Selected quad for the lemma: lord_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
lord_n	word_n	world_n	worthy_a	554	4	6.4403	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A88948	A reply to Mr. Rutherfurd, or A defence of the answer to Reverend Mr. Herles booke against the independency of churches. VVherein such objections and answers, as are returned to sundry passages in the said answer by Mr. Samuel Rutherfurd, a godly and learned brother of the Church of Scotland, in his boke entituled The due right of Presbyters, are examined and removed, and the answer justified and cleared. / By Richard Macher [sic] teacher to the church at Dorchester in New England. 1646.	Mather, Richard, 1596-1669.	1647 (1647)	Wing M1275; Thomason E386_9; ESTC R201478	144,474	133

many_o may_v not_o it_o seem_v to_o be_v inconvenient_a and_o ha●d_a to_o affirm_v either_o of_o these_o and_o yet_o the_o one_o or_o the_o other_o seem_v unavoidable_a by_o this_o that_o mr._n rutherford_n here_o teach_v for_o let_v it_o be_v grant_v that_o a_o congregation_n that_o be_v alone_o yea_o a_o general_a council_n yea_o a_o national_n council_n also_o may_v be_v judge_n in_o their_o own_o cause_n and_o that_o no_o light_n of_o nature_n be_v against_o the_o same_o and_o yet_o many_o congregation_n may_v not_o be_v so_o but_o then_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n will_v be_v against_o it_o let_v these_o thing_n i_o say_v be_v grant_v which_o be_v all_o of_o they_o grant_v and_o teach_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n and_o then_o i_o desire_v to_o know_v how_o the_o inconvenience_n mention_v can_v be_v avoid_v i_o mean_v how_o it_o can_v be_v avoid_v but_o either_o some_o man_n or_o church_n assembly_n may_v lawful_o do_v that_o which_o be_v against_o the_o very_a light_n of_o nature_n or_o else_o that_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n be_v change_v when_o many_o congregation_n do_v arise_v from_o that_o which_o it_o be_v when_o there_o be_v but_o one_o yea_o the_o difficulty_n and_o intricacy_n in_o this_o way_n be_v yet_o more_o if_o it_o be_v well_o consider_v for_o first_o of_o all_o when_o a_o congregation_n be_v alone_o it_o be_v yield_v that_o it_o be_v not_o against_o nature_n light_n for_o they_o to_o be_v judge_n in_o their_o own_o cause_n second_o when_o many_o congregation_n do_v arise_v now_o it_o be_v say_v it_o be_v against_o such_o light_n that_o they_o shall_v so_o be_v judge_n yet_o three_o when_o these_o congregation_n do_v gather_v into_o a_o national_n council_n than_o this_o light_n of_o nature_n will_v allow_v they_o to_o be_v judge_n as_o in_o the_o first_o case_n of_o a_o single_a congregation_n that_o be_v alone_o and_o the_o same_o be_v also_o say_v of_o the_o general_a council_n so_o that_o here_o be_v strange_a vary_a and_o change_v of_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n and_o of_o that_o which_o be_v against_o it_o lawful_a or_o unlawful_a thereby_o and_o when_o good_a reason_n and_o ground_n be_v give_v for_o the_o clear_n of_o these_o thing_n we_o shall_v then_o consider_v further_o thereof_o and_o see_v more_o than_o yet_o we_o do_v in_o the_o mean_a time_n take_v what_o be_v grant_v that_o no_o light_n of_o nature_n forbid_v a_o congregation_n when_o it_o be_v alone_o to_o have_v entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n within_o itself_o nor_o forbid_v the_o same_o to_o the_o general_a or_o national_n counsel_n