Ministers to marry In divers other points also many of your side say the same with the Protestants as it is already shown in this treaâ—ise And therefore if you will force the Argument to make that the safest way of salvation which differing parts agree upon why doe you not joyne with uâ— since for the Positive and Affirmative Articles of our Religion noâ— onâ—ly the mâ—st but alâ— Prâ—tâ—stant and Papâ—â—â— agâ—eâ— therein For example sâ—ke Wee agree on boâ—h sides the Scripâ—ures to be the Râ—le of Faith the bookes of the old Testamâ—nt written in Hebrew to bee Canonicall that wee are justified by Faith that God hath made two Receptaclâ—s for mens sâ—â—les aftâ—r death Heaven and Hell that God may â—e woâ—shipped in spirit wiâ—hout an Image thaâ— we are â—o pray unto God by Christ that there bee two Sacramâ—nâ—s that Christ is really recâ—ived in the Lords Suâ—per that Christ made one oblation of himselfe upon the Crosse for the Redemption Propiâ—iation and Satisfaction for the sinnes of the whole world In a word where they take the Negative part as in with-holding the Cup from the Laiâ—ie foâ—bidding the administration of the Sacraments in the vulgar tongue and restraining the marriage oâ— Pâ—iests yet even in thâ—se they condescend unto uâ— for tâ—e lawfulnesse of the thingâ— in themselves and in respâ—ct of the law of God anâ— oâ—pose them onely in regaâ—d of their conveniencie and for that the Church of Rome hath otherwise ordaâ—ned But see our â—ffiâ—mations content them not To the Scriptures theâ— addâ— and equalize unwritâ—en Traditions to â—he Hebrâ—w Canon the Apocrypha to Faith in the act of Iuâ—â—ification works to Heaven and Hell Purgaâ—oâ—ie Limbus Patrum and Limbus Pueroâ—um to the woâ—ship of God in spirit Images to Prayer to God by Chriâ—t Iâ—vocation and Intercession of Sâ—inâ—s to Bapâ—isme and â—he Lords Supper five other Sacramâ—nts to the Realiâ—ie of Christ in the Sacramenâ— his Coâ—porall presence to tâ—e Sacrifice of Châ—ist upon the Crosâ—e â—he Sacrifice in tâ—e Masse witâ— other like and these wee deny as beâ—ng Corrupt Additions to the Faith These be our grounds wherein we enter-common with them and these be their additions and improvements which they have raised and enclosed upon the Lords Freehold Let us briâ—fely survey them both Bellâ—â—mâ—ne is confidâ—nt that The Apostles never used to Preach openly to the people other things than the Articles of the Apostles Creâ—dâ— the ten Commanâ—â—mâ—nts and some of the Sacraments because saith he these are simply necessary and profitable for all men the rest besides such as that a man may be saved without them If one worship God without an Image they will not deny but that this spirituall worship is acceptable to God If one call upon God alone by the onely mediation of Christ they will not say that this dâ—votion is fruitlesse If one say the Lords Prayer or other devotions in the vulgar tongue they will not deny but that such Prayers as aâ—e made with understanding and in a knowne languagâ— may be fruitfull and effectuall For Lyra saith that If the people understand the prayer of the Priest they are better brought to the knowledge of God and they answâ—r Amen with greater devotion Cardinal Cajetan who had often performed the publike service in an unknowne tongue in the Church yet contrary to his practice professeth It is better by Saint Pauls doctrine for the â—difying of the Church that publike prayers were made in a vulgar tongue to bee understood indifferently by Priâ—sts and people â—han in Latine If a man receive the Sacâ—ament in both kinds they will not I suppose deny but that it is very comfortable to receive boâ—h pâ—rts oâ— the Eucharist Alexander of Hales the first and greatest of all the Schoole mâ—n prâ—fesseâ—h that Though the order of receiving in one kiâ—d bâ— sufâ—icient yet the order of both kinds is of morâ— merit for incâ—ease of devotion and faith If oâ—e peâ—forme the best woâ—kes hee can which wee also require and stand not upon the point of meâ—it but only upon the mercy of God as we doe this likewise serves to justiâ—ie our doctrine for they themselves hold it a Mans safest course not to trust to his owne merits but wholly and solely to cast himselfe on the mâ—rcy of God in Iesus Christ. Now this justifies our Religion and shewes that it is suâ—â—icient to salvation in as much as the grounds thereof setting aside the matters in question betweene us are fully able to instruct a man in all points necessary to his salvation both how to live religiously and to die comfortably Hence also it followeth that by their owne confâ—ssion the controveâ—ted points are unnecessary and superfluous in as much as a man may bee saved who neither knowes nor beleeves nor practises these additions and excesses of theirs Object You talke of our excesses and conceale your owne defects now