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A09876 A discourse, of the true and visible markes of the Catholique Churche vvritten by M. Theod. Beza. Vezelius; De veris et visibilibus Ecclesiae Catholicae notis. English Bèze, Théodore de, 1519-1605.; T. W. (Thomas Wilcox), 1549?-1608. 1582 (1582) STC 2014; ESTC S101560 55,907 134

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of the true church heresies might be distinguished from errors and haye stubble from those things which eyther of themselues or by reason of the opinion of worship brought in are either vngodly or superstitious and yet that all the gouernours of the Chucch ought to vnderstand that as the alter was not in time past to be builded of stones garnished by the diligence of man neither yet that it was lawfull for them so much as to fasten a naile in the Tabernacle but according to the paterne which Moses had seene in the mount euen so now also all godly magistrates indeede and all true shepheards ought to endeuour that in restoring the temple of the Lord by so many means fallen down they shoulde not onely restore those thinges which haue beene ouerthrown by Antichrists but also that they should most diligentlye wipe awaye all euen the lightest spottes that haue proceeded from the same Antichrists although they be as it were waxen hard vpon the walles of the temple and that marking partly by the story of former ages and partly by the beholding of the present ruins of the Churche these former euils of Satan they should at no hand suffer themselues to be mocked by the allegation of the fragmentes of certaine of the auncient fathers or by any vayn shew of custom but rather that they should not leaue of vntill by doctrine both the Ceremonies and all the Ecclesiasticall gouernment also be apted not vnto some figuratiue Image of shew which was needful vnder the schoolemastership of the law but exactly framed according vnto the moste perfect paterne which the sonne of God him selfe by his owne mouth his Apostles after him haue moste perfectly set forth vnto vs in their writings But cōcerning this matter we wil elswhere speake more fully as I hope when we shal answere those notable meane men who reprehend vs as ouer seuere exactors of that work especially whē we shal seuerally answere vnto the writing of Cassander to the end al men may vnderstand that none more hinder the worke of the Lorde than these Samaritans VVhich be the principal points of the Catholique faith or religion Now because I sée some not yéelding vnto these things which we haue spokē in general cōcerning the fundamental or principall points of our religion again to demād what those shold be I answer that these articles are to be called grounds or principles which being laid the whole building remaineth which being ouer thrown al things builded therupon fall to the ground And al these things we profes to haue bene described with great shortnesse plainnes out of the word of God in the Créed which they cal the Apostles Which thing ought to be added to the ten commandements the Lords praier of the which that to wit the ten commaundements doth verie compendiously set out the order of Christian life and this that is the Lords praier doth very briefly also set out right inuocation and praier This I say is that fundamental true and perpetuall mark of the Catholike church which shall neuer bee blotted out vnto the worlds end but which neuerthelesse ought to be expounded out of the wrytings of the Prophets and Apostles frō whence it is taken that al men may vnderstand it and keepe it as much as in them lyeth Now the order of this exposition is 2. VVhat exposition of Catholique doctrine is required in the Church fold one more familiar which is necessary for al men an other more large and far more plentiful as we sée that the Apostles creed was afterwardes expounded by some other Creedes of the holy Synodes that heresies might bee met withall the Consciences established more and more in sound doctrine Therfore albeit that to the ende that some man might be a true member of Christ it be not necessary that he should most exactely vnderstande for what cause thinges are spoken and set downe and should know the determinations of disputations in diuinitie Yet euery one ought to know according to his capacitie what he doth beleeue and why he doth beleeue and not to rest in the deuilishe inuention of faith which they call vnfolded that is to beleeue as the Churche hath determined and to aske no further but to adde also vnto that familiar instruction the exposition of holy writings That the true yea the Catholique church hath more then once wanted an ordinary and lawful ministery and therefore that that ordinarie and lawfull ordination and succession of Pastors vvas for a time broken off of which Paul setteth before vs foure pointes 2. Tim. 3. to wit