be done in the beginning where the reader shall not be able so well to vnderstand what is sayde of me vnlesse he haue M. D. booke before hym The cause of which diuersitie rose of that that I first purposed to set downe his answer before my reply as he dyd the admonition before hys answer But afterward considering that hys booke being already in the handes of men it would be double charges to bye it agayne and especially weighing with my selfe that through the slownes of the prynt for want of helpe the reply by that meanes should come forth later then was conuenient for although he myght commodyously bryng in the admonition being short yet the same coulde not be done in his booke swellyng in that sort which it doth I say these thinges consydered I changed my mynde and haue therfore set downe the causes which moued me so to doe because I know that those if any be which haue determyned to contynue theyr foreiudged opynions agaynst the cause whatsoeuer be alledged wyll hereupon take occasion to surmyse that I haue left out hys answere to the end that it myght the lesse appeare wherein I haue passed ouer any weyght of hys reasons where as had it not bene for these causes which I haue before aledged my earnest desire was to haue set hys answere before my reply whereof I call the Lord to wytnesse whom I know to be a sharpe iudge agaynst those which shall abuse hys holy name to any vntruth ¶ An answeare to the whole Epistle to the Church WHat causes eyther pulled you forward or thrust you backward to wryte or not to wryte and how in thys dispute wyth your selfe in the end you were resolued to write in thys sort I leaue it vnto the iudgement of the Lord who only knoweth the secretes of the heart and will in his good time vnseale them But if there be any place of coniecture the hatred of contention whych you set downe as the first and principall cause that beat you backe from wryting might well haue ben put as the last and least or rather none at all For if peace had bene so precious vnto you as you pretend you woulde not haue brought so many hard wordes bitter reproches enemylike speaches as it were stickes and coales to double and treble the heat of contention If the sharpnes of the Admonition misliked you and you thinke they outreached in some vehemency of words how could you more effectually haue cōfuted that then to haue in a quiet and milde spirite set them in the way which in your opinion had left it now in words condenming it and approuing it in your dedes I wil not say that you do not so much mislike thys sharpness as you are sory that you are preuented and are not the first in it But this I may well say vnto you whych he sayd Quid verba audiam cum facta videam what should I heare words when I see the dedes In the fourth reason wherby you were discouraged to wryte if by backbiters and vnlearned tongs viperous kinde of men not able to iudge of controuersies caryed away wyth affections and blinde zeale into diuers sinister iudgements and erronious opinions you meane all those that thinke not as you do in these matters I answere for my selfe and for as many as I know of them that they are they which first desire so it be truely to heare and speak◠all good of you But if that be not through your perseuerance in the maintenaunce of the corruptions of this church which you should helpe to purge then the same are they that desire that both the euill which you haue done and that which you haue yet in your hart to doe may be knowen to the lesse discredite of the truth and sinceritie which you with such might and mayne doe striue agaynst Touching our vnlearned tongues we had rather a great deale they were vnlearned then they should be as theirs * which haue taught their tunges to speake falsly And how vnlearned so euer you would make the world beleue that we and our tunges be I hope through the goodnesse of God they shall be learned enough to defend the truthe agaynst all the learning that you shall be able to assault it with If those be the * generation of Christ which you call viperous kynde of men know you that you haue not opened your mouth against earth but you haue set it agaynst heauen for all indifferent iudgement it will easely perceiue that you are as far from the spirite of * Iohn Baptist as you are nere to hys maner of speche Which you vse whether it be affection or blind zeale that we follow and are driuen by it will then appeare when the reasons of both sides being layde out shall be wayed indifferently Whereas you say that your duetie towards God and the Queene her maiesty moued you to take thys laboure in hande it will fall out vppon the discourse that as you haue not serued the Lord God in thys enterprise and worke of youres so haue you done nothing lesse then any godly duetie which you owe vnto her Maiestie so that the best that can be thought of you herein is that wherein an euill matter you coulde yelde no duetie yet now you haue done that which you thought a duetie which iudgeinent we will so long keepe of you vntill you shall by oppugning of a knowen truth declare the contrary which we hope will not be What truth it is that we impugne and you defend let it in the name of God appeare by our seuerall proufes and answeares of both sides And as for the slaunderous surmises whereby in your third and last consideration you set the Papistes of the one side of vs and the Anabaptistes of the other and vs in the middest reaching out our handes as it were to them both first it ought not to be strange vnto vs miserable sinners seeing that the Lord hym selfe without all sinne was placed in the middest of two greuous malefactors as though he had bene worse then they both Then for answere of those slaunderous speaches I will referre the Reader to those places where these generall charges are geuen out in more particular manner An answere to that which is called a briefe examination of the reasons vsed in the Admonition to the Parliament IF the scriptures had bene applyed to the mayntenaunce of the abhomination of the masse and some other of the grossest of antichristianitie you could haue sayd no more nor vsed vehementer speache then thys that they are most vntollerably abused and vnlearnedly applyed And then where is charitie which couereth the multitude of faultes especially in brethren when you do not only not couer them but also take away their garmentes whereby they are couered I will not deny but that there be some few places quoted whych might haue bene spared but there are a great number which M. Doctor tosseth throweth away
