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love_n act_n conceive_v great_a 68 3 2.1123 3 false
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A85312 Of schism. Parochial congregations in England, and ordination by imposition of hands. Wherein Dr. Owen's discovery of the true nature of schism is briefly and friendly examined, together with Mr. Noyes of New England his arguments against imposition of hands in ordination. / By Giles Firmin, sometime of new England, now pastor of the Church at Shalford in Essex. Firmin, Giles, 1614-1697. 1658 (1658) Wing F958; Thomason E1819_1; ESTC R209761 90,499 170

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which_o man_n profess_v in_o subjection_n to_o one_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n be_v initiate_v into_o that_o profession_n be_v so_o that_o body_n by_o baptism_n 2._o it_o be_v such_o a_o body_n as_o with_o its_o head_n make_v up_o christ_n v._o 12._o but_o if_o one_o particular_a church_n relate_v to_o its_o head_n be_v christ_n what_o be_v all_o the_o other_o how_o many_o christ_n shall_v we_o have_v for_o my_o part_n i_o conceive_v as_o all_o true_a believer_n make_v up_o but_o one_o spiritual_a body_n to_o which_o christ_n be_v a_o save_v and_o spiritual_a head_n so_o all_o the_o particular_a church_n in_o the_o world_n be_v but_o one_o body_n visible_a of_o which_o christ_n be_v the_o political_a head_n every_o true_a believer_n be_v say_v to_o be_v marry_v to_o christ_n and_o of_o this_o church_n paul_n say_v he_o have_v espouse_v they_o to_o christ_n and_o be_v not_o thousand_o more_o but_o we_o do_v not_o read_v rev._n 22.17_o bride_n say_v come_v nor_o of_o the_o lamb_n wife_n ch_n 21.9_o but_o the_o lamb_n bride_n and_o wife_n thus_o the_o catholic_n visible_a body_n be_v call_v the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n not_o kingdom_n though_o by_o reason_n of_o the_o numberless_a number_n the_o lord_n bid_v one_o pastor_n feed_v you_o my_o flock_n there_o and_o another_o feed_v you_o my_o flock_n there_o etc._n etc._n yet_o but_o one_o flock_n one_o body_n these_o meeting_n of_o this_o great_a body_n be_v in_o a_o manner_n accidental_a to_o the_o church-catholick_n by_o reason_n of_o the_o numerosity_n of_o its_o member_n for_o can_v we_o conceive_v that_o all_o the_o member_n of_o this_o church_n can_v meet_v in_o one_o place_n and_o partake_v of_o the_o same_o numerical_a ordinance_n orderly_o this_o meeting_n in_o several_a place_n shall_v cease_v 3._o it_o be_v such_o a_o body_n as_o have_v apostles_n set_v in_o it_o v._o 28._o but_o though_o the_o apostle_n be_v officer_n to_o this_o particular_a church_n yet_o not_o to_o this_o only_a but_o to_o the_o catholic_n 4._o it_o be_v such_o a_o body_n that_o the_o member_n of_o it_o suffer_v together_o and_o rejoice_v together_o v._o 26._o but_o this_o mutual_a rejoice_v and_o sympathy_n be_v not_o confine_v to_o the_o member_n of_o that_o particular_a church_n i_o hope_v the_o same_o specifical_a care_n though_o not_o the_o same_o gradual_a care_n i_o think_v such_o a_o distinction_n may_v help_v to_o understand_v the_o 25._o v._o for_o i_o conceive_v there_o be_v some_o near_a tie_n to_o my_o own_o member_n in_o particular_a as_o to_o my_o own_o