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A16913 A reply to Fulke, In defense of M. D. Allens scroll of articles, and booke of purgatorie. By Richard Bristo Doctor of Diuinitie ... perused and allowed by me Th. Stapleton Bristow, Richard, 1538-1581. 1580 (1580) STC 3802; ESTC S111145 372,424 436

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body before the generall Resurrection If that be so manifest what els was it then but the rest of his soule that Martha would haue Christ to pray for when she saide thus vnto him But also now I know that whatsoeuer things thou shalt aske of God God will graunt thee To whiche purpose also some auncient writers expound that place But to alleage places is not my intent here it is onely to answere your allegations And now hauing done with all your negatiues we are come to your affirmatiues ij Ab authoritate Scripturae affirmatiue First about certayne foundations of Purgatory and prayer for the dead For breuitie to speake ioyntly of Purgatory and of relieuing the soules that be there your affirmatiue allegations against both are leuied by you partly at the foundation of them partly at the two them selues And the foundations béeing diuerse you haue both seuerall shot agaynst the seuerals and also one common shot against all or many of them in common To eche sorte I shall with the helpe of God whose cause it is make answere most easily and most truely The distinction of Veniall and Mortall sinne And first D. Allen declareth out of the Doctors Pur. 126.127.128 what sinnes may be purged in Purgatory to wit not onely such as are Veniall of their owne nature but also suche as are mortall of their owne nature so that they were in Gods Church remitted afore Fulke sayth that This is manifestly ouerthrowen by the worde of God euen from the foundations For the foundation of this doctrine is the distinction of veniall and mortall sinnes Not so syr the doctrine is that mortall sinnes by the Churches remission become as veniall and you graunt it your self saying All sinnes except certayne of which your good exceptions I shall say more anone by Gods mercy are pardonable or veniall Thus you graunt the doctrine and yet you graunt not the foresaid distinction therfore the distinction is not the foundation of that doctrine but the doctrine may stand well without it But yet for other causes we must be content to sée what you alleage against the distinction The worde of God playnely determineth that euery sinne is mortall deserueth eternall death seeme it neuer so small So you say and you alleage thrée places for it The first Cursed is euery one that abideth not in all thinges that are written in the Lawe to fulfill them Deut. 27. I syr but find you in the Scripture no other Curse that is to say payne for sinne but eternall death Is it not written Cursed is euery one that hangeth on tree yet hāging on trée or crucifying Deut. 21. Gal. 3. is not eternall death Agayne euery one in that saying is meant by the Apostles exposition not of Christians but of them onely whiche trust in the lawe for it selfe who in déede can neuer attayne to no remission neither of their mortall nor of their veniall sinnes But we that holde of Christ and of his spirite are in case alwayes to receiue remission whensoeuer we sinne venially 1. Ioan. 1.3 for so we can But we can not sinne mortally holding I say Christ and his spirite And therefore if we do sinne mortally at any time depriuing our selues thereby of Christes spirite the remedie is to séeke for the same agayne by the Sacrament of penaunce and then are we in good case agayne as before Your other two places are these The soule that sinneth shall dye Ezech. 18. and The rewarde of sinne is death Rom. 6. S. Iames giueth vs the meaning of these suche like places where he saith Peccatum verò cum consummatum fuerit generat mortem Iac. 1. Sinne when it is consummate gendreth death But not so soone as it is gendred and yet it is sinne as soone as it is gendred Therefore some sinne there is which yet gendreth not death Marke the order Deinde concupiscentia cum conceperit parit peccatum peccatum verò cum consummatū fuerit generat mortem First commeth the temptation of our concupiscence as it were of a lewde woman Secondly concupiscence when she hath conceiued by obteining some light consent beareth sinne venial sinne Mary thirdly Sinne when it is consummate by our full and perfect consent yéelded vnto it gendreth or bringeth foorth death if the matter be of weight accordingly For els that the lightnes of the matter as an idle worde bringeth not death he sufficiently signifieth in saying that in a weightie matter the lightnes or imperfection of consent doth it not Whether after sinne remitted payne may remayne Now to another foundation to wit That culpa the fault both in Venial and in Mortal sinne may be forgiuen of God and of his Church and yet some payne though not eternall be owing for it sometime so that the same must in such case be in this life eyther payde or pardoned or els in Purgatory it wil be exacted Pur. 45. This is against Ezechiel saith Fulke What time soeuer a man doth truely repent the Lord doth put al his sinnes out of his remembraunce You might haue done well to quote the place where Ezechiel so saith ad verbum The trueth is that in a moment the repentaunce may be so great that there is no more remembraunce at all But Ezechiel if you meane the 18. Chapter speaketh of a longer time so that The wicked man must repent him of all his sinnes and keepe all Gods commaundementes and do right and iustice and then vita viuit non morietur when the day commeth to rewarde euery one according to his workes here He shall liue not dye All his iniquities that he worked I will not remember saith God for his iustice that he wrought he shall liue For otherwise who knoweth not those voyces Psal 24.78 Lord remember not the sinnes of my youth and Lord remember not our old sinnes Are they not the words of men which had already repented them acknowledging neuerthelesse that God may yet remember them Againe you say It is against Dauid Pur. 45.46 Psal 102. The Lord hath remoued our sinnes from vs as farre as the east is from the west Who may not say this for béeing remoued frō eternall damnation although he haue yet to abide neuer so much temporall punishment Howbeit those words as the whole Psalme are not spokē of the time of our first receiuing againe into the fauour of God by absolution but to magnifie his mercy in our finall restitution which shal be at the later day For which cause the Church very aptly singeth that Psalme vpon the feast of Christes Ascention Also out of the New Testament you say The Publicane Pur. 43. the Prodigall childe the Debters all clearely remitted do playnely proue that God frely forgiueth iustifieth rewardeth the penitent sinners without exacting any punishment of them for answering of the debt satisfying for the sinnes abusing his fatherly clemēcie Luk. 7.15.18 You speake here very indefinitely as though God