oute any wythout good cause that then the Magistrates shoulde compell the churches to doe their duetye In deede the byshop of Rome gaue the election then into the Emperoure hys handes because of the lyghtnesse of the people as Platina maketh mention but that is not the matter for I do nothing else heere but shew that the elections of the ministers by the Church were vsed in the times of the Emperoures and by their consentes and seeing that Otho confessed it pertayned not vnto him it is to be doubted whether he tooke it at the Bishop his handes And if the Emperoures permitted the election of the byshop to that Citie where it made most for their suertie to haue one of their owne appoyntment as was Rome which with their byshoppes dyd often tymes put the good Emperoures to trouble it is to be thought that in other places both Cities townes they dyd not deny the elections of the ministers to the people Besides that certayne of those constitutions are not of Rome but of any citie whatsoeuer And these Emperoures were and lyued betweene 500. and odde yeares vntill the very poynt of a thousande yeares after Christ so that hyther to thys lyberty was not gone out of the Church albeit the Pope which brought in all tyranny and went about to take all libertie from the churches was now on horse backe had placed hym selfe in that Antichristian seate To the next section in the 45. THose that write the Centuries suspect thys Canon and doubt whether it be a bastarde or no considering the practise of the church But heere or euer you were aware you haue striken at your selfe For before you sayde that thys order of chusing the minister by voyces of the church was but in the Apostles tyme and duryng the time of persecution And the first time you can alledge thys libertie to be taken awaye was in the 334. yeare of our Lorde which was at the least 31. yeares after that Constantine the great began to raigne I say at the least because there be good authors that say that thys Councell of Laodicea was holden Anno. 338. after the death of Iouinian the Emperoure and so there is 35. yeares betweene the beginning of Constantines raigne and thys councel Now I thinke you will not say that the Church was vnder persecution in Cōstantines tyme And therfore you see you are greatly deceiued in your accoumpt And if it be as lawfull for vs to vse maister Caluins authoritie which both by example and wrytings hath alwayes defended our cause as it is for you to wryng him and his wordes to things which he neuer meant and the contrary wherof he continually practised then thys authoritie of youres is dashed For maister Caluin sayth where as it is sayd in that councel that the election should not be permitted to the people it meaneth nothing else but that they should make no election without hauing some ministers or men of iudgement to direct them in their election and to gather their voyces and prouyde that nothing be done tumultuously euen as Paule and Barnabas were cheefe in the election of the churches And euen the same order woulde we haue kepte in elections continually for auoyding of confusion for as we would haue the libertie of the Church preserued which Christ hath bought so dearely from all tyranny so do we agayne condemne and vtterly abhorre all barbarous confusion and disorder But if councelles be of so great authoritie to decide thys controuersy then the most famous councell of Nice will strike a great stroke with you which in an Epistle that it wryteth vnto the Church of Egipt as Theodoret maketh mention speaketh thus It is meete that you should haue power both to chuse any man and to geue their names which are worthy to be amongst the clergye and to doe all things absolutely according to the law and decrees of the churche And if it happen any to dye in the churche then those which were last taken are to be promoted to the honor of him that is dead with thys condition if they be worthy and the people chuse them and the bishop of the citie of Alexandria together geuing his consent and appoynting them An other of the famousest councelles called the councell of Constantinople which was gathered vnder Theodosius the great as it is witnessed by the * Tripartite storie in an Epistle which it wrote to Damasus the pope and Ambrose and others sayth thus We haue ordayned Nectarius the byshoppe of Constantinople with the whole consent of the counsell in the sight of the Emperour Theodosius beloued of God the whole Citie together decreeing the same Likewise he sayth that Flauian was appoynted by that synode byshop of Antioche the whole people appoynting him Likewise in the councell of Carthage where Augustine was holden about anno domini 400. in the first canon of the councell it is sayde when hee hath bene examyned in all these and founde fully instructed then let hym be ordayned Byshop by the common consent of the clarkes and the lay people and the Byshoppes of the prouince and especially eyther by the authoritie or presence of the metropolitane And in the Toletane councell as it appeareth in the 51. distinction it was thus ordayned Let not hym be counted a priest of the Churche for so they speake whome neyther the clergye nor people of that citie where he is a priest doth chuse nor the consent of the metropolitane other priests in that prouince hath sought after Moreouer concilium Cabilonense which was holden anno domini 650. in the tenth Canon hath thys If any Bishop after the death of hys predecessor be chosen of any but of the byshops in the same prouince and of the cleargie citizens let an other be chosen and if it be otherwise let that ordination be accompted of none effect All which councelles proue manifestly that as the people in their elections had the ministers rounde about or synodes counceiles directing them so there was none came to be ouer the people but by their voyces or consentes To the next section in the 45. page Thys alteration c. IN deede if you put such darke coleures vpon the Apostles church as thys is it is no maruell if it ought not to be a patrone to vs of framing and fashioning our church after it But O Lord who can paciently heare thys horrible disorder ascribed to the Apostles church which heere you attribute vnto it that euery one hand ouer head preached baptised and expounded the Scriptures VVhat a window nay what a gate is opened heere to Anabaptistes to confirme their fantasticall opynion wherin they holde that euery man whome the spirite moueth may come euen from the ploughe taile to the pulpit to preache the worde of god If you say it is Ambrose saying and not youres I answere vnlesse you allow it why bring you it and that to proue the difference betwene the Apostles times and these
