God and righteousnes and truth from Ierusalem But it doth not follow that we knew not these testimonies but by HN. his ministerye before his new doctrine was broched the Church of Christ was not ignoraunt of that corner stone Christ Iesus of his holy priesthod of his holy sacrifice these thinges were truly understood and knoweÌ„ although HN. had neuer written Touching Christ his comming as a theefe we know it is ment of his second comming although you would gladly haue it to be the comming of HN. with his new blasphemyes The watchmeÌ„ vpon mount â—phraim are the teachers of Christ his Church of which number your HN. is none his cryes are from Flaunders and not from Sion You place two speciall vertues Loue and Truth as a face and â—ositenaunce to your doctrine but if wee should examine the same by the word of the Lord then your Loue is but pretenced For your Loue should be knowen by louing the Lord Iesus who loued vs first But the loue of HN. hath besotted your hartes who by his doctrine is enemy vnto our Lord Iesus who onely is to be beloued And for truth you onely vse the word barely without substauÌ„ce what trewth you vse in this your libell will appeare by reading to euery indifferent minde if your Loue and trueth be no better then is here expressed then I may well affirme that little Loue and small truth is to be found in this your libell Vitell. BEhold I ley in Sion a stone of foundation a proofe stone a costly corner stone to a fast foundation who so beleueth in him let him not hast For I will make the iudgement to a measure lyne â—nd the righteousnes a ballaunce Esa. 28. b. Luke â–ª â—0 b. Rom. 9. c â–ª Pet. â— â— A falsâ— ballance is abhomination vnto the Lord but a full weight pleaseth 〈◊〉 â—â—ll â–ª Prou. 11. â— A â—ight ballance â–ª and waight is of 〈◊〉 Lord â–ª and all powndeâ— in the sack â–ª are his workes Prou. 16. Should I sayth the Lord Iustifye the vnright ballance and the false waightes in the sacke wherethrough their rich men doe much vnright and their anhabitâ—untes deale with lyes and haue deceitful tongues in their throats Mich. 6. b. 〈◊〉 â–ª Therefore will I begin to plague you and make you desolate because of your sinnes Miche 6. Awake now all and repent and remember to be obedient vnto the law and commaundementes of the Lord to the end that ye in the day of the Lord be not found intangled or held captiue of your sinnes nor plagued with the plague of the vngodly Whosoeuer now in the 〈…〉 Lord will escape the plagues of the vngodly and bide preserued inâ—the godlynesâ— â–ª Let him beleve in Iesus Christâ—y eiâ—en asâ— the 〈◊〉 sayth and turne him about 〈…〉 of a childe and apply him to be obedient vnto the requiring of the word of Iesu Christ and of the doctrine of his lorâ— â–ª And so let euery one come and assemble him to the mount Sion to the cominaltyâ— of Saynteâ— and to the stone the fast foundatioÌ„ which is laid of God in Sion and build him thereon to a spirituall house in all loue and coÌ„cord and to an holy priesthod For to offer spirituall oblacioÌ„s which are acceptable vnto God through Iesus Christ. 1. Pet. 2. I through the grace of God which is geuen to me haue layd the foundation lyke a wise architect and an other buildeth thereon but let euery one take heed how he buildeth theron For an other foundation can no man ley then there is leyd which is Iesus Christ. 1. Con. chap. 3. b. This description of Sion my beloued haue I writteÌ„ 〈◊〉 geue thâ—â—by the louers of truth to vndâ—â—stand whether they have read any of the bokes of HN or noâ— which are named the most holy seruice of louâ— that the scriptures which the Lord hath set forth through his elected miâ—ist HN. are brought forth out of Sion according to the promises of the lord For it is written that the Lord will bring forth his loue out of Sion his word out of Ierusalem c. Also that the same HN â–ª hath taught all men to repaire to his mount Sion and builde thereon the which is in his works declared at large as is before rehersed Answere HEre is set down a large description of Sion of the corner stone foundation and many places of holy scripture heaped together but to no other end that can be perceiued but to amaze the Reader that your doctrine should thereby beare a face and countenaunce of trueth and come from Sion Ierusalem but we tel you truely that your new vpstart heresies with your new termes are not testimonies of Sion but from Bethell Dan Gilgall your masking shew is now discouered your vizards pluckt of Your painted words are opeÌ„ to the world your suttle â—leightes made manifest here are many places quoted but none applied If we shal assemble to SioÌ„ as you require then must we leue your HN. your Family For by Sion is vnderstood the doctrin of the prophets Apostles and Euangelistes from which the Lord assisting vs we will neuer depart and whatsoeuer doctrine may be proued by theseâ— we reuereÌ„tly embrace gladly receaue what doctrine soeuer is contrary here unto that we reiect cast of of which number the doctrine of HN. and his Familye are because it agreeth not with that Prophets Apostles nor Euangelistes You geue the louers of truth to vnderstand whether they haue red any câ— H N. his bookeâ— or not 〈◊〉 so that there may be â—onets of truth although they neuer red H N. nor his bookes as you grauÌ„te this vnto vs now so you will deny the same hereafter as shall appeare you would still haue vs beléeue that H N. teacheth no doctrine but builded vpon Syon as appeares by his workes his bookes are to be seene his doctrine is out of his own imaginatioÌ„ being deluded by an erroneus spirit to disquyet the Ioyfull proceedinge of Christ his gospell and to exercise his church according to this saying necessâ—â—st haereses esse c. It is necessary that heresies be c. There was neuer heresse in the world but would dispute argew and reason and deny no conference with any but this HN. thinketh it sufficient that he tell his Familye that he hath learned his doctrine by gods owne mouth and no man may speake against him nor his doctrine but by and by he is condemned for a blasphemer of the holy ghost So sharpe and quick are these Elders of the familye in iudgement it is tyme for you to helpe your decaying state with some face shew of wordes For your Familye doubt not doe espy your poysoned doctrine which lay hid from them vnder your darke speach and vnaccostomed phrases his workes declare his doctrine to come from his owneacute braine by illusion of Sathan and none geueth testimony of him but himselfe and you his deceiued
agreing with our frayle condition and nature But such is our vanitye not guided by the spirite of God to aduaunce our state and calling aboue our degree and condition by the setting on of our enemy Sathan Vitell. NOw I doe maruell why you be so enuious agaynst that name HN. wil you not permit the Lord to geue names to his ministers according to the worke that he will accomplish by them or doe you think that the names are geueÌ„ to the outward creature then are you much deceiued No my beloued the seruauntes of the Lord are children of Loue ascribe no names of holynes as dew to the outward person For they know that they are but fraile eaâ—then vessels beare their names according to their vertues whiche God hath geuen them and submit them humbly and obediently as serviceable instrumâ—ts to serue the lord their neiâ—hbour therfore I would councell you to looke iâ—to your selues marke what 〈◊〉 good thinking spirites rule 〈◊〉 wherethrough ye blaspeme diâ—piâ—e dishonor the tâ—ple or tabernaâ—lâ— of the Lord. Answere AGaynst the two letters of HN. I am not enuyous only against such doctrine as he doth teach contrary to the scripture whereby you as an Ipocrite haue seduced the people and led theÌ„ into error and corrupt wayes to hinder the Lord of his purpose it resteth not in mortal man If HN. be a name signifiyng some office why hath neither he nor you manifested y same but plead ignorance that it signifieth some hâ—e misterye which you nor we know not now as HN. is a name geueÌ„ by the Lord as you affirme according to the worke that he will establish by him so doth his fellow Elder â—idelitas looke for lyke credit whose wordes I will repeate as they be written in his booke called A distâ—nciâ—e declaration of the requiring of the Lord c. In the First chap. 1â— seâ—ion â—e hath these wordes following but fire or bend alwayes all your sight oâ— me Fidelitas and consider how that the Lord hath choseÌ„ me euen froÌ„ my very byrth out of my Mothers wombe to the obedience of the requiring of his word For that I with you and yee also with me according to the requiring of the testimonyes of his gracious word should become vnited therein and so to growe of one vniforme being with ech other in the same c. You shew vs in the 29. sexion that through HN. his priestes office the Lord will receaue all men in mercy but for Fidelitas office as yet we know not what it is and in deede there were neuer any that would challenge such names as these elders doe affirme that they signifie their office and calling certayne players vpon stages would declare thâ—â—r names representinâ— câ—rtâ—ine â—eâ—â—ueâ— to seâ— out their matters somâ— wâ—â—e callâ—d truâ—th some hope some â—aithfulnesse but in sadnes to set â—owne such names to siâ—niâ—â—e 〈◊〉 which thâ— Lord as yâ—u affirme will accomplish by them is meere impâ—etie But where the Lord geueth names it appeareth by their calling and such aâ—e their workes and sayinges as geâ—eth testimony sâ—fficient to their vocation â—ut â—our HN. câ—n shew no sufficient markes wherby any but seduced persoâ—s should geue credite to his wordes onely a paâ—nted shew and barren heaping vp of woâ—des darkly appliâ—d without conclusion or sence sauing you and such lâ—ke that finde great misterâ—es in his sentences carying such credit among you as is not seeming Christians The Lord gaue names to sundry vnder the law as Isaack Sampson Iohn â—aptist c. But doth it follow that HN. is a name geuen by the lord Proue vnto vs that the Lord hath established his name your friuolous cauill that HN. signifieth 〈◊〉 will not serue such bables are scarce sufficiâ—Ì„t to meâ—k children therefore you must deuise some better 〈◊〉 Some of your Familye haue written that HN. signifieâ—h some greater matter then either you â–ª or wee can tell of such incertentyes hoâ— you auâ—uch of your HN. For vncertayne doctrine must haue certayne â—idden misteryes to amase the heares mindes or els no doubt â–ª the drift of doâ—â— me would easely be espied Therefore you must deâ—ise some hidden sâ—â—retes whereby to cary a shew of profâ—â—â—d mâ—tter That names are geuen by men in these dayes and not by God there is no doubt or question but you would sayne haue HN. to be a name geuen of God to signifie a calling you geue vs no reasâ—n so to thinke but woulde haue vs beleue it is so because you say so then were we vayn heads and vncâ—nstant mindes For we depende so stricktly vpon the scrâ—ptures of God that no spirite no 〈◊〉 nor no Angel teaching other 〈◊〉 can be a coâ—ted or beleued amongst vs so ceâ—tayn is our faith and so inuincible is that truth which by the Scriptures we held In that you tâ—e Children of y loue ascribe no names of holynes vnto the outward person it is a mistery we aâ—e ignorant of we simply geue names to our children in baptisme without signification of holynes touching the Inâ—ant the names may signifie holynes but that the person carrying the same name shall be indewed therwith that are we ignorant of If you haue such hidden misteries among you it were good the world should not be ignorant of it We commit the successe and euent of such hidden secrets to the lord Of enuyous good thinking spirites that rule in vs you councel vs to looke to without your councell God willing we meane to follow the councel of the Lord our God which willeth vs not to beleue euery spirite c. And yet I neuer heard before of enuyous good thinking spirits But such a grace you haue not only to forge new doctrine but new names of Spirits also In speaking against HN. you wold insinuate that we blaspheme despise and dishonoâ— the temple or tabernacle of the lord Doth it follow necessarily that they that speake against HN. blaspheme despise c. And is he the temple or tabernacle of the Lord vndoubtedly we are all deceaued then For I assure you we take him to be an erroneous spirit a fantastical hed possessed with pride of minde Sathan blowing the belowes The Lord working therby the exercise of his church If you haue other opinioÌ„ of HN. warrant or grouÌ„d so to do haue you none But beâ—ause you will not beâ—eeue the truth therefore are strong illusions sent whereby you might be deceaued Looke into the holy Scriptures with a more single minde and it shall be easily perceiued Vitell. MOrâ—ouer you say that the illuminat â—lders sin not I would you knew what you say forth you should vnderstand that they do lord and preuaile with God and Câ—â—ist ouer the sinne and haue no pleasure to commit sinne therfore they teach men the godly obedience whereby they might be frends with God but they that haue pleasure in sinne are the seruants of â—inne and are enemies to the Lord. Answere I Haue sayd that the
trueth they seeke but singularitye For although in other matters there be difference opinions yet in maâ—s election saluation redemption and regeneâ—ation being the pillers and foundations of our fayth whosoeuer erreth herein cannot be saued I am also Christian reader to desire thee to amend and correct with thy pen certaine faultes escaped in this treaâ—ise by the Printer and to amend the sence of some sentences being not rightly poynted which I refer vnto thy learned Iudgement The Lord our God blesse thee and grauÌ„t vs his holy spirite that we may persist and abide in the vnitye of his holy Church and patiently abide the Lord his leasure in rooting out errors and heresies which disquiet thy little flocke They are exercises of our fayth but yet blockes whereat the wicked stumble and hinderaunces of many a mans conuersion which the Lord our God foretold vs of that in the latter dayes such should come and such daungerous dayes should be that if it were possible the elect should be deceiued The complaint of a Regenerate man vnto God the Father shewing the sorrowfulnes of his haâ—t O Lord God heauenly Father thoâ— that art not only our God but the God of all the world we thy creatures the worke â—f thy hands make our humble prayers and supplications bâ—fore thy excellent maiesty â—eseeching thee O Lord not to consider vs as we aâ—e of our selues eaâ—th ashes and whatsoeuer is 〈◊〉 but as we are in Christ Iesus our Lord thy sanctified people whom thou hast chosen before all worlds to witnes thy â—ame in earth And to whom tâ—ou hast made manifest thy Sonne ouâ— Sauiour with an vncouered face to our great comfort â—et alas we vnworthy wretches finde in our selues such heapes of sinnes and such lumpes and loades of impieties that were we not stayed in thy promyses wee should perish with mistrust in thy mercies For we know that thou art a iust God and doest visite the offences of thy childreÌ„ with rods and their sinnes with whips Yet thy mercy doth neuer faile vs Yea although we sinne yet are we thine We haue O Lord tasted greatly of thy mercies Many yeaâ—es we haue been fed with heauenly meate Long time we haue enioyed the benefite of thy gospel a blessiâ—â— of blessinges our own conscience doth witnes yea our sinnes are so ripe and so outragious that they are ascended vp vnto the heauens and 〈◊〉 for thy iustice which we haue sore prouoked with multyplying sinne vpon since We haue not obayed thy voice We haue not harkened vnto thy seruants whom thou hast sâ—â—t We haue propbaned thy holy Sabaoth with vaine spectacles vngodly tragedies We professe