i_o think_v it_o may_v thence_o be_v infer_v that_o the_o like_a must_v be_v allow_v to_o congregationall_a church_n that_o have_v neighbour_n and_o that_o entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o these_o be_v no_o more_o against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n then_o in_o the_o other_o for_o to_o say_v that_o one_o congregation_n may_v have_v this_o entireness_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n allowe●_n it_o and_o other_o may_v not_o but_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n forbid_v it_o yea_o to_o say_v first_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n allow_v it_o and_o then_o it_o forbid_v it_o and_o then_o it_o allow_v it_o again_o these_o be_v such_o abstruse_a and_o intricate_a thing_n yea_o so_o apparent_o incongruous_a and_o inconsistent_a that_o it_o pass_v my_o understanding_n to_o perceive_v how_o they_o can_v stand_v together_o chap._n xiii_o whether_o the_o church_n at_o thessalonica_n and_o jerusalem_n be_v each_o of_o they_o more_o than_o one_o congregation_n and_o of_o mr._n baynes_n his_o judgement_n therein_o of_o the_o assembly_n mention_v luke_n 12._o and_o whether_o our_o saviour_n do_v there_o speak_v to_o his_o disciple_n only_o or_o to_o all_o the_o people_n also_o it_o be_v a_o wonder_n to_o i_o say_v our_o author_n page_n 457._o that_o thessalonica_n be_v but_o one_o congregation_n yet_o the_o apostle_n ascribe_v to_o they_o that_o which_o be_v a_o note_n to_o worthy_a baynes_n of_o the_o unmerous_a multitude_n of_o the_o church_n of_o jerusalem_n from_o whence_o go_v the_o word_n of_o ged_a to_o all_o the_o world_n 1_o thes_n 1._o 8._o for_o from_o you_o sound_v out_o the_o word_n of_o the_o lord_n not_o only_o in_o macedonia_n and_o achaia_n but_o in_o every_o place_n your_o faith_n to_o god-ward_o be_v spread_v abroad_o answ_n all_o this_o do_v not_o hinder_v but_o thessalonica_n may_v be_v one_o congregation_n though_o perhaps_o a_o great_a one_o for_o that_o the_o word_n do_v sound_a out_o from_o they_o to_o other_o and_o their_o faith_n to_o godward_o be_v spread_v abroad_o what_o be_v there_o in_o all_o this_o to_o prove_v they_o be_v many_o congregation_n in_o one_o church_n and_o for_o mr._n baynes_n who_o our_o author_n worthy_o count_v a_o worthy_a man_n there_o be_v nothing_o in_o he_o that_o will_v serve_v mr._n rutherford_n his_o purpose_n but_o much_o that_o make_v for_o the_o contrary_n for_o it_o be_v well_o know_v in_o his_o diocesan_n trial_n he_o maintain_v at_o large_a that_o church_n by_o the_o appointment_n of_o chr●st_n be_v congregationall_a and_o deny_v that_o one_o congregation_n may_v be_v one_o church_n and_o in_o the_o particular_a instance_n of_o the_o church_n at_o jerusalem_n at_o co●i●th_n at_o ephesus_n at_o antioch_n and_o other_o he_o hold_v the_o very_a same_o that_o we_o do_v and_o the_o direct_a contrary_a to_o that_o which_o mr._n rutherford_n stand_v for_o and_o therefore_o whereas_o he_o wonder_v that_o thessalonica_n shall_v be_v one_o congregation_n consider_v what_o the_o apostle_n say_v of_o they_o and_o what_o mr._n baynes_n have_v say_v of_o jerusalem_n i_o may_v more_o just_o wonder_a that_o he_o shall_v once_o mention_v mr._n baynes_n in_o this_o cause_n for_o if_o ever_o there_o be_v man_n in_o this_o world_n that_o deny●d_v many_o congregation_n to_o be_v one_o church_n and_o allow_v only_o such_o church_n to_o be_v institute_v of_o christ_n as_o