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A00382 A modest meane to mariage, pleasauntly set foorth by that famous clarke Erasmus Roterodamus, and translated into Englishe by N.L. Anno. 1568; Colloquia. English. Selections Erasmus, Desiderius, d. 1536.; Leigh, Nicholas. 1568 (1568) STC 10499; ESTC S105534 19,556 54

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in the loue of one which is deformed could not finde in his hart to loue me likewise againe Pam. But it is not long time since there was a right notable example of this euil which I now speak off shewed in a certaine yong damzel Ma. In what place and I may be so bold as to ask you Pam. At the Citie Aurelia Ma. Howe many yeares ago Pam. Howe many yeares nay it is scarse yet ten monethes Ma. And what was the Maydes name whereat sticke you Pam. Nothing I knewe hir as well as I knewe you Ma. Why tell you me not hir name then Pam. Bicause I like not the lucke therof I had rather she had had any other name She had euen the verie name that you haue Ma. Who was hir father Pam. He is yet man aliue and amongst the Lawyers is one of chiefe estimation and of substantiall welth Ma. Tell me his name also Pam. Mauritius Ma. His surname Pam. His surname was Aglaus Ma. Liueth the mother yet Pam. She departed of late Ma. Of what disease died shée Pam. Of what disease quoth you for méere sorrow heauinesse And the father himselfe albeit he is a man of a strong nature scaped very narowly Ma. And may I learne at your hand also the name of the mother Pam. With all mine hart who is he that knoweth not Sophrona But what meane you by this questioning Thinke you that I contriue fables for you Ma. Why should I thinke so that is rather to be suspected in oure kinde but tell on what befell vnto this mayde Pam. This damzell was come of an honest stock as I haue said and wanted no welth to hir preferment for bewty and shape of body also goodly to beholde what needeth many words she was well worthy to haue lien by a Prince his side She had a wooer who earnestly besought hir good will a man for personage bewtie not vnlike hir self Ma. And what was his name Pam. Alas God blesse me from the luck hys name also was Pamphilus when he had done all that he could and assayed all waies possible to obtaine hir good will she still obstinately despised him In fine the yong man pined away with sorrow and dyed Not long after this wench beganne to dote vppon such a handsome squire as for his personage I might more rightly call an Ape than a mā Ma. What say you man Pam. She was so farre fallen in the brakes with him that I am not able to expresse Ma. What so proper a wench with so vnsightly a péece Pam. He had a head made like a sugar lofe the heare thereof growing as it were by stitches and that knotted vnkempt full of scurfe and nittes and a good parte of hys scalpe was bared by the disease called Alopecia Alopecia is a disease that causeth the heare to pill off his eies sunk into his head his nosethrils wide turning vpwardes a mouth like an Ouen with rotten téeth and a stamering tongue a scuruy beard a bunch backe a belly like a tode and legges as right as a paire of horse hāmes Ma. Marry sir you describe him to be a very Thersites Thersites a Prince that came with the Greekes to the siege of Troye which in p●rson and condicion was of all other most deformed Pam. Nay besides al this they say he had but one of his eares Ma. Peraduenture he had lost the other in some battaile Pa. No surely euen in peace Ma. Who durst be so bolde to doe that Pam. Who but Dionysius that cutteth of eares at the Pillery Ma. Wel it may be yet that his substance at home was such as made a full mendes for all the deformitie that you haue spoken of Pam. Nay surely he had vnthriftilye spent all and ought more than hee was worth with this suchen an husbande doth this so goodly a wench nowe lead hir life Ma. You haue declared a thing much to be pittied Pam. Surely it is true the Goddesse Nemesis woulde so haue it Nemesis the Goddesse of wrath or indignation that the iniurie of the yong man whome shée despised might be requited of hir Ma. I would rather wish to be destroyed with a thunderbolt out of hande than to be yoked with such a mate Pam. Therfore beware how you prouoke this Ladie who reuengeth disdaine and frame your harte to loue him againe who loueth you Ma. If that may suffice loe I loue you again Pam. But I craue that loue at your hand which should be perpetuall and to loue me as your owne I séeke a wife not a friend Ma. I know that well inough Deliberandum est diu quod statuendum est semel but that thing requireth long deliberation and much aduisement which when it is done cannot be vndone againe Pam. I haue deliberated vppon it to long for my part Ma. Well I réede you take béede least loue who is not the best counseller beguile you for men say that loue is blinde Pam. Nay that loue