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A02848 An ansvver to the first part of a certaine conference, concerning succession, published not long since vnder the name of R. Dolman Hayward, John, Sir, 1564?-1627. 1603 (1603) STC 12988; ESTC S103906 98,388 178

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was crowned in writing also that the States did consult in Parliament of creating a new king after the custome of their auncestors it is a sleepie ieast to straine euery word in such an author to proprietie of speech You might better haue cited what certaine cities in Fraunce not long since alledged for themselues That because they had not reputed Henry the fourth for their king because they had not professed alleageance vnto him they were not to be adiudged rebels whereupon notwithstanding the chiefest Lawyers of our age did resolue that forasmuch as they were originall subiects euen subiects by birth they were rebels in bearing armes against their king although they had neuer professed alleageance And this is so euidently the lawe of the Realme that it is presumption in vs both in you to assay by your shallow Sophistrie to obscure or impugne in me to indeuour by authorities and arguments to manifest or defend the same But the admission of the people you say hath often preuailed against right of succession So haue pyrates against merchants so haue murtherers and theeues against true meaning trauellers And this disloyalty of the people hath moued diuerse kings to cause their sonnes to be crowned during their owne liues because the vnsetled state of succeeding kings doth giue oportunitie to bouldest attempts and not as you dreame because admission is of more importance then succession I will examine your examples in the Chapters following In the meane time where you write that king Henry and king Edward both called the Fourth had no better way to appease their minds at the time of their death but by founding their title vpon consent of the people the Authors which you cite do plainely charge you with vnexcuseable vntruth King Edward neuer made question of his right king Henry did as some other Authors report but applied no such deceiptfull comfort this false skinne would not then serue to couer his wound To the seuenth Chapter which beareth title How the next in succession by propinquity of bloud haue oftentimes bin put backe by the commonwealth others further off admitted in their places euen in those kingdoms where succession preuaileth with many examples of the kingdome of Israel and Spaine HERE you present your selfe very pensiue to your audience as though you had so ouer-strained your wits with store of examples of the next in succession not admitted to the state that you had cracked the creadite of them for euer But you are worthy of blame either for endangering or troubling your selfe in matters of so small aduantage I haue shewed before that exāples suffice not to make any proofe and yet herein doth consist the greatest shew of your strength It is dangerous for men to be gouerned by examples though good except they can assure themselues of the same concurrence of reasons not onely in generall but in particularities of the same direction also and cariage in counsell and lastly of the same fauourable fortune but in actions which are euill the imitation is commonly worse then the example Your puffie discourse then is a heape of words without any waight you make mountaines not of Mole-hils but of moates long haruest for a small deale not of corne but of cockle and as one sayd at the shearing of hogges great crie for a little and that not very fine wooll Yea but of necessitie something you must say yea but this something is no more then nothing You suppose that either your opinion will be accepted more for authority of your person then waight of your proofes or else that any words will slide easily into the minds of those who are lulled in the humour of the same inclination because partialitie will not suffer men to discerne truth being easily beguiled in things they desire Besides whatsoeuer countenance you cary that all your examples are free from exception yet if you had cast out those which are impertinent or vniust or else vntrue you could not haue beene ouer-charged with the rest Your first example that none of the children of Saule did succeede him in the crowne is altogether impertinent because by particular and expresse appointment of God the kingdome was broken from his posteritie We acknowledge that God is the onely superiour Iudge of supreme Kings hauing absolute both right and power to dispose and transpose their estates as he please Neither must we examine his actions by any course of law because his will is aboue all law He hath enioyned the people to be obedient to their Kings he hath not made them equall in authoritie to himselfe And whereas out of this example you deduce that the fault of the father may preiudicate the sonnes right although he had no part in the fault to speake moderately of you your iudgement is either deceitfull or weake God in his high Iustice doth punish indeed the sinnes of parents vpon their posterity but for the ordinary course of humane iustice he hath giuen a law that the sonne shall not beare the iniquity of the father the equity wherof is regularly followed both by the Ciuill and Canon law and by the interpretors of them both