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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A67624	An answer to certain observations of W. Bridges, concerning the present warre against His Majestie whereby hee pretends to justifie it against that hexapla of considerations, viz. theologicall, historicall, legall, criticall, melancholy, and foolish : wherein, as he saith, it is look't upon by the squint-eyed multitude.	Warmstry, Thomas, 1610-1665.	1643 (1643)	Wing W879; ESTC R38489	56,563	74

we were countenancers of Rebellion and all because we through I was about to say too much charity have tolerated such as you are amongst us It is you Schismaticks not we Protestants that have given this occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme it is you that like Simeon and Levi have made us as much as in you lyeth even to the stinke amongst the Inhabitants of the world when even Papists Turkes and Heathens are ready it may be feared to lay your mischievous opinions and ungodly practises upon us as if Protestants were patrons of Rebellion which we doe abhorre from the very bottomes of our hearts Witnesse the cleare Article of our Church of England And therefore it matters not to us what Papists say or doe in this point it hath beene an old quarrell betweene Papists and us and you may even goe and shake hands with them in this point And yet I see not what great advantage Bellarmine gives you in that you here quote out of him I could direct you to some others of them that speake much more plainly to your purpose and it seemes you are yet but a novice in the study of Rebellion that you are furnished with no more pertinent authorities for what I beseech you doth Bellarmine grant you here truly all is scarce worth thankes for ought I see 1. The place is from Christ alone then take heed how you despise the authority of that place or office which is derived from Christ 2. The person is from the choosers it may be in some sort true in elective Kingdomes but I pray you remember that the Crowne of England is successive and hereditary and therefore none but God is the chooser here so that the person is from him too 3. The union of these two is from Christ but by mediation of an humane act What then though it were granted this would make little for your purpose for if the union betweene the person and the place be from Christ let what humane act soever intercede none but he that makes the union may take upon him to make a separation if that rule of the Apostle be authenticall Those whom God hath joyned let no man put asunder Besides by this act they set him above all their owne power and doe part with that very power unto him which was before in them in designing him for their supreame Governour and you must shew some superiour authority to enable the doing of such an act And now let Protestants have their eyes in their fore-heads and see how grossely you paralogise to deceive both your selfe and others Did you not finde that the people are mad already a man might thinke you would scarce venter such stuffe amongst them But let Papists and Schismaticks hold what they will at their perils we Protestants by Gods grace will live and die in obedience unto God and our Gratious Prince whom God long preserve to the peace of this Kingdome The fourth Consideration you say is criticall I leave you to make good the sense of this title which for my part I am not so good a critick to understand very well But to the matter And herein you seeme to lay downe one exception of the people against the employment of their estates in this present bloudy businesse that you plead for and thereto you returne your answers My money shall not helpe to kill men that you set downe as the voyce of the squint-eyed multitude as you call them And now let us see your answer and indeed here you are liberall that you may teach them to be so you give them two answers for failing and it was but need of your bounty for both will scarce make up halfe a good one one six pence would have beene better then two such slips but what you want in weight it seemes you would make up in number And first you tell them Their money is none of theirs if the Lord the Law the Liberty the Cause or the Defender thereof stand in need thereof no more then the Asse in the Gospel or the bread and beefe of Nabal Theirs in the like case Secondly you tell them that If they hinder the killing or quelling of those who would both kill and quell you yours your Religion Kingdome they become friends of Gods enemies and yours and resolve to make peace with them with whom God is resolved to have warre In your first answer your Thesis is true But it will trouble you to make good your Hypothesis neither are your proofes so cleare and pertinent I shall endeavour to display your argument thus 1. You lay downe this for a ground That where the Lord or the Law or the Liberty or the Cause or the Defenders thereof have need of our estates private mens purses are none of their owne That 's the meaning of your Thesis Your Hypothesis you tearme to be understood and if you speake any thing to the purpose it is this But in the present designe against His Majestie the Lord the Law the Liberty the Cause and the Defenders thereof have need of the peoples money and therefore as the case now stands Their money is not theirs their property ceaseth they have no power to deny Your Thesis you make good by two examples or presidents of holy Scripture The first out of Matthew 21.3 where we find the Asse delivered up