thy name in our word but deny it in deedes Our vanity is too too manifest in our apparrail Our excesse appeareth in our banquets Our small reuerence towardes thy holy name in our vayne other Our merciles charitie towards thy meÌ„bers is too too manyfest Yea our whole life is nothing els but abuse of thy creatures with ingratitude for thy benefites So that we thy children are to expect and looke for nought els but thy heauy hand yea thy iudgements in displeasure We and our for fathers haue sinned Our Princes and Rulers our Priestes our Prophets and teachers Yea from the greatest to the least all haue followed the bypath of their own imagination deuice â–ª and haue not harkned vnto thy word to make it the lanthorne to our feete and the light to our steps Our own wayes and deuises haue preuayled We therfore O Lord our God prostrate our selues before thy maiesty beseeching thee for thy deere Sonne our Sauyour Christ Iesus sake turne not away thy face from vs in displeasure Bring not vpon vs wretches the due punishments our sinnes haue deserued Looke not vpon vs as we are of our selues but as we beloÌ„g to Christ Iesus for whose sake thou hast promised to deny vs nothing we aske in his name Looke vpon thy wonted mercies of old although the cry of our sinnes be great before thee yet the righteousnes of our Lord and Sauyour Christ Iesus is greater whom we interpose and put betweene thy iustice and our deserts Yea by him we appeare with boldnes before thee this day as childreÌ„ not as strangers saying O Our Father sanctified be thy holy name Let thy kingdome be inlarged in vs thy children Let thy will be performed in vs most obedieÌ„tly eueÌ„ as thy saints holy ones do fulfill the same before thee Geue vnto vs O Lord all earthly blessings this day that we may vse them to our comfort and not abuse them in pleasure Forgeue vs O Lord we beseech thee our dayly sinnes that we commit against thy diuine Maiesty And geue vs thy holy spirite that we may forgeue all such as by any degree 〈◊〉 trespas against vs Leade vs not not O Lord into tryall nor temptation aboue our strength for then our weakenes will appeare Delyuer vs O Lord from all those euils our sinnes dayly prouoke And froÌ„ all those plagues and punishments which thou hast threatned to bring vpon vs at this time Delyuer vs from the mouthes of cruell Lions which dayly gaâ—e to deuour vs From blondy Papistes which lye in wayte for vs and dâ—ly conspire to bereaue vs of the most comfortable benefit of thy word and seeke to make our liues a pray vnto their greedy desires Bring O Lord their deuises to nought Let thâ— liâ—le flock enioy the sweete comfort of thy gospell that we may praise thy holy name in our own land Roote out all secâ—es and heresies which are among vs which Sathan hath stirred vp to disquyet thy church And Lord if it be thy will either to conuert them or put them to silence for euermore Preserue O Lord God our gracious Queene Elizabeth in thine own bosome Deliuer her O Lord from all conspiracies tresoâ—s and trecheries which Sathan in his members shall deuise against her Make void their couâ—cels that consult against her and let vs O Lord enioy thy blessing in her long prosperous and happy dayes Geue O lord vnto her Councellors wisdome fortitude and courage to preuent all dangers and vnto our bishops and teachers geue truth in doâ—trine boldnes to publish the same without 〈◊〉 And to vs thy people geue O lord humble hartes and obedyent minds that we thy children may now at the last be warned to reuerence and regard thy holy gospel and feare thy puâ—â—shmeÌ„tâ— forsaking our vain delites in earthly things so that our whol life may be a dayly watch and looking for thy glorious coming So that in our hartes we may dayly saâ— Come Lord Iesus come quikly that we maybe losed fâ—oÌ„ thâ— woful vale wherein we doe nothing but prouoke thee with our sinnes â–ª Graunt O Lord we beseech thee that thy church may long enioy the liberty of thy word and geue constancy to thy members our bretheren which suffer any crosse or tribulatioÌ„â—â—her in body or minde as witnesses of thy trueth Geue
them patience we beseech thee that they may abide whatsoeuer thy Maiestie hath determined so that euen in tormentes they may witnes thy holy name Graunt vs O Lord our God these our petitions or so many as are expedient for vs thy children for thy deere Sonne our Sauiour Iesus Christ his sake To whom with thee â–ª the holy Ghost be al honor praise glory dominion power for euer and euer Amen A short reply after the order of a proface By the meanes of certayne slaunderous wordes as followeth from C. V. THERE IS NOTHING more necessarye for the reedisying of God his Gospell in a common wealth then foâ— euery such vnto whome the Pastorall office is committed With all expedition to beate downe by the aucthoritye of the same word all vpstart heresies And opinions by the which the true Church and congregation Is disquiâ—tâ—d â–ª of lâ—te theâ—efore as one poore member of the same in a preface To the tituled worke agaynst those which are called the Familye of Loue liking tâ—eÌ„ to a Cormorant Fowle was for that I espied By the manner of writinges and imaginatiue prâ—ctise Somewhat slyly couered ouer as the Snake vnder the greene hearbe from their HN. an Onacratoluâ— câ—ept in this our natiue Countrye of EnglaÌ„d through simplicitye But rather I feare me hipocâ—isie to the bosomeâ— of many supposed wise men the more by the meanes of a second Mergus C. V. Whome heretofore by vttered vow at Paules Crosse â—ecanted as I thinke the same error which he now stiffely defendeth Neuerthelesse sithens which tyme Hath in coâ—ners drawen companyes togethers of the which sâ—me haue refâ—ained â–ª and others yet tâ—o many abidiâ—â— I thâ—refore somewhat to further the goodwil of the Author agaynst that Familye their error and not their pâ—â—sons and for the hopes sake which is layd vp in store through Iesus Christ our â—ord and Sauiâ—ur did by preface â–ª forewarne the vewers of the sayd bâ—oke to be heedefull of such so pestileÌ„t a sect who vnder the title of sundry senteÌ„ces of holy scriptuâ—â— Hâ—ue as in a maâ—â— knit fast through the webbe of the Spider Many â—ely â—lyes whose vnstable mindes more wauering theÌ„ such slender wings haue ben are and will be except the grace of God make them more heedefull so fast tangled that it will be scarce possible to pluck them out I doe once agayne euen as one greatly compelled make aunswere agaynst that which herein followeth by those wâ—ome I hoped their conuersion and not detection whose wordes haue sayd me to be Diueled with the Deuill I doe consider these wordes to bâ— sayd to me by the lyke intention as to my L. and maister Christ that he had Belâ—ebub the chiefe Deuill yet wâ—â—â—e â—â—ue And the reprouers false Their wordes This blasphamous Batman with his slaundering and lyâ—ng blasphemeth the holy Ghost for he nameth the Familye of Loue a Corniorant Fowle And an sereticall sect whereas notwithstanding there is 〈◊〉 Catholick Church nor comminasâ—ye of Saintes but the Familye of Loue And herein he condemneth the holy Scriptures the Lawe and the Prophets as also Christ and his Apostles Moreouer he sayth that the Lord his elected Minister HN. is of the seede of certayne sectaries â— Whereas his doctrine is altogether agaynst all Sectaries If it be blasphemy to reproue an error then haue I not done well if it be lying to detect a falshode I will reaunswere if slaundering them that slaunder other in one is the fault to this first God his worde doth teach me to defend his Church the Queenes Maiesties lawes her common wealth whereto my conscience aunswereth by the trueth that if you take not better heede you will fall from heresie to treason and so into contempt of your religion Of your loyaltye And true seruice of God of the which take heede for the holy Ghost is iudge betwixt vs both I doe name the Familye of Loue the selfe same as before till I doe perceaue you to be otherwise minded except you vse this policye That when your Religion will hold no longer you will then say we vnderstode not your mindes and so therereby exâ—use your follyes You say there is no Catholick Church nor comminaltye of Saintes but the Familye of Loue surely your loue is so secret if we vnderstand it not you much lesse perceaue it but in secluding all that be not of your Family What shall be sayd of all the godly in the world before your HN. whome now to culler doe call the holy name What say you of our gratious Queene Her noble Counsaile the leaâ—ned Byshopâ— And disâ—â—et preachers of the Lordes Gospell What thinke you of the excellent ouâ—ces both Oxford â–ª Cambridge from the which they are not now to learne of their true loue in god Of your HN. Neither of C. V. Who cunningly hath ioyned together that which we know Christ to be the ouâ—â—commer and C. Vitell the Ioyner to be bâ—t a deceiuer Your Argument must haue an Interâ—ection when you say He condemneth the holy Scriptures the lawe and the Prophetes all which three â—â—â—uerence loue and obâ—y â–ª by the Lord God his assistance you ad as also Christ and his Apostles is it enough to condemne any before the cause why â–ª your Vocatiue must haue a Datiue to your selfe be all these except you 〈◊〉 the greater heeâ—e I 〈◊〉 also vettrly deny your HN. Hâ—rry Niâ—holas to be the Lordes elected Minister â–ª otherwiâ—e then suâ—ferâ—d to peruert the congregation And also I say to you Chrisâ—opher Vitell 〈◊〉 you 〈…〉 and while there is yet tym◠〈…〉 to God whome in this â—tâ—r you hâ—ue greatly offended your Prince much aâ—used â–ª anâ— many your fellow disorderly 〈…〉 by your vngodly collections thorow which 〈…〉 you haue continued too long as to your ease you may thinke So to their payne it may be assured If now your doctrine be agaynst all Sectaryes Then be as good as your word and â—ly these errors â–ª els as weedes are cut of with sickle and sithe for hiâ—ting the good herbes so must euill membber from a common wealth Fare well Fidem fero mihi fama fuco An Aunswere to a wicked and infamous Libel made by one of the chiefe english Elders of the pretended Familie of Loue. Vitell. Testimonies of Sion of the â—â—st stone of fouâ—datioâ— layd therein of â—he iudgement and righteousnes and of the holy priesthood and spirituall oblation through Iesus Christâ— brought fourth through the Lordes â—lâ—câ—â—d minister HN. loue Trueth BLessed is he which watcheth for the day of the Lorde which shal come as a theefe in the night Math. 24.1 Thessa â–ª 5. Peter 3. For the tyme shall come that the watchmen vpon mount Ephraim shal crye come let vs goe vp vnto Sion to the Lord our god Iere. 31. Mich. 4. Zach. 8. Answere TO what purpose these places of holy scripture are collected I am ignoraunt of because they want dew explication we know that from Sion came the law of
Elders Vitell. NOw for asmuch as there are certayne which make vp themselues slaunderously and reprochfully as ignorauÌ„t of the promises of the Lord where through they blaspheme the Lord and his most holy service of Loue saying it is the most detestable heresie and so desame and slaunder the Lorde his elected Minister H N. and all those that haue therein their exerciseâ— which seeke onely there through and through the lawe of the Lord how they mought liue in that which is godly and manly in all lawfull â–ª and dutyfull obedience both to God and gouernours spirituall and temporall and lyue peaceably and deale vprightly with all men c. Answere WHereas some in the feare of God and loue to his trueth and in discharge of their duetye they owe vnto his Church haue manifested and made knowen to the world your doctrine and behauiour we doe not herein slaunder you wee onely seeke thereby your amendment and conuersion and geue also warning vnto the simple that they may take heede vnto your painted cloakes by which you shadow vntrue doctrine to the peryshing of their soules 〈◊〉 are not ignoraunt of the promises of Christ our Lord but to our great comfort we depend thereoÌ„ neither doe we blasphemâ— the most holy seruice of Loue yf you vnderstand by Loue God as often you do confound that word Louâ—â— but when wee speake agaynst the seruice of Loue we meane thereby sucâ— seruice and vsages as are vsed â—mong you in your priuate coâ—ueâ—tiâ—les As for HN. whome you tear me the Lord his elected minister wee dare not so acknowledge him neither thinke him worthy of y name but a sower of heresies almost worn out of vse but now by him reuiued blased vnder new titles and vnaccustoâ—ieâ— phrases to amaze the simple And for that he calleth himselfe a Prophet and so is among you accompted wee tell you that the more you extoll him and his calling the more you extenuate the office of Christ Iesus If you seeke onely to serue the Lord can not this be done without H N. or his seruice of Loue Wee thinke that Christ hath left vs sufficient testimony in his word how he will be serued in his church if HN had neuer written And for your dewtifull obedience to Magestrates spirituall and temporall that doth little appeare for so much as you 〈◊〉 an Author nor allowâ—d of by any Magistrate and vse your priuate 〈◊〉 forbidden by the Magistrate and both wright speake agaynst 〈◊〉 of Christ 〈…〉 by the publick Magistrate and for your vpright dealing they beâ—â—â— now it that are coÌ„uersant amongst you Yf your priuate dealinges be no 〈◊〉 then your publicke declarations I suppose your vprightnes is not greatly to be boasted of Vitell. ANd yet â–ª are complayned of to the Maiestrates with many false brutes and slaunderously reported of where through the Maiestrates are moued to trouble and persecute theÌ„ yet their aduersaries haue not anything worthy of punishment agaynst them but I see that the tyme is now euen as it was when the Lord Iesus Christ was personally vpoÌ„ the earth for the Pharesies sayd that Iesus was a breaker of the Sabboth they also found fault with his Disciples because they goyng through a corne fielde pluckâ— of the eares rubbed out the corns eat for they were hungry eueÌ„ so the Family of loue going through a corne field haue pluckâ— of eares of corne and rubbed and eaten thereof to satisfie their huÌ„gry soules the which the enuiers of the loues vnitie haue of pied and are offended at them and haue accused them therefore but other matter they haue not agaynst them and yet they say they are breakers of the law c. Aunswere THe complaynt that good men haue made agaynst you is not to slaunder you but of purpose to haue you and your Family depend vpon the Lord his truth not vpon HN. or any although they boast neuer so much of the spirite of God of trouble and persecution you complayne and yet for your part you are safe inough as for some of your Family whiche haue bene imprisoned and vpon submission released therin no cruelty was shewed if nothing could haue bene obiected agaynst them as you report then was their imprisonment seueritye is it not lawfull to chastice heresies and to punish gainsayers of publick doctrine in deede so you would haue it that euery man might be left to the libertye of hys owne will and so shoulde the world swarine with infinite dissentioÌ„s and heresies which y deuil doth more busily stir vp now then heretofore It is the gospell and the doctrine thereof that he breatheth out threates against and stirreth vp his to spurne against the same very eagerlye onely because it spoyleth him of his wished pray through the firme faith and confidence 〈◊〉 haue in our most tryumphant conquerour Christ Iesus Your comparysons are vneâ—â—all because Christ was accused as a breaker of the sabaâ—th and his Disciples found fault withall that in hunger did rub the eares of corne euen so you as you would gladly haue men beléeue are as innocent of crime as Christ and his Apostles in that you are charged but we tel you plainly we finde faulte with you for satisfying your hungry soules it is for the corrupt meate you haue chosen which in deed is very poyson and wil bring your bodies soules to vtter destruction euerlastingly except ye repent and because we warne you and wil you to be circumspect and take heede of such poysoned meate in your hunger you are waspish aboue measure If that you be hungrye in déede Christ hath meate prepared in his holy word sufficient to quench the hunger or thirst of any true Christian. But you haue chosen meate prepared by HN. which you like greatly and agréeth best with your stomaches but we in the feare of the Lord warn you that you take héede therof for it will bring a surphet vncurable vnto your soules Vitell. FOr which cause sake I am moued to make a short rehearsall by what meanes the Lord of his good 〈◊〉 me out of â—hinâ— ignorance and also made manifest vnto me the life saluation More I haue râ—cyted the names â–ª of two wâ—iterâ— which haue wâ—â—â—ten agaâ—ist the most holy seruice of loue and agaynst the Lords minister HN. also a part of their slaunderous reportes to the end that the louers of trueth might pray vnto the Lord that he of his gracious goodnesse will geue those slaunderers vnderstanding that they might percâ—iue and vnderstand their horrible blasphemy against the Lord and so humble themselues repent for I thinke it is all out of ignoraunte blindnes whatsoeuer they haue done whereby they might finde grace at the hands of the Lord c. Aunswere IT were more requisite that you would declare vnto vs what was the cause that moued you first to embrace that wicked sect of Arrius and many yeares became a leader of many pore soules into that