doctrine but might haue the more time to employ in exhorting and dehorting applying of the doctrine to the times and places and persons it is manifest that he also is tied to a certaine church For howe could he be an aide vnto the pastor to whose helpe he is geuen onles he were in the same churche where the pastor is And that the Euangelistes office hath bene so taken as a function that endured but for a time it maye appeare first by that whych Eusebius wryteth speaking of Pantenus for sayeth he there were vntill that time Euangelists c. whych was about the yeare of our Lord. 162. whereby he geueth to vnderstand that about that time they ceassed and that in his time there was none when notwithstanding there were Byshops or pastors elders and Deacons And Ambrose sayth that there be no Apostles but those whych Christ himselfe dyd appoynte whereby it appeareth that of all the Ecclesiasticall functions that preache the worde there are but the pastor and Doctor only left vnto vs and the same also restrained to particulare charges Now that I haue proued that there are no Euangelists Prophets or Apostles and that the ministeries of the worde whych remaine are limited vnto certaine places I will take that whych you graunte that is that the pastor or byshop ought to haue a speciall flocke And demaund of you wherfore he should haue it is it not to attend vpon it and can he attend vpon it onles he be resident and abiding vpon it but he can not be abiding vpon it if he go from place to place to preach where he thincketh necessary therfore being pastor or bishop of a congregation allotted vnto him he maye not goe from place to place to preache where he thinketh good muche les to haue a mastership of a colledge in one corner of the land a deanrie in an other and a prebend in the third and so be absent from his pastorall charge in such places where either he preacheth not or nedeth not to preach those places being otherwise furnished wythout him For thē how is this difference kept betweene the pastor other ministers that the one is tied to a place the other is not For if you say that it is in that he shall preach more at his flocke then at other places I answer that the Euangelists and Apostles did tary longer in one place then in another taught some congregations yeres when they did not other some monethes And therefore they say nothing whych alledge for the non residence of pastors that S. Paule called Timothe Titus from Ephesus and Crete For first they were Euangelists and no pastors thē they went not of their owne heads but called of the apostle whych was a cheefe gouernor of the churche And thirdly they went not but hauing other sufficient put in their place as it appeareth in their seuerall Epistles so that if that place make any thing it maketh not to proue the non residencie but rather whether a minister may be translated from one church to an other But I will neuer wearye my penne to confute those whome their owne consciences are to strong for and confuteth euery night when they go to bed for that were nothing else but to reason with the belly that hath no eares to heare or with the backe that hathe no eyes to see Those that thinke that they hauing charges of their owne yet may goe from place to place where they thinke it necessary and that it skilleth not where they preache so they preach must consider that if they thincke that God is the author of their placing in their flockes then that either their abode there is nedeful and expedient or else that God did not see well and clearely what was meete to be done in placing them ouer that congregation and appoynting that that congregation shoulde hang and depende vppon them for their nourishment and good gouernement And you see that if I wold folow those noble metaphores of watchman shephard whych the scripture vseth to expres the office of a minister with what a large field is opened vnto me For then I could shew you how that cities beseged and flockes in danger of the wolues are * watched continually night day And that there is no citye so sore and so continually besieged nor no flockes subiect to so manifold diseases at home or hurtfull and deuouring beastes abrode that wythout any truce or intermission as are the churches the shepheards and watchmen wherof are pastors or byshops But I wil leaue that to their considerations and will shew that the partes and dueties of the minister be suche and so many in hys owne flocke the if he were as wise as Salomon was as great in coūsel as Ioseph as wel learned as s Paul as actiue as Iosue whych fought so many battels in small space yet all were little enough or too little to performe to the full that whych his charge requireth of hym Of the pastors therefore is required not only the preaching of the word and ministring of the sacraments wherof the preaching of the word and ministring of the sacrament of baptisme ought to be continually and as oft as the church may conueniently assemble the other sacrament of the Lord his supper although not so continually for that the church shall hardly haue so much leifure from their necessary affaires of this life as that they may celebrate it as often as the other yet so often as that we remēber that too rare and seldome celebrating it argueth a minde too too muche forgetfull of the vnspeakeable benefite of our redemption and argueth also that we are farre behinde the primitiue church in zeale whych did celebrate it euery Saboth I say beside the preaching of the word and ministring of the sacraments there is required of him that he shoulde admonishe priuately and house by house those that are vnder hys charge Nowe tell me howe this can be done profitably wythoute a diligent marking and loking into their manners Howe can eyther publike preachings or priuate admonitions haue their effect and working onles the worde of God be applied according to the disposition or state of that people vnto whych it is preached and vndoubtedly heereof it commeth that the word of God is no more effectuall in this realme then it is for because it is preached hand ouer head wythout knowledge and vnderstanding the estate of the people For so often times the promises and glad tidings of the gospell of oure sauioure are preached vnto those that being before secure in their sinnes are after the hearing of the promises rocked into a deade sleepe of them and they that are ouerthrowne wyth the conscience of their sinne and confounded in them selues are by the sharpnesse of the lawe and hearing of the iudgement of God broken into peeces and driuen to desperation And so likewyse the people are taught sometimes howe to lead their