may_v meet_v ordinary_o in_o one_o congregation_n this_o mr._n baynes_n be_v one_o of_o they_o and_o therefore_o a_o wonder_n it_o be_v to_o i_o that_o mr._n rutherford_n shall_v think_v to_o have_v help_n from_o he_o in_o this_o question_n but_o let_v we_o consider_v what_o it_o be_v that_o mr_n baynes_n do_v say_v of_o the_o church_n at_o jerusalem_n why_o this_o which_o the_o apostle_n affirm_v of_o the_o thessalonian_n mr._n baynes_n do_v make_v a_o note_n of_o the_o numerous_a multitude_n of_o the_o church_n at_o jerusalem_n but_o do_v he_o make_v it_o a_o note_n of_o many_o congregation_n in_o one_o church_n at_o jerusalem_n if_o he_o do_v this_o be_v something_o to_o the_o purpose_n i_o grant_v but_o i_o hope_v mr._n rutherford_n will_v not_o so_o report_v of_o mr._n baynes_n for_o it_o be_v plain_a mr._n bayne●_n do_v not_o so_o speak_v but_o express_o say_v the_o direct_a contrary_n and_o therefore_o what_o ever_o numerous_a multitude_n may_v be_v in_o that_o church_n and_o what_o ever_o may_v be_v a_o note_n of_o such_o multitude_n except_o mr._n baynes_n have_v say_v that_o the_o multitude_n be_v such_o as_o make_v many_o congregation_n and_o yet_o all_o but_o one_o church_n which_o he_o never_o say_v but_o the_o contrary_a there_o be_v no_o help_n to_o be_v have_v from_o mr._n baynes_n in_o this_o business_n for_o who_o know_v not_o that_o there_o may_v be_v a_o numerous_a multitude_n and_o yet_o but_o one_o congregation_n sure_o in_o mr._n baynes_n his_o judgement_n it_o may_v be_v so_o and_o therefore_o though_o he_o grant_v a_o numerous_a multitude_n in_o this_o church_n at_o jerusalem_n yet_o mr._n rutherford_n purpose_n for_o many_o congregation_n in_o thessal●nica_n and_o yet_o all_o but_o one_o church_n be_v not_o gain_v nor_o at_o all_o holpen_v thereby_o which_o will_v better_a appear_v if_o mr._n baynes_n his_o argumentation_n in_o the_o place_n which_o i_o conceive_v mr._n rutherford_n aim_v at_o be_v consider_v in_o page_n 3._o of_o his_o diocesan_n trial_n he_o propound_v a_o argument_n of_o they_o who_o will_v have_v many_o congregation_n to_o be_v one_o church_n take_v from_o the_o example_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n of_o rome_n and_o alexandria_n lay_v down_o in_o these_o word_n if_o the_o multitude_n of_o christian_n do_v in_o jerusalem_n so_o increase_v within_o a_o little_a time_n that_o they_o exceed_v the_o proportion_n of_o one_o congregation_n how_o much_o more_o likely_a be_v it_o that_o christian_n in_o rome_n and_o alexandria_n do_v so_o increase_v in_o 200_o year_n that_o they_o can_v not_o keep_v in_o one_o particular_a assembly_n but_o the_o first_o be_v true_a ergo_fw-la also_o the_o latter_a now_o when_o he_o came_v to_o answer_v this_o argument_n pag._n 18_o 19_o what_o do_v he_o then_o say_v first_o of_o all_o he_o say_v the_o proposition_n be_v not_o of_o necessary_a

of_o the_o great_a necessity_n of_o discipline_n then_o of_o sacrament_n his_o word_n be_v these_o there_o be_v no_o such_o moral_a necessity_n of_o sacrament_n as_o there_o be_v of_o the_o ministry_n of_o the_o word_n and_o consequent_o of_o the_o use_n of_o the_o key_n where_o a_o scandalous_a person_n may_v infect_v the_o lord_n flock_n for_o where_o vision_n cease_v the_o people_n perish_v but_o it_o be_v never_o say_v where_o baptism_n cease_v the_o people_n perish_v pag._n 455._o answ_n how_o shall_v we_o be_v sure_a that_o by_o vision_n prov._n 26._o 18._o be_v mean_v