family_n and_o yet_o to_o have_v no_o care_n of_o other_o member_n of_o another_o church_n though_o i_o see_v they_o in_o danger_n of_o sin_n or_o require_v of_o i_o the_o dispense_n of_o a_o rdinance_n regular_o etc._n etc._n i_o think_v this_o be_v not_o right_a then_o 27._o v._n what_o i_o have_v say_v of_o the_o great_a body_n i_o say_v to_o you_o who_o be_v a_o similar_v part_n of_o this_o great_a body_n and_o so_o call_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n do_v you_o take_v heed_n there_o be_v no_o schism_n among_o you_o thus_o that_o parallel_n text_n rom._n 12.4_o 5._o seem_v to_o be_v mean_v not_o of_o the_o particular_a church_n of_o rome_n but_o the_o catholic_n many_o member_n but_o one_o body_n when_o i_o can_v see_v better_a reason_n give_v i_o to_o prove_v he_o be_v discourse_v of_o a_o particular_a church_n i_o shall_v yield_v to_o they_o q._n but_o how_o can_v schism_n be_v in_o the_o catholick-church_n visible_a this_o must_v be_v inquire_v into_o though_o i_o fail_v in_o the_o open_n of_o it_o yet_o what_o i_o have_v say_v to_o the_o text_n before_o will_v save_v i_o a._n i_o must_v premise_v some_o thing_n then_o come_v to_o the_o answer_n the_o doctor_n p._n 133._o schis_fw-la speak_v of_o the_o catholick-church_n say_v the_o save_a doctrine_n of_o salvation_n by_o jesus_n christ_n and_o obedience_n through_o he_o to_o god_n as_o profess_v by_o they_o be_v the_o bond_n of_o that_o union_n whereby_o they_o be_v make_v one_o body_n but_o under_o favour_n i_o conceive_v the_o doctor_n have_v express_v only_o that_o bond_n which_o be_v between_o the_o body_n and_o the_o head_n but_o be_v there_o no_o ligament_n whereby_o the_o joint_n of_o this_o great_a body_n be_v knit_v to_o each_o other_o sure_o if_o a_o body_n there_o be_v such_o the_o apostle_n eph._n 4.16_o i_o think_v speak_v of_o a_o bond_n among_o the_o member_n and_o by_o the_o 11._o v._n he_o seem_v to_o i_o to_o speak_v of_o the_o catholick-church-visible_a from_o who_o the_o whole_a body_n fit_o join_v together_o and_o compact_v by_o that_o which_o every_o joint_n supply_v according_a to_o the_o effectual_a work_n in_o the_o measure_n of_o every_o part_n make_v increase_v of_o the_o body_n unto_o the_o edify_n of_o itself_o in_o love_n upon_o which_o word_n zanchy_a thus_o concludere_fw-la vult_fw-la apostolus_fw-la quod_fw-la initio_fw-la proposuerat_fw-la fovendam_fw-la esse_fw-la unitatem_fw-la huius_fw-la corporis_fw-la 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together_o if_o the_o apostle_n do_v express_v it_o as_o the_o bond_n sure_o we_o may_v call_v it_o so_o and_o thus_o we_o have_v the_o body_n unite_v to_o the_o head_n and_o each_o member_n one_o to_o another_o to_o the_o preservation_n of_o this_o union_n say_v the_o doctor_n it_o be_v require_v that_o all_o those_o grand_a and_o necessary_a truth_n of_o the_o gospel_n without_o the_o knowledge_n where_o of_o no_o man_n can_v be_v save_v by_o jesus_n christ_n be_v so_o far_o believe_v as_o to_o be_v outward_o and_o visible_o profess_v in_o that_o variety_n of_o way_n wherein_o they_o be_v or_o may_v be_v call_v out_o thereunto_o p._n 134._o to_o which_o i_o add_v and_o unto_o the_o preservation_n of_o that_o bond_n of_o union_n among_o the_o