for the supply of our Saviours necessity to furnish him for his journey to Hierusalem The second out of the 1 of Samuel the 25. and the 11. where we find David in his necessity desiring supply of Nabal and being denyed by that unthankfull churle going about to revenge himselfe upon him by a resolved plunder and destruction of Nabal and his family 1. Give me leave to say something unto your Thesis and to examine your proofes and then I shall shew the vanity and fals-hood of your hypothesis And first I grant you this with all my heart that every one is bound to part with his private estate where the Lord cals for it or hath need of it either for the procurement of his glory or for the supply of the necessity of the Church or his poore members or where the exigency of the publique requires it for the maintainance of the law the liberty or the publique good for the defence of a good cause and the assertours of it and whosoever doth not part with their estates in a due proportion being legally required preferring the publique good before their private commodity sinnes for the Word of God teacheth us that the Lord is the chiefe proprietary of the whole world and that of him we hold all that we have and are but Stewards of it to his use and for his glory And nature it selfe teacheth us that the good of the parts must yeeld unto the necessitie of the whole body and we find the parts of the universe though senselesse and irrationall putting this rule in practise as they are swayed in their motions

Nation And therefore I could wish there were a Law made for the utter abolishing of both those names as they are now used for names of opposition least the Devill and his complices under the one cast an odium upon the service of God and under the other upon loyalty to our Prince For my part I will endeavour to keepe them both out of my mouth in any such odious acception sith I conceive them to be full of uncharitable non-sens And I am sure you did not well to become the Devils fueller by contributing to the passage of that odious title as it is made whereby you here entitle the Kings Subjects it were more proper worke for you to quench fires then to foment them But we know well enough who you meane and is it necessary then that we must be devoured by the Cavaliers as you call them or the Parliament Is our great expectation of the redresse of our grievances come to this Is this the fruit of two yeares consultation Is this all the advantage that hath beene made unto the poore abused people of the Land of all those large and happy opportunities that have beene afforded this Parliament for the procurement of the good and safety of Church and State that out of our feares and doubts we should be now concluded and shut up unto an unavoidable ruine Sure if it be so we must needs conclude that the wisedome of humane Counsels is not omnipotent and that the Argos eyes of the greatest politique bodies may be sometimes so charmed asleepe as to betray their charge unto danger especially when they intercept the free entercourse betwixt themselves and the head and that there is no confiding even in Parliaments themselves And it may be God is now about to teach us this lesson That we may learne to rely upon none but him and that he hath now suffered us to faile of our hopes that he may instruct us by experience to place them better than upon the wisedome or power of any concurrence of humanity even upon none but upon that indefeatable power and that incorruptible wisedome that is in God himselfe And indeed this lesson if it be well learn't may be worth more to us than any other good that we gaped for since there can be no greater strengthening unto a Nation or People then to teach them to deny all strength in the creature and to cast themselves totally upon God I confesse for my owne part I once thought with the rest That the calling of a Parliament had beene almost that Panchreston that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that universall medicine that would have brought with it a cure for all our diseases Yea and I yet thinke that if we take a Parliament in the right and genuine sense as it is or ought to be an entire body unmaymed unmangled and undivided it is one of the best grounds for a confidence to rest on that the sphere of mortality can yeild us And therefore if we be not altogether indocible the Lord hath hereby taken the most absolute and summary course to beat off our dependance upon any earthly thing that wee can almost possibly imagine since he hath hereby shewed us the fayling of that which of most things that the world can affoord was most likely to yeild an all-sufficiency to our hopes But I could wish if it had pleased God that we might have learn't this document by some more gentle meanes and that we had not deserved to have such a curse sent upon that which we tooke for the greatest of our blessings as to be put into such a miserable strait betweene the devouring jawes of two inevitable destructions like the poore Israelites betweene the Egyptians and the Sea or like the miserable Brittaines infested by the Picts betweene the slaughter of the enemy and the devouring of the waves when they sent that lamentable complaint unto the Romans To Agilius thrice Consull the sighs of the Brittains The enemy drives us to the Sea the Sea drives us backe againe to the enemy so betweene both we are either drowned or slaine but yet we hope better for all your Augury God can open a passage where you can see none for the escaping of