gulfe of mischiefe and then to shew some reason that moued you to forsake that opinion and imbrace this absurde impietye of HN. which so gréedely you haue chosen to satisfie your hunger and you call it life and saluation The two writers wil the Lord assisting vs verefie continuallâ—e that in no poâ—nte we haue slaundered you nor your minister HN. And we refer the iudgement therof vnto the louers of truth which shal indifferently vew the reasons allegationâ— on both sides without partiality As for the horrible blasphemye against the Lord wherwith you bitterly charge vs we deny y we haue committed any such haynous offence against â—od whose reuerent name we adore with all humility and vntil you can prooue vs such blasphemers you wil remayne in the sight of all God his children an impudent lyar and a slaunderer You are one of those illuminate â—lders which keepe all the coÌ„maundementes of God and commit no sinne but now it doth appeare of what spirit you are with what spirite you are led Can not your cause be maintayned without such contumelious and impudent speach he that is a blasphemer of God is without hope of mercy Many Diuines haue studiously sought what the sin of blasphemy is but you haue with greate ease found out the same to be who so speaketh or wryteth againste HN. or his famely must he needes be a blasphemer Temper your humors with more modesty for shame els men wil thinke that your HN. hath published that of you which cannot be found in you which is that when you are reuiled taunted or bitterly vsed you as lambes in patience bear the same you do euil verefie your authors words It is all out of ignorant blindenes what we haue done as you say are al blind and ignorant that speak against your pretended family then are there many blinde and ignorant in y world but I dout your great sight which you prophetically make a shew of in thiâ— libell will declare very notablye your blindnes though you brag very often of your sight I would with all youre sight you saw rightly into your selues theÌ„ should you perceiue that your new couenaÌ„t of perfectioÌ„ which you dream of is a moere illusion of Sathan and no where to be found in the holy scriptures Vitell. IN asmuch as it hath pleased the Lord of his gratious goodnes to make manifest vnto me as most vnworthy through his most holy seruice of loue in misunderstanding ignorance error so haue I humbled my selfe before the Lord and his Minister HN. as the greatest sinner among sinners desiring the Lord that he of his goodnes woulde extend his mercy ouer me and forgeue me al my offences wherein I had liued contrary to his commaundementes lawes and ordinaunces so that the Lord at his time when he sawe it good through his grace released me out of my calamitye and also made manifest vnto me through his most holy seruice of Loue and his elected minister HN. his promises which he made with Abraham where through he will blesse all the generatioÌ„s of the earth and also how when and wherein they are fulfilled c. Aunswere Hâ—re is expressed the maner of this mans conuersion and how he came to be of the Familye of Loue wherein are many shewes of piety and humility requisite in a Christian but where he saâ—th he humbled himselfe beâ—ore the Lord and his cleâ—ed mâ—nister HN. therein he bewrayeth himselfe we are taught in all our troubles to call vpon the lord Innoca me in die tribulâ—tionis 〈◊〉 â–ª to humble our selues before the Loâ—d it is good and conuenient but before HN. what warrant haue you so to do why ioine you HN. and God together in â—our humiliation I will not crye out no you doe that this is blasphemâ—e yet I tell you it is not Christianlyke spoken I know not how you will quâ—liâ—ie this your speach you say that the Loâ—de when he saw it good released you of all offenceâ— wherein you had liued contrary to his commaundements but now being released doe you sinne any moâ—e â—f you would speake plainlye as you haue vttered your repentaunce so now resteth that you should also speake of your perfection and of the state wherein you now stand For that is the matter that we would haue you to be playne in but that is concealed and kept secret least your lybertye should be espyed â—ou say further that through the seruice of Loue and his elect minister HN. all the promises made vnto â—braham how when and where they are fulfilled and made manyfest vnto you And I pray you could you not imbrace the promise made vnto Abraham without HN. are not the scriptures sufficient to manifest the same without him surely this is great pitye that you extoll your Aucthor so aboue measure the Prophets haue written thereof Christ and his Apostles haue opened to vs how when and where those promises are fulfilled sufficeÌ„tly â—f HN. had neuer written Vitell. MOreouer there was made manifest vnto me through the same seruice of Loue and the Lords minister HN. the comming agayne of Christ with his sayntes and his righteous iudgement wherein he will iudge the world with mercye and faythfulnes and erect agayne his righteousnes and euen so acoÌ„plish all whatsoeuer he hath spoken through the mouthes of his seruauntes the Prophets from the beginning of the world according to his promises Aunswere NOw you affirme that there is made manifest to you the comming agayne of Christ with his sayntes c. but because you ad not in the resurrection wée are doubtfull what you meane by the comming agayne of Christ least you vnderstand it a comming in this lyfe Because you adde that there shall be accomplished whatsoeuer hath bene spoken by the Prophets from the beginning â—f you had ben a true Christian you needed not HN. to manifest these thinges they are sufficiently opened to vs in the holy historye by his beloued Apostle Paule yf you had stayed your selfe with their manifestatioÌ„ you should not haue looked for your HN. to make knowen the same but it is to be doubted by your speach that you meane some other comming of Christ in this lyfe and not when he shall come at the general day of Christ his second comming when he shall come with glory maiesty and powre to iudge the world with righteousnes You affirme that then he shall accomplish whatsoeuer he spake by the Prophets from the beginning The Prophets spake as they were commaunded to kingdomes and Cityes certefying of the destruction determined and the captiuities whereunto the people should be ledde many of their Prophesyes confirmed the comming of Christ c. which are alredy come to passe Your meaning I doubt of but I will not take you so short nor hunt for any aduauntage of wordes but I tell you playne your speach is very doubtâ—ull Vitel. NOw wheÌ„ the Lord of his goodnes had â—eleased me out of my blindneâ— and opened mine eyes thâ—Ì„ saw
I that all people vpon earth which were withouâ— the house of Loue were all â—rapped in vnbeliefe and that there â—as noâ—hing among them but vaâ—iâ—unâ—e â—trâ—fe and contenâ—ion reuiling blaspheming misusing deridâ—ng taunâ—â—ng and â—hecking and euery one would haue right and be the commâ—â—â—lâ—ye of Christ and condemned all others for hereticâ—es and false Christiâ—ns none would be culpable or beare the blame but euery one put the fault vpon an other Aunswere WEre you so relesed of your blindnes that you were not subiect to be blind againe for that is a questioÌ„ were your eyes so opened as HN. sayth of himselfe in the preâ—ace of his pâ—ophesye the sight of mine eyes became clearer then the Christall and mine vnderstanding brighter then the sunne â—ou would faine counterfaite your Aucthor in wordes which become neither of you both with your opened eyes you saw that all people which were without the house of loue were wrapped in vnbeliefe which in playne speach is that all the world which hold not your doctrine nor beleue it are vnbeleuers If this be true then are you vncharitable to lurke in corners and hide this doctrine among yourselues and will let so few be pertakers thereof No feare of torment no threatninges of men should preuaile nor stonish you if this your saying were true is there nothing vpon earth but variaunce contention c You speake of your sight but you haue put on a payre of blinde spectaâ—leâ— and so see nothing For if you saw aright you should to your comfort sâ—e the Gospell preached true mortification vsed among some and for contentions and strife you your Aucthor HN. are the cause thereof who possessed with phantasticall spirites haue troubled the quiet proceeding of Christ his gospell in that Sathan rayseth vp sectes and errors it is a manifest tokeÌ„ that he enuieth the prosperitye of the same gospell For in tyme of Poperâ— when men followed dreames and illusions then SathaÌ„ was quiet but now the Gospell is published to the comfort of Châ—istes Church now â—athan besturres himselfe in his members to moue contentious persons to disquiet the â—oyfull proceeding thereof Where wheat doth grow ther cockle and â—arnell will shew it selfe you are those that make the contention and quarell and yet cry what disssentions are in the world you say euery one challengeth to be called the comminaltye of Christ Why flee ye the name Church putting in stede thereof comminaltes but so you may be lyke your Aucthor in wordes you care not how vnlyke vnto the scriptures you teach Vitell. ANd I saw that by that occasion there was much murmuring vprore rebellion disobedâ—ence to God and to spirituall and temporall gouernors and the lord caused me to see also that there should be no peace erected which should remain or continue without the most holy seruice of loue c. Also then shal no kingdome prosper which is agaynst or despiseth the kingdom of the loue For it is the kingdome of God the Father of God the Sonne of God the holy Ghost For the kingdome of Israell shall be set vp againe and the Children of loue shall raign there in with God and all his Sayntes vnto whom be laud honor and praâ—se froÌ„ generation to generation both now and euer Amen Answere AFter this mans blindenes was restored then he saw much murmuring c. Anâ— yet you could neuer se rightlâ— into your selues for if you cold then should you perceue that you your selues the Papists Anabaptistes Pelagians and Libertines are those that make the rebellioÌ„ and are cause of the dissention and disobedience to spiritual and temporall gouernors And further you saw no peace should be on earth or continue without the seruice of loue The doutfull significatioÌ„ of this word Loue is often confounded amoÌ„g your Familie sometime you woulde haue it taken for God sometime for Christ and sometime for your wholl doctrine and profession and sometime for a property or vertue proceeding froÌ„ God but to take it simply as I thinke you mean it for the order and manner of your doctrine and seruice of God Then we aunswere that Christ his peace we haue inioyed in his church and it hath contynued with his church since his assention and yet I confesse that such was his pleasure to afflicte his church to suffer wicked persons to persecute the same yet his peace the church neuer wanted Therfore your sight was very dimme when you saw such things Moreouer you saw that no kingdome should prosper which is agaynst the loue Kingdoms and nations haue prospered and do prosper by the protection of the almighty with his blessing and yet are against your Familie of loue Therfore cleare your spectacles and looke better vpon the matter for surely I thinke you were in some dreame wheÌ„ you writ this And wher as you would haue vs beleeue y kingdome and seruice of the loue is y kingdome of God the father the sonne and the holy Ghost this you haue brought in to make the world beleeue that your Familie of loue is nothing els but the true doctrine sent from God but you herein deceue your selues and others for the doctrine taught among you is strange and no where to be found in the word of the Lord and your Author HN. geueth testimonye onâ—ly of himself without warrant from God or his word therfore your doctrine in the Familie of loue is not from God the Father c. If you say that others also geue testimony of HN. his doctrine name vnto vs it is your Fidelitas who in deede in his booke chapter 2. sex 8. sayeth as followeth You shal furthermore vnderstaÌ„d â–ª that the iudgement which the God of heauen hath declared through HN. vpoÌ„ earth set forth through the same his minister is very true that also the same iudgement pronounceth and declareth the right forme and state of all what is in heauen and vpon earth of all what is Gods and mans spirituall and heauenly and of all what is naturall right and reasonable And that no such wonderfull workes coulde be wrought nor brought forth by any man vnles God were with him c. In deed this fellow Elder Fidelitas testyfieth much of your HN. But whether his testimony be true let vs examine it a litle If the iudgemeÌ„t which God hath declared through HN. be very true theÌ„ was there no truth before For HN. teacheth such a doctrine as was neuer heard of in the world since the creation especially the doctrine how man is godded with God c. and thaâ— man and God had all one order being and nature Also the doctrine of peâ—â—eâ—â—â—on to be in this life attayned vnto and that the law is possible to be kept all which if it be very true what â—N hath declared and set sorth then doth the holy Ghost in the scriptures teach vs contrary as shall appeare more â—n treating of the particularities of these poynts Moreouer if we would geue credite to this
