naming the holy captain Iosue for the Prophet Ose. fo 98. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fo 100. expresse for represse fol â—od alone hereof for in earth aboue hir fol. 102. but you haue for but your churche hath fol. 104. cansabo for cantabo fol. 111. Antonius for Antoninus And after thou shalt finde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 destruction for distinction could easily for could not easily These and suche other faultes escaped in the printing of my boke as well in the wordes as in the pointing how many so euer thou shalt ascribe vnto me so many iniuries thou shalt doe me He is a simple scholer that can not write truely and the pointing is not so difficult that it requireth any great learning for other things what so euer shalbe founde blame worthy the fault is mine owne and wherein souer the enimy shall finde his fault I doubt not but I shall by Gods grace be able to defend it The force of truth is such that though the patrone be simple yet she will defend hir self especially suche truth as hath made hir selfe so manifest The truthe of God that standeth vpon a hill and may be seene of all men the truth that shineth as a light in a darke place and as the day starre arising in our heartes that truthe whose glorious beautie hath darkned the painted and deceiueable lokes of the purple whore of Babilon It is now no mastery sith we know God to know him that lifteth vp himself against God sith we know Christ to know Antichrist sith we know Peter to know Peters forged successoure And for as much as to this issue al our controuersie is come that what right or authoritie so euer the Pope chalengeth he maketh his whole claime from Peter and the papists themselues will defende him no further but so farre as he succedeth Peter I will speake a little of Peters bishoprike of Rome so farre as the scriptures shall be my warrant Consider thou of it good christian Reader that shall be said and if thou see that all the glorying of Peters being at Rome is but a fasing out of an impudent he then iudge what is their other religion First here I must forwarne thee that as a lie can not long agree with it selfe so in all this matter thou shalt hardly finde in all pointes two popishe chronicles agree togither So that what so euer I wryte as touching the exacte computation of yeres there must needes be many against me Therefore in that I will not striue only I will wryte that which is certaine and shall haue as I said either some warrant of scripture or shall be agreed on by the consent of all ages Our sauioure Christ was crucified for our sinnes the .18 yeare of Tyberius as by all histories it is manifest Peter is said to be put to deathe in Rome the last yeare of Nero so Peter liued after Christ vnder Tyberius .v. yeare Caligula 4. yeare Claudius .13 yeare Nero. 13 yeare In all .36 yeares and odde monthes according to the raigne of the saide Emperoures in these .36 yeares and odde moneths they vvryte of Peter thus He vvas bishop â–ª 4. yeares in the East partes .7 yeares at Antioche and .25 yeares at Rome vvhere at last he died Heere this fable doeth almost bevvray it selfe suche hasty enstallings and so many translatings out of one bishopprike into an other doeth not vvell agree vvith oure sauiours vvordes that they should haue affliction in the vvorlde But let vs searche the scriptures and trie hovve these Bishopprikes vvil stande After that our Sauioure is ascended they goe into Ierusalem all the Apostles togither they choose Mathie the Apostle After fiftye dayes they receiue the holy Ghost Peter conuerteth many After certaine dayes Peter and Iohn goe vppe in to the Temple they heale the lame they are put in prisone they are forbidden to preache anye more in the name of Iesus then they returne vnto the other Apostles and tary many daies togither working many miracles amoÌ„g the people in so much that the Cities round about resorted daily to Ierusalem to haue their sick and diseased healed Then again the Apostles are put in prison and God deliuereth theÌ„ and many dayes they preach in the temple and in euery house After this came a great persecution against the Church at Ierusalem in so much that they were all dispearsed sauing the Apostles Then at the laste after many dayes Peter is sent out of Ierusalem into Samaria where he preacheth in diuers townes about Thus farre good Reader thou seest plainly Peter is no bishop nor yet in any speciall authoritie when the other Apostles sende him out to preache Then he returneth againe to Ierusalem and this is one yeare after the death of our sauioure Christ as the histories do all agree in reporting the conuersion of S. Paule which was nowe done as appeareth Act. 9. This is the yeare of our Lord .35 In the yere of our Lord .38 He dwelleth in Ierusalem Gal. 1.18 Likewise in the yere of our Lorde .46 he is imprisoned at IerusaleÌ„ Act. 12.2 Againe in the yeare of our Lord .48 he is at the councel holden in Ierusalem Act. 15.7 from that day forward he giueth his faith vnto Paule and Barnabas that he will be an Apostle not to the Romaines but to the Iewes Gal. 2.9 vvhich truely he accompliâ—hed euen vntill his death and doubtlesse neuer came at Rome Now christian reader seing the scripture lieth thus that Peters aboade in Ierusalem after the conuersion of S. Paule Anno Domini .35 is recorded .iij. seuerall times And after the last time a couenaunt made that he woulde continue among the Iewes If I shall proue vnto thee that these seuerall times are rightly numbred according to the yeare of the Lorde that is that the first time was the .38 yeare the seconde time the .46 yeare the third time the .48 yeare and then in the meane while betwene the .35 yeare and the .38 likewise the .38 and the .46 and betwene the .46 and .48 that Peter was not in Rome last of all that he was true of his promise and after the .48 yeare came not at Rome then I trust thou wilt confesse with me that Peter was neuer .25 yeares Bishop of Rome But that all poperie as it is in it selfe nothing but lies so it is grounded wholly and altogither vpon lies First it is agreed vpon by all the thing is plaine in it self Paule was conuerted the yere of our Lord .35 TheÌ„ Paule himself writeth thus After three yeres I came to IerusaleÌ„ to see Peter and abode in his house .xv. dayes so this was the .38 yere of our Lord when Peter is first in IerusaleÌ„ When he was after imprisoned at Ierusalem Act. 12.2 that it was the .46 yeare of our Lorde it is proued thus The countreis about â–ª that is Tyre and Sidon were
then nourished with the kings prouision But that prouision Claudius made in the great famine ▪ the .4 yere of his raigne which was the yeare of our Lord .46 Againe immediatly after the scripture mēcioneth the death of Herode But Herode was made king in the first yeare of Caligula and raigned 7. yeare so he died in the .4 yeare of Claudius And consequently as is said the .46 yeare of our Lorde Peter being now in prison at Ierusalem and thus the seconde time that Peter is mencioned to be in Ierusalem is the .46 yeare of Christ. Afterward when the Apostles helde the councell in Ierusalem that it was the .48 yeare of our Lord it is proued by S. Paule who after he had mentioned his conuersion and his first going to Ierusalem whereof we spake before he saith thus Then after .14 yeres I went vp again to Ierusalem So it was the .48 yeare of our Lord this being .14 yeare after his conuersion and he conuerted in the .35 of our Lorde and thus it is proued that in the yeares of our Lord .35.38.46.48 Peter was in Ierusalē Now it resteth to proue that in the meane space Peter came not to Rome That he was not at Rome betwene the .35 and the .38 yeare I haue this profe In the yeare of our Lorde .37 Pilate wrote his letter◠vnto Tiberius the Emperor of Christ and of his doctrine and how the Iewes accompted him a God whereby the Emperoure was so moued that he wold nedes make Christ a God in Rome ▪ If Peter had bene in Rome Pilates letters had not ben necessary The Emperor should haue had better instruction Thus in those three yeares Peter was not in Rome Betwene the .38 yere and the .46 yeare they say suche is their impudencie that Peter was Bishop all the while at Antioche If it be so then by their owne confession he was not at Rome But the scripture is plain he was neither at Antioche nor yet at Rome And howe these 7. yeares are passed marke and thou shalt see In the beginning of these .7 yeares Peter goeth forth a preaching First into all Iury Galile and Samaria which wold require some cōtinuance Afterward he goeth vp to the saints at Lidda and there tarieth From thence he goeth to Ioppe and there tarieth dies multos a long while From thence he goth to Caesarea and ther couerted Cornelius the first gentile that euer he conuerted as is plain by the scriptures then he abideth certain dayes at Caesarea all this well nigh .400 miles from Antioche and now for profe he maketh no hast to Antioche he commeth home againe to Ierusalem where he is againe ioyned with the Apostles And now the Apostle