doctrine reproofe correction and comfort All which are by diligent Pastors and teachers publikely and priuately to be applied to the capacities of the beleeuers It remayneth that we declare howe much we ought to giue to personal succession and ordination We haue sayde that the onely true perpetuall and necessary marke of the catholique Church is that doctrine which diuersly and sundry maner of wayes first by worde and afterward by wrytings hath bene deliuered by the Prophetes and at the last most perfectly declared by Christe him selfe and that by his owne mouth and by his Apostles For this word as euen after Christe him selfe Peter sayth is that seede by which the Catholique Churche both at the beginning of the world appeared and by which also it shall continue euen vnto the ende of the world But seed is to no purpose except it be sowen and the Lorde who both vnder the olde and vnder the new Testament appoynted an order for the sowing of this seed by the ministry of men hath I say necessarily appointed this sowing for otherwise the spreading abroade of this Churche woulde quickly end to endure to the ende of the world Be it so truely Then thou wilt saye ordination also and succession of those persons is a true perpetuall and necessary mark of the catholike church agréeing altogether with that other to wit the mark of sowing So our aduersaries do conclude but falsly and foolishly For that I may let passe those two thinges already confuted by vs that is to say because they babble of the succession of persons omitting the succession of that Apostolicall doctrine Moreouer because that they propoūd an other succession than that which hath beene begun by the Apostles them selues either they do not see or they dissemble that they do see albeit the sowing also and the sowers are required no lesse than the seede to the tilling of this fielde of the Church that the same order hath not alwaies bene kept either of sowing the seed or of ordeyning them vnto whome this sowing is committed And this notwithstanding they ought to haue learned both by the fore tellings of the prophetes and also by the holy histories which things remaineth to be proued of vs. The Church therfore I confes was neuer without the worde of God But let these men also shew vs that there hath bene some one
matter say that the Church of Christe is a schoole in which the worde of the Lorde is not onely barely to be read as out of the letter written but also to bee taught that it maye bee rightly vnderstoode and so to be taught that exhortations corrections and consolations both openly and priuately maye bee vsed which in Paul is vnderstoode by the name of Prophecying Rom. 12.6 Moreouer this also wee adde which thing ought here chiefly to bee marked that the interpretation of those scriptures are to be set no where else then out of the scriptures themselues not onely because the word of God is able to giue credite to it selfe but also because that trueth is reuealed vnto vs no where els then in the writings of the Prophetes and Apostles For that saying of Austen is well knowen and is most true That the scripture is to be expounded by the scripture Neither shall it irke me heere to put downe that nonotable place out of the 49. Homelie of the imperfect worke vpon Mathew because it agreeth altogeather with our times He that will know saith he which is the true Church of Christ let him not know it but onely by the scriptures And by and by after Christians therefore beeing willing to receiue the certainetie of true fayth let them flie to nothing but to the scriptures otherwise if they shall haue respect to other thinges they shall stumble perish not vnderstanding which is the true Church and by this meanes they shall fall into the abhomintaion of desolation which standeth in the holy places of the Church But to whom shall belong will these men say the interpretation of scriptures Verily all be not Prophetes all be not teachers But againe Esay Esay as crieth that both Priestes and Prophetes haue erred in their vision neither would Christ haue admonished Math. 16.6 Math. 23.2 That the leauen of the Pharises should be auoyded if we shoulde without exception haue consented vnto them That sit in Moses chayre Neither should the false Prophetes be eschued if all the Prophetes did speake the truth neither would Caiphas and the whole Synode of the Priestes haue condemned Christ if the holy Ghost had beene tried without exception to those that sit in Aarons seat What then Antiquitye or noueltye maketh nothing at all to instruct men to discerne the true interpretation of scripture from the false Let these men therefore heare at length that which we haue so often times cryed out vnto deafe men to wit that we do not simply reiect neither the old nor the new counsels whether they be particular or generall vnlesse they be plainly theeuish