Parker detentus est sub custodia mea per mandatum Domini Regis mihi nunciatum per Robertum Pecke now our case is by the Nunciation of many but in Law majus minus non variant in spetione the certification of one and of many is of the same effect although in morall understanding there may be a difference Trin. 2. Ed. 3. Rot. 46. in this Court in 21 Ed. 3. in the printed Book there is a piece of it The Abbot of Burey brings a prohibition out of this Court the Bishop of Norwich pleadeth in Barre of that Quod mihi testificatū quod continetur in Archivis that he is excommunicated there were two exceptions taken to this case in this president and they are both in one case the first was that no case appeareth why he was excommunicated there may be causes why he should be excommunicated and then he should be barred and there may be causes why the excommunication should not barre him for it may be the excomunication was for bringing the action which was the Kings writ and therefore because there was no cause of the excommunication returned it was ruled that it was not good The other reason is that upon the Roll which is mihi testificatum Now every man when he will make a certificate to the Court Proprium factum suum non alterius significare debet he must inform the Court of the immediate act done and not that such things are told him or that such things are signified unto him but that was not done in this case and therefore it was held insufficient and so in this case of ours I conceive the return is insufficient in the form there is another cause my Lord for which I conceive this return is not good But first I will be bold to inform your Lordship touching the Statute of Magna Charta 29. Nullus liber homo capiatur vel imprisonetur c. ne◠super eum mittimus nisi per legale judicium parium suorum vel per legem terrae That in this Statute these words in Carcerem are omitted out of the printed Books for it should be nec eum in Carcerem mittimus For these words per legem terrae what Lex terrae should be I will not take upon me to expound otherwise then I finde them to be expounded by Acts of Parliament and this is that they are understood to be the processe of the Law sometimes by writ sometimes by attachment of the person but whether speciale mandatum Domini Regis be intended by that or no I leave it to your Lordships exposition upon two petitions of the Commons and answer of the King in 36 Ed. 3. n o 9. and n o 20. In the first of them the Commons complain that the great Charter the Charter of the Forrest and other Statutes were broken and they desire that for the good of himself and of his people they might be kept and put in execution and that they might not be infringed by making an arrest by speciall command or otherwise and the answer was that the assent of the Lords established and ordained that the said Charter and other Statutes should be put in execution according to the petitition and that is without any disturbance by arrest by speciall command or otherwise for it was granted as it was petitioned In the same year for they were very carefull of this matter and it was necessary it should be so for it was then an usuall thing to take men by writs quibusdam de causis and many of these words caused many Acts of Parliament and it may be some of these writs may be shewn and I say in the same year they complained that men were imprisoned by speciall command and without indictment or other legall course of Law and they desired that thing may not be done upon men by speciall command against the great Charter The King makes answer that he is well pleased therewith that was the first answer and for the future he hath added farther if any man be grieved let him complain and right shall be done unto him This my Lord is an explanation of the great Charter as also the Statute of 37 Ed. 3. ch 18. is a commentary upon it that men should not be committed upon suggestion made to the King without due proofs of Law against them and so it is enacted twice in one year We find more printed Books as in Henry the sixth Minus de fiacts Fitz. 182. which is a strong case under favour in an action of Trespasse for cutting down trees the defendant saith that the place where the trees are cut is parcell of the Manor of B whereof the King is seised in fee and that the King did command him to cut them and the opinion of the Court was that this was no good plea without shewing the specialty of the command and they said if the King command me to arrest a man and I arrest him he shall have an action of false imprisonment against me although it were done in the Kings presence In 1 Ioh. cap. 7. fol. 46. it is in print and there we leave it Hussey Chief Justice saith that Sir Iohn Markham told King Edward the fourth that he could not arrest a man upon suspition of felony or treason as any of his Subjects might because if he should wrong a man by such arrest the parties could have no remedy against him if any man shall stand upon it here is a signification of the Kings pleasure not to have the cause of the commitment examined he hath here another signification of his pleasure by writ whereby the party is brought hither ad subjiciendum recipiendum that he hath made your Lordship Judge of that that should be objected against this Gentleman and either to punish him or to deliver him and if here be no cause shewn it is to be intended that the party is to be delivered and that it is the Kings pleasure it should be so and the writ is a sufficient warrant for the doing of it there being no cause shewn of the imprisonment and now my Lord I will speak a word to the writ of de homine replegiando and no other writ for that was the common writ and the four causes expressed in that Statue to wit the death of a man the command of the King or his Justices or Forrest were excepted in that writ before that Statute made as appears Bracton 133. so that the writ was at the Common Law before that Statute And it appears by our Books that if a man be brought hither by an Habeas corpus though he were imprisoned De morte hominis as in the 21 of Edward the fourth 7. Winkfield was bailed here this Court bailed him for he was brought hither ad subjiciendum recipiendum and not to lie in prison God knows how long and if the Statute should be expounded otherwise there were no bailing men outlawed or breakers of prisons
made fully to the maintenance of their resolution and that there was not one example or president of a Remittitur in any kinde upon this point before that of Cesars Case which is before cleared with the rest and is but of late time and of no moment against the resolution of the house of Commons And thus for so much as concerned the presidents of Record the first day of the conference desired by the Lords ended The next day they desired another conference which the house of Commons at which it pleased the Committee of both houses to hear M â— Attâ—rney again to make what Objection he would against other parts of the Arguments formerly delivered by the house of Commons He then Objected against the Acts of Parliament and against the reasons of Law and his Objections to these parts were answered as appears in the answers by order given into the house of Commons by the gentlemen that made them He Objected also upon the second day against that second kinde of presidents which are resolutions of Judges in former times and not of Records and brought also some other Testimonies of opinions of Judges in former times touching this point First for that resolution of all the Judges in England in 34. of Queen Eliz. mentioned and read in the Arguments made at the first conference he said That it was directly against the resolution of the House of Commons and observed the words of it to be in one place that Persons so committed by the King or the Councel may not be delivered by any of the Courts c. and in another that if the Cause were expressed either in generality or speciality it was sufficient and he said that the expressing of a cause in generality was to shew the Kings or Councels Command And to this purpose he read the whole words of that reâ—olution of the Judges Then he Objected also that in a report of one Ruswells Case in the Kings-bench in the 13. Iac. he found that the opinion of some Judges of that Court S r. Edward Coke being then Chief Justice and one of them was that a Prisoner committed per mandatum Domini Regis or privati Consilii without cause shewed and so returned could not be bayled because it might be matter of State or Arcanuâ— Imperii for which he stood committed And to this alâ—o he added an opinion that he found in a Journal of the House of Commons of the 13. Iac. wherein S r. Edward Coke speaking to a Bill preferred for the explanation of Magna Charta â—ouching imprisonâ—ent said in the House That a Prisoner so committed could not be enlarged by the Law because it might be Matter of State for which he was committed And among these Objectiâ—â—â— of other nature also he spake of the confidence that was shewed iâ— behalf of the House of Commons he said that it was not confidence could add any thing to the determination of the question but if it could that he had as much reason for the other side against the resolution of the House grounding himself upon the force of 〈◊〉 Objections which as he conceived had so weakned the Argument of the Commons House that notwithstanding any thing yet Objected they wereupon clear reason confident of the truth of their first resolution grounded upon so just examination and deliberation taken by them And it was observed to the Lords also that their confidence herein was of another nature and far greater weight then any confidence that could be expressed by M. Attorney or whomsoever elâ—e being of his Majesties Councel learned To which purpose the Lords were desired to take into their Memory the difference beâ—ween â—he present quality of the Gentlemen that â—pakâ— iâ— behalf of the House of Commons and of the Kings learned couâ—cel in their speaking there howsoever accidentally they were 〈…〉 of the same profession For the Kings Councel spake as 〈◊〉 perpetuâ—lly retained by Fee and if they made glosses and 〈…〉 adâ—anâ—agious Interpretations soever for their own part thâ—y did but wâ—aâ— belonged to their place and quality as M r. Attornâ—y had done But the Gentlemen that spake in behalf of the House of Commons came therâ— bound on the one side by the trust reposed in them by their Countrey that sent them and on the other bound also by an Oâ—th taken by every of them before they sit in they House to maintain aâ—d deâ—end the rights and prerogatives of the Crown So that 〈…〉 thâ— poâ—â—â— of confidence alone that of them that spake as â—â—tained Councel by perpetual Fee and might by their place being pâ—râ—itâ—ed to speak say what they would and that of them that spake as bound to nothing but truth but by such a trust and such an Oath were no way to be so compared or Counterpoised as if the one of them were of no more weight then the other And then the Objections before mentioned were also answered For that of the resolution of all the Judges of England in 34. Eliz. It was shewed plainly it agreed with the resolution of the House of Commons For although indeed it might have been expressed with more perspicuity yet the words of it as they are sufficiently shew that the meaning of it is no otherwise To that purpose besides the words of the whole frame of this resolution of the Judges as it is in the Coppy transcribed out of the Lord Chief Justice Andersons book written in his own hand which book was there offered to be shewed also in behalf of the House of Commons It was observed that the Records of the first part of it shew plainly that all the Judges of England then resolved that the Prisoners spoken of in the first part of their resolution were onely Prisoners committed with cause shewed for they onely said they might not be delivered by any of the Courts without due Trial by Law and Judgement of acquital had which shews plainly that they meant that by trial and acquital they might be delivered but it is clear that no trial or acquital can be had where is not some cause laid to their charge for which they ought to stand committed Therefore in that part of the resolution such Prisoners are onely meant as are committed without cause shewed which also the Judges in that resolution expresly thought necessary as appears in the second part of the resolution wherein they have these words If upon Return of the Habeas Corpus the cause of their commitment be certified to the Judges as it ought to be c. by which words they shew plainly that every return of a commitment is insufficient that hath not a cause shewed of it And to that which Mr. Attorney said as if the cause were sufficiently expressed in generality if the Kings Command or the Councels were expressed in it and as if that were meant in the resolution for a sufficient general cause it was answered That it was never heard of in Law that the power or
yet may be broken by the word Soveraign power and so the virtue of the Petition taken away The end of the Petition is not to enlarge the bounds of Law but their Liberties being infringed to reduce them to their ancient bounds and shall we by admitting of these words Soveraign power instead of cureing the wound launch it and cut it deeper The next point is the word trust a word of large latitude and deep sence we know that there is a trust in the Crown and King but regulated by Law we acknowledge in penal Statutes the King may grant another power to dispense with the Law but Magna Charta inflicting no penalty leaveth no trust but claimeth his own right therefore the word trust would confound this distinction Our next reason is we think it absolutely repugnant to any course of Parliament to put saving to the Petition In former times the course of petitioning the King was this The Lords and the Speaker either by words or writing preferred their Petition to the King this then was called the Bill of the Commons which being received by the King part he received and part he put out part he ratified for as it came from him it was drawn into a Law But this course in 2. H. 5. was found prejudicial to the Subject and since in no such cases they have petitioned by Petition of Right as we now do who come to declare what we demaund of the King For if we should tell him what we should not demaund we should then proceed not in a Parliamentary course Now for that which is alleadged by your Lordships de articulis sup Chartas that my Lords is not like this that is saving upon particulars But this Petition consisting on particulers would be destroyed by a general saving The saving de articulis sup Chartas are of three aids for Ransomming the Kings Person for Knighting the Kings eldest Son and once for Marrying the Kings eldest Daughter These by the form of the Petition shew that they came not in upon the Kings answer but upon the Petition First then followed the savings which under favour we think are no reasons to make us accept of this saving being not pertinent to the Petition These 23. Statutes 34. E. 1. were made to confirm Magna Charta so that there are in all 30. Acts to set Magna Charta in its purity and if some subsequent Statute have laid some blemish upon it shall we now then make the subject in worse case by laying more weight upon it God forbid In the next place your Lordships reason thus that this which you wish we would admit of is no more then what we formerly did profess when we sent the King word we had no purpose at all to trench upon his prerogatives It is true my Lords we did so but this was not annexed to any Petition for in that manner we should never have done it And here I am commanded with your favours to deliver unto you what a Learned Member of the House delivered unto our House touching this point The King saith he and the Subject hath two liberties Two Mannors joyning one upon another the King is informed the Subject hath intruded upon him but upon triall it appeareth not to be so were it fitting think you that the Subject should give security that he should not inâ—roach or intrude on that Mannor of his because the King had been informed he did so I think you will be of another minde wherefore I am commanded seeing we cannot admit of this addition to desire your Lordships to joyn with us in the Petition which being granted and the hearts of the King and people knit togeather I doubt not but his Majestie will be safe at home and feared abroad Sir HENRY MARTINS Speech MY Lords the work of this day wherein the House of Commons hath implyed the Gentleman that spake last and my self was to reply to the answer which it hath pleased the Lord Keeper to make to those reasons which we had offered to your Lordships conâ—ideration in justification of our refusall not to admit into our Petition the addition commended by your Lordships which reasons of ours since they have not given such satisfaction as we desired and well hoped as by the Lord Keepers answer appeared It was thought fit for our better order and method in replying to divide the Lord Keepers answer into two parts a Leagall and a Rationall The reply to the leagall your Lordships have heard my self comes intrusted to reply to the rational which also consisted of two branches the first deduced from the whole context of the additional clause the second inforced out of some part In the first were these reasons that the same deserved our acceptance First as satisfactory to the King Secondly to your Lordships Thirdly agreeable to what our selves had often protested and professed expresly by the mouth of our Speaker I must confess these motives were weighty and of great force and therefore to avoid misunderstanding and misconceit which otherwise might be taken against the House of Commons upon refusall of the propounded addition It is necessary to State the question rightly and to set down the true difference between your Lordships and us Now indeed there is no difference or question between your Lordships and us concerning this additional clause in the nature and quality of a proposition For so considered we say it is most true and to be received and imbraced by us In toto qualibet parte qualibet syllaba yea and were that the question we should add to this addition and instead of due regard say we have had have and ever will have a special and singular regard where to leave entire Sovereign power were to intimate as if we had first cropt it and then left it but our regard was to acknowledge and confess it sincerely and to maintain it constantly even to the hazard of our goods and lives if need be To which purpose your Lordships may be pleased to remember that strict oath every Member of our House hath taken this very session in these words I A. B. do utterly testifie and declare in my Conscience that the Kings highness is the Supreme or Sovereign Governour of this Realm in all Causes c. and to my utmost power will assist and defend all Iurisdictions Priviledges Preheminencies and Authorities granted or belonging to the Kings Highness or united or annexed to the Impâ—rial Crown of this Realm c. So that your Lordships need not to borrow from our protestations any exhortations to us to entertain a writing in assistance of the Kings Sovereign power since we stand obliged by the most Sacred bond of a solemn Oath to assist and defend the same if cause or occasion so required So that the onely question between your Lordships and us is whether this clause should be added to our Petition and received into it as part thereof which to do your Lordships reasons