constancy that all the rest of the day should be kept holy in such sorte as men should be debarred of their bodely labors and of exercising their daily vocations Nowe where as maister Doctor citeth Augustine and Ierome to proue that in the Churches in their times there were holy dayes kepte besydes the Lordes day he myght haue also cited Ignatius and Tertullian and Cyprian whych are of greater auncienty and would haue made more for the credit of hys cause seeing he measureth all hys truthe almoste throughe the whole booke by the croked measure and yarde of time For it is not to be denyed but thys keeping of holy dayes especially of the Easter and Pentecost are very auncient and that these holy dayes for the remembrance of Martyrs were vsed of long time But these abuses were no auncienter then other were groser also then thys was as I haue before declared and were easy further to be shewed if nede required And therefore I appeale from these examples to the scriptures and to the examples of the perfectest church that euer was whych was that in the apostles times And yet also I haue to say that the obseruation of those feastes first of all was much better then of later times For Socrates confessing that neyther our sauioure Christ nor the apostles dyd decree or institute any holy dayes or lay any yoke of bondage vppon the neckes of those whych came to the preaching addeth further that they did vse first to obserue the holy dayes by custom and that as euery man was disposed at home Whych thing if it had remained in that freedome that it was done by custome and not by commaundement at the will of euery one and not by constraint it had bene much better then it is nowe and had not drawne suche daungers vpon the posteritye as did after ensue and we haue the experience of As touching M. Bucers M. Bullingers Illiricus allowance of them if they meane such a celebration of them as that in those dayes the people may be assembled and those partes of the scriptures which concerne them whose remembrance is solemnised red and expounded and yet men not debarred after from their daily works it is so much the les matter if otherwise that good leaue they giue the churches to dissent from them in that poynt I do take it graunted vnto me being by the grace of God one of the churche Althoughe as touching M. Bullenger it is to be obserued since the time that he wrote that vppon the Romaines there are about .xxxv. yeares sythens whych time although he holde still that the feastes dedicated vnto the Lord as of the Natiuity Easter and Pentecost may be kept yet he denyeth flatly that it is lawfull to keepe holy the dayes of the apostles as it appeareth in the confession of the Tigurine church ioyned wyth others As for M. Caluine as the practise of hym and the church where he lyued was and is to admit no one holy day besides the Lords day so can it not be shewed out of any parte of hys workes as I thynke that he approued those holy dayes whych are nowe in question He sayeth in deede in hys Institution that he wil not condemne those churches whych vse them No more do we the church of Englande neyther in thys nor in other things whych are meere to be reformed For it is one thing to mislike another thyng to cōdemne and it is one thing to condemne some thing in the church and an other thing to condemn the church for it And as for the places cited out of the epistles to the Galathians and Collossians there is no mention of any holy dayes eyther to saintes or to any other And it appeareth also that he defendeth not other churches but the church of Geneua and answeareth not to those whych obiect against the keping of saintes dayes or any holy dayes as they are called besides the Lords day but against those whych would not haue the Lords day kept still as a day of rest from bodely labor as it may appeare both by hys place vpon the Collossians and especially in that whych is alleaged out of hys Institutions And that he meaneth nothing les then suche holy dayes as you take vpon you to defende it may appeare first in the place of the Colossians where he sayeth that the dayes of rest whych are vsed of them are vsed for pollicy sake Nowe it is well knowne that as it is pollicy and a way to preserue the estate of things and to keepe thē in a good continuance and succes that as well the beastes as the men whych labor sixe dayes should rest the seuenth so it tendeth to no pollicy nor wealth of the people or preseruation of good order that there should be so many dayes wherin men should cease from worke being a thyng whych breedeth idlenesse and consequently pouerty besides other disorders and vices whych alwayes goe in company wyth idlenes And in the place of hys Institutions he declareth hym selfe yet more plainly when he sayeth that those odde holy dayes then are wythout superstition when they be ordained only for the obseruing of discipline and order Whereby he geueth to vnderstand that he would haue them no further holy dayes then for the time whych is bestowed in the exercise of the discipline and order of the churche and that for the rest they shoulde be altogither as other dayes free to be laboured in And so it appeareth that the holy dayes ascribed to Saintes by the seruice booke is a iust cause why a man can not safely without exception subscribe vnto the seruice Nowe wheras maister Doctor sayeth it maketh no matter whether these things be taken out of the Portuis so they be good c. I haue proued first they are not good then if they were yet being not necessary abused horribly by the papistes other being as good and better then they ought not to remaine in the church And as for Ambrose saying all truthe of whome so euer it be sayde is of the holy ghoste it I were disposed to moue questions I coulde demaund of him whych careth not of whome he haue the truthe so he haue it what our sauioure Christe meant to refuse the testimony of Deuils when they gaue a cleare testimony that he was the sonne of God and the holy one and what S. Paule ment to be angry and to take it so greuously that the Pithonisse sayd he and his companion were the seruaunts of the high God whych preached vnto them the way of saluation Heere was truthe and yet reiected and I would knowe whether maister Doctor would say that these spake by the spirite of god Thus whilest wythout all iudgement he snatcheth heere a sentence and there another out of the Doctors and that of the worste as if a man should of purpose chuse oute the drosse and leaue the siluer wythin a while he wil make no great difference not