as the Arch-bishop of Spalato saith Heresie consists in the defect not in the excesse of beleeving and he is an Heretike who falleth short in his faith by not belâ—eving something that is written and not hee that abounds in his faith by beleeving more than is written now you faile in that you scant the measure of your faith Answer The Analogie and integrity of faith is hurt and broken by Addition as well as Subtraction by Diseases as well as by Maimes We are forbidden under the same pâ—naltie either to adde or diminish ought from Gods word Faith is of the nature of a rule or certaine measure to which if any thing be added or taken from it it ceaseth to be that Rule Faith saith Tertullian Is contained in a Rule to know nothing beyond it is to know all thâ—ngs And a little before This first of all wee beleeve that no more ought to be bâ—leeved as necessary to all Vâ—rtue is in the meanâ— vice as well in the excesâ—e as in the defect in our body the superabundance of humours is as dangerous as lacke of them as many dye of Plethories as of Consumptions a hand or foote which hath more fingers or toes than ordinary is alike monstrous as that which wanteth the due number A foundation may bee as well overthrowne by laying on it more than it will beare as by taking away that which is necessary to support the building Errours of addition are dangerous as appeares by these instances following The Samaritanes feared the Lord and served their owne Gods 2. King 17.33 The Galathians beleeved the Gospell yet retained also and observed the legall Ceremonies Galath 4.9 Helvidiuâ— held that blessed Mary had other children unto Ioseph her husband after her sonne Iesus here was an excesse of beliefe for hee beleeved more than was revealed this opinion of Helvidius although it be not denied in the Scripture yet it is erroneous in as much as it is not therein affirmed neither can it bee thence deduced by any good consequence and therefore the
and Wine in the Sacrament of the Supper are made flesh and the bloud of Iesus in that same manner that the eternall Word of God was made flesh but so it is that the substance of the Divine nature neither evanished nor yet was changed into the substance of flesh and in like manner the Bread is made the Body of Christ neither by evanishing of the substance thereof nor yet by changing the substance thereof into another substance Iustine Martyr telleth us that the Bread and the Wine even that sanctified food wherewith our bloud and flesh by conversion are nourished is that which we are taught to be the flesh and bloud of Iesus incarnate Our Lord saith Clemens of Alexandria did blesse Wine when he said take drinke this is my bloud the bloud of the Vine Irenaeus saith that our Lord taking Bread of that condition which is usuall among us confessed it to be his Body and the Cup likewise containing that creature which is usuall among us his bloud so that in their construction it was Bread and Wine which Christ called his Body it was Bread in substance mateâ—iall Bread and the Body of the Lord in signification and Sacramentall relation The Lord called Bread his body now since Bread could not be his body substantially it must needs be it was onely his body Sacramentally Of Images and Prayer to Saints Concerning the use of Images we find that in these best ancient times Christians were so far from bringing them into their Churches that some of them would not so much as admit the Art it selfe of making them so jealous were they of the danger and carefull for the prevention of deceipt whereby the simple might any way be drawn on to the adoring of them we are plainly foâ—bidden saith Clemens Alexandrinus to exercise that deceitfull Art for the Prophet saith Thou shalt not make the likenesse of any thing either in the Heaven or in the Earth beneath Moses commandeth men to make no Image that should represent God by Art for in truth an Image is a dead matter formed by the hand of an artificer but we have no sensible Image made of any sensible matter but such an Image as is to be conceived with the understanding yea but thine Images are of Gold be it so now I pray thee what is Gold or Silver Iron Brasse Ivorie the Adamant Diamond or Precious Stones Are they not terra et ex terrâ are they ought but Earth and made of the Earth now being nothing else but a piecâ— of more refined Earth I have learned 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 terram calcare non colere to walke on the Earth and not to worship it to set my foote on it not to bow my knee to it And thus farre Clement of Alexandria holding it a monstrous thing to bow downe to a stock or a stone Irenaeus reckons it among the abuses of the Gnostikes that they had certaine painted Images and others made of other stuffe saying that it was the Picture of Christ made by Pilate When the Emperour Adrian