Crown and People neither over-shadowing the one or oppressing the other Before your Throne like the twelve Lyons under Solomon's Throne sit the Lights of Justice your grave Iudges and Sages of the Law learned and just as many Ages have known and learning justice by your example Our Lawes as excellent as they are I am sure no humane Lawes excell them nor could so well suite with the constitution of this People were they in the power of corrupt or ignorant men I know not which were worse for one will perhaps oftner erre then the other bribe Justice could never keep her right chanel nor runne cleare as in your Majestie 's reigne it ever hath I must not forget the other Lights the Knights Citizens and Burgesses the Representative of their Estate who although they move lower and at more distance from your royall Person yet I am confident will ever be found constant to the Poles of Love and Loyaltie 'T is a gracious Favour of your Majestie and our former Kings I have often thought on that when both these Houses are humble suitors for any thing they are never denyed Le Roy s' aviserà The King will advise of it is the greatest denyall And I assure my self your Majestie shall finde all your Subjects so full of dutie to your Crown and of true and loyall affection to your royall Person that you shall never have cause to think your gracious Favours ill bestowed on them The Union of Hearts Sir is a greatnesse beyond that of the Kingdome to which you are Heire Et penitus toto divisos orbe Britannos it is a Name of advantage to this Island if the Division be not amongst our selves which the God of Unitie for his mercies sake forbid and so knit our Hearts in love one to another and all of us in duty and loyalty to your most excellent Majestie that this renowned Island perish not by our Distractions but may ever flourish and be like Ierusalem the Citie of God where his Name may â—e for ever honoured Great and glorious have been the Actions of your royal Predecessours yet greater remaine for your Majestie and most of theirs attend you for their perfection The first Christian King of Europe the first that abated the swelling pride of Rome by banishing his usurped power and God's true Vice-gerent the first that established the true Religion now profest were all Kings of England and the last a young one Queen Elizabeth was a woman yet Spaine hath cause to remember her the Protestants of France and the Low-Countries will never forget her And were Henry the Great alive he would say That in requitall of the love of this Kingdome shewed him he hath sent us one of his owne Loynes your royall Consort our most gracious Queen to propagate these blessings to us and our posteritie for ever Your royall Father of ever blessed and famous memorie had a Reigne like Solomon's for Religion no man knew more a lustre or advantage to him this Age shall deliver it to the next and all Ages shall see it in his Kingly Workes But while under his glorious Reigne we abode in peace and plenty our hands had forgot to warre and our fingers to fight till at last by your Princely mediation upon the humble suite of both these Houses the two Treaties were dissolved and a foundation laid for your Majestie to restore us to our antient and Military honour which I doubt not will quickly be Eritis sicut Dii was the Serpent's Counsell and ruined Mankinde nor is it fit for private men much lesse for me to search into the Counsells or Actions of Kings Onely Sir give me leave from an heart full of zeale to your glorie and greatnesse to say to your Majestie the Times require you Religion calls upon you to goe on with that Kingly Courage you have begunne till the state of Christendome be settled in the right Balance again We see how the Eagle spreads his wings in Germany reaching with his talons as farre as the Sound and Baltick sea Denmark and Sweden in danger of utter ruine by seizing the Electorates the choice of the Empire invested in a manner solely in the House of Austria Our Religion in France and every where never so neare a period And we know who it is for whom all this works he of whom the boast is made Allà qui Monarâ—ui nasciendo d'el monendo who by the ruine of us and our Religion will make a new Zodiack and draw an Ecliptick line through the East and West Indies But he that sits on high will in his good time laugh them to scorne and as that wise Woman said to King David God will make to my Lord the King a sure house if my Lord shall continue to fight the battels of Iehovah and let all England say Amen I have presumed too farre upon your royall Patience and therefore I will conclude with a few words for them that sent me who are humble suitours to your excellent Majestie First for our better attending the publick and important services that our selves and our necessary Attendants may be free both in our persons and goods from all arrests and troubles according to our ancient priviledge and immunities Next that since that in all great Councells where difference of opinion is truth is best discovered by free debates your Majestie according to our like ancient use and priviledge will be graciously pleased to allow us liberty and freedome of speech and I assure my self we shall not passe the latitude of duty and discretion That upon all occurrences of moment fit for resort to your owne person your Majestie upon humble suit at your best leisure will vouchsafe us accesse to your royall person And lastly that all our proceedings being lodged in your royall heart with belief of our zeal and loyalty we may reap the fruits of it by your Majestie 's gracious and favourable interpretation One word more I humbly begg for my self That though it be the beginning of a Parliament I may now and ever enjoy your Majestie 's most gracious and generall free Pardon The Lord Keeper Coventry's second Reply M r. Speaker HIs Majestie with no lesse content then attention hath heard your learned Discourse he observes your beginning with his gracious incouragement and advice not forsaking your humble modestie but adding to it thankfulnesse alacrity and joy of heart a just and right temper He observes you derive these aright first from the Throne in heaven he lookes thither with you and joynes in prayer that both you and all this Assemblie by that Divine hand and power be moulded and procured for the honour safety and good of the Church and Kingdome Next you apply your self to the Throne on earth his Majestie doth graciously accept your protestations of the truth of your heart the fulnesse of your zeale and duty to his Majestie and the Publick he believes it and that not in you alone but in all this
which are excluded by the word liber for the generall Law of the Land doth allow their Lords to imprison them at pleasure without cause wherein they only differ from the Free-men in respect of their persons who cannot be imprisoned without a cause And that this is the true understanding of those words per legem terrae will more plainly appear by divers other Statutes that I shall use which do expound the same accordingly And although the words of this Grand Charter be spoken in the third person yet they are to be understood of Suites betwixt partie and partie at least not of them alone but even of the Kings Suites against his Subjects as will appear by the occasion of the getting of that Charter which was by reason of the differences betwixt those Kings and their people and therefore properlie to be applyed to their power over them and not to ordinarie questions 'twixt Subject and Subject The words per legale judicium parium suorum immediately precedeing the other per legem terrae are meant of trialls at the Kings Suit and not at the prosecution of a Subject And therefore if a Peer of the Realm be arraigned at the Suit of the King upon any Indictment of Murther he shall be tried by his Peeres that is Nobles But if he be appealed of Murther by a Subject his triall shall be by an ordinarie Jury of 12 Free-holders as appeareth in 10. Edw. 4. It is said such is the meaning of Magna Charta By the same reason therefore as per judicium parium suorum extends to the Kings Suit so shall these words per legem terrae And in 8. E. 2. Rot. Parliam num 7. there is a Petition that a Writ made under the Privie Seal went to the Guardians of the Great Seal to cause lands to be seized into the Kings hands by force of which there went a Writ out of the Chauncery to the Exchequer to seize against the forme of the Grand Charter That the King or his Ministers shall out-law no man of Free-hold without reasonable Judgement And the partie was restored to his land Which sheweth the Statute did extend to the King There was no invasion upon this personall liberty till the time of King Edw. the 3. which was soon restrained by the Subject For in the 5. E. 3. cap. 9. it is ordained in these words It is enacted that no man from henceforth shall be attached by any accusation nor forejudged of life or limbe nor his lands tenements goods nor cattells seized into the Kings hands against the forme of the great Charter And the Law of the Land 25. E. 3. cap. 4. is more full and doth expound the words of the Grand Charter and it is thus Whereas it is contained in the great Charter of the Franchises of England That no Free-man be imprisoned or put out of his Free-hold nor of his Franchise nor Free Custome unlesse it be by the Law of the Land it is accorded assented and established that from henceforth none shall be taken by petition or suggestion made unto our Lord the King or to his Councell unlesse it be by indictment or presentment of his good and lawfull people of the same neighbourhood where such deeds be done in due manner or by processe made by Writ originall at the Common Law nor that none be out of his Franchises or of his Free-hold unlesse he be duely brought into answer and forejudged of the same by course of Law and if any thing be done against the same it shall be redressed and held for null Out of this Statute I observe that what in Magna Charta and the Preamble of this Statute is termed by the Law of the Land is in the body of this Act expounded to be by processe made by Writ originall at the Common Law which is a plain interpretation of the words Law of the Land in the grand Charter Andâ— I note that this Law was made upon the commitment of divers to the Tower no man yet knoweth for what The 28. E. 3. is yet more direct this Libertie being followed with fresh suite by the Subject where the words are not many but very full and significant That no man of what estate or condition he be shall be put out of his lands or Tenement nor taken nor imprisoned nor disinherited nor put to death without he be brought into answer by due processe of the Law Here your Lordships see the usuall words of the Law of the Land are rendered by due processe of the Law 36. E. 3. Rot. Parliam num 9. amongst the Petitions of the Commons one of them being translated into English out of the French is thus First that the great Charter and the Charter of the Forrest and the other Statutes made in his time and the time of his Progenitours for the profit of him and his Commonaltie be well and firmly kept and put in due execution without putting disturbance or making arrest contrarie to them by speciall command or in any other The answer to the Petition which makes it an Act of Parliament is Our Lord the King by the assent of the Prelates Dukes Earles Barons and the Commonaltie hath ordained and established that the said Charters and Statutes be held and put in execution according to the said Petition which is that no arrest should be made contrarie to the Statutes by speciall command This concludes the Question and is of as great force as if it were printed For the Parliament Roll is the true warrant of an Act and many are omitted out of the books that are extant 36. E. 3. Rot. Parliament num 20. explaineth it further for there the Petition is Whereas it is contained in the Grand Charter and other Statutes that none be taken or imprisoned by speciall command without indictment or other due processe to be made by the Law yet oftentimes it hath been and still is that many are hindred taken and imprisoned without indictment or other processe made by the Law upon them as well of things done out of the Forrest of the King as for other things That it would therefore please our said Lord to command those to be delivered which are so taken by speciall Command against the forme of the Charters and Statutes aforesaid The answer is The King is pleased if any man find himself grieved that he come and make his complaint and right shall be done unto him 37. E. 3. cap. 18. agreeth in substance when it saith Though that it be contained in the great Charter that no man be imprisoned nor put out of his Freehold without processe of the Law neverthelesse divers people make false suggestions to the King himself as well for malice as otherwise whereat the King is often grievâ—d and divers of the Realme put in damage against the forme of the said Charter Wherefore it is ordained that all they which make such suggestions be sent with the suggestions before the Chauncellour Treasurer and the