Fideliâ—as he would haue vs beleeue that Nâ— pronounceth and declareth the right state of all what is in heauen and vpon earth what is Gods and mans spiritual and heauenly naturall right and reasonable c. Belike he thought his bookes should neuer haue been perused by any but of such as are drowned in the drowsie dremes oâ— this fantastical doctrine One More of â—uâ—â—er in â—â—â—ng â—â—wardes dayes and one 〈…〉 of Manchester in this our Quéenes dayes tolde of such vayne and friuoloâ—s matters but they were punished as Lunatikes And whereas your Fidelitas sayth that no such works could be wrought by anye vnlesse the Lord were with him this is as strongly affirmed as the other part is monstrous and vngodly For I praye you examine what are the works that HN. hath so notably brought forth which doth manifest y God is with him His bookes peraduenture you meanâ— What his bookes are and out of what spirit they procéed is easely perceiued A simple wit hauing such a guide could deuise agaynst Christ his doctrine as fine riddles as HN. hath published should carry a more shew of truth then his bookes do For schollers and children are able to confute his follies sufficiently they cary such absurdities with them both against the Scriptures of God and against all common reason and nature The kingdome of Israell shal be set vp again the childreÌ„ of loue shall raigne therin you say but when shall this your prophesie take place you tell vs not In deede Dauid George tolde vs before the like propheâ—y that the true house of Dauid should be erected and the children of loue should raigne therin Why delite you your selues with such speaches For in this worlâ— these thinges according to the letter â—hall not happen but they are spoken to assure vs of the resurrection and to shadow the ioyes of the kingdome of heauen whereby our harts should be lifted vp with expectation of his promise Vitell. BEhold these be the causes wherthrough the lord hath moued me to minister the seruice of loue vnto other wherein I haue sought only the honor of God and the saluation of al people which hope in god and long for his righteousnes Also I haue through the goodnesse of the lord met with certan good willingnons which haue submitted them obediently and faithfully vnto the lord and his gratious word which also haue followed the couÌ„cel of christ to the clensing of their hartes and therin doth their light shine before men wherin they seeke the laude of the lord and the saluation of all meÌ„ Answere WHen you had séene dissention vprores contentioÌ„ c. in the world then the Lord you say moued you to minister the seruice of loue vnto others you toke the aforesayd â—robles as a fit occasion geueÌ„ you to begin your doctrine surely you bewâ—ay your selfe in your speach You thought it was good fishing when the waters were troubled and tooke occasion to teach false doctrine when you saw great broiles and tumults in the world But where you affirme that the Lord moued you to do this â–ª wherby shall we know that this your bare affirmation is true onely because you say so but the holy Ghost hath warned vs not to geue credit to such Ier. 14. ver 14. sayth The Prophetes prophesie lâ—es in my name I haue not sent them nether did I commaund them nether did I speake to them but they prophesie to you a falâ—e vision diuination vanity and deâ—eitfâ—lnes of their own harts Also Eze. 13. ver 3. Wo be to the foolish Prophets that follow their own spirit haue seene nothing We may not beleue euery spirit but try the spirit whether he be of God Iohn 4.1 The Lord moued you not to leue your arte calling and to minister a strange doctrine to the people but the spirit of pride and vaynglory and a desire of singularity puâ—t vp your mind Like as in time past you did as eagerly maintayn other strange monsterous opinions The causes that moued you to spred your doctrine are not sufficient you haue thrust in your selfe into a function and calling nether allowed of god nor ordayned by mâ—n and thiâ— your ministery is disobedience to God and the publick magistrate neither hâ—ue you herein fought the honor of God â–ª saluation of al people as you afâ—irmâ— If you had sought God his honor your voice should publickly haue been heard and not in corners In that you haue met with certayn good willing ones which haue submitted themselues c. therin we beshrew you lament that any simple soules are deceiued by your perswasions and in deede it seemeth some such there are that geue eare to your sugred wordes For the poyson of aspes is vnder youre tongue Psal. 14. Why come you not â—orth to mayntayn such doctrine as you haue taught why proue you not your doctrin by the holy Scripture Why suffer you your schollers to be troubled and imprysoned but for your selfe you are saâ—e inough and when they should render a reason of their hope and faith then they vtterly deny your doctrine It séemeth that such a principle you haue taught theÌ„ to affirme and to deny only keeping their conscience secret Now where you say that your good willing ones or schollers their light hath shone before men wherâ—by you would heare vs in hand that your pupilâ— be men of excellent life as you set them out so do they your life as appeares by their letters so one of you commeÌ„deth and prayseth another anâ— so must you â—éedes do when you want good neighborâ— y best way iâ— to praise your selues Vitell. ALso I haue geuen forth certayn bookes which are translated word for word as neare as we could out of the bokes of HN. and some of them haue come to the hands of enuyous persoÌ„s which are diuilâ—ed with the deuill either diuelishly minded for they be slaunderers and liâ—rs and also blasphemers whilest they haue â—laâ—phemed thâ— holy Ghost and hiâ— most holy seruice of loue Moreouer they hauâ—â—ayled at â—euyled condemned despised and blasphemed the Lord his elected minister HN. If this come not out of enuy although they say nay then I know no enuyous spirites And although there be many enuiors of the loue and her most holy seruice yet are theâ—e two horryble blasphemers of late rysen vp whose bookes arâ— come to my hands The one is named Steuen Batman the othâ—r I.R. But they might both be named with one name Tertullus if they coÌ„tâ—nue in their lying wherof I must wryte although I haue no pleasure in such workers of wickednes Aunswere THat the bokes of HN. were translated out of Dutch by you we knew before but in distributing them to the Quéenes subiects without any allowance of the magistrate contrary to law therin we tel you you haue not dealt liâ—e a â—rue subiect nor a christiaÌ„ you complayned of disobedience to magistrates but you your selfe are the most disobedient of
your wordes arâ— no warrantes â–ª you say I dispise him because he aâ—firmeth that he is a Prophet sent of God his person I hate not onely his doctrine and vaine prophesyes I vtterly mislyke and most of all because many of this our natiue countrye of â—ngland are by him and his vayne prophesies deluded and deceaued and being moued with zeale for my brethren and countreymen I haue bent my selfe with such poore sâ—ill as I haue to vtter his follyes and vaintyes there be many learned in Christ his Church farre better ab e to haue written hereof to whose office it properly belongeth to clense the Church being defiled with heresies yet I take y man to be none â–ª of the Church of Christ that thinketh he hath no office in his Church Yf I dislyke him because hâ—â—arth he is a Prophet c. I haue great reason and good warrant so to doe Iere. chap. 23. verse 16. sayth Heare â—ot the wordes of the Prophetes which prophesie vnto you vaâ—itye they speake the 〈◊〉 of their owne â—art and not the 〈◊〉 of the Lord we are also warned by Christ and his Apostles not to geue credit to such vaine Prophets and false teachers Peter Epistle 2. chap. 12. There shall be false teachers among you which priuily shall bring iâ— damnable heresies euen denying the Lord that hath bought theÌ„ with infinite places more Since Christ our Lord asceÌ„ded into heauâ—â—â— office of prophesing â–ª and foretelling of thingeâ— haue ceased in the Church onely the Apostles were 〈◊〉 with the spirite of God and by the power of the same spirite foretold of many thinges that should happenâ— but it ceased 〈◊〉 many haue risen vp and haue prowdly prophessed but they 〈◊〉 ben conâ—â—ned as false Prophetes euen as your HN. 〈◊〉 â—ou say the tyme may come thaâ— I shall â—inde his prophesies true you put the tyme vncertaine but you haue told your Familye in corners as I am 〈◊〉 informed that many of your prophets sayinges should eare thiâ— haue bin fulâ—â—lled touching the publick receiuing of your â—octrine which are proued false and vntrue although I 〈◊〉 beleue it yet I ought not to dispise it you say why I ought to beleue it you render no reason we are forbidden to credite any such as I haue proued In y I ought not to dispise it I pray you shew some cause â— tho vanitye tâ—at be â—ttereth touching â–ª hiâ—â—â—â—ference with almighty God â–ª how the power of God coÌ„passed him â—bout with a 〈…〉 c. and agayne hâ— sayth thâ— being of God gaue forth his sound 〈◊〉 and spake vnto â—e HN. through the spirite of his Loue all thesâ— wordes and sayd 〈◊〉 there was neâ—eâ—â—ny that writ in Christes Church that euer vsed any such vayne and prowde speach I hauâ— sayd y it is requisitâ— that HN. if he will needeâ— haue his new office of a Prophet to be credited that he must worke miracles â–ª which it semeth he doeth as some in your Familye in sadnâ—s haue tould amongest other matters this is auouched that NH is not ignoraunt in any language no not the learned tongues he hath written an â—pistle vnto the Byshops here in â—ngland in latin I thinke he hath his knowledge and learning by some bequest as a legacy also it was affirmed to me of credit that some of the Familye going ouer into Flaunders to him be tould them of all their message and instructions before they spake such markes and notes you geue out to your Familye to establishe your blinde Prophet You say I ought not to dispise the Dutch language wherein the Lord hath broughâ— forth his most holy seruice of Loue. To dispise any language I may not onely in coÌ„parison of other learned tongues I haue sayd it is rude And was there no seruice of God before among other nations but now brought forth in the Dutch tongue I would that there were no more heresies brought forth in the Dutch tongue but onely this of Nâ— but it is knowen to many learned y sundry heresies are written and published in that language to the griefe of God his children You further say that I neuer councelled with the Lord therefore know nothing of his secreates You sat vpon your iudgement seat when you writ this how know you that I neuer couÌ„elled with the Lord to councell with God wée may as we are taught that is in praying and hearing of his most holy word which I hope in the Lord that euer he will guide me with his holy spirite to doe and performe all the dayes of my lyfe as for your secret Reuelations and Prophesyes I am vtterly ignoraunt of they are things proper to your Familye but not to the Church of Christ. Vitel. MOreouer you writ not right where as you call it his Euangeliâ—um Râ—gnâ— yet doth Saint Paule say â—f ouâ— Gospell be â—id it is from them that be lost whole minde the God of this world hath blinded c. For it iâ— not writteÌ„ his and you finde fault with the pooâ—e Family of Loue as though thâ—y dâ—ny it â—iâ—h theiâ— mouth keepe it 〈◊〉 in their haâ—tâ— but you confesse the Lord â–ª 〈◊〉 your mouth and your hart is fâ—ll of bitternes and euen so you deny him with your hart and mouth Aunswere I Haue called a booke which H N. hath published his gospel because it is another and not agreeing with Christ his gospel therfore rightly termed his You would excuse it by saint Paule as though HN. had as good right to wryte and publish a gospel as that shining vessel S. Paul. Whether will you lift vp your prophet so high that with Lucifer he may be cast down as low we are warned not to credite any bringing another gospell he is accursed as sayth the holy ghost there was neuer any godly man since the Apostles time that durst be so presumptuous as intitle any broke and call it a gospell ' therefore your Author hath dealt therin presumptuously and wickedly Now whereas I find fault with the poore Family in affirming denying I would I had not some cause so to doo but where you ad this word poore if it be so you are the cause therof for with your manyfold collections to set out the Authors works you haue in dâ—ede made many an honest wealthy housholder poore as I can testifie and name the parties and you haue beene charged herewith before this time You say moreouer that I confesse the Lord with my mouth deny him with my hart If this be true then am I worthy great reprehention but if it be false then are you worthy the reward of a lyar and slaunderer In deede it is somewhat gréenous vnto you and your patience can scarce beere it that I haue so openly manifested you and your Author yet therin I confesse I haue done nothing but my duety which I owe vnto the church of Christ that the simple may be warned of your suttle snares and deceits wher with
scarce credible But at â—mden from that day to this opeÌ„ly he durst not be séene therefore some other matter was layd to his charge then professing a strange doctrine For his credite sake it had beâ— conuenient to haue geuen some reason to proue that he was accused for no other cause let the world iudge indifferently where is more probabilitye Vitell. ANd after there was iustice desired then they restored agayne his goodes vnto his children but there was much taking away by the vntrue officers for there was no inuitory taken therof but whether he went and where he had his abode that shall in tyme be manifest when as the Lord shall moue the hartes of the Magesâ—â—ates to desâ—re to know the ground of the trueth then shall it all be declared to them but the trueth thereof is yet vnknowen vnto you therefore you may be content and not trouble your selfe therwiâ—h Answere THe Magâ—strates you say redeâ—iuered hâ—â— goodes to his children therfore they were men that imbraced Iustice and so would they haue ministred Iustice to HN. If he would â— stayd but the safest way was to preuent the matter by flight you are very â—riuye to HN. and his doingâ—s that can so redely tell what was missing now the Magestrates here shall know the trueth where he is and where he hath made his abode euer since but sure it is little to be regarded where he is and I thinke the Magestrates doe hartely wishe that he had neuer ben borne nor you neither he for deuising your new familye and you for publishing the same to our countrye and translating tâ—e bookes which certainly was not done lyke a godly Christâ—aÌ„ nor a true â—nglish harted man For in â—eede as I am informed you are of the Dutch race your selfe and so appearâ—th by your vaine and curious hed salling froÌ„ one error to another as those countrymen are apt vnto â—f the boâ—kâ—s had remained in dutch our quiet Country should neuer haue â—in troubled with this new familye to the griefe oâ— God his childreÌ„ whiâ—h bewaile y state that you haue brought many vnto at this day veye well assured that although ye lurke in corners and send fourth your Libels you cannot escape his handes who seeth euery corner of our hartes And as HN. by slight would not abide the triall of his matter euen so doe ye follow the same course sayle rightly by his compas for stand to your doctrine nor come to conference you dare not but priuily insinuat your doctrine where your wordes are taken for Oracles The Magestrates would gladly that you should geue a reason more agreable to truth of your dealinges and doctrine as for HN. where he became or where he is they little passe and wheâ—e you say that to me the trueth is vnknowen it may be as you say neither will I trouble my selfe much therein but that you of his Familye might imbrace trueth is my chiefe purpose which cannot be in my opinion holding your selues captiue to the illusions of HN. Vitell. FVrthermore you say that he doth cal himselfe Restorer of al things whereunto I aunswere that there is no suâ—h word written by him and yet hath thâ— Lord accomplished according to his promises through the â—piriâ—â— of Christ in him all that he hath spoken through the mouth of his seruauntâ—s the Prophets more where you say that