member_n it_o be_v require_v that_o all_o such_o act_n which_o do_v external_o declare_v this_o bond_n of_o love_n whereby_o these_o member_n be_v join_v together_o as_o such_o a_o body_n ought_v careful_o and_o christianly_o to_o be_v perform_v 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divine_n do_v unanimous_o acknowledge_v upon_o that_o 1_o cor._n 10.17_o fractio_fw-la panis_fw-la est_fw-la unitatis_fw-la &_o dilectionis_fw-la symbolum_n say_v pareus_n much_o may_v be_v here_o speak_v i_o know_v there_o be_v other_o way_n by_o which_o christian_n manifest_v their_o love_n and_o so_o do_v heathen_n in_o such_o manner_n as_o now_o be_v scarce_o find_v among_o christian_n but_o for_o the_o manifestation_n of_o their_o love_n to_o each_o other_o as_o such_o a_o body_n there_o be_v no_o way_n that_o i_o know_v of_o nor_o no_o ordinance_n in_o which_o they_o do_v so_o declare_v it_o as_o in_o this_o ordinance_n wherein_o they_o though_o many_o be_v one_o bread_n 1_o cor._n 10.17_o 3._o the_o sacrament_n be_v not_o give_v to_o a_o particular_a church_n primary_o but_o to_o his_o catholick-body_n the_o lord_n give_v they_o and_o so_o be_v the_o external_a pledge_n of_o the_o bond_n of_o union_n between_o the_o member_n of_o this_o great_a body_n that_o the_o sacrament_n 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recusanda_fw-la etc._n etc._n thus_o i_o conceive_v congregational_a classical_a or_o episcopal_a church_n may_v be_v guilty_a of_o schism_n and_o cause_n schism_n in_o the_o catholick-church-visible_a as_o for_o that_o doctrine_n that_o a_o officer_n of_o a_o particular_a church_n must_v administer_v a_o ordinance_n to_o none_o but_o his_o own_o member_n this_o be_v confute_v in_o the_o practice_n of_o all_o church_n that_o i_o know_v of_o and_o i_o suppose_v will_v not_o be_v defend_v to_o this_o i_o add_v suppose_v there_o be_v divers_a member_n of_o several_a particular_a church_n who_o be_v very_o zealous_a for_o prophesy_v and_o they_o must_v have_v their_o liberty_n to_o prophesy_v whether_o they_o have_v ability_n or_o not_o the_o church_n conceive_v that_o the_o gift_n of_o prophesy_v be_v extraordinary_a be_v cease_v therefore_o will_v allow_v no_o such_o liberty_n these_o be_v so_o set_v for_o their_o prophesy_v that_o they_o make_v division_n in_o the_o church_n and_o at_o 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in_o that_o sense_n i_o speak_v hitherto_o of_o the_o doctor_n definition_n as_o for_o his_o design_n to_o free_v all_o the_o congregational_a church_n from_o the_o imputation_n of_o schism_n though_o we_o suppose_v schism_n to_o be_v a_o causeless_a separation_n from_o a_o church_n i_o have_v rather_o wave_v that_o then_o go_v about_o to_o prove_v the_o contrary_a and_o that_o partly_o because_o of_o the_o honour_n which_o i_o bear_v to_o many_o of_o these_o brethren_n partly_o because_o i_o know_v not_o the_o practice_n of_o all_o congregational_a church_n i_o can_v be_v of_o mr._n ca._n mind_n if_o by_o the_o title_n of_o his_o book_n as_o i_o find_v it_o quote_v by_o the_o doctor_n for_o i_o never_o see_v mr._n cawdrey_n independency_n be_v great_a schism_n he_o mean_v that_o congregational_a principle_n will_v necessary_o conclude_v a_o man_n a_o schismatic_a