appellatus est habet Literas Regis Vic. Northampton quod ponatur per ballium Clauss anno quinto E. 1. M. 1. Mandat est Galfrido de Nevill Justic. Forrest ultra Trent quod si Walter de Le Greve capt detent in prisona de Nott. pro transgressione forrest invenerit sibi 12 probos legales homines c. qui eum manucapiunt c. ad stand inde rect secundum Ass. Forr. Regis tunc ipsum Walterum praedict 12 traditur in ballium sicut praedict est dat 16. die Novembris Mem. 2. Thomas de Vpwell Iul. uxor ejus capti detenti in prisona de VVynbatesham pro morte Stephani Soutbell unde rectati sunt habent Litteras Vicecom Norff. quod ponatur per ballium dat apud Rochelan vicesimo octavo die Septembris Clauss anno 6. E. 1. Num. 2. Bitheries Pesle captus detentus in prisona Regis de Norwich promorte Iulian quondam ux suae unde rectatus est habet Literas Vicecomiti Norfolciae quod ponatur per ballium Teste Rege apud Westmonasterium duodecimo die Novembris M. 4. Mandat est Vicecomiti Notting scilicet quod Thomas de Cadurte rectat de transgressione forr quam fecisse dicebatur in forresta de Sherwood invenerit sibi sex probos legales homines de balliva sua qui eum manucapiunt habere coram Râ—ge ad mandat Reg. ad stand rect coram Rege cum Rex inde cum eum loqui voluerit tunc praedict Thomas sex hominibus traditur in ballium juxta manucapt supra dict dat decimo quinto die Decembris M. 4. Thomas Burell captus detentus in prisona Regis Exon pro morte Galfridi Geffard unde rectatus est habet Literas vicecomiti Devon quod ponatur per ballium Clauss anno primo Edw. 2. Membr 1. Iohannes Brun de Rollenwrith captus detentus in prisona Regis Oxon. pro morte Iohannis de Sutton unde rectatus est habet Literas Regis Vicecomiti Oxon. quod ponatur per ballium usque ad primam Ass. si ea occasione c. Teste Rege apud Bristoll 28 die Iunii M. 2. Will. Spore Capellanus captus detentus in prisona Regis Exon. pro morte Iohannis Spore unde indictatus est habet Literas Regis Vicecomiti Devon quod ponatur per ballium usque ad primam Assisam si ea occasione c. Teste Rege apud Wynds 28 die Maii. Numero 10. Gilbertus Fairchild captus detentus in Gaola Regis Dorcestr pro morte Henriâ— de Langten molendinarii unde indictatus est habet Literas quod ponatur per ballium usque ad primam Assisam T. Rege apud Westm. 28 die Februarii Clauss anno 2. E. 2. M. 1. Willielmus Sandre de Cobeham captus detentus in prisona Regis Cant. pro morte Iohannis de sprincke Iohannis Ermond de Dunberke unde rectatus est habet Literas Vicecancellario quod ponatur per ballium usque ad primam Assisam si ea occasione c. Teste Rege apud Cestr. vicessimo octavo die Iunii Radulphus Cosyn captus detentus in Gaola Regis Lanc. pro morte Will. filius Simonis Le Porter unde rectatus est habet Literas Regis Vic. Lanc. quod ponatur per ballium usque ad primum Assisam si ea occasione c. Teste Rege apud Shene tertio die Iunii M. 7. Iohannes de Githerd captus detentus in prisona Regis Eborac promorte Matth. Sampson de Eborac unde rectatus est habet Literas Regis vicecomiti Ebor. quod traditur per ballium usque ad primam Assisam dat apud Langele quinto die Aprilis Clauss anno tertio Edw. 2. M. 3. Adam le Pepper captus detentus in Gaola Regis Ebor. pro morte Henrici Le Sumer de Estricke unde rectatus est habet Literas Regis Vicecomiti Ebor. quod ponatur per ballium usque ad primam Assisam Teste Rege apud Westm. septimo die Februarii Deponend in ballium N. 14. Margaret uxor Willielmi Calbot capta detenta in Gaola Regis Norwici pro morte Agnet filiae Willielmi Calbot Maltidae sororis ejusdem Agnetis unde rectata est habet Literas Regis Vicecomiti Norfolciae quod ponatur per ballium T. Rege apud Shene 22. die Ianuarii N. 16. Iohannes Frere captus detentus in Goala Regis Exon. pro morte Ade de Egolegh unde rectatus est habet Literas Regis Vicecomiti Devon quod ponatur per ballium Teste Rege apud Westm. septimo die Decembris Clauss anno 4. E. 2. M. 7. Robertus Sheren captus detentus in Gaola Regis de Colchester promorte Roberti Le Maigne unde rectatus est habet Literas Regis Vicecomiti Essex quod ponatur per ballium usque ad primam Assisam dat 22 die Maii. M. 8. Willielmus filius Roberti Le Fâ—shere de Shirbourne captus detentus in Goala Regis Ebor. pro morte Roberti Le Monnez de Norton unde rectatus est habet Literas Regis Vicecomiti Ebor quod ponatur per ballium usque ad primam Assisam dat 25 die Aprilis Clauss anno 4. Edw. 2. N. 22. Thomas Ellis de Stamford captus detentus in prisona Regis Lincoln pro morte Mich. filii Willielmi de Foddering unde rectatus est habet Literas Regis Vicecomiti Lincoln quod ponatur per ballium usque ad primam Assisam Teste rege apud novum Monasterium octavo die Septembris The Argument which by command of the House of Commons was made at their first conference with the Lords touching the Liberty of the person of every Free-man out of Presidents of Record and Resolutions of Judges in former times by M r Selden My Lords YOur Lordships have heard from the Gentleman that last spake a great part of the grounds upon which the House of Commons after mature deliberation proceeded to that cleer resolution touching the right of Liberty of their persons The many Acts of Parliament which are the written Lawes of the Land and are expresly in the point have been read and opened and such objections as have been by some made to them and some other objections also made out of other Acts of Parliament have been cleerly answered It may seem now perhaps my Lords that little remaines needfull to be further added for the enforcement and maintenance of so fundamentall and established a right and liberty belonging to every Freeman of the Kingdome But in the examination of Questions of Law or Right besides the Lawes or Acts of Parliament that ought chiefly to regulate and direct every mans judgement whatsoever hath been put in practise to the contrarie there are commonly also used former Judgements or Presidents and they indeed have been so used sometimes that the weight of Reason of Law and Acts of Parliament hath been said by and resolutions have
been made and that in this very point only upon the interpretation and apprehension of Presidents But Presidents my Lords are good media or proofs of illustration or confirmation when they agree with the expresse Law but they can never be proof enough to overthrow any one Law much lesse seven severall Acts of Parliament as the number of them is for this point The House of Commons therefore taking into consideration that in this Question being of so high a nature that never any exceeded it in any Court of Justice whatsoever all the severall wayes of just examination of the truth should be used have also most carefully informed themselves of all former Judgements or Presidents concerning this great point either way and have been no lesse carefull of the due preservation of his Majesties just Prerogative then of their own Rights The Presidents here are of two kinds either meerly matter of Record or else the former resolutions of Judges after solemn debate in the point This part that concernes the Presidents the House of Commons have commanded me to present to your Lordships which I shall as briefly as I may so I shall do it also faithfully and perspicuously To that end my Lords before I come to the particulars of any of these Presidents I shall first remember to your Lordships that which serves as a generall key for the opening and true apprehension of all them of Record without which key no man unlesse he be verst in the Entries and Court of the King's Bench can possibly understand them In all cases my Lords where any right or Liberty belongs to the Subject by any positive Law written or unwritten if there were not also a remedy by Law for the enjoying or regaining of this right or Libertie when it is violated or taken from him the positive Law were in vain and to no purpose were it for any man to have right in any land or other Inheritance if there were not a known remedy that is an Action or Writ by which in so me court of ordinary Justice he might recover it And in this case of right of Liberty of the Person if there were not a remedy in the Law for regaining it when it is restrained it were to no purpose to speak of Lawes that ordain it should not be restrained Therefore in this case also I shall first observe the remedy that every Free-man is to use for the regaining of his Liberty when he is against Law imprisoned that so upon the legall course and form to be held in using that remedy the Presidents or Judgements upon it for all Presidents of Record rise out of this Remedy may be easily understood There are in the the Law divers remedies for enlargement of a Freeman imprisoned as the Writs of odio atia and of homine replegiando besides the common and most known Writ of habeas Corpus or Corpus cum causa as it is called also The first two are Writs to be directed to the Sheriff of the Countie and lye only in some particular cases with which it would be untimely for me to trouble your Lordships because they concern not that which is committed to my charge But that Writ of habeas Corpus or Corpus cum causa is the highest remedy in Law for him that is imprisoned by the speciall command of the King or of the Lords of the Councell without shewing cause of the commitment Neither is there any such thing in the Lawes of this Land as a Petition of Right to be used in such cases for the Liberty of the person nor is there any other legall Course to be taken for enlargement in such cases howsoever the contrary hath upon no ground or colour of Law been pretended Now my Lords if any man be so imprisoned by any such command or otherwise in any prison whatsoever through England and desire either by himself or any other in his behalf this Writ of habeas Corpus for the purpose in the Court of King's Bench the Writ is to be granted to him and ought not to be denied him no otherwise then any ordinary originall Writ in the Chauncery or other common processe of Law may be denyed Which amongst other things the House of Commons hath resolved also upon mature deliberation and I was commanded to let your Lordships know so much This Writ is to be directed to the Keeper of the Prison in whose custody the Prisoner remaines commanding him that at a certain day he bring in the body of the Prisoner ad subjiciendum recipiendum juxta quod Curia consider aver it una cum causa captionis detentionis and oftentimes una cum causa detentionis only captionis being omitted The Keeper of the Prison thereupon returnes by what Warrant he detaines the Prisoner and with his Return filed to his Writ brings the Prisoner to the Barre at the time appointed When the Return is thus made the Court judgeth of the sufficiency or insufficiency of it only out of the body of it without having respect to any other thing whatsoever that is they are to suppose the Return to be true whatsoever it be For if it be false the party may have his remedy by action on the case against the Gaoler that brings him Now my Lords when this Prisoner comes thus to the Barre if he desires to be bailed and that the Court upon view of the Return think him in Law to be bailed then he is alwayes first taken from the Keeper of the Prison that brings him and committed to the Marshall of the Kings Bench and afterwards bailed and the Entrie perpetually is Commiâ—titur Marr. postea traditur in ballium For the Court never bailes any man untill he becomes their own Prisoner and be in custodia Marescalli of that Court. But if upon return of the habeas Corpus it appears to the Court that the Prisoner ought not to be bailed nor discharged from the Prison whence he is brought then he is remanded or sent back again there to remain untill by Course of Law he may be delivered And the Entrie in such case is Remittitur quousque secundum legem deliberatus fuerit or Remittitur quousque c. which is all one and is the highest award or Judgement that ever was or can be given upon a habeas Corpus But if the Judges doubt only whether in Law they ought to take him from the prison whence he came or give daie to the Sheriff to amend his Return as often they do then they remand him only during the time of their debate or untill the Sheriff hath amended his Return and the Entrie upon it is Remittitur only or Remittitur prisonae predict without any more And so remittitur generally is of farre lesse moment in the award upon the habeas Corpus then remittitur quousque howsoever vulgar opinions raised out of the fame of the late Judgement be to the contrary All these things are of most known
been committed to the Gate-house by divers Lords of the Privy Councell Qui committitur Marr. posteaisto Termino traditur in ballium To this it hath been said by some that Beckwith was bailed upon a Letter written by the Lords of the Councell to that purpose to the Judges But it appeares not that there was ever any letter written to them to that purpose which though it had been would have proved nothing against the authority of the Record For it was never before heard of that Judges were to be directed in point of Law by letters from the Lords of the Councell although it cannot be doubted but that by such letters sometimes they have been moved to baile men that would not or did not ask their enlargement without such letters as in some examples that I shall shew your Lordships among the Presidents of the second kind The twelfth and last of these is that of S r Thomas Mounson's It is Mich. 14. Iacobi Rot. 147. He was committed to the Tower per warrantum à diversis Dominis de privato Concilio Domini Regis Locum-tenensi directum and was returned by the Lieutenant to be therefore detained in prison Qui committitur Marr. super hoc traditur in ballium To this it hath been answered That every body knew by common fame that this Gentleman was committed for suspicion of the death of S r Thomas Overbury and that he was therefore bailable A most strange interpretation as if the Body of the Return and the Warrant of the Privie Councell should be understood and adjudged out of fame only Was there not as much a fame why the Gentlemen that were remanded in the late Judgement were committed and might not the self-same reason have served to enlarge them their offence if any were being I think much lesse then that for which this Gentleman was suspected And thus I have faithfully opened the number of twelve Presidents most expresse in the very point in question and cleered the Objections that have been made against them And of such Presidents of Record as are of the first kind or prove plainly the practise of former Ages and Judgements of the Court of the Kings Bench in the very point in behalf of the Subjects my Lords hitherto I come next to those of the second kind or such as have been pretended to prove that persons so committed are not to be enlarged by the Judges upon the habeas Corpus but ought to remain in Prison still at the pleasure of the King or of the Privie Councell These are of two natures The first are those wherein some assent of the King or the Privie Councell appeares upon the enlargement of a Prisoner so committed as if that because their assent appeares therefore the enlargement could not have been without such assent The second of this kind are those which have been used as expresse Testimonies of the Judges denying Baile And in such cases I shall open this also to your Lordships which being done it will most cleerly appeare that there is nothing at all in any of these that make any thing against the Resolution of the House of Commons touching this point Nay they are so farre from making any thing against it that some of them adde good weight also to the proof of that Resolution For those of the first nature of this second kind of Presidents they begin in the time of H. 7. Thomas Brugge and divers others were imprisoned in the Kings Bench ad mandatum Domini Regis They never sought remedy by habeas Corpus or otherwise for ought appeares but the Roll sayes Dominus Rex relaxavit mandatum and so they were bailed But can any man think that this is an Argument either in Law or common Reason that therefore they could not have been bailed without such assent It is common in the Cases of common persons that one being in Prison for surety of the peace or the like at the Suit of another is bailed upon the release of the party plaintiff Can it follow that therefore he could not have been bailed without such a release Nothing is more plain then the contrary It were the same thing to say that if it appear that a plaintiffe be non suit therefore unlesse he had been non-suit he could not have been barred in the Suit The Case last cited is M. 7. H. 7. Rot. 6. The very like is in the same year Hill 7. H. 7. Rot. 13. the Case of William Bartholmew Williams Case and divers others And the self-same answer that is given to the other cleeres this So in the same year Pasche 7. H. 7. Rot. 18. Iohn Beaumond's Case is the same in substance with those other two and the self same answer also satisfies that cleeres them The next is Mich. 12. H. 7. Rot. 18. Thomas Yewe's Case He was committed ad securitatem pacis for surety of the Peace at the suit of one Freeman and besides ad mandatum Domini Regis And first Freeman relaxavit securitatem pacis and then S r Iames Hubbard the then Kings Attorney generall relaxavit Domini Regis mandatum and hereupon he is bailed The release of the Kings Attorney no more proves that he could not have been enlarged without such release or assent then that he could not have been bailed without the release of surety of the Peace by Freeman The very like is in Hill 9. H. 7. Rot. 14. the Case of Humphry Batch which proves no more here then the rest of this kind already cited Then for this part also Broome's Case of Queen Elizabeth's time hath been cited The Case is thus Ter. 39. Eliz. Rot. 118. Lawrence Broom was committed to the Gate-house per mandatum Dominorum Concilii Dominae Reginae and being returned so upon the habeas Corpus is first committed to the Marshalsey as the course is and then bailed by the Court. Which indeed is an expresse President that perhaps might well have been added to the first twelve which so plainly shews the practise of enlarging prisoners in this case by Judgement of the Court upon the habeas Corpus But it is true that in the Scrolls of that yeare where the Bailes are entred but not the Record of the habeas Corpus there is a note that this Broom was bailed per mandatum privati Concilii super habeas Corpus But plainly this is no kind of Argument that therefore in Law he ought not to have been otherwise bailed The self same is to be said of another of this kind in Mich. 40. Eliz. Rot. 37. Wenden's Case Thomas Wenden was committed to the Gate-house by the Queen and Lords of the Councell pro certis causis generally he is brought by habeas Corpus into the Kings Bench and bailed by the Court. But it is said that in the Scrolls of that yeare it appeares that this enlargement was per consensum Dominorum privati Concilii And it is true that the Queene's Majesties Attorney did tell the