HN. cannot erre or miâ—â—e the right c. I know not how hee or any one should erre whiâ—hâ— is indewed with the holy Ghost led by the spiâ—ite of Christ which leadeth into all trueth Aunswere THat he doth so call himselfe I haue written therein as I â—inde it collected by the commissioners who delt specially in that matter but you affirme as much or more of him then I charged him with For you say that the Lorde â—ath accomplished through the spirite of Christ in him all that he hath spoaken through the mouth of his Prophetes and this we thinke to be very straingely auouched of you contrary to trueth the Prophecyes of such whome the Lord raysed vp to coÌ„fort the weake estate of his Church in the tyme of the law were fulfilled in their seasons especially such prophesyes as either touched the captiuitye of the Iewes or the destruction of their Citie also many of their prophesies concerned the comming of our merciful Messias the maner of his byrth passion death and resurrection Now to affirme that all these are fulfilled in â—â— is very horâ—â—ble and moÌ„strous but such is your vanitye that so you may extoll the dignitye of your Aucthor you care not what vntruthes ioyned with blasphemye you vtter the lyke speach HN. auoucheth of himselfe saying what God hath spoken â—hrough hâ—s holy Prophets what is written of Châ—ist should also in vs and with vs beâ—ome fâ—lâ—illed c. â—ow you are able by any shaddow of trueth to proue anâ— of these two sayinges true it had bin requisite that you should a shewed for they carry great absurdityes both in trueth and reason Whether doe you lift vp your Aucthor by such vntrue speaches it doth appeare very lamentable to all God his children this is proude bosting and exaltation such as S. Paule did warne the Church to take heede of such I doe much maruell that Christian men with any face can write thus presumpteouslye of mortall man although you would qualisye your saying that this is brought to passe by the spirite of Christ in him but this helpeth not neither doth it stand with the will of God reueled that any mortall creature should be so exalted For if we should demaund of you how we shall know this to be true then you aunswere by his workes which I thinke you meane his bookes Yf otherwise you meane some miraculous dealing which you are priuy of and not knowen it were necessary for his credit and your honesty not to hide it any longer but simply to manifest the same Moreouer you say that none can erre which are indued with the holy ghost c. We know that the spirite leadeth into al trueth yet those vessels hauing by grace such priuiledge doe often in shew and countenaunce appeare as though the spirite were queÌ„â—hed or as fire raked vp in ashes example here of Peter who hauing the spirite of God yet did thingâ—s contrary to trueth and therefore was rebuked by Paule and that worthely many in Christ his Church no dout haue bin guided by the spirite of God and yet sometymes haue shewed theÌ„selues humane creatures as wanting that excellent priuiledge appropriate to Christ which sayd I am trueth such is our condition we may not reach higher not to erre is a speciall title belonging to Christ our Lord and not to mortall man although lightened with the spirite we must rest conteÌ„t with such honor as it pleaseth him to graunt who is Lord of his creatures and not to reach so high as presumpteously to chalenge a title and dignity farre aboue our capacitye and not
with all to deceaue all How do you obserue the politik ordinaunce of the Maiestrate in printing your bookes and publishing them to the Queenes subiectes contrary to the law made in that behalf your obedience câ—nsisteth in wordes but not in 〈◊〉 â—hâ—refore with more truth you might saye we will not be obedient to Maiâ—strates In that you coÌ„descend â—oâ— iâ— anye thing contrary to God c. Therin you say well but I would you were found herein true of your promise for then your HN. and hys doctrine with hys prophesies should not haue such credit amoÌ„g you as appeareth if his doctrine be not directly agaynst the Lorde our God and hys commaundementes I apeale vnto the iudgement of all God his Children that shall reade these conferences You accompt none vngodly but such as blaspheme the Lord and despise his most holy seruice of loue Whome you accompt blasphemers before is declared iâ— any speake aagaynst your HN. or your Family of loue Ipso faâ—to he is a blasphemer then all the worlde which doe despise your Familye are blasphemers your conclusion must needes fall out euen so whereby appeareth what reuerent opinion you haue of any and of al that are not of your Family if you learned this of HN. consider better of it for very shame of y worldâ— if no reuereÌ„ce nor feare of God can moue you You confesse that there is no man righteous vntill the Lord deliuer him froÌ„ hys vnrighteousnes but howe we are deliuered you wee greatly vary we according vnto the holy Scripture do acknowledge Christ to be our righteousnes which he hath wrought perfectly in him selse which by fayth wee apply to our vnrighteousnes hys obedieÌ„ce his loue his pacience c. we by fayth apply to our disobedience to our hatred to our impacience c. all what was in Christ is made ours by grace yet still wee in our earthen vessels are coâ—rupt sinâ—ull and vâ—yde oâ— anye suche vertues as the law requireth But â—ou on the contrarye affirme that by Christ working in vs by hys spirite we are made righteous and so clensed from our vnrighteousnes that we are chaunged into hys perfection so that in all our actions wordes and thoughts nothing can â—low oâ— pâ—ocâ—ede from vs but sucâ—e as procâ—ede â—rom Christ because we are guyded by the same spirite but whether you or wee speake truth let the holy Scriptures beare witnesse then may be say that the Lord is his righteousnes it is very true but how and in what manner the Lord may be sayd to be our righteousnes is to be vnderstoode we acknowledge y hee in hys owne person is our righteousnes and sanctificatioÌ„ but you will haue hys righteousnes wrought in you by his spirtie the difference coÌ„sisteth in the maâ—er we acknowledge in him all strength all piety all obedience and in our selues all weakenes all vngodlinesse and all disobedience but you will needes haue all in all to be in vs whiche to much blemisheth hys glory and triumph if we shoulde also in our persons triumph our triumph standeth not in doing but in beleeuing in him which did Therefore as you haue charged vs wrongfully to be aduocats for sinne so may we rightly call yâ—u Patrons for our corrupt rotten and earthen vessels Vitell. MOre you are offended at the confession of the Familye of Loue vnderstand the matter well that there is no man coÌ„pelled therevnto but if any one be wounded or trobled in his coÌ„science then he may to his coÌ„fort make his euel thoughts or els what manifest vnto a priest or Elder aâ—cording vnto the counsell of the holy scripture Also I thinke it is an ordinauÌ„ce in the Church of England that if any one be troubled in minde he shall come and aske counsell of the person or minister and I thinke he must then make manifest his thoughtes c. And the Catholiâ—k ReligioÌ„ holdeth thought word and deede but there are many that will compell men to deâ—lare their thoughts â–ª whiâ—h 〈◊〉 nâ—â—ther pâ—iestes nor Ministers of the â—ord Aunswere TOuching your coÌ„fessioÌ„ which â—ou acknowledge to be voluntary and not coaâ—ted I haue signified my dislyking your Auâ—thor HN. doâ—h say it is expedient that they of his Familye make maniâ—est all that hath bin coÌ„mitted both what it is wherevnto our nature draweth vs vnto here it apppeareth â–ª if you follow your Author directly he leueth the matter not so voluntary as of necessitye And this must be done as you say vnto a pâ—iest or Elder to please the Papitles I thinke you haue added this worde priest but we tell you that such manner of confession the scriptures allow not of if any be wounded in conscieÌ„ce he may to his comfort repayre to any godly or learned preacher â—o shew his griefe and to receaue counsell and comfort to his consolation by the scripture agaynst the prick of conscience or the law which troubleth many miÌ„s mindes but that of necessitye he must make manifest all thoughts all what our nature doth incline vnto there is no warrant what ordinaunce is in the Church of England you haue not shewed but that he must of necessitye make manifest his thoughts it is vntrue it is left frâ—â— onely by way of perswasion men are moued to repaire in such extremitye to their learned and godly pastors and by no ordinaunce but this appeareth that you accompt not your selfe as any member of this Church of England no maruell for you holde it more safe to professe HN. his Familye then to be an obedient child of Christ his Church Whereof England is a speciall part What the Catholick religion holdeth touching confession is no cloke to shaddow your dealinges with all for we tell both you and them that such a confession as both you and they hold is not agrâ—eing with trueth The Papistes vrge men and accompt them heretickes that deny it and you hold it as an expedient thinge neither haue you both any warrant so to doe Some doe compell men to declare their thoughtes which are neither priestes nor ministers as you affirme who they are you tell vs not yet I suppose you meane the coÌ„missioners who â—xamining your Familye touching their fayth and doctrine found them so suttle by your instructioÌ„s that in y end they required theÌ„ to declare their knowledge what they thought of their Author HN. and I thinke the Magistrate authorised by the Prince may in such cases require vs to maniâ—est what opinion we haue of any Author or what we thinke of him but you haue taught them to say we know him not and therefore to commend him or discommend him wee may not such sleightes you deuise wheÌ„ the Magistrats requireth a trueth at your handes and here is also declared your obedieÌ„ce to rulers your Elders are safe when the poore country people are brought before the Magistrates but when will any of you the â—lders come voluntarily and defend your doctrine and proue it good by souÌ„d argumeÌ„t it
godly or learned man in all ChristeÌ„dome will allow your HN. and his bookes for true doctrine you for your part haue trauelled the most part of this 10. yeares and yet I cannot vnderstaÌ„d of any godly â—r learned man that imbraceth your doctrine onely some erroneus spirites whose heddes haue bin intoxâ—â—ated with other horrible heresies doe ioyne with you in these your wicked attempes also certayâ—â— vnlearned country people with whom by your sugred speaches and fayre wordes you haue not a little preuailed to the destructioÌ„ of their soules If you would choose any godly and learned men to heare your reasons and argumentes thâ— matter might quietly be debated you doe but in wordes make a shew aâ— though you would stand to indifferent and vnpâ—rciall iudgement But when it commeth to tryall you will be iudged onely by your selues which is the safest way to cloke your impietyes Vitel. THerefore consider what you haue done for I am sure you are not appoynted a iudge by the Lord but Christ will come with his Saintes and iudge the world and all nations with righteousnes and he will send his Aungells for to kepe and to gather the corne together and they shall bring the corne into the Barne but the weedes shall be cast into the vnquenâ—hable fire therefore iudge you nothing before the Lord come whilest you cannot as yet discerne the hearbes from the weedes nor the corne from the chaffe for with the same iudgement that you iudge shall you be iudged in asmuch as you are guilty â–ª in the same which you falsely iudge ouer others Aunswere I Am not appoynted a Iudge but Christians must not be lyke Horse and Moyle that haue no vnderstanding I onely admonish you as is euery maÌ„s duty of such doctrine as you teach to the poore people which is corrupt and therefore knowing the same I haue manifested it to the world that your cause might sooner if you be disposed come to tryall and that trueth might appeare where it is You further discourse of the second comming of Christ I hope you meane it not otherwise but in the resurrection of all fleâ—â— I writ this because HN. in the preface of his booke called a good Instruction of the vpright sayth the 2. division sayth these wordes For as much theiâ— as that now in this same newest day the comming of Iesus Christ as a Lord in his maiestye from the right hand of God his Father appearâ—th and becommeth manifested vnto 〈◊〉 with full clearenes of his heauâ—nly illumination â—ccording to the scripâ—â—â—e c. Here HN. telleth that Iesus Christ is come and is manefest to you of his Familye and that he is come from the right hand of God his father Our fayth is that he shall come from theÌ„ce in the end of the world but HN. telleth his Familye that he is come therefore your wordes and your Authors agree not this is very suspitious doctrine touching the resurrection and this augmenteth more suspition that one of your Family being asked before many witnesses touching Christes comming to iudgement did aunswere playne that he was already come meaning his second comming I could name the partye yet my hope is that you teach not so heathnishly of our resurrection and of Christ his glorious comming to Iudgement Vitell. MOreouer you affirme in your wrighting that you and all that are as your are whome you â—all God his children doe feele your selues wounded with sin vnto death but by grace geuen from aboue that wholesome medecine Christe Iesus whose passion hath purged whose bloud hath cleÌ„sed whose death hath cured all your diseases and maladies c. So you confesse you neede not any more for you are clensed and cured of al your diseases wherefore do you then condemne HN. which doth teache none other doctrine where through men shal come to lyfe euerlasting but through the passioÌ„ death and bloud of Iesus Christ but you are clensed as you say and therefore haue you no more neede of Christ nor of hys safemaking oyle of the godly saluation for you affirme that ye are all cleane and I would ye were clensed through Iesus Christ for then coulde yee neither slaunder nor lye Aunswere I Haue sayd that all God his Children feele themselues wounded with â—hâ— vnto death c. the remedy I hauâ— also shewed as you haue set down but your conclusion is false and cannot bee collected of my wordes that I neede not anye more because I am clenseâ— and cured for we need his prouidencâ— still to protect vs and his grace to defend vs in all our actions for wee arâ— stil subiect to â—all into sinnes not withstanding in the purpose of God we bee hys elect and to our comfort do feele the Lorde worke in vs a hate of sinne which is a testimony to our conscience that we pertayne vnto the Lord Iesuâ— yet so as the dregges of sinne with the motions thereof lurke in our bodyeâ— although you deny it our battayle against â—inne is continuall and shal neuer haue end vntill our earthly tabernacle shal be turned to dust contrarâ— to your doctrine of perfection you askâ— why I blame HN. whiche teacheth no other doctrine I would be nor you did not but how contrary you speake vnto the truth doth maniâ—estly appeare You charge me agayne vntruely that because we are clensed wee neede no more of Christ this woulde you haue but our needâ— wee still acknowledge our wantes we vtter and yet doubt nothing of our deliuery from sin hell and death and although wee acknowledge this our redemption and forgeuenes of our sinnes yet so as the remembraunce thereof still worketh repentaunce in vs and also wee often feele the law to presse vs the iustice of God to terrefie vs our coÌ„science to accuse vs in such trouble are often the children of God but stil by grace giuen vs through fayth wee acknowledge Christe Iesus who hath interposed himselfe betweene vs and the law betwene vs and the Iustice of God c. with such conflictes doth the Lord still exercise hys ChildreÌ„ and so doth hereby schole vs that feeling our want or neede and our miseries we might flee to him for streÌ„gth for mercy for help but I doubt whether you in your Family with your presumtuous doctrine of perfectioÌ„ do féel any of these exercises the godly Christian is partaker of â–ª Now you wishe that I were clensed through Iesus Christ for then coulde I neither slaunder nor lye â—oe here appeareth vnawares that you when you are clensed can sinne no more but for my owne part I acknowledge and I doubt not but verely beleue through Christ that my sinnes by his death are clensed and yet subiect both to lye and slaunder Although I know not neither is it yet manifest vnto me that I haue wittingly either belyed or slaundered either you or your Aucthor or maliciously haue written any thing agaynst you yet it may be that I haue bin informed otherwise then trueth in
