one against the other For whiles the spirit striueth against sinne and raigneth in vs thoughe the fleshe rebell and cause vs to sinne seauen times a daye yet are we not ouercome of sinne so to remayne in bondage to sinne that it should contynue to reigne in vs as you may see in the same chapter Rom. 7.5.6 Where you alleage then that Paul saw a lawe in his members which did lead him captiue vnto sinne you do falsifie the text for he saith leading me captiue and not did leade etc. for ther was a stronger man or a stronger then man that suffered not the lawe of his members to reigne for saith he I my self in my minde serue the law of God but in the flesh the law of sinne so that the whole man could not be said to serue sinne But say you afterward as concerning then the inner man we may be said to serue the lawe of God and thervpon be called the free seruantes of Christ notwithstanding this corruption of sinne in the flesh So the whole man by reasoÌ„ of our imperfectnes may be said to be the servants of sinne No yt is not true for the whole man is called after the part thath hat greather rule in vs as if the fleshe rule in vs we are the servaunts of sinne and ledd by Satan at his pleasure but if the Spirit rule in vs we are the seruauntes of God Sonnes of God Sainctes of God Citizens of Ierusalem holie and free people Kinges and Priests not that we are perfect or sinne not but that sinne reygneth not in vs but the spirit wherby we suppresse sinne reprove sinne striue against sinne subdue sinne and though we fall seuen times yet we rise againe by repentance and serue not sinne Rightly therfore did I saye that no man can serve two masters for his servantes we are to whom we gyue â— our selues as seruants to obey whether yt be of sinne vnto death or of obedience vnto righteousnes Rom. 6.16.18 being made free from sinne we are made the servantes of righteousnes So that the regenerat man or he that is by outward profession the servant of Christ cannot be called the servant of sinne by reason of the coâ—â—uption of the old man and dregges of sinne neither can he that standeth in boÌ„dage to anie sinne and giueth himself ouer to yt be called in that estate the servant of Christ till he repent but the servant of sinne 2. Pet. 2.19 Therfore you must recant your false interpretation of Paul in the 7. to the Rom. and cease your blasphemous raylings in calling the trueth of God the rocke of Brownisme And consider the height of your sinne by concluding a bondage vnto sinne of the wholeman for the corruptions of the fleshe which through the worke of the Spirit is daylie subdued though never vtterly rooted out of our earthlie members and from the committing sinne through frayltie an obstinate professed bondage to the false Church false gouernment false ministerie etc. which is plainly the marck of the Beast to whom with outward obedience they bowe downe and stand servants in his kingdome Revel 14.9.11.12 As for the 4. of the Galat. 26. where the Apostle saith Ierusalem which is aboue is free with her Children yo udurst not open yt nor expound yt but blaspheame raile and sclander as though we should pleade for such a freedome as should detract from Magistrates lawfull aucthorities from having Gods ordinances established by commaundement vpon the Church etc. yea that we should hold Anabaptisticall freedome as though we had power not to committ or consent vnto sinne wheras we haue euerie where by practise and protestation by word and writing testified to our Souereigne Prince and to all men the contrary But Satan that old accuser and detracter of Gods children to deceaue the world sendeth out such lyinge spirites to deface the trueth We with all subiection and willinge obedience to our souereigne Prince teach all men their obedience to the higher powers Subiectes to Magistrates Flocke to Ouerseers children to PareÌ„tes wines to their husbands servantes to their Masters etc. in all things in the Lorde and if they commaund vs anie thing contrary to the lawe of God we then patientlie suffer without resistance or rebellious thaughtes The freedome then we haue to speake of here which Christ hath purchased for vs is first that triumphe ouer Hell Deathe aÌ„d damnatioÌ„ through the merites of Christ apprehended by faith wayted for in hope Rom. 8. Secondly that because we were sonnes by election he giueth vs the spirit of adoption and sanctification wherebie we mortifie the fleshe have reigne and dominion ouer sinne that yt shall never reigne in vs more vnto condemnation repenting daylie our trespasses and crauing pardon for our hidden sinnes and secret faultes Thirdly we are throughe the same spirit and worde of trueth deliuered from all subiection of Antichist of the false Church false ministerie false gouernment etc. And. they that haue not this freedome are not by outward profession the seruauntes of Christ. Furder we haue freedome from all traditions of men that seing we are bought with a pryce we are no longer seruants of men to be in bondage to anie beggerly rudimentes or devises of meÌ„ but in all peaceable maner to worship and serve God within the limites of our callings according to the word of God as yt is reuealed vnto vs We haue freedome to speake the trueth with all boldnes though all men should inhibite vs we would not haue the doctrine limited stinted bought and sold for Iewishe tythes or mercenarie stipendes We have freedome to seperate from such false Prophetts as your self to come out of Babel etc. And in the true Church to reproue and withstand anie sinne or traditions of meÌ„ in due order only to be guided and gouerned by Christes lawes and ordinaÌ„ces In all this I trust you shall not find anie Anabaptistrie in the freedome we professe this is the truth of the Gospell wherbie we are made free Thus then we still affirme that they which stand in open knowen bondage to sinne are the seruants of sinne and not of CHRIST till they repent by outward profession Furder that allwhich stand members of your parish assemblies stand not members of CHRIST by outward profession but in bondage to a false and Antichristian ministery gouernment worship etc. and the bond woeman and her sonne must be cast out Furder for all liturgies and other devises of meÌ„ besides the canonicall Scriptures and liuely graces of his Spirit we hold they ought not to be brought into the publique assemblies nor imposed vpon mens consciences But if anie will write such or reade such let yt be for their private vse as all other mens writings we despise not any directions by word or writing that may furder vs anie way to the practize of GODS ordinances yet may they nether be imposed vpon mens consciences not be made a part of GODS worship The Lorde therfore that hath thus far
Eauen c. teachinge the church and ministrie to pray by nomber slint and proportioÌ„ it is not onely popish but most friuolous and vaine disgracing and not instructing the Church and ministerie 3. In that by this their Leitourgie they prescribe vnto the Church what Scriptures publiquelie to read and vvhen to reade them as these Chapters and Psalmes at their matteÌ„s before noone those at afternoone c. On all the dayes that they have publique meetings and service through the yeere and so from yeere to yeere They therebie take from the Church the â—olie and free vse both of the Scriptures and spirit off God They therbie conceale and shut out of the Church a great part off Gods holie worde which they reade not As also abuse without order those Scriptures they enioyne to be read 4. In that they shread rend and dismember the scriptures from the holie Order and natural sense of their context to make them Epistles Gospels Lessons select Psalmes to their festivals and idol worship aboue-said They most heinouslie pervert and abuse the Scriptures to the high dishonor of God their owne feareful iudgment 5. In that they bring in aÌ„d coÌ„maunde the Apocrypha writings to be publiquelie read in the Church They both mainetaine and publiquelie teach the dangerous errors therin contayned to the poysoning and subverting of the faith of the church They thrust these devises of meÌ„ into the place of Gods worde causing the people therebie to reverence and esteeme theÌ„ as the holie Oracles of God of like aucthoritie dignitie and truth and to resorte vnto theÌ„ to builde their faith thervpoÌ„ and therbie they bring in an other foundation into the Church besides the high iniurie donne vnto God therbie 6. Finallie in that by this their Leitourgie they bring in erect aÌ„d enioyne a nevv straÌ„ge kinde of administratioÌ„ as is aboue proued in the perticulars They make and erect a new Gospel and so must needes also erect vnto yt a new ministrie For the ministrie of Christ is oÌ„ly bounde vnto aÌ„d vvil onlie administer by Christes Testament vvherein they haue a most perfect Leitourgie for the vvhole administration of his Church Therfore this present Leitourgie and ministrie of EnglaÌ„d are by al these reasons in general and particular founde aÌ„d proved at once to be counterfeite vngodlie and Antichristian Hitherto Mr. Barrow aÌ„d much more in his books afore named as the reader there may fynd Now to conclude the end of publishing these things is to stirre vp al that feare God seriously to mynd what true prayer is and to be carefull to vse it aright according to the word off God which in al thinges faith without which it is imyossible to please God must alway respect and build vpoÌ„ Rom. 10.17 and 14.23 Heb. 11.6 Iosh. 1.7.8 That so we may in this as in all other dutyes of godlynes learne to performe it so as whereby we may be coÌ„forted of God and God may be glorifyed off vs in Iesus Christ. 1603. FINIS ¶ TO THE CHRISTIAN READER TOvvching the treatises follovving know Good Reader that Mr. GREENVVOODS first vvriting concerning read prayer c. vvas by the Prelates taken from him Wherevpon he desired Mr. GIFFORD vvho vvrote against him and had the copy of it to publish it also to the vvorld But he vvould not do it and so by their meanes it yet remayneth suppressed For vvhat cause thou mayest vvell conjecture vvith thy selfe These things Mr. GREENVVOOD himself signifyeth here in the Treatise ensuing Novv if by any meanes that first of his come into thy handes be thou entreated for the truths sake eyther thy selfe to publish it or to deliver it to such as vvill That so the vvhole matter and cariage of it may better appeare to all men for the â—urther manifestation of the truth in this behalf In the meane tyme these are published for thy benefit The Lord give thee so to vse them as may be for his prayse and thy comfort in Christ Remembring alvvay that he is Mediator not for any false vvorship vvhatsoever but for that onely vvhich is according to his vvord Which poynt vvell mynded as it ought vvould soone end the question here controverted and all other the like vvith all such as feare God Mynd it therefore and so farevvell in the Lord. The preface 1. Cor. 2. 11. What man knoweth the things of a man if not the Spirit of man which is in himself Euen so the things of GOD knoweth no man if not the Spirit of GOD. 12. Now we haue receiued not the Spirit of the world but the Spirit which is of God that we might knowe the thinges of GOD giuen vnto vs. 13. Which things we also speak not in the words taught of mans wisdome but in wordes taught of the Holy Ghost we compare spiritual thinges to spiritual thinges My first writing being about that spiritual exercise of praier and true inuocacion of Gods reuerend name whereby the distressed soule of man loaden with the burden of sinne compassed also about with so many deceitfull enimies contynual assaults of Satan rebellion of the flesh entisements of the world etc. seeketh daylie help of God the Father giuer of all good giftes hauing thorough IESVS CHRIST free accesse by the direction of his holy spirit for all occasions to vnburden yt self of whatsoeuer grief or occasion of thankes yt is moued with I ought still and by Gods assistance shall keepe me in the meeknes of the spirit not witstanding his vnchristian railinges sclanders and reproches against me and the truth I then shewed that no other prayer could vtter and ease the seuerall occasions and distresses of this conscience and that no other mans writing could speake for this soule vnto God but the heart and mouth of him that prayeth for himself or is chosen the mouth of many vttering to God his or ther mindes for their present wantes or occasions of thanckes giuing according to the will of God as neede and occasion vrgeth and the spirit giueth vtterance And I furder proved that onlie this prayer pleaseth God and is grounded of faith to this effect I brought many reasons out of Gods worde admiring the ignorance of this age wherin hauing had the gospell of Christ thus manie yeares in our owne language to search and try al things by whole congregations do make no other prayer to God then reading ouer certeine numbers of wordes vpon a booke from yeare to yeare moneth to moneth day to day c. the same matter and words as they were stinted euen out of that Portâ—is englished out of Antichrists masse-booke besides priuate reading of mens writings instead of praying And seing this counterfeit shew of worship and pretended prayers was made common marchandize in euery assemblie by this Antichristian priesthood and that al men euery where were compelled to bowe downe herevnto and to offer by such counterfeit sacrifices I perceaved the first principle of Religion which is to inuocate the name of