this that the church may ordaine certaine thyngs according to the word of God. But if this epistle and others of M. Bucers with his notes vpon the boke of Common prayer which are so often cited and certaine Epistles of M. Peter Martyr were neuer printed as I can not vnderstand they were then besides that you do vs iniurie whych go about to preiudice our cause by the testimonies of them which we can neither heare nor see being kept close in your study you also do your cause much more iniurie whilest you betray the pouerty and nakednes of it being faine to ransake rifie vp euery darke corner to finde some thing to couer it with Therefore it were good before you toke any benefite of them to let thē come forth and speake their owne testimonies in their owne language and ful out For now you geue men occasion to thinke that there are some other things in their Epistles whych you would be lothe the world should know for feare of fall of that which you would gladly keepe There is no man that fayth that it ought to be permitted to euery person in the church where he is minister to haue such order or discipline or to vse such seruice as he listeth no mā seeketh for it But to haue the order which God hath left in those things which the word precisely appoynteth and in other thyngs to vse that whych shall be according to the rules of S. Paule before recited agreed by the church and constrined by the Prince And whereas you haue euer hitherto geuen the ordering of these thyngs to the churche howe come you nowe to ascribe it to the Bishops you meane I am sure the Bishops as we call Bishops heere in England whereby you fall into the opinion of the papists vnwares which when they haue spoken many things of the churche magnifically at the last they bring it nowe to the Doctors of the church nowe to byshops As forme although I doute not but there be many good men of the Byshoppes and very learned also and therfore very meete to be admitted into that consultation wherin it shal be cōsidered what things are good in the church yet in respect of that office and calling of a bishop which they now exercise I thinke that euery godly learned minister pastor of the churche hath more interest and right in respect of his office to be at that consultation then any bishop or archbishop in the realme for as muche as he hath an ordinarie calling of God function appoynted in the scriptures which he exerciseth and the other hath not But how thys authoritie pertaining to the whole church of making of such orders may and ought to be called to a certaine number that confusion may be auoyded and wyth the consent also of the churches to auoyde tyrannie it shall appeare in a more proper place where we shall haue occasion to speake of the eldership or gouernment in euery churche and of the communion and societie or participation and entercommuning of the churches togither by councels and assemblies prouinciall or nationall Answere till the Admonition from the beginning of the 30. page VNto the places of Deuteronomic whych proue that nothyng oughte to be done in the churche but that whych God commaundeth and that nothyng should be added nor diminished First you answere that that was a precept geuen to the Iewes for that time whych had all things euen the least prescribed vnto them I see it is true whych is sayd that one absurditie graūted a hundred follow For to make good that things ought to be done besides the scripture and worde of God you are driuen to runne into parte of the error of the Manichees whych say that the olde Testament pertaineth not vnto vs nor bindeth not vs For what is it else then to say that these two places serued for the Iewes time and vnder the lawe For surely if these two places agree not vnto vs in time of the gospell I knowe none in all the olde Testament whych doe agree and I praye you what is heere sayde whych S. Iohn in the * Apocalipse saythe not where he shutteth vp the newe Testament in thys sorte I protest vnto euery mā whych heareth the prophecie of thys boke that whosoeuer addeth any thing to it the Lorde shall adde vnto him the plagues whych are wrytten in it and whosoeuer taketh away any thing from it the Lord shall take away his portion out of the boke of life and out of the things that are wrytten in it which admonition if you say pertaineth to that boke of the Apocalipse only yet you must remember that the same may be as truely sayd of any other boke of the scripture Then you are driuen to saye that the Iewes vnder the lawe had a more certaine direction and consequently a readyer waye then we haue in the time of the gospell of the whych time the Prophet sayeth that then a man shoulde not teache his neighbor they shal be so taught of God as if he should say that they that liue vnder the gospel should be all in comparison of that whych were vnder the lawe Doctors And Esay sayth that in the dayes of the gospell the people shall not stande in the outward courtes but he will bring them into the sanctuarie that is to say that they shoulde be all for their knowledge as learned as the Leuites and Priestes whych only had entraunce into it Now if the Iewes had precepts of euery the least action whych told them precisely how they should walke how is not their case in that poynt better then oures whych because we haue in many things but generall rules are to seeke oftentimes what is the will of God whych we should follow But let vs examine their lawes and compare them with oures in the matters pertaining to the church for whereas the question is of the gouernment of the church it is very impertinent that you speake of the iudicialies as though you had not yet learned to distinguishe betweene the Church and common wealth To the ordering and gouerning of the church they had only the moral and ceremoniall law we haue the same morall that they had what speciall direction therfore they enioy by the benefite of that we haue We haue no ceremonies but two the ceremonies or sacraments of Baptisme and of the Lords supper we haue as certaine a direction to celebrate them as they had to celebrate their ceremonies and fewer and les difficulties can rise of oures then of theirs and we haue more plaine and expres doctrine to decide our cōtrouersies then they had for theirs What houre had they for their ordinarie and daily sacrifices was it not left to the order of the church what places were apointed in their seuerall dwellings to heare the woorde of God preached continually when they came not to Ierusalem the word was commaunded to be preached but no mention made what