Your second example is of King Salomon who succeeded in the state of Dauid his father notwithstanding he was his yongest sonne But this example in many respects falleth not within the compasse of your case First because he was not appointed successor by the people we speake not what the king and the people may do to direct succession but what the people may do alone Secondly for that the kingdome was not then stablished in succession Lastly for that the action was led by two Prophets Dauid and Nathan according to the expresse choise and direction of God whereby it is no rule for ordinary right Here many points do challenge you of indiscretion at the least You write that Dauid made a promise to Bathsheba in his youth that Salomon should succeed in his estate but if you had considered at what yeares Salomon began to raigne you should haue found that Dauid could not make any such promise but he must be a youth about threescore yeares of age You write also that Dauid adored his sonne Salomon from his bed but the words wherewith Dauid worshipped were these Blessed be the Lord God of Israel who hath made one to sit on my throne this day euen in my sight whereby it is euident that Dauid adored God and not his son This I note rather for obseruation of the loosenesse of your iudgement then for any thing it maketh to the purpose You are so accustomed to vntruths that you fall into them without either aduantage or end The like answer may be giuen to your example of Rehoboam because God declared his sentence therein by two Prophets Ahijah and Shemaiah But for that the ten tribes reuolted from Rehoboam vpō discontentment at his rough answer and with dispite against Dauid
successiue by the law of nations affirming further that alwayes it hath beene alwayes it shall bee that the first borne succeedeth in a kingdome wherein he is either followed or accompanied with open crie of al the choise interpreters of both lawes as namely the Glossographer Iohan. Andreas Hostiensis Collect. Pet. Anchoranus Antonius Imola Card. Florentinus Abb. Panormitanus Oldradus Albericus Angelus Felinus Paul Castrensis Alexander Barbatius Franc. Curtius Guido Pape Card. Alexander Philip Francus Iason Philippus Decius Carol Ruinis Anto. Corsetta Ripa Calderine Alciate and manie other of somewhat more ordinarie name Who all with full voice do agree that in kingdomes and other dignities which cannot bee either valued or diuided but they are dismembred the eldest son doth entirely succeed And this manie of them do call the law of all Nations deriued from the order of nature and from the institution of God and confirmed by the Canon ciuil and other positiue lawes For the succession of children is one of the primarie precepts of nature whereby his mortalitie is in some sort repaired his continuance perpetuated by his posteritie But among al the children nature seemeth to preferre the first borne by imprinting in the mind of parents the greatest loue and inclination towards them as diuers of the authors before alleaged do affirm as it may appeare by that of the prophet Zacharie And they shall lamēt ouer him as men vse to lament in the death of their first borne and likewise by that which is said of Dauid that he would not grieue his sonne Ammon for that he loued him because he was his first borne Hereupon Lyra and before him Saint Augustin and Saint Chrysostome do affirme that the last plague of the Egyptians which was the death of their first borne was the most sharpe and heauie vnto them For nothing saith Saint Augustin is more deare then the first borne Aristotle Plinie Aeltane and Tzetzes do write that the same affection is also found in certaine beasts And to this purpose is that which Herodotus reporteth that when the Lacedaemanians had receiued an oracle that they should take for kings the two sonnes of Aristodemus and Aegina but giue most honor vnto the eldest and they were ignorant which was eldest because the mother and the Nurse refused to declare it they obserued which of the children the mother did wash and feed first and thereby found out that Eristhenes was the eldest Lucian citeth the loue of the first borne as growne into a prouerbe Gregorie Nazianzene saith that all men haue a sense thereof Saint Ambrose writeth that in this respect God called the people of Israel his first borne for that they were not most ancient but best beloued Lastly S. Chrysostome affirmeth that the first borne were to be esteemed more honorable then the rest And this naturall precedence both in honour and in fauour seemeth to be expressely ratified by God first where he said vnto Cain of his brother Abel His desires shall be subiect vnto thee and thou shalt haue dominion ouer him according to which institution whē Iacob had bought his brothers right of birth Isaak blessed him in these words Bee Lord ouer thy brethren and let the sonnes of thy mother bow before thee Secondly where he forbiddeth the father to disinherit the first sonne of his double portion because by right of birth it is his due Thirdly where he maketh choise of the first borne to be sanctified to himselfe And whereas God hath often preferred the youngest as Abel Isaac Iacob Iuda Phares Ephraim Moses Dauid Salomon and others it was no other then that which Christ said that manie that were last should be first and that which Saint Paul hath deliuered that God hath chosen the weak and