AN AVNSVVER TO GEORGE GIFFORDS PRETENDED DEFENCE OF READ PRAYERS AND DEVIsed Leitourgies with the vngodly cauils and vvicked sclanders comprised in the first part of his book entituled A SHORT TREATISE against the Donatists of England BY IOHN GREENWOOD CHRISTS POORE AFFLICTED prisoner in the Fleete at London for the trueth of the gospel 1590. To the Christian Reader grace and peace from God our Father and Iesus Christ our Lord. BEcause Prayer vnto God is a most Christian exercise and fruit of faith being rightly vsed having so many commaundements and promises concerning it in the Scripture by which we come most neare vnto God as in any other part of his worship speaking to him as it were mouth to mouth when we lift vp our hearts and powre forth our requests vnto the Lord it was thougt needfull seing these latter Treatises of Mr. Greenwoods towching this ArgumeÌ„t are now published agayne aÌ„d his first concerning it cannot be had here therefore to note downe briefly a few things both coÌ„cerning the doctrine aÌ„d right vse of praier aÌ„d in particular concerning read prayer by meanes whereof it is come to passe that true praier is so much vnknoweÌ„ neglected aÌ„d profaned And this we pray thee Christian Reader to take in good part and to examine vp the word of God which is the onely rule of truth and light of our feet in the darknes of this World Prayer is the lifting vp off the heart vnto God to call vpon his name with faith by the work and help of his Spirit Psal. 25.1 Rom. 10 1 .14 Mat. 21.22 Rom. 8.26.27 Praier is eyther with words or without words With words being vttered in speach eyther publickly or privately eyther in mo or fewer words yet alway briefly according â—o the present and severall occasioÌ„s Exod. 32.11.12.13 Ezra 9.6.15 2. â—am 7.18.29 and 15.31 Mat. 26.39 Ioh. 17. chap. Act. 1.24.25 and 4.24.30 Heb. 13.15 Without words being conceyved onely in the mynd and so presented before the Lord who knoweth the thoughts and secrets of the heart Exod. 14.15 â— Sam. 1.12.13 Esa. 38.14 Prayer is eyther Request or Thankesgiving Both these are eyther for our selves or for others Request for our selves is deprecatioÌ„ or supplication for others intercession 1. Tim. 2.1 Deprecation is for some evill to be kept or removed by the Lord froÌ„ vs. Mat. 6.13 and 8.24.25 Psal. 70. Gen. 32.9.12 2. Cor. 12.8 IaÌ„ â— 13 Supplication is for some good thing to be graunted or coÌ„tinewed of God vnto vs. Mat. 6.9.12 Gen. 24.12 Exod. 33.12.13 Psal. 4.6 Luk. 11.13 and 17.5 Intercession is for others eyther for some good to be given or some evill to be taken from them Mat. 6.9.11.12 and 5.44 Exod. 32.11.12 13. Ephes. 6.18.19.20 Rom. 15.30.31.32 Iam. 5.14.18 1. Ioh. 5.16 Thankesgiving is the yeelding of praise and thaÌ„ks vnto God for his mercy and benefits eyther given or promised Mâ— 6â—9 13 Gen. 24.27 Exo. 15.1.21 Psa. 69.29.36 aÌ„d 103.1.5 Ioh. 11.41 1. Tim. 1.17 Re. 7 1â— Prayer is to be made alwayes and onely in the Mediation of Christ. Ioh. 14.13.14.1 Tim. 2.5 Not that this need alway to be mentioned but that we ought alway to come before God and present our selves and our prayers vnto him with faith in the Mediation of Christ â— by whom alone we and al our sacrifices are made acceptable vnto God For in him are all the promises of God yea and Amen 2. Cor. 1.20 Through him are all the graces aÌ„d mercyes of God conveyed vnto vs Ioh. 1.16 Ephes. 4.7 By his MediatioÌ„ our prayers being presented before his Father all the weaknes want of faith love hope aÌ„d any other corruption wherewith our prayers as they proceed from vs be disteyned are covered and taken away Because he putteth the sweet odour of his Mediation vnto our prayers and so presenting them to his Father they are accepted of him Rev. 8.3.4 with Exod. 30.7.8 Psal. 141.2 Mar. 9.22.23.24 1. Pet. 2.5 For this cause therefore must prayer in faith alway respect Gods promise and Christs Mediation Mar. 11.24 Psal. 50.15 Rom. 8.34 Heb 7.25 and 9.24 And for the same cause must the person that prayeth first be accepted of God in Christ before their prayers and sacrifices can be approved Rev. 1.5.6 1. Pet. 2.5 Prov. 15.8 Hag. 2.13.14.15 Gen. 4.3.4.5 and 6.8 and 8.20.21 with Heb. 11.4.7 Wherevpon we are bound to be carefull first our selves to be in the true faith and Church of Christ vnder his Mediation that we may our selves be accepted of the Father in him and then in faith to offer our prayers both for matter and maner so as we have warrant by the word of God that he wil heare vs aÌ„d that Christ will be our Mediatour therein For which see the Scriptures a foresaid and Mat. 6.9 Ephes. 2.19 and 4.4.5.6 Act. 2.41.47 Exo. 30.9 Levi. 17.3.7 Deut. 12.5.8 Psal. 16.4 and 50.8.14.16 17.23 Esa. 1.12 etc. Mal. 1.14 1. Tim. 2.1.2.5.8 Iam. 1.5.8 Iohn 5. 13.14 Rev. 8.3.4 For our better direction and assurance herein hath Christ giveÌ„ that forme of prayer which is commonly called the Lords prayer Mat. 6. 9.13 Luk. 14.1.2.3.4 Where he hath prescribed a direction for the framing of all our prayers both for matter and maner according to that rule For in it we are taught as towching the matter of all our prayers that they be for things first and chiefly concerning Gods glory and then concerning our good so as will stand with the glory of God Ioh. 12.27.28 And towching the maner of prayer that it be in faith hope and love with reverence briefly and humbly propounded that he in al may be glorifyed In faith I say both of Gods willingnes to heare aÌ„d help as being our Father in Christ aÌ„d of his ability therevnto as being in heaven able to do whatsoever he will Esa. 63.16 Psal. 115.3 In hope of his mercy and favour towards vs he being our Father and we his children in Christ. Luc. 11.9.13 In love both off God and one off another in Christ. Psa. 116.1 Mar. 11.25.26 Act. 4.24 With revereÌ„ce as coming before our heavenly Father who is full off glory and Majesty he in heaven we on earth etc. And therefore also ought our prayers briefly and hunbly to be propounded not seking after long or affected speach nor vsing vayne repetitions etc. Mat. 6.7.8.9 Genes 18.27 Exood 34.8.9 Ecclesiast 5.1 And note here that Christ hath propounded this direction not by way off exhortation or doctrine as in other cases he was woont but in forme off petitions and those very brieff Least otherwise we should have doubted that we might not with such confidence in few words have spoken directly vnto God himselff but that we must have vsed either mediatours for vs as the Papists or sighs onely without words as the Anabaptists or never ceasing from prayer as the Eutychians or at least some long circuâ—staÌ„ce off words aÌ„d great affectatioÌ„ of speach or the like as ignorance superstition and hypocrisy are ready
spirit is by the worke of the spirit to bring fourth of our hearts praier to God which is than in truth when yt agreeth to Gods word But reading is another matter namely a receauing of instruccion into the heart from the booke Out of the first Mr. GIFFORD maketh men beleeue he hath fetched two heresies the one a perfection of faith the other that faith cannot be ioyned vnto or stand vvith anie outvvard helpes for the encrease therof Litle marueile he found so mâ—nie heresies in our whole writinges that could finde two or three in my first reason but that you may remember your self better though you had two yeares to consider I will bring the wordes before you againe if peradventure you may have grace to call backe yourself I said if the sighes and groanes in that kinde of praying were of faith yt would minister matter without a booke this sentence I may confirme by manie testimonies of scripture that no peruerted spirit can gainesay or resist the scripture teacheth vs euery where that in praying the spirit onlie helpeth our infirmities no other helpes mentioned or can be collected in the present action of prayer through the Scripture He hath sent into our hearts the spirit of his Sonne crying ABBA Father vve beleeue therfore vve speake Yet here is not anie shew of perfectioÌ„ of faith but of the contrary praying for our wantes But this may be gathered that God onely accepteth the fruits of his owne spirit in prayer and requireth no more of anie but that euerie one according to the proportion of faith pray vnto him as occasion in them requireth Nowe to conclude that because in praying we neede not a booke to speake for vs when the heart it self and booke of our Conscience speaketh with God that therefore fayth neuer needeth instruction but is perfect were sclanderous false and senselesse The cause then of these heresies proceed hereof that your selfe Mr. GIFFORD would needes frame two syllogismes and in the moodes of your malice coÌ„straine the proposition of the present action in praying to a general sentence of all times and actions though both our question here was of the verie action of praying and in the conclusion of that very poynt within six lynes after this you had these wordes Euen in the time of their begging at Gods hands so that these heresies must be Mr. Giffords and not myne seeing they are found to be coyned of his idle brayne and godles heart only to defame the trueth But say you the most part are ignorant weake short of memorie c. therefore need al helps to stir them vp to pray c. where by your own confession reading is not praying but a help to stir vp to pray And euen hereupon all our errours arise that you cannot discerne the difference of spirituall gifts with the distinct vse of them We doubt not but before prayer and all the dayes of our life we haue neede of helps of instruction to praye aright and for the fitnes of the mind and bodie often fasting reading meditating etc. are great helpes to go before to humble our selues in praying but in the present action of prayer when the heart is talking with God the eyes hands etc. with attention lift vp to heaueÌ„ al the powers of our soules and bodies conuersant with God to take a booke and read cannot be called in this action a help but a confounding of the mind of Gods ordinances and a doing we know not what though before and after it be an excellent meanes ordeyned of God to instruct vs to pray and al other dueties As for the confirmation you talke of where I alleadged that a troubled minde is the penne of a readie writer therfore needeth not a booke to speake for yt in the action of praying By troubled minde i vnderstood such a minde as is preseÌ„tly moued with the sight of some sinne or vrged by other occasion a broken spirit a broken and contrite heart aÌ„d not such a minde as in dispayre or doubt ys perplexed and that the heart which is moued in faith with present occasion to call vpon God is the penne of a readie writer that is hath matter aÌ„d wordes enough without a boocâ— to vtter yt owne wantes we may reade throughout the Psalmes My throte is dry saith David I am vvearie with crying c. But here againe instead of answere you tell me I runne vppon the rocke of an hereticall opinioÌ„ of perfection Wherin i wonder but that i perceaue your right eye is blinded you should be so carelesse what you say nay what after two yeares studie you put in prynt Doth it follow that because the heart moued with occasion through the worke of faith hath wordes and matter enough in praying without a booke to speake for yt that therfore faith is perfect let equal Iudges coÌ„sider Here you say manie are so troubled perplexed in minde that they cannot pray till they haue some consolation by the direction of others which wheÌ„ they cannot haue reading vpon a booke is a notable help I allowe al this and agree if you would make reading one thing and prayer an other divers exercises of the spirit etc. But in the verie action of praying to haue an other speake vnto vs never so good wordes of exhortation were but a confounding of the minde and actioÌ„ and an abuse of both those holie exercises Euen so by your owne comparison reading vpon a booke in the action of praying seing we cannot do both at once Yt is the Spirit of God in the verie action of prayer that helpeth our infirmities David in praying finding his soule heauie stirreth vp himself thus My soule whie art thou cast downe whie art thou disquieted within me waite on God For I will yet giue him thaÌ„kes my preseÌ„t help and my God He had a troubled minde his mouth wanted no wordes to prouoke the Lorde to heare his complaint and his heart to waite vpon the Lorde and so through all the Psalmes you shall finde the conversing of the soule with God to be such as yt were a mockery to think reading vpon a booke could haue anie place in that action or that anie mans writing could lay out the present estate of the soule with the passions therof The Priest may say my booke whie art thou so euill prynted for wheÌ„ they reade the heart caÌ„not reasoÌ„ and talke with God To the second poynt which was but your bare assuming of the question to say a man may pray by the spirit vpon a booke c. I alleadged that to worship God in spirit is when the inward faith of the heart bringeth fourth true invocation etc. this you graunt to be most true and that none other is accepted of GOD then that which proceedeth from the inward faith of our owne heart But you think that reading vpon a booke is to bring fourth of the heart true inuocatioÌ„ This cannot be if we consider the difference