heare word that certaine gentiles at Antioche are conuerted not by Peter but by the disciples that fled when Steuen was stoned Act. 7.60 8.1 Well did the holy ghost here name them that preached this while at Antioche or else here had ben some coloure for Peters bishoprike But marke further when the Apostles heare this to confirme the gentiles they send to Antioche But vvhome sende they Peter Sure they vvoulde haue done had he then bene their bishop but Peter abideth still in Ierusalem and Barnabas is sent to Antioche where he abideth after goth in to Tarsus to Paule from thēce they come againe bothe to Antioche and there tary afterwarde one whole yeare About this time saith the scripture Peter was put in prison which was as is proued the yeare of our Lord .46 And that he continued in Ierusalem euer since Barnabas was sent to Antioche we haue this coniecture When he was deliuered out of prison and knockt at Maries dores Rhoade the maide knewe him by his voice And so well that the Disciples said she was madde or else it was Peters angell Yet were the thing neuer so incredible she said she was sure it was euen he This perfecte knowledge of a mannes voyce required some continuaunce of acquaintaunce And thus we are come to the .7 yeare of his bishoprike of Antioche in which time he yet neuer came at Antioche Nowe the yeare of our Lord .46 the .4 of Claudius he goeth from Antioche to Rome and there is bishop .25 yeares 2. months .8 dayes from the .16 of Ianuary to the .24 of March Suche accompt I trow they make that tell vs how many mile it is to heauen But be it so he is gone out of the prisone in Ierusalem .2000 mile of to Rome to be made bishop If the story of dame Ioane were so incredible as this maister Harding vvith some countenaunce might haue written against it But let vs go foreward In the yeare of our Lorde .48 notwithstanding this posting to Rome he is yet at Ierusalem And from hēceforth that he ment not to goe to Rome but kepe his promise that he would continue among the Iewes we haue this profe First his othe where Iames Peter and Iohn doe sweare vnto Paule and Barnabas that they would execute their Apostleships among the Iewes Which sure Peter woulde not haue done if he had thought to haue gone to Rome and all the Papists in the world shall neuer be able to ansvver it iangle hovv they vvil that Peter vvas bishop of Rome He vvas not he ment it not he kept his promisse Paule calleth him the Apostle of circumcision He vvas aftervvarde among the Ievves at Antioche he vvryteth ▪ his Epistle to the Ievves that vvere straungers and scattered abroade in Asia euen as Iames dothe to the tvvelue Tribes scattered among the nations and Iohn to them that had heard and seene from the beginning vvhich vvere the Ievves Thus did those Apostles minde their promise though vve talke of bishopprikes vve knovve not vvhat But bicause there are yet three and twenty yeares behinde let vs as vve may examine them by the scriptures In the Actes vve read that Priscilla and Aquila and all the residue of the Ievves vvere banished out of Rome But this vvas done the .9 yeare of Claudius Anno Domini .51 When now Peter should haue bene more than .5 yeare bishop in Rome Thus yll may this fable agree vvith the scriptures of God But let vs examine it further About six yeares after this and the beginning of the raigne of Nero Paule wryteth his Epistle to the Romaines as appeareth for that he then caried vp to Ierusalem for the pore saints there abiding suche distribution as they of Macedonia and Achaia had gathered which was a little before Paules last going to Ierusalem as most writers agree in the last yeare of Claudius And for profe it was so now al things are quiet at Rome Paule saluteth Priscilla and Aquila which in the .9 of Claudius were bothe banished and the Actes doe specifie certaine yeares after in which Paule and they were togither So now being at Rome againe it agreeth wel that the Epistle to the
Romains was written about the beginning of the raigne of Nero and the yeare of our Lorde .56 at which time Peter was not at Rome as may be proued aboue all gesses and coniectures out of the worde of God First he saluteth diuers by name and yet he speaketh not of Peter a sure profe that Peter was not at Rome Againe he saluteth Andronicus and Iunia with this especial note which are notable among the Apostles and were in Christ afore me How muche more occasion had Paule thus to salute and commende Peter whome he calleth other where a piller of the Church and who was not only before Paule but before all men sauing Andrew his brother called to be a disciple Nothing may be here answered but that only which is true Peter was not at Rome If these reasons seme not strong inoughe then good Reader loke in the .15 to the Romaines thou shalt haue an other which by no meanes may be shifted off Thus he wryteth I enforced my self to preache the gosple not where Christ was named least I should haue built vpon an other mannes foundation but as it is vvritten to vvhome he vvas not spoken of they shall see him and they that heard not shall vnderstande him Then he addeth therefore also I haue bene oft let to come vnto you by which words it is manifest they had but weake maintenaunce of their faith and the true Disciples had no long continuaunce among them But how could this be if Peter were .25 yeare Bishop there Again he saluteth the houshold of Narcissus which Narcissus saith Ambrose vvas Presbiter eius ecclesiae a chiefe ruler in that churche and hovv coulde Paule here haue forgotten Peter being Archpresbiter the chiefe of all rulers and Pope himselfe Thus are vve past .xj. yeare of this Bishoprike and yet vve can not once finde S. Peter in his diocesse In the yeare of our Lord .58 and the seconde of Nero Paule commeth to Rome and then Peter is not at Rome as appeareth by this saying of the Scripture vvhere the chiefe of the Ievves in Rome speake thus vnto Paule We vvill heare of thee vvhat thou thinkest for as concerning this secte vve knovve that euery vvhere it is spoken againste Then vvhen Paule had preached vnto them and some beleued and some beleued not The text saith vvhen he had said these the Ievves departed and had great reasoning among them selues Is it possible that Peter should now haue bene thirtene yeare bishop and yet the chiefe of the Ievves that vvere there vvhen Paule came had scarce any vnderstanding of Christ â–ª They may beleue it that vvill nedes be deceiued Tvvo yeare after this vntill the yeare of our Lorde 60. the fourthe of Nero Paule abideth in Rome All vvhich while vndoubtedly Peter came not once there as may plain appeare if thou reade the Epistles vvhich Paule vvrote in Rome To the Galathians he speaketh muche of Peter and of his conuersation vvith him about tvventy yeares paste but of his present being at Rome not one vvorde and yet he speaketh of him to this purpose to get the more credite vnto himselfe vvhy then doeth he not name him as novve present vvith him In like case vvryting to the Philippians he beginneth his Epistle thus Paule and Timothie vvhy coulde he not heere haue begon Paule and Peter Nay what folly vvas it to bring Peters testimonie many yeares past vvhich novv might be doubted of vvhen he might haue had his present and most certaine vvitnesse vvith subscription of his ovvne hande to confirme his doctrine Againe he vvryteth thus vnto the Philippians that many brethren in the Lord vvere boldned through his bandes and durste frankely speake the worde if bandes would haue made them faithfull no doubt Peter had long before confirmed them surely he would not haue shronke neither for chaines nor prisones It is his owne doctrine that heere vnto we are called he coulde not so sone haue forgotten his owne good councell Againe Paule wryteth he had no man like minded as Timothy was how coulde this be if Peter had bene there Againe he wryteth he had only Aristarchus his prisone felow sure Peter would haue bene in prisone too if he had bene in Rome Againe Marke and Iustus are onely my felow workers and shall we thinke that Peter was now bishop yet would not helpe Paule in preaching Read ouer all Paules Epistles written in Rome and if the spirite of truthe be within thee thou wilt say Peter was not in Rome yet now he shoulde haue bene euen in the floure of his bishoprike Nowe are there only lefte ten yeares behinde in which likewise it shall appeare whether Peter were in Rome At the latter ende of this ten yeare Anno Domini .7d Neronis .14 Paule commeth againe to Rome and is againe imprisonned whence he wryteth his seconde Epistle to Timothie as Ierome and Eusebius and diuers other doe thinke Then Peter is not in Rome Only Luke is vvith me saith S. Paule if this be true vvhere then vvas Peter Shall vve thynke he vvoulde not once see Paule a prisonner Againe at my first aunswering no man assisted me but all forsoke me O vnthankefull vvretches and deseruing yll of Peter that vvoulde novve thinke Peter vvere Bishoppe But heere are nowe nine yeares in the meane season in vvhich it is sone proued Peter coulde