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A73011 Looke beyond Luther: or An ansvvere to that question, so often and so insultingly proposed by our aduersaries, asking vs; where this our religion was before Luthers time? VVhereto are added sound props to beare vp honest-hearted Protestants, that they fall not from their sauing-faith. By Richard Bernard, of Batcombe in Sommersetshire. Bernard, Richard, 1568-1641. 1623 (1623) STC 1956.3; ESTC S123041 43,757 64

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lawfull and free generall Councell which the Conuenticle of Trent was not till then we are not to be condemned of obstinacy and so as yet no Heretikes Thirdly we neither haue neglected nor yet doe neglect the true Catholike Churches authority into which wee are receiued by Baptisme For we very willingly desire to heare her sentence but where can that bee except in a generall Councels determination therein to heare the Catholike Church speaking to vs from the Scriptures we greatly long for we readily submit vnto Let her thus speak that we may know her Iudgement and we will hearken thereunto As for the Church of Romes authoritie we doe not acknowledge it ouer vs because it is not nor euer was in her best estate the Catholike Church but onely a particular Church which now also is a party questioned And therfore her authoritie for her selfe against vs is no more of vs to be regarded then by them our Churches authority for her selfe against them Seeing then that by their definition wee are not conuinced of heresie wee are not out of the Church as Heretikes II. Not as Schismatikes For albeit we haue no departed from this Romish Church yet are we no Schismatikes First for that we keepe communion with the Catholike Church into which we by Baptisme were admitted which is the body of Christ and wee truly members thereof in faith and loue through the worke of Gods Spirit being built vpon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets Iesus Christ himselfe being the Corner-stone Secondly because this Church of Rome hath falne from the faith and obedience commended by S. Paul to be in the Church at Rome in his time as appeareth in many particulars before named which the Church first planted at Rome neuer taught neuer beleeued nor practised Therefore are we no Schismatikes for leauing her in those things wherein she hath left the true and Apostolike Church at the beginning Thirdly for that wee doe not breake off from her simply but in some respect that is as farre foorth as she hath forsaken her former selfe so that if shee would returne to the Catholike Faith and Religion and forsake her Trentisme Iesuitisme and Popery the inuentions of her owne added to that which first she did professe wee want not charitie towards her to vnite our selues vnto her againe For otherwise neither our true loue to God nor true loue to his Church will suffer vs to liue with her so defiled as she is in the spirituall bond of sacred loue which knits the true members of Christ one to another Heauenly charity which maketh this vnitie admitteth not of such things into the vnitie of faith as bee taught and practised in that Church both sinfull against God and pernicious to mens soules yea vtter destruction to them without hearty repentance Fourthly wee haue a warrant yea a commandement from God to separate our selues from her for that she is become the great Whore and spirituall Babylon Reuel 18.4 This charge of God freeth vs from Schisme for there is no sin no Schisme in that which God commandeth to be done Fifthly we by leauing this Romish Church doe not deuide our selues from the true Catholike and Apostolike Church but by this separation doe we indeed returne to the vnitie of it and to our first blessed estate therein when first the Gospell was here planted in this Iland by Apostles or Apostolicall men which came hither not from Rome but from Ierusalem our Mother Church where the Lord and his blessed Apostles first began to teach and erect a Church which is the Church we returne vnto in doctrine and worship of God from which Holy Catholike and Apostolike Church wee were drawne by the vsurping and tyrannical power and iurisdiction of the Pope and his faction and the generall backsliding of this his Church So as this which they call Schisme is no Schisme in vs but a forsaking of schisme in them and is only a returning vnto and a recouerie of our selues againe to our former vnion with Christs true Church beginning at Ierusalem and planted here many hundred yeeres before the Monke Austin euer came into England Sixthly They are properly called Schismatikes saith Aquinas which of their owne accord and will separate themselues from the vnitie of the Church If this be true in