which only depende on reuelations And you which brag of your Author which is as he sayeâ—h taught froÌ„ god his own mouth hath hard y souÌ„d of his voice Thus miserably are you carâ—ed away by illusioÌ„s herin you deceiue your selues and many others Out of the wisdome of the flesh sprange all Christopher Vitelles â—rrors Note I pray thee Reader that this Libeller acknowledgeth to haue bin in him many errors comprehended in this word â—all and anonâ— thou shall finde him saying he was in no error In deede the church of Christ hath felt to much expeâ—â—ence of your heretâ—call head fraught full of heresies so that if any newer deuice should by Sathan be stirred vp you are as apte an instrument to broach the same as any that I know in England From no other mans bookes did this man sucke his errors and were you in error theÌ„ and by the same meanes may you not still remayne in error haue you any further priuiledge now then you had before Of necessity you must sly vnto your perfection that you cannot erre nor sinne there is no ether excuse to be had here is a mistery For you thinke it an absurde thing that your errors spâ—ang from any other fountaine then the flesh of sinne No bookes no conference were meanes to bring you to this â—rroâ— Loâ—ke well into your selfe and you shall fiâ—de in â—ou now more errors and heâ— esiâ—s then euer you held heretofore â—ou imagined your selfe cleansed and your hâ—use swept but now are sâ—uen morse spirites entered into you as appâ—areth by your doctrin and you are become ten solde the child of destruction more now thâ—n beâ—â—râ— And except you repent your ende will be far worse then your beginning Vitell. NEither â—an I blame any man for minâ— own sinnes were gâ—eater and horribleâ— in my sight â–ª then all other menneâ— for although I had â—ed certayne bookes of sundry wryteâ—s yet was I moued to seaâ—â—h â—hether they were grounded vpon the Loâ—ds promyses or no and humbling my selfâ— befoâ—e the Loâ—d aâ— desiâ—ous to doe his will â—o gaue he me to vndeâ—stand that I knew nothing of all his wayeâ— but the troble that I â—as in whereout the Lord delyueâ—ed me â—s not to be expâ—â—ssed And iâ— the Loâ—d of his goodnes had not comfâ—rted me with his holy spiâ—ite through hiâ— most holy seruice of his loue broght forth through HN. his elected minister I should haue remained without hope of life Answere NOw commeth this Vitell to declare a tragedy of himself which no man can gaâ—nsay being a thing secret and vnknowen to the world For our secret conflictes are troublesome I graunt when our conscience shall pres vs with the greatenes of our sinnes but whether it were so or no who can controll him or els who will beleeue his own wordes speaking so many things contrary to truth already But I must certifie that this is a speciall point of practise in the Family that when any in conference doe require how they could so easily leaue the certainty of doctrine which once they earnestly imbraced then shall you heare them tell you of marueilous conflicts much trouble and veration of minde and could neuer attaine to any quietnes vntill by the doctrine of â—â— they found rest vnto their soules But may not this be an illusion of Sathan as otherwise being rightly examined for Sathan is so suttle that if he may get possession of any setled mindes who instructed in godlynes by the scriptures resist his perswasions and so coÌ„meth to conslict of minde in such troubles â–ª where Sathan â–ª by the Lord his permission preuayleth then worketh he in his a certayne security or peace and then they thinke all is well when indâ—de neuer in worse case then so captiued in Sathans tyranny Now this man when he hath set abroad some of his troubles you shall see how he was deliuered by which we may gather what marke he shootes at namely in all troubles and agonyes of minde all must resort to the seruice of Loue set forth by his elected Minister HN. For this man if he had not taken that course he had remained without hope of lyfe certaynly great is the honor wherewith they aduaunce this their priest and prophet aboue all that is called God but my hope is that with the blast of the Lord his mouth which he hath published in the scriptures he shall be confounded and ouerthrowne so low that the fall of him which so exalted himselfe shall be to the comfort of all the Lord his children for whose â—ake he now beginneth to maniâ—est this lying Prophet and will I hope rayse vp to his Church men of zelous mindes which will both write and speake agaynst this wicked man of sinne which is in such credit with deceaued people which the Lord in mercy spedely bring to passe to the glory of thy name the comfort of thy church and the spoyle of Sathan and his ympes Vitell. BVt he gaue me to vnderstande there through that he would be merâ—ifull vnto all penitent sinners how horrible sinnes soeuer they had coÌ„mitted therefore I may say a medicine master getteth gretest prayâ—e by those that haue the filthâ—est and corruptest diseaâ—es as a leprous person and such like â—uen so haue I the gretest cause to land the Lord and must confes that he whâ—ch is mighty hath done great things on me and holy is his name Answere NOw after this man hath shewed his conflict of minde and how he was delyuered through the seruice of loue ministred by HN. Now he telleth that by that same he vnderstood that God would be mercifull to al sinners and I pray you did you not know of this mercy but by HN Were you ignoraunt â—of the Scriptures before you came acquainted with him his bookes His mercy and compassion is plentifully declared in the gospell which it seemeth you were ignorant of This medicine mâ—ster HN. hath wrought a great cure vpon this man For as one of your schollers haue written in his defence He teacheth with power and it may be the power of Sathan which leadeth men into errors and heresies Although you imagine that this is wrought by the mighty hand of the Lord abusing the words of the â—anticle which the blessed virgine did set forth magnifying the name of y Lord thereby Touching your diseases which you count to be cured it is out of dout that you are more full of infirmities and desperate diseases then euer you were although you feele them not For a body that feeleth no sicknes yet infirme and weake is hard to be cured yea irrecuperable as Phisitions prescribe Looke therfore more rightly into your selfe and you that are so whole clene you shall finde matter of corruption in you whereupon the true Phisition of our soules Christ Iesus shall if you acknowledge your sicknes and infirmity worke therby such an alteration in you as heretofore you neuer had the lyke but if you stand
will not ioy nor rest in peace vntill all your errors be disclosed and â—ou and your fellowes be brought to â—umble your selues before the Lord without your HN. which the Lord bring spedely to passe Amen Vitell. NOw must I for want of tyme passe ouer and omit many thinges and submit my cause vnto the almighty desiring him of his goodnes for to try our cause in his ballaunâ—e of equitye euen with the Loue and trueth for so shall there then be expressed and testified by the light or Christ that Gods honour is declared with the Loues seruice most sincerely Aunswere THis Libel was not long enough but he muâ—â— oâ—â—t much matter and so as he sayth submit his cause vnto the almighty c. â—ut if you did as becoÌ„meth a true Christian you should not onely submit your cause vnto the Lord who in patience suâ—freth Ipocrites to trouble his Church but also submit your doctrine to be tryed and iudged by his holy word which is a iust iudge in all causes of controuersy For if your protestation shall be admitted without exception theÌ„ euill doers and blasphemers of God and Christ may haue liberty to referre their cause vnto the Lord but since almighty God hath in earth a knowen Church it is requisite that euery one being required should geue account of his fayth and hope as the scriptures doe teach you would haue your cause tryed in the ballaunce of equitye a truer ballance is not then his law which is without blot or wrinkle if you would abide the tryall thereof your doctrine and your patrone HN. should be found lighter then vanitye it selfe Where you adde with the Loue trueth the Loue you so often confound that you know not your selues the meaning thereof sometyme you wil signifie Christ by that name loue sometime a vertue procéeding sometyme a qualitye of the minde sometyme for the exercise which you priuately vse where to finde the exposition of this word Loue you leue it as vncertaine then it shall be expressed you say by the light or Christ that by you God his honor is declared with the Loues seruice sincerely here is Loue agayne ioyned with seruice which cannot meane as I thinke any thing â—lls but God his seruice I take it in the best part if you haue any other more secret misterye therein I leaue to your selues but touching any seruice you doe to God it is Ipocrysye so long as you serue him without Christ or with any other and Christ for he will admit no other to haue place in mens hartes but himselfe he made all he requireth all Vitell. OH what a dauÌ„gerous tyme is it presently in these last dayes and how vnrightly haue many vnregenerated men set vp themselues to geue iudgement with their good thinking For whatsoeuer euery one mindeth thinketh good and electeth â—ther falleth to that same prayseth and iudgeth he for the most best and for a righteousnes thereto also he wresteth the scripture according to his will for the scripture is seruiceable vnto euery one euen as he is minded be it whatsoeuer to be high minded in pleasant lustes either to be debased in misery to be merâ—y or sorowfull with sighing either with thankes to be despised and persecuted or to persecute and despise one an other and many such lyke c. Answere OF the dauÌ„gerous tyme we are not ignorant of and more we tell you that you and your fellowes make the tyme much more daungerous and troublesome with your errors which HN. and you haue raysed vp Now you complayne that vnregenerat men haue set vp themselues you meane by vnregenerat men all others which are not illuminat nor deifâ—ed as your Elders are The children of God for whome Christ dyed whose names are written in the booke of lyfe are regenerate although as I haue sayd before you account none to be regenerat but such as haue no motions of sinne or sinne not but you say that the same vnregenerat men with their good thinking â–ª that same he prayseth and iudgeth for righteousnes but who might worse alledge the same then you who câ—mmâ—nd without reason or cause your Auâ—hor and his moÌ„strous doâ—trinâ— which hath in it such grosse absurdâ—â—yes and most contrary to God and his word and you are they that peâ—uert the scripture to set vp your Prophet and his doctrine and what is spoken of Christ doe you not wickedly apply the same to your HN. doe you not apply this place of Malarhy chap. 3. which our Sauiour Christ verefied to be propesied of Iohn behold I will send my messenger which shall prepare the way before me Againe Math. 11. he shall turne the hart of the Fathers to the children and the hartes of the children c. doe you not I say apply these places to signifye your HN. and that it is ment by him therefore there are none found such wresters of the scriptures as you And where as you affirme that the scripture is seruiceable vnto euery one therein you shew what reuerence you haue vnto y same for although you such others do abuse the scripture contrary to y purpose of y holy ghost yet are the scriptures y wisedome of God reuealed to man and is a perfit law of righteousnes and not as you vngodly and vnreuerently tearme it seruiceable vnto euery one Your companions the Papistes haue as you doe called the scripture a nose of ware a shipmans hose c. but most wickedly and falsely to both your confusions it is the power of God vnto saluatioÌ„ Vnto them that beleue the sauour of lyfe vnto lyfe but vnto such as you are which so vnreuerently speake thereof it is the sauor of death vnto death the scriptures doe not maintayne pleasant lustes nor high mindes as you vnreuerently suppose but they are to comfort and lift vp the sorrowfull and broken mindes and to beate downe and correa the hauty and proud stomackes If vngodly men such as you are abuse them to other purposes the fault is in the persons not in the word Vitell. WHereunto euery one wresteth the scripture and defendeth his cause therewith insomuch that euery one thinketh that he for his part hath the most best Behold with such a misery is the man plagued such manner of good thinking and vnprofitable burthen hath he taken vpon him oh that we left all such and gaue ouer our vnderstanding captiue ether suffred it to be pluâ—kt vnder the obedience of the loue of Iesu Christ and followed after the coÌ„mon brotherly loue innocently or vndeceitfully and continued concordably in prayer vnto God â—l that God receiued vs to mercy released vs froÌ„ the sin of the ignorant knowledge and established his promise on vs to the laud prayse and honor of his holy name and to our saluation Aunswere YF euery one wrest the scripture where shall wee finde Christ his Church who is led by the spirite of trueth according to his promise thâ— greatest wresters of