be no bishop Paule reioysed that he had escaped out of the hands of Nero. But what needed he if that Peter could set quietly bishop Seneca wryteth secretely epistles vnto Paule and Paule vnto Seneca but neuer a worde of Peter Nero made proclamation that no man shoulde speake either to Christian or to Iewe and howe coulde then Peter be bishop Nero when he had set the Citie on fire in the .9 yeare of his raigne to auoid the enuye of so great a mischiefe he layde all the fault vpon the Christians whereof Tacitus that wicked heathen wryteth thus Repressa in praesâ—ns exitiabilis supersticio rursus â—rumpâ—bat That wicked superstition that was now well repressed sprang vp againe But is it like if Peter had bene then bishop that christianitie shoulde haue bene so quenched that no man did scarce remember it But be it that all this were true let Peter become vnfaithfull let him forget to professe Christ and feede his flocke were he neuer so vnthankfull yet sure he coulde not be then bishop of Rome For in the .10 yeare of his raigne Nero made suche great persecution of all Christians that in no place they coulde be sure but euery where were drawne forthe vnto moste shamefull deathes and this persecution continued .4 yeares without intermission and how vvas Peter then a bishop They had beastes skinnes put vpon them and then were weryed with dogges they laide them on heapes and burnt them to giue light in the night time they hong them vp quicke vpon gibbets they practised all kinde of
vnto vs. And he that knoweth God heareth vs and the worde whereby the righteousnesse of God is knowne is the word of faith which we preache And plainly S. Paule calleth it the word of reconciliation And the Gospell is the power of God vnto saluation to al them that beleue And Peter witnesseth that the Gospell is preached to the ende men might liue vnto God and Christ sanctified his Churche by the washing of water throughe the worde Not one place in the scripture that we be sanctified by priuate Masse or daily sacrifice But let vs let these sacrificers alone They be blinde leaders of the blinde Read more of this in the epistle and in the .75 vntruthe The B. of Saris. The .26 Diuision S. Augustine saith the people receiued euery day Harding The .133 vntruthe He saith not so Dering Note this is all one vntruthe with the .83 and .145 These are S. Augustines words the daily bread may be taken for the sacrifice of Christes body which we receiue euery day Maister Harding saith he ment this of himselfe only and of other priests and he saith it only and doeth not proue it and vpon credite of his owne words doth quote an vntruthe With like facilitie I could make answer it were not vntrue but words without reason I will leaue vnto maister Harding to proue that S. Augustine ment the daily vse of their open Churche and that some did euermore receiue it may appeare as we reade in the Acts that those which came vnto the Church of Christ continued daily in breaking of bread and prayers by breaking of bread meaning the Communion And in an other place when the Disciples came together they brake breade and Paule preached And we reade in the .1 to the Corinthians the .11 Chapter When they came together they did eate the Lords supper Héereby it appeareth that in the Apostles time this daily receiuing was in vse though of Massing for the quicke and deade of shutting the bread in a boxe of worshipping it of carying about there be not one worde immediatly after c. About .200 yeares after this Tertullian wryteth Eucharistia sacramētum c. iam antelucanis sumimus temporibus We receiue the Eucharist euer before day And in an other place thy husband shall not know what thou tastest secretely before other meates By this it appeareth the Christians did vsually receiue euery morning S. Cyprian about 50. yeares after wryteth How shall we make them méete for the cuppe of martyrdom if first we do not giue vnto them the cup of the Lords bloud noting that in that great persecution they receiued daily in the morning Againe he wryteth Grauior nūc ferocior pugna imminet ad quam fide incorrupta virtute robusta parare se debent milites Christi And it foloweth Considering therefore they daily receiue the cup of the bloud of Christ they also for Christ may shed their bloud He saith further we require that this bread may be giuen vs daily least we that are in Christ Eucharistiam quotidie ad cibum salutis accipimus and daily receiue the Eucharist which is the meate of our saluation should be by any great offence seperated from Christ. Thus it appeareth in plaine wordes that in Cyprians time they receiued daily The like appeareth by Eusebius lib. 1. de demonst Euangelica cap. 10. Diuers other places may be brought which all proue M. Hardings aunswer to be vaine and doe wel expound the meaning of S. Augustine Chrysostome saith semper communicabant they did alwayes Communicate And maister Harding doeth alleage bothe him and Augustine himselfe for proofe of the daily sacrifice Now wher they say that we offer daily and yet confute sufficiently this newe fansied transubstantiation it is plaine they ment of this daily Communion and of the often vse of it maister Hardings Ignatius in like manner wryteth when this is done continually the powers of Sathan are driuen away These and diuers suche proofes may be had out of Ierome Ambrose Iustine Irenaeus and other many for this daily receiuing and therfore these vntruthes must néedes be little worthe that are so plentifully challenged and may so easily be answeared But whose aucthoritie should I rather vse in this case than maister Hardings owne Doctors they wryte it often and teache very plainly that in the primatiue Church they receiued daily Thomas Aquinas writeth thus In the primatiue church when the people were very deuout in the Christian faith it was decréed vt fideles quotidie communicarent that the faithfull people should receiue daily Durandus saith in the primatiue Church omnes fideles quotidie communicabant all the faithfull receiued daily Loe héere are maister Hardings owne Doctors which doe sufficiently answere his vntruth Here by the way of this one thing I must moreouer warne the good Christian reader that M. Harding is not able to shewe any one sufficient proofe whereby it may appeare that the Churche in any place within CCC yeares after Christ did appoint any one day especially for that purpose as their confederacie at Trident haue of late straightly charged It appeareth by S. Luke they met daily and it appeareth by Paule to the Ephesians y t they had their méetings both day and night in this vse they cōfirmed their doctrine which Paule teacheth the Colossians Let no man condemne you in meat and drinke nor in respect of an holy day or of the newe Moone or of the Sabbothe dayes And no doubt to take away this popish superstitiō of dayes times it was gods good wil and pleasure then so to ordaine it And for a ful proofe that the Churches vsed some saturday some sunday it is well shewed by that hot contention that was raised by Victor Anicetus against y e gréeke church After y e Apostles time about the yeare of our Lord .115 vnder y e Emperor Traiane it appeareth that the Christians vsuall méeting was in the mornings as is shewed by Plinie in an epistle written to the Emperoure of the same matter After this .30 or .40 yeare Iustinus doeth recorde that in his time they vsed the sonday and any other day when there was baptizing of children After this it is declared by Origen that the Christians of his time did not méete only on sundayes and holidayes but on other dayes also And Sozomene séemeth to deny of the Romaine Church that they had any meetings on the Saboth day as all other Churches had Eusebius saith quotidie ferme ad percipiendam disciplinam christi constuunt almost euery day they came to hear the doctrine of Christ. Athanasius nameth expresly these dayes sabbatum diem dominicum secundum sabbati parasceuen quartum sabbati Now if it can not be proued that any one Church made a special obseruation of the sunday but that on other dayes also they vsed like seruice vnto god