betweene proseuche and anagnosis prayer and reading the one being a powring fourth of vowes petitions supplications the other a receaving into the soule of such things as we reade This therfore i leaue to all mens consciences to be considered whether the matter we reade can be said a powring fourt of the heart the whole vse of those divers actions through the whole Bible shew yt cannot Now where I said that you teach men insteade of powring fourth their hearts to help them selves with matter and wordes out of a booke you say I speake fondlie and foolishlie etc. Mine answeare now is yt is well I lyed not if I had said you compell men to reade vpon a booke in all your publique assemblies certaine wordes of your owne writings by number and stint from yeare to yeare and day to day the same instead of powring out their hearts before the Lorde for their present waÌ„ts I had not lyed Now let all men by that which hath bene said consider the grossnes of yt and so the follie remayneth to your self But to help this matter and to deliuer your self conningly in such strayte you saâ— you wish all men to vse the help of the booke that they migt the better powre fourth their hearts vnto God being such as are not throughly able First you graunt here the prayers read vpon the booke is not the powring fourth of the heart but ought to be vsed only as an help wherbie you graunt the whole question and furder all your assemblies haue had no other invocation of Gods name this many yeares but a help to teach theÌ„ to powre fourth their hearts But whether mens writings may be read in the publique assemblies to this vse we shall after make manifest Here yt is graunted but an help and not the powring fourth of the heart And to whom is yt an help to such as are notable to pray Here eyther you must confesse your whole ministerie is vnable to pray or that they transgresse in this high worship of GOD for in an other place you graunt in all your assemblies this reading is vsed of mens writings for prayer thus you may behold your best worship to be nothingh but a help to teach you to pray Where I said that you teach men to fetch the cause of their sorrowing from the booke euen in their tyme of begging at GODS hand you say I speake fondly to call that the cause which is the manifestacion of the cause etc. You here forget your artes Is ther no more cauâ—es then one if yt be the instrumentall cause it is sufficient to prove that if your Mininisters had not their booke they had nothing to aske or els asking that which is in the booke they aske not that wich before was in their owne heartes so not comming heauie loaden they goe emptie away and leave the matter in the booke as they founde yt till the next day and then sing the same songe But true prayer is when the heart is first prepared and moued with the sight of their wants as the child that asketh breade So we should not pray of custome but aske the verie thing wherof our heart feeleth the wantâ—et Your comparison againe betwixt the being stirred vp by a Sermon and stirred vp by reading sheweth that your self will not make the reading the powring fourth of the heart Ther is no question but the exercise of reading is chieflie for instructioÌ„ and encrease of knowledge and meditating is not the same nether can be said to be al the vse of reading though we denie reading to be praying but because we are forbidden conteÌ„tion about wordes and I have offred you as much wrong in saying you denyed reading to be for meditation at all I will proceede to the more necessarie doctrines Also for the controversie of Canonicall and Apocryphall we shall speak in due place Thus say you you have answered nothing at all vnto this Commandement giuen by our saviour Christ to vse that prescript forme of prayer say Our Father c. but by shift cauill c. Here you thinke you haue put me to a plunge your self needed nothing doubt but that I allowed the CoÌ„maundement holie and good and to extend to al Christians as well as to the Apostles namely to vse that prescript forme of prayer as the perfect patterne and direction to all mens true prayers But you I trust will make difference betwixt a forme to all prayers and praying or prayer And here you vehemently vrge me to answeare you before I see you conclude any thing froÌ„ the place and so I should runne into follie to answeare a matter before I heare yt In your first entrance of this discourse you were rounde in your Syllogismes by two at once to wrast my wordes and can find none for yourself Yt seemes your conscience is witnes the matter would not hang togeather And me thinkes you had never more neede to haue shewed what you would drawe from this place Luke 11. seing I either mistooke you last time or els you make a simple collectioÌ„ which was this Christ said to his Disciples when you pray say Our Father c. and not when you meditate say Our Father Now what would you conclude of this except as I said that Christ would not haue them meditate that Scripture But this I perceaue was not your meaninge now I partlie thinke your Argument should be if the sworde were not brokeÌ„ in the sheath thus Christ commaunded his Disciples when they prayde to say Our Father c. therfore to be tyed to reade ouer or say by roate certeine wordes is law full praying For the first that our Sauiour Christ tyed no man or commaunded none to say ouer those verie wordes when they prayde but to pray according to that forme after that maner as Matth. 6. I manifested in my first writing 1. that our Sauiour did not commaunde vs to vse those wordes 2 that Matth. 6. doth not keepe the same wordes nor that number of wordes which Luke 11. doth 3. that he did not say read these wordes when you pray or say these wordes by roate After all which reasoÌ„s slilye passed away in both your answeres you come with your bare affirmation that he commaunded those wordes to be said ouer by roate or reading yea a litle after you say it is false to say that he commaunded not the verie wordes to be said ouer when we pray And you furder conclude that because Christ commaunded his Disciples to say ouer those wordes therfore all mens writings in the forme of praier may be brought into the publique assemblies to be read for praier being agreable to the worde To which I aÌ„swere that seing no maÌ„s writings are without error yt is pernitious and blasphemous doctrine you collect First because you make mens writings of equal autority with the forme of praier which Christ hath prescribed 2 for that you gyue meÌ„ as much liberty and authority to frame and impose their
Liturgies as Christ had to set downe a forme of praier he being Lord of the house The wickednesse of which collections you shall neuer be able to answeare And because you here vrge me therunto I will make answeare to your two places of Scripture wherwith by false interpretation you deceaue the simple which taken from you your matter is nothingh but cauilling The places are these Luce 11. Nom. 6. and because the one explanes the other and your collections the same from both I will beginne with nombers 6.32.33.34 etc. Thus shall you bless the Children of Israell saying the Lorde bless thee keep thee c. Here you say they were commaunded to vse the verie wordes prescribed in all their blessings This I say is not true for the Hebrew worde is Coh Tebaracu thus shall you blesse wher the worde Coh is an aduerb of similitude as we say after this maner which cannot be to say the same but according to the same instructions This worde Coh is ysed throughout the Bible in this maner in all the Prophets wheÌ„ they say thus saith the Lorde where the summe of their prophesies are onlie recorded to vs by the holy Ghost aÌ„d not all the wordes Againe this blessing is vsed in the Psalmes and Chronicles in prayer for the people in manie other wordes Ely blessed Hanna in other wordes etc. And where by Lâ—ce 11.2 yt is recorded that our Sauiour Christ commaunded his Disciples when you pray say our Father c. yt is playne by the doctrines following 4.5.6.8.11 verses that Christ tyed no man to the verie wordes saying ouer for he teacheth them to aske their particular wants as a childe asketh breade or an egg of his Father also to importune the Lorde for our particular wants But to make this place more playne the same holy Ghost in the 6. of Mathew 9. verse saith when you pray say thus Our Father c. where the greeke word houtos hath the same signification that the Hebrew worde Coh had which is after this maner and cannot be referred to the verie wordes saying ouer wherupon Mr. Calvin vpon those wordes saith Noluit filius dei prescribere quibus verbis vtendum sit The Sonne of God would not prescribe what wordes we must vse Now consider how falslie Mr. Gifford hath interpreted these Scriptures to say the Priests wer commaunded to vse the verie wordes and that Christ commaunded to vse the verie wordes As for his collections that therfore mens writings may be imposed vpoÌ„ publique assemblies by stint and number to be prayde vt is intollerable error and bringeth in all popery Here I must call all men that reade this fruictlesse discourse to be witnes of Mr. Giffords abuse of his tongue to the defacing of Gods truth In his Epistle he proclaymed that I called all men Idolaters which you shall perceaue to be his owne wordes and to that end I will breifly repeat yt In my first writing I affirmed the reading imposed Liturgies by stint aÌ„d limitation instead of true invocation as also all reading meÌ„s writings for praying to be idolatrye In his answeare he said he could not see by what collour yt could be called Idolatrie or maintayned out of Gods worde so to be but yt seemes the penners of these things take euery sinne against the first table of the lawe to be Idolatry if they do so saith he and with all do hold that no Idolater shal be saued then doubtlesse all are lost c. Tothis ignoraÌ„t excursorie I answered that all false and devised worship by mans inuention was Idolatrye as the first and second commandemens did testifie And so admit all the breaches of the first table were not idolatrye yet reading of mens writinges instead of praying must needes be idolatry seing yt is a transgression of the second Commandement Furder though I needed not have followed his emptye head euen a cloude without water yet I proceeded to proue that no idolater could be saved but by repentance for their knowne sinne and craving pardon with David for their hidden sinnes and secreat faults Moreouer said I do you thinke anie man is free from all inward and outward idolatrye seing we cannot keep one Commaundement and in some things we sinne all In which wordes i plainelie reproued his grossnes that concluded all men idolaters which committed any idolatrye and that no idolater could be sauld and distinguished betweene the sinne of ignorance weaknes and inperfection etc. in Gods children and open professed obstinate idolatrie Yet this godles man would lay to my chardg that i should call all meÌ„ idolaters wheras i neuer vsed such a worde in all my writings But only answered his folly in this running out from the question they were his owne wordes that brought this vpon his owne heade by concluding that if euery sinne against the first table were idolatrie and no idolater could be saued then all are lost let the grosnes then be his and not mine And i leaue it to the consideration of all men whether i may not say that they which traÌ„sgresse the first or second Commaundements do commit Idolatrie without absurdity But saith he though yt be so yet the Scripture calleth not the godly murtherers Idolaters etc. for the reliques of sinne remayning I answere that therfore your former absurd cauilling where you said if we hold it Idolatrie etc. ys by your owne mouth fully answered But to auoyde this foyle he hath an other euasion I thought saith he we had reasoned about such grosse idolatrie as a Church is to be condeÌ„ned and forsaken which is defiled therwith Here againe you misreport me I neuer reasoned to that end in this whole discourse but only laboured to shew all men this error of reading meÌ„s writinges instead of praying that they might learne how to conuerse with God and their owne Conscience in prayer And what mendes wil you make for this sclandering and defacing of the truth to all the world all that I desire is your repentance and amendement which God graunt vnto you if you you be his It followeth in your booke thus But seeing you confess thaâ— all men be Idolaters that is touching the remanents of sinne it must needs follow there is no Church free from spots c. This worde idolaters must still be yours and then i willinglie graunt that no man liuing is free from idolatrie concerning the reliques of sinne Also that no Church vpon earth can be without spot vpon earth So that now by your owne coÌ„fessioÌ„ I pleade not for perfection in this life though the more we want the more we ought to endeuour With what face then could you publish me an Anabaptist in your Epistle and out of one mouth giue contrarie sentence Doth your ordinary teach you to cast out such bitter waters of vntruthes was yt possible I should hold al men Idolatres and some men without committing of sinne after regeneration especially to mainetaine both such heresies as you
gyve out Well consider your self before the Lord call you to accompt for defacing his truth and pleading for Baal I grant yea I were not of God if I should speake otherwise that the deare servaÌ„ts of God fall into most lothsome sinnes after regeneration that the riches of Gods mercy might appeare in their repentance through the worke of his grace Then you reason thus if ther be allwaies spottes and imperfectnes in the true Church vpon earth then al your ArgumeÌ„ts you bring against the Church of England are of no force except you will mainetaine a perfection Mâ—ne answeare is I will not meddle with your Church to proue yt a false Church in this treatise but refer you to Mr. Barrowes refutation of Mr. Gifford him that handleth that part of your booke Yet I must tel you your argument is verie simple For after the same maner you migt reason thus If ther be no true Church without spottes vpon earth then the Church of Rome is the true Church for yt hath manie spottes you all Schismatiques Againe you assume the matter you should proue It wil be proued against you that you haue not EcclesiaÌ„ a people called fourth of the world to the obedience of Christ Then that the spottes of your Church are Egiptian vlcers incurable running botches But I purposed not to deale with your Church only my mind is to shew the vnlawfullnes of this readingh and imposing mens writings vpon mens Consciences in stead of true praying Of which sinne the Lord giue you and this whole land grace to repent that so men may learne more feruently to cal vpon God The first Argument against read prayer c. No Apocrypha must be brought into the publique assemblies for there onlie GODS vvorde liuely voyce of his owne graces must be hearde in the publique assemblies But mens vvritings the reading them ouer for prayer are Apocrypha therfore may not be brought into the publique assemblies G. Gifford First touching the Proposition No Apocrypha is to be brought into the publique assemblies What can be more false Apocrypha is opposed against Canonicall If nothing may be brought into the publique assemblies but Canonicall Scripture then the Sermons and prayers of Pastors are to be banished c. I. Greenvvood IN the answere of this you will needes oppose against both Proposititions and yet have nothing to say if not to royle the doctrines deliuered with your feete least others should drinke therof The part of a wise man had beene to lay his hand on his mouth In the first Proposition you would oppose the worde Apocrypha against the liuely voyce of Gods graces when you see I said onlie that no Apocrypha might be brought into the publique assemblies And furder to explane my minde least you should willingly finde such a cauill I added this reason for there only Gods worde the liuely voyces of his graces are to be heard Where I acknowledged those liuelie voyces to be Gods ordinance yet nether to be called Apocrypha nor Canonicall How can you say then I would haue these or that these are banished if all Apocrypha writings be banished the publique assemblies Yet as I told you I take Apocrypha to be all writings but the Canonicall Authentique Scriptures But say you then I will exclude the Paraphrases vpon the Scriptures and the Psalmes in metre etc. Affirme you them to be Apocrypha as you do and can do no other and I will through Gods grace proue they ought not to be brougt into the publique assemblies First no mans writinghs are giuen to the Church by testimonie of Gods spirit and we are onlie commaunded to heare what the spirith saith therfore though mens writings be permitted to be read priuatlie of them that will and therupon called Apocrypha that is hidden they may not be brought into the publique assemblies Secondly no mans writinhs are without errour and imperfections therfore not to be brougt into the publique asseÌ„blies The Church is the pillar of truth Thirdlie the Church is builded vpon the foundation of the Prophets and the Apostles Christ Iesus being the cheif corner stone and not vpon meÌ„s writinges Therfore mens writins may not be brougt into the publique assemblies Ephes. 