discipline_n yea_o discipline_n not_o in_o a_o large_a sense_n as_o comprehend_v general_o all_o order_n and_o behaviour_n concern_v a_o church_n and_o outward_a duty_n therein_o but_o discipline_n strict_o take_v for_o administration_n of_o censure_n for_o of_o this_o be_v one_o question_n how_o i_o say_v shall_v we_o be_v sure_a that_o by_o vision_n be_v mean_v this_o discipline_n the_o usual_a expositor_n tremeli●●_n and_o junius_n 〈…〉_z and_o other_o do_v expound_v the_o same_o of_o the_o preach_a and_o dispense_n of_o the_o word_n make_v no_o mention_n at_o all_o of_o discipline_n as_o mean_v thereby_o and_o the_o 〈◊〉_d branch_n of_o the_o verse_n he_o ●hat_n keep_v the_o law_n be_v bless_v do_v ●hew_v that_o by_o vision_n in_o the_o former_a branch_n be_v mean_v the_o law_n or_o doctrine_n or_o word_n of_o god_n and_o if_o the_o scripture_n do_v not_o s●y_v where_o baptism_n cease_v the_o people_n perish_v yet_o neither_o do_v it_o say_v where_o administration_n of_o censure_n cease_v the_o people_n perish_v and_o therefore_o no_o necessity_n of_o censure_n above_o sacrament_n can_v be_v conclude_v hence_o uncalled_a minister_n in_o case_n of_o necessity_n without_o ordination_n or_o call_n from_o a_o presbytery_n may_v preach_v and_o take_v on_o they_o the_o holy_a ministry_n and_o exercise_n power_n of_o jurisdiction_n because_o of_o the_o necessity_n of_o the_o soul_n of_o a_o congregation_n in_o a_o remote_a island_n require_v so_o answ_n if_o they_o may_v do_v these_o thing_n without_o ordination_n as_o for_o my_o part_n i_o deny_v it_o not_o so_o that_o the_o election_n or_o consent_n of_o the_o congregation_n be_v not_o wan●ing_v for_o that_o i_o suppose_v may_v be_v a_o good_a part_n of_o a_o outward_a calling_n than_o i_o demand_v whether_o one_o minister_n alone_o may_v not_o thus_o do_v i_o mean_v whether_o one_o alone_o may_v not_o in_o the_o case_n propose_v take_v on_o he_o the_o holy_a ministry_n and_o preach_v the_o word_n as_o a_o minister_n if_o many_o may_v do_v it_o than_o i_o suppose_v there_o be_v no_o question_n but_o one_o may_v do_v it_o much_o rather_o and_o if_o so_o than_o i_o demand_v further_o whether_o such_o a_o single_a minister_n may_v not_o also_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n to_o such_o a_o congregation_n i_o suppose_v it_o can_v be_v deny_v for_o if_o he_o lawful_o take_v on_o he_o the_o ministry_n and_o preach_v as_o a_o minister_n what_o shall_v hinder_v but_o he_o may_v also_o baptise_v and_o minister_v the_o lord_n supper_n and_o if_o he_o may_v thus_o do_v than_o i_o demand_v last_o whether_o this_o single_a minister_n may_v also_o administer_v discipline_n and_o censure_n in_o that_o congregation_n if_o he_o may_v then_o either_o the_o power_n of_o those_o censure_n must_v be_v in_o himself_o alone_o or_o in_o the_o congregation_n also_o in_o himself_o alone_a it_o can_v be_v because_o censure_n must_v be_v dispense_v by_o a_o church_n and_o one_o man_n alone_o can_v be_v a_o church_n if_o it_o be_v in_o the_o congregation_n also_o then_o here_o be_v a_o power_n of_o excommunication_n or_o other_o censure_n even_o in_o the_o people_n which_o be_v against_o our_o brother_n judgement_n if_o it_o be_v say_v that_o this_o single_a minister_n as_o long_o as_o he_o wan●s_v other_o minister_n join_v with_o he_o may_v not_o administer_v censure_n or_o discipline_n than_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o power_n of_o censure_n be_v