exquisite crueltye against them and yet for all this shall we thinke that Peter vvas bishop I leaue here to speake of Peters ovvne epistles the last written a little before his death what time this persecution shoulde haue bene in the greatest rage yet Peter doeth not so muche as once mention any suche thing The former was writeÌ„ about the .12 yere of Claudius and by expresse words dated from Babilon which thing bicause it is a most euideÌ„t token that Peter was theÌ„ no bishop of Rome Therfore they make this glose vpon it From Babylon that is from Rome and vvhat a miserable shift is this in defence of Peters bishoprike to confesse Rome to be Babylon But Rome as it is it shal be Babylon and their religion as it is it shall be the purple vvhore and the Pope as he is he shall be Antichrist rather than they vvill lose this succession of Peter And heere to make the fable perfect they shut it vp vvith tvvo especiall lies The one that Paule and Peter bothe died in one day The other that Christ met Peter flying avvay and bad him goe back and suffer death As touching the first vve reade of Paule vvhen he vvas conuerted he vvas a yong man and vvhen he vvent to Ierusalem to see Peter Athanasius saith he vvent for reuerence â–ª that he bare to Peters age So it seemeth Peter vvas gray headed vvheÌ„ Paule vvas but young About .25 yeres after Paule vvryteth to Philemon Though I be as I am euen Paule an olde man Then vvhat vvas Peter at these yeares Yet Paule liueth after this ten yeare and then wryteth of hym selfe that the tyme of his resolution is at hande Paule had novv finished euen his naturall course a very probable coniecture that he outliued Peter But this other vntruthe that vve speake of is aboue all coniecture shamelesse and vnreasonable They saye that Peter the night before he shoulde suffer fledde avvay and as he vvas going Christ met him vvhome vvhen he had seene Peter sayd vnto him Domine quò vadis Maister vvhether goest thou Then christ made aunswere Romam iterum crucifigi to Rome that I may be crucified againe Then Peter perceiued that Christ spake of him and so he returned and vvas crucified as if Peter him selfe had neuer taught vs that the heauens must containe and kepe Christ vntill the time that all things be restored vvhiche shall not be accomplished vntill the last day and thus endeth the fable of Peters bishoprike in Rome Novv good christian Reader thou consider of it as the truthe shall moue thee and vvay the Pope and Papistry vvhat it is Searche the scriptures saith â–ª our sauior Christ. For they doe beare vvitnesse of me But searche the scriptures vvhile thou vvilt thou canst not finde one line for the Popes supremacie no title for proofe of Peters bishoprike in Rome A certaine argument the Pope is not of Christ. And as this head and vvell spring of all this iniquitie I meane the Pope him selfe hath no vvarrant in the vvorde of God so his religion that it may be like him selfe is altogether contrary and beside the vvorde of God What should I here recite all particulares Searche the scriptures thou shalt not finde neither Masse nor Mattens Diriges Trentals Dispensations Iubileis Indulgences Pardones Pâ—lgrimage Holy water Holy bread Crucifixe Rodes Banners Tapers Sensors Paxes Pixes Canopies Copes Corporase Vestments Albes Stoales Tunicles Saccaring Eleuation Altare Altareclothes Superaltaries Howseling Shriuing Aneling Dispeling Creping Halovving of Bels Halovving of Churches Halovving of Fountes Monethes mindes Lent Vigill Aduent Praying to saintes praying for the deade praying in a straunge tongue none other of the xxv Articles mencioned by maister Iuell And vvhat shoulde I speake of all that are almoste infinite Reade their Portuise and reade the Bible thou shalt finde no leafe of agreement And this none can denye vvho so euer is most frovvardly bent What resteth then if vve loue God and his holy vvorde but that vve consider our vvayes and see vvhether vve vvalke as he hathe taught vs. There is no heauen but his dvvelling place no vvalking vnto it but by his coÌ„maundements and his commandementes no vvhere to be founde but in the Scriptures vvhich he hath left vs. Next vnto Gods glory we haue nothing so precious as the sauegarde of our owne soules And where shall we finde the saluation of our soules but in the vvorde of God God graunt vnto thee his holy spirite that thou mayest heare his worde and keepe the same to the obedience of his will and the saluation of thine owne soule Amen Farewell from Christes colledge in Cambridge the .iiij. of April Anno Domini 1568. Thine in the Lorde Edward Dering ¶ An Aunswere to M. Hardings Epistle wrytten vnto Mayster Iuel Hardyng ¶ Although M. Iuell when you proclaimed your chalenge at the beginning you promised to yelde and subscribe if any man alyue were able to bryng anye one sentence out of any old Doctour Councell Scripture or exaÌ„ple of primitiue Church for proofe of any one of all your articles yet verily I am perswaded no wyse man beleued what soeuer or how much so euer were brought that you would stand vnto your promise c. So then the largenesse of your promise to others maketh shewe of your confidence and to your selfe the regarde of it encreaseth stubbernesse Dering WHen king Alaxander had proclaimed war against Darius a certaine boasting PersiaÌ„ in stéede of more manhood vsed muche vnreuerent talke agaynst them of Macedonia and especially against Alexander hymselfe But Memnon hys Captayne perceiuing thys soldiours valiantnesse to be all in his railing tongue at the last strake hym wyth hys speare and sayde Ego te alo vt pugnes non vt maledicas I retayne thée to fight and not to speake euyll The very lyke of thys is happined among vs and thys pratyng Soldiour doth play hys part agayne The Byshop of Sarisburie our Alexander in Christian warre and godly courage hath made proclamacion against the Pope that proude Prince Darius Kyng of Babilon Now least there should want a Soldiour to speake euyll of Alexander Maister Harding hath taken vpon hym that part and spareth no péece of hys cunning by all meanes possible to debase thys good enterprise God if it be hys wyll once make hym know hym selfe or if he shall continue in hys euyll speakyng sende ouer hym some Memnon that may chasten hys intemperate tongue In thys beginning of hys Epistle there is lyttle woorthy aunswering He pronounceth boldly of M. Iuels entent yet no man knoweth the things of a man saue the spirite of man which is within hym Hys writing is like a Crowe in Peacocks feathers or an ylfauored Ape in a purple garment The handlyng of hys matter is very beautifull and the substance is nothing woorth And yet in hys maner of resoning bicause M. Iuell wyll not subscribe he concludeth that he is both
Apostle commeth iudgement Here is no colour of shift least except they wil say after death that is when the generall daie of iudgement shall bée And if this might serue then had they somewhat to saye But S. Iohn hath preuented such wrestinge of scriptures After death as he teacheth is immediatly as soone as we be with God for this he writeth Blessed ar the deade which dye in the Lorde from henceforth saith the spirit they rest from their labour No labour abideth any more for them after death immediatlye they are receiued into ioy and their workes doe follow them And this present ioy of the godlye is likewyse specified where the same Apostle writeth that an hundred fourty and foure thousand did stande with the lambe in y e mount Sion meaning the elect which wer w t Christ in his kingdome An hundreth such other places there are in the scripture which testifie of our estate after death and do quite ouerthrowe the Popes purgatory Nowe for the better contentation of the Reader it were worth the labour to answere to al those places of the scripture in which they make so many blinde gesses at purgatory The places are Math. 5.26 c. 12.32 c. 18 34. Luc. 12.59.16.19 l. Co. 3.15 Phil. 2.10 Apo. 5.15 But read these places who list in the feare of God and true desire of knowledge he can by no imaginations haue one gesse at purgatory and yet for the establishing of such a doctrine it had bene requisite they could haue shewed euen the name for the interpretation of other men be they neuer so olde We may saye with the Apostle Euery man aboundeth in his own vnderstanding but no man knoweth the thinges that are Gods saue God alone and his woorde if we will not be deceiued must be our onelye guider But they haue one place 2. Mach. 12.44 in plaine words that it is good to pray for the dead if that booke be of able autority We rede likewise of one Razias an Elder of Ierusalem which first ran vpon his own sworde and when he missed of his stroke he ranne to the top of the wall and threwe him selfe downe among the multitude and yet hauing life in him went to the top of an highe rocke and pulled out his owne bowels and threwe them among the enimies and for this doing he is commended So by the authoritye of the same booke a man maye kill himselfe which Maister Harding him selfe I trowe will not constantly affirme yet this being scripture it might not be doubted Againe the same author saith If I haue done well and as the story requireth it is the thing that I desired But if I haue spoken slenderly and basely it is that I coulde These Iffes and Andes are not of that spirit which hath written the scriptures Thus doubting of his own ability besemeth not the holy ghost Beside this the gréeke in the same place is so corrupt that scarce any sense coulde be made of it And Ioseph ben Gorion out of whom that story semeth to be gathered in the same place doth quite leaue out this praying for the dead But it maye be that in those dayes some ignoraunt Iewes vpon an vnwyse deuotion did thinke it good to praye for the deade and likewise to praye againe vnto them that they would helpe vs. Which if it were so by such meanes this place might come into the Machab. And that some did thinke thus thoughe they were alwayes otherwyse instructed it appereth by one manifest place