my Sorrow for you to see you who are so mighty a Champian as you boast your selfe to be to reason so shallowly and ungroundedly for if your Argument be true then all the Nations under Heaven are true visible Churches of Christ for it is not possible that the Heathenest Nation in the World should runne out of Gods Voyce and Call Psal 139.7.8.9 For saith Dauid If I ascend up into Heaven thou art there if I make my Bed in Hell behold thou art there if I take the Wings of the Morning and dwell in the uttermost part of the Sea even there shall thy hand lead me and thy right hand shall hold me if I say surely the darknes shall cover me even the night shall be light about me yea the darknes hideth not from thee but the night shineth as the day the darknes and the light are both alike to thee And also see Amos. 9.1.2.3 Where you may also read that no place can hide a people from Gods presence or call so that I say no place can exempt a people from Gods voyce but wheresoever they are he can find them out and by his Judgements laid upon a Nation or Peeple whether they be Pagans Heathens and Infidels that professedly serve and worship Idols and nothing else or whether they be a Nation of seeming Christians as England is no more like the Samaritanes that professe the Worship of the true God and yet serve their Idols 2. King 17.32.33 yet take them in which sence you will I say they are within the Voyce and call of God and by his Judgements and Plagues laid upon them for their sinnes he calls them to Repentance that so they might not perish but be saved as the Apostle Paull in the first of the Romans doth largly prove Vers 18.19 and so forward So that by your Argment all the Nations under Heaven are visible Churches of Christ for I thus frame my Argument according to your owne grounds All the Nations of the Earth that are within the Voyce and call of God calling them to Faith and Repentance that so they may be saved are true Churches But all the Pagan and Heathen Notions in the World are within the Voyce and call of God as I have already proved Ergo. They are true visible Churches Deny any part of the Argument if you can and prove against it But for the proofe of your Argument you cite Math. 20.16 where it is said Many are called but few chosen the first part of the words Many are called you say but doe not prove that we are to understand them of the visible Church which are called to the outward preaching of the word to which I answere and say you are not an Oracle of God that we must beleeve your sayings without ground for you bring no proofe for what you say but your owne bare Affirmations but if you will be an Oraclo it is but a lying Oracle and not of Gods you say they are called to the outward preaching of the Word it seemes to me that you will have all the people in a Nation that are within Gods call to be Preachers and then what shall become of all your Preists for if this be not your meaning I know not what you drive at but for that place of Scripture many are called but few are chosen I understand it thus many there was that heard the Word of God and seemingly professed it as they that came to Johns Baptisme and Herod that reformed many things and those many great multitudes that Christ preached unto many of which made an outward profession of him for a time but it was but for the loaves as he himselfe doth witnesse John 6.26.27 so here are many called to the outward profession of the Gospell but saith the Text few are chosen that is to say ehough there be many that make a formall profession of Christ and have the ouiside of Christianity yet few are they that are chosen either to Christs glorious kingdome with his father or are chosen and admitted as visible members and Subjects in his visible Church or Kingdome which in Scripture hath many and divers names as Syon Jerusalem his holy Mountaine the Lords holy place the kingdome of Heaven Psal 54.7.147.12 Fsa 62.6.65.9.11 Psal 68.17.33.46.4 Mat. 20.1 Rev. 21.1.10 this exposition of the place I plainly prove from Christs preaching to so many as he did the most of which for a time did outwardly prosesse him yet all those great multitudes that he preached unto and wrought Miracles amongst at his death there was but an hundred and twenty that entered into communion to worship him in a visible Church Acts 1.15 and in the second of the Acts Peter preached to a great multitude of people yet that multitude were not members of a true visible Church neither before he preached to them nor after but only so many of them as declared and manifested faith which were to the Number of three Thowsand and they were added or joyned to the Church and the Apostle commands them to save or seperate themselves from the rest of the multitude which he preached unto seing they did not peleeve nor were never the better for his preaching saying Save your selves from thes untoward Generatron Vers 40.41 For the Lord would not have them to joyne Riffe Raffe and all sorts of people to the Church to whom the Word was preached but only those that declared the worke of Grace to be wrought in their hearts therefore the Spirit of God saith The Lord added to the Church daily such as should be saved Now though I grant the Kingdome of England is within the Voyce and call of God calling the people thereof to Repentance that so they may be saved yet I grant no more then what all the Nations under Heaven are therefore you cannot conclude from this Ground that the Church of England is a true Church of Christ seing the Whol Nation good or bad