that we do not simply refuse neither old nor new writers vnles they be manifestly either superstitious or ridiculous or by cōmon consent abrogated That we doe not simply cast from vs the writings neither of auncient nor new writers whether they be Ecclesiasticall or Laicall as these men call them for God is no accepter of persons and often times euen by the basest sorte he confoundeth the pride of the most wise vnlesse they be plainly wicked superstitious or foolishe But this onely we require which the most learned and euery the most religious of the old writers monish carefully to be don to wit that all these thinges should be diligently examined according to the rule of the written word of God For antiquitie and authoritie of those that wryte may in deed set some collour of truth vpon falshood but that it shoulde be true which disagreeth neuer so little from the writings of the Prophets and Apostles that truely it can neuer bring to passe Furthermore The Creeds of the ancient Synodes the iudgement of the fathers against heretiques are at no hand reiected by vs yea rather they are strongly defended against aduersaries although not as yeelding credite themselues experience it self more than sufficiently declareth that there haue beene long time since builded vpon the foundation layd by the Apostles not onely bay and stubble but also yron and rust to be short lies vppon trueth All which thinges muste at the length be consumed by the light and fire of Gods word Now least these men shoulde agayne complaine that what soeuer hath bene established by counsell after consell in the auncient Churche shoulde by this meanes be called into doubt we confes that we doe acknowledge the Créedes which were alwayes approoued by the common consent of the whole Church to wit the Creed of the Apostles Nice Athanasius his creed the creed of Constantinople Chalcedon togeather with the curses pronounced in the second counsel of Ephesus againste Nestorius And that we both with mouth and hart detest al heresies which either by open or secret consent of the whole Church were out of the word of God condemned in those 4. councels and also ouer throwen in the fifth and sixth councels of Constantinople And all other heresies whatsoeuer which afterwarde eyther newlye sprong vp or are newly polished not that the truth hangeth vpon any Synods or Creedes but because we acknowledge that the thinges which are prescribed and established in them The conclusion of the disputation of the true Christ who is the only true perpetual and absolute necessary note of the true Church may be rightly iudged by the writings of the prophets and Apostles so far of is it that we take away the authority of the church or dispise the consent of the godly either ancient or new writers which thing our aduersaries falsly shamlesly obiect vnto vs. Now the summe of al these things is this that Christ is the true perpetual necessary to be short the onely marke of the Church yea I say the true Christ that is suche a one as he from the beginning hath most perfectly touching the matter and maner of saluation reuealed him selfe both in the writings of the prophets and of the Apostles Mat. 12.13 For that saying standeth sure He that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad and that saying 1. Pet. 2.7 that christ is that corner stone of the foundation vppon whome the whole building riseth vp And that onely head which ministreth vnto his body that is vnto the true catholique Church al féeling and mouing To be short Iohn 10.7 Iohn 14.6 Iohn 11.25 he is the dore the way the resurrection and the lyfe Therfore whersoeuer that word is heard as it ought to be there in deed Christe raigneth and where Christe raigneth there in deed we iudge the Catholique visible Churche to be neither tied to any certaine place nor vnto the multitude for where that dead carkas is Mat. 24.28 to wit Christe crucified there be those Egles there is saluation Act. 4.12 where that onely name is in which we must be saued there be the children of light where that sonne shineth there be the true sheepe Where the voyce of that sheepeheard is heard Mat. 18.20 although two or three onely throughout all the world