which is read in Philo Iudeus where he writeth the death of Debora who made a godly exhortatiō to hir people before she dyed For afterward they should finde no repentaunce There some made aunswere vnto hir Ecce nunc mater moreris ora itaque pro nobis post recessum tuum erit anima tua memor nostri in sempiternum Praye for vs after thy departure and let thy soule be mindefull of vs for euer To whom Debora maketh aunswere Adhuc viuens homo potest orare et pro se pro filijs suis post finē autem non poterit exorare nec memor esse alicuius yet while a man is liuing he may pray for him selfe and for his children but whan he is deade he can neyther intreate nor be mindeful of any And it followeth your similitude then shal be like the starres of heauen which are now manifest in you Hereby we sée what iudgement the common people mighte haue in such matters And yet howe the godly did otherwise instruct them reade this place thou shalt finde it so plaine that no wrangling may shift it of but nedes we must confesse that it teacheth vs that we ought neither to praye vnto saintes to help vs neyther yet agayne can we helpe them when they be gone Wherby it appeareth what manner of archer Maister Harding hath ben that could not shoote at so plaine a marke But he did shoote at his own dreames and so he lighted on Purgatorie Yet there follow a great many of markes at the which M. Hardyng could neuer shoote home The first is that the masse and our Communion is one wyth that marke sayth he I was neuer acquaynted Hys loose without doubt is very ill or he shooteth to low a compasse or else he draweth not close For M. Stapleton that shooteth with the same bow and arrowes hitteth this marke euen at the first The Masse and the Communion saith he duelye ministred is all one and it is folly to thinke any contradiction betwéene the Communion and the Masse Thus it appeareth M. Harding is a verye wrangler that wyll not shoote at that marke which his owne fellowes finde An other marke that M. Harding could neuer shoote at is this that Eucharistia doth signifie not the Sacrament but common bread I maruail he could neuer shoote at this marke For sith he began first that babling aunswere to M. Iuels learned Challenge he hath alwaye bene hobbing among those marks wher this is one though he neuer shot at the selfe same yet hath he seldome shot but at such like For it is a marke of slaundering and a marke of lying at whych marke as well in this Reioynder as other where M. Harding most commonly doth shoote very nere I neuer said saith he that Eucharistia was common breade but the sacrament This marke I could neuer sée In déede no maruail for who can well sée the thing that is not But you father this saying vpon Maister Iuell which reporte is all togither vntrue and slaunderous and in shootinge at this marke you drawe maruailous cleane and haue good deliuery be it prickes or rouers you haue measured the ground so oft that you knowe what to shoote But I pray you M. Harding where sayth M. Iuell thus What be his woordes Wher are they to be foūd Thinke you notwithstanding your oft vntrue demeanour that you can discredite your aduersary vpon your bare word The
Augustine speaketh not of Saint Mathew the .2 nor of Saint Andrew the .3 nor of Abdias his Maximilla the .4 nor of Abdias the .5 nor Gelasius speaketh of Abdias the .6 nor they two speak of Abdias Thus the whole being ioyned is but one true proposition yet out of it after his maner of cutting maister Harding hath carued .6 lies And thus much of lying Abdias The B. of Saris. Martial was so defaced in many places that it could not be reade Harding The .35 vntruth It could be read else hovv coulde it be printed Dering By gesse Why should not the printer haue as much liberty in printing this little olde booke as maister Harding vseth for proufe of his whole religion The Printer himselfe sayth prae nimia vetustate vix legi potuerunt for estreame age they could scarce be read Nowe where as maister Harding doth aske how then could they be printed I aske of him how Abdias was printed For of him his sorbonist Doctor wryteth he could neyther be read nor vnderstand An other might much better haue moued this doubt then maister Harding He is not now to learne what gesses may doe But howe soeuer he was printed sure this vntruth was not worth noting The B. of Saris. It is iudged by Iohn Colet and other graue men that Dionysius can not be that Areopagita Saint Paules disciple which is mencioned in the Actes Harding The .36 vntruth It is not iudged so by Iohn Colet The .37 vntruth They are no graue men that so iudge Dering These vntruthes can not be good that are made so fast nor yet so many as the maker would haue them when one is told so many tymes If this were vntrue that maister Iuell writeth yet were it not two vntruthes but one But bicause there is no remedie we will take them euen as they fall out As touching the former of these two it néedeth no aunswere Maister Harding doth not denie it but that Iohn Colet hath both spoken it and preached it then what skilleth it whether it be written his preaching is a witnes of his opinion though maister Harding say nay For this other vntruth that such other as deny this Dionysius to be the true Areopagita are no graue men he is sure no graue man that hath noted it I may aunswere this with the wordes of Saint Paule horum laus non ex hominibus sed ex deo these mens prayses are not of men but of God Maister Harding should not for his modesty sake haue noted it for an vntruth to call the godly fathers of our age graue men His belligods Popes Cardnals Friers Monkes Priestes others of that kenâ—ll haue not so much laboured in searching out the truth in fiue hundred yeares as these other haue done in fiftie But God hath giuen the increase his name be praysed for euer As touching this Dionysius whether we haue his workes or no it is a thing soone iudged How vnlike is it that the conuersion of Dionysius should be mencioned by Saint Luke in the actes of the Apostles yet he him selfe would not mencion it once in al his workes or if this might be yet what may we thinke of that that in all his booke he doth neuer so much as once name Paule May it yet be doubted whether he be that Dionysius which Paule conuerted Besides this S. Ierom making purposely a rehearsall of all ecclesiasticall wryters speaketh not one worde of this Dionysius Other auncient fathers doe neuer alleage him his owne bookes are so strauÌ„ge fansies of many secrete misteries that sure it is he is not the true Areopagita The. B. of Saris. Saint Iames Liturgie hath an especiall prayer for them that liue in Monasteries and yet it was â—erie rare to haue Monasteries built in all Saint Iames time Harding The .38 vntruth There is no mention of such Monasteries as we commonly meane when we speake of Monasteries Dering As be for Monasteries as Monasteries are to speake of the things themselues as they are in déede so to say of Monasteries as they be considered in this meaning of Monasteries so Monasteries and so forth a man should go farre that shoulde follow Maister Hardings wrangling The B. of Saris. Chrysostomes Liturgie prayeth for Pope Nicolas by these wordes Nicolai sanctiss vniuersalis Papae longa sint teÌ„pora We pray God sende Nicolas that most holy and vniuersall Pope a long time to liue But Pope Nicolas the first of that name was the seconde Pope after dame Ione the woman Pope Harding The .39 vntruth He prayth not for Pope Nicolas of Rome The .40 vntr There was no such woman pope Dering Nowe Maister Harding after he hath giuen so many offers and maketh neuer a wound he directeth his engines quite contrarie and assayeth if that he can giue the Pope a blowe Pope Nicolas sayth Chrysostome that most sacred and vniuersall Pope That is no good proufe sayth Maister Harding that he meaneth the bishop of Rome Here is a full subscription to the .4 article The authorities alleaged for the Popes supremacie are quite ouerthrowne to be called vniuersall bishop is no proufe of his supremacie Had Maister Harding wel considered it this vntruth had bene quoted some other where but doubting that this be not aunswere good ynough he letteth it go and graunting it to be sayde of Pope Nicolas therevpon he asketh this question If Chrysostome might not pray for Pope Nicolas how is the death of Moyses described in the bookes of the lawe There is no man sayth he so hardie to denie that Moyses wrote these bookes Be not afrayd good reader of these big words nor of M â–ª Har. daring All this is soone aunswered Either Eleazar or Iosue wroâ—e the .34 Chap. of Deuter. And they might well write of Moyses his death Or if Moyses wrote it he knew it by reuelation For so he himselfe wryteth The lorde hath saide vnto mée thou shalt not go ouer this Iordane Sure of a doctor of diuinitie this was a very simple question If he can shewe any such reuelation that Chrysostome haâ— of Pope Nicolas then let this be Chrysostomes Masse The .40 vntruth is concerning pope Ione who neuer did the sea of Rome more dishonesty then she hath stoode maister Harding in good stéed For both she helpeth out his Reioinder with vntruthes and maketh a great péece of his confutation of the Apologie But saith maister Harding there was no such woman Pope What skilleth it to this present matter whether there were such a Pope or no. A filthie Strumpet is good ynough for such a whoorish kingdome If there were such a one Pope Nicolas was seconde after hir Whether there were or no my profes are néedelesse my lord of Sarisburie hath resolued vs in that behalfe The B. of Saris. Now it were much for me to say that Chrysostome prayed for men by name 700. yeares before they were borne Harding The .41 vntruth I say