2.20 and 1. Cor. 3. Fourthlie if we might bring in anie mens writings into the publique assemblies theÌ„ all mens writings which we iudge agreable to the Scriptures But this is forbidden Ecclesiastes 12.11.12 My proof of the first Proposition to this If anie mens writings are to be brougt into the publique assemblies by Gods commaundement because they are agreable to the Scriptures as you in an other place alleadge then all that are thought agreable to the Scriptures ought of necessitie by the same commandement and if ther be no commaundement then none are to be make Authentique which God hath not made Authentique For that were to set man in the place of God No mans writinges cary that maiestie that the penne of the holy ghost No mans writinges are Cecuromenai Authentique confirmed by signes and wonders from heauen sealed by Christes blood that not one worde or title shal be vnfulfilled The Scriptures are all sufficient All men must walke by that one rule To thinke ther were not rules ynoug prescribed by the Lord for his house were blasphemous and papisticall Now for the explication interpretatioÌ„ etc. and speach vnto God in prayer God hath giuen giftes vnto men to pray and prophecye and ordeyned his ministerye of Pastors Teachers whose liuely voice is appointed to be the mouth of God vnto the people and of his people vnto himself in the publique assemblies And thâ—se graces are not Apocryphall for no prophecie of the Scripture is of priuate interpretatioÌ„ idias epiluseos to euery one to giueÌ„ the manifestatioÌ„ of te spirit to proffit withal Most excelleÌ„t meÌ„ serue but their tyme in the publique asseÌ„blies Now I may coÌ„clude a I beganne That only Gods holy word the liuely graces of his holy Spirit are to be heard offred vp vnto him in the publique assemblies Where then in way of answere to the Minor Proposition you say you see not how our speach vnto God should be Apocrypha It answeareth not me who deny an other mans writing to be our speach in prayer vnto God But conuinceth your self by your owne mouth thus True prayer ys not Apocrypha but all mens writings are Apocrypha Therfore meÌ„s writings is not true prayer Here when you haue nothing to say for your self you woulde make me belieue that I accoÌ„pt the Psalmes and the other formes of prayer in the Scripture to be Apocrypha when they be read though a litle before you confessed you had in your last writing donne me wrong therin I do accoÌ„pt the reading of theÌ„ for praying to be a grosse and superstitious abuse of theÌ„ yet theÌ„ to be holie and canonical Scripture And here you haue flatly ouerthroweÌ„ your self saying the worde Apocrypha is
commaundements of God to sett vp your owne traditioÌ„s And here vpon I demaunded wherupon you would make your stinted and sett prayers You marueile I should be so babling and make such questions you meane about your babling worship You saye of the particulars of the Lordes prayer I demaunde nowe againe whether you can number the starres of heauen or the sandes of the sea if not much lesse theâ— particulars of the Lordes prayer There is medecine and direction of prayer for euerie soule and euerie disease therof to be drawen fourth by doctrine and prayer as the need requireth you would sett a liturgie vpoÌ„ some thinges and compell meÌ„ thervnto euerie meeting which were nothing els but to seale vp the fountaine and send men to the drye pitts of your execrable devises from the whole fountaine to a pitcher of water from the liuely graces of doctrine and prayer to your owne writinges Paul commaunded to pray for Kings and Princes yet bounde no man what wordes to vse The Lord gyve you repentance of such presumptuous sinne as to alter his worship If you caÌ„not knowe the estate of the soule before hand you can make no formes of wordes for yt Read praiers were deuised by Antechrist and maintaine supersâ—ition an Idoll ministery therfore read praiers such stinted service are intollerable c. Antichrist devised manie blasphemous wicked praiers But to say that the reading or following a prescript forme of praier was his is most false for there were Liturgies in the Church of olde before Antichrist was set in his throne c. THe Scripture never inforced to reade praiers for praying nether stinted vâ— what or how manie wordes to vse nether is the formes of praier prescribed in the Scripture anie deuise of man Let vs then hold these two to be the matters in hand the one reading in steade of praying the other stinting and limiting by a written liturgie what and howe â—anie wordes to pray with all other such prescriptions as your liturgie conteyneth All may be affirmed antichristian which is not warranted by Christes worde Yet your liturgie is eueÌ„ from that Antichrist lifted vp into the throne you speake of as may of all men be seene that will coÌ„pare yt with the Portuis And as I haue heard the Pope would haue approued of your liturgie if yt might haue bene receaued in his name Nowe we haue proued in the discourse before that reading for praying hath no warrant from Gods Worde which maketh them two seuerall and divers actions euery where Here then we must consider something for an other liturgie theÌ„ Christes Testament which we shall find to be nothing els then an other gospell And because Mr. Gifford saith ther were liturgies in the Church before Antichrist was lifted vp into his throne which I will not denye I would have all men vnderstand that I do not go about to proue the Church no Church that hath a liturgie as mine Arguments are falslie wrested to that purpose but to proue the vnlawfullnes og such liturgies thrust vpon meÌ„s Consciences is onlie my determination through Gods assistance The worde liturgia signifieth publicum munus ergon Laou the worck of or for the people that is the very execution of the mâ—nisteriall actions in the Church according to the worde of all the officers therof that is the practise of those ministeriall duties prescribed by Christ we may euery where reade In the first of the Gospell of Luke the 23. verse it is said And it came to passe that when the daies of his ministration were past he went home to his house meaning Zacharias where we see the worde Leitourgia for his execution of his ministeriall functioÌ„ Now this Leitourgia of the newe Testament is euen the rule and function prescribed by Christ for the publique actions to be donne in his Church which leiturgie of Christ is perfect and he pronounced accursed that addeth any thing therto or taketh any there from yea all meÌ„ are bound to keep the true patterne therof without alteration or innouating anie part of the same yt is called a commaundemeÌ„t to be kept without spott till the appearing of our Lorde Iesus Christ. Nowe to make an other leiturgie is to lay an other foundation and to make an other Gospell not that ther is an other Gospell but that ther are some willing to peruert the Gospell of Christ. TheÌ„ your leiturgies to which you are sworne and by which you administer being as you cannot denie an other leiturgâ—e theÌ„ Christes TestameÌ„t is plaine an other Gospell for the CanoÌ„s and rules you prescribe and impose are such as he hath not prescribed or commaanded or at the best a transforming of his ordinances Now if you should say you do nothing but make lawes of particular thinges collected froÌ„ the scriptures aÌ„d with that collour impose your liturgies we haue shewed the vnlawfullnes of bringing anie mans writinges as rules into the Church For the explaning of the whole will of Christ so far as is meet for vs he hath giuen vs his officers to administer according to his liturgie by liuely voyce and due executioÌ„ of all things by one rule Making then a newe litourgia you must also make a newe ministerie for Christs ministerie caÌ„not administer after a counterfeit liturgie And that Antichrist was the theif Innouator of this liturgie howsoeuer the thing might be long a working by litle and litle yt is plaine when he is called Antikeimenos that opposite man or laier of an other foundation Now we must not make all liturgies beside the Testament of like wickednes or blasphemie But how neere the most heynousest yours approach let him that answereth the other part of your booke witnesse vnto me Nowe where I said you had confessed that you neuer read in the Scriptures any warrant to reade praiers vnto God you say now I knowe I haue falsified your wordes Surely yt would be knoweÌ„ for I would not willinglie so do your wordes you say were these to your remembrance God neuer commaunded a man to reade praier vpoÌ„ the booke Is not this the same that I saye you confesse ther is no warrant for reading prayer is ther anie thing warranted in his worship that he hath not commaunded Then you aske me if I will gather thus is it not expresse coÌ„maunded therfore yt is not warraÌ„ted No you forgot the worde expressie to help your self to saye and vnsaye I gathered that because you said absolutely it was not coÌ„maunded therfore yt was not warranted Here you come againe to shewe your ignorance in the Scriptures to say ther is not anie expresse commaundement to vse praier before or after doctrine And remember you here will haue it a commaundement and said before you hold yt not of necessitie There vvould sundry inconueniences grovve for vvant of a Liturgie or prescript formes of publique prayers STill I must put you in minde of the wisedome of that gouernour of
his house the builder beginner and finisher of our Faith Christ Iesus he foresawe what inconuenieÌ„ce would haue growne if either meÌ„ or Angells should make newe liturgies or other formes of praier theÌ„ he hath prescribed for the publique assemblies Here therfore you deeply chardge him not to haue donne all thinges that were needfull in not prescribing you more formes then he hath donne or not suffred learned diuines to impose their owne writinges vpon publique assemblies as rules for the Church and worship vnto God But see what the Scripture saith who hath knoweÌ„ the mynde of the Lord that he might instruct him Againe wher is the wise where the Scribe where the disputer of this world hath not God made the wisedome of this world foolishnes To put you out of doubt then that we neede not any newe liturgie nor anie mens writinges to be brought into the publique assemblies the Holie Ghost saith 2. Timot. 3.16 The whole Scripture is Theopneustos inspired of God and profitable vnto doctrine vnto improof vnto correction vnto erudition which is in righteousnes that the maÌ„ of God may be absolute perfect fully furnished vnto euerie good worcke Nowe if onlye the Scriptures be Theopnestos and sufficieÌ„t to make Gods children absolutely perfect even fully furnistied to euery good worck what blasphemie is yt to say sundrie inconueniences would growe if mens writinges were not imposed vpon the publique assemblies And in this your wisedome let vs see what is the chiefest inconuenieÌ„cy that would growe You say euerie fraÌ„ticke spirit of which sorte ther be manie in the ministerie would not only be vnlike themselues but varie from others I answered and still do that the Papists haue not so weake a reason for their Idolatrous liturgies Rubricks Canons You say yt appeareth by all my Arguments how meete a man I am to iudge the weight of reasons alleadged by the Papists and others well I am weake and you strong foolish and you wise yet might you haue shewed me a weaker reason which they alleadge for their constitutious ecclesiastical as they call them But my chief answere was wherby you might haue beene satisfied that if it were but in Phrases the ministerie should differ yt is no sufficient cause to ordeine liturgies And if they offend in matter of doctrine or conversation the censure of the Church should help that The first you graunt the second also you confesse that the Church should censure such thinges But you say ther are sundrie other differeÌ„ces in administration of publique prayers and SacrameÌ„ts as in order and ceremonies which the Church is to haue regard of and not to leaue arbitrarie All other ceremonies in Gods worship then Christ and his Apostles haue prescribed vs are diabolicall and not Apostolical Then for all thinges donne in the Church in those publique actions the offenders must be admonished if they transgresse the rules of the word And for the orers you speake of you meane circumstaÌ„ces of time place kneeling sitting standing etc. of them thet can be no furder lawes then Christ hath prescribed that all things be donne to edifying in comelyues and decency etc. of these to set particular lawes were to breake the lawe of God which leaueth them in the Churches liberty as neede requireth to the glorie of God In these thinges to do anie thing contrarie to the generall rules of order edifying decencye etc. the traÌ„sgressour is by those rules to be