not_o always_o annex_v to_o the_o ministry_n as_o a_o inseparable_a adjunct_n thereof_o nor_o be_v censure_n to_o be_v prefer_v before_o sacrament_n as_o more_o necessary_a as_o our_o brother_n will_v have_v it_o for_o as_o much_o as_o here_o be_v a_o ministry_n and_o the_o administer_a of_o sacrament_n the_o necessity_n of_o the_o soul_n of_o the_o congregation_n require_v so_o and_o yet_o for_o all_o this_o not_o any_o power_n of_o censure_n at_o all_o our_o brother_n therefore_o may_v make_v his_o choice_n whether_o he_o will_v grant_v the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n of_o discipline_n to_o be_v in_o the_o people_n or_o whether_o he_o will_v say_v the_o necessity_n of_o the_o soul_n in_o a_o congregation_n do_v require_v sacrament_n more_o than_o discipline_n for_o though_o these_o be_v both_o against_o himself_o yet_o upon_o the_o ground_n which_o himself_o do_v here_o lay_v the_o one_o of_o the_o two_o be_v unavoidable_a but_o i_o hope_v no_o necessity_n in_o any_o of_o the_o most_o extraordinary_a case_n require_v that_o a_o midwife_n may_v baptise_v or_o that_o a_o private_a man_n remain_v a_o private_a man_n may_v celebrate_v the_o lord_n supper_n to_o the_o church_n without_o any_o call_n from_o the_o church_n answ_n concern_v the_o midwife_n i_o think_v the_o same_o that_o he_o do_v and_o concern_v the_o private_a man_n i_o also_o therein_o ●●curre_v that_o without_o call_v from_o the_o church_n he_o may_v not_o perform_v what_o here_o be_v speak_v of_o but_o here_o i_o will_v make_v this_o quare_fw-la whether_o 〈◊〉_d man_n that_o never_o be_v a_o minister_n may_v not_o as_o well_o in_o a_o extraordinary_a case_n perform_v 〈◊〉_d act_n of_o administer_a of_o baptism_n or_o the_o lord_n supper_n without_o any_o call_n from_o the_o 〈◊〉_d bytery_n or_o the_o church_n unto_o who_o the_o office_n of_o ministry_n as_o take_v on_o he_o without_o any_o such_o call_n the_o whole_a ministry_n and_o so_o preach_v and_o exercise_v the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n as_o a_o minister_n for_o as_o for_o the_o one_o of_o these_o our_o brother_n express_o grant_v a_o man_n m●y_o lawful_o take_v it_o on_o he_o without_o any_o such_o calling_n the_o necessity_n of_o the_o soul_n of_o a_o congregation_n in_o a_o island_n require_v so_o and_o if_o this_o necessity_n will_v warrant_v the_o one_o which_o be_v the_o whole_a and_o so_o the_o great_a why_o will_v it_o not_o warrant_v the_o other_o which_o be_v but_o one_o act_n and_o so_o the_o lesser_a one_o will_v think_v one_o act_n of_o dispense_n baptism_n or_o the_o supper_n be_v a_o lesser_a matter_n than_o the_o whole_a ministry_n and_o all_o the_o action_n thereof_o and_o marvel_v it_o be_v that_o the_o necessity_n of_o the_o soul_n of_o a_o congregation_n shall_v warrant_v this_o which_o be_v the_o great_a and_o yet_o the_o same_o necessity_n shall_v not_o be_v sufficient_a warrant_n for_o the_o lesser_a a_o man_n calling_n be_v otherwise_o alike_o unto_o both_o that_o be_v have_v a_o outward_a call_n to_o neither_o himself_o do_v sometime_o reason_n thus_o if_o we_o give_v to_o believer_n that_o be_v not_o in_o office_n one_o pastoral_a act_n we_o may_v with_o the_o like_a weight_n of_o reason_n give_v they_o all_o peaceable_a plea_n page_n 272._o now_o if_o this_o reason_n be_v good_a from_o one_o act_n to_o all_o why_o be_v no_o this_o as_o good_a from_o all_o to_o any_o one_o or_o to_o some_o one_o and_o why_o may_v we_o