hath eyes which springeth vpon iudgement I doe not therfore take you to be such a one as you are bicause I loue you but I loue you for that I plainly sée you to be such a one Ma. Beware I say you mistake me not you maye bée ouerséene if you had worne the shoe then you shoulde perceyue where it wringeth Pam. I must put it in a venture although by many good tokens I conceyue a hope of better lucke Ma. Whye are you skilfull in signes and tokens are you become an Augur Augurs bee they which by certaine signes in birdes and beasts descrie things to come Pam. Yea marry am I. Ma. By what Augurall signes I praye you do you coniecture that it shal be thus hath the night Crowe taken hir flight before you Pam. She flieth for fooles Ma. What haue you séene a cowple of Dooues come flying towardes you on the right hande Pam. No such thing but I haue knowne for the space of certaine yeares the verteous and honest behauiour of your parents that is a birde not least to be regarded I think to be come of a good stock Moreouer I am not ignorant with what wholesome instructions and verteous examples you haue bene traded and brought vp by them And truely good education is of more effect than good Parentage This is an other signe which moueth me to conceyue a good hope beside this betwene my parents which I hope I neede not to be ashamed of and yours haue as I suppose bene no smal loue and friendship Yea we our selues from our biggens as they say haue bene brought vp togither not much vnlike one vnto another in nature and disposition Now our age substance estimation and bloude are as well betwéene vs two as betwéene both our parentes in a maner equall Lastly that which in friendship is the chiefe thing your maners séemeth not the worste to square vnto my minde and liking for it maye bee that a thing is simply and
what is the matter my swéete harte for me thinks you are waxed more sterne and graue countenaunced then to fore you had wont Sophronius I would gladly talke with you friendlye in some place aparte from all companye Lucres Why are we not here alone my luste Sophronius No let vs go our selues into some place yet more secret and priuie Lu. Be it so let vs go into my inwarde chamber if ought you list to doe Sophronius Yet mee thinketh this place is not close secret ynough Lucres Why whence comes this new shamefastnesse vpon you I haue a Closet wherein I lay vp my Iewels and array a place so darke that vnneth the one of vs shall sée the other So. Looke round about it if there be any crany or rifte Lu. Here is not a cranye nor rifte to be séene So. Is there no body néere that mought listen and here vs Lu. No verily not a flie my ioy why doubt you why go you not about your purpose So. Shall wée here beguile the eies of God Lu. Not so for he seeth thorow all things So. Or shall wée be out of the sight of his Aungels Lu. Neyther for no bodie can hide him out of their sight So. How happeneth it then that we be not ashamed to doe that before the eies of God and in the presence of his holy Aungels which wée woulde be ashamed to doe in the syght of men Lu. What a strange thing is this came you hither to preache put yée on one of Saint Frances cowles and get ye vp into the Pulpit and let vs heare you there my yong Beardling So. Neither would I thinke it much so to doe if by that meane I might call you backe from thys kind of life not only most foule shameful but also most miscrable Lu. And why so good sir I must get my liuing one way or other euery man liueth and is maintained by his craft science this is our trade our lands and reuenues So. I would to God good friende Lucres that you voyding for a while this dronkennesse of the mynde coulde finde in your heart rightly to ponder and consider with me the thing as it is Lu. Kéepe your sermond till an other time nowe let vs take our pleasure my good friende Sophronie So. All that you doe you doe it for lucre and gaines I am sure Lu. Therin you haue gone nere the marke So. Well you shall loose noparte of that which you make your accompt vppon I will giue you euen foure times as much onely to lend me your attentiue care Lu. Say on then euen what you please So. First aunswere me to this Haue you any that beareth you euill wil Lu. Mo then one So. And ●re there not some againe whome you hate likewise Lu. Euen as they deserue at my hande So. Now if it lay in thée to pleasure them wouldest thou in faith do it Lu. Nay sooner woulde I giue them their bane So. Verie well consider now consider I saye whither ought thou mayest doe to them more pleasaunt and better lyked then to let them sée thée leade this maner of lyfe so shamefull and wretched On the other side what canst thou do more to the griefe and misliking of them which be thy verye friendes in déede Lu. Such was my lot and destinie So. Moreouer that which is compted to be the most harde and heauie happe of those which