wicked or righteous godly or ungodly have all one and the same Priviledge by virtue of their being professed Membees of your Ch. therefore from that which hath been said I frame this Argument That the true visible Church of Christ under the Gospell doeth not consist of all sorts and kinds of people to whom the word of God is preached but only to such persons who by their outward Conversation may be judged to be true Beleevers Esay 4.3.35.8.9.10.51.11 Rom. 1.7 1. Cor. 1.7 Rev. 22.14 But the Church of England is not made up nor doeth not consist of true Beleevers that is to say Saints by calling and practice but of all sorts and kinds of wicked persons as Witches Sorcerers Whoremungers Drunkards Idolaters Swearers Blasphemers all sorts of Prophane Lewd Wicked livers Ergo It is no true Church of Christ but a false and Antichristian Church of Antichrists 2. Cor. 6.9.10 Rev. 9.20.21 and 13.8.16.17 and 21.27 and 22.15 Both the Proposition and Assumption I have already strongly proved
AN ANSWER TO NINE ARGUMENTS Written by T. B. WHEREIN IS PLAINLY FROM THE SCRIPTURES shewed the weakenesse of his Arguments whereby he undertakes to prove both the Church and Ministery of England true as likewise describing the nature and properties of a true Church and Ministery Written long since by that faithfull Servant of God and his Countrey John Lilburne Leiftenant Collonell And now published for further good by a well willer to Him and the Truth Gal. 4.17 They zealously affect you but not well they would exclude you that you might affect them 1 John 4.1 Beloved beleive not every Spirit but try the Spirits whether they be of God because many false Prophets are gon out into the world LONDON Printed in the Yeare of our Lord 1645. IOHN LILBURNE AETAT SVAE 23. An o 1641. G Glo fecit Gaze not vpon this shaddow that is vaine But rather raise thy thoughts a higher straine To GOD I meane who set this young-man free And in like straits can eke deliuer thee To the Reader Christian Reader THe providence of God bringing to my hands this ensuing Matter the Author of which thou well knowest if thou beest not a stranger in Israel is famous in Sufferings both for the cause of Christ in holding him forth to be the only King and Lawgiver of his Church against that Prelaticall faction which stood in opposition to the same as likewise in standing to defend the priviledges of the Kingdom whereof he is a member with his liberty estate and life as counting nothing dear to himselfe that he might render himselfe faithfull to Christ in giving to him that which was his due and unblameable to Caesar to give unto him that which is his resolving by the strength of Christ that although others that have seemed to suffer for Christ should deny him and plead for Baal yet to stand in his integrity my selfe knowing him to be the same that he was standing a member of such a Church which he maintaines to be the only spouse of Jesus Christ I thought good to publish to thy vow that which long since was written by him to that end when he was in the depth of his sorrowes or rather sufferings close prisoner in Irons in the Fleet is being an Answer to some Arguments which by an Opposite to the truth were then written wherein is unmasked those unsound grounds by which a false church and ministery is pleaded for as likewise describing from the Authority of the Scriptures the nature and properties both of true church and ministery And if it should be Objected by any that what is here published is not usefull to us the Prelats being now thrown down and a Reformation like to be established agreable to the Word of God To which Answer may be made that if it were so surely it would put an end to all contest of this nature For what is that Reformation the Word holds out but only the men should not Lord it over each others consciences but to serve each other in love and labour in the use of those meanes God hath appoynted to informe one an other as knowing it is the worke of the Lord Jesus alone as to bring Soules to himselfe so also to enlighten Soules in the knowledge of the truth as it pleaseth him and not men by banishments Chaines or imprisonments to doe it as the Prelates have done and the Presbyters in Scotland at this day doe But such a Reformation except God by a mighty hand interpose is like to be no other then a scourge to the States and as contrary to truth in the pure nature of it as the other although it have wore appearance of truth which will he plainly manifested to those whose eyes the Lord shall open to helpe to see and ezamine what in this ensuing Discourse is said there be two great evils which frequently are apt to beare-sway in the hearts of those that professe Religion which is spirituall sluggishnes which is manifested in living vpon other mens light takeing all for Gospell which Learned men say without tryall witnesse Mr. Enoch Gray who hath forsaken the truth to embace this present world and that great God of the World selfe love that cup of gold in the hand of the whore is so sutable to selfe that rather then that shall be for gon all the glory of Jesus Christ shall be trampled under feet by them And in my observaâ—ion I have perceived three sorts of men glued to those evils The first is carnall Professours that can content themselves with a forme of godlines and therefore takes all for gould that glisters The other two are Clergie men and Lawyers who are filled with selfe love that like Herod and Pilate they both joyne together against Christ and his pure wayes and what should be the