend you in this gall of bitternesse yet my prayers and hopes shall be that with the Apostle 1 Cor. 6. 10. 11. it may be only said hereafter that such were you once but you are now enlightned you are washed you are sanctify'de which God graunt in his good time and pleasure TWENTY SIX Difficult QVESTIONS Easily ANswered concerning a toleration of differing opinions Quest 1. IS it not the greatest presumption for a man to bee overswayde with his owne opinion when others for the most part submit themselves to be governed by most voyces Ans No but far more presumptuous are they who not content to injoy quietly their own opinions proceed in compelling others to joyn with them therein which yet may possibly bee as erroneous as other mens Q. 2. Is it not the greatest hazard for men to build their faith upon their own private interpetations contrary to the Decrees of Synods and established lawes of Kingdomes An. No because broad is the gate which leadeth to destruction and narrow is the path which leadeth to salvation though many bee called few are chosen and every man must be saved by his own faith not by the faith of Parliaments or Synods Q. 3. Is it not great indiscretion to bee led away by a mans private reason and understanding contrary to the judgement and sense of many and those perhaps the wise and learned An. No because a man is to bee guided by his owne reason in all things and at all times and it would be a double errour a Sin against the Holy Ghost not only to erre but also to erre against his own reason and understanding Q. 4. May it not seeme singularity for some one or a few inferiour people to be totally governed by their own judgements and opinions when the whole Nation is uniforme An. No because there is no mean betwixt beeing governed by a mans own reason or that which is his implicitly his ignorance Q. 5. Is it not an ungodly thing to suffer men to be of any religion An. No for both our Saviour his Apostles and the Primitive Christians did the same neither is it in the power of flesh and blood to hinder it Q. 6. Is it not the most unseemly sight to see the people of one Citty run scambling from their Parishes to 20. Conventicles where so many several doctrins are taught An. No but far more monstrous and abominable in the eyes of God for people of 20. severall opinions for feare or favour to assemble and joyn together hypocritically in one way of worship or Church discipline Q. 7. But may wee not yeeld conformity of the outward man as a matter of great decencie and order in such cases which wee doe but doubt of not certainly know to be forbidden An. No Because it makes us hypocrites twofold more the children of the Divel than we were before and worse than they who yet unjustly did overpresse us ro conformity Q. 8. Ought we not then at least to keepe our different opinions and religion unto our selves in obedience to the Civil Magistrate that co●maunds it An. No because it is better to obey God than man and Christ sayes we must not feare them who can kill the body only bidding his disciples speake that in the light which he had told them in darknesse and on the house tops what he had told them in the eare affirming that he would deny whosoever should bee ashamed or deny him Act. 4. 19. Mat. 10. 27. 28. Marke 8. 38. 2. Tim. 2. 12. Q. 9. If Jesuited Papists and other subtle Hereticks be suffered will they not likely seduce many unto their erroneous by-pathes An. Though a toleration of erroneous opinions may gaine some to Sathan yet Truth being therewith permitted to be published and improved will in all probability not only gain so many more to God but any one thus won to God unto his Truth is worth thousands of those that fall from it or rather from the seeming profession which they made thereof 1 Ioh. 2. 19. Q. 10. But may not the multiplying of Heresies stifle or expel the Truth like as the abounding of tares and weeds often choake the Wheat and for this cause not be permitted An. Though it seeme so to many at the first yet our Saviour in the Parable of the Tares Math. 13. teaches us a quite contrary doctrin and forbids Heresies the Tares to bee pull'd up before the day of judgment the the Harvest verse 30. 39. least the Wheat the Children of the Kingdome True Professours verse 30. 39. bee therewith rooted up Q. 11. Is it not wonderful extravagant that men women should have a latitude to yeeld obedience to no manner of disciplin or doctrin than what they themselves list An. No unlesse you will have them obliged to yeeld unto whatsoever disciplin and Doctrin others list though they neither understand nor know it Q. 12. But may it not likely prove a subvertion of the Civil State whilst such scrupulous people may upon all occasion pretend out of conscience to deny obedience to the Civil Powers An. No For such as are truly conscionable in Gods though but supposed work and seruice are also more exact and conscientious in rendring all due obedience unto man unto the lawes and Magistrate not only for feare but more for coscience sake Q. 13. May not diversity of opinions cause dissentions or breach of love in a Country or Cyttie An. No but rather the contrary whilst the Civil Magistrate countenanceth all alike and each man finds his neighbour not only permitting but in some manner assisting him out of love in such a way to heaven as he apprehends to be the only true way Q. 14. Is it not equally impossible for a Church-Society as