hell so to vpholde the archbishop the necke of it whereupon that Romishe monster standeth are raised vp from hell bastardes Clemens and Anacletus and in deede as it may appeare the very naturall sonnes of Sathan and the sworne souldiers of Antichrist A man would haue thought that the bishop of Salisburie master Iuell had so pulled of the painting of the face of this Clement that all good men would haue had him in detestation so farre of would they haue bene to haue alledged out of him to proue any thing that is in controuersie The bishop alledgeth both Eusebius and S. Ierome to proue that none of those workes which goe in his name are his And although the proufes bee strong which the bishop vseth being the witnes of vnsuspected witnesses yet because the law although it allow two witnesses notwithstanding doth like better of three I will set downe heere also Ireneus which was a great while before them both and followed hard after the times of the true and vncounterfaite Clement and therefore could best tell of him and of hys writings yet * he maketh mention but of one Epistle which vpon occasion amongst the Corinthians he wrote to them In deede in another place of that booke he sheweth that it is very probable that Clement also eyther wrote or turned the Epistle to the Hebrewes Now if that Epistle to the Corinthes were extante we shoulde easely set by comparing those that are now in hys name with that what a my shapen thing this is And if so be that Ireneus coniecture be good that Clement was the author or interpreter of the Epistle to the Hebrues then what horrible iniurie is done to the holy ghost whyle the same is supposed the wryter of thys booke to the Hebrewes which is the author of suche beggery as thys Clement brought into the worlde And I pray you doe you holde that it is the true christyan relygion whyche that booke contayneth Coulde none of these consyderations driue you from the testimonie of thys Clement it goeth very harde wyth the archbyshop when these Clementes and Anacletusses must be brought to vnderproppe hym But what if there be no such booke as thys is which you name when you say in hys booke intituled compendiariuÌ„ religionis christianae it is like you know not him nor what he sayth when you can not tell so much as his name Only because Polidore wryteth that Clement sayth this in a certayne short summary booke of christian relygion you haue set downe that he wryteth thus in a booke intituled compendiarium christianae religionis where there is no such title neyther in the councels where hys Epistles are neyther yet in all other hys works Thought you to disguise hym with thys new name of the booke that hee shoulde not be knowne â—or ment you to occupy your answerer in seeking of a booke which because he shoulde neuer fynde he should neuer answer The place which Polidore meaneth is in the first epistle which he wryteth vnto Iames the brother of the Lord which is as the rest are both rediculous in the manner of wryting in the matter oftner tymes wycked blasphemous which I speake to thys ende that the reader through the commendation that M. Doctor hath geuen to thys Clement in taking hym as one of hys wytnesses in so great a matter be not abused For answere vnto hym although he be not worth the answering I say that first it may be well sayde heere of the office of the Archbyshop that the father of it was an Amorite and mother a Hittite that is that it commeth of very infamous parentage the beginning therof being of the idolatrous nations And whereas Clement maketh S. Peter the Apostle to make it as it were hys adopted sonne thereby to wipe away the shame of hys birth it doth S. Peter shamefull iniury For besides that it was farre from S. Peter to take thys authoritie to hym selfe not only of making archbyshops through out euery prouince but also instituting a new order or office without the councell of the rest of the apostles which none else of the apostles dyd and which is contrary to the practise of S. Peter both in the first and sixt of the Actes contrary also to the practises of the apostles which after shall appeare I say besides thys is it lyke that S Peter would grasse the noblest plant as it is sayde of the mynisterie of the gospell in such a rotten stocke of that which was most abhominable in all idolarrie for the greater they were in the seruice of the idolles the more detestable were they before God. The Lorde when he woulde geuelawes of worshipping vnto hys people in the things that were indifferent of shauing cutting and apparell wearing sayth to his people that they shoulde not doe so and so because the Gentiles dyd so yea euen in those things the vse whereof was otherwise very profitable and incommodious to forbeare he would haue theÌ„ notwithstanding to abstaine from as from swines flesh conneys c. to the end that hee might haue them seuered as appeareth in S. Paule by a great and high wall from other nations And therefore it is very vnlike that S. Peter would frame the ministerie of the gospell which is no ceremonie but of the substance of the gospell by the example of the heathenish and idolatrous functions If one had sayde that the Lord had shapen hys common wealth by the paterne of other common wealthes although it had bene most vntrue all other flourishing common wealthes of Athens Lacedemon Rome borowing their good lawes of the Lordes common wealth yet had it bene more tollerable but to say he framed the ministery of the gospell by the priesthode of idolatrie is to fetch chastitie out of Sodome and to seeke for heauen in hell And if so be that the Lord had delighted in thys hierarchie he would rather haue taken of hys owne then borowed of others of hys owne church then of the sinagogue of Sathan For vnder the law besides the Leuites there were priestes and aboue them a high priest And to say that Peter appoynted archbyshoppes and byshoppes by the example of the idolaters is after a sort to make the law to come out of Egypt or Babylon and not out of Sion or Ierusalem as the Prophet sayth You say after that Iames was an archbyshop if he were he was the first and placed ouer the Iewes And although S. Peter might to gaine the Gentiles he content to vse their idolatrous functions with a little chaunge of their names yet there is none so mad to thinke that he would translate any such function from the Gentiles vnto the Iewes whych were neuer before accustomed with any such Flamines or Archiflamines And thys I dare generally and at once say against you and your Clement that the Lord translated diuers things out of the Law into the Gospell as the Presbytery or