them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a kingly priesthoode And 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a holy priesthoode And it is sayde in the Apocal. Christ hath made vs 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 kings and priests vnto God euen vnto his father As for Hippolytus worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 let not maister Harding thinke that Maister Iuell taketh Saint Peter to attribute that name vnto the lay people Let the word go vnto Hippolytus from whom it came it is neyther in Saint Peter nor in the whole Testament It is attributed neyther to the priestes nor to the Bishops This is maister Iuels saying The priest and the lay man concerning the name priest are one and no difference of name giuen to eyther 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in their proper significations that is priestes I gladly leaue to maister Harding and his felowes It is giuen to no mortall men in the newe testament But to Iupiters priest Acto 14. Onely our Sauiour Christ is our high priest and that for euer after the order of Melchisedech and without blasphemie against him the name can bée no more giuen vnto man for as much as euery priest is appointed to offer sacrifice But he alone hath made that one sacrifice whereby we are clensed for euer And this Paule gathered well of the offering that Abraham made vnto Melchisedech writing that in Abraham Leui himselfe was giuen vp for tythe being then in his fathers loynes when that offering was made So that in the appointed time when Christ should be reueled an euerlasting priest after the order of Melchisedech the Leuiticall priesthoode shoulde be then ended and no perticular men should be seperated any more to serue in our tabernacle that is to be the preachers of Christes gospell and dispensers of his misteries but euery one is like accepted before God all spirituall priestes before him And as the publike minister shall aunswere for the sinnes of the people if he do not tell them Gods threatnings against all iniquitie so the father shall answere for the sonne the maister for the man the husbande for the wyfe and one christian man for another if we beare not the name of our father written in our forehead and openly in all places reforme one anothers offences and suche as are vnder our rule if wée doe not bring them vp in the feare of the Lorde God for his mercie sake giue vs hys grace that we may consider our calling which no doubt wée would doe if we were well instructed and deliuered from M. Hardings filthie priesthood which beareth vs in hand y t with Pardons and Indulgences and Massing abhominations they could doe away our sinnes And further who knoweth not that the oblations ceremonies sacrifices feastes priesthoode and all other rites and customes of the olde law were figures and are verefied in Christ. So Paule calleth Christ our Passeouer newnesse and sinceritie of life our vnleauened bread our bodies our temple our wickednesse our leauen the fruite of our lips our offering our selues our sacrifice So Saint Peter calleth Christ our corner stone his children the liuing stones their profession the holy temple and their obedience a kingly priesthoode The B. of Saris. Some of them haue saide the people are doggs and swine Harding The .53 vntruth I say not so Dering Maister Harding calleth them swine in plaine wordes he sayth further they are vnreuerent of an impure life Againe he sayth they are curious rashe vnreuerent contemptuous in all holy things Now to ioyne all these that the people are vnreuerent impure curious rashe contemptuous swine it is as much I thinke as if he called them doggs and swine How be it whether tearmes soeuer he vsed they are vnreuerent impure rashe contemptuous and swinish sayings and if he had bene ashamed of them he would not for so slender an vntruth haue called those wordes againe to memorie But the common saying is past shame and past grace The B. of Saris. The .7 deuis Yet now must their negligence be the rule of Christs religion Harding The .54 vntruth I say not so Dering Looke well on maister Iuels wordes thou shalt sée maister Harding is not named Againe consider this maner of speaking thou shalt sée this vntruth hath no grouÌ„d but ignorance Maister Harding doth confesse that his priuate Masse were not good in case the people were more diligent to receyue but considering their vndeuocion it is not méete that the dayly sacrifice should cease This maister Iuell reporteth as a thing very absurd that the negligence of the people shoulde be the rule of Christes religion And what is here vntrue who is so ignorant that knoweth not to make any such vain saying by repetition the more contemtuous that it is vsuall to chaunge the wordes Well knew M. Harding that the learned here would soone espie his doing but he accounteth it a small matter to deceiue those whom he taketh as vnreuerent swine c. The B. of Saris. But now the priest may say two three or mo Masses in a day yea although he haue none to receyue with him Harding The .55 vntruth Priestes say not many Masses in one day Dering Surely good reader lies are good cheape soone made where this is one The Decretals were wont to be a sufficient warrant for the vsage in the Popes ministerie Wil now maister Harding be so sawcy to controll the Pope Doth he not know that this saith Pope Gregorie excepto die natiuitatis causa necessitatis sufficit sacerdoti semel in die celebrare except on Christmasse day and the cause of necessitie it is sufficient to say one Masse a day Here we sée some dayes mo Masses than one were occupied and sure though one Masse be one to many Yet considering that thrée do signifie the thrée tymes before the lawe vnder the lawe and the tyme of grace where Masses go for good me thinketh thrée euery day would do wel And again bicause the Pope saith y t if néede be we may say mo Masses in one day and the glâ—se doth enterpret néede to be eyther for honestie sake or for profit sure such Masses as be eyther honest or profitable should euer for charitie sake be thrise iterate Yet I confesse that Pope Alexander and this gloser do not well agrée in profite For he sayth qui vero pro pecunia presumunt vno die facere plures Missas non estimo euadere damnationem but he that for mony shall presume in one day to make many Masses I thinke he can not escape damnation And yet notwithstanding this Popes censure the gloser will not relent but without addicion of necessitie he sayth flatly They may say one Masse for the dead an other for the day Mary for cause of controuersie in this matter Pope Gregorie makeâ— this prouiso So he poure no wine on his fingars after he hath receyued at the first Masse least in licking
go I think to no mortall man to be more strengthned The B. of Saris. It pleaseth M. Hard. to alledge the one end and conceale the other Harding The .76 vntruthe The .10 diuis I conceale not the other Dering If M. Harding doe alleage bothe these ends of the Sacraments that is To ioyne vs vnto God to ioyne vs one with an other then let this be vntrue if he do not then for my pore skil me thinketh he concealeth it The B. of Saris. M. Harding saith the Communion signifieth not the Communicating of many together Harding The .77 vntruthe I say not so Dering Héere M. Harding and M. Stapleton do agrée so iumpe in one vntruthe that it appeareth euidently their religion is either very vniforme or at least they haue bene both instructed in one schole Thus saith M. Harding The Cōmunion is not so called bicause many or as M. Iuel teacheth the whole congregatiō receiued together in one place These words M. Iuel reporteth thus He saith the Cōmunion is not so called of the Communicating of many together This is vntrue saith M. Har. I say not so this is vntruth saith M. Sta. he saith not so I require héere of thée good Christian Reader to viewe the woords well and finde out any fault if thou canst Surely I thinke thou canst finde none like as sure it is M. Iuel did thinke of none But these two pair of Egles eyes what haue they espied Forsothe wher M. Harding saith it is not called the Communion of Communicating togither in one place M. Iuel thus reporteth it it is not called the Communion of Communicating togither and leaueth quite out in one place which maketh all the matter this distinction of Communicating together and Communicating together in one place bicause it is somewhat