both these dangers To conclude this point we have two Answers to your Observation First it is but your groundlesse presumption and surmise or rather it may be your excogitated pretence That if those you speake of should yet be so just as to let men alone with their propriety and liberties they should then necessarily be made a prey both in their goods and lives unto those you stile Cavaliers Nay we doe firmely beleeve that if they might be suffered to retaine their owne and not forced or perswaded by you and your like to contribute to that unjustifiable designe which is on foot they might have a farre more comfortable enjoyment of their estates and lives too by the protection of His Majesties goodnesse and justice then you can promise them by that course you advise them to whether it be that you would have them be content to be plundered or willingly to offer up their rights Neither doe those that have experience of them finde the Cavaliers as you stile them such ravenous beasts as you would make them I could name some places where they have most to doe where the people enjoy both their lives and goods farre more peaceably and quietly upon the termes and obedience and subjection to their Prince then as we beleeve you in London can boast of or any other places where your party hath long setled Witnesse Oxford Worcester and the rest We heare not in those places of any such violence offered to men in their estates and liberties as you have so frequent amongst you in other places But if the danger were as great as you would make it In the second place it is but a poore miserable comfort that you offer unto the poore people when you would have them give up their estates unto your party that they may be free from the Cavaliers Ne moriare mori is a strange kinde of medicine you would not like such a recipe from your Physitian I beleeve This is in a sort to advise a man to drowne himselfe and tell him it is a sure way to scape hanging or to cast his goods into the Sea to keepe them from a Pirat Or as if one should meet me upon the high-way and advise me to give him my purse upon faire termes least another that comes after may take it by force it is indeed to perswade the people to imbrace a certaine ruine to avoid a possible one But thirdly what justice is it in your party to take upon them to deprive the Subjects of their rights and liberties under the pretence of preventing others from doing them the like or a greater mischiefe That conscience walkes by no perfect rule that thinkes it lawfull to commit the least injustice to prevent another from doing

You may see there though he deserveth favour yet his necessity doth not exempt him from being a thiefe not from the crime no nor yet from the punishment and God doth not use to prescribe penalties where there 's no offence he shall be fined in a seven fold restitution And therefore though men be truly engaged in duty to supply such exigencies you before speake of yet this doth not destroy their property as if that ceased as you imply whensoever such occasion or necessity is present but obligeth their duty And therefore in those cases where you have not or cannot gaine their consent you must leave them to performe their owne duties or else you will transgresse yours whether you be King or Parliament or a single Subject But perhaps you will say that the Parliament hath in them a devolution of all the Subjects propriety so as to dispose of their estates to publique purposes if you meane by the Parliament the King and the Houses I grant so that they doe it by Act of Parliament And you must take in the body of the Convocation if the Clergy be Subjects or have any liberty or property for the disposing of the estates of the Clergy But if you meane by the Parliament the two Houses without the King I deny that they have the consent of the Subjects for the disposing of their estates since they were chosen by the Subjects not to manage the publique affaires of themselves but in a Parliamentary manner order and motion to joyne with His Majestie and to doe things by His consent by Act of Parliament and therefore since they have not His consent for the disposing of the estates of the Subjects as they now doe Nor doe it by Act of Parliament which cannot be without the King They can plead no consent of the Subject who gave them their power onely in that sense and to that purpose as afore-said If you are rationall you understand this if impartiall honest you will acknowledge it give over abusing the people with your Observations And here the people may see who meane best unto their properties and liberties since you put us to plead for them whilest you oppose them for the advantage of your party And yet will they never open their eyes but still runne on madding upon their owne ruine I pray you speake to them to have a little more wit and honesty let them have your example it may be it may worke much with them But what if I should grant you your Theses in your owne sense Yet it will trouble you exceedingly to prove your Hypothesis you are so farre from doing it that for ought appeares you were ashamed to mention it You leave us to collect it but prove it I pray you for your credit is not so great that we are bound to take your bare word though you gave it us never so plainly Prove it then that the money and goods that is forced by your party from the poore Subjects is for the supply of any of those necessities you speake of Is it for the supply of the necessity of the Lord to maintaine a Warre against