instructed admonished and ceÌ„sured Well here you haue made a faire hand to make read prayers but a matter of order which is all the worship you haue to bring in mens writings into the publique assemblies to make then ether rules to bind the conscience and so put them in the place of Gods booke or to reade them ouer for praying is but a matter of order well then put them in your cornerd Capp we haue enough rules for the ordering of Christs spouse without such Babilonish ware Here you say mine experience is not so great as my boldnes I passe not to be iudged of you yt is not like that the enchaunters of egipt should knowe the beautye of Sion ther is a cloude betweene you and vs we haue blessed be our God a pillar of fire before vs. An other fault you say in my former reason is that because the censure of the Church should redresse defaultes therfore ther needeth no liturgie Naye take all with you No fault caÌ„ be censured that is not a transgression against the rules of Gods worde and those to be censured by the doctrine and admonitions of the Church theâ—fore we neede no leiturgies To the worde of God only ought all meÌ„ to be bounde by covenant and for the transgressions therof only to be censured G. Gifford The Church hath this power to ordeine according to Gods worde to appointe such orders in matters of circumstance c. as shall most fitly serue to edification And then these orders being established the Church is to driue men to the obseruation of them I. Greenvvood FIrst in this your papisticall mudde I must tell you your reading of meÌ„s writinges for prayer is a false worship of God and not a matter of circumstance And for matters of order and circumstance which are no part of the worship ther can be no other lawes made of theÌ„ theÌ„ Christ hath made As for ordeyning of lawes in the church it is to plead for vnwritten verities and to make the lawe of God vnsufficieÌ„t nether caÌ„ yt be according to the worde to make anie lawe that God hath not made but an adding to his worde which is execrable pride these your wordes then according to Gods worde was but a cloake to couer the grosseues of your position for the worde ordeyne or create lawes is to make some that are not made before let vs theÌ„ see your cleane sentence to be this The Church hath aucthority in matters of order circumstance to make ordeine lawes in his Church for his worship nowe see how you contradict these Scriptures Rev. 22.18.19 Prov. 30.5.6 euerie worde of God is pure etc. put nothing to his worde least he reprooue thee aÌ„d thou be found a liar likwise Deut. 4.2 and 12.32 and Gal. 3.15 though it be but a mans covenant when it is confirmed no man doth abrogate it or superordeine anie thing to it And the second CommaundemeÌ„t forbiddeth anie such humane tradition in the worship of God all the Popes trinckets might be brought in by the same grounde We would willingly haue seene your warraÌ„t for this doctrine your bare worde is not sufficient to impose other lawes then God hath made vpoÌ„ his Church This is the foundation of poperie and Anabaptistrie to giue libertie to make lawes in the worship of God Yet you will go furder that such lawes being ordeyned and established by publique auctoritye the discipline and censures of the CHVRCH are to driue men to the observation of the same By your iudgment our
commandement the others hearts going with the wordes aÌ„d saying Amen they that heare pray not as wel as he that according to Gods ordinance speaketh our publique prayers are not the prayers of the Church but of him that speaketh only But now God hath otherwise taught 1. Cor. 14. aÌ„d Acts. 4. yt must needs be that Mr. Giss is in great error to thinke none but he that speaketh prayeth I take then such hearing of an others voyce praying aÌ„d this to be a foule error to publish the contrarie but that prayer both edifieth him that speaketh and him that heareth and together in heart prayeth I make no doubt Yet herevpon to affirme that here are other meanes of instruction to be vsed in the instant action of praying then praying yt self were as grosse as the other and both a confounding of spiritual exercises and flat contradiction of the Scripture especially so diverse weightie actions of minde and bodie as proseuche aÌ„d anagnosis powring out our hearts to God in prayer and reading At other times I did not only allow but teach that we haue al the dayes of our lyves need to be instructed to pray aright and that reading is a blessed meanes therevnto So that you see whiles you of purpose will oppose you runne your self vpon the rocke in stead of justifying your accusatioÌ„ of two heresies to be found in my first reason you haue published this follie which you must retract if you wil obey the truth Mr. Giffard theÌ„ granting that reading is but to help to prayer and not praying aÌ„d now being shewed that it caÌ„ be no help in that instant action of praying let vs proceede to pervse an other of his mistakings and willful peruertings I affirming that the holy Ghost neuer enioyned vs to any certaine nuÌ„ber of words by stint and limitatioÌ„ in praying as commanding the very words to be said ouer wheÌ„ we pray he euery where in his wrytings as a supposed foundatioÌ„ to their Leitourgie and Collects alledged out of Numbers the 6. Mat. 6. Lu. 11. exaÌ„ple of Psalmes aÌ„d now Deu. 26. that the Lord did by coÌ„maÌ„demeÌ„t binde theÌ„ to those verie words saiing ouer wheÌ„ they prayed or blessed in those formes which are there prescribed For my reasons in disproving this popish carnal coÌ„ceipt I refer the Reader to my former answeare to his plublished pretended defence of reading for praying One reasoÌ„ was draweÌ„ froÌ„ the words of the text Numb 6.32 where the hebrew words Coh Tebaraâ—u thus shal you blesse do not import a tying theÌ„ to the verie words of this forme in blessing but to the rules and instructions there taught them concerning the matter yt self for their direction which I collected by this word Coh which is an adverb of similitude signifiing with vs as much as after this maner and therfore caÌ„not be â—o say the same words but according to the same instructions Where first he reprocheth me for that Tebaracu was false printed therevpon chardging me I cannot reade twoo words right of hebrue which were no great ignominie in their priesthood But shall we say Mr. Giff. cannot reade two words in latine rightly because in the 28. page of his booke he repeateth out of Augustine upoli sui for populi sui This I mention as sory to see the defendor of his false Hierarchie so emptie to leaue founde doctrine and thus to trifle if he had bene at the print it should haue bene ameÌ„ded it seemeth Now to the doctrine gathered of this word Coh Mr. Gif would invert the words in his owne seÌ„se thus that where I said the Lord did not coÌ„maund to say the same words but the like that is according to those directions of doctrine he gathereth that I should affirme yt vnlawfull to vse those words at all yea that they might not vse all or anie of these words at anie tyme Whether this be a Christian interpretation of my words or no I leaue not only to all mens but chieflie to his owne conscience to be considered Yet he still couertly persisting in his error produceth a place of scripture where the word Coh as he thinketh is vsed for the saying of the verie words Exod. The Lord said to Moses Thus shalt thou say vnto the children of Israel Eheie hath sent me vnto yee moreouer God said vnto Moses thus shalt thou say vnto them The God of your Fathers etc. According to Mr. Grenewoods interpretation saith he Moses is not commanded to say those words but the like True he is not here bound to this certeine number of words or the same words If then they should say what is his name that hath sent thee he may not say Eheie hath sent me because God said Coh etc. Now Mr. Giffard sheweth himself ashifter I did neuer hold it vnlawfull to vse anie wordes of the Scripture as need required it is your sclander where you have in all your bookes affirmed we hold it vnlawfull to say thy kingdome come or vse anie phrase of Scripture to right vse your woeful wresting of the tongue for vntruthes wil tourne to your further iudgment I proued only by the word Coh which signifieth after this maner that God commaunded not the very certaine number of words to be said And where I sayd the word Coh was so vsed in all the Prophets when they say Thus saith the Lord to this end that neither the holy Ghost had registredal their verie words they spake nor that they were tyed to the prescript number of words he would haue it thought I should hold those words which are recorded not to be the words of God which wresting of my words is but his emptie quarreling to turne away this firme doctrine namely that God did in those formes of prayer mentioned by him prescribe the somme of their blessings aÌ„d petitions whervnto they ought according to their seuerall occasions within the limits of these doctrines frame their suites and desires aÌ„d did not tye them to a certaine number of words Now he finding himself pressed in that al his proofes are at once brought to be weapoÌ„s against him rather then warrant It being prooved vnto him that those formes are repeated in other words in other places and that the Priests vsed other in blessing the people as Eli blessed Hanna also that the Apostles vsed other words in prayer and neuer that verie forme and number of words he playnly denyeth that our question was about the bynding and limiting to the verie words by commandement and saith our question was whither it were idolatrie to vse those prescript phrases or no. Thus the man is sled not only contradicting all his writinges making voide his proofes but granting as much as I affirmed vpon the word COH hath gyven mee the whole cause against â—is will For if these places will not serue to prove an apportioning by number and stint vpon commandement then Mr. Gissard hath no profe for his Collectâ— no though these had bene so yet his patched
broken mass booke shoulde haue bene far from comming in place of true prâ—yer But that this is a popish dreame to think in prayer they were bound to some certeyne number of words saying ouer it was also conuinced vnto him by the Greeke word Houtos where Christ commandeth his Disciples saying When you pray pray thus Our Father c. Which word Thus Mat. 6.9 singnifieth after this maner or according to this forme rules and instructions for if the commandement shoulde goe to bynde vs to the very words then this word when you pray would bynd vs never to vse other words for the text saith when you pray say thus To this he answereth that respecting the rules for matters when is as much as whensoeuer you pray because we may not depart from those matters conteyned in those general petitions But in words it is not so there We must consider to distinguish etâ—3 Wel hath he not lost himself and still against his will yeilded the matter namely that wee are not in these formes of prayer bound to the verie words saying ouer and that the holy Ghost did neuer by commandement stint or limit vs to anie words in praying which in deed is common with inchanters And I take it he will easily yeild me this point for if he remember Augustine to teach that then we pray that prayer which Christ taught his Disciples when our prayers are grounded vpon those doctrines and instructions or to that effect And Calvine to say the Sonne of maÌ„ would not prescribe vs what words we must vse in prayer he should haue put vs to lesse trouble So that besids his mass-booke was neuer prescribed by the Lord himself or warrant of his word he seeth it vnlawful to apportion limit and stint as by measure and waight certeine numbers of wordes senteÌ„ces etc. in prayer As for his examples of the Psalmes I refer to my former answere namely that praying is our thing and singing a psalme an other Now then we haue heard that reading is not praying or any help to pray in the instant action of praying when we should powre forth our owne hearts to God Also that it is vnlawful to bynde maÌ„ to numbers of words or sentences in praying Let vs come to the first generall argument which is this No Apocrypha must be brought into the publick assemblies for there only Gods word and the lively voyce of his owne graces must be heard in the publick assemblies But mens wrytings and the reading them ouer for prayer are Apocrypha Therfore may not be brought into the publick assemblies eyther for lawes or worship Here hee finds fault with the worde Apocrypha although it hath bene an antient word in this sense and now published in their Bibles to distinguish other writings from the authentick scriptures willing mee to goe to the matter yt self drawing by firme conclusion that nothing is to be allowed any place in the Church which is not the perfect rule yt self in writing or without errour vttered in speach and he wil yeild This I did proue vnto him by an Argument hee was not able to answere and did leaue out the word Apocrypha thus Only the Canonical Scriptures and liuely voice of Gods owne graces are to be brought into the publick assemblies for doctrine and prayer But mens writings or Collections are neither Canonical Scripture nor the liuely voice of Gods graces in such as he hath appointed to speake in the publick asseÌ„blies Therfore no mans writings may be brought into nor imposed vpon the publick assemblies for doctrine and prayer Now where he cauilleth about the perfectnes of the rule and absolute perfectnes of the graces it doth not help him For the word of GOD being of necessitie by the lawe and ordinance of God to be read in our owne language I trust he will not denye yt to be the written word of GOD for the vnperfectnes of the translation being to the best search the Church can make skanned by the original tongue and stil amended or at least the Church no further bound to yt then yt shal be found to be the perfect rule so likewise the liuely voice of GODS graces are not for the imperfectnes to be excluded being God 's appointed ordinance neither is anie fault in the translation to be allowed and errour in doctrine or prayer are presently to be admonished and repented of Maister Giffard then must denye the Bible translated into our