in favour of the Christians had commanded that in every City Churches should be built without Images which at this day are called Adrians Temples because they have no Gods in them which they said he made for that end to wit to pleasure the Christians it was presently conceived that he prepared those Temples for Christ as Aelius Lampridius noteh in the life of Alexander Severus which is an evident Argument that it was not the use of Christians in those dayes to have any Images in their Churches Learned Master Casaâ—bone in his notes upon this place of Lampridius thinketh that this story is rather to be referred to Tiberius the Emperour â—han to Hadrian and that Adrian causd Temples to be dedicated to his owne name and thâ—se Temples Adrian being prevented by death remained unfinished and without any Images at all whence it came to passe that many wâ—n thought that Adrian built those Temples not to himselfe but unto Christ and with these agreeth Lampridiusâ— as one who knew that which none could then be ignorant of that both the Iewes in the Temple at Hierusalem did worship God without Images and Pictures as both Strabo and Dio write and that in their dayes the Christian Churches were such as afterwards Saint Austine reports them to have beene in his dayes Saint Austin upon the hundred and thirteenth Psalme expounding those words of David that Idols have a mouth and speake not makes this objection that the Church hath also divers instruments and vessels made of gold and silver for the use of celebrating the Sacraments but he answers have these instruments mouths and speake not eyes and see not doe we addresse our prayers to them now surely he could not have spoken thus if he had Images in Churches or if Images had bin a part of the Churches Vtensils and moveables in his dayes Concerning Prayer to Saints Iustine Martyr Clemens Alexandrinus and Tertullian have reported the publike formes of Christian service and Religious excercises of the Primitive Christians and yet make no mention of Prayer to Saints or Angels but onely of Prayer directed to God in the name and mediation of Christ alone Irenaeus tels us that in his dayes the Church per universum mundum Irenaeusâ—aith â—aith not as Fevardentius and the Papists now a dayes would teach him that the Heretikes called upon false and imaginary Saints and Angels and the Church upon the true Saints and holy Angels but this he saith that the Church called upon God in Christ Iesus Eusebius in his Storie setteth downe Verbatim a long Prayer used by Polycarp the Martyr at the time of his suffering wherin if Invocation of Saints had beene reputed any part of Christian devotion in those dayes he would undoubtedly in so great perill and at his deaâ—h have recommended himselfe to God by the Prayers and Merits of Saints but his forme of Praier is Protestant-like tendered to God himselfe only by the mediation of Christ concluding his Prayer in this manner therefore in all things I Praise thee I blesse thee I Glorifie thee through the eternall Priest of our profession Iesus Christ thy beloved Sonne to whom with thee O Father and the Holy Ghost be all Glory now and for ever Amen When the people of the Church of Smyrna desired to have the body or bones of their Martyredâ— Bishop Polycarp to buriall the Iewes perswaded the Governour not to grant it for that then the Christians would leave Christ and worship the body of Polycarp to which surmise they reâ—urne this answer we can never be induced either to forsake Christ which hath suffered for all that are saved in the World 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or to worship any other for him being the Sonne of God 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 wee adore him but the Martyrs as the
Disciples and followers of the Lord 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 them wee love worthily Now when they say that they cannot worship any other our learned and divine Antiquarie Doctour Vsher observeth that the Latine Edition of theirs which was wont to be publikely read in these Churches of the West expresseth their meaning in this manner Wee Christians can never leave Christ who did vouchsafe to suffer so great things for our Sinnes nor impart the supplication of Prayer unto any other PAP Irenaeus termeth the blessed Virgin the Advocate of Eve PRO. Indeed Bellarmine cryeth up this place with a quid clarius what can be said more plainely and Fevardentius answerable to his name falls not upon Gallasius about this place Now Irenaeus his meaning as elswhere he expresseth himselfe is this and no more that as by Eva Sinne came into the World and by Sinne death so by the Virgins meanes life and salvation instrumentally in that she was that chosen vessell of the Holy Ghost to beare him in her wombe who by taking flesh of her redeemed us from the curse of death