reason that those two should cleave so fast together to goe hand in hand to fight against Christ truly I know not unlesse they feare that if the truth of Christ take place alone that it will bring such a luster with it as to appeare so perspicuous and cleare upon the faces of all men as thereby to roote the one out of their Calling and the other out of their Tythes and thereby spoyle all their glory and greatnes at one blow and I hope the wisedome of this present Parliament will see that such as that which now goeth by oppression into their purses may be turned to make vp the Kingdomes losses which may with much ease be done if they consult with God and their neighbour Countrey the Sates of Holland but I shall leave that to their wisedomes and thee in thee perusall of this to the blessing of the most High and if there be any thing in it that savours of harshnes to thee let it be looked at by thee as expressions of Resolution rather knowing that such a spirit hath been still manifest by him both in the cause of God and his Countrey And therefore I shall say no more but rest Thine in all services of love to his power M. N. AN ANSWEARE TO NINE ARGUMENTS of T. B. LOVING FRIEND TO satisfie your earnest desire to me I have put pen to paper to answeare the ungrounded Arguments of your Friend which you communicated unto me but to tell you my Judgment of them in few words They are of such Insufficiency and so ungroundedly compiled without all Authority of holy Scripture that I doe assure you if it had not been my promise to you to reply unto them I should not once more have spent my precious Time and Paines in a second view of them For in the laying downe of nine Arguments he hath not one Portion of Gods word to prove them all but only one and that is nothing pertinent to his purpose but runnes on most deceitfully to prove Logicke by Logicke Truly I am affraid he is too neer of kinne to the Prelate of Canterbury and Pope of Lambeth and the rest of his brother Bishops
by the Authority of the Scripture and deny either of them and prove against them if you be able Againe your second Argument to prove the Church of England a true Church is this That Ministry which doeth accomplish the same and which the Ministry of the Apostles did must needs be a true Ministry But the Ministry of the Church of England doeth accomplish the same ends that the Apostles Ministry did namely conversion and confirmation Therefore the Ministry of the Church of England must needes be true But to prove your Argument you bring not one Place of Scripture but take that for granted which I confidently thinke neither you nor none in the Ch. of Engl. are ever able to prove therefore I absolutely in every respect deny your Arg. two manner of waies prove against it 1. I will prove that if the Ministry in the Ch. of Engl. did accomplish the same ends that the Ministry of the Apostles did yet for all that that is not sufficient to prove it a true Ministry for to judge the cause by the effect is a Leaden and false Rule 2. I will prove that the Ministry in Engl. doth not accomplish the same ends that the Ministry of the Apostls did therfore by your own Arg. is no true Ministry Now for the first of these which answers the Major of your Arg. I say it hath beene and still may be possible for a man to accomplish the same ends that you here speake of namely to be an Instrument to bring Gods people to the manifestation of Faith also to build them up yet be no true Officer or Minister in the Ch. of God I prove it out of the Acts of the Apostles in which we read that when the Ch. began to encrease Saul raised a great persecution against it upon which all the brethren viz. the members of the Ch. were scattered abroad they went up down preaching the word Act 8.3 but the Apostles themselves they stayed still at Jerusalem Vers 1. Now all those that were scatterd abroad were not true Officiall Ministers for they were but Lay-men according to your distinction in the Church of England yet divers of them who were no true Officers but Bretheren Disciples or private men as you call them yet they preached the Word to the Gentiles there begot by their preaching maany of them to the Faith for the Text saith The hand of the Lord was with them and a great number of them beleeved and then came Barnabas from Jeausalem who was yet no true Officer in the Church of God being as yet uncalled to his Apostleship and he confirmed and strengthened and more fully built them up in the Faith of Christ and in the Knowledge of the wayes of God Also Aquilah and his wife Priscilla did further instruct and build up that Eloquent man Apollos Act. 18.26 Also there were certaine women that laboured with Paull in the Gospell Phil. 4.3 So that here you see and I have proved it that people may be called to the manifesttaion of Eaith and further built up by those that are no true Officers or Ministers in the Church of Chirst but if your Argument were true then it would follow that all those men yea and the women too were true Officers and Ministers in the Church of Christ because they were Instruments of bringing Gods people to the manifestation of Faith and further built them up but your Argument is rotten and unsound and falls here flat to the ground and therefore if I should grant it which I doe not that your Ministers by their Ministry did accomplish the same ends that the Apostles by their Ministry did yet this would not be sufficient to prove them true Officers or Ministers for the excecution of an Office doeth not prove an Officer