the iudgement of this their owne so greatly honoured Doctor then certainely wee are no Schismatikes First of our owne accord and will we make not a separation but are inforced therto by the power of Gods commandement to come out of this Babylon to auoyde her sinnes to escape thereby her punishments She her selfe hath caused deuision and offences contrary to the doctrine which shee once receiued as the Epistles of S. Paul and S. Peter do in many particulars witnesse against her The Apostle S. Paul therefore wils vs to auoyde her and such as cause deuision and offences contrary to the Apostles doctrine Rom. 16.17 It may seeme from hence that a faction begun euen then among you Secondly we doe not separate from the Church that is from the vniuersall Catholike Church but from a Church that is the particular Church of Rome for Thomas doth not say He is a Schismatike which separateth from a Church but from the vnitie of the Church to wit the Church vniuersall which is but one For indeed no reason can bee giuen why any should deuide themselues from the true Catholike Church but good reasons may be giuen why a particular Church may be and ought to bee forsaken as wee doe giue for our departing from the Church of Rome for we are commanded to forsake Idolaters 1. Cor. 5.11 Heretikes Tit. 3.10 such as bring not the doctrine of Christ and doe not abide therein 2. Ioh. 10. and her that is called Babylon Reuel 18.4 Thirdly before we can be Schismatikes we must forsake the vnitie of the Church Now wherein stands this vnitie Standeth it only in affection of loue or also in the faith of the truth For both these graces the Apostle commendeth the Churches Ephes 1.15 2. Thes 1.3 and faith is preferred to the first place in both Scriptures We haue not forsaken the vnitie of the Faith of which S. Paul speakes Eph 4.13 For we teach the doctrine of the Apostles and no other in any thing when we differ from this present Church of Rome which hath lost her first faith of truth in many things Now can true diuine loue be there kept where faith is lost or can there be charitie to vnite where doctrine doth deuide Can light and darkenesse truth and falsehood cohabite in loue Truth and loue onely dwell together and for truths sake loue separateth from falshood wheresoeuer she finds it And therefore except they can proue that we haue lost the vnitie of faith wee haue not forsaken the vnitie of the Church in loue as the former reasons shew To conclude were the Priests and Leuites Schismatikes which left
Looke beyond Luther OR AN ANSWERE TO THAT QVESTION SO OFTEN AND SO INSVLTINGLY PROPOSED BY our Aduersaries asking vs Where this our Religion was before Luthers time WHERETO ARE ADDED SOVND PROPS TO BEARE vp honest-hearted Protestants that they fall not from their sauing-faith BY RICHARD BERNARD OF Batcombe in Sommersetshire LONDON Imprinted by Felix Kyngston and are to be sold by Edmund Weauer at his shop at the great North-doore of Pauls 1623. TO THE RIGHT WORSHIPFVLL Sir WALTER ERLE Sir CLEMENT COTTEREL KNIGHTS And to their vertuous Ladies euersoundnesse of Faith with the power of Religion and constancie in both most heartie wished Right Worshipfull I Should maruell to see any once professing the truth to turne from the light vnto darkenes from the true Worship and Religion of Christ to the superstition and idolatrie of Antichrist but that I read that our first Parents beleeued Satan before God that men loue darkenesse more then the light and that fornot louing the truth and delighting in vnrighteousnesse God giueth such ouer to beleeue lyes that they may bee damned Could it else otherwise be that so many in this so cleare light of Gods Gospel should fall away What haue our aduersaries now more to pleade for their cause then heretofore they haue had What can they now say which is not alreadie fully answered by our learned men They put out indeed new bookes new in regard of the writing and printing but the reasons one and the same in older written and printed bookes this is in shew a putting of more strength to vphold their ruinous building but not in substance yet thus they beguile the simple and vnstable-minded By many waies they seeke to deceiue and beguile people but especially by accusing our Religion of falshood and nouelty and affirming theirs to bee the true and most ancient faith in both which they speake very vntruely For touching this their present Religion as it differeth from ours and as it is Popery it is but a new vpstart Religion a patcherie of Iudaisme Paganisme and Heresie a Religion deuised by men and not hauing God for the Author How farre our Religion is from falshood and noueltie I haue here indeuoured to shew answering to that question so often propounded Where it was