certain_o from_o the_o principle_n as_o our_o divine_n in_o new-england_n hold_v they_o forth_o such_o a_o necessity_n of_o schism_n will_v not_o be_v force_v but_o whether_o all_o in_o england_n can_v quit_v themselves_o i_o doubt_v it_o what_o some_o may_v think_v of_o i_o who_o find_v i_o in_o mr._n edward_n gang_n among_o the_o independent_o and_o now_o read_v this_o i_o know_v not_o possible_o they_o will_v say_v either_o mr._n edward_n write_v what_o be_v false_a or_o that_o i_o be_o change_v from_o my_o principle_n as_o some_o have_v say_v but_o i_o assure_v the_o reader_n i_o be_o not_o go_v back_o nor_o advance_v one_o step_n in_o these_o controversy_n from_o what_o i_o ever_o manifest_v in_o those_o time_n when_o those_o letter_n be_v send_v to_o mr._n edward_n i_o intend_v not_o to_o follow_v the_o dr._n in_o all_o that_o he_o have_v write_v but_o to_o come_v to_o the_o point_n present_o in_o p._n 263._o the_o dr._n tell_v we_o he_o dare_v bold_o say_v the_o holy_a ghost_n have_v command_v a_o
no_o command_n 3._o hence_o there_o be_v no_o independent_a church_n with_o divers_a more_o thing_n which_o i_o will_v draw_v from_o hence_o 2._o i_o answer_v if_o imposition_n of_o hand_n carry_v those_o five_o thing_n in_o it_o which_o chemnitius_n ib._n p._n 221._o tell_v we_o than_o i_o know_v no_o reason_n why_o he_o shall_v call_v it_o a_o indifferent_a thing_n at_o the_o end_n of_o that_o paragraph_n he_o be_v still_o speak_v of_o imposition_n as_o i_o think_v and_o say_v nititur_fw-la mandato_fw-la etc._n etc._n have_v quote_v act_n 13.3_o see_v zanchy_a 4._o praec_fw-la p._n 785_o 786._o doctor_n owen_n in_o his_o review_n before_o quote_v p._n 23_o 24._o say_v for_o that_o part_n of_o ordination_n which_o consist_v in_o the_o imposition_n of_o hand_n by_o the_o presbytery_n where_o it_o may_v be_v obtain_v according_a to_o the_o mind_n of_o christ_n i_o be_o also_o very_o remote_a from_o manage_v any_o opposition_n to_o it_o i_o think_v it_o necessary_a by_o virtue_n of_o precept_n and_o that_o to_o be_v continue_v in_o a_o way_n of_o succession_n it_o be_v i_o say_v according_a to_o the_o mind_n of_o christ_n that_o he_o who_o be_v to_o be_v ordain_v unto_o office_n in_o any_o church_n receive_v imposition_n of_o hand_n from_o the_o elder_n of_o that_o church_n if_o there_o be_v any_o therein_o but_o what_o i_o pray_v if_o there_o be_v no_o elder_n what_o be_v the_o mind_n of_o christ_n then_o that_o they_o must_v be_v ordain_v without_o it_o here_o the_o doctor_n conceal_v his_o judgement_n but_o i_o can_v help_v the_o reader_n to_o understand_v his_o judgement_n if_o he_o have_v not_o change_v it_o he_o will_v have_v ordain_v i_o with_o imposition_n of_o hand_n and_o there_o be_v no_o elder_n in_o our_o church_n to_o do_v it_o if_o the_o other_o minister_n will_v have_v impose_v hand_n also_o then_o still_o i_o have_v reason_n to_o refuse_v a_o ordination_n where_o something_o of_o a_o precept_n be_v leave_v out_o unless_o a_o scripture_n can_v be_v bring_v to_o prove_v that_o the_o necessity_n of_o it_o by_o virtue_n of_o precept_n cease_v where_o there_o be_v no_o elder_n in_o the_o church_n this_o scripture_n be_v desire_v 3._o if_o it_o be_v indifferent_a than_o it_o may_v be_v use_v there_o can_v