Court that the Lords of the Councell did assent to it Followes it therefore that this might not have been by Law done if the parties themselves had desired it So in Trinit primo Iacobi Rot. 30. S r Iohn Brocket being committed to the Gate-house is by habeas Corpus returned to stand committed per mandatum privati Concilii And he is enlarged virtute warranti à Concilio praedicto But the same answer that satisfies for the rest before cited serves for this also The last of these is Reyner's Case in Mich. 12. Iacob Rot. 119. He was committed to the Gate-house by the Lords of the Councell being brought into the Kings Bench by habeas Corpus is enlarged upon Baile But this they say was upon a letter written by the Lords of the Councell to the Judges It is true that such a letter was written but the answer to the former Presidents of this nature are sufficient to cleer this also And in all these observe First That it appeares not the party ever desired to be enlarged by the Court or was denyed it Secondly Letters either of the Councell or from the King cannot alter the Law in any case So that hitherto nothing that hath been brought for the contrarie part hath any force or colour of Reason in it We come now my Lords to those Presidents of the other nature cited against this Liberty of the Subject that is such as have been used to justify that persons so committed may not be enlarged by the Court. They are in number eight but there is not one of them all proves any such thing as your Lordships will plainly see upon the opening of them The first foure of them are exactly in the same words saving that the names of the Persons and the Prisons differ I shall therefore cite them all one after another and then cleer them together The first is Richard Everard's Case Hill 7. H. 7. Rot. 18. He and others were committed to the Marshalsey of the Houshold per mandatum Domini Regis and so returned upon an habeas Corpus in the Kings Bench. whereupon the Entrie is only Qui committitur Marescallo c. The second is Hill 8. H. 7. Rot. 12. Richard Cherrye's Case He was committed to the Major of Windsor per mandatum Domini Regis and so returned upon an habeas Corpus and the Entrie is only Qui committitur Maresc c. The third is Hill 9. H. 7. Rot. 14. Christopher Burton's Case who was committed to the Marshalsey of the Houshold per mandatum Domini Regis and so returned upon his habeas Corpus and the Entrie is likewise Qui committitur Marescallo c. The fourth is George Urswick's Caâ—e Pasche 19. H. 7. Rot. 23. He was committed to the Sheriffs of London per mandatum Domini Regis and returned so upon the habeas Corpus Qui committitur Maresc These 4 have been used principally as expresse Presidents to prove that a Prisoner so committed cannot be enlarged And perhaps at the first sight by men that know not or observe not the course and Entries of the Court of Kings Bench they may be apprehended to prove as much But in truth they rather prove the contrarie at least there is no such colour in thâ—m of any such matter as they have been used for To which purpose I beseech your Lordships to call to your memories that which I first observed to you touching the course of that Court where a Prisoner is brought in by habeas Corpus He is if he be not to be remanded first committed to the Marshall of that Court and then bailed as his Case requires that is so certain as it can never be otherwise Now these men being thus committed by the expresse Command of the King are first you see taken from the Prisons where first they were committed Wherein you may observe by the way my Lords that if a generall supposition of matter of State were of force in such a case it might be as needfull for point of State to have the Prisoners remain in prison where the King by such an absolute Command committed them as to have them at all committed When they have taken them from the Prisons where before they were they commit them to the Marshall of their own Court which is but the first step to bailing them Now it appeares not indeed that they were bailed for then traditur in ballium had followed but nothing at all appeares that they were denied it perhaps they never asked it perhaps they could not find such as were sufficient to bail them And in truth whensoever any man is but removed from any Prison in England though it be for debt or trespasse only into that Court the Entrie is but in the self-same syllables as in these 4 Cases And in truth if these Presidents did prove that any of the Prisoners named in them were not bailable or had been thought by the Court to have been not bailable it will necessarily follow that no man living that is ordinarily removed from any other Prison into the Kings Bench or that is there upon an ordinary action of debt or action of trespasse could be bailed For every man that is brought thither and not remanded and every man that is but arrested for debt or trespasse and not returned into that Court is likewise committed to the Marshall of that Court and by the self-same Entry and no otherwise Yet these 4 have been much stood on and have strangely misled the judgement of some that either did not or would seem not to understand the course of the Court. The fifth of this nature is Edward Page's Case It is Trinit 7. H. 8. Rot. 23. This might have been well reckoned with the former 4. had not the mis-entrie only of the Clark made it varie from them Edw. Page was committed to the Marshalsey of the Houshold and that per mandatum Domini Regis and returned to be therefore detained and the Entrie is Qui committitur Marr. hospitii Domini Regis And this word Marr. is written in the Margent of the Roll. This hath been also used to prove that the Judges did remand this Prisoner If they had done so the remanding had been only while they advised and not any such award which is given when they adjudge him not bailable But in truth the word Committitur shewes that it was not any remanding of him Nor doth that Court ever commit any man to the Marshalsey of the Houshold And besides the word Marr. for Marescallo in the margent shewes plainly that he was committed to the Marshall of the Kings Bench and not remanded to the Marshalsey of the Houshold For such Entrie of that word in the Margent is perpetually in cases of that nature when they commit a man to their own prison and so give him the first step to bailment which he may have if he ask it and can find baile And doubtlesse those words of hospitii predict were added
per speciale mandatum Domini Regis ideo predicutus Johannes remittitur prefato Custodi Marr. hospitii predict salvo custodiend quousque c. that is quousque secundum legem deliberatus fuerit And if that Court which is the highest for ordinary Justice cannot deliver him secundum legem what Law is there I beseech you my Lords that can be sought for in any other inferiour Court to deliver him Now my Lords because this draught if it were entred in the Roll as it was prepared for no other purpose would be a great declaration contrary to the many Acts of Parliament already cited contrary to all Presidents of former times and to all reason of Law to the utter subversion of the chiefest Liberty and Right belonging to every Free-man of the Kingdome and for that especially also it supposeth that divers ancient Records had been looked into by the Court in like Cases by which Records their Judgements were directed whereas in truth there is not one Record at all extant that with any colour not so much indeed as with any colour warrants the Judgement therefore the House of Commons thought fit also that I should with the rest that hath been said shew this draught also to your Lordships I come now to the other kind of Presidents that is solemn Resolutions of Judges which being not of Record remain only in authentick Copies But of this kind there is but one in this Case that is a resolution of all the Judges in England in the time of Queen Elizabeth It was in the foure and thirtieth yeare of her reign when divers persons had been committed by absolute command and delivered by the Justices of one Bench or the other whereupon it was desired that the Judges would declare in what Cases persons committed by such Command were to be enlarged by them The resolution hath been variously cited and variously apprehended The House of Commons therefore desiring with all care to enforme themselves as fully of the truth of it as possibly they might got into their hands from a member of their House a book of selected Cases collected by a learned and reverend Chief Justice of the Common Pleas that was one of them that gave the Resolution which is entred at large in that book I mean the Lord Chief Justice Anderson It is written in that book in his own hand as the rest of the book is And however it hath been cited and was cited in that great Judgement given upon the habeas Corpus in the King's Bench as if it had been that upon such commitments the Judges might not baile the prisoners yet it is most plain that in the resolution it self no such thing is contained but rather expresly the contrary I shall better represent it to your Lordships by reading it then by opening it Then it was read If this Resolution doth resolve any thing it doth indeed upon the matter resolve fully the contrary to that which hath been pretended and enough for the maintenance of this ancient and fundamentall point of Liberty of the Person to be regained by habeas Corpus when any man is imprisoned And I the rather thought fit now to read it to your Lordships that it might be at large heard because in the great Judgement in the Kings Bench though it were cited at the Barre as against this point of personall Libertie as also at the Bench yet though every thing else of Record that was used was at large read openly this was not read either at Barre or Bench. For indeed if it had every hearer would easily have known the force of it to have been indeed contrary to the Judgement My Lords having thus gone through the Charge committed to me by the House of Commons and having thus mentioned to your Lordships and opened the many Presidents of Record and that draught of the Judgement in the like Case as also the Resolution I shall now as I had leave and direction given me least your Lordships should be put to too much trouble and expense of time in the finding or getting Copies at large of these things which I have cited offer also to your Lordships authentick Copies of them all and so leave them and whatsoever else I have said to your Lordships further consideration The whole Copies of the Presidents of Record mentioned in one of the Arguments made at the first Conference with the Lords touching the Liberty of the Person of every Free-man INter Recorda Domini Regis Caroli in Thesaurario Receptus Scaccarii sui sub custodia Dom. Thesaurarii Camerarii ibidem remanentia viz. Placita coram Domino Rege apud Westmonasterium de Termino Paschae anno Regis E. 3. post conquestum Angliae 15. inter alia sic continetur ut sequitur Adhuc de Termino Paschae London sc. Dominus Rex mandavit dilecto fideli suo Roberto de Dalton Constabulario Turris suae London vel ejus locum-tenenti breve suum in haec verba Edwardus Deigratia Angliae Franâ—iae Rex Dominus Hiberniae dilecto fideli suo Roberto de Dalton Constabulario Turris suae London vel ejus locum-tenenti salutem Mandamus vobis quod Iohannem de Bildeston Cappellanum quem vicecomites nostri London ad mandatum nostrum apud praedictam Turrim vobis liberabunt ab eisdem recipiatis in prisona nostra Turri praedicta custodiri faciatis quousque aliud vobis super hoc duxerimus de mandato Teste me ip so apud Turrim nostram London trigesimo die Martii anno Regni nostri Angliae sextodecimo Regni vero nostri Franciae tertio Et modo scilicet in Craft Ascension Dom. anno Reg. nunc 18. coram Domino Rege apud Westm. venit Iohannes de Wyndwick locum-tenens praedicti Constabularii adduxit coram Justiciarios hic in Curia praedicta Iohannem de Bildeston quem alias à praefatis vicecomitibus virtute brevis praedicti recipit c. Et dicit quod ipse à Domino Rege habuit in mandatis ducendi liberandi Corpus ipsius Iohannis de Bildeston praefat Justic. hic c. Et quaesitum est à praedicto Iohanne Wyndwick si quam aliam detentionis praefat Iohannis de Bildeston habeat causam Qui dicit quod non nisi breve praedict tantum Et quia videtur Curiae breve praedict sufficientem non esse causam praedict Iohannem de Bildeston in prisona Marescall Reg. hic retinend c. idem Iohannes dimittitur per manucaptionem Willielmi de Wakefield Rectoris Ecclesiae de Willingham Iohannis de Wyndwick de com Lancaster Iohannis de Lakenham Iohannis de Norton de com Norsolciae Nicolai de Wandesford de com Midd. Rogeri de Bromley de com Staff qui eum manuceperunt habendi eum coram Domino Rege in Octabis sanctae Trinitatis ubicunque c. viz. corpora pro corpore Ad quas Octab. sanct Trinit coram Domino Rege apud Westm. venit praedict
a Prophet prayed to Almighty God against dissimulation in these words Lord send me a sound heart in thy statutes that I be not ashamed where found in the originall signifieth upright without dissimulation and shame followeth dissimulation when the truth is known Third object If a Rebell be attainted in Ireland and his children for fafety and for matter of state be kept in the Tower what shall be returned upon the Habeas Corpus Whereunto It was answered First that their imprisonment might be justified if they could not find good sureties for their good behaviour Secondly It was charity to find them meat drink and apparell that by the Attainder of their father had nothing Fourth object Though his Majesty expresseth no cause yet it must be intended that there was a just cause Answ. De non apparentibus de non existentibus eadem ratiâ— Fifth object First The King in stead of gold or silver may make money currant of any base metall Secondly He may make warres at his pleasure Thirdly He may pardon whom he will Fourthly He may make denizens as many as he will and these were said to be greater priviledges then this in question Answ. To the first it is denyed that the King may make money currant of base metal but it ought to be gold or silver Secondly It was answered admitting the King might do itâ— his losse and charge was more then of his Subjects both in the case of money and in the case of warre The pardon was private out of grace and no man had dammage or loss by it so of the making of dâ—nizâ—ns the King was only the looser viz. to have single custome where he had double Thirdly it was a non sequitur The King may do these things ergo he may imprison at will Your Lordships are advised by them that cannot be daunted by fear nor misled by affection reward or hope of preferment that is of the dead By ancient and many Acts of Parliament in the point besides Magna Charta which hath been 30 times confiâ—med and commanded to be put in execution wherein the Kings of England have thirty times given their Royall assent Secondly Judiciall Presidents per vividas rationes manifest and apparant reasons we in the house of Commons have upon great studie and serious consideration made a grand manifesto unanimously nullo contradicente concerning this great Liberty of the subject and have vindicated and recovered the body of this fundamentall Liberty both of your Lordships of our selves from shadowes which some time of the day are long sometimes short and sometimes long again and therefore no Judges are to be led by them Your Lordships are involved in the same danger and therefore ex congruo condigno we desire a conference to the end your Lordships might make the like declaration as we have done Commune periculum communerequirit Auxilium and thereupon take such further course as may secure your Lordships and us and all your and our posterities in enjoying of our ancient undoubted and fundamentall Liberties The Argument of Sergeant Bramston upon the Habeas corpus MAy it please your Lordship to hear the return read or shall I open it Chief Iustice Hide Let it be read M r. Keeling read the return being the same as that of Sir Thomas Darnell May it please your Lordship I shall humbly move upon this return in the behalf of Sir Iohn Henningham with whom I am of Councell it is his petition that he may be bailed from his imprisonment it was but in vain for me to move that to a Court of Law which by Law cannot be granted and therefore in that regard that upon his return it will be questioned whether as this return is made the Gent. may be bailed or not I shall humbly offer up to your Lordship the case and some reasons out of mine understanding arising out of the return it self to satisfie your Lordship that these Prisoners may and