base and contemptible things of this world least any flesh should glorie in his sight So hath Herodotus written how Artabanus the Persian in complaining maner did confesse that God delighted to depresse those things that were high But if the first borne die before succession fall or if being possessed of the kingdom he die without issue his right of birth deuolueth vnto the next in bloud and if he dieth in like maner then vnto the third and so likewise to the rest in order This is affirmed by Albericus and may be confirmed by that which Baldus saith that succession hath reference to the time of death and respecteth the prioritie which is then extant And againe He is not said the first borne in lawe who dyeth before the fee openeth but he who at that time is eldest in life And this opinion is embraced by Alciate because as Celsus saith Primus is dicitur ante quē nemo sit He is first who hath none before him Iaco. A retinus Cinus Albericus and Baldus doe forme this case There is a custome that the first borne of the first mariage shoulde succeede in a baronnie a certaine baron had three wiues by the first he had no children by the other two manie the first sonne of the second mariage shall succeede because as the glossographer there saith the second mariage in regarde of the thirde is accompted first Baldus dooth extende it further that if hee hath a sonne by the first mariage and hee refuse the baronie the first sonne by the second mariage shall succeede in his right and so hee saith it was determined in the kingdome of Apulia when Lewes the kings eldest sonne was professed a friar And this decision is allowed by Alexander Oldradus and Antonius Corsetta and is prooued by plaine text of the canon law both where the second borne is called first borne whē the first borne hath giuen place and also where he is called the onlie sonne whose brother is dead But because it is a notorius custome that the neerest in bloud doth succeede although perhaps remoued in degree I wil labour no more to loade it with proofe for who wil proclaime that the sunne doth shine But if we should now graunt vnto you which is a greater curtesie then with modesty you can require that no particular forme of gouernement is naturall what will you conclude thereof what inference can you hereupon enforce That there is no doubt but the people haue power to choose and to chaunge the fashion of gouernment and to limitte the same vvith vvhat conditions they please What Sir can you finde no thirde but that either one forme of gouernment is naturall or that the people must alwaies retaine such libertie of power haue they no power to relinquish their power is there no possibilitie that they may loose it whether are you so ignorant to thinke as you speake or so deceitfull to
write that certaine people were gouerned onlie by Princes of that sex But because this is a matter both of long discourse and not proper to our purpose I wil conteine my selfe within this obseruation That the exclusion of King Edward the third from the crowne of Fraunce vppon this pretence was the cause of the effusion of their brauest bloud and of the spoile wast and conquest of all that Realme I acknowedge that the English haue lost the possession of that conquest and that was by meanes of domestical warres for excluding the neerest in bloud from the crowne into which vnquiet quarrell you doe now endeuour againe to imbarke vs. Yet no man can assure that the miseries of Fraunce for this cause are at an end Rammes recoile to strike harder we are gone rather backe then away I will not presage but anie man may coniecture that our minds and our meanes will not alwaies want the fauour of time After all this you proceede a degree further that it is lawfull vpon iust considerations not only to put backe the next inheritour of the crowne but also to remoue him who is in full possession thereof And y● is plaine you say not onely by the grounds before by you alleaged but also by example of the Romans Graecians because God hath commonlie concurred in such iudiciall actions of the state not onely in prospering them but in giuing them also some notable successour And yet you protest you are far from their opinion who vpon euerie mislike are readie to band against their Prince and that you esteem the tenure of a crown if once it be setled the most irregular whereto euery man is bound to settle his conscience without examination of title or interest but onely by the supreme law of Gods disposition who can dispence in what he listeth and that notwithstanding you are as farre from the abiect flatterie of Billaie and others who affirme that Princes are subiect to no law or limitation at al and that they succeed by nature and birth onely and not by admission of the people and that there is no authoritie vnder God to chasten them These you call absurd paradoxes and herewith you settle your self to shewe in the next Chapter what good successe hath insued the deposition of Princes Concerning your protestation wee may say vnto you as Isaac said to his sonne Iacob The voice is Iacobs voice but the hands are the hands of Esau You speake faire and therewith also well but the maine drift of your discourse is nothing else but a tempestuous doctrine of rebellion and disorder you being therein like the boatman who looketh one waie and pulleth another or rather like the image of Ianus which looked