vnto litle but religion is profitable vnto all things hauing promise of this present life and of the life to come Now what Scripture conferre you to shew that by bodily exercise he meaneth fasting and abstinence from wine or flesh The thing is playne if we marke and conferre no more but the words of this place it selfe that bodily exercise is that which is done for the body to preserue it in health in this present life to the which most men yea priestes and bishops sometimes are too much giuen mispēding much time in walking riding hunting hawking and such like for the preseruation of their bodies and litle or no time at all in spirituall exercise that is to say for the preseruation and increase of their soules in godlines religion wheras the same notwithstanding is as we know by Gods promise in diuers places of holy Scripture profitable both to that litle which they séeke for by such bodily exercise that is to this present life in so muche that many holy Ermites Monks liuing continually in such exercise haue passed the age of a hundred yeres and also which is incōparable to the life to come And therefore S. Paule absteined and fasted him selfe to auoyde eternall damnation as your selfe confessed a litle afore Ne reprobus efficiar least I become a reprobate 1. Cor. 9. saith he and not onely that but also to get coronam incorruptam a crowne incorruptible And the place is much to be noted for conference with this place which we haue in hande because he there calleth it his running and fighting that he did so sharply vse his owne body saying that he did therein imitate the schollers of bodily exercise to wit the runners in gole and fighters at barriers who to make them selues more nimble actiue absteine from all things and yet no more but to winne a corruptible crowne being as litle a thing as that litle that he speketh of to Timothie or rather much lesse though of some estéemed much more such present glory I say compared with this present life and health thereof Thus you sée by conference most manifestly what is bodily exercise and that you cleane contrary not knowing white frō blacke take it for fasting abstinence for that exercise I say which the Apostle there opposeth to it and counteth spirituall or exercise vnto Godward Which spiritual exercise as S. Paule so his disciple also S. Timothie vsed in like champion maner Amongest other poyntes of it to kéepe him selfe chast he absteined wholly from wine drunk nothing but water though being maruelous weake of body Whervpon the Apostle like a tender father writeth vnto him 1. Tim. 5. Kepe thy selfe chast by other exercise but do not yet drinke water but vse a litle wine for thy stomake thy often sicknings Which place againe you depraue say that the Apostle writeth this vnto him assuring him that such bodily exercise profiteth but a litle Pur. 76. No syr I haue shewed you what the Apostle calleth bodily exercise and that he counteth this to be exercise vnto godlines and that it profiteth so much as importeth besides this life which is but litle the auoyding of damnation the winning of a crowne in heauen Howbeit for al that they which are weak of body must runne wrestle as they may Timothie must consider that he is excéeding féeble and therfore not alwayes to drinke water onely and yet withal that he is young and therfore not to be very bold of wine but vse a litle only The measure of al is as S. Paule hath taught vs 1. Cor. 9. to tame the pride of the body to subdue it to bring it vnder that it be not our maister that it be our seruaunt neither rebelling against our commaundement nor fainting in our necessary worke Which measure is set prescribed so as it might in generall by his Spirite and by his Spouse who prophecied of such prescript fasting like to the fastes prescribed by S. Iohn to his disciples Mat. 9. as also of the Pharisées and Filij sponsi the children of the Bridegrome do fast them howsoeuer the children of Aerius of Iouinianus do breake them contemne them blaspheme them So much of good-Good-works now to the Sacramentes About the Sacramentes in generall Of the Sacramentes in generall first you say Pur. 450. We beleue that there are but two Sacramentes of the New Testament Baptisme and the Lords Supper instituted by Christ 1. Cor. 10. You meane belike the beginning of that chapter wher it is said that the Israelites were in Moyses baptized in the Cloude and in the Sea and did eate and drinke of Manna of the Rocke Are those the sacraments of the new Testament instituted by Christ Again suppose they are what a reason is this In that place we reade of two Supra pag. ergo there are but two It is no good Logike you sayd your self in this chapter aboue to conclude negatiuely of one place of Scripture This is not conteined in it therefore it is not true For we reade as playnly yea more playnly of the other fiue sacramentes in other places as of Confirmation Ioa. 7. of Penance Io. 20. of Extreme vnction Iac. 5. of Orders Mat. 26. of Matrimony Mat. 19 and of most of them in many other places also That they be Sacraments I cōfesse we reade not there no more do we 1. Cor. 10. or any where els reade that the other two be Sacramentes but that we gather of that which we reade and as wel in the fiue as in the two This is inough yet for further satisfaction the studious may cōsider that S. Paule 1. Cor. 10. had iust cause to mention those two or three figures onely For his purpose there is 1. Cor. 9.10 to warne vs that it is not inough that we be entred within the barres but that we must afterward runne and fight coragiously to winne the prise Therfore he nameth these Mosaical mysteries that were figures of the Sacramentes which we began withall to witte Baptisme and the complement of Baptisme which is Confirmation the Eucharist which thrée were then commonly and yet be at once ministred adultis at their first entring into the Church as it is manifest in antiquitie Infra ca. .12 and may be gathered Heb. 6. Now then what reason is it to trie the number of the Sacramentes by that place as though because those be at the first entrance therefore there be no more in the whole course nor in the end nor to gouerne the knights nor to encrease them nor to saulue them Pur. 450. Moreouer you say of the Sacraments in generall We beleeue that they giue not grace ex opere operato of the work wrought but after the faith of the receiuer and according to the election of God 1 Cor. 10. Againe And how should the Sacrament giue grace of the worke wrought if faith were requisite in