And thus she was the Advocate or Comforter of Evah and her children by bearing Christ and not because she was invocated as a mediatour after her death by Evahs children Of Faith and Merit Irenaeus as Chemnitius observeth though he speake not expressely of Sola Fides yet he useth termes equivalent to that exclusive particle saying that there is no way to be saved from the sting of that old Serpent the Devill but by beleeving in Christ. The Fathers of this Age the most of them alleaged if not all wrote in Greeke and could not understand Merit And Polycarp the Martyr in his Prayer above mentioned useth the terme 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not for to deserve but for to attaine procure or find favour I thanke thee O Father saith he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that thou hast graciouslie vouchsafed this day and this houre to allot me a portion among the number of Martyrs Now surely had the doctrine of Merit beene Catholike in his dayes he would doubtlesse being now in extremis and upon his fiery tryall have recommended himselfe to God by the Prayers and Merits of Saints but he neither pleades his owne nor others Merits none but Chaists In this Age Polycrates Bishop of Ephesuâ— and other Easteâ—ne Bishops in Asia withstood the Pope about keeping the Feast of Easter they prooved their custome to be received from Saint Iohn and that it was practised and continued by Polycarp the Martyr and others This did so vex Pope Victor as that he excommunicated the Churches of Asia neither did he revoke his censure for ought that Bellarmine can find and yet Irenaeus a godly Bishop of Lyons in France sharply rebuked the Pope for troubling the peace of the Church yea Pâ—lycrates stood at defiance with the Pope and contemned his threates to wit excommunications PA. This was no great difference PRO. If it were a matter of small weight why then would the Pope excommunicate so many famous Churches for dissenting from him therein Besides Bellarmine saith that the Pope conceived that this difference might breede heresie belike then he thought it a matter of consequence Howsoever by this oposition to the See of Rome we may observe that had those ancient Churches of Asia acknowledged the Popes Supremacie they would not have thus opposed his Constitutions nor sleighted his Censures In this Age also I find that when Lucius a Christian Prince in this our Britaine sent to Pope Elentherius to receive some Lawes thence the Bishop returned him this Answer as appeares by a Letter or Epistle usually inserted amongst the Lawes of Saint Edward the Confessâ—ur There are already within your owne Kingdome the Old and New Testament out of which by the Councell of your Kingdome you may take a Law to Governe your people for you are the Vicar of Christ within your own kingdom Whence we may observe that howsoever the Papists now adayes labour to prove the Popes Supremacie by his giving of Lawes and inflicting his Censures on others yet in these ancient times even by the Popes owne acknowledgement the King was held to be Supreame Governour within his owne Kingdome PA. Belike then Britaine was now Converted to the Faith PRO. It was converted before this time for in the Raigne of this Lucius lived those two learned British Divines Elvanus of Glastenbury and Medvinus of Wells and these two were sent by King Lucius to the Bishop of Rome to desire a supply of Preachers to assist the Britaines and with them returned Faganus and Damianus and these jointly with the Britaines preached the Gospell and Baptised amongst the Britaines whereby many were daily drawne to the Faâ—th of Christ and the Temples of the heathenish Priests their Flamines and Archflamines as they termed them were converted into so many Bishops and Archbishops Sees as the Monke of Chester Ranulphus Higden reports Neither yet is this to be called a conversion of our Iland but rather a new supply of Preachersâ— for Iohn Capgrave a Domynickâ— Frier one whom Parsons commends for a Learned man reports that Elvanus the Britaine had dispersed thorow the wilde fields of Britaine those seeds of the Gospel that Ioseph of Arimathea had formerly sowne and that the Pope made Elvanus Bishop in Britaine and Medvinus a Doctour to preach the Faith of Christ throughout the whole Iland which sheweth that when they were sent Ambassadours to to Eleâ—therius Bishop of Rome they were then no novices but learned and practised Divines as one of their owne Historians calleth them THE THIRD CENTVRIE From the yeare of Grace 200. to 300. PAPIST WHom name you in this Age PROTESTANT In this Age there flourished Tertullian Origen and Saint Cyprian now also lived Minutius Felix a famous Lawyer in Rome Arnobius and his eloquent Scholler Lactantius Tertullian was a man of a quicke and pregnant wit hee wrote learned and strong Apologies in