be_v no_o sin_n in_o use_v it_o we_o have_v a_o apostolical_a example_n for_o it_o confitente_fw-la polano_n then_o 1._o this_o will_v give_v a_o man_n more_o satisfaction_n as_o to_o his_o ordination_n whether_o it_o be_v regular_a or_o not_o when_o he_o find_v it_o answer_v the_o apostolical_a example_n i_o will_v not_o have_v that_o scruple_n to_o lie_v upon_o i_o about_o my_o own_o ordination_n whether_o it_o be_v valid_a or_o not_o because_o i_o have_v imposition_n for_o much_o 2._o this_o will_v tend_v more_o to_o union_n for_o now_o there_o be_v a_o occasion_n of_o difference_n for_o want_n of_o this_o 3._o it_o be_v great_a and_o just_a matter_n of_o offence_n to_o the_o episcopal_a party_n who_o in_o some_o case_n do_v allow_v presbyter_n may_v ordain_v but_o whether_o ordination_n can_v be_v without_o imposition_n of_o hand_n i_o do_v not_o know_v they_o be_v resolve_v for_o the_o affirmative_a thing_n then_o which_o tend_v to_o union_n and_o take_v of_o offence_n and_o scruple_n out_o of_o man_n mind_n if_o they_o may_v be_v do_v and_o no_o sin_n in_o so_o do_v i_o think_v aught_o to_o be_v do_v 4._o imposition_n of_o hand_n which_o we_o conceive_v apostolical_a man_n direct_v by_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n translate_v from_o the_o old_a testament_n to_o the_o new_a have_v a_o express_a command_n for_o it_o in_o the_o separation_n of_o levite_n to_o their_o office_n numb_a 8.10_o it_o be_v not_o indifferent_a then_o why_o now_o 5._o when_o the_o apostle_n give_v timothy_n this_o charge_n lay_v hand_n sudden_o on_o no_o man_n and_o when_o the_o lord_n command_v they_o to_o separate_v paul_n they_o answer_v the_o command_n by_o imposition_n act_v 13._o i_o be_o mistake_v if_o we_o find_v not_o a_o precept_n here_o if_o timothy_n have_v a_o rule_n for_o the_o modification_n of_o his_o act_n and_o that_o act_n for_o aught_o we_o can_v find_v constant_o use_v in_o this_o part_n of_o institute_v worship_n i_o think_v the_o act_n itself_o must_v needs_o be_v command_v for_o act_n in_o themselves_o civil_a and_o use_v among_o man_n even_o heathen_n as_o be_v custom_n of_o nation_n if_o we_o find_v the_o scripture_n many_o hundred_o year_n after_o their_o civil_a use_n to_o add_v a_o modification_n to_o such_o act_n whether_o we_o be_v bind_v to_o such_o act_n where_o there_o be_v no_o such_o national_a custom_n i_o much_o question_n the_o thing_n the_o lord_n intend_v in_o they_o be_v it_o humility_n hospitality_n love_n we_o be_v bind_v to_o that_o be_v true_a but_o i_o suppose_v not_o to_o the_o mere_a civil_a act_n of_o other_o nation_n but_o from_o hence_o to_o cast_v out_o imposition_n i_o can_v yield_v to_o it_o for_o 1._o i_o can_v find_v that_o it_o be_v their_o custom_n to_o separate_v man_n in_o civil_a state_n to_o the_o office_n of_o a_o magistrate_n by_o imposition_n of_o hand_n and_o that_o god_n take_v this_o up_o from_o they_o joshua_n indeed_o be_v thus_o appoint_v to_o his_o office_n but_o by_o a_o command_n from_o god_n numb_a 27.18_o but_o where_o do_v we_o find_v this_o civil_a custom_n before_o thus_o to_o lay_v hand_n on_o magistrate_n 2._o the_o thing_n the_o scripture_n intend_v in_o the_o civil_a act_n of_o nation_n we_o may_v show_v and_o exercise_v though_o