his Substitute acknowledged so by the Scots in their late Petition to His Majestie and directly contrary to Gods command Rom. 13. Is it for the supply of the necessity of the Lord to maintaine practises of Sacriledge demolishing of Churches violating of Sepulchres to set forward a disturbance of Gods Service in his house to abandon the daily use of publike Prayers where they have beene used and whereby God hath received so much glory and the people so much comfort and to bring in prophanenesse or at the best to undertake a reformation by a way God allowes not when it hath beene offered in a peaceable and fit manner or where doe you finde that the sword is to be moderator or that reformation in Religion is to be founded in bloud Or is it for the supply of the necessity of the Law to nourish a Warre clearely against Law both in it selfe and in the purpose and drift of it in it selfe as being without and against the Kings command and against His Person and Authority who is declared by Law the supreame Governour and so the supreame Moderator of the Sword in the drift or purpose which we understand not at all if it be not to abridge the King of that preeminence and authority which His Ancestours have and He ought to enjoy by the Law of the Kingdome As the power of the Militia of consenting or with-holding His assent to the allowance or dis-allowance of Acts of Parliament of choosing Privie Counsellors c. Some say necessity hath no Law but I am sure the Law hath no necessity of the plunder of mens estates to any such purpose Is it for the supply of the necessity of liberty of the Subject that their liberty should be taken away to cure men of their diseases by killing them or to cast them into the Sea for feare they should suffer ship-wracke Is it for the necessity of the cause or the defenders what cause is it I beseech you that doth necessitate any such thing is it Religion have wee not beene Protestants all this while why doe you not confute the Articles of the Church of England it may be indeed your new Synod will doe it for you Hath not the truth flourished amongst us all this while till of late you your selfe seeme to confesse it if there be any sense in your words in your next Paragraph as wee shall see anon Who is it than that goes about an alteration might you not have thanks if you would let it flourish still as heretofore it hath done or if any thing be to be mended hath it not been offered what 's that cause then the necessity whereof doth lay such fanges upon the Estates of the Subjects or who are those defenders you speake of I am sure I know who is the Defender of the Faith under God and then remember who it is that you oppose surely you had need explaine your selfe for for ought we can yet learn by you the Subjects have good right to keepe their goods unto themselves for any necessity that you can plead it doth neither alter their Property nor engage them in duty to impart for the maintainance of this dismall Warre against His Majesty They are much more engaged to impart them to Him that stands for the defence of the true Protestant Religion together with the Law and Liberty of the Subjects This is the cause and this is the defender that may much better plead necessity of supply But you have two strings to your bow and so you had need for you see one of them will not hold And what 's your second let us see what that will doe Your money shall not helpe to kill That 's the resolution of the squint-eyed multitude well say you when you meane ill but what 's your answer why you tell them that

if they hinder the killing quelling of those who would both kill and quell you yours your Religion Kingdome They become friends of Gods enemies and ours and resolve to make peace with them with whom God hath resolved to have warre How doe you prove that why Exod. 17. ult what saith that place why these are the words which you leave us to finde out there for he sayd because the Lord hath sworne to have warre with Amalek from generation to generation Go to now where does your great strength lie or how may a man doe to bind this Sampson of yours This invincible perswasive or reply or what you will call it wherewith you doe so unmercifully seize upon the judgments of the poore blear-eyed people Wee 'le examine it a little Your drift is or should be to shew that the resolution of the people is not good that their money shall not help to kill in your designe for that must be your meaning now how do you drive them from this resolution why thus you shew them very learnedly that their money must help to kill c. how prove you that why because they may not hinder the killing quelling of them c. well it seemes then you are all for killing and quelling wee might have hoped of more favour you might have given the people leave to have thought you more mercifull but is this good Logique they may not hinder therefore their money must help is there no meane betweene helping and hindering consider it well and you 'l finde there is but that 's your weaknesse or perhaps your hast wee 'l pardon it and allow it that force it wants But how doe you prove they may not hinder the killing quelling of the Kings Party for that 's your meaning without all question why because they are those that would both kill and quell you yours your Religion your Kingdome wee need your help a little here wee understand you in part your Us there stands for your Party I conceive and your Ours for your Wives Children Friends Family and the like but we cannot tell yet what