shall be truely gathered together in his name And to speake in fewe wordes where that true seede is sowen there is the Lords field and there that haruest groweth which shall neuer be burned But againe because it falleth out partly thorough the weaknesse of mans wit euen in the moste excellent men partly through the wickenesse or negligence of the pastors that scarce at any time since the time of the Apostles the doctrine of Christ hath beene so preached in the Church but that some blemish hath priuely crept in which thing appeareth to bee done euen by the Epistles of the Apostles and that whilest they also were liuing Finally because the Lord hath apointed not onely that the worde shoulde be taught but also that it shoulde not be taught of euery man And for this cause hath appointed certaine lawes touching this order I must here again declare two things to wit how farre it shoulde be necessarie that that onely marke of the true Church that is to say the preaching of Gods worde shoulde be pure and how much we should giue to the ordination and succession of the Pastors themselues Therefore How farre it is necessary that the doctrine of fayth should be pure in the Church that the Church eyther particular or general may be a true church as touching that former point I put downe three thinges One is that although there be nothing set out vnto vs in the holy Scriptures which is not most profitable and verie necessary as it were vnto saluation yet there are certaine chiefe points and as it were grounds of our religion which are to be discerned from the rest The second point is that there haue beene some matters which in times past haue beene rudimentes of the Catholique Churche and may in other times also be rudiments of some particular churches yet for all that those points cease not to belong to the true Churche The third is that the religion and marke of the Churche either vniuersall or particular is not to be measured by some thing that this or that Pastor teacheth by worde or writing neither by that that some sheepe by them selues haue thought this Or by the disputations of some whether they be many or few but by that doctrine which is commonly receiued in the Churches so that it be agreable to the word of God That all the points of christian religion are not of the foundation thereof Now because these questions are called into controuersie go to let vs confirme them by sure reasons examples As touching the firste the thing it selfe sheweth that there may be variaunce touching some things yet the soundation of christian religion remaine safe And againe some things cannot be taken away but that the whole building be vtterly ouerthrown He that denieth Christ to haue come in the fleshe Iohn 4.3 is not of God but is the spirit of Antichrist Therefore the companies of the * They denied Christ to haue come in the flesh Dochitae of the * The Marcionistes of whome he speaketh here did hold that Christ was not true man Marcionits and of such like be not the Church of Christe whereby it is prooued that the point touching both the natures of Christe is an article of Christian religion belonging to the foundation Againe the Churche of Ierusalem wherin who was better learned than Peter knew not the calling of the vncircumcised and yet what true Churche was there then in the worlde if the Church of Ierusalem were not it Therefore the point concerning the calling of the vncircumcised is not of it selfe of the points of Christian religion which concerne the foundation Therfore there is some difference betweene those thinges which are set forth vnto vs in the scriptures to be beléeued The second also may be prooued by a more euident example For who doubteth That there are some rudiments of particular Churches VVhich thing also in times past fall out in the Catholique church but that if euer there were any where a true and almost onely and wholy Catholique Churche that was Christes owne houshold being conuersaunt and that according to the fleshe with those his twelue disciples Who likewise is ignoraunt that the point of the resurrection the foundation wherof is the resurrection of Christ himselfe is of so great waight that the Apostle doth rightly pronounce that that beeing abolished the whole fruit of the Gospell shoulde be abolished but that very congregation could scarce beleue that Christ was yet risen And Thomas gaue not credite to his own very fellow disciples yea the disciples would not haue beléeued euen their owne verye eyes if the Lorde had not sayd Luke 24.39 VVe may not determine of the falshood or truth of any church by the doubting of either many or few A spirit hath not flesh and bones And that third thing is confirmed by the examples of the Churches of Achaia and Galatia which doubtlesse the Apostle would not haue called the churches of Christ and therefore true churches if hee had therfore thought that the church of Corinth had denied that article of the resurrection of the flesh the churches of Galatia had reiected the benefite of their liberty purchased by Christe because some in Corinth yea perhaps some of the pastors themselues did doubt of the poynte of the resurrection and the most part of the Galathians called backe agayn the vse of circumcision and other ceremonies seeing that yet notwithstanding Gal. 5.2 the same Paul sayth If ye be circumcised Christ doth profite you nothing and seeing that he affirmeth that those which vrged circumcision not of ignorāce but of stubbornnes they were remoued alway vnto