before Luthers time If any of our aduersaries or all of them together dare to goe plainely to worke for hitherto they haue not and first set downe ours and their accord wherein and how farre we and they in euery thing doe agree to cut off hereby all needlesse strife and contentions Secondly then truely and faithfully without equiuocall termes to deliuer their distinct differences from vs that so euery one may rightly discerne whereabout we do contend and what indeede their now present Religion is which we call Popery bing seuered from our common agreement Thirdly to bring these their differences to the due triall of Scriptures the common principles of Christianitie and the true writings of the ancient Fathers in the first Ages then will it clearely appeare to euery one of indifferent iudgement whether ours or theirs be the true Religion and whether ours or theirs be the false Church In the meane space till they proceede thus vprightly and sincerely I hope no Protestant in earnest will be insnared and catched by their deceites Let such as in the plentifull meanes of knowledge wilfully liue in ignorance or hauing knowledge liue lewdly without feare of God loue of truth and power of Religion be the prey for craftie Foxes for these be the fittest subiects for them to worke vpon and these only preuaile they with receiuing a iust punishment for their contempt of sauing knowledge or for their consciencelesse liuing contrary to their knowledge For there is no man of right vnderstanding and that makes conscience of his waies louing the truth walking humbly before his God being acquainted with Gods Word and praying for Gods direction that God either will giue ouer or that can in reason submit vnto this false Antichristian Church if he doe but seriously consider of such things as will worke if not an absolute condemnation yet a most iust suspition of her to be naught as first the vilifying of holy Scriptures locking them vp from the common people as if Gods Word were infectious Secondly her thrusting vpon the people her feigned traditions all besides and many of them against Scripture Thirdly the absurd and vnreasonablenesse of their Latine Seruice which the people vnderstand not Fourthly their idolatrous praying to Saints worshipping stockes and stones and reliques of the dead Fifthly their grosse conceit of Christs corporall presence in the Sacrament Sixthly the feigned miracles and notable coozenages therin found out here and in other Countries the boasting of them a farre off but not able to worke the like among vs. Seuenthly the shamelesse grosse belying of our doctrine and slandring the liues of our learned men as Luther Caluin Beza and others Eighthly the citing in defence of their Religion counterfeit Authors so knowne to be and so condemned to be by the learned on their owne side Ninthly the not permitting freely our bookes among them as wee doe theirs among vs. Tenthly the tying of the people to the Priests lippes and not permitting them to trie their doctrine as we doe The vniust curses dissembling practices and mercilesse cruelties vsed to vphold their Religion swearing for swearing by equiuocations ment all reseruations and Popes dispensations massacres and powder-plots and bloodie persecutions Twelfthly The auoyding of a free generall Councell to heare and determine our differences Who is he that shall consider of these things with iudgement but will suspect this Romish Church to be none of Christs Church if withal he adde hereto the consideration of the differences betweene the wisedome below by which that seate is guided which is earthly naturall sensuall deuilish and the wisdom from aboue by which Christs Church is guided which is pure peaceable gentle easie to be intreated full of mercy and good fruits without partiality and without hypocrisie as Saint Iames writeth I doubt not but that you haue already considered of these premisses and that you are resolued that this is the true Religion and the good way wherein you walke euen the ancient Catholike and Apostolike veritie grounded vpon Scripture and the principles of Christianitie taught by the holy Fathers and Doctors of the Church and confirmed by the blood of blessed Martyrs My desire is that God would continue your loue with encrease of zeale towards the same more and more To this purpose are these my endeuors which I present vnto you praying your fauourable acceptance of my good meaning and hearty wel-wishes and worthie respect vnto your selues and to all that wish well to Sion and pray for the peace of Ierusalem God let them and you with yours to prosper which loue it Amen Your Worships in all Christian seruices to be commanded Richard Bernard Batcombe Sept. 26. Looke beyond Luther OR AN ANSWERE