not_o in_o like_a manner_n argue_v thus_o if_o person_n uncalled_a may_v without_o ordination_n or_o call_n take_v on_o they_o the_o whole_a ministry_n why_o may_v not_o person_n uncalled_a without_o ordination_n or_o call_n take_v on_o they_o to_o baptise_v or_o minister_v the_o supper_n not_o that_o i_o think_v such_o a_o practice_n to_o be_v lawful_a but_o only_o i_o intend_v to_o make_v quaere_fw-la about_o the_o validity_n of_o our_o brother_n kind_n of_o argue_v yea_o it_o be_v elsewhere_o his_o argue_v that_o it_o person_n not_o in_o office_n of_o ministry_n may_v execute_v censure_n and_o discipline_n they_o may_v then_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n for_o say_v he_o what_o hinder_v by_o this_o reason_n but_o they_o may_v also_o without_o minister_n preach_v and_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n peaceable_a plea_n page_n 196._o yea_o say_v he_o i_o s●e_v not_o but_o with_o a_o like_a warrant_n private_a man_n may_v administer_v the_o sacrament_n vbi_fw-la supra_fw-la page_n 196._o this_o we_o see_v be_v his_o argue_v elsewhere_o and_o yet_o in_o the_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n he_o grant_v that_o person_n uncalled_a may_v in_o case_n of_o necessity_n without_o ordination_n or_o call_n take_v on_o they_o the_o ministry_n in_o general_a and_o in_o particular_a may_v exercise_v the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o yet_o for_o all_o this_o he_o say_v that_o no_o

as_o we_o see_v that_o in_o some_o case_n one_o may_v be_v a_o pastor_n without_o ordination_n whereupon_o it_o must_v needs_o follow_v either_o that_o one_o may_v be_v a_o pastor_n without_o any_o authoritative_a call_n or_o else_o that_o ordination_n be_v in_o effect_n but_o the_o same_o with_o imposition_n of_o hand_n and_o so_o there_o be_v no_o such_o difference_n between_o they_o as_o be_v pretend_v but_o so_o many_o pastor_n send_v a_o pastor_n to_o a_o congregation_n though_o that_o congregation_n never_o choose_v he_o answ_n take_v your_o own_o word_n for_o answer_n pag._n 496._o we_o never_o read_v that_o in_o the_o apostle_n church_n a_o man_n be_v obtrude_v upon_o the_o people_n against_o their_o will_n and_o therefore_o election_n by_o the_o people_n in_o the_o apostolic_a church_n as_o act._n 1._o 26._o act._n 6._o 2_o 3_o 4._o rev._n 2._o 1_o 2._o act._n 20._o v._n 28._o must_v be_v our_o rule_n any_o election_n without_o the_o people_n consent_n must_v be_v no_o election_n for_o if_o it_o please_v not_o the_o whole_a multitude_n as_o act._n 6._o 5._o it_o be_v not_o a_o choice_n and_o in_o pag._n 465._o he_o tell_v we_o that_o all_o incorporation_n have_v power_n by_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n to_o choose_v their_o own_o ruler_n and_o officer_n and_o that_o christ_n have_v provide_v the_o same_o in_o a_o eminant_a manner_n for_o his_o church_n and_o therefore_o for_o this_o passage_n that_o many_o pastor_n may_v send_v a_o pastor_n to_o be_v pastor_n to_o a_o congregation_n though_o that_o congregation_n never_o choose_v he_o we_o desire_v that_o he_o will_v take_v his_o own_o money_n for_o payment_n chap._n xxv_o whether_o a_o minister_n call_v consist_v in_o election_n or_o in_o imposition_n of_o hand_n and_o whether_o of_o those_o be_v great_a and_o whether_o be_v prior_n or_o posterior_n whether_o 1_o tim._n 4._o 14._o act._n 6._o 2_o 3_o 4._o act._n 13._o 1_o 2_o 3._o do_v prove_v that_o the_o minister_n call_v