owne language to be the Canonicall Scriptures and denye the liuely voice of GODS lawfull officers and such as are therevnto called in doctrine and prayer to be the manifestations of the Spirit and vtterance of Gods graces for the assemblie or els grant the proposition firme And if hee can put dead mens writinges into the place of either of these I will yeild In the meane time I hold such translations to be the worde of GOD and by Gods ordinance put into our owne laÌ„guage to all our knowledges retayning the words of GOD which word and the lyuely vse of Gods owne graces in the mouth of such as he therevnto appointeth are only to be brought into the publicke assemblies for prayer and doctrine for GOD hath commanded these vnto vs as his owne ordinances in his assemblies and no other means wherby either God speaketh vnto vs or his people vnto him in the Congregation To this all the Scriptures beare witnesse the word is always firme confirmed with miracles from heauen and commended to vs by Christ the Prophetts and Apostles to be the foundation Canon light lanterne etc. the graces of the Spirit gyven for the interpretation prayer doctrine etc. Christ is ascended vp into heauen and hath giuen giftes vnto men to serve their tyme and minister in their place in this house These graces stil renewed not only in those called of GOD in this seruice for their dayly administration but newe workmen thrust forth into this haruest as the Lord of the house disposeth which graces of his Spirit are compared to two oliue branches which emptie out of themselues thorow two golden pipes Zacharie 4.12 And to seuen thunders which vtter their voices that cannot be written Away therfore with your patched mass-booke yt may neither stande for a foundation in Gods house nor for the lyuely voyces of these thunders you make yt a monstrous Idoll by putting yt in either of these vses yet you will make yt serve for both Wee haue nothing to do with your matters of order as you vnderstaÌ„d that order for tyme place etc. wee reason of the Spirituall action yt self when wee entreat of the meanes whereby God speaketh to vs and appointeth vs to speake vnto him Wee can cast out the errours in the translatioÌ„ or doctrine or prayer and yet reeaine Gods worde in our owne language and the liuely voice of his graces in the â—assemblie When you can do so with your deuises and newe hatched Leitourgies wee will giue eare vnto you and them till
of such as he hath appointed to be the mouth of the Congregation vnto him aÌ„d his mouth vnto theÌ„ So that your patched Leitourgie paraphrases songes in rime homelies and al your dead mens writings are cast forth of the publick assemblies and manifest to be Idols when they are thrust into that place Now where I â—â—ledged that the binding of the publick asseÌ„blie yea of all assemblies to certeyne writings of men euerie day and yeare their number and portion of words daylie moÌ„thly and yearely in al asseÌ„blies the same matter and words reiterated in sâ—ead of powring forth their hearts vnto God according to their present needs and occasions was a setting of themselves in Gods seate and taking the office of his Spirit which only knoweth the wantes of the seueral assemblies according to their diuerse occasions he runneth away from the matter as one vnwilling to heare of this their Tautologia and counterâ—et babling demaÌ„ding wheter euerie one should vtter their owne perticular wantes in the publick assemblie or should pray nothing but that euerie one feeleth the present want of in himself or should tell the Minister before hand what euerie one of their wantes were then how the Minister should remember al. Are these any thing but mâ—re cauils can any of these follow vpon the former doctrine And let him looke againe whether he that is the mouth of the Congregation vnto God in publick prayer must not consider the present publick occasions of that publick assemblie and thereafter frame his prayers all the people ioyning in heart to his words of petition or thanksgiuing saying Amen to so much as he asketh according to the wil of God and neede of the time yea and if they haue not feeling in such prayers they are vnfeeling members yet neither doth he intermedle with private or secret waÌ„tes neither neede they tell him them he is sent for the publick affaires of the Church to commend the seueral actions general and publick vnto God And as they are diverse in everie assemblie so must he be a maÌ„ of wisdome to know see and consider them lest they al rashly step into the house of God to offer vp the sacrifie of fooles and make a counterfeit babling Eccle. 4. Yet the sinne of this is nothing comparable to the doâ—ng your Priests cast forth by pratling ouer your English Portuis which the Lord will one day cast in your faces As then in priuate prayer we are to lay forth our owne wantes and estate of our owne soule which cannot be done by reading an other mans writings alwayes singing one song customably repeating in superstition certeine words our hearts neuer ripped vp examined nor the diseases therof layd open vnto God seeking due cure So the man that is the mouth of the whole assemblie prayeth as the mouth of one bodie for al their open publick present wantes and occasions Which occasions considering the persons and actions are diverse and cannot be written for one assemblie before hand muchlesse for all assemblies in a whole kingdome neither by man nor Angel See theÌ„ the mockerye of your service booke and what Idolatrie is committed by yt to the abandoning true prayer according to the present wantes and occasion The next thing to be coÌ„sidered is about making of lawes in the worship of God Where he would persuade vs that their whole Leitourgie conteining al their publick worship gouernmeÌ„t offices and ordinances of their Church be but matters of order and conveniencie Then the compelling and teaching the publick assemblie to reade ouer mens writings both as CanoÌ„s and lawes in the Church aÌ„d publickly aÌ„d priuately to offer them vp in stead of true prayer aÌ„d holy invocatioÌ„ is a matter of comelines and conveniencie In the meane time it must be a turning away of the whole order and ordinaÌ„ces of God For what is the whole Testament of Christ but an order for euerie office person action in the Church if he wil haue it taxis and then must confesse their Leitourgie an other order of publick administratioÌ„ and so as I haue said an other Gospel an other Testament a setting vp an other worship And herevpon I trust I may cal al this an adding to the word of God yea I wil go a litle further an abolishing and disabling and dishonoring of the word yt self and graces of his spirit And whither all this smoke of the bottomlesse pyt may not be reproued with these Scriptures not only Proverb 30. verse 5.6 Deut. 4. verse 32 but also Revel 22. verse 18 19. let the godly ponder and search and let the fearefulnes of the threats deterre all flesh from presuming to alter the ordinances lawes and worship of the most high God And that the verie reading of an other mans writing for my owne prayer or the prayer of the Church in stead of powring foorth our owne hearts is a changing of the whole worship into the making mens writing an Idoll which is by these places condemned as an accursed sinne let the most hard text as he in carnall wonder exclaymeth be looked into Revel 22. verse 18.19 The words are plaine If anie man put or add any thing vnto these or if anie man take away from these words he shal be iudged as followeth Now if the adding an other whole Worship and suppressing of that God hath apointed be not an adding to these things written gyue sentence as you wil answere O saith he but it is said God wil add vnto such al the plagues written in this booke and there is in this booke mentioned the lake of fire As though the lake of fire is not due for euery sinne and yet not euery one that committeth sinne to be condemned what sinne is it that deserueth not the eternall wrath of God yet not euery one that sinneth giueÌ„ ouer to that iudgmeÌ„t for eiâ—her yt may be of ignorance or of negligence and washed away by repentance in the blood of Christ or it may be repented of and lest when wee see yt Mr. Giffard hath read wel the curses of the law and all the curses due for sinne that seeth not how many curses the law and the Prophets pronounced vpon sinne to call the persons themselues to repentance shewing together the equitie of Godâ— law and yet withal the free mercye of God to al that truly repeÌ„t their euil wayes All that receiue the Beastes marke in their hand or forehead are thretned to be cast with the Beast and false Prophet into that lake yet i doubt not but manie that haue bene so seduced into that sinne shal by repentance be saued Not that I encourage anie to continue in such fearful estate to hardeÌ„ their hearts against the threatnings of GOD but that I would haue Maister Giffard to put difference betwene the curse layd to the sinne and condemnation of the person sinning And seeing he taketh that lake a perticular seuere threat to the Apostasie vnder ANTICHRIST I would he had the grace to
superstition or custome as God had not inioyned them and to leaue vndone the lawes and commandements of God which sinne is your transgression at this day Reade therfore the 7. of Marke and 15. of Mathew more diligently Further those superstitious traditioÌ„s Gal 4. and Colos. 2. the observing wherof were the denyall of Christ were neither held meritorious nor iustification sought by them manie of them being Iewish ceremonies sometimes as rudiments commanded of God now abolished and no further burden to be layde in such outward thinges no We reade not that the law of God yt self was eyther commanded or so observed as to seeke righteousnes by yt Now then to the matter Mr. Giff. thinketh Christ and his Apostles did well in refusing to obey the traditions of the Fathers at the Pharisies commandement and so must confesse it lawful and a dutie of vs to refuse to observe your Iewish cerimonies and Romish superstitious traditions which are so manie as euen your whole Leitourgie and worship conteine nothing els God 's lawes and ordinances not only left vndone but al that pleade for them and seeke to walke in them persecuted with deadly hatred And how Mr. Giffard will proue that there is no adding or diminishing to or from the word of God by imposing and creating more lawes theÌ„ God hath made in his worship and gouernmeÌ„t of his Church but such as bee made part of the worship or bynde the conscieÌ„ce or bee meritorious or against such rules of his gouernment as bee perpetuall though I take all your orders lawes worship in this compasse yet howe you can poue this I know not for looke againe vpon the scriptures Pro. 30.5.6 Deut. 4.2 and 12.32 and Gal. 3.15 Revel 22.18.19 and you shal finde that to add superordeine innovate or diminish or take anie thing from the lawes of God already prescribed for his worship were to abrogate his lawe to laye further burdens then hee hath layde to make his lawe vnperfect and set our selves in his seate yea whatsoeuer wee put to which hee hath not commanded or whatsoeuer wee inhibit that hee hath commanded is here forbidden For this saith the Lorde Ye shall put nothing vnto the word which I command you neither shall you take ought therefrom that you may keepe the preceptes of the Lorde your God which I commande you Deut. 4.2 And that this was as well in the outwarde ordinaÌ„ces of the Temple as in the iudgments is plaine in the first verse Againe in the 12. Chap. 32. Whatsoeuer I command you take heede you do yt Thou shalt put nothing therto nor take anie thing therfrom and in the Proverbs Euerie word of God is pure put nothing vnto his wordes lest hee reproue the aÌ„d thow bee found a lyer Now the scripture speaking so absolutely and generaly against al addition or detraction to or from his ordinances Mr. Giffard ouershooteth himself of his bare word to contradict and limit so expresse commandementes for these Scriptures saith hee are against adding of humane preceptes and lawes to bee kept as partes of Gods worship to bynde the conscience to seeke righteousnes forgeuenes of sinne merit in them or against such rules of gouernmeÌ„t as God hath set to be perpetuall This is true but this is not all for the lawe is generall against all inventioÌ„s traditions constitutions whatsoeuer God hath not commanded as the second Commandment doth also teach Thou shalt not make to thy self etc. so that God hath left nothing to be layde vpon his Church by commandement Which he hath not commanded And therfore that place of the Apostle to the Gal. 3.15 must be better pervsed If it be but a mans Testament when yt is confirmed no man doth abrogate yt or superordeine anie thing to yt CHRISTS Testament then being much more perfect his whole minde for the ordering of his house manifested therin it is wicked presumption to alter the ordinances thereof or to holde them vnmeete or vnsufficient for anie age or estate Well Mr. Giffard coulde nowe bee content thus far to limit the power of the Church namelie to haue her subiect and obedient to his voice but that he supposeth there may be lawes ecclesiastical made of things in themselues indifferent that where the scripture hath commanded such things to be vsed at our libertie for order for comelynes edification and glorye of God as matters of place time and such circumstance But hee here mistaketh his text for the Lorde commandeth by the Apostle in that place â— Corint 14. that those publique busines and exercises of the assembliâ—s shoulde be done in order in comlynes to edifying and doth not leaue somthing to bee commanded which the maister buylders hath not prescribed For to binde those thinges by lawe which God hath not bound in his worship were to add newe traditioâ—s to bring vs into bondage of the creatures which the same Apostle denyeth euer to bee brought into bondage vnto 1. Cor. 6.12 in his owne person teaching vs so to walke the Lord see in his wisdome cause to leaue them in our libertie knowing there woulde bee no end of such perticular lawes especially if he had left it to mans wyt to make and vnmake lawes therin For the orders you speake of then meaning circumstances of time place kneeling sitting standing etc. there can be no further lawes of them then the Apostle hath set and as the Minister of Christ prescribed that al be donne to edifying in comlynies order etc. Of theis to set perticular lawes were to break these generall lawes of God whereby he teacheth vs the true vse of them and leaueth them in the Churches libertie as need requireth to vse them or not vse them Neither can all assemblies bee bound in these thinges to the same in perticular that being needfull and decent in one that is not in an other And in that you woulde haue them no further commanded then they bee needfull convenient decent etc. you condiscend that there can bee no setled lawe in perticular layde vpoÌ„ the Church in theÌ„ For to vse them so far as they bee convenient necessarie and to edifijng is the lawe and commandement of God and to vse them further at anie mans commandement were both a breach of Gods lawe and making the creatures stumbling blockes Idolles bondages and euerie way sinnefull And when the Church commandeth them so far to be vsed as they are commanded of God the Churche doth but ratifye and see GODS lawe executed so that you haue lost your selfe whiles you sholde haue proued your bold affection That the Church hath power to ordeyne lawes for to create or make lawes which you see the folly of being nowe driuen to another shift that in the perticular thinges whereof GOD hath giuen generall lawes wee may make setled lawes and yet but for the tyme they be convenient Wheras in deed GODS lawe is the same and nothing ells But because they bee necessarye in one place that bee not in another