another gospel Gal. 1.6 Phil. 3.2 therefore he openly calleth thē Apostatates or fallers away and compareth them to Dogs that is to say to vncleane beastes But it is an other thing to erre through ig●●●aunce than obstinately to resist the truth as wiful fellowes are wont Heresie which is without the Church if it be of some point of the religion that toucheth the foundation is an other thing than being deceiued or an error which requireth and suffereth it selfe to be taught To be shorte the Eclipse of the Sunne is an other thing than the absence of the same and the euening is an other thing than the darkenesse of the night yea the night it selfe which the day succeedeth is an other thing than the darknesse were Gen. 1.2 when they couered the depth These things then being put downe That some errours may creepe into the Catholique church yea and that in some point of faith which concerneth the foundation it shal be easie to iudge that euery error doth not take away the name of the true church and with al that to be most false which the aduersaries say to wit that the Catholique Church cānot erre and yet that euery error doth not abolish the name of the Catholike Church For as touching this latter point if
Paule 1. Thessalonians 2. And also Iohn in the discription of the Image of the beaste haue now so many yeares paste set before our eyes to behold and the auncient fathers both Greeke and Latin interpreters Irene Chrisostome Hierome Augustine Becla and Cardinall Cusan himselfe also haue interpreted the same of the seat of Rome For which of those three markes of the catholique Church wherof we haue shewed that one of thē onely is vnmoueable and perpetuall the other we haue declared also to be some time discontinued remaineth in the popish Church For to speake first of that proper perpetuall and absolutly necessary marke that is the holy word writen seeing that that is in the popishe Church is not set forth vnto the people but torne in sundry péeces and that also in a strange tongue and further seeing that their shamelesnesse hath proceeded so far that they can not beare the same to be turned into vulgare cōmon speches neither yet indure that the Latin interpretation being barbarous and in many places false shoulde be amended by the Hebrue and Greek copies is there any man vnlesse he be by the iust iudgement of God blinded that will iudge these men to be the Catholique Church in which onely there is saluation and not rather take it to be that Babylon out of which all that will not perish ought to depart But some amongst them say We do not onely receiue the writinges of the Prophetes and Apostles but also receiue them and in deed receiue them more large than yee receiue them For for one and two places sake they ad the bookes which are Apocripha As though in deed to haue books decked with gold and precious stones to worship papers trāsformed into idols to sing in a strāge tongue parcels torn in sundry peces or to hang them about the necke or to vse them in magical inchantments be the same that it is to teach the writings of the Prophets Apostles and by these to direct the whole seruice of God and to be short by these to order the whole life of man But againe they saye we haue euery sunday sermons and the readinges also and homelies of the Doctors and to be short admonitions as they call them in parishes Yea haue truly But when what maner ones of whome and to what end are they had Note Now to comprehend all thinges in a few words seeing there be three wayes of corrupting the holy books of scripture one is when some thing is taken away from thē the second is when some thing is added to them the third when some thing is changed in them Who at the length seeth not that these men are cōdemned as guilty of so many sortes of falsehood That I may beginne with the law That vnwriten word which they haue deuised wil haue to be the chifest part of the seruice of God that authority which they take to thēselues to make lawes to bynd mens consciences by what name shal we call it Now haue they not vtterly blotted out without any shame the second commandement to the ende they might openly and manifestly renew al kind of idolatrie while they haue changed the names onely of ancient Idols Haue they not oppressed the miserable consciences of Christians both by new and directly repugnant traditions and vnder that cloake Mat. 23.14 Haue they not deuoured widowes houses onely as in times past the Pharisees did but also haue swallowed vp empires and kingdomes To be shorte haue they not ouerthrowen from the very foundations the vse and end of the law And in the Gospell the other and the chiefest part of Gods word what haue they left sound First what maner of Christ do they set forth vnto vs verely a christ now in deed indued with a body without a body do they propound him 1. Cor. 1.30 as he which was made