but only a true and lawfull call into the Office which all your Priests and Minnisters in England want and therefore are no true Officers nor no true Ministers of Jesus Christ For you know that a King hath many in his Kingdome besides himselfe that doe those actions administer those administrations that is peculiar to him alone to doe and administer unlesse they were Authorized by virtue of a power given and derived from him to do such actions without a lawfull Authority given and received from him they might loose their lives for the doing of them but now if your Argument were true that all those men that are meanes or Instrumensts to bring Gods People to the manifestation of Faith and obedience to the Law and will of Christ were true Officers and Ministers of Christ it would follow by the same Argument that all those men that doe the actions of a King or accomplish the same ends that Kings by their actions doe accomplish are true Kings but so to conclude in England is little better then High Treason Therefore your Argument is erroneous and false and hath not validity in it for if so be you will have their Administrations to prove the lawfulnesse of their Office then I pray you wherein doth the execution of their Office consist for an Office and the execution of it are two distinct things for a man by virtue of being instated into the Office of a Judge though he never live to execute any of those acttions or Administrations that belong to his place or Office but he must first receive power to sit in Court of Judicature before he dare take upon to fit there as Judge and when he hath receiced power from the King by virtue of which he is instated into his Office and doth become an Officer then doth he lawfully sit in Court of Judicature and condemneth fellons and guilty persons and acquit the innocent and doth there passe sentence according to the Lawes for the King under whom he is a Judge But now if this Judge should usurpe his place and come into it by virtue of a false Authority and then condemne the Kings Subjects to death though they be theives and malefactors yet he would be in danger of loosing his life for all that though he doe the act and actions that belong to a true Judge to doe because he had no lawfull Authority from the King so to doe for it is the Kings Authority placed upon a man that doth make that person to be an other kind of person then before he was for before he had received this power he was but a private man but now he is an other kind of man namely a a publike person in Office and Authority and may lawfully do those actions now which if he should have done before would have cost him his life Even so is it with the Ministers and Officers which Jesus Christ hath instituted in his New Testament and left personally to officiate in his Church they must be members of an incorporated or constituted City body or visible Church and then if the Church find any amongst themselves fitted or qualified according
of England Antichristian And when you or any other doe by the Authority of the unerring and pure Word of God sufficiently confute what I have writ against it I doe promise you I will be a member of the Church of England againe but if that be not done I will by the strength of the Lord of Hosts for ever separate from Church Ministery and worship in England as all and every one of them Antichristean and false yet thus much I say and doe acknowledge and the Scripture proves it that God hath a people or an elect number in spirituall Babylon yea in the Kingdome of Antichrist part of which the ch of England is and none of them shall perish but â—e eternally saved yet I say it is the duty of all Gods Elect chosen ones that as yet in the whorish â—osâ—… of the ch of Engl. or in any part of Antichrists regiment iâ— separate away from it and come out of it least God plague them for their staying there 〈…〉 and 〈◊〉 forward 51.6.9.11 2 Cor. 6.16.17 Rev. 14.9.10 18.4 Now from all that which hath been said I frame these Arguments First that every lawfull Pastor Bishop Minister or Officer in the visible Church of Christ ought to have a lawfull call and be lawfully chosen into his Office before he can be a true Officer in the Church of Christ Acts 1.24.25 26. 24.23 Gal. c 11. Heb. 5.4 But the Ministers and Officers in the Church of England have not a lawfull call neither are lawfully chosen to be Officers in the Church of Christ see the Booke of Ordination of Bishops Preists and Deacons compared with the Scripture Therefore all your Ministers are false and Antichristian Officers Rev. 9.3 2. Secondly The doing of those actions that belong to the execution of an office doth not prove a man to be a lawfull officer but a lawfull power instating him into his office Acts 8.4 11.28.24 18.24.26 But all the Ministers in the church of England have nothing to prove the lawfulnes of their standing in their Ministery but the actions of a Minister and are not able to prove that they are instated into their Ministery by vertue of a lawfull power and authority Therefore they are not true Ministers of Christ but false and Antichristian Ministers of Antichrist 3. Againe in the third place upon your own grounds I frame this Argument Those that by their Ministery doe not accomplish the same ends that the Ministery of the Apostles did are no true ministers But the ministers of the church of England doe not accomplish the same ends by their ministery that the ministery of the Apostles did 1 Cor. 12.2 Therefore your ministers are no true ministers So you see I have