straunge these men should haue done well to haue proued it by some Doctor Sure M. Harding if he may goe for a Doctor he teacheth vs plainely in an other place that to Communicate together is to Communicate in one place For thus he writeth but that they should Communicate together that is to say in one place that we deny By this Doctor it appeareth that together and in one place is all one and then this can be no vntruth The B. of Saris. How be it in plaine speche it is not the receiuing of the Sacrament that worketh our ioyning with God Harding The .78 vntruthe The worthy receiuing worketh this effect Dering Doth it so Are we not ioyned to God before we eate the Sacrament S. Paule saith Elegit nos in ipso He hath chosen vs in Christ before the foundations of the worlde were laid muche more are we his before we receiue the sacrament Concerning sacraments the same Apostle sayth of Abraham Signum accepit circumcisionis c. After he receiued the signe of Circumcision as the seale of the righteousnesse of y e faith which he had when he was vncircumcised And shall we be taught now that they be no more seales and witnesses but causes of our iustification God kéepe vs from suche spiders that gather poison of so swéete floures And that thou maist take the more héede of this mannes doctrine I must first tell thee that for proofe of it he bringeth not one worde of Scripture but pretendeth the aucthority of Chrysostome and Cyril I would answere the aucthoritie for suche Doctors saue that the labor were long and not necessary For I will declare out of the Scripture that the doctrine is hereticall and thereby thou shalt be satisfied and maist further imagine that these holy Fathers names are too muche abused In this vntruthe of M. Hardings he teacheth two points of Doctrine the one that by and thorow the worthy receiuing of the Sacrament we be ioyned vnto God the other that the Sacraments are not only seales and pledges but also they containe grace Now let vs sée how these two Articles agrée with the worde of God And first whither the receiuing of the Sacrament do ioyne vs vnto God and as M Harding saith putteth also into vs life immortall Our Sauior Christ in the Gospell after S. Iohn doth often tel his Disciples how they are made one with God yet in that holy Gospel as in all other scriptures there is not one worde that telleth vs we be made one with him by receiuing the Sacrament But contrarily by plaine words we be taught what vertue this Sacrament hath that it is onely a signe of that grace which we haue receiued as shall appeare héereafter In the sixthe chapter of Iohn where Christ reproueth the fleshly hearers of his worde and calleth them to a true beliefe in him the Iewes make this answere What signe shewest thou then that we may sée it Our Fathers did eat Manna c. Héere is first shewed what the Iewes thought of Manna not that by it they were ioyned to God or receiued grace but that it was a signe a token and a pledge of their frée election how they were a peculiar people vnto God This Manna being a figure of this Sacrament of the body and bloud of Christ now lest vnto the Churche Christ maketh this aunswere I am the bread of life he that commeth to me shall not hunger and he that beleueth in me shall not thirst for euer By this we learne that to beleue in Christ is to haue euerlasting life and as Manna was a signe to the Israelites so the Communion of the body and blood of Christ is a signe to vs that this promisse shall be made sure It is written in the Prophet and all thy children shall be taught of the Lord of this saying our sauior Christ teacheth vs how we be ioyned vnto him and sayth No man can come to me except the father which sent me draw him And to this ende it is written by the Prophet Ieremie After those dayes sayeth the Lord I will put my law in their inward parts and write it in their hearts and I will be their God and they shalbe my people Of this we learne that if we come vnto Christ the Father must draw vs if we be his people he must be our inward teacher if we be vnited vnto him he must first come and dwell in our hearts whereby it is plaine that we must be first engrafted in Christ before we can worthely receiue his holy Sacramentes Furthermore it foloweth in S. Iohn he that eateth my fleshe and drinketh my bloud dwelleth in me and I in him Therefore we must dwell in him and he in vs or we can not eate his body and drink his bloud And the wicked which dwel not in him can not receiue him Again where our Sauior Christ doeth teache very largely how we be ioyned vnto him and become one with him euen as his Father and he is one he sheweth that this societie doeth come vpon vs of his Fathers frée mercy apprehended by Faithe of his woorde And for
iustifie them or were not silence the best aunswere to so great folies Let the Reader iudge The B. of Saris. If no bodie receiued then is it not true that some receiued Harding The .196 vntruth Chrisostome saith not that some receiued Dering If the last vntruthe were not worth the noting then what store hath he that is faine to number it twice Yet so it is this purposed number hath driuen M. Harding to such inconuenience The former vntruthe was Chrisostome said not some receiued with the priest this is he saith not some receiue if he would make the third that some receiue not with it had euen as good reason as either of these But let these vntruthes alone they cannot doe much harme Onely I must admonish thée that after this long ado with Maister Iuel Maister Harding for his exercise will fights little with him selfe Here he saith that Chrisostome saith not that some receiue yet out of this same place of Chrisostome alleaging these wordes Cum timore dei et fide et dilectione accedite he doeth english them thus come you vp to receiue with the feare of God c. These cōtrary sayings without one vntruth cannot be reconciled If there he wel translated it come vp to receiue then this is no vntruth If this be vntrue then that was a false translation One of these can not be denied The B. of Saris. He saith the people in the Cities were daylie taught by sermons Harding The .197 vntruthe I say not so let my booke be iudge Dering Maister Harding by like doth say and vnsay and careth not what he say These are his verie wordes Now if Chrisostome had cause to complaine of the peoples slacknesse in that great and populous citie of Antioche where the scriptures were daily expounded and preached c. And here I say as Maister Harding saith let his booke be iudge And why then is this vntruth scored vp with other Would he haue vs think that this preaching were onely in Antioche and no where else This might well be if papistrie hadde ben then in vre and preaching not regarded But to think it of that world in which good religion florished and Gods word was plentifull it is an vncharitable gessing Thus much I speake graunting Maister Hardings wordes that in Antioche the people were daily taught And then if it were so the same vse had ben likewise kept in other cities so Maister Hardings owne wordes going for true this can be no vntruth but how true those wordes are Maister Iuel doeth sufficiently proue reade his Replie he doeth alleage Chrysostomes owne wordes to proue that in Antioche they had sermons but once a wéeke and therevpon he saith further thus The B. of Saris. I note this not for that I mislike of daily preaching but for that vntruth so boldelie presumed should not passe vntouched Harding The .198 vntruth It is no vntruth Dering I am sorie to trouble the reader with aunswering to so vaine vntruthes but so it is if nothing should be said they would be thought of some force Maister Harding vseth this reason to proue his priuate Masse In Antiochie there was but a verie few to communicate sometime Therfore in the countrey belike there was priuate Masse Of this argument Maister Iuel saith thus to aduaunce the citie to abase the countrey he saith in cities they had dayly sermons but this is vntrue For in Antioche they had not so Now rise M. Hardings two vntruthes 1. I say not they were taught so in cities 2. They were taught so in Antioche Who could haue scraped out these vntruthes but he Or what force is there in them For this second vntruth where he still affirmeth they had dayly preaching in Antioche that is a very false lie and yet how impudently doth be persist in it The B. of Saris. Yet saith Maister Harding in small countrey churches either the Priest let cease the dayly sacrifice or else he receiued alone Harding The .199 vntruth I say not so This is altogether falsified Dering I pray God Maister Harding be not altogether without grace He so vnreuerently speaketh euill of authoritie so boldely denieth his owne sayings that his cause is much to be feared Marke here Maister Iuels wordes I will lay M. Hardings wordes with them then iudge whether here be any vntruth Thus he writeth of such countrey churches it must be sayd that either the sacrifice ceased c. Or that the memorie of our Lords death was oftentimes celebrated of the Priestes in the daily oblation