the behalfe of Christians Cyprian read daily some part of his writings and so reverenced him that hee used to say to his Secretary Da magistrum helpe me to my Tutour reach me my master meaning Tertullian afterwards through spight of the Roman Clergie hee revolted to the Montanists and was taken up with their idle Prophecies and Revelations Origen was in this his age a mirrour of piety and of learning of all sorts both divine and humane he conferred the Hebrew text with the Greeke translations not onely of the Septuagints but also the translations of Aquila Theodosion and Symmachus hee found out other editions also which hee set forth and called them Octupla or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 because every page contayned eight columnes or severall translations such as were then in estimation hee was of so happy a memory that hee had the Bible without booke and
resiant at Constantinople and part of the countrey that rebelled was Conquered by the King of Lumbardie and Rome and the Romane Dukedome fell unto the Pope now was the Emperour driven out of Italie and every one caâ—cht what he could the Lumbards were the strongâ—st partie and with them the Pope falls at oddes about the dividing of the spoyle and finding them too hard for him as before he had used the strength of the Lumbards to suppresse the Emperour so now he cals in Pipin Marshall of the Palace or Constable of France and â—â—aâ—les his son surnamed the Great and by their power he suppressed the Lumbards this service did Pipin and his sonne to the See of Rome in requitall whereof Chilpâ—ricke being a weake Prince was deposed Pipin and the Barons and the people of France are absolved from their Oath of Allegeance and by Pope Zacharies favour Pipin sonne to Carolus Martellus is crowned King of the Fâ—aâ—ks and Charles the Great sonne to Pipin is crowned Emperour of the West by Pope Leo the third who sâ—cceeded Adrian Then came the Pope and Charlemaigne to the partage of the Empire leaving a poore pitâ—ance for the Emperour of Greece And this was the issue of the fierce contentions about Images The Popes pulling downe Emperours and setting up Images and indeed these babies and puppits served the Popes to stalke withâ—ll but other fowle was shot at to wit Iurisdiction and a temporall Monarchie and indeed about this time the Pope grew great so that it was Gods gracious dealing with his Church that he found such opposition as he did the Easterne Emperour not daring and the Westerne in regard of late courtesies received from the Pope being haply not willing openly to affront him And thus much of Images come we now to speake a word or two of Prayer to Saints Concerning Prayer Bede in his Commentarie on the Proverbes rightly ascribed to Bede and not to Saint Hierome saith We ought to invocate that is by prayer to call into us none but God Antonius in his Melissa or mellifluous Sermon saith that Wee are taught to worship and adore that nature onely which is uncreated but the Spanish Inquisitors have clipt off a piece of his tongue Commanding the word Onely to be blotted out of his writings now the word Onely is the onely principall word that shewes us the Authors drift and the word which Gregorie Nyssen from whom he borrwed this speech used in the Originall Of Faith and Merits Bede held that we are justified by the merits of Christ imputed to us Christs condemnation is our Iustification his death is our life Hee disclaimed Iustification by inherent Righteousnesse for speaking of a regenerate man he saith That no man shall bee saved by the righteousnesse of workes but onely by the righteousnesse of Faith and therefore No man should beleeve that either his freedome of will or his merits are sufficient to bring him unto blisse but understand that he can be saved by the grace of God onely And elsewhere he saith That in the life to come we shall be well rewarded and that not by merits but by grace onely and he hath a sweet prayer that the Lord would take compassion of him and that after the worth and condignitie of his mercies and not after the condignitie of wrath which himselfe had deserved His Scholler Alcuinus maintained the same truth as appeares by these passages following I could saith Alcuinus defile my selfe with sinne but I cannot clense my selfe it is my Saviours bloud that must purge me and againe Whiles I looke on my selfe I find nothing in mee but sinne thy righteousnesse must deliver mee it is thy mercy not my merits that saves mee And elsewhere he saith very sweetly He onely can free me from sinne who came without sinne and was made a sacrifice for sinne And thus by Gods prouidence was the weightie point of Iustification preserved found in these latter and declining times THE NINTH CENTVRIE From the yeare of Grace 800. to 900. PAPIST WHat say you of this ninth Age PROTESTANT The seeds