you meane by our Religion nor very well what you meane by our Kingdome your Commentary here a little I beseech you doe you meane by Your Religion the Brownists or the Anabaptists or the Familists or the Seperatists or the Libertines or the Papists for it is thought you have of all these sorts in your Party so that your party is very party-coloured or doe you meane that which wee doubt you have too little to doe with the true knowne Protestant Religion or what do you meane by Your Kingdome is this Kingdome any more yours then His Majesties or ours or what Kingdome is it that you meane I presume you will say that by Your Religion you meane the true Protestant Religion and by Your Kingdome this Kingdome of England that is so denominated a Kingdome from that good King that God hath set over it and if so then give me leave to aske you first how it appeares to you that the Kings party would kill you or yours or that they would quell you doe you but quell your rebellious spirits and I dare warrant you for either killing or quelling by His Majesty or His Party if He can help it any further then the Law armes Him against you nay you may assure your selves His Majesty hath that grace and clemency in Him that will moderate the severity of the Law too and it is not best for you to deny Him that power you have had good experience of His Majesties mercy if you would thinke on 't some have thought He hath beene cruell to Himselfe in being mercifull to you I but I hope all His mercy will returne at length into His owne bosome you had best take heed you slight it not too much lest if it be kept too long before you make use of it that good and pleasant Wine turne Vinegre You may doe well to remember that mercy loves not to stand too long at the doore clemency is not easily wearied but if it once grow throughly angry it may prove the greatest fury If you will needs put His Majesty to His choice which of the two He will have spilt He knowes there is difference of price and value betweene rebellious and loyall bloud And if there be no help for 't but that you will worke your ruine the price of the safety and preservation of His faithfull people you may thanke your selves for setting up such a Market I know not how to helpe you but in truth I shall be sorry for you But you may prevent it if you will it is but returning to your obedience and loyalty and I doubt not but shall find His Majesties sword that is now most unwillingly drawn against you for your correction ready most cheerfully to exercise it selfe in your protection and so you and yours may be safe if you please and the Subjects may keepe their money for better purposes then to imploy it to set forward the killing of men it was sure ordained for a meanes of preservation not for the instruments of ruine and destruction But your Religion your Religion That will be kill'd and quell'd if this cry were not in your mouthes I could scarce thinke you to be Rebels for is not this the usuall accoutrement of rebellion to march under the colours of Religion at least in pale or in quarter with some others as liberty perhaps or some such like because Religion will not of it selfe take with all palats but I pray you doe not beleeve that this vizour will alwayes be undiscovered this velvet maske hath beene so much used that the nap is all worne of almost and the bare face may be seene through it This pretence of Religion is growne so stale and hath beene so often made the lure of sedition that the very boyes can almost spy out the imposture and therefore your wiser way will be to get some new fashion for your strumpet unlesse you meane to have them throw stones and rotten apples at her alas this is an old trick to begin mischiefe in the name of God In nomine Domini incipit omne malum is too old and too true a saying but let them take heed that set it forward in such a stile for this is something worse then to take Gods name in vaine and then they are not like to be held guiltlesse And amongst others you had best be wary for whilst you make God and Religion the stile of this horrid businesse your whole progresse is a kind of a running blasphemy nay perhaps I could easily show you that in many of you is a running perjury in those that have taken the Oaths of Alleageance and Supremacy further answer I cannot give you so fully as perhaps I might if I did but know what stamp you are of onely this let me tell you first for the Protestant Religion as it hath been for these many yeares in this

by the invisible hand of divine providence in the government of the world since even the senselesse creatures and elements of the world are content to forget their owne private good and to forsake their proper motions to procure and maintaine the integrity of the universe so for the prevention of a vacuum or emptinesse wherein the integrity of the universe is concerned we finde that water will forget it selfe and its owne proper motion and ascend upward and aire will become retrograde and descend downeward and I could wish we that are rationall creatures had learnt this a little better than we have publike matters would not then have beene carried with the private spirits of ambition and revenge as it may be feared they have beene too much in our dayes which hath too great a share it is thought in our present distempers publike aymes procure unity But dissentions are usually the broode of private resolutions But yet give me leave to put in a little caution lest there should be some misunderstanding of the matter and to