without tarying for others to communicate with them Marke now how Maister Iuel chaungeth these wordes either the daily sacrifice ceased saith Maister Harding either the priest let cease the daily sacrifice saith Maister Iuell What is here falsified If it dyd cease the Priest ceased it For I trow the lay man might not say Masse if he would The other péece of Maister Hardings saying is this or else the memorie of our Lords death was often times celebrated of the priestes in the daily oblation without tarying for other to communicate with them These many words bicause oftedious writing Maister Iuell reporteth this or the priest receiued alone Now iudge of this place which Maister Harding saith is altogether falsified and praye that Maister Harding may once haue eies to sée The .200 vntruth Here Maister Harding noteth an vntruth in the margin that is not in the text When he telleth vs what it is we will better examine it The B. of Saris. The Masse that is so glorious can neither be founde in churches nor chappels Harding It is found both in churches and chappels Dering It is not yet found neither in church nor chappell within .600 yeares of Christ. The B. of Saris. Thus saith Chrysostome if thou stand by and not receiue thou art malapert thou art shamelesse thou art impudēt 2. thine eies be vnworthie the sight herof vnworthie be thine eares 3. O thou wilt say I am vnworthie to be partaker of the holie mysteries then art thou vnworthie to be partaker of the praiers 4. Thou maist no more stay here than an heathen that ueuer was christened Harding The .202 vntruthe Chysostome doeth not say these vvordes The .203 vntruthe Chrysostome saith not then an heathen vnchristened Dering Sure good Reader the numbring of these vntruthes is verie straunge here is one Chrysostome saith not these wordes an other he saith not then an heathen c. I would faine know here in the first vntruth what Maister Harding meaneth by these words If he meane the whole sentence why maketh he an other truth If he meane all the sentence going before this latter vntruth why doeth he not make of it thrée seuerall vntruthes For it is distinguished into thrée seuerall sentences or if he think but one of those sentences is false why doeth he not tell vs which it is Certaine it is Maister Harding did know that these former partes of this allegation were all true
could not see that in Chrysostome vvhich Chrysostome hath not Dering What M. Harding séeth only M. Harding knoweth But what a fonde vntruthe héere is quoted that I trow euery mā may witnesse Thus saith M. Iuel M. Harding séeth this is but a slender proofe master Harding saith he can not sée it in Chrysostome In déede that is true who saith it is in Chrysostome He was too well learned to make such lose argumēts I would faine heare of some of M. Hardings friends how he could excuse this vntruthe and what it meaneth The B. of Saris. M. Harding hath deuised a way how two priests saying their Masses in diuers countreis may yet Communicate together in breaking bread Harding The .214 vntruthe I doe not say they can communicate in breaking bread Dering This vntruthe was numbred once before Reade the .107 vntruthe There are M. Hardings plaine woords What he meaneth héere againe to recken this vntruthe saue onely for numbers sake no man I trow knoweth And yet how fondly and with what a blinde distinction he dothe it it shall not be a misse to tell thée He saith héere they doe not breake bread together But saith he they participate of one bread and communicate together be the distaunce betwéene them neuer so great This plain saying he hath in his Reioinder intermingled with a few other woords Read the place Now if maister Harding do thus vnderstand M. Iuel as if he ment that two priestes many miles a sunder might breake the same loafe that imagination is too grose and no wise man wil alow it If he meane any spirituall breaking then his owne words alowe the saying for good then this vntruthe proueth nothing against M. Iuel but reproueth M. Harding either of foly or else of falshoode The B. of Saris. Lay people wemen sicke folkes and boyes are brought in to proue his Masse Harding The .215 vntruthe They are not brought to proue the Masse Dering Maister Harding is very nigh at an ende his number is not yet ful Therfore being enforced to take vntruthes as he may he is lighted on suche a place as he could not light on a worse This vntruthe is reckened .v. times before the .87.101.126.128.129 and now the .215 It had bene requisite to haue ben better that should serue so many turnes The B. of Saris. Heere be brought in a company of petie Doctors all of doubtfull credite Harding The .216 vntruthe They be not of doubtfull credite Dering Now we be at the bottome of these vntruths M. Harding is faine to draw out dregges and all There was inough said before of Amphilochius and his fellowes and some of them M. Harding had quite turned and that he would neither defend them nor condemne them But now necessity doth make him breake his promise rather than he shold lose an vntruth they must be all of good credite againe They that list let them so accompt them The B. of Saris. This matter is made good by visions dreames and fables Harding The .217 vntruthe I proue it not by dreames Dering Héere saith M. Harding this tale of Amphilochius is neither dreame nor fable but it appeared vnto him good aucthoritie Yet he saith before that whether it be a vaine fable or a true story he wil not determine wel let this contrarietie goe Whether it be a fable or no iudge thou Here further as touching maister Hardings Philosophy in so exacte defining of dreames and visions bicause he taketh vpon him to control a better Philosopher than him self And in this word dreame wil haue the force of his vntruthe saying it was a vision and no dreame which S. Basil saw that distinction is more curious than learned for the two Gréeke woords 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is a dreame and a vision doe bothe signifie those things which be true vnlesse he wil say that a dreame dothe signifie more largely then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or somnium and yet if it doe a vision must néedes be a dreame though euery dreame be not a vision so this vntruthe by no meanes can be iustified The B. of Saris. He hath made searche for his Masse at Alexandria in Aegipt at Antioche in Syria at Caesarea in Cappadocia a thousande miles beyonde Chrystendome Harding The .218 vntruthe These cities are not a thousande miles beyond Christendome Dering This vntruthe was not worthe twise numbring Read the 183. vntruthe The B. of Saris. Bicause he had no hope to spede in townes he hathe sought out little churches in the countrey Harding The .219 vntruthe I haue proued that the Masse was celebrated in townes Dering This vntruthe is soone gathered but when M. Harding dothe proue it not only maister Iuel but all other that impugne their superstitious vanities will soone subscribe In the meane season he must not builde vp his vntruthes with suche sayings as we openly maintaine bothe in worde and wryting The B. of Saris. Likewise S. Paule willed one to waite for an other in the holy ministration Harding The .220 vntruthe These words are not ment of the ministration of the Sacrament Dering These words of S. Paule goe very nighe M. Hardings priuate Masse and therfore it behoueth him for his Masses sake to stande stiffely in it that they belong not vnto the ministration of the Lords supper For if they doe belong vnto it then no doubt M. Hardings Masse is a sinke of iniquitie that is so contrary vnto S. Paules woords Now for better discussing of this bicause in trying it this priuate Masse shall be better knowne let vs examine S. Paules woordes Thus he saithe Wherfore my brethren when ye come together to eate tary one for an other This saith M. Harding is to be vnderstand of certaine Churche feastes which they had called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and not of the Communion and as though this were not said with shame inoughe he saith in an other place that in that chapter S. Paule dothe not rebuke them for the manner of ministring this Sacrament but for their abusing of their church feasts Now for proofe of this interpretation he onely alleageth the bare names of Chrysostome and Theodoretus and this is al he can bring Read Reioinder fol. 306. Now let vs sée againe what on the other side may be said to proue that S. Paule meaneth of the ministration of the Sacrament And this we may sée bothe by the testimonie of all the old Doctors and most vndoubtedly by examination of the place it selfe Athanasius applieth all that place to the Communion in plaine woords Occumenius saith only the Lords supper is there spoken of and vpon this place inuicem expectate tary one for an other Thus he writeth Itaque Quamobrem Ne indigne corpus domini sanguinem participare probemini Therefore saith the Apostle Wherefore Least you should be proued to participate the Lordes body and bloud vnworthely By this Doctor he receiueth vnworthily that