of Knowledge which our worthy Coâ—ntrey-men Bede and Alâ—win planted in Gods Field shewed themselues in their Schollers such as were Claudius Scotus Scholler to Saint Bede Rabbanus Maurus Abbot of Fulden one who as Trithemius saith for his learning had not his match in Italy or Germanie Haymo bishop of Halberstat and our Countrie-man Ioannes Scotus Erigena all three Schollers to Alcuinus Now also lived Christianus Druthmarus the Monke and the Abbot Walafridus Strabo who collected the ordinary Glosse on the Bible Agobardus bishop of Liâ—ns Claudius bishop of Thurin in Piemont Bertram a Pâ—iest and Monke of Corbey Abbey wherâ—of Paschaâ—ius was sometimes Abbot and about the yeare Eight huâ—dred and â—inetie according to Bellarmine lived the Monke Ambrosius Ausbertus About the yeare 880â— lived Remigius borne at Auxâ—rre in Fraâ—ce and sometimes called Rhemensis haply because he taught at Rhemes there was another Remigius Archbishop of Rhemes who liued in the sixth Age and converted King Clovis of France to the Christian Faith but this Saint Remigius for ought wee know wrot nothing Claudius Scotus already mentioned was one of the Irish Nation by birth a famous Divine and accounted one of the Founders of the Vniversitie of Paris this Claudius Clemens Presbiter was of latter standing and inferiour in place to that other Claudius Scotus bishop of Auxerâ—e a great opposite to Boniface Archbishop of Meâ—ts This latter Claudius wrote on the Gospels and Epistles and is often alleaged by the Reverend and learned Lord Primate Doctor Vsher. Of the Scriptures sufficiencie and Canon Claudius Scotus saith That men therefore erre because they know not the Scriptures and because they are ignorant thereof they consequently know not Christ who is the power and wisdome of God Hee also bringeth in that knowne Canon of Saint Herome This because it hath not authoritie from the Scriptures is with the same facilitie contemned wherewith it is avowed Nicephorus Patriarke of Constantinople gives us to understand That the Bookes of the old Testament were twenty and two And treating of the Apocriphall Bookes he mentioneth in particular the Bookes of Maccabees Wisdome Ester Iudith Susanna Tobie Of Communion under both kindes and number of Sacraments Paschasius upon our Saviours words Drinke yee all of this saith Drinke yee all of this as well Ministers as the rest of the Faithfull Rabanus saith That the Lord would have the Sacrament of his Body and bloâ—d to be received by the mouth of the Faithfull Haymo saith The Cup is called the Communion because all communicate of it and doe take part of the bloud of the Lord which it containeth in it Hee saith all did communicate so that the People as well as the Priests were admitted to the Cup. And Rhemigius hath the very same words
but only cast downe some encroachments and improvements of poperie wee have no more erâ—cted a new faith in respect of the substance and essentials thereof than that zealous reformer Iosia built a new materiall Temple when hee cast out the Idols and Idolatrous worship out of the Lords house There is no other difference betwixt the Reformed and the Romish Church then betwixt a field well weeded and the same field formeâ—ly overgrowne with weeds or betwixt a heape of corne now well winnowed and the same heape lately mixed with chaffe And if it be a vaine and frivolous thing to say it is not the same field or the same corne as vaine and frivolous is it to say the Church is not the same it was or in the same place after it is swept and cleansed of the filth and dust or to say the Churches of Corinth and Galatia after their reformation occasioned by Saint Pauls writing were new Churches and not the same they were before because that in them before the Resurrection was denied Circumcision practisâ—d discipline neglected and Châ—isâ—s Apostles contemned which things now are not found in them or to say Naaman was not still the same person because before hee was a Leper and now is cleansed PA. If our Romane Church were so corrupt whence then had you the truth what you had you received from us PRO. Saint Austine saith that the Iewes were to the Christians Library-keepers of the bookes of the Law and the Prophets and might not the Romanists performe the like office to the Protestants The Iewish Church what time it was unsound preserved the Scriptureâ—Canon and by transcribingâ— and reading the same delivered the whole text therof trâ—ly to others And thus the Roman Church though in many things unsound preserved the bookes of holy Scripture and taught the Apostles Câ—eed with sundry parts of divine truth gathered from the same and by these principles of Christianitie preserved in that Church judicious and godly men might with study and diligence finde out what was the first delivered Christian doctâ—ine in such things as were necessary