number yet it is expressed in some other verse that yt is so But now admit that you could proue that the psalmes were read insteade of or for invocatioÌ„ which you shall neuer be able to do it doth not followe that meÌ„s writinges shoud be brought into the assemblies and read for praier The 6. of NoÌ„bers I haue answerd before FroÌ„ the 92. Psalme you reason thus If the psalmes other formes of prayer in the Scrìpturés were read or said by rote the verie forme of wordes for praying The reading instead of or for praying Here you durst not set your assumption it was so false which should be thus But the Psalmes other formes of prayer were read for praying c. This I shewed you was verie vntrue they were neuer coÌ„maunded so to be vsed nor never so vsed My proof was this they are giueÌ„ by the holy Ghost for other vses as singing reading etc. aÌ„d not comaunded anie where so to be vsed so that you do but cauill not hauing one proof for all your shameles assertioÌ„s Now where I demaunded what this made for your liturgies aÌ„d reading meÌ„s writinges for praying except you would make your owne writinges of equall authoritie with the Scriptures You aÌ„swere That if I denie the coÌ„sequence it was lawfull to use the Psalmes therfore mens writings theÌ„ I wil shut out all praiers eueÌ„ the prayer of the Pastor See your carnall handling shuffling and coÌ„founding Gods ordinances Doth yt followe that because meÌ„s writinges may not be brought into the publique asseÌ„blies or there read for praying therfore the prayers vttered by the liuely voice of the pastor should herebie be excluded this your shift was answered in the first ArgumeÌ„t your cavils are stale you are againe convinced Touching the other matter of coÌ„ning phrases aÌ„d formes of praier by roate to say ouer certeine number of wordes yt is popish and a meere euasioÌ„ and bewrayeth your ignoraÌ„ce in praier In this you haue granted me that he which prayeth not with a feeling of his preseÌ„t waÌ„ts of his soule but saith ouer certeine number of wordes of custome or affectatioÌ„ he is an hipocrite which is true proved Mat 6.7 Now by this examine your daylie monethlie annuall etc. saying ouer nay reading ouer certeine wordes euery tyme the same as you are stinted It is plaine the sacrifice of fooles Ecclesiastes 4.17 The two pointes wherin you protest so willinglie to agree with me were these First whether only such prayers as were made without the booke were accepted of Gods childreÌ„ Secondly whether the same spirit teacheth vs to pray that taught the holie men of God before tyme. You grant both these but that you would seeme to alter the first question wel then God 's owne spirit that taught theÌ„ to pray without a booke or stinting of wordes teacheth vs so to pray nowe and in the action of praying giueth the mouth to vtter what the heart desireth moved with the same spirit Still then after your long shifting to and fro I trust you will stand to your first wordes that you never read in the Scriptures anie coÌ„maundement for reading of prayers Secondlie to say ouer certeine numbers of words or phrases of the Scripture of custome or affectatioÌ„ without feeling of or asking for our present wantes is hipocresie Therfore I will conclude as I beganne myne Argument standing good that To do any thing in the worship of God werof we have no warraÌ„t of Gods worde is synne But read prayers haue no warrant in Gods Word Ergo. etc. The third Argument We may not in the worship of God receaue anie tradition which bringeth our libertie into bondadge Read praier vpon commandement brought into the publique assemblies is a tradition that bringeth our libertie into bondage Therfore read prayer c. The Minor is thus proved that God hath left it in all mens freedome to pray as the present occasion requireth and the spirit giveth vtterance according to his will Againe no man hath power to commaunde anie thing in the worship of God which God hath not coÌ„maunded etc. Marke 7.7.8.9 Mat. 15. Gal. 5 1. etc. G. Gifford I say it is vngodlie and neere vnto blasphemie to affirme that prescript forme of prayer is a tradition bringing our libertie into bondage c. my reason was is that the Lord by Moses prescribed a forme of blessing c. Nom 6. the Prophetes in the Psalmes have prescribed manie formes of prayer Our Sauiour Christ prescribed a forme of praier c. I. Greenvvood HEre is a greate storme and yet nothing but wynde If you were in Caiâ—has his place you would either have rent your clothes for zeale or els condemne me before you vnderstand what I say Is yt simple dealing do you thinke to say I hold it a bondage breaking our libertie for the Lord by Moses 〈◊〉 Prophetes our Sauiouâ— Christ also to set downe a forme of praier or to prescribe a forme of praier Did you not see that the Minor PropositioÌ„ speaketh of the reading for praing and not of the forme of prayer Agayne of the commandement wher by men are compelled to reade instead of praying Did you not see that these wordes brought in to the publique assemblies did specifye the matter to be mens writtings to be read in the assemblies as a worship yea invocation of Gods name which is a grosse mockery Not that ther is any Commandement to reade ouer those formes of praier mentioned by you for praying and so the CoÌ„mandement so to reade them for praying is an abuse of them and a Commandement of men and not of God etc. But that much more odious yt is to bring in mens writtings into the publique assemblies proved vnlawfull in the first argument and then to commit Idolatrie with them by reading them instead of praying and that to coÌ„pell men by Commandement wher God had set no Commandement 〈◊〉 vse them was a bringing all men into bondage of popish traditions So that your common recitall of these places of Scripture is abuse of them and you do but palinodian canere I thincke if you get St. IHONS gospell about your necke as the Papists you wil thincke you haue religion ynough The more fearful is your Apostacy you proceede from euill to worse G. Gifford About the Commaunding a prescript forme of prayer to be vsed our Church doth agree with all godly Churches yea the reformed Churches haue and do practize the same here therfore I wish the reader to obserue that you Brovvnists do not only condemne the Church of England but all the reformed Churches whatsoeuer and can be no other but Donatistes I. Greenvvod I Trust your madnes will appeare to all men the poyson of Aspes is vnder your tongue he that cannot rule his tongue his Religion is in vayne Shall I in your heaâ—e be pressed with multitude of Churches theÌ„ heare what the Lorde saith Thou shalt not followe a multitude to do euill we have the worde amongst
vs we shall by that worde be either iustified or condemned Then either proue your matter from te Schriptures or els giue eare to the Scripture If those Churches you speake of bring mens writinges in to the publique assemblies et in force them to be read for praying I would see their warraÌ„t we belieue not because men say so or do so but because God speaketh And where he speaketh al men must besilent You may accuse â—ther Countries as you wil I knowe not their estate but your drudgery insteade of true worship is lothsome the Priest with his masse-booke and begger with his clapdisch canuize ouer the Pater noster for their bellie which is your com-mon worship with other trinckets We shall speake of a Liturgie in due place Here you breath out your accustomed lyes sclanders and 〈◊〉 First you terme vs Brownists and Donatists wheras I neuer conuersed wit the men nor their writings I detest Donatus his heresies And if they had beene instruments to teach vs anie truth we were not therfore to be named with their name we were baptized into Christs Browne is a member of your Church your brother and al Brownists do frequent your assemblies And here you wish the reader to consider that I condemne all reformed Churches do I condemne all Churched for reprouing a sinne by Gods wordes May not the true Churchâ—â— if they were such err Did I affirme at anie tyme thaâ— they were no true Church that vsed read prayers remember your self you knowe who is the Father of such vntruthes But because your Conscience bare you witnesse you had wrongfully chardged me and for me all true Christians you bring yt in by necessary consequence thus you affirme say you prescript formes of prayer brought into the publique assemblies to be the changing the worke of the Spirit into an idoll a tradition breaking Christian libertie a deade letter queÌ„ching the Spirit c and therfore most detestable But all reformed Churches recieue and vse it c. â— therfore You caÌ„ reason well to bring the thruth into conteÌ„pt your mouth to open and tongue wher as a sworde therunto If the proposition be true drawe what consequence you wil it is yours an not myne if the doctrine be true yt is Gods worde that giueth sentence against the sinne And if you haue 〈◊〉 sparâ—â—e of grace procure that we may decide the truth with other Churches Doth it follow that because imposing of mens writinges to be read for praying is an â—ynous synne therfore they that vse yt are no Church If I should say so I should iustlie be called an Anabaptist And here you accuse me to pleade for such a freedome in the Church that nothing be receaued which is imposed by commaundement Abaddon is the Father of such Prophets Doth yt follow that because we would haue â—he Church free from al traditions of men which haue no warrant in Gods worde that therfore we would not receaue Gods ordinances by Commaundement That we ought to receaue nothing by Commaundement in the worship of God which God hath not commaunded the secoÌ„d coÌ„maundement with the Scriptures I haue rehearsed are euident Deut 5.32 33. Mat. 25.2.3 Gal. 4.9 Collos. 2.20 But seing your self graueled considering all the world cannot lay a Commandement to bring theiâ— owne inventions into the assemblies wher God hath laide none but forbidden yt you ranne to your former places of Scripture to wrast them as before where your collections are but vaine repetitions of that which hath beene coÌ„vinced before Moses the Prophets etc. prescribed formes of prayers therfore men now may thrust their writings into the publique assemblies Your Argument is denied and yet here is no warraÌ„t for the reading them ouer for prayer G. Gifford The Church hath povver to expounde those prayers mentioned in the Scriptures and to apply them to their seuerall necessities c. I. Greenvvood If you meane by expounding the breaking vp off them by doctrine and by doctrine and prayer to aplye theÌ„ to the seueral vses of the church by liuely voyce far be yt from me to thinke otherwise But if you meane by expounding to make homilies vpon them or liturgies by writing to be thrust vpon the publique assemblies you are wide and now iustifie homilies instead of preaching and written prayers instead of praying shew your warrant The CHâ—â—CHES power is limited by the word G. Gifford When the prayers be framed and composed of nothing but the doctrine of the Scriptures and after the rules of true prayer nothing is brougâ— in which God hath not commaunded I. Greenvvood THis might have come in before your raylings but you sawe yt was too silly where is that commaundement of God that all meÌ„s wriâ—tinges in forme of prayer agreable to the Scriptures should bâ— brought into the publique assemblies your bare worde is not enough tâ— put 〈◊〉 to silence And when you have gott them into the Church yoâ— must prove that GOD hath commaunded they should be read foâ— praier Where I said our Sauiour Christ neuer vsed the wordes when hâ— praied of that forme of praier he gaue to his Disciples nether coÌ„mauâ—â—ded his Disciples to say ouer these wordes nether do we reade thaâ— euer his Apostles did use them or enforced others to vse anie certein number of wordes you say I speake vntrulie For say you the Disciple desired him to teach them to pray as Iohn taught his Disciples anâ— he commaunded them when you pray say Our Father etc. Luke 1â— and S. Math. an Apostle hath deliuered the same to the whole Church I answer I haue never heard that Ihon Baptist taught his Disciples to say ouer certeyne wordes nether can yt be gathered by our Sauiour Christes answere for he answeared not alwaies their verie demaunde according to their wordes but thervpon tooke occasioÌ„ to instruct them as he sawe neede And I haue proued by the 6. of Math. that our Sauiour did not commaunde them to say ouer the very wordes when they prayd for the word Houtos in Mathew signifieth after this maner Againe that Math. recordeth not the very number or the very same wordes that Luke doth And now I reason thus if Christ had commaunded those very wordes to be said ouer in praying then we must alwaies wheÌ„ we pray say ouer those wordes for in Math. â— he saith when you pray pray thus Our Father etc. The word when sheweth that this commaundement is to be observed at all tymes And then the Apostles sinned in praying other wordes Acts. 4.24.25 Furder yt being the most summary forme of prayer most ample most perfect etc. if those wordes were commaunded to be said ouer then we ought not to vse any others for he is accursed that bringeth not the best offringâ— he hath Malach. 1.14 By all these yt is euident that our Sauiour nor his Evangelists tyed no man to the very wordes saying ouer but according to that forme and those instructions and now leaue of your popish dreames