as their case is ought to be bailed by your Lordship The exception that I take to this return is as well to the matter and substance of the return as to the manner and legall form thereof the exceptions that I take to the matter is in severall respects That the return is too generall there is no sufficient cause shewn in speciall or in generall of the commitment of this Gentleman and as it is insufficient for the cause so also in the time of the first imprisonment for howsoever here doth appear a time upon the second warrant from the Lords of the Councell to detain him still in prison yet by the return no time can appear when he was first imprisoned though it be necessary it should be shewen and if that time appear not there is no cause your Lordship should remand him and consequently he is to be delivered Touching the matter of the return which is the cause of his imprisonment It is expressed to be Per speciale mandatum domini Regis This is too generall and uncertain for that it is not manifest what kind of command this was Touching the Legall form of the return it is not as it ought to be fully and positively the return of the Keeper himself onely but it comes with a significavit or prout that he was committed Per speciale mandatum domini Regis as appeareth by warrant from the Lords of the Councell not of the King himself and that is not good in legall form For the matter and substance of the return it is not good because there ought to be a cause of that imprisonment This writ is the means and the onely means that the subject hath in this and such like case to obtain his liberty there are other writs by which men are delivered from restraint as that de homine replegiando but extends not to this cause for it is particularly excepted in the body of the writ de manucaptione de cantione admittenda but they lie in other cases but the writ of Habeas corpus is the onely means the subject hath to obtain his liberty and the end of this writ is to return the cause of the imprisonment that it may be examined in this Court whether the parties ought to be discharged or not but that cannot be done upon this return for the cause of the imprisonment of this Gentleman at first is so farre from appearing particularly by it that their is no cause at all expressed in it This writ requires that the cause of the imprisonment should be returned if the cause be not specially certified by it yet should it at the last be shewn in generall that it may appear to the Judges of the Court and it must be expressed so farre as that it may appear to be none of those causes for which by the Law of the Kingdome the subject ought not to be imprisoned and it ought to be expressed that it was by presentment or indictment and not upon petition or suggestion
for they are not within this Statute and yet this Court doth it at pleasure But plainly by the Statute it self it appears that it meant only to the common writ for the preamble recites that the Sheriffs and other have taken and kept in prison persons detected of felony and let out to plevin such as were not reprisable to grieve the one party and to the gain of the other and forasmuch as before this time it was not determined what prisoners were reprisable which not but onely in certain cases were expressed therefore it is ordained c. Now this is no more but for direction of the keepers of the prisons for it leaves the matter to the discretion of the Judges whether bailable or no not of the Judges for when the Statute hath declared who are repleviable who are not as men outlawed have abjured the Realm Proves such as be taken in the manner breakers of prisons buâ—ners of houses makers of false money counter feiting of the Kings Seal and the like it is then ordained that if the Sheriff or any other let any go at large by surety that is not reprisable if he be Sheriff Constable or any other that hath the keeping of prisons and thereof be attainted he shall lose his office and fee for ever so that it extends to the common Goalers and keepers of prisons to direct them in what cases they shall let men to bail and in what cases not and that they shall not be Judges to whom to let to replevin and whom to keep in prison but it extends not to the Judges for if the makers of the Statute had meant them in it they should have put a pain upon them also So then I conclude upon these under your Lordships favour that as this case is there should have been a cause of the commitment expressed for these Gentlemen are brought hither by writ ad subjiciendum if they be charged and ad recipiendum if they be not charged and therefore in regard there is no charge against them whereupon they should be detained in prison any longer we desire that they may be bailed or discharged by your Lordship The Argument of Master Selden upon the Habeas corpus My Lords I am of Councell with Sir Edmond Hampden his case is the same with the other two Gentlemen I cannot hope to say much after that that hath been said yet if it shall please your Lordship I shall remember you of so much as is befallen my lot Sir Edmond Hampden is brought hither by a writ of Habeas corpus and the keeper of the Gate-house hath returned upon the writ that Sir Edmond Hampden is detained in prison per speciale mandatum Domini Regis mihi significatum per Warrantum duorum Privati Concilii dicti domini Regis and then he recites the warrants of the Lords of the Councell which is that they do will and require him to detain this Gentleman still in prison letting him know that his first imprisonment c. May it please your Lordship I shall humbly move you that this Gentleman may also be bailed for under favour my Lord there is no cause in the return why he should be any farther imprisoned and restrained of his liberty My Lord I shall say something to the form of the writ and of the return but very little to them both because there is a very little left for me to say My Lord to the form I say it expresseth nothing of the first caption and therefore it is insufficient I will adde one reason as hath been said the Habeas Corpus hath onely these words quod habeas corpus ejus una cum causa detensionis non captionis But my Lord because in all imprisonment there is a cause of caption and detention the caption is to be answered as well as the detention I have seen many writs of this nature and on them the caption is returned that they might see the time of the caption and thereby know whether the party should be delivered or no and that in regard of the length of his imprisonment The next exception I took to the form is that there is much incertainty in it so that no man can tell when the writ came to the keeper of the prison whether before the return or after for it appears not when the Kings command was for the commitment or the signification of the Councell came to him It is true that it appears that the warant was dated the seventh of November but when it came to the keeper of the prison that appears not at all and therefore as for want of mentioning the same time of the caption so for not expressing the same time when this warrant came I think the return is faulty in form and void And for apparent contradiction also the return is insufficient for that part of the return which is before the warrant it is said quod detentus est per speciale mandatum domini Regis the warrant of the Lords of the Councel the very syllables of that warrant are that the Lords of the Councell do will and require him still to detain him which is contrary to the first part of the return Besides my Lord the Lords themselves say in another place and passage of the warrant that the King commanded them to commit him and so it is their commitment so that upon the whole matter there appears to be a clear contradiction in the return and there being a contradiction in the return it is void Now my Lord I will speak a word or two to the matter of the return and that is touching the imprisonment per speciale mandatum domini Regis by the Lords of the Councell without any cause expressed and admitting of any or either of both of these to be the return I think that by the constant and settled Laws of this kingdome without which we have nothing no man can be justly imprisoned be either of them without a cause of the commitment expressed in the return My Lord in both the last Arguments the statutes have been mentioned and fully expressed yet I will adde a little to that which hath been said The statute of Magna Charta cap. 29. that statute if it were fully executed as it ought to be every man would enjoy his liberty better then he doth The Law saith expresly no Free-man shall be imprisoned without due processe of the Law out of the very body of this Act of Parliament besides the explanation of other statutes it appears Nullus liber homo capiatur vel imprisonetur nisi per legem terrae My Lord I know these words legem terrae do leave the question where it was if the interpretation of the Statute were not But I think under your Lordships favour there it must be intended by due course of Law to be either by presentment or by indictment My Lords if the meaning of these words Per legem terrae were but as we use to
say according to the lawes which leaves the matter very uncertain and per speciale mandatum c. be within the meaning of these words according to the law then this Act had done nothing The Act is No Free-man shall be imprisoned but by the law of the land if you will understand these words per legem terrae in the first sense this statute will extend to Villains as well as to Free-men for if I imprison another man Villain the Villain may have an action of false imprisonment But the Lords and the King for then they both had Villains might imprison them and the Villain could have no remedy but these words in the statute per legem terrae were to the Free-man which ought not to be imprisoned but by due processe of law and unlesse the interpretation shall be this the Free-man shall have no priviledge above the Villain So that I conceive my Lord these words per legem terrae must be here so interpreted as in 42 Eliz. the Bill is worth the observing it reciteth that divers persons without any writ or presentment were cast into prison c that it might be enacted that it should not be so done hereafter the answere there is that this is an Article of the great Charter this should be granted so that it seemes the statute is not taken to be an explanation of that of Magna Charta but the very words of the statute of Magna Charta I will conclude with a little observation upon these words nec super eum mittimus which words of themselves signifie not so much a man cannot finde any fit sense for them But my Lord in the seventh year of King Iohn there was a great Charter by which this statute in the ninth of Henry the third whereby we are now regulated was framed and there the words are nec eum in Carcerem mittimus we will not commit him to prison that is the King himself will not and to justifie this there is a story of that time in Matthew Paris and in that Book this Charter of King Iohn is set down at large which Book is very authentique and there it is entred and in the ninth of Henry the third he saith that the statute was renewed in the same words with the Charter of King Iohn and my Lord he might know it better then others for he was the Kings Chronologer in those times and therefore my Lord since there be so many reasons and so many presidents and so many statutes which declare that no Free-man whatsoever ought to be imprisoned but according to the laws of the land and that the liberty of the subject is the highest inheritance that he hath my humble request is that according to the ancient laws and priviledges of this Realm this Gentleman my Client may be bailed The Argument of Master Calthrop upon the Habeas corpus Sir Iohn Corbet being brought to the Kings Bench Bar with Sir Edmond Hampden Sir Walter Earl and Sir Iohn Henningham who were also brought thither by severall writs of Habeas Corpus with the same return I being assigned by the Court of Kings Bench upon a petition delivered to be of Councell with Sir Iohn Corbet did move that Sir Iohn Corbet might be discharged of his imprisonment and put in bail for I did conceive that the return of this Habeas corpus was insufficient both in the matter of the return and in the manner of the return and so there ought not to be a longer detaining of Sir Iohn Corbet in prison for as unto the manner of the return it is not laid down precisely that Sir Iohn Corbet is detained in prison by the speciall commandment of the King signified by the warrant of the Lords of the Councell the which is not a direct affirmation that he is detained by the speciall command of the King but that the Lords of the Councel by their warrant have signified unto him that he was committed and still detained by the speciall command of the King And howsoever the Lords of the Councell had signified that he was detained by the commandment of the King yet it may be he was not detained by the commandment of the King for their signification of the same by warrant may be untrue and the warrant of the Lords of the Councell that is returned in haec verba importeth that the keeper of the Gatehouse rather took upon him to return that was signified unto him by the warrant of the Lords of the Councell that Sir Iohn Corbet was committed and detained by the speciall commandment of the King because if the keeper had taken upon him to affirm it upon his return then needed he not to have returned the warrants of the Lords of the Councell and the warrant it self sheweth that he had onely his information from the Lords of the Councell for their warrant is to let the keeper know that both the first commitment and this direction for the continuing of him in prison were and are by his Majesties speciall commandment and I do not see as this return is made that an accord upon the case can lie upon the keeper of the Gatehouse if S r. Iohn Corbet was not committed nor detained by the special commandment of the King so long as the warrant of the Lords of the Councell be returned as it was made because he doth return the same as the significavit of the Lords by their warrant Register 65. the writ of Excommunication Capiend ' goeth Rex vicecom ' Lincoln S. significavit nob ' venerabilis Pater Henricus Lincolnien sis Episcopus per Literas suas Patentes quod R. suus Parochial ' propter suam manifestaÌ„ cotumac ' authoritate ipsius Episc ordin ' excom ' est nec se vult per censuram Ecclesiasticam justiciar ' c. tibi praecipimus quod praedict ' R. per corpus suum secundum consuetud ' Angliae justic ' c. and yet no man will say that there is an information of the King that R. is excommunicated but onely that the Bishop of Lincoln had signified unto him that R. was excommunicated and in Fitz. Nat. Br. 663. and Register 65. it appears that the form of the writ of Excommunication deliberand ' is Rex Vicecom ' London Salut ' Cum Thom ' Iay allutar ' London qui nuper ad denuntiat venerabil ' Patris Archiep ' Eborum pro contumaciis suis ratione contractus in civitate nostra Eborum habit ' ut dicebat tanquam excom ' claves Ecclesiae contemnent ' per corp ' suum secundum consuetud ' Augliae per te justic ' praecepimus donec c. esset satisfact ' eid ' Archiepiscopo ad satisfaciendum Deo sanctae ecclesiae sufficientem exposuit cautionem per quod eidem Archiepiscopus â—ffic Archdiac London mutuae vicissitudin ' obtentu scripsit ut ipsum absolvat ab excom ' senten ' memorata sicut idem Archiepiscopus per Literas suas Patentes