two contrarie waies at once It is a rule in lawe That a protestation contrarie to a mans act will not serue to relieue him onlie this shal serue to conuince you either of false or of forgetful dealing when we come to that place where in flat words you maintaine the contrarie Concerning the querele which you lay against Billaie as I haue not seene what he hath written so wil I not interpose betweene him and you I neuer heard of christian prince who challenged infinite authoritie without limitation of any law either natural or diuine But where you terme it an absurd paradoxe that the people should not haue power to chasten their Prince and vpon iust considerations to remoue him I am content to ioine with you vppon the issue And first I note the maner of your dealing in that you haue omitted to expresse what these iust considerations may be For seeing there hath bin no king who is not noted of some defects and againe no Tyrant who hath not manie commendable partes as Plutarch writeth that Dionysius excelled most princes in diuers pointes of iustice and vertue it is a matter of dangerous consequence to leaue these considerations vndetermined and at large But who seeth not that you do it out of pollicie that you may vpon euerie particular occasion declare such causes to be sufficient as you please How then doe you proue that vpon anie cause the people haue power to dispossesse their prince This is plaine you say not onlie by the groundes before by you alleaged but also by example of y● Romans Graecians The grounds by you alleaged are two One in your first Chapter that because no one forme of gouernment is natural the people haue power both to choose and to change and to limit it as they please The other ground is in this Chapter that because there are diuers lawes and customes in matters of principalitie it sufficeth not to alleage bare propinquitie of bloud Why but had you no text of scripture no Father of the Church to alleage No lawe No reason No better example No surer grounde It is more then this which you bring against your selfe in citing out of Saint Peter The Lord knoweth to reserue the vniust vnto the daie of iudgement and especiallie them that despise gouernment and speake euill of those that are in dignitie And out of Saint Iude Likewise these dreamers despise gouernment and speake euill of them that are in authoritie Besides also you haue alleaged out of Saint Paule Let euerie soule be subiect vnto the higher power for there is no power but of God Whosoeuer therefore resisteth the power resisteth the ordinance of God and they that resist shall receiue to themselues iudgment And likewise out of S. Peter Submit your selues to euerie humane creature whether it be to the king or vnto gouernors for so is the will of God To which places we maie likewise ad that which S. Paule did write vnto Titus Put them in remembrance that they be obedient to the principalities powers And writing to Timothy he exhorteth vs also to praie for them that we may leade vnder them a peaceable life But perhaps you wil say that the Apostles did not meane this of wicked princes Trifler the Apostles spake generallie of al Saint Peter maketh expresse mention of euil Lords And what princes haue euer bin more either irreligious or tyrannical then Caligula Tiberius Nero the infamie of their ages vnder whose empire the Apostles did both liue and write Bellarmine the great master of controuersies perceiuing this to be vnanswerablie true did in another sort rather cut then vntie the knot affirming that at that time it was necessarie to admonish the Christians to performe obedience to their kings least the preaching of the Gospel might otherwise be hindred which is as if in direct tearmes he should haue saide Sir Kings whilest our heads were vnder your girdle we were content to curry fauour by preaching obediēce vnto the people but now we haue got the wind of you we must plainlie tel you that you hold your crownes at their curtesie and fauour and haue no power in effect but as lieutenants general I know you wil
the ruine of all So saith Suetonius that vnder Domitian the prouinces vvere vvell gouerned onely certaine priuate men at Rome felt the euill of his crueltie and other vices But vvhen the people doe breake into tumult then all course of iustice is stopped then is either assistance made or resistance vveakned for forren inuasion then is euery one raysed into hope vvho cannot flye but vvith other mennes feathers then as vvhen a fierce horse hath cast his rider the reines are loosed to those insolencies vvhich a dissolute people nothing restrained either by honestie or feare doe vsually commit For as it is the nature of men vvhen they come out of one extremitie vvherin they haue bene houlden by force to runne vvith a swift course into another vvithout staying in the middest so the people breaking out of tyrannie if they bee not helde back vvill runne headlong into vnbrideled libertie and the harder they vvere kept vnder beefore the more insolently vvill they then insult I obserue that Saint Paul alleageth two reasons vvherefore vve should be obedient euen to vvicked and cruell Princes one is for conscience sake Beecause they are the ministers of God and in their royaltie doe beare his Image Another for the safetie and tranquillitie of our selues that wee may lead vnder them a quiet and peaceable lyfe Wherevpon the