consist_v in_o imposition_n of_o hand_n by_o the_o presbytery_n and_o that_o such_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v not_o a_o consumatory_n rite_n or_o benedictory_n sign_n also_o whether_o rom._n 10._o 15._o do_v prove_v that_o a_o man_n can_v be_v a_o minister_n except_o some_o presbytery_n ordain_v he_o afore_o the_o people_n choose_v he_o and_o whether_o otherwise_o the_o people_n do_v send_v a_o minster_n to_o themselves_o and_o whether_o the_o people_n of_o god_n may_v not_o aswell_o discern_v a_o man_n fitness_n to_o be_v ordain_v as_o his_o fitness_n to_o be_v elect_v pag_n 493._o if_o the_o people_n may_v elect_v officer_n then_o in_o some_o case_n they_o may_v ordain_v they_o also_o because_o ordination_n be_v less_o than_o election_n and_o depend_v upon_o it_o as_o a_o necessary_a antecedent_n and_o it_o be_v nothing_o but_o a_o consummation_n of_o election_n or_o the_o admission_n of_o a_o person_n into_o the_o possession_n of_o that_o office_n whereto_o he_o have_v right_o before_o by_o election_n if_o then_o a_o single_a congregation_n may_v elect_v which_o be_v the_o great_a they_o may_v ordain_v which_o be_v the_o less_o and_o for_o this_o he_o allege_v the_o answer_n pag._n 46_o 47._o and_o then_o give_v answer_v thereto_o in_o these_o word_n ordination_n be_v the_o more_o and_o election_n the_o lesser_a for_o ordination_n be_v a_o act_n authoritative_a of_o the_o presbytery_n 1._o tim._n 4._o 14._o answ_n take_v ordination_n as_o we_o take_v it_o for_o imposition_n of_o hand_n on_o a_o church_n officer_n and_o then_o we_o think_v it_o be_v less_o than_o election_n as_o be_v but_o a_o rite_n or_o ceremony_n use_v at_o a_o minister_n entrance_n into_o his_o office_n but_o not_o at_o all_o of_o the_o essence_n thereof_o nor_o be_v we_o alone_o or_o the_o first_o that_o have_v so_o think_v for_o to_o omit_v other_o he_o that_o write_v the_o book_n call_v the_o unbishoping_a of_o timothy_n and_o tytus_fw-la affirm_v pag._n 114._o that_o it_o be_v no_o essential_a but_o a_o ceremonial_a part_n of_o ordination_n which_o may_v be_v sufficient_o make_v without_o it_o and_o say_v that_o angelus_n de_fw-fr clavasio_n peter_n martyr_n and_o other_o both_o papist_n and_o protestant_n affirm_v the_o same_o and_o in_o pag._n 116._o he_o say_v it_o be_v a_o act_n of_o service_n or_o ministry_n not_o of_o authority_n and_o no_o more_o than_o a_o external_a compliment_n or_o ceremony_n allege_v dr._n ames_n &_o other_o for_o the_o same_o tenant_n but_o now_o election_n be_v more_o than_o a_o ceremony_n that_o may_v be_v omit_v mr._n rutherford_n himself_o be_v judge_n for_o in_o his_o pag._n 496._o he_o tell_v we_o that_o in_o the_o apostolic_a church_n a_o minister_n be_v never_o obtrude_v upon_o the_o people_n against_o their_o will_n but_o that_o they_o still_o have_v the_o election_n of_o their_o minister_n and_o this_o he_o say_v must_v be_v our_o rule_n so_o that_o any_o election_n without_o the_o people_n consent_n must_v be_v no_o election_n for_o if_o it_o please_v not_o the_o whole_a multitude_n it_o be_v not_o a_o choice_n and_o in_o p._n 202._o he_o tell_v we_o out_o of_o chrysostome_n that_o all_o election_n of_o pastor_n be_v null_a without_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o people_n whereby_o it_o seem_v that_o election_n be_v something_o essential_a and_o so_o consequent_o more_o than_o imposition_n of_o hand_n which_o be_v but_o a_o rite_n or_o ceremony_n