commitment by the command of the King were lawfull yet when he hath continued in prison by such reasonable time as may be thought fit for that offence for which he is committed he ought to be brought to answer and not to continue still in prison without being brought to answer For it appears by the Books of our Laws that liberty is a thing so favoured by the Law that the Law will not suffer the continuance of a man in prison for any longer time then of necessity it must and therefore the Law will neither suffer the party Sheriffs or judges to continue a man in prison by their power and their pleasure but doth speed the delivery of a man out of prison with as reasonable expedition as may be And upon this reason it is resolved in 1 2 El. Dyer 175. 8 E d. 4. 13. That howsoever the Law alloweth that there may be no term between the rest of an originall Writ and the return of the same where there is onely a summons and no imprisonment of the body yet it will not allow that there shall be a term between the rest of a Writ of Capias and the return of the same where the body of a man is to be imprisoned insomuch that it will give no way that the party shall have no power to continue the body of a man imprisoned any longer time then needs must 39 E. 3. 7. 10 H. 7. 11. 6 E. 4. 69. 11 E. 4. 9. 48 E. 3. 1. 17 E. 3. 1 2 Hen. 7. Kellawaies Reports do all agree that if a Capias shall be awarded against a man for the apprehending of his body and the Sheriffe will return the Capias that is awarded against the party a non est inventus or that languidus est in prisona yet the Law will allow the party against whom it is awarded for the avoiding of his corporall pennance and dures of imprisonment to appear gratis and for to answer For the Law will not allow the Sheriffe by his false return to keep one in prison longer then needs must 38 Ass. pl. 22. Brooks imprisonment 100. saith That it was determined in Parliament that a man is not to be detained in prison after he hath made tender of his fine for his imprisonment therefore I desire your Lordship that Sir Iohn Corbet may not be kept longer in durance but be discharged according to the Law The substance of the Objections made by Mr. Attorney General before a Committee of both Houses to the Argument that was made by the House of Commons at the first conference with the Lords out of Presidents of Record and Resolutions of Iudges in former times touching the Liberty of the person of every Freeman and the Answers and Replies then presently made by the House of Commons to these objections AFter the first conference which was desired by the Lords and had by a Committee of both houses in the painted Chamber touching the Reasons Laws Acts of Parliament and Presidents concerning the Liberty of the person of every Freeman M r Attorney General being heard before the Committee of both houses as it was assented by the house of Commons that he might be before they went up to the conference after some preamble made wherein he declined the answering all Reasons of 〈◊〉 and Acts of Parliament came onely to the Presidents used in the Argument before delivered and so endeavoured to weaken the strength of them that had been brought in behalf of the subjects to shew that some other were directly contrary to the Law comprehended in the Resolutions of the house of Commons touching the bailing of Prisoners returned upon the writ of Habeas Corpus to be committed by the special command of the King or the Councel without any cause shewed for which by Law they ought to be committed And the course which was taken it pleased the Committee of both houses to allow of was that M r. Attorney should make his Objections to every particuler President and that the Gentlemen appointed and trusted herein by the house of Commons by several Replies should satisfie the Lords touching the Objections made by him against or upon every particular as the order of the Presidents should lead them he began with the first 12. Presidents that were used by the house of Commons at the conference delivered by them to prove that Prisoners returned to stand so Committed were delivered upon bail by the Court of Kings Bench The first was that of Bildstones case in the 18. Edw. 3. Rot. 33. Rex To this he Objected First that in the return of him into the Court it did not appear that this Bildstone was committed by the Kings command and Secondly that in the Record it did appear also that he had been committed for suspicion of counterfaiting the great Seal and so by consequence was bailable by the Law in regard there appeared a Cause why he was committed in which case it was granted by him as indeed it was plain and agreed of all hands that the Prisoner is bailable though committed by Command of the King and he said that this part of the Record by which it appeared he had been committed for suspicion of treason was not observed to the Lords in the Argument before used and he said also to the Lords that there were three several kinds of Records by which the full truth of every award or bailing upon a Habeas Corpus is known First the remembrance Roll wherein the award is given Secondly the file of the writt and the return and Thirdly the Scruect or Scruet finium wherein the baile is entered and that onely the remembrance Roll of this Case was to be found and that if the other two of it were extant he doubted not but that it would appear also that upon the return it self the Cause of the Commitment had been expressed and so he concluded that this proved not for the house of Commons touching the Matter of bail where a Prisoner was committed by the Kings special command without Cause shewed To this Objection the reply was First that it was plain that Bildstone was committed by the Kings express Command For so the very words of the Writt are to the Constable of the Tower quod cum tenendum Custodiae facias c. then which nothing can more fully express a Commitment by the Kings command Secondly how ever it be true that in the latter part of the Record it doth appear that Bâ—â—stone had been Committed for suspicion of Treason yet if the times of the proceeding expressed in the Record were observed it would be plain that the Objection was of no force for this one ground both in this Case and all the rest is infallible and never to be doubted of in the Law Nota. That Justices of every Court adjudge of the force and strength of a return out of the body of it self onely and as therein it appears Now in Easter term in the
according to former Presidents made them truly acquainted with it and demaunded Justice against the Earle of Suffolk he read the words saying they were spoken to Sir Iohn Strangwayes a Member of their House After a short stay the Lords called for the Messenger to whom the Lord Keeper gave this Answer He signified the great desire and care of their Lordships to maintain and increase the correspondencies betwixt both Houses and as a Testimony thereof they had partly taken into consideration the charge That the Earle of Suffolk being a Man of great place and Honour had voluntarily protested upon his Honour and Soul that there passed no such words as those from him to S r. Iohn Sâ—rangwayes And the Lord Keeper wished that their Lordships speedy proceedings in this business might testifie their love and good will to the Commons House The next day being the 15. of April S r. Iohn Strangwayes made a Protestation openly in the House wherein he avowed that notwithstanding the Earls denial he did speak those words positively unto him and would maintain it any way fitting a Member of that House or a Gentleman of Honour They ordered that this Protestation should be entered into the Journal book and that a Committee should take into consideration what was fit for the House to proceed to for the justification of S r. Iohn Strangwayes and what was fitting to be done in this case and to examine Witness of the proof of the words Upon the 17. day S r. Iohn Elliot reported what the Committee had done That they had sent for and examined S r. Christopher Nevill who related that upon Saturday being in the Lords Committee Chamber the Earle of Suffolk said thus to him M r. Attorney hath cleared the business and hath made the cause plain on the Kings side and further said M r. Selden hath razed a Record and hath deserved to be hanged and the Lower House should do well to joyn with the Higher in a Petition to the King to hang him and added as a reason For M r. Selden went about and took a course to divide the King from his people or words to that effect And being asked whether he conceived that those words of dividing the King from his people had relation to the whole and general action of M r. Selden before the Lords or to the particuler of razing a Record he conceived they were referred to the general action They had examined one M r. Littleton who confessed he heard the Earle of Suffolk speak to a Gentleman whom he knew not words to this affect viz. That he would not be in M r. Seldens Coat for 10000 l. and that M r. Selden deserved to be hanged The second part of this Report concerned the Particuler of S r. Iohn Strangwayes wherein though the Committee found no Witness to prove the words spoken to S r. Iohn Srangwayes yet there were many circumstances which perswaded them of the truth thereof 1. That the same words in the same syllables were spoken to S r. Christopher Nevill and that the Earle as he called to him S r. Iohn Strangwayes so he called to him S r. Christopher Nevill 2. That the Earle of Suffolk called S r. Iohn Strangwayes to him and spake to him was proved by S r. George Fane and S r. Alexander S â— Iohn at which time the Earle seemed full of that which he delivered 3. That S r. Iohn Strangwayes instantly after his discourse with the Earle of Suffolk went to the Earle of Hartford and delivered him the passages betwixt them being the same related in the house 4. From the unwillingness of S r. Iohn Strangwayes though called upon by the House to testifie against the Earle till it was resolved by question he should do it from a probabillity that had not these words been spoken to himself it is like he would have produced S r. Christopher Nevill from whom he also heard the same 5. From the worth of the Gentleman and his ingenious protestation in the House That he was ready to justifie the truth of what he said in any course the House should thinck meet or was fit for a Gentleman of Honour Hereupon the House resolved by question 1. That the Earle of Suffolk notwithstanding his denial had laid a most unjust and scandalous imputation upon M r. Selden a Member of the House being imployed in the service of the House and therein upon the whole House of Commons 2. That this House upon due examination is fully satisfied that S r. Iohn Strangwayes notwithstanding the Earle of Suffolks denial hath affirmed nothing but what is most true and certain 3. That these particulers and additions be again presented to the Lords and the Earle of Suffolk newly charged at the Bar and the Lords desired to proceed in Justice against the Earle and to inflict such punishment upon him as an offence of so high a nature being against the House of Commons doth deserve S r. Iohn Elliot was partly sent with the Message to the Lords who after a while returned this answer That they had taken the Message into consideration and would further take it into due consultation and in convenient time would return an answer by Messengers of their own Several Speeches made at the debates concerning the KINGS Propositions for supply M r. ALFORD THat to answer punctually to every Article was but to discover the Kings wants which is neither safe nor fit as the world now goes nor is it good for him to ask more then we can give nor for us to offer disproportionably withall it might draw to a president for the Subjects to make and maintain Wars S r. ROBERT MAUNSELL IT had been much better for us to have taken care for these proviâ—â—â— 3. years since His desire is not to have the Commons over-burthened That 7. of these Propositions are not to be neglected viz. The safe guarding of the Coasts The defence of the Elve The defence of 〈◊〉 The increasing of the Navy The repairing of the Foâ—â—â— The discharge of the Arrears of Merchants ships and the defence of the King of Denmark the other to be delayed to our next meeting at Michalâ—as S r. FRANCIS SEYMOUR THat as supply is deâ—ired so are we met for that purpose but if by those late courses we be disabled then he is not to expect it from us our greatest grievances being his Majesties pressing wants two subsedies formerly given and five forcibly and unadvisedly taken are great motives not to be too forward That we have too haâ—tily drawn two great Enemies upon us and all this done by men of small or no judgement S r. PETER HAYMAN THat vast Propositions are delivered to us in shew which he desires he may give an Estimate of that first brought them in M r. PYMM. THat in no Case it is â—â—t to examine the Prâ—positions especially of the Arrâ—arages of the Merchant ships and for preparation of the forreign Wars Secretary COKE THat three things
in Chambers but publick in Court where every one may hear which causeth Judgement to be given with maturity Your Lordships have heard the particulers delivered by my brethren how that Councel being assigned to those 4. Gentlemen in the latter end of Michaelmass Term their Cause received hearing and upon consideration of the Statutes and Records we found some of them to be according to the good old Law of Magna Charta but we thought that they did not come so close to this Case as that bayl should be thereupon presently granted My Lords the Habeas Corpus consisteth of 3. parts the Writ the Return upon the Writ or schedule and the Entry or rule reciting the Habeas Corpus and the Return together with the opinion of the Court either a remittitur or traditur in ballium In this Case a remittitur was granted which we did that we might take better advisement upon the Case and upon the remittitur my Lords they might have had a new Writ the next day and I wish they had because it may be they had seen more and we had been eased of a great labour And my Lords when the Attorney upon the remittitur pressed an Entry we all straitly charged the Clark that he should make no other Entry then such as our Predecessors had usually made in like Cases for the difference my Lords betwixt remittitur and remittitur quousque I could never yet finde any I have now sat in this Court 15. years and I should know something surely if I had gone in a Mill so long dust would cleave to my cloaths I am old and have one foot in the grave therefore I will look to the better part as near as I can But omnia habere in memoria in nullo errare divinum potiùs est quam humanum THE LORD CHIEF IUSTICE SAith he shall not speak with confidence unless he might stand right in the opinion of the House and protested what he spake the day before was not said by him with any purpose to trench upon the Priviledges of this House but out of that respect which by his place he thought he owed to the King he said concerning the point he was to speak of that he would not trouble the Lords with things formerly repeated wherein he concurred with his brethren He said if it were true the King might not commit they had done wrong in not partly delivering for my Lords saith he these Statutes and good Laws being all in force we meant not to trench upon any of them most of them being Commentaries upon Magna Charta but I know not any Statute that goeth so far that the King may not commit Therefore justly we think we delivered the interpretation thereof to that purpose for my Lords Lex terrae is not to be found in this Statute they gave me no example neither was there any Cause shewed in the Return A President my Lords that hath run in a storm doth not much direct us in point of Law and Records are the best Testimonies These Presidents they brought being read we shewed them wherein they were mistaken if we have erred erramus cum Patribus and they can shew no President but that our Predecessors have done as we have done sometimes bayling sometimes remitting sometimes discharging Yet we do never bayl any committed by the King or his Councel till his pleasure be first known Thus did the Lord Chief Justice Coke in Raynards Case They say this would have been done if the King had not written but why then was the Letter read and published and kept and why was the Town Clark sent carefully to enquire because the Letter so directed whether these men offered for bayl were subsedy men the Letter sheweth also that Beckwith was committed for suspition of being acquaninted with the Gun-Pouder-Treason but no proof being produced the King left him to be bayled The Earle of WARVVICKS speech 21. April 1628. MY Lords I will observe something out of the Law wherein this liberty of the Subjects Person is founded and some things out of Presidents which have been alleadged For the Law of Magna Charta and the rest concerning these points they are acknowledged by all to be of force and that they were to secure the Subjects from wrongfâ—ll imprisonment as well or rather more concerning the King then the Subject why then besides the grand Charter and those 6. other Acts of Parliament in the very point we know that Magna Charta hath been at least 30. times confirmed so that upon the matter we have 6. or 7. and thereby Acts of Parliament to confirm this liberty although it was made a matter of derision the other day in this House One is that of 36. E. 3. N o. 9. and another in the same year N o. 20. not printed but yet as good as those that are and that of 42. E. 3. cap. 3. so express in the point especially the Petition of the Commons that year which was read by M r. Littleton with the Kings answer so full and free from all exception to which I refer your Lordships that I know not have any thing in the World can be more plain and therefore if in Parliament ye should make any doubt of that which is so fully confirmed in Parliament and in case so clear go about by new glosses to alter the old and good Law we shall not onely forsake the steps of our Ancestors who in Cases of small importance would answer nolumus mutare leges Angliâ— but we shall yield up and betray our right in the greatest inheritance the Subjects of England hath and that is the Laws of England and truely I wonder how any man can admit of such a gloss upon the plain Text as should overthrow the force of the Law for whereas the Law of Magna Charta is that no Free-man shall be imprisoned but by lawfull judgement of his Peers or the Law of the Land the King hath power to commit without Cause which is a sence not onely expresly contrary to other Acts of Parliament and those especially formerly cited but against Common sence For M r. Attorney confesseth this Law concerns the King why then where the Law saith the King shall not commit but by the Law of the Land the meaning must be as M r. Attorney would have it that the King must not commit but at his own pleasure and shall we think that our Ancestors were so foolish to hazard their Persons Estates and labour so much to get a Law and to have it 30. times confirmed that the King might not commit his Subjects but at his own pleasure and if he did commit any of his Subjects without a Cause shewen then he must lie during pleasure then which nothing can be imagined more ridiculous and contrary to true reason For the Presidents I observe that there hath been many shewen by which it appears to me evidently that such as have been committed by the Kings Councel