desire it may be received sano sensu cum grano salis for though all that bee most true yet give me leave to put you in minde that the necessity of others or of the publike doth not destroy the proprietie of the subject for we must distinguish here betweene the power that a man hath over his estate and the duty that lies upon him in the mannaging thereof A man doth not alwayes loose the power of a proprietary over his estate where his duty engageth him to part with it I am bound in duty to relieve every poore man that I find to stand in need of my help and to part with my estate unto him according to my ability and his necessity but yet I have still a property in my goods which I ought so to impart untill I have alienated them by gift Otherwise you will authorize every one upon pretence of necessity to become carvers unto themselves of other mens estates which would be a fine colour to make violence and plunder become authenticall and to take away the thankes of charity and almes contrary to the Apostles Doctrine Philemon the 14. who though he had need of Onesimus to minister unto him in his bonds yet he would not doe it without the consent of his Master that the benefit of Philemon therein unto him might not be as it were of necessity but willingly And in the 9. of the second to the Corinthians at the 7. verse speaking of the ministring to the necessity of the Saints hee doth not take vpon him to ravish a supply from them but leaves it to every man to doe it according as he purposeth in his heart So let him give saith he not grudgingly or of necessity for God loveth a cheerefull giver Yea and Saint Peter in the 5. of the Acts notwithstanding the necessity of the Church at that time yet he allowes Ananias and Saphira to have had a power and propriety in their lands untill they had sold them and professed the alienation of the whole price thereof unto the Church Acts 5. verse 4. whiles it remained saith Saint Peter to Ananias was it not thine owne and after it was sold was it not in thine owne power A pregnant place not only for the purpose we now speake of but also for the quashing of that pernicious doctrine that is thought to be too busie in the world as though none but they whom some men please to stile the children of God had any right or propriety in their estates but that they may rob them at their pleasure as Egyptians or defraud and cosen them how they list in their dealings so that they deal uprightly with the brethren A fine trick of the Divel to teach men to cosen and cheat in sinceritie whereas we finde here the Apostle S. Peter allowes Ananias and Sapphira though wicked and ungodly people and none of the true professours of the Gospell yet I say he allowed them a propriety in their land before it was sold and in the price of it after it was sold and such an one that the necessity of the Church could not make void had they not declared their consent to an alienation than indeed the keeping back of any part was both Sacriledge and dissimulation with the Holy Ghost Sinnes that I would wish you and your party to take heed of And if the necessitie of the Church doth not destroy proprietie so neither doth the necessity of the Common-wealth but where consent of the owners either expresse or implied doth some way goe along with it And yet in both these and other such like cases all men in duty are bound to part with their estates neither doth either of the presidents you bring out of Scripture inferre any thing more than I here set downe Though indeed if they had any thing more in them we know there was that extraordinarie in them that might very well exempt them from being presidents for us to follow in the former we finde the mediate Authoritie of our Saviour who is Lord paramount of the whole world and the chiefe and absolute proprietarie if I may so speak of all mens possessions who are but tenants at will under him And therefore that divine power in him that gave away by expresse donation the goods of the Egyptians unto the Israelites might well challenge what he pleased unto himselfe notwithstanding all private right that any other had in it subordinate unto his And for David we know it is possible there might be some sinne in his attempt designed upon Nabals goods as it is cleere enough there was in his resolution for his destruction as you may well ghesse by that thanksgiving that he returnes unto God for sending Abigail to stay him from his purpose 1 Sam. 25.32 33. or if not so we know David was a Prophet subject to extraordinary motions of the free spirit And you must take heed how you make all such examples your presidents lest with Sampson you pull downe the house upon your heads to be avenged of your enemies Opera liberi spiritûs non sunt trahenda in exempla communit vitae But we finde in both these examples still a propriety acknowledged in the owners And therefore wee reade in Saint Lukes relation of the same passage with that of Matth. 21.3 That the owners thereof said unto them what doe you loosing the Colt neither doe we finde that our Saviour gave the Disciples commission to take the Asse or the Colt by force but he tels them that upon their declaration of his necessity they would send them And he by his divine power as you may see plainly there inclined them to consent thereunto and you know volenti non fit injuria There was no destruction of propriety for ought I finde but a voluntary consent of the owners to supply the necessity of our Saviour And for that passage about Nabal 1 Sam 25.11 we doe not