we_o follow_v not_o the_o civil_a custom_n of_o other_o nation_n but_o this_o be_v a_o act_n belong_v to_o institute_v worship_n i_o know_v not_o how_o the_o thing_n itself_o be_v perform_v at_o least_o not_o perfect_o without_o it_o 34.9_o deut._n 34.9_o as_o for_o joshua_n though_o the_o spirit_n of_o the_o lord_n be_v give_v in_o a_o large_a measure_n at_o this_o imposition_n yet_o this_o be_v not_o the_o only_a end_n intend_v for_o then_o moses_n may_v have_v impose_v his_o hand_n in_o a_o private_a tent_n and_o not_o before_o all_o the_o congregation_n and_o there_o give_v he_o his_o charge_n v._o 22_o 23._o but_o moses_n do_v by_o this_o act_n declare_v the_o designation_n and_o ordination_n of_o joshua_n to_o his_o office_n before_o the_o whole_a congregation_n so_o it_o be_v in_o ordain_v of_o minister_n 3._o if_o it_o be_v a_o jewish_a custom_n and_o upon_o that_o account_n only_o use_v why_o shall_v paul_n command_v timothy_n a_o greek_a to_o use_v it_o and_o that_o in_o ordination_n of_o officer_n to_o gentile-churche_n where_o no_o such_o custom_n be_v from_o these_o ground_n i_o do_v not_o yet_o look_v upon_o imposition_n as_o be_v a_o thing_n indifferent_a but_o i_o look_v at_o ordination_n without_o it_o at_o least_o as_o irregular_a and_o let_v i_o speak_v my_o mind_n free_o i_o will_v rather_o choose_v to_o be_v ordain_v by_o a_o bishop_n and_o presbyter_n which_o many_o cry_n out_o upon_o as_o antichristian_a then_o be_v ordain_v by_o any_o other_o without_o imposition_n now_o let_v we_o see_v what_o mr._n noyes_n have_v write_v against_o it_o i_o shall_v begin_v at_o his_o three_o argument_n against_o it_o because_o that_o strike_v at_o the_o example_n in_o scripture_n and_o be_v the_o very_a argument_n our_o brethren_n here_o now_o use_v and_o indeed_o if_o that_o can_v be_v make_v good_a i_o shall_v not_o much_o stand_n upon_o imposition_n he_o say_v those_o example_n be_v not_o a_o warrant_n for_o we_o because_o they_o be_v either_o extraordinary_a person_n as_o apostles_n or_o extraordinary_a presbyter_n or_o they_o be_v extraordinary_o raise_v who_o do_v impose_v hand_n to_o that_o of_o timothy_n he_o say_v it_o confer_v a_o extraordinary_a and_o sensible_a gift_n all_o extraordinary_a it_o seem_v but_o by_o this_o we_o shall_v not_o lose_v only_a imposition_n but_o ordination_n also_o which_o yet_o mr._n n._n own_v the_o same_o objection_n be_v against_o ordination_n as_o we_o see_v before_o and_o certain_o if_o mr._n n._n take_v away_o those_o text_n which_o speak_v of_o imposition_n i_o know_v of_o few_o text_n he_o will_v find_v to_o prove_v his_o ordination_n i_o desire_v mr._n n._n will_v give_v we_o strong_a proof_n for_o ordination_n leave_v out_o those_o text_n so_o that_o we_o shall_v have_v nothing_o leave_v but_o election_n and_o i_o think_v he_o will_v hardly_o prove_v any_o election_n wherein_o extraordinary_a person_n have_v not_o their_o hand_n so_o at_o last_o lose_v all_o but_o how_o do_v he_o prove_v these_o impose_v hand_n quà_fw-la extraordinary_a person_n the_o example_n in_o timothy_n the_o presbytery_n which_o lay_v hand_n on_o he_o and_o act_n 13.3_o he_o foresee_v will_v be_v allege_v to_o these_o two_o he_o lay_v in_o answer_n aforehand_o tell_v we_o they_o be_v