to take vp any such custome in the tyme of the lawe it was not only not vsed but vtterly forbidden For when the law did forbyd that the priest should not be at the buryall which ought to say or conceiue the prayers there it is cleare y the Iewes might not haue any such prescript form And yet they had most nede of it for the causes of obscure knowledge weaker fayth before alledged Againe by thys meanes a newe charge is layd vpon the minister and a taking hym away from his necessary dueties of feeding and gouerning the flocke whych being so great as a maruellous diligence will scarcely ouercome oughte not to be made greater by thys being a thyng so vnnecessary The Admonition dothe not say that the Prayers whych are sayd are for the dead but that they maintaine an opinion of prayer for the deade in the heartes of the simple and that they declare manifestly enoughe when they say that it may be partly gathered c. For the mournyng apparell the admonition sayeth not simply it is euill because it is done of custome but proueth that it is hypocritical oftētimes for that it proceedeth not from any sadnes of minde whych it dothe pretende but worne only of custome there being vnder a mourning gowne of tentimes a mery heart And considering that where there is sorow in deede for the dead there it is very hard for a man to kepe a measure that he do not lament too much We ought not to vse those meanes whereby we myght be further prouoked to sorow and so go a great way beyonde the measure whych the apostle apoynteth in mournyng no more then it was well done of the Iewes in the gospell to prouoke weping sorowe for their deade by some dolfull noise or sounde of instrument or then it was lawfull for Mary Lazarus sister to goe to her brothers graue thereby to set the print of her sorow deper in her minde Seing therefore if there be no sorowe it is hypocritical to pretend it and if there be it is very dangerous to prouoke it or to cary the notes of remēbrance of it it appeareth that this vse of mourning apparel were much better layed away then kept And here M. doctor threps a litle kindnes of the authors of the admonition sayth that they know it is very ancient whom before he denyeth to haue any knowledge of antiquity In dede it is very ancient but M. doctor is afraid to shew the ancienty of it for Cyp. and Aug. inueigh vehemently agaynst it condemnyng it as vnlawfull and vndecent Nowe touching the funerall sermons M. doctor taketh on tryumpheth maruellously as though he had already gotten the victorye but he that girdeth hys harnes should not boast as he that putteth it of There is more matter then peraduenture M. doctor is aware of that whych is set downe he answeareth not as that it norysheth an opinion that the dead are the better for it whych doth appeare in the there are none more desirous of funerall sermons then the papists whych although they can not abide the doctrine whych is preached yet they wil haue suche sermons and those whych will very seldome or not at all be at other sermons will not commonly misse one of these Furthermore for so much as the minyster is driuen oftentimes by this meanes to preach vpon a sodaine the word of God therby is negligently handled especially of those whose gyftes are not so great as that they can prouide in so small time and by thys neglygent handlyng of the word of God it is brought into contempt Moreouer consydering that these funerall sermons are at the request of rych men and those whych are in authoritye and are very seldome at the buryall of the pore there is brought into the church contrary to the word of God an acceptation of persons which ought not to be For although the minister may giue to one more honor then to an other accordyng as the callyng or degree requireth yet in hys mynistery that whych pertaineth vnto hys office he ought to shew hymselfe indifferent and therfore preach as wel at the death of the pore as of the rych and because he can not well do both it is most conuenient to leaue both If so be that M. doctor wyl say that it is good that notable and famous men shuld haue their commendation to the ende that bothe the goodnes of God towardes them myght be the better knowne and others the soner drawne to followe theyr example I graunt it is so and the scrypture dothe bothe approue it and sheweth what meane is best to doe that by For so we read that Ieremy the prophet commended that godly and zealous prince Iosias in wryting verses of hys deathe He could haue as easely preached but thys he thought the best way So did also Dauid wryte verses at the death of Saul and Ionathan and Abner in whych he commendeth their gyfts and graces whych the Lord had bestowed vpon thē There were in deede of ancient time funerall orations as appeareth in Gregory Nazianzen but they sauoured of the manner of Athens where he was brought vp where also thys custome of funerall orations was vsed as may be seene in the second boke of Thucydydes story by an oration of Pericles And althoughe thys custome was not in Nazianzeus time so corrupt as afterwardes yet the departing from the examples of the purer churches gaue occasion of further corruption whych ensued And to say the truth it was better vsed amongst the Athenians then amongst the christians For there it was merely ciuill and the oration at the death of some notable personage made not by a minister but by an Orator appoynted therfore whych I thinke may well be done And if M. doctor will say that there myght be sermones although they be not mentioned neyther in the old testament nor in the new I haue answered before that seeing the holy ghost doth describe so dilygently the least circumstances of burial he would not haue omitted that being the greatest And let it be obserued that thys deuise of mannes braine bryngeth forth the same frute that other do the is dryueth quite away a necessary duety of the minister whych is to comfort wyth the worde of God the parties whych be greued at the death of their frends that consideryng the sore is perticular he apply vnto it a perticular plaister whych is very seldome or neuer done and yet a necessary duety as of a good christian so especially of the minister whych can best do it and to whome it most appertaineth And whereas M. doctor asketh when there is a better time to speake of death and of mortality then at buryall surely if it had ben so fit the Prophets and apostles would neuer haue lost that oportunity or let pas that occasion of aduancing and making effectuall their preaching What if it be answered that for as muche