to salvation And herein was Gods gracious providence sâ—ene that even that Church wherein Luther himselfe received his Christianitie Ordination and power of Ministerie should for the benefit of Gods children preserve the Word and Sacraments and deliver them over to us though somewhat corruptly by their adding more Sacraments than ever Christ ordained and abusing those which we retaine with divers unwarrantable rites and Ceremonies In a word we received from you some truth mingled with errour wee have pared away your corruption as a worme out of an Apple and retained the wholsome and substantiall truth PA. Was there any Chucrh in being save our Roman Catholick in thâ— Ages next before Luther if so show uâ— where it was and with whom it held Communion PRO. When Christ came first into the World the Iewish Church was corrupted both in doctrine and manners this Church had in it Scribes and Pharisees as well as Zachary and Elizabeth Ioseph and Mary Simeon and Anna with others these were all of the same outward Communion with the Priesthood for they resorted to the Temple there they prayed and performed such holy rites as God himselfe enjoyned untill they heard farther of the Gospel by Christs manifestation Now I demand were not Ioseph and Mary and such good people â—ound members of Gods Church although the Scribes and Pharisees bore all the sway in the Church and had the Priesthood the word and Sacraments in their dispensing yet even then God had a Remnant of holy people which made up his Church though others went under the name thereof and exceeded them in number Now with these the sound part kept an outward Communion yet did not partake in all their erronious doctrines but condemned their grosser errours In like sort we were all of one outward Communion of one Church wherin salvation was and yet we shared not in those errours which a faction in the Church like the Pharisees of old maintained For as learned Dr. Field saith The errours which wee condemne at this day whereupon the difference groweth betweene us and the Romish faction were never generally received nor constantly delivered as the doctrines of the Church but doubtfully disputed and proposed as the opinions of some men in the Church not as the resolved determinations of the whole Church For had they beene the undoubted doctrines and determinations of the Church all men would have holden them entirely and constantly as they held the doctriâ—e of the Trinity and other Articles of the Faith And I have already showne from age to age that the errours condemned by us never found generall allowance and constant consent in the dayes of our fathers but that some worthy guides of Gods Church ever opposed them And thus was our Church preserved under the Papacie as wheaâ—e is among tares for wee were formerly mingled together like corne and chaffe in one heape until the time of Reformation came and winnowed our wheat from the chaffe of Poperie So that howsoever divers under the Papacie not brooknig Reformation maintained sundry erronious opinions Yet there were other worthies who living within that Communitie were not equally poysoned with errour but firmely beleeved all fundamentall truth and delivered the maine Articles of Christianitie over unto others For Answer then to the Question Where had our Church her being in the Ages next before Luther we say It was both within the Romane Church and without it For as learned Doctor Chaloner saith Our Church had in those dayes a twofold Subsisâ—encie â—he one Separate from the Church of Rome the other Mixt and conjoyneâ— with it Separate so it was in the Albâ—genses and Waldenses a peâ—ple whoâ— so soone as the Chuâ—ch of Rome had inteâ—preted her selfe touching sundry of those maine poynts of dâ—ffâ—rence betweene us and that a man could no lâ—nger Communicate with her in the publicke worship of God by reâ—son of soâ—e Idolatrous rites and customes which shâ— had establishâ—dâ— arose in France Savâ—y and the places neere adjoyning and professed the same substantiall Negatives and Affirmatives which we doe in a state Sepaâ—atâ— from the Church of Rome having Pastours and Congregations apart to themselves even unto this day From these descended the Wicklefisâ—s in England and the Hussites in Germanie and oâ—hers in other Countries who Maâ—gre the â—urie of fire and Sword maintained the same doctrine as they did The state of the Church mixt and conjoyned with the Church of Rome it selfe consisted of those who making no visible separation from the Roman profession as not perceiving the mysterie of iniquity which wrought in it did yet mislike the grosser errours and desired a Reformation To answer then the quâ—stion directly where was the Prâ—testants Church before Luthers time that is where was any Church in the world that taught that doctrine which the Protestants now teach â—