are cast out into Ilands or banished vnto the people most in humaine and barbarous the same haue you of your owne frée will and election taken vnto your selfe Lu. And what is that So. Hast not thou of thine accorde renounced forsaken all naturall affections and loues your father mother brethren sistrene aunt great aunt whomsoeuer beside nature hath linked vnto thée for they in v●●ye déede are full euill ashamed of thée and thou darest not once come into their sight Lu. Naye marrye mée thinkes I haue luckilye chaunged myne affectes in that for a few louers nowe I haue won me verie many among whome you are one whome I haue accompted off as my naturall brother So. Let passe this light accustomed talke way the matter as it is in earnest And first beléeue mee this my Lucres shee that hath so many louers hath no loue at all They that resort vnto thée doe not take thée for their loue but rather for their luste sée howe thou hast debased thy selfe wretched Woman Christ helde thée so deere that hée vouchsafed to redéeme thée with his most precious bloud to the ende thou mightest partake with him in his heauenlye kingdome And thou makest thy selfe a cōmon Gonge or muckhill wherevnto fowle and filthy scalde and scuruie doth at their pleasure resort to shake off their filth and corruption That if thou be yet frée and not infected wyth that lothsome kinde of leprie commonly called the french pockes assure thy selfe thou cannot long be wythout it Which if it chaunce thée to haue what in more miserable and wretched case then thou yea though other things were as thou wouldst wish I meane thy substance and fame what shalt thou then be but a lump of quick carraine you thought it a great matter to be obedient vnto your mother now you liue in seruitude vnder a filthie bawde It went to your heart to heare the good aduertisements of your father here you must often tymes take in good parte euen the stripes of dronkardes and madbraines you coulde awaye with no maner of worke when you were with your friendes to helpe towardes your lyuing but in this place what trouble what continuall watcking are you faine to sustaine Lu. From whence and God will coms this new prating preacher So. Now I praye thée haue this also in thy minde The flower of beautie which is the baite that allureth men to loue thée in shorte time it shall fade and decaye And what shalt thou then doe vnhappie creature what donghill shall be more vile and vnregarded than thou then than loe thou shalt of an hoore become a bawde yet euery one of you commeth not vnto that promotion but if that befalleth thee what is more abhominable or nerer reprocheth euen to the wicked occupacion of the deuill Lu. Truth it is in good faith Sophronie in a maner all that you haue hitherto sayde But howe commeth this newe holinesse vpon you who were wont to be amongst all the little goods yet one of the least for no man repaired hither eyther oftener or at more vntimely howres than your self I heare say you haue béene at Roome latelie So. I haue so in deede Lucres Why men are wont to come from thence worse than they went thither How happeneth the contrarie to you So I will tell you bycause I went not to Rome with that minde and after that sort other commonlie goe to Rome euen of set purpose to retourne woorse so doing they want none occasions when they come there to be as they purposed But I went thither
are a Philosopher Pam. Bicause pardie the soule or minde is in heauen where it hath that which it vehemently loueth is not present with the body Ma. And what is next what conclude you vpon this Pam. Askest thou what O cruell euen this necessarily followeth my selfe to be deade and thy selfe to bée a murtherer Ma. Why where is your soule become and God wil Pam. There it is where it loueth Ma. And who hath rest it from you why sigh you man speake and feare not you shall not be hindered by me Pam. A certaine cruell and pittilesse mayde whome neuerthelesse I cannot finde in my hart to hate being by hir spoyled of my life Ma. Ah a louing hart ah gentle nature But why do you not againe take from hir hir soule and serue hir as they saye with the same sause Pam. The happiest in the worlde were I if I could make that exchaunge I meane that hir minde might come dwell in my brest in sorte as mine hath wholye dwelled in hir body Ma. But wil you giue me leaue now eftsones a while to play the Sophister his part with you Pam. Nay the Sophistresse parte Ma. Is it possible that one and the same bodie both haue the soule and be without the soule Pam. Not both togither or at one time Ma. When the soule is awaye then the body you say is deade Pam. Truth Ma. And it lyueth not but when the soule is present withall Pam. Be it so verily Ma. How commeth this to passe then that the soule being there where it loueth the body yet wherout it is departed neuerthelesse lyueth for if it lyueth in one place