to shew clearly it shall not be his fault if this be not a happy Parliament His Majesty hath commanded me to desire this House clearly to let him know whether they will rest upon his Royal word and promise made at several times and especially by my Lord Keepers Speech made in his own presence which if they do he doth assure you that it shall be royally and really performed After speaking of himself and the nature of his place under his Majesty he proceeded in these words GIve me leave freely to tell you that I know by experience that by the place I hold under his Majesty if I will discharge the duty of my place and the Oath I have taken to his Majesty I must commit and neither express the cause to the Jaylor nor to the Judges nor to any Councellour in England but to the King himself yet do not think I go without ground fo reason or take this power committed to me to be unlimmitted Yea rather it is to me a charge burthen and danger for if I by this power shall commit the poorest porter if I do it not upon a just cause if it may appear the burthen will fall upon me heavier then the Law can inflict for I shall loose my credit with his Majesty and my place And I beseech you consider whether those that have been in the same place have not committed freely and not any doubt made of it nor any complaint made by the Subject Veneris 2. May 1628. A Report was this day made from the grand Committee for grievances concerning the cause of Nicholas Clegat Cittizen and Vintner of London imprisoned by the Lord Major and Aldermen of the said Citie for refusing to lend a certain summe of money assessed upon him by the Company of Vintners of London whereof he is free towards the proportion of money imposed upon the Company by an Act of Common-Councel of the said Citie in pursuance of a contract of Land with his Majesty By which report it appeared that the said grand Committee had unanimously agreed that the said Citie might make Acts of Councel so as they were consonant to Law and reason and for regulating and deciphering of trade agreeable to reason and the Law of the Realm and might leavy money of the Cittizens by Act of Common-Councel for building or repairing of their Walls Gates or making or cleansing of Sewers or other like causes tending to the general and publick good and welfare of the Citie or towards Triumphs or other like occasions tending to the Honour of the Citie in general but could not by such Act of Common-Councel tax or leavy money towards the purchasing of Lands or other like occasion forreign to the government of the Citie Whereupon it is resolved by the House of Commons super totam materiam that the said Commitment of the said Nicholas Clegat was unlawfull and that a Petition should go from the House to his Majesty for the inlargement of the said Nicholas Clegat his commitment by the Lord Major and Aldermen being since strengthned by special command Henry TOMPSON one of the Shrieffs and Robert HENISVVORTH Alderman of the Citie of YORK their submission for their indirect chusing of S r. Thomas SAVIL Knight I Henry Tompson one of the Shrieffs of the Citie of York do hereby acknowledge to have offended the Lord Major and all the Cominalty of the Citie by the undue pronouncing and return of S r. Thomas Savil Knight to be one of the Cittizens to serve in this Parliament for the said Citie whereas I ought of right to have pronounced and returned in his place M r. Thomas Royle Alderman of the said Citie I am hartily sorry for my said offence and misdemeanour and crave pardon of my Lord Major and all the Cominalty and in particuler of the said Alderman Hoyl for the same I Robert Henisworth Alderman of the Citie of York do acknowledge that I have offended the Lord Major and all the Cominalty of of the said Citie by my undue preparing and practising the election of S r. Thomas Savill Knight to be chosen one of the Cittizens for the said Cittie of York to serve in this present Parliament I am hartily sorry for my said offence and do desire my Lord Major and all the said Cominalty to pardon me for the same Propositions drawn for the defence of this Kingdom and the annoyance of the enemies of the same by Sea THat every Shire in England shall be injoyned on the charge of the Countrey to set forth one Ship well maned and victualled for 7. Moneths and to be of the burthen of 500 300 or 140. Tuns at the least according to the ability of the Shire in the opinion of the State That every Port or Sea-Town according to their abillity be injoyned to do the like London may well furnish 10. Bristol 3. and the rest according to their abillity And such of the Sea-Towns as are not of abillity to set forth Ships of the burthen aforesaid to furnish out Pinnaces of 60 or 80 Tuns for Light-Horsmen or Intelligencers Those Ships will amount to 80. Sail and above and these to be divided into 4. Squadrons adjoyning unto every Squadron one of the Kings Ships for their Admiral The first Squadron to lye off and on the Western Ilands and as â—igh as theiâ— aâ—â—ries for 〈◊〉 men the Caracks and the Plate-Fleet and all other trading that way 〈…〉 The fourth Squadron to keep the Narrow Seas to awe the Dunkerkers to take all the French trade and so Northward and this Squadron to be still relieved with fresh Ships as the other shall grow foul or come to any misfortune so as this Squadron may continually keep the Seas most part of the year That no Master of these Ships be owner or have any part in her that he goeth in Master of for they will be unwilling to bring their Shin in fight or danger and use many tricks and devices especially if there be an ignorant Captain Therefore it is expedient likewise that every Shire should nominate a Captain for the Ship that they furnish out for the avoiding of ignorant and insufficient Captains That in London Pâ—rtsmouth or elsew here where the State shall think fit there be Store-houses appointed for the receipt of such Prizes as shall be taken by any of the 4. Squadrons That every County or Sea-Town that furnisheth the said shipping may nominate and have a Master of their own free election that may have power in the behalf of the Counties and Sea-Towns as the other Officers that shall be appointed for the King for the opening of decks of the Prizes receiving the goods into the said Store-houses and for the divideing and disposing them according That what Prizes any of the 4. Squadrons shall take be brought into one of the Port Towns where those Store-houses are appointed and the benefit of all Prizes what Squadron soever of the 4. sendeth them in be divided the Kings part
his way to the Crown of England the more easie and the possession of it the more sure claiming it by little but afterwards when there were no powerfull pretenders to the Crown The little of Conquest to introduce that absolute power of a Conquerour was claimed and that Statute of Magna Charta and other Statutes mentioned in our Petition do principally limmit that power I hope it is as Lawfull for me to cite a Jesuite as it is for Dr. Manwaring to falsifie him Suares in his first book de legibus cap. 17. delivered his opinion in these words amplitudo restrictiâ— potestatis Regum circa ea quae per se mala vel injusta non sunt pendet ex arbitrio hominum ex ambigua convencione vel pacto inter Reges Regnum And the further expresseth his opinion that the King of Spain was so absolute a Monarch that he might Lawfully impose tribute without consent of his people untill about 200. years since when it was concluded between him and his people that without consent of his people by proxies he should not impose any Tribute And Suares opinion is that by that agreement the Kings of Spain are bound to impose no Tribute without consent And this agreement that Author calls a restraining of that Soveraign power the Statutes then mentioned in our Petition restraining that absolute power of a Conquerour if we recite those Statutes and say we have the Soveraign power intire we do not take away that restraint which is the virtue and strength of those Statutes and set at Liberty the claim of the Soveraign power of a Conquerour which is to be limitted and restrained by no Laws this may be the danger of the word entyre The next words delivered by the Lords as observable is the particle that because it was said that all Soveraign power is not mentioned to be left but onely that with which the King is trusted for our protection safety and happiness But I conceive this to be an exception of all Soveraign power for all Soveraign power in a King is for the protection safety and happiness of his people If all Soveraign power be excepted you may easily Judge the consequence all Loans and Taxes being imposed by colour of that Soveraign power The next word is trusted which is very ambiguous whether it be meant trusted by God onely as a Conquerour or by the people also as King which are to Govern also according to Laws ex pactâ— In this point I will not presume to adventure further onely I like it not by reason of the doubtfull exposition it admits I have likewise considered the proposition it self and therein I have fallen upon the dilemma that this addition shall be construed either to refer unto the Petition or not If it doth refer unto the Petition it is meerly useless and unnecessary and unbefitting the Judgement of this grave and great Assembly to add to a Petition of this weight If it hath reference 〈◊〉 it then it destroys not onely the virtue and strength of our Petitionâ—â—â— Right but our rights themselves for the addition being referred 〈◊〉 each part of the Petition will necessarily receive this construction That none ought to be compelled to make any guift loan or such like charge without common consent or Act of Parliament unless it be by the Soveraign power with which the King is trusted for the protection safety and happiness of his people That none ought to be compelled to sojourn or billet Souldiers unless by the same Soveraign power and so of the rest of the Rights contained in the Petition And then the most favourable construction will be that the King hath an ordinary Prerogative and by that he cannot impose Taxes or Imprison That is he cannot impose Taxes at his will to imploy them as he pleaseth that he hath an extraordinary and transcendent Soveraign power for the protection and happiness of his people and for such purpose he may impose Taxes or billet Souldiers as he pleaseth and we may assure our selves that hereafter all Loans Taxes and billeting of Souldiers will be said to be for the protection safety and happiness of the people Certainly hereafter it will be conceived that an House of Parliament would not have made an unnecessary addition to this Petition of Right and therefore it will be resolved that the addition hath relation to the Petition which will have such operation as I have formerly declared and I the rather fear it because the late Loan and Billeting have been declared to have been by Soveraign power for the good of our selves and if it be doubtfull whether this proposition hath reverence to the Petition or not I know not who shall Judge whether Loans or Imprisonments hereafter be by that Soveraign power or not A Parliament which is made a body of several wits and may be dissolved by one Commission cannot be certain to decide this question We cannot resolve that that the Judges shall determine the words of the Kings Letter read in this House expressing the cause of Commitment may be such that the Judges have not capacity of Judicature no rules of Law to direct guide their Judgements in cases of that transcendent nature the Judges then and the Judgements are easily conjectured It hath been confessed by the Kings Councel that the Statute of Magna Charta bindes the King and his Soveraign power cannot be divided from himself If then the Statute of Magna Charta bindes the King it bindes his Soveraign power if to the Petition these words be added the exposition then must be that the Statute of Magna Charta binds the Kings Soveraign power Saving the Kings Soveraign power I shall endevour to give some answer to the reasons given by the Lords The first is that it is the intention of both Houses to maintain the just Liberty of the Subject and not to diminish the just power of the King and therefore the expression of that intention in this Petition cannot prejudice us which I answer First that our intention was and is as we then professed and no man can assign any particuler in which we have done to the contrary Neither have we any way transgressed in that kinde in this Petition and if we make this addition to the Petition it would give some intimation that we have given cause or colour of offence therein which we deny and which if any man conceive so that he would assign the particuler that we may give an answer thereunto By our Petition we onely desire our particuler Rights and Liberties to be confirmed to us and therefore it is not proper for us in it to mention Soveraign power in general being altogether impertinent to the matter in the Petition There is a great difference between the words of the addition and the words proposed therein for reason viz. between just power which may be conceived to be limmitted by Laws and Soveraign power which is supposed to be
transcendent and boundless The second reason delivered by their Lordships was that the King is Soveraign That as he is Soveraign he hath power and that that Soveraign power is to left for my part I would leave it so as not to mention it but if it should be expressed to be left in this Petition as it is proposed it must admit something to be left in the King of what we pray or at least admit some Soveraign power in his Majestie in these Priviledges which we claim to be our Right which would frustrate our Petition and destroy our Right as I have formerly shewed The third reason given from this addition was that in the statute Articuli super Chartas there is a saving of the right and seigniory of the Crown To which I give these answers That Magna Charta was confirmed above 30 times and a general saving was in none of these Acts of confirmation but in this onely and I see no cause we should follow one ill and not 30 good Presidents and the rather because that saving produced ill effects that are well known That saving was by Acts of Parliament The conclusion of which Act is that in all those Cases the King did will and all those that were at the making of that Ordinance did intend that the Right and Seigniory of the Crown should be saved By which it appears that the saving was not in the Petition of the Commons but added by the King for in the Petition the Kings will is not expressed In that Act the King did grant and depart with to his people divers Rights belonging to his prerogative as in the first Chapter he granted that the people might choose three Men which might have power to hear and determine complaints made against those that offended in any point of Magna Charta though they were the Kings officers and to fine and ransome them and in the 8. 12. and 19. Chapter of that Statute the King departed with other prerogatives and therefore there might be some reason of the adding of that Soveraign by the Kings Councel But in this Petition we desire nothing of the Kings Prerogative but pray the enjoying of our propper and undoubted Rights and Priviledges and therefore there is no cause to add any words which may imply a saving of that which concerns not the matter in the Petition The 4. reason given by their Lordships was that by the mouth of our Speaker we have this Parliament declared that it was far from our intention to incroach upon his Majesties Prerogative and that therefore it could not prejudice us to mention the same resolution in an addition to this Petition To which I answer that that declaration was a general answer to a Message from his Majestie to us by which his Majestie expressed that he would not have his Prerogative streitned by any new explanation of Magna Charta or the rest of the Statutes and therefore that expression of our Speakers was then propper to make it have reference to this Petition there being nothing therein conteined but particuler Rights of the Subject and nothing at all concerning his Majesties Prerogative Secondly that answer was to give his Majectie satisfaction of all our proceedings in general and no man can assign any particuler in which we have broken it and this Petition justifies it self that in it we have not offended against the protestation and I know no reason but that this declaration should be added to all our Laws we shall agree on this Parliament as well as to this Petition The last reason given was that we have varied in our Petition from the words of Magna Charta and therefore it was well necessary that a saving should be added to the Petition I answer that in the Statute 5. E. 3. 