the word are you your selues as is before shewed that euery one thinketh that he hath the best part as you say For mens thoughtes we referre to his knowledge that is Scrutâ—tor cordium remum Also you affirme that man is plaged with such a miserye and burthen but we rather say oh miserable man out of whose corrupt nature springeth such presumption and wickednes to be vnder the obedience of the Loue of Christ Iesus is our whole care and studyâ— to him onely we cleaue on him we call vpon his mercy we depend and carefully seeke indeuour to be obedient to his will for he is our hope our anker hold our mercy seate our only coÌ„fort in all distresse of mind our phisitioÌ„ in sicknes our gouernour in health our peacemaker the onely purchaser of our health and saluatioÌ„ he is all in all with vs and wée enioy all in all by him and through him and if this sayth were also planted in you then would your HN. be banished out of your hartes and your perfection would soone quaile and in humilitye of spirite you would â—ith vâ— fall downe before this méeke Lambe Christ Iesus and say peccauimus cum patribus nostris c. We haue sinned with our Fathers without which Christ no flesh that is no creature liuing is iustified in his fathers sight and Christ his death is proper to none nor bâ—longeth to none but sinners and such aâ— feele sinne or are laden with sinnes What shall then become of you Iusticiaryes with your perfite state which sinne not to follow brotherly loue is also to be wished both in you and vs and I pray you doe euen the same theÌ„ shall you not séeke out y simple people whose capaciti is lyke vnto ware which will easely receiue any print or marke seek not with your fly and suttle perswasions to seduce theÌ„ with your corrupt doctrine â–ª vnder preâ—ence that you seeke onely the godly lyfe which Christians should follow whereas in déede you séeke to leade theÌ„ from Christ to HN. from the â—omfort of the holy scriptures which sheweth how mercy is offred to all penitent sinnâ—rs vnto a perfite state of lyfe which must be attained in this world which neuer any Christ Iesus except could attayne vnto and so you corruptly leade them away from all comfort in Christ Therefore we will not let to desire the Lord in mercy to preserue his childreÌ„ from your infected poyson Vitel. THerfore speketh the lord through his Prophet Zacâ—ary Iudge righteously and let euery one shew goodnes and mercifulnes vnto his brother and let no man deale vnrightly with another nor with the widowes fatherles sâ—â—angers and poore And let no man imagine any euill against his brother in his haâ—t but alas they will not haue â—â—gard hereupon but â—uâ—ne theâ— backs saith the Lord vnto me and stop their eares that they heare not and harden their haâ—â—es as hard as a diamont For that they should not be obediâ—t to the law the word which the lord sendeth in his spirite through his prophets Aunswere TOuching the saying of â—achary we wish the very same that euery one shew mercy and deale rightly with his brother with the widow and fatherles strangers and poore c. But can you alleadge these places haue no regard to folow the exhortatioÌ„ your selues how rightly do you deale with your brethren that being required to vtter your faith which you hold you deal suttelly and deceitfully with such as with well vnto you and seeke your health and delyuery from error Now regard you that no man imagine euill in his hart against his brother when as you call vs free â—nes Libertiâ—es and wicked blasphemers c. Who turnes their backs who stoppes their â—ares who harden their harts Haue not you turned from Christ to HN Haue not you stopt your eares against all holesome admonition which the holy Ghost hath plentifully in the holy scriptures set forth and only bent your harts vpon the bookes and wrytyngs of HN Haue you not hardened your harts and bent your faces against a manifest truth and placed HN. a prophet priest by whoÌ„ God wil receiue all vnto mercy On whom may this propheticall speach or exhortation be better applyed then vpon your selues and yet will not I goe about to excuse my selfe and others that we do therein what is required but only let y world see that these men of the Family cry out and apply the sayings of the Prophets against vs and for themselues they suâ—pose it belongeth not to them to take waâ—ning thereby in so perfecte a state do they remaine Vitell. O God prepare the harts of the people to the lowlynâ—ssâ— that they might stand mindeâ— in humility to the Loue and loue the comming of thy Christ in his lordlâ—nes through whom the whol earth shal be â—udged with righteousnes which shall moue all might and violence and bring it vnder his obedience and render vnto thee O almighty God the kingdom all power and glory to the end that thou mayest be all in all O god geue this into the harts of the gouernors that they may see it And illuminate all kinges princes Lords and potentates with thy godly wisdome that they may feare thy holy name stand submitted vnto thy Loue and her seruice and might turne them from all violence and misuse and that the world may be inhabited to thy praise in the Loue and in all righteousnes and that all men in true repentance for their sinnes might be turned vnto thee And the horrible plagues of vngodlynes which are come ouer the world for their sinâ—es cause cease and haue an end Answere THis part coÌ„taineth a prayer which this man maketh for all that they might staâ—d minded in humility to the loue as I haue often complayned of the confounding this word Loue and the signification therof so here I will tâ—ke it in y best part to signifie God to whom we craue continually his grace to huÌ„â—le our harts that we may euer standâ— obedyent to his will and that we may look for that ioyfull coÌ„ming of Christ Iesus whose appearing shal be to the comfort of his elect to their surpassing ioy but as a terrible iudge to the wicked despisers of his mercy offered and to such as haue sâ—t vp in their harts any other besides him or follow any other but him or delite in any other sauing hâ—m No violence can resist him no strength preuail with him but as you say all shall be brought vnâ—er his obâ—dâ—ence â—here as you pray that all kings princes c. may â—eaâ—e thy holy name and stand submitted to thy loue â—ere is loue takeÌ„ in another sence therfore you intricatly vse this word Loue wherby your meaning can not easily be found out For here loue and her seruice is meant such doctrine and seruice â—s you teach which you wiâ—h all princes were partakers of if your doctrine were a truth in dâ—â—de then were your prayer
good but forasmuch as your doctrine is false wicked and fantasticall therfore your prayer is corrupte and abhominable and to be despised and all princes that fear the Lord wil become vtter enemies to you â— your doctrine and seek diligently to amend if it be possible your corruptions and I doute not but the Lord hath in his Church men of zealous mindes who will not see the glory of our immortall God nor the death passion and resurrection of Christ Iesus our Lord so defaced darâ—kned and shadowed And that his Church may be purged of such corrupt weedes which spring vp séeking to destroy that good corn which is sowed already O Lord God we humble sinners abiding in the vnity of thy holy Church doe most humbly hartely pray thee eueÌ„ for thy sonne our Sauiour Christ Iesus sake that thou wilt in mâ—rcy looke vpon thy poore afflicted Church and the members thereof that by no malice of Sathan no pretence of collored speach nor no vanity of minde any of thy children be caryed away as straying from thy fould but that O Lord they may agayne be ioyned to thy flock so that so many as pertayne vnto that good shepherd of our soules Christ Iesus may laud and prayse thy name with one voyce and O Lord we most humbly beseech thee to clense thy Church from the filthy dregges of doctrine which wicked meÌ„ through the malice of Sathan haue deuised to disquiet thy peaceable Sion conuert thou them O Lord wée beseech thee mollify their stony hartes which haue set vp a Prophet whome thou O Lord hast not sent let them O Lord behold how farre they haue declyned from thy wayes and followed the doctrine of deceaueable men let them see from whome they haue departed to whom they cleaâ—e fast And although we O Lord by our offences and the manyfold transgressions wherwith we prouoke thy merciâ—ull goodnes who doe know thy will and yet are so slow performerâ— therof wherby thou O Lord doest punish our offences so that wicked men now set vp theÌ„selues against vs accusing vs and that worthely of the breaking of thy holy lawes So O Lord although we haue thus sore prouoked thy goodnes by our offences yet we beseech thee consider thy sonne our Lord and Sauiour whose obedience righteousnes to thy will â–ª thou hast by promise made it ours so that beloÌ„ging to thy sonne we are shadowed vnder his righteousnes and couered vnder his winges in safety from eternall destrucâ—ion But such is thy goodnesse O mercifull God to try thy children here in earth how stedfast we will bid battaâ—le against Sathan and his impes and how constant we will abide therein so that no blast nor inuation of enemies shall I hope shake that foundation of faith that thou hast plâ—nted in vs which we most humbly desire thy maiesty to increase and that we may perseuâ—re and continue in the vnity of thy holy church in this life and after we may inioy tâ—e fruition of thy godly maiâ—stye and sing prâ—yses vnto thee world without end Vitell. O Lord let vs finde grace before thine eyes and heare ouâ— humble sâ—pplication which we make vnto thee in the sorrowfulnesse of our haâ—ts For a broaken hart and a sorrowfull spâ—â—ite wilt thou O Lord not despise â–ª for euen there wilt thou enter 〈◊〉 and therby mâ—â—e thine habitation and sanctifie thy name from genâ—ration tâ—â—enâ—â—â—tio◠〈◊〉 in euerlastingnes It is very true Answere O Lord we bâ—seech thée turne the harts of thesâ— deceaueâ— people and graunt them thy holâ— sâ—irit y they may discern thy truth tauâ—ht in thy holy word and not geue eaâ—e vnto anâ—e which teach coÌ„trary therto ouerthrow their deuices brig to light their deâ—â—â—ts for thy holy names sake That we thy childreÌ„ may reiâ—yce ouer their tâ— uersioÌ„ so together with one voice magnifie praise thy glorious name â–ª and that those straying shâ—â—p may be brought in to thy fold again 〈◊〉 it be thy blesâ—â—d wil Reueale vnto them O Lord we beseech thee the office and death of thy sonne our Lord and Sauiour that they tasting the swetenes thereof may â—orsake the confidence they haue in their perfection and that we may all acknowledge onely Christ Iesus to be perâ—ite and we our selues dust and dung and whatsoeuer is vile let nâ—t Sathan lead theÌ„ captiue but O Lord we besech thee pull them out of the Lyons mouth and conioyne them to thy holy Church out of which they haue wandred ouer long in doctrines of men Let thy strength appeare O Lord and let our weakenes be made open to them let the effect of thy Gospell breake into their hartes of stone that they may tast féele how swâ—ete the Lord is in mercy towardes sinners and how seuere to such as iustify theÌ„selues And if it stand with thy good will pleasure thus to coÌ„uert theÌ„ at the sute of our earnest prayers we shall for the same geue thankes in thy Church euermore But if thy Churche shall haue thereby their tryall made knoweÌ„ to the world herein O Lord kéepe thy children and such as loue thâ— Lord Iesus embrace the ioyfull tidinges of the Gospell in thine owne bosome that they be not led away with any pretences of pietye into error or corruption but defend them as thou hast promised that what pittye a Father hath ouer his childreÌ„ lyke pittye thou O Lord wilt shew vnto theÌ„ which we besech thee graunt vs for thy sonne Iesus Christ his sake to whome with the holy ghost be honor land prayse power and dominion from euerlasting to euerlasting So be it The state and condition of a regenerate man by the rule of holy scripture compared with the state of a regenerat man by the doctrine of HN. in the Familye of Loue. I Being in my creation at the first in most excellent state and happines hauing by diuine prouideÌ„ce in my selfe frée choyse will to choose the good and refuse the euill described by fire and water I willingly and of mine owne accord gaue place to euill and so worthely by iustice brought vpon my selfe the heauy hand of my God and the dexteritye of his law â–ª with maledirioÌ„ cursse where in â— had remained euerlastingly had not the Lord my God in mercy and of his speciall grace beholding my woeâ—â—â—l â—ase without any desert of mine prouided and promised a deliuerer a Sauiour eueÌ„ the Lord Iesus which in â—ulnes of time came whome the Patriarches hoped after whome the Prophets foretold of which died for my sinnes and rose agayne for my iustification who put out the hand writing of the law pronounced agaynst me â—astened it to his crosse who suffered for me y I might raigne with him who left me an example that I should â—ollow his steppes And which is more without coÌ„dition promisâ—d me eternall lyfe which by the onely sacrifice of his death he hath obtayned and by his paynefull
passion hath purchased freely for me and all others whome he chose before all worldes to be heyres and sonnes of the same inheritaunce by adoption and grace which promise or assuraÌ„ce I holde â—â—rmely by fayth Notwithstanding this his louing kindenes and mercy shewed towardes me if the Lord my God did not sâ—ill protect me guide me and deâ—end me I should anihilat and make voyd this mine estate or assurauÌ„ce therfore hath he geuen vnto me the participatioÌ„ of his holy spirite renewing me working in me regeneration which is a detestation lothing and hate of sinne and a minde will to serue the lord Yet so as there is a kinde of rebellion in me So that the good thinges I would doe I doe not but the euill I hate that doe I yet not I but sin that dwelleth in me I feele my flesh lusting agaynst the spirite and the spirite agaynst the flesh continually so that I cannot doe the same thinges I would â–ª I fele the law of my members striuing and rebelling agaynst the law of my minde And further to make my state and condition more throughly knowen I feele often tymes sinne and the mostons thereof so strong in me that I am for a season led captiue therewith yea without remorse so that the spirite semeth in me vtterly quenched or as â—ire raked vnder ashes that is not seene and sometime I wallow and for a season as it were forget my God notwithstanding this my backslyding I feele agayne the goodnes of my God and the working of hys spirite renewing me agayne then in sorrowfulnes and teares I bewaile my selfe in prayer y I haue so long estraunged my self offended my God then doe I féele the coÌ„fort of his spirite which bringeth to my remeÌ„braunce the promises of the Lord pronounced in his word videliz Though thy sinnes were as redde as scarelet yet will I make them as white as woole looke how far the heaueÌ„ is from the earth so farre haue I set thy sinnes froÌ„ thee Lyke as a Father hath compassioÌ„ on his children euen so the Lord will shew mercy on me for he dealeth not with vs after our sinnes noâ— rewardeth vs after our iniquityes â–ª All the day long he standeth with stretched out armes ready to receaue those that turne vnto him c. Then when I feele this the Lord my God comforting me by his promises I am driuen by the working of the same his holy spirite to be partaker of the holy sacrament of his death which is to me a seale and pledge cognizaunce of my redemption which to my great comfort I receaue as a token of his loue and kindenes shewed to me and so more and more I feele sinne and Sathan weaker and by resisting him dayly I finde him and his baytes Idle my fleshe and â—he aâ—lurementes of the world lesse able to hurt me or to preuaile agaynst me And â— feele in my selâ—â— through the working of the same spirite a redynes to all good exercises of pietie as hearinâ— of the word Prayer Aâ—stinence Charitie towards Christes members Loue Peace Ioâ— c. But yet still I féel finne with her motions neuer ceâ—sing a fresh to assay me and try me with new assaults and sifting me euery way againe and agayne charging me ofteÌ„ with the dexterity of the law with the greatnes of my sinnes laying them particularly before me with great horror preparing such bookes and baites for me that if I were not preserued by the great goodnes of my God I should vtterly dispaire and fal away but the Lord doth comfort me still saying My grace is sufficient for thee My grace is made strong through thy weaknes Be of good cheare I haue ouercome the world In such case I am and such is my battaile continually and alwaies fighting this vnder my graund captayne I preuayle and am not vaÌ„quished nor vtterly ouercomed yet agayne I prepare for a newe skirmish place my selfe in y formost raÌ„k to abyde the brunt of the next incouÌ„ter so that I neuer looke for any rest nor peace whilst I am in this vale of misery for my lyfe is a coÌ„tinuall warfare Yet in this exercise or continuall skirmish I am at peace in minde and conscience knowing and firmely beleeuing