of God vnto vs wisedome Yea for sooth so far as he helpeth our natural light Do thei propoūd him as our whole righteousnesse for sooth so farre as this thing is attributed to vs who are therto prepared partly of our selues and partly by grace that the reward of eternall life may by desert be ascribed vnto the deseruinges of oure righteousnesse But what if our owne deseruinges be not sufficient Verely the deseruings of some certaine saints whose treasure is not yet in deede drawen drie purchased by a certayne price at the hand of these brokers shal be added vnto vs. And the merites of what saints I besech you do they set forth vnto vs surely such as the Bishoppes of Rome them selues shal put into their calender and such as euery one shal chuse to him selfe for Patrones and intercessors But doe they propound Christ as our sanctification yea for sooth againe so far as he augmenteth the remnants of our naturall holinesse Doe they propound him as our onely redemption in deed they doe it in worde but performe nothing lesse in deed For they except the satisfaction of punishment which being granted they make God himselfe most vniust For what is more wicked than to require of him which is not in fault satisfacory of punishmēts And to what ende hath the Lorde borne our sinnes vppon the tree Esai 53.4.5 to what end hath our chastisment rested vpon him But now seeing we are come to those satisfactions doe they not most manifestly mocke with God and men when they teach that in the sprinkling of coniured water in tapers in spittle in oyle in the signe of the crosse in choyce of meates in the murmuring vp also of certaine prayers not vnderstood in the praiers of counterfeit saints for the most part in the worshipping of images in the ringing of bels in a certaine kinde of apparel also and that after death suche satisfactions doe consist what more O the moste abhominable wickednesse that hath at any time bene committed of any man in the very real offering of Christ him self for the quick and the dead which is therfore so much the more effectuall as they say by how muche it is the more often reiterated but in deed is an open manifest treading vnder foot of the sacrifice made once for vs when they teach I say that satisfaction for the punishment of sins may be bought at theyr hands both for vs that liue and also for them that be dead scorched in that their fier of purgatory What maner of thing therefore is this Gospell And what manner of Christe is this of the Romishe Popedome Who also perceiueth not by the conference of the word of god that these men by their doctrine of Opus operatum that is of the worke wrought haue ouerthrowen all the vse of sacraments That I may saye nothing of the destroying of the trueth of Christe his bodye of his Ascention into heauen and of the article of his descending out of heauen And that by the opinion of Transubstantiation they haue ouerthrowen the definition of a Sacrament And that they
part which the same Apostle speaketh to wit That the Church is builded vppon the foundation of the Prophetes and Apostles And that which he witnesseth of the holy scriptures 2. Timot. 3.16.17 Moreouer that shall be false to which the same Apostle saith That the Churche is the piller of truth 1. Tim. 3.15 Vnlesse all truth beeing ingrauen in that piller should be manifest Other some more shamelesse suppose there is left vnto these men whom they call the successours of the Apostles I know not what excellent thing and that they doe affirme so assuredly that they hold they can not be deceiued in that matter whose opinion I suppose néedeth not at this time amongst men of sound iudgement any confutation But in the ouerthrow of these two latter and especially of the last point I perceiue that all these men VVhat we ought to think of the vnwritten word are altogether of one opinion against vs. For they vrge I knowe not what vnwritten worde which they call Apostolicall traditions And verely I do not vnwillinglie graunt vnto them that all thinges were not seuerally put downe in wryting according to the circumstances of times place and persons which were obserued either by the Apostles or by their consent in the very forme and order of the seruice of God But who wil graunt that we must thinke the same of the decrees of the verie doctrine it selfe Finally when the aduersaries are bidden to bring forth what these pointes be then that lying spirit bewraieth himselfe because those thinges which they will haue deliuered from hand to hand could neither by word nor writinges haue bene deliuered by the Apostles but they should dissent from themselues But euen al the fathers of sound iudgement haue iudged farre other wise of the most excellent and moste sound perfection of the holy scriptures with whose testimonies being a thousand times alleadged I thought it not good now to fill these