25. E. 3. 28. E. 3. and other Statutes with which Magna Charta is confirmed the words of the Statute of explanation differ from the words of Magna Charta it self the words of some of the Statutes of explanation being that no man ought to be apprehended unless by indictment or due process of Law the other statutes differing from the words of Magna Charta in many other particulars and yet there is no saving in those Statutes much less should there be any in a Petition of Right these are the answers I have conceived to the reasons of their Lordships and the exposition I apprehend must be made of the proposed words being added to our Petition And therefore I conclude that in my opinion we may not consent to this addition which I submit to better Judgements The Reasons of the Commons House delivered by M r. GLANUILE why they cannot admit of the Propositions tendered unto them by the Lords May it please your Lordships I Am commanded by the House of Commons to deliver unto your Lordships their reasons why they cannot admit of the Proposition tendered unto them by you but for an introduction into the busines please you to remember that a Petition of Right was shewed to your Lordships wherein we desired you would joyn with us a Petition my Lords fitting for these times grounded upon Law and seeking no more then the Subjects just Liberty The Petition consisted of 4. parts The first touching Loan Aids and Taxes The second touching imprisonment of mens Persons The third touching Billeting of souldiers The fourth touching Commissions issued for Martial Law and put in execution upon several Persons Groaning under the burthen of these we desired remedy and wish your Lordships would joyn with us which you having taken into consideration we must confess have dealt nobly and freely with us not to conclude any thing till you hear our just reasons for which we thank your Lordships and hope your Lordships will value those reasons which we shall now offer unto your Lordships The work of this day will make a happy issue if your Lordships please to relinquish this as we formerly upoâ— conference with your Lordships have done some other things For the Proposition my Lords we have debated it throughly in our House and I am commanded to deliver unto you the reasons why we cannot infert this clause Neither your Lordships nor we desire to debate Liberty beyond the due bounds or to incroach upon the Kings Prerogative and lessen the bounds thereof The first reason I am to lay down is touching Soveraign power which I beseech you not to accept as my own being but a weak Member of that strong body but as the reasons of the whole House upon great and grave considerations First my Lords the words Soveraign power hath either reference or no reference to the Petition if no reference then superfluous if a reference then dangerous and operative upon the Petition and we think your Lordships purposes is not to offer unto us any thing that may be vain or to the hinderance of any thing wherein you have already joyned with us The Petition declareth the Right of the Subject which
Fifthly By faults of inferior Ministers men and ships discharged after presses or imbarques are put to such charge that all decline not onely the service but the Trade of fishing and Sea-fareing Those that are really prest come far from the West or the North to Chatham early in the year and so with few Cloaths at the end of the Summer nasty and weak infect themselves and others And in the imployment FIrst Are Commanders weak young ignorant Captains c. Secondly Are not provided of good Chirurgeons and extraordinaries necessary for sick men Thirdly Both ships and men contrary to the wisdom of former times are set out in Winter Voyages long and dark nights and in our Northern Seas upon our dangerous Coasts which have consumed a World of our Marriners and discouraged others After the imployment FIrst If the Marriners come home sick no Hospitals or Guest-Houses as in other Countreys to relieve them Secondly If after all their miseries they return well they are forced to sue for their due Wages till all they have is spent Opportunity of new imployment is lost and themselves so discouraged or put out of heart that they either run away to the Enemy or put themselves in forraign service or betake themselves to any thing rather then the Sea life And those whose ships have been taken up 36. Moneths some 30. some 20. some more some less still complain they are not paid the small fraight of 2. shill. per Tun at first promised By this means they have neither Money nor will to repair their ships and none build new almost in any part by reason of their discouragements and those that do build take care to build them unserviceable to avoid pressing or taking up The Remedies proposed in general FIrst That the State would be pleased to give all possible countenance and comfort to all sorts of Merchants and Fishermen both by better guarding of the Seas by settling of the Book of Rates and Customes and duties and by orderly regulating the many affairs according to the wisdom of former times imploying of skilfull and experienced men and more particulerly in allowing the old 5. shill. per Tun to all such as shall build new serviceable ships of 150. Tuns or upwards upon a Certificate made before the Judge of the Admiralty to be duly paid by some Collectors of the Customes without further trouble Secondly To increase the fraight from 2. shill. to 3. shill. per Tun and Tonnage to agree of the measure of Tonnage before the ships go into service that upon return speedy payment may be made by some setled and published assignment Thirdly That all arrearages due to owners of ships and Marriners that have served may be paid out of the subsedies and that a certain course of payment for the future may be established and published His Majesties Message to the House of Commons by the SPEAKER 6. June 1628. WHereas his Majesty understanding that you did conceive his last Message to restrain you in your just Priviledges These are to declare his intention that he had no meaning of barring you from what hath been your Right but in the manner to avoid all scandals on his Councel and actions past his Ministers might not be nor himself under their names taxed for their Councels and that no such particulers should be taken in hand as would ask a longer time of consideration then what he hath already prefixed and still resolves to hold that so for this time Christendom might have notice of a sweet parting between him and his people which if it falls out his Majesty will not be long from another meeting when such grievances if there be any at their leasure and convenience may be considered The KINGS speech 7 June THe answer I have already given you was made with so good deliberation and approved by the judgement of so many wise men that I could not have imagined but it should have given you full satisfaction But to avoid all ambiguous interpretations and to shew you that there is no doubleness in my meaning I am willing to please you in words as well as in substance Read your Petition and you shall have an answer I am sure will please you Then the Petition of Right was read and again the whole PARLIAMENT spake MAy it please your most Excellent Majesty The Lords spiritual and temporal and Commons in Parliament Assembled taking into their considerations that the good intelligence between your Majesty and your people doth much depend upon your Majesties answer unto their Petition of Right formerly presented with an unanimous consent unto your Majesty Do most humbly beseech your Majesty that you will be gratiously pleased to give a satisfactory answer thereunto in full Parliament Soit droit fait come est desire par le Petition Let right be done as is desired by the Petition The KING again THis I am sure is full yet no more then I granted you in my first answer for the meaning of that was to confirm all your Liberties knowing according to your own protestations that you neither mean nor can hurt my Prerogative And I assure you my Maxim is that the peoples Liberties strengthen the Kings Prerogative and the Kings Prerogative is to defend the peoples Liberties You see now how ready I have shewn my self to satisfie your demands so that I have done my part wherefore if this Parliament hath not a happy conclusion the sin is yours I am free of it The Motions of the Lower-house to the Higher 7. June 1628. THat the new granted subsedies might be expended especially upon three or four of the most necessary of those Propositions propounded by his Majesty That they thought the most necessary imployments for the subsedies were first the repairing of our new impaired Navy Royal and the decayed Sea munition Secondly the re-edifying of the breaches made in our Forts and haven Towns Thirdly by a supply and speedy aid and assistance for Denmark And whether in these they have judged rightly or not the eminent and incroaching dangers of the present times might be a guide Also they made Declaration of the late Suits and Petitions of our Marriners having lately received from them a Bill of grievances against the Duke for defect of payment and that not of some few but the whole Company And that if herein they had not sudden redress they must be forced to right themselves upon him as they shall finde opportunity Herein the Commons did declare that they thought themselves bound in Conscience as helping the oppressed and in pollicie in preventing all such combustions to patronize and cherish them Also they thought it expedient that all such books as have been questioned in Parliament and since tollerated might after the dissolving thereof by the virtue of the former Protection pass uncontroulable and the Authors thereof without molestation In the interim that this latter Proposition was debating upon just occasion being offered S r. THOMAS WENTVVORTH delivered
Licensing of bad books is a crime or the refusing to license books because then writ against Poperie or Arminianisme is a crime There is no Law to prevent the printing of any book in England onely a Decree in Star-chamber therefore that a man should be sued and imprisoned and his goods taken from him is a great Invasion on the Libertie of the Subject moveth a Law to be made upon this This is referred to a select Committee to examin Mr. Shervile REported concerning the Pardons that they have examined Doctor Sibthorp and Cosens Pardons Sibthorp solicited his own Pardon and said he would get the Bishop of Winchester to get the Kings hand to it It is evident that the Bishop of Winchester got the Kings hand to Sibthorp and Cosens Pardons and also Mountagues Pardon was promised by him That Doctor Manwering solicited his own Pardon and the Bishop of Wincâ—ester got the Kings hand to it It is likewise said the Pardons were all drawn by Mr. Attorney before there was any Warrant Mr. Cromwell saith he had by relation from one Doctor Beard that Beard said Doctor Allablaster had preached flat Poperie at Pauls Cross the Bishop of Winchester commanded him as he was his Diocesan that he should preach nothing to the contrarie Sir Robert Philips saith One Doctor Marshall will relate as much said to him by the Bishop of Winchester as the Bishop said to Doctor Moor. Mr. Kirtoâ— That Doctor Marshall and Doctor Beard may be sent for This Bishop though he hath leapt through many Bishopricks yet he hath leâ—t Poperie behind him That Cosens frequenting the Printing-house hath caused the Book of Common-Prayer to be new printed and hath changed the word Minister into Priest and hath put out in another place the word Elect thus Cosens and his Lord go hand in hand Sir Miles Fleetwood saith We are to give Mountague his Charge and by his books charge him with Schisme in error of Doctrine Faction in point of State Thirdly matter of Aggravation Sir Walter Earl OUi color albus erat nunc est contrarius albo saith Doctor White hath sold his Orthodox books and bought Jesuiticall books moves that Bishop White may go arm in arm with Mountague Ordered a select Committee to be named to digest these things that have been alreadie agitated concerning the Innovation of Religion the Cause of the Innovation and the Remedie Thursday 12. THe Sheriff of London upon his submission at the Barre is released his imprisonment in the Tower Sir Iohn Elliot made the Report for the Committee in the examination of the complaint of Merchants and delivered the Orders and Injunctions into the Exchequer At a great Committee for Tonnage and Poundage Mr. SHERVIL in the Chair MAster Waller delivered a Petition from Chambers Felke and Gilborn in complaint of an information against them in the Star-chamber about Tonnage and Poundage that by the restraint of their goods they are like to be undone Sir Iohn Elliot THe Merchants are not onely kept from their goods by Customers but by a pretended Justice in a Court of Justice as the Exchequer I conceive if the Judges of that Court had their understanding enlightened of their error by this House they would reform the same and thereby the Merchants suddenly come to their goods Mr. Transtort conceiveth this to be a difficult way for us to go Mr. Corington Let it be done which way the House shall think fit but I conceive the Merchants shall have their goods before we can think of the Bill Kings ought not by the Law of God thus to oppress their Subjects I know we have a good King and this is the advice of his wicked Ministers but there is nothing can be more dishonorable unto him Mr. Stroud That it may be Voted That the Merchants may have their goods before we enter on the Bill Chancellor of the Dutchie I shall speak my opinion because I know not whether I shall have libertie to speak or you to hear any more All the proceedings of the King and his Ministers was to keep the Question safe untill this House should meet and you shall find the proceedings of the Chequer were Legal and thus much not knowing whether I shall have a days libertie to speak any more here again Mr. Thesaurer There is none here but would think it a hard thing that a Possession should be taken from us without any order for Sequestration that therefore it was not to be suffered that these few men should so unjustly disturb the Government of the State Desires there may be no interruption but that we may proceed to settle the Tonnage Mr. Corington I hope we may speak here as I hope we may speak in heaven and do our duties and let no fear divert us Mr. Waller It is not so few as 500 Merchants are threatened in this Sir Robert Phillips moveth we may go to the King and satisfie him of these interruptions Mr. Noy We cannot safely give unless we be in possession and proceedings in the Exchequer nullified and information in the Star-chamber and the Annexion to the Petition of Right and other Records I will not give my voice to this untill these things be made void for it will not be a Guift but a Confirmation Neither will I give unless these interruptions be removed and a Declaration in the Bill That the King hath no Right but by our free guift If it will not be accepted as is fit for us to give it we cannot help it If it be the Kings alreadie as by these new Records then we need not to give it Mr. Selden secondeth the Motion of sending a Message to the Exchequer declareth a President of a Message sent into the Chancerie for stay of proceedings in a Cause and it was obtained and whatsoever the Judges return it cannot prejudice us the Law speaks by Record and if these Records remain it will to posteritie explain the Law Mr. Littleton For the Right there is no Lawyer so ignorant to conceive it nor any Judge in the Land to affirm it is against giving to the King or going on the Bill In this case by the Law a man cannot be put to a Petition of Right but shall recover without Right Ordered that a Message shall be sent to the Court of the Exchequer That whereas certain goods of the Merchants have been stayed by Injunction from that Court by a false Affidavit and that the Customers that made the Affidavit have upon examination of this House confessed that the goods were stayed onely for duties contained in the book of Rates that therefore that Court would make void the orders and Affidavits in this business Friday 13. A Petition against one Burges a Priest who was here complained of the last Session some new Articles complained against him that he could not get a Copie of his Articles out of the house untill he was fain to get one counterfeit himself a Puritan to get the same and