when it loueth in an other by what reasō is it called Exanime Corpus as you would say a lifelesse body since it hath life and sense in it Pam. By saint Marie you playe the Sophistres meetelye well howbeit you cannot snarle me in such chicken bandes That soule which after a sort gouerneth the bodye of a liuing creature being in suche case is improperly called the soule for in very dede it is a certaine small portion of the soule which remaineth behind euen as the sauor of Roses tarieth still in the hande of him which bare them when the very Roses themselues be done away Ma. I sée well inough it is hard to take a foxe in a pitch but answere me to this also Is not he a doer which murthereth Pam. What else Ma. And is not the partie a sufferer who is murthered Pam. Yes Ma. How commeth it to passe then that since he which loueth is the doer and shée which is beloued is but the sufferer she should be infamed for a murtherer which is beloued When as in verie déede he that loueth rather murthereth himself Pam. Nay it is contrarie for he that loueth suffreth she that is beloued doth Ma. That shall you neuer proue true with the consent of our chiefe Areopagites of Grammer Pam. But this will I proue true by the consent of the whole Parliament of Logitians Ma. But aunswere me to this againe loue you with your wil or against your wyll Pam. With my will Maria. Ergo sithence it is in frée choise to loue or not to loue whoso loueth is a murtherer of himselfe and wrongfullye accuseth the poore wench beloued Pam. Why I say not that the wench murthereth bicause she is beloued but bicause she loueth not againe the party which loueth hir for truth it is she is guilty of murther which might saue a mans life and will not Ma. I put case a yong man cast his loue vpon one which he ought not to loue or maye not lawfully obtaine as an other man hys wyfe or a Virgine which hath professed continuall chastitie shall she loue him againe so to preserue and saue hir louer Pam. But this yong man loueth that which to loue is both lawfull and godly and standeth both with reason and equity and yet neuerthelesse is cast away That in case you set light by the crime of homicide I will aguilt you also of sorcerie and enchaunting me Ma. Marrie gods forbod man what will you make of me a Circes ympe a witch Pa. Yea and somewhat more cruell yet than euer was Circes For I had rather be a groueling Hog or beare then as I am without life or soule Ma. And with what kinde of sorcerie I praye ye doe I destroy men Pam. By euill aspect Ma. Will you then that I hurt you no more with loking vpon you Pam. Not so for Gods sake but rather looke more vpon me Ma. If mine eyes be witches how hapneth it then that other also do not consume awaye whome I looke vpon as ofte as you therfore I feare me much that bewitching is in your owne eyes not in mine Pam. Why thinke you it not inough to flea Pamphilus except you triumph ouer him being dead Maria. Oh queint handsome nise dead body when shall your funerals be prouided for Pam. Sooner than you thinke ywisse except you remedie in time Ma. I remedie good Lord am I able to doe such a cure Pam. Yea surely all were I deade it lyeth in you to rayse me vp againe to life and that with a light thing Maria. As you say peraduenture I might doe it if some bodye woulde helpe me to the herbe Panaces wherevnto they ascribe so great a vertue Pam. There needeth none herbes to doe it only vouchsafe to loue againe what is more easie to be perfourmed nay rather what is more due and iust otherwise you shall neuer acquite your selfe of manspilling Maria. And before what iudgement seate shall I be arrayned before the seuere Areopagetes and God will Pam. Not so but before the tribunall seate of Venus Maria. Best of al for they say she is a patient and pitiful Goddesse Pam. Say you so there is not one amongst them all whose wrath is more to be feared Ma. Why hath she a thunderbolte Pam. No. Maria. Hath she a thréeforked mase like Neptune Pam. Not so Ma. Hath she a speare as Pallas Pam. Neyther but shée is a Goddesse of the Sea Maria. I come not within hir kingdome Pam. But she hath a boye Maria. I feare no boyes Pam. He is readie to reuenge and will paye home when he striketh Ma. And what shall he doe to me Pam. What shall he doe the gods fore let him I will prognosticate none euill vnto one whome I beare good will Ma. Yet tell me I pray you I will take no conceit of it Pam. Then will I tell you if you shall disdaine this louer who doubtlesse is not vnworthie your loue verily I beleue that same boy peraduenture at the cōmaundement of his mother wyll thirle into your heart a launce embrued with to bad a poyson wherby you shal set your affection miserably vppon some hoblout who shall not loue you any whit againe Ma. Marrie that were a plague in déede of all other most to be detested Certes I had rather to die than to be entangled