doubted what is this then but to deceaue your Reader both to iudge sinisterlie of me and be drawen from the truth himself But indeede you meane not this holden by force of ciuile bondadge or persequution for then ther were no difference betweene vs ād myne Argument should stand vntouched You affirme then that the Church may stand vnder a false gouernement inforced therunto by the tyranny of the ennemie and yet in that estate be the true apparant Church by open profession which is nothing els then that the Church may professe Christianisme and Antichristianisme both at a tyme subiect in minde to Christ and subiect to Antichrist in outwarde obediēce That you hold this doctrine in this place the processe of your matter proueth and to make all plaine your wordes in the last writing which here you summe vp were these But if the Church at any tyme be by mayne force restrayned from some priuiledges or haue some gouernement set ouer it which agreeth not with GODS worde which it cannot auoide c. See nowe how smoothly this man hath put away the crosse of Christ by teaching men to stand vnder a gouernement contrarye to Christes I thought the ordinances of the newe Testament had beene a kingdome that could not be shaken Heb. 2.28 that none could haue beene a mēber of Christ that receaueth the marcke of the Beast though yt be but in his hand or could be holden a member of Christ by outward profession that here had beene the patience of the Saincts to suffer vnto death rather then to bowe downe either in minde or bodie to an other gouernment then Christs How is he a Lorde to them that are not gouerned by him Well I needed not haue stand vpon this doctrine but that he nether prynted my former answere nor answered in these pointes and myne owne copie taken from me by the Bishops so that this man may retract what he will and accuse as please him if he haue anie common honestie let my former answere be seene But to proue the Church may be subiect to an other gouernement then Christs which is euen to say that a man may gyue all alleageance by outward practize to the Kinge of Spaigne and yet be her Ma◠true subiect He saith the Church was holden captiue in Babilon where he as conningly hideth himself as before though in my last writing I vrged him to answere whether the Church in Babilō was subiect to their Idolatrie or no. To the ciuile power I doubt not they were But if the Priestes and Leuites stood Priests to the Idolatrous worship in Babilon whether the people of Israel bowed downe to the outward practise and obedience of their Idolatrie or no then if they did so whether they stoode by profession the childrē of God or apostatate in that estate None of these thinges haue you answeared me Let the exāples of Hanania Mishaell and Azarin testifie Dan. 3. The people that retourned repented their transgressions wher they had any of them sinned and made a new couenant with the Lorde before they were receaued Ezra 9.14.15 and 10. Cap. 2.3.8 Yea the voyce of God was this come out of her my people ād touche no vncleane thing and I wil be your God We are before thee saith Ezra in our trespasse and we cannot stand before thee because of it You never renounced your Antichristian ministerie you neuer made newe couenant since the deepe defectiō of Poperye but still minister in that kingdome and wil not repent yet boast your selves to be the Church of God cryinge out the Temple the Temple I answeare then directlie that whiles you stād subiect vnto and practize ād communicate with other orders and gouernments then Christes you are not by outwarde professiō the Churches of Christ. I may not with you omitt the worde willfull because you persequute the light and so much higher is your sinne Here I must forewarne the Reader with diligēce to consider Mr. Giffords disagreement and mine he hauing accused me of a fundamētall heresie as he calleth it wheras he himself still maintayneth most grosse errors wher of I reproued him yet he persisteth Namely that the regenerate man may be said to stand in bondage to sinne by reason of the corruption of the fleshe that is in vs ād of our vnperfectnes in this life Then that one standing in outwarde bondage to opē knowē sinne may in that estate be accompted and cōmunicated with as the seruāt of Christ by outward profession both at one instant which is asmuch to say we may be to mās sight the seruaunt of the deuill and the seruaunt of Christ both at one tyme by outward profession so none should be excōmunicate none be without te world ād the church light and darcknes Christ and Belial should be mingled togeather The heresie wherof he most vniustly and vntruly proclaymeth to be mainteyned by vs is that the regenerate man consenteth not to sinne after regeneration although in the last writinge I testified the cōtrary Namely that the whole church might erre might cōmitt some kinde of Idolatrie that no mā was free from cōmitting sinne etc. And now I testifie to all the world that I was neuer infected with anie such Anabaptistry but haue euerie where resisted such dannable heresie I haue learned and taught manie degrees of sinne and differēces of trāsgressions which the deare children of God fall into after regeneration in thought word and deed of ignorance of knowledge of presumptiō slippes transgressions and obstinate sinne Yea that ther is no sinne except ehe sinne against the Holy Ghost but Gods childrē may cōmitt it after regeneration and be renued by repentance which we ought to pray for in all sinners but that one sinne except Not that men should herevpon take boldnes to sinne because God giueth repētance to his elect wherin the riches of his mercy appeareth but rather serue him in trembling and feare as a iealous God least with Esaw we find no place to repentance though we seeke yt with teares Againe though in Gods sight his elected are neuer forsakē vtterlie nor the Holy Ghost vtterly extinguished in the repenerate yet to mans iudgment he that cōmitteth opē knowē sinne and persisteth obstinatly in the same cannot be held the child of God to vs by outward profession but must be cutt of Nombers 15.27.31 Math. 18.17 and 1. Cor. 5. till they repent Much more none that stād opē professed mēbers of te false church subiect by the least outward bowing downe to this antichristiā Hierarchie ād so cōtinuing in bōdage to a false gouernmēt cā be holdē of vs te true professors of Christs Gospel Now let vs peruse te seueral doctrines Mr. Gifford affirmeth that the true church migt stād in bōdage to a false gouernmēt yet in that estate be helde and cōmunicated with as the true Church by outward profession his wordes in waye of proof be these They may with St. Paule say it is no longer I
that do it but sinne that dwelleth in me for if the yoake wherwith he was held captiue in part could not take from him but that he was the Lordes free seruaunt it is no reasoÌ„ that some outwarde bondage should make the Church not to be the spouse of Christ. If a man commaund his wife saith he to do a thinge and ther be violent force to withhold her shee is not to be blamed Rom. 7. Mine answere to this he durst not print but peruerteth my wordes so manie as pleaseth him nether can I yet come by a copie of my former writing to shew what I theÌ„ replyed Now consider what gouernmnet is and what bondage is and then behold the wickednes of this man Spirituall gouernmet is that souereigntie Dominion and regiment that Christ Iesus by his spirit lawes ordinaÌ„ces and officers exerciseth in aÌ„d ouer hys church as yt is writteÌ„ And thou BethleeÌ„ Iuda art not the least among the Princes of Iuda for out of thee shall come a gouernour that shall gouerne my people Israell againe thy Scepter is an uer lasting Scepter I haue set my king vpon Syon my Holy mountaine Mat. 2.6 Psa. 2. and 45. and 110. these lawes aÌ„d ordinaÌ„ces wherby this kinge raigneth are caled a kingdome that caÌ„not be shakeÌ„ Heb. 12.28 they that haue not him to reigne ouer theÌ„ are by outward professioÌ„ none of his If I be your lord where is my honor againe those myne enimies which would not that I should reigne ouer theÌ„ bring bether and slay theÌ„ before me Luke 19.27 Also bondage or seruitude is to be al commaundement and to yeild obedience in subiection Now to be in outward bondage to an other outward government other lawes officers and ordinances then Christs is to be by outward subiection servantes of Antichrist which layeth an other foundation for by outward profession we cannot stand to mans iudgment professed subiects to two kings at enimitye But we must be an enimie to the one and so esteemed of all meÌ„ much lesse members vnto two divers heades This then is mine answere here 1. That it is an heresie to say a man may stand in bondage to open knowen sinne and the free seruaunt of Christ to vs by outward profession both at one instant 2. That it is a falsifying of the Scripture to say that St. Paul in the 7. to the Romanes was in bondage to sinne when he in the inner man resisted sinne and daylie preuailed against the sinne which his flesh would haue led him captiue in if there had not beene a stronger power to ouercome that enimie For he ther reasoneth of the benefite of the lawe to manifest our sinne and our conquest ouer sinne by daylie repentance and reprouing of sinne in our selues fighting against sinne victory ouer sinne thoughe yt contynuallie rebell 3. How blasphemous were yt to contynue in knowen sinne in bondage to yt and to say it is sinne that dwelleth in vs and not we and so still to blesse our selves without amendement O horrible peruertinge of the Scriptures to mens destruction 2. Pet. 3.16.4 That ther is no Argument to be drawen nor consequence to followe from the reliques of sinne and corruption of the fleshe in one man or the whole Church and a professed bondage to al false government no not betweene the open committing of sinne in the whole Church or some mâ—mbers therof and a professed homage and subiection vnto a false gouernment we cannot be partakers with the false Church and true at no hand 1. Cor. 10.21 5. Lastlie that the subiection to an other gouernement is as a wife that committeth adulterie Hosea 2. I then reason thus on the contrary with you Any man that after regeneration committeth open knowen sinne and contynueth obstinate as a bond seruaunt thervnto standeth not the professed seruaunt of Christ but of synne Ezechiel 18. till he repent so the whole Church that persisteth in open knowen sinne and persequuieth the messengers that reproue the same Then as euerie member of the false Church standeth a professed seruaunt of sinne so the whole assemblies that stand professed subiects of false gouernment no censures sf admonition belonging vnto them but calling of them to repentance and seperation from the false Church Then as the wife that geueth her self to be one with an other man is an adulteresse Rom. 7.3 so that Church that subiecteth herself to an other gouernment ordinances and lawes then Christs is an harlot Now lett all men say whether I had not iust cause to say you spake like a carnall libertine and an Athiest yea nowe as one having his conscience â—eared to affirme that the Church remayninge in open knowe bondage to a false gouernment may saye as Paul said it is not I that sinne And that contynuing in that adulterie she is the spouse of Christ by outward profession You would saye it were a false Argument to say the Church hath manie imperfections ignorances transgressions etc. therfore standeth in bondage to sinne nay standeth in bondage to an other heade and an other government then Christs Euen so to saye the Church doth sinne therfore may contynue in bondage to sinne is false doctrine nay to say it may stand in open professed subiection to Antichrist and be esteemed the CHURCH of CHRIST by outward profession in that estate is damnable doctrine It is the flat contradiction of all the rules of the Scripture to say a man may stand in bondage to sinne and the free servauntâ— of Christ by outward profession by mans iudgment at one tyme seing the obstinate offenders are to be cast out of the assemblie But nowe though the regenerate may fall into these highe sinnes and contynue in their sinne a long time yea manie yeares depriued of GODS grace to mans seeming and to vs is the seruant of Satan for anie thing wee see yet the Spirit of GOD is never vtterlie extinguished or departed after regeneration but will recouer the man againe and bring him to repentance as David after a whole yeare for the stronge man once displaced and cast out by a stronger then he the spirit neuer vtterly departeth againe for then yt were impossible that maÌ„ should be renewed Mat. 1.2.31 Heb. 10.26 and 6.4 And herevpon I might saye Paul never contynued captiue in sinne but was alwaies renewed by repentance Furder this spirit of God the sparkes wherof were never quenched vtterlie did not nor could not consent or giue place vnto sinne for here is the enimitye and battel betweene the spirite and the flesh euerie where spoken of Gal. 5,16.17 Rom. 7. May I not now say then that Paul never contynued captiue vnto sinne nor consented vnto sin concerninge the Inner man or gave place vnto sinne in that place mentioned without heresie And still reproue you that when Paul reasoneth of the old man or corruption in him you will conclude yt of the new man or inner man and of the whole man when you see euidently he opposeth the