But it is true that he that is once ouer the shoes sticketh not to run ouer hys bootes And last of all to proue that byshoppes may haue prisons hee citeth Peter which punyshed Ananias and Saphira with death M. Doctor must vnderstand that thys was Ecclesiasticall power and was done by vertue of that function which S. Paule calleth dynamin which is one of those functions that the Lord placed in hys church for a tyme But is thys a good argument because S. Peter punished with the word therefore the mynister may punyshe with the sworde And because S. Peter dyd so once therefore the byshop may doe so alway because S. Peter dyd that which appertayneth to no ciuill magistrate and which no ciuill magistrate by any meanes may or can doe therefore the mynister may doe that which appertayneth vnto the ciuill magistrate For if there had bene a ciuill magistrate the same could not haue punyshed thys fault of dissimulation which was not knowen nor declared it selfe by any outwarde action So that if thys example proue any thing it proueth that the mynister may doe that no man may doe but the Lord only which is to punysh faultes that are hyd and vnknowne If thys be ignoraunce it is very grosse if it be agaynst knowledge it is more daungerous I haue determyned with my selfe to leaue vnto M. Doctor hys outcries and declamations and if I should haue vsed them as often as he geueth occasion there would be no end of wryting The Lord geue M. Doctor eyther better knowledge or better conscience Vnto M. Doctor asking where it appeareth that pope Eugenius brought in prysons into the church as also vnto three or foure such like demaunds which hee maketh in thys booke the authors of the Admonition answeare at once that thys and the other are sounde in Pantaleon and M. Bales Chronicles Heere I will take in that whych the byshop of Salesbury hath in the last page of hys halfe sheete touching thys matter And first of all I wel agree that he sayth that to geue vnto sathan which is to excommunicate and to correct an Ecclesiasticall person by reprehensyon or putting hym out of the ministerye if the case so require is meere ecclesiasticall and not ciuill and that those thyngs ought to be done of the offycers of the church Thys only I deny that the ministers ought to meddle wyth ciuill offyces For proofe whereof the B. alledgeth the example of Augustine whych as Possidonius wryteth was troubled wyth the hearing determinyng of causes Wherin Possidonius sayeth nothyng but that I willingly agree vnto For the minister wyth the elders ought bothe to heare and determine of causes but of suche causes as pertaine vnto their knowledge whereof I haue spoken before And that Possidonius ment such causes as belonged vnto Augustin as he was a minister and not of ciuill affaires it appeareth by that whych he wryteth immediatly after where he sayth Being also consulted of by certen in their worldly affaires he wrote epistles to diuers but he accompted of thys as of compulsyon and restraint from hys better busynesses whereby it appeareth that S. Augustine medled not wyth those worldly affaires further then by waye of giuing counsell whych is not vnlawful for a minister to do as one friend vnto an other so that hys mynisterye be not thereby hindered And for the truthe of thys matter that ministers ought not to meddle wyth ciuill affaires I will appeale to no other then to the byshop hym selfe who dothe affirme plainly the same that the admonition heere affirmeth And therfore I conclude that for so much as bothe the holy scriptures doe teache that ministers oughte not to meddle wyth ciuill offyces and reason and the practise of the church doe confirme it that they ought to kepe thēselues within the limites of the ministerye and Ecclesiasticall functions least whilest they breake forthe into the calling of a magistrate in steade of shewing themselues episcopous that is ouerseers they be found to declare themselues * allotriopiscopous that is busy bodyes medling in thyngs whych belong not vnto them And thus putting them in remembrance of that whych they knowe well enoughe that they ought cosman sparten hen elachon that is to say studye to adorne that charge whych they take in hande and doe professe I leaue to speake any further of thys matter Vnto the two next sections I haue spoken in that whych hathe bene sayde touchyng excommunication canons and prebendaries c. and vnto that whych is contained in the. 226. and. 227. I answere that I can not excuse couetous patrones of benefices but couetous parsons and vicars be a great plague vnto this church and one of the principall causes of rude and ignorant people Lykewise vnto the two next sectiōs I haue answeared before in speaking against the spirituall courts whych are now vsed and vnto the next after that in speaking of the ordayning of ministers And vnto that whych is contained in the later ende of the. 234. and the beginning of the. 235. I say that the church shall iudge of the aptnes or vnaptnes of our reasons and albeit we do finde fault with diuers thyngs in the booke yet we neyther oppugne as enemyes nor are by the grace of God eyther Papists Anabaptists Atheists or Puretanes as it pleaseth M. Doctor to call vs And to the prayer agaynst disturbers of the churche I say wyth all my heart Amen Vnto the next section I haue answeared in the treatise of the apparell And vnto the next after in the treatise whych declareth to whome it doth appertaine to make ceremonyes and orders of the church And vnto the section contained in the. 243. page I say that M. Doctor being asked of Oynions answeareth of garlike For the authors of the admonition desyring that it myght be as lawful for them to publishe by Printe their mindes or to be heard dispute or that theyr minde put in wryting myghte be openly debated maister D. answeareth wyth Augustines sentence whych he hath made the foote of hys song nothing to the purpose of that whych they said the performance of which promise we wil notwythstanding wayte for Vnto the section contayned in the. 245. and. 246. pages HEre maister Doctor contrary to the protestation of the authors of the Admonition whych declare that for the abuses and corruptions they dare not simply subscribe sayth that therfore they will not subscribe because they are required by lawfull authoritye Whych howe bothe presumptuous and vncharitable a iudgement it is let all men iudge especially vpon this matter whych hath bene declared And where maister Doctor wold vpon the marginall note proue that we haue good discipline because we haue good doctrine and thervpon doth wonderfully tryumphe he playeth as he of whome it is sayde meden labon cratei carteros that is hauyng gotten nothyng holdeth it fast For can M. doctor be so ignorant that thys manner of speach doctrine and discipline