prophet Ieremiah also exhorted the Iewes to ●eeke the peace of the cittie vvhether they should be transported because in the peace therof their quiet should consist For by obedience a few particulars remaine in daunger by rebellion all by obedience vve can be vnder the tyrannie but of one by rebellion vve are exposed to the rapine and crueltie of many by the one nothing by the other all things are permitted Vpon this ground Saint Augustine saide It is a generall couenant of humane societie to obey Kings And likewise Saint Ambrose It is a great and speciall point of doctrine whereby Christians are taught to be subiect vnto higher powers Three vvaies a cruell Prince may vvork violence against his subiects vpon their goods vpon their persons and vpon their consciences by commaunding them to commit that which is euil Of the first Saint Ambrose saith If the Emperour demaundeth tribute wee doe not deny him If he desireth fieldes let him take them if he please I doe not giue them to the Emperour but therewith also I doe not deny them Of the second Tertullian vvrighteth as I haue alleaged him before For vvhat vvar are vvee vnseruiceable or vnfit although vnequall in number vvho doe so vvillingly suffer death yea he vvas so farre from iudgeing it lawfull to resist that he thought it scarce allowable to flye In the third case not your rule of law but the rule of the Apostles taketh place It is better to obey GOD then man vvhereby the subiect is not bound to yeeld obedience But how hee is not bound to obey by doeing but by suffering hee is he is not bound to obey in doing that onely vvhich is euill but he is not thereby freed from doing any other thing which is lawfully commanded S. Augustine saith Iulian was an infidell Emperour an Apostata an Idolater christian soldiers did serue this infidell Emperour when hee would haue them worship Idols and offer Frankencense vnto them th●y preferred God before him but when hee saide bring foorth the armie march against such a nation they did presently obey All this seemeth to bee confirmed by God himselfe who after hee had forevvarned the people of Israell by the mouth of Samuell what heauie what open iniustice they should endure vnder some of their kings hee concludeth in these words and yee shall cry out in that day because of your king and the Lord will not heare you As if hee had said you shall grudge at this burthen you shall grone vnder it but you shall not haue power either to shrinke from it or to shake it off Surely if you had been aduised you would priuily haue blowen your blasphemies into the eares of those ideots who adore you for the great penitentiaries of the sea of Rome esteeme your idle imaginations as the articles of their faith not so publikely haue poured forth your self into these paradoxes both impious absurd not so boisterously haue stepped like Hercules Furens vpon the opē stage of the world to denoūce depriuation against all princes You would not thus confidently haue opposed your hot headed assertiō against al the ancient fathers of the church You would not thus ignorantly haue troubled the waters of true humane wisdom by corrupting the sence of the ciuell laws you would not thus profanely haue abused the scriptures in maintaining rebellion as coniurers doe in inuocating the diuell For first you are thereby discouered to be neither religious modest nor wise secondly you haue runne your selfe into the compasse of a Canon in the councell of Chalcedon Wherein it is thus decreed against you If Clerkes shall be found to be contriuers of conspiracies or raisers of factions let them be degraded After this you declare who is a tyrant and that is a king you say if once he doth decline from his dutie which is a large description and fit to set all christian countries on floate with bloud Comines saith that he is to be esteemed a good king whose vertues are not ouerballanced by vice I omit your thicke error in putting no difference betweene a magistrate and a king with many other of like qualitie and do come now to a principall point of your strength that Christian princes at this day are admitted vpon conditions and likewise with protestations that if they do not performe the same their subiects are free from all alleageance This you will prooue by the particular oathes of all Princes if the ouerrunning of your tongue may haue the ful course without encounter To the fifth Chapter which is entitled Of the coronation of Princes and maner of admitting to their authoritie and the oathes which they do make in the same vnto the common wealth for their good gouernment FIrst I will preface that no Prince is soueraigne who acknowledgeth himselfe either subiect or accomptable to any but to God euen as Marcus Aurelius said That Magistrates were iudges of priuate men and the Prince of Magistrates and God of the Prince In regard of this immediate subiection Princes are most especially obliged to the lawes of God and of Nature for Baldus Alexander Speculator all interpreters the lawe it selfe do affirme that Princes are more strictly bound to these lawes then any of their subiectes Whereof Dionysius the Tyrant had some sence when he sayd vnto his mother That he was able to dispence with the lawes of Syracusa but against the lawes of Nature he had no power If therefore a Prince doth professe that he will beare himselfe regardfull o● the accomplishment of these lawes