leaues There remayneth the question to be handled The interpretation of the vvritten vvord is not else vvhere to be fet then from the vvorde it selfe to wit by comparing of the places one vvith another and out of the analogie or proportion of the articles of our fayth touching the interpretation of the scripture Which truely is so tossed to and fro by these men that they cannot eschew the sinne of blasphemie There be I confesse some places of the scripture partly through the ignorance of tongs partly also throgh other faults of our owne so dark vnto vs euen vntil this day that as yet euen the most learned interpreters and such as be of best cōscience cannot thoroughly agrée what should be the proper natural meaning thereof There be some thinges also in the holy scriptures so profoundly spoken that euery one maye not lawfullye procéede so farre To be short there be some things also written in such terms that as Augustin saith it shold appeare the holy ghost would whet our diligence in the serching and meditating of them And vnlesse the necessarie points of doctrine and Christian religion were so playnely and clearly to be short so familiarly declared in the writings of the Prophetes and Apostles that they may be the holy ghost being presēt amongst them whereby God lightneth all his sayntes manifestly vnderstoode in the Church to what end shoulde the Lorde haue sent his hearers to the scriptures Yea that more is to what ende haue both the Prophets and Christe himselfe also and the Apostles spoken if they would not haue these thinges to be vnderstood which all ought to know I will speake something more boldly which yet I hope I can proue VVe cannot by naturall vnderstanding knovv vvhat the pointes of Christian religion are but by the writinges of the Prophets and Apostles That we may consent vnto the points of Christian religion as vnto true groundes and muche more that wee may applye them vnto our selues it behooueth surely that wee shoulde haue our eares elsewhere opened a fleshly bea rt giuen vs to be short that we should elsewhere be taught tban of flesh and blood because the church is the congregation of them that must be taught of God to whome the arme of the Lord is reuealed Esai 53.1 and that men may vnderstand what the Prophetes and Apostles haue briefly thought and taught concerning euery article of our religion they haue neede not onely of a wit in some measure sharpened but also of the knowledge of tongues and of careful and diligent reading For it is one manner of thing to vnderstande what this or that man sayth then so to vnderstand the things which thou doest perceiue that thou also approue of them Comprehension knowledge and full perswasiō must be distinguished in the holy scriptures of which that to wit comprehension is naturall the other is in deede spiritual but also commō to many reprobates The third is proper to the children of God and not onely that thou vnderstand what the thing is but also wherefore it is and comprehension is another thing than knowledge euen in prophane matters and agayne in matter of diuinity this knowledge is another thing than full perswasion therefore comprehension belongeth vnto all men that are endued with some iudgement and vnto knowledge there is required also an outwarde lightning of Gods spirite by reason of the blindenes of mans iudgment which gift notwithstanding is common as well to many euil as to many good men But ful perswasion doth seperate the chosen children of God from the castawayes and is the proper riches of the Saintes Therefore we require In what points we doe at this day dissent when the question is demaunded touching the interpretation of Gods word the exposition of the worde of God not onely as profitable but also as necessary yet not for the same cause as these mē thinke neither yet wil wee fet it from the place frō whome these men suppose we wil take it for they think that that worde is so darkly deliuered that as thogh it were some darke thing it should neede light fetcht elsewhere then from it selfe and when we demand of them from whence at the length this light should be fet thē they lay vnto vs the vizard or bare shewe of the Catholique Church vnder which name somtimes they lay before the ignorant these or those of the Fathers sometimes the fragments of particular or general counsels to bee short they lay before them very often long custom for an argument that cannot bee refused to which thinges if a man doe not forthwith consent he is now layde open to the slaughter of the outragious people no knowledge of his cause beeing had before as thogh he were guilty of some haynous crime committed against God or man wheras in times past he was condemned to bee burned vnder some certaine colour of law And in deede this is now their zeale But we that we may in one word declare all thinges which belong to this