that my redeemer liueth who hath trod the wine presse alone and hath offered me the cup of Saluation and sealed in my hart the pledge of hyâ— loue so that with confidence and boldnes I haue accesse vnto my God and by the mediation of my Lord and Sauiour Christ I obtaine what soeuer is necessary or behouâ—full for me for I beyng thus knit vnto my God do boldly make my prayers vnto hym yet in tremâ—ling and feare I acknowledge my offences say O Lord my God I dayly confesse mine offences my sins are euer before me Enter not into IudgemeÌ„t with thy seruaunt for no flesh is righteous in thy sight â—f thou O Lorde obserueâ—t myne iniquities who is able â—o abide it For thy holy name sake O Lord be mercifull vnto myne iniquitie for it is greaâ— Remember not the faults of my youth Shew vnto me thy mercy and graunt me thy salvatioÌ„ Thus dayly and nightly I bewaile my misery confesse my â—â—nnes vnto the Lord my God and acknowledge that â—f the Lord should conâ—ond with me in iustice I were not able to answere For what is man that he should be cleane or he that is borne of a woman that he should be iust For he founde no stedâ—astnes in his saints yea the heauens are not cleane in his sight How much more man which is abhominable and filthy and drinketh iniquitie like water Whose very righteousnes is like a cloth defiled with the vnâ—â—mely bâ—â—th of a woman Thus considering my state and condition I rest quâ—et in mind and by faith in the sonne of God Christ Iesus I dout nothing of my saluation but accept gladly the battaile warfare I haue with sinne and SathaÌ„ continually as tokens of his great mercy and plâ—dges of his loue in fâ—eling the redy help and speedy deliuery of y lord who in time to me vnknowen will visite mine offences in this life with whips and my sinnâ—s with scourges but his mercy he wilâ— neuer take from me And thus being chosen callâ—d and prepared he sanctifieth me by death maketh a waâ— and entrance vnto an happy life where I shall behold that ioyfull sight euen the Lamb that was 〈◊〉 for me And shall follow him whâ—resoeâ—er he goeth Singing praise and thankes to him for euer and euer Amen The state and condition of a Regeneraâ—â— man afâ—er the doctrine and â—eaching of HN. in the pretended â—amily of Loue. BEloued in the beginning when God made all things well then was â—he Lord one Lord of his kingdoâ—e and one God of his workes There was also no more but one
now he beginneth to be knowen and by the great credit and admiration you haue him in the more detestable will he be reputed as a seducer of such men as cannot content themselues wiâ—h such trueth as the scriptures containe but must haue a Prophét raysed vp out of FlauÌ„ders a banished man and one that dare not shew his face in any countrey openly and you had rather imbrace his noueltyes then the wholsome doctrine conteyned in the olde and new testament Vitell. NOw concerning his bookes they be of such Aucthoritye as he affirmeth them but where as you say that he sayth all is false and lyes whatsoeuer is taught c. marke wel what he writeth and adde nothing thereto and it shall be found true what he writeth more where as you say he commendeth the Pope and Cardenalls with the Masse and other ceremonyes there is none commended but in their right order if you marke the matter well Answere HIs bookes I affirmed that they were in crâ—dite amongest the familye of equall auâ—horitye with the scriptures and that they were written with the same spirite to this you auÌ„swere that they are of such aucthoritye as he hath affirmed thereforâ— note well what you say for neuer any since the Apostles tunes had so impudent a face as openly to publish such a detestable lye if this come not from the spirite of pride I know no proud bosting spirites all the Fathers in the primitiue Church euer reuerenced the holy scripture and submitted all their bookes thereunto Austen desired not to be credited or beleued but as his workes might agree with the holy scriptures all men in generall haue euer acknowledged themselues in their writinges to be subiect to error onely the scripture to be without blemish but this man will haue HN. and his bookes of equall aucthoritye with the scriptures written with the same spirite thus doe you runne from one impietye to an other and in the highest degree of blasphemye But I pray you looke vpon the matter better before you say he is a prophet now his bookes are of equal aucthoritye with the scripture whether will you lift vp your HN. aboue all condition of fraile man the higher he is exalted the more greuous will be his fall without repentaunce it is Luciferian pride thus to attribute vnto mortall man but you make HN to be a name of office and not of a creature such misteryes requireth falced where trueth and simplicitye imbraceth playne dealing Now you say that HN. doth auouch all to be false whatsoeuer is taught by any other therefore heare his owne wordes and then discerne and sée God his trueth and his godly and heauenly workes are vnknowen vnto all fleshe and vnto all fleshly and earthly men but it is geuen to the children of the kingdome the comminaltye of the Loue to vnderstand the secret misteryes thereof You say it will be found true what he writeth If none but the comminaltye or Familye of Loue doe vnderstaÌ„d the scripture then it was not rightly vnderstode before there was any mention of your Familye Now for commendatioÌ„ of the Pope Cardinals and Masse he sayth hee commendeth none buâ— in his right order this speach is ambigâ—us in his right order For simply I thinke none of them haue any shaddow of right order neither is their callinges nor doctrine grounded vpon either right or good order Your Author belyke alloweth the Masse or els he would not haue taken such paynes as to explicat euery ceremonye therein in his booke called A declaratioÌ„ of the Masse but thus with subtiltye of speach you would faine say somewhat to defend your Author be his sayinges neuer so monstrous Vitell. FOr in that booke named a ioyfull message of the kingdome of God Christ though ye deâ—idingly call it his gospell is declared that â—Papa signifieth an olde Father in the holy vndeâ—standing Now althogh he be not indued with the holy vnderstaÌ„ding yet is the name not the worse in it selfe For the Lord hath ordeined gouernours spirituall and temporall and they represent the maiestye of God although now certayne gouernours gouerne not according to the rule of righteousnes yet is not therefore the name euerthelesâ—e of reputation because it is an ordenance of God therefore let vs despise no name that belongeth to gouernours neither yet also any gouernour nor any man els for we haue all sinned haue neede of the grace or mercy of the Lord. Answere THe booke in lattin is called EuaÌ„gelium Regnâ— gospell of the kingdome but this man is the translator thereof and hath qualified it calling it a ioyfull message of the kingdome the title is arrogant and presumptuous the doctrine therein worse as will appere in print ere it be long the pope hath found among manâ— enemies one freÌ„d although his doctrine is spokeÌ„ against euery where yet this maÌ„ would gladly képe and retayne his bare name belonging to a gouernour in office we coÌ„deme not the name his doctrine not agrâ—â—ing with the word is by the same word condemned so is yours For significations of names â–ª wâ—e will not contend a part of your deuinity lyeth therein neither do wee despise any name but is euell doctrine be shadowed or vnder any name cloked then wee inuey agaynst the doctrine vsing the name as wheÌ„ inuectiues are made agaynst the Pope or HN. it is not ment of the persons but of the doctrine And surely the Pope did neuer exercise so great a Popedome in the West Church as your HN. a new Pope doth among you of his Familye and as the papistes which tooth and nayle seeke to maintayne euery absurd and senceles part of the popes doctrine with all their power witte and skill EueÌ„ so do ye of his Family maintayne your Nâ— and whatsoeuer vnsauery doctrine he teacheth it maâ— not be discredited nor he cannot therein erre or misse the right in such reputation haue you placed mortall man. You say we all haue sinned haue need of y grace or mercy of the Lord y all haue sinned you truely confes but that all doe dayely sinne you cannot beleue especially you the â—â—ders of the holy vnderstandinâ— but in humilitye of spirite you and wee ought to coÌ„fesse not onely that we haue sinned but dayely and hourely do sinne and haue neede not onely of his grace but his mercy also although you speake of grace or mercy but wee craue his grace and mercy his grace to guide vs and his mercy to deliuer vs. Vitell. MOreouâ—r you are greatly offended because hee sayeth that none shold take iâ— haÌ„d to teach or preach but the illuminate elders whiâ—h arâ— Godded with God or incoâ—poâ—atâ—d to God and with whom also God in one being and power of his spirite is hominisied or become man And those you call proud speaches and because â—N vseth them ye despise him althoughe they be no strange words or speches in thâ— dutâ—h language â–ª therfore in so doing you despiâ—e the
Lord. Answere I Am offended in zeale of Gods 〈◊〉 agaynst your generall doctrine wheâ—of this is a part that none may teach the truth but y illuminat â—lders Your HN. further sayth Therefore it is assuredly all false and lyes seducing and deâ—eitfull what the vngodded or vnilluminate men out of the imagination or riches of theire own knowledge out â—f their learnednes of the scriptures bâ—ing forth institute prâ—ach and teaâ—h c. Now looke wel and behold whether HN. condemne not all others but his illumined Elders who are Godded with God c. which in dâ—ede I haue rightly tearmeâ— proud speaches such as neuer any godly wryter in Christ his church durst euer speake or write â—ou would colour the wordes by the ducth tongue saying they be not straÌ„ge speches in that language but certainly a strange and monsterous doctrine is therby taught and far disagreeing from the written word and far â—nbeseeming any Christian. And here if I should dilate what a meaning you haue in these wordes Godded with God I should increase this treatise ouer much yet I will somewhat touch it as you and your Author haue expressed it in wryting I will vse your own speach as followeth See and marke my beloued in the beginning when God had made all things well thâ— was the Lord one Lord of his kingdome and one God of his worke and there was also no more but one God and one man and they were one â–ª and had in all one ordeâ— beinâ— â–ª â—nd nature For God was all that the man was and the mâ— was all that God wâ—â— Thus monstrously and blasphemously you haue taught god and man to be one in nature now compare this godhead with God or incorporated to God and easily it is perceiued that you meane God and man to be one this were worthye to be buryed in silence but that now the patrons defeÌ„d such blasphemies it is tyme to cleare the Church of Christ that such proude and Luciferian voyces shoulde not bee heard or once named yet this man will proue that HN. cannot erre and none that know the truth can condeÌ„ne HN. It is a pitiful thing that men hauing anye sence or feeling of God or godlines should so vaynely wryte or publish to y world such absurd horrible doctrine neuer heard of before and yet the Aucthor must needes be a prophet and his doctrine to proceede from the Lord nowe in despising thys and the like proud speach of HN of necessitie I am counted to despise y Lord thus still you drawe HN. hys matters that who so speaketh or wryteth agaynst hym be wryteth and speaketh agaynst God whether will you exalt your Auâ—thor ye vnbeleuers surely aboue all that is called God but wyth your father you will be cast headlong so low where to late you may bewaâ—l your contempt of God and godlinesse looke in tyme to this and the like part of your doctrine oh ye Ipocrites Vitell. FOr asmuch as the Lord hath seen it for good to bryng foorth hys most holy seruice of loue in the duch language although it seeme grosse and barbarous to you so shall it from henceforth be counted a language amoÌ„g those languages wherin the Lord hath erected his law and the priestes office thereof and the seruice of the beliefe with hys priests office Like maner shall the most holy seruice of loue be brought foorth through the Lorde hys elected minister HN. with his priests office where through the Lorde will receaue all men in mercy whiche humble them vnto hys word of grace according to the requiring of hys lawe and ordinaunces be erected and remayne from generation to generation for euermore for loue peace and righteousnesse shall remayne in eueâ—lalastingnes Aunswere THe Dutch language must nowe be accounted amongst those learned tongues wherein the law and gospell were written and this he auoucheth the Lord hath seene it for good that it shal be euen so you now take your authors office in hande For you Prophesye that from hencefourth this shall come to pas the law the seruice of the beliefe and the Priestes office must be brought forth in y Dutch Language I cannot but say notwithstanding your false Prophesye that the Dutch Language you vse especially in such straunge inuented wordes and confused compositioÌ„ is barbarous sith that â—â—rtayne other of your bookes that haue learned to speake latine a toung by nature propriety plaine copious and eloquent are also new fangled in name and barbarous in phrase of purpose to be blasphemous in doctrine which you nor any of your Familyâ— haue as yet as I thinke translated they want a certayn father and therefore haue no certayn names but borrowed as Theologica Germanica Augustinus Elutherius c. Their new deuised latin wordes are such as Aegoitas Ipsietas c. Their doctrine is that Adam is nothing els but vetus homo and Christus is nothing els but Nouus homo The history of Christ his birth hys miracles passion death resurrection c. they regard not but allegor is vppon euery part thereof most daungerously and vngodly teachingâ— vncertayne significations without coÌ„â—ort making no accompt of the history Confidently to beleue the truth of the history they say is to abide in the letter which killeth Those bookes contaynâ— playne doctrine which the Libertynes hold and also the doctrine of perfection whiche you hold to be in this life â–ª but especially this principle that when this perfection whiche you dreame of is come to the man then is he illuminate and deiffied and God in him hominified so that in all his actions wordes and thoughtes he can no more coÌ„mit sinne or anye euill then God or Christ can commit sinne or euill the reason is rendred because God or Christ dwelleth in the man and hath thâ— gouernment of all hys actions thoughtes c. And when ye are pressed in conference to shewe that man thus hauing Christ dwelling in him if he at any tyme doe bring foorth any euill that in resemblaunce maâ— appeare as sinnes they are not so to beâ— accompted of say you because Christ dwelleth in the man which doctrine is wicked false and diuelish as I haue often tolde your fellowes in other places Christ dwelleth in vs by the participation of his holye spirite and guydeth our actions els should wee haue no strength to resiste sathan or flesh nor the intisements of the world but taketh not away thereby our humayne imperfections but he keepeth lustes and all wickednes that they raigne not ouer vs or rule in vs or haue dominion ouer vs yet wee ceasse not to be sinners or commit sinne that is your owne doctrine but hath no foundation or warrant in the worde Other bookes also are of such lyke name and doctrine as Elidad and Fidelitas whereof I fearâ— me that you were the traÌ„slator The doctrin wherof I meane not to touch in this place onely this is to be noted that the parties