which_o may_v be_v absent_a and_o yet_o a_o man_n have_v all_o the_o essentials_n of_o a_o minister_n notwithstanding_o as_o for_o 1_o tim._n 4._o 14._o the_o imposition_n of_o hand_n of_o the_o presbytery_n there_o speak_v of_o i_o conceive_v can_v not_o be_v any_o act_n of_o superior_a authority_n but_o only_o a_o approbatory_a sign_n or_o rite_n which_o may_v be_v use_v by_o inferior_n towards_o your_o superior_n for_o timothy_n be_v a_o evangelist_n how_o can_v any_o ordinary_a presbytery_n have_v authority_n over_o he_o or_o give_v office_n or_o authority_n to_o he_o beside_o it_o be_v not_o say_v that_o timothy_n receive_v his_o gift_n by_o the_o lay_n on_o of_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o presbytery_n but_o by_o the_o prophecy_n and_o by_o the_o lay_n on_o of_o paul_n hand_n and_o with_o the_o lay_n on_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o presbytery_n now_o between_o those_o two_o phrase_n by_o the_o lay_n on_o of_o hand_n and_o with_o the_o same_o there_o be_v great_a difference_n the_o one_o import_v some_o cause_n or_o authority_n or_o power_n the_o other_o import_v no_o more_o but_o a_o approbatory_a rite_n or_o a_o sign_n use_v in_o a_o solemn_a commend_v of_o one_o to_o god_n by_o prayer_n altar_n damascen_n pag._n 161._o of_o which_o more_o be_v to_o be_v see_v in_o the_o plea_n for_o the_o church_n in_o new_a england_n part_n of_o the_o second_o chap._n 12._o quest_n 2_o 4._o for_o aught_o i_o see_v the_o author_n may_v argue_v thus_o the_o people_n may_v ordain_v ergo_fw-la they_o may_v preach_v and_o baptise_v for_o all_o the_o three_o be_v presbyterial_a act_n give_v to_o man_n in_o office_n answ_n we_o read_v in_o mornay_n de_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la chap._n ●_o that_o of_o old_a time_n it_o be_v a_o argument_n rise_v in_o the_o church_n he_o may_v baptise_v he_o may_v administer_v the_o lord_n supper_n ergo_fw-la he_o may_v lay_v on_o hand_n but_o such_o argue_v as_o mr_n rutherford_n use_v they_o may_v lay_v on_o hand_n ergo_fw-la they_o may_v baptise_v this_o we_o remember_v not_o that_o we_o have_v read_v in_o any_o author_n except_o in_o he_o nor_o do_v we_o think_v the_o consequence_n the_o same_o inasmuch_o as_o in_o the_o one_o the_o argument_n proceed_v from_o the_o great_a to_o the_o less_o and_o in_o the_o other_o from_o the_o less_o to_o the_o great_a and_o yet_o affirmative_o in_o both_o thus_o the_o argument_n be_v understand_v by_o the_o forename_a author_n of_o the_o unbishoping_a of_o timothy_n and_o tytus_fw-la who_o in_o pag._n 100_o speak_v of_o these_o word_n of_o mornay_n lay_v down_o the_o argument_n thus_o he_o can_v baptise_v he_o can_v consecrate_v and_o administer_v the_o lord_n supper_n which_o be_v the_o great_a and_o more_o honourable_a action_n ergo_fw-la he_o may_v lay_v on_o hand_n which_o be_v the_o less_o and_o this_o kind_n of_o argue_v for_o my_o part_n i_o think_v to_o be_v good_a but_o for_o that_o of_o mr._n rutherford_n i_o see_v no_o more_o consequence_n therein_o then_o if_o one_o shall_v say_v he_o that_o may_v do_v the_o lesser_a may_v do_v the_o great_a also_o in_o which_o i_o see_v no_o strength_n of_o consequence_n at_o all_o pag._n 493_o 494._o whereas_o some_o say_v act._n 6._o 3_o 4_o 5._o election_n of_o seven_o man_n to_o be_v deacon_n go_v before_o ordination_n or_o imposition_n of_o hand_n v_o 6._o answ_n election_n of_o the_o people_n go_v before_o ordination_n in_o the_o