overthrown your second Argument and that in your own way and deny that which I have said and prove against it if you be able 3. Againe your 3. Arg. to prove your scratched and deformed mother a true visible church is this Whatsoever people doe enjoy outwardly submit themselves to the true worship of God they are a true visible ch of Christ But the people of Eng. dâ—e outwardly enjoy and submit themselves to the true worship of God Ergo the people of England are a true visible Church Answ 3. And for the proofe of your Arg. you say that the Separation grant and teach the proposition but the assupmtion they stifly deny as well they may do but you will stifly maintaine and prove it to their shame But first of all I will prove your Arg. false to your shame and then I will examine your proofe of it Therefore I deny your proposition assumption and conclusion And first you say the Separation teach where there is true worship there is a true Church what they teach I doe not very well know for I never heard any of their Sermons but only one neither have I read but very few either of their Books or writings but yet I say your Major is not found for true worship doth not prove a company of people to be a true visible church of Christ for they must be a true visible church before they tender and offer up any publike worship to him therefore true worship doth not provâ— a true church but rather a true church proves true worship for the cause must ever goe before the effect which it produceth but a true Church produceth true worship and not true worship a true Church Now to the makeing of a true Church there must not only be true matter but also a true forme 1 Cor. 15.13 Col. 2.5 or an entrance into that heavenly state or spirituall city called the New Jerusalem which comes downe from heaven and which is in the last end described in the Word of God and so becoming a politike Kingdome or Body that makes them a true church or an vniting joyning or combining of a company of Beleivers together amongst themselves and so unto Christ their only and alone head and King promising perfect obedience to all his Lawes and to walke in all his wayes that gives them the denomination of a true visible church of Christ by virtue of which they come to have Christs power to execute all the Lawes that Jesus Christ hath left and bequeathed in his last will to his welbeloved Spouse and to administer all his administrations which out of this state cannot lawfully be administred as I have already proved at large in my Answer to W. G. an eminent Professâ—… in your Church but yet an earnest pleader for Antichrists Kingdome and dominion as well as your selfe and therefore for this particular I referre you to that And as for your Minor and Assumption which is that you in the Church of England doe enjoy and outwardly submit your selves to the true worship of God It is most false and a notorious lie and untruth and as well might wicked Faux and the rest of the Gun-pouder plotters say that they submitted unto noble King James Lawes and Septer when they went about to blow up the Parliament House that so they might destroy him and all his for you doe not only oppose and justle out the true worship of God and throw downe and trample upon the Septer of Jesus Christ his Son but also you set up a false and Antichristian worship the inventer of which is the Divel and the man of Sin his eldest and most obedient Son Therefore I am ashamed to heare you who boast your selfe to be such a mighty champion as you â—ay you are having as I heare you have said that you have confuted many of the Separation to reason so shallowly and ungroundedly and against the knowne and confessed truth and therefore you are but like Goliah the Philistins great champion who exceedingly reviled as you doe the Hoast of the Lord and kept a mighty challinging of them as though none of Gods people had been able to encounter and graple with him when as poore David that yongue
made it manifest Well now to come to your fift Argument which is thus framed If the Church of Engl. have the true matter and forme of a true Church then it must needs be a true Ch. But the Ch. of Engl. hath the matter forme of a true Church Ergo. It is a true visible Church Ans 5. I Answer if it had the true matter forme of a true visible Church then ti were true indeed for these are both and only essentiall to the being of a true Ch. but I say you want them both But you for to prove it say that the matter of a true Ch. is a company of men and that you have and you say the Forme is a profession of true Religion truly you bewray the blindnes and ignorance of a man whse braines and understanding is infatuated and made drunke with the spirituall cup of fornication of the scarlat whore not in the least understanding what you say and affirme yet to answer your Arg. though I grant that where true matter and true forme is there is a true Church yet I absolutely deny that you have either true matter or true forme which you say you thinke none will deny so that the begging of things and takeing that for granted which I deny and which you are never able to prove is the best ground you have to prove your false Arg. true But now for the matter of a true Ch. you will have it to be a company of men making no distinction but let them be what kind soever they will serve it seemes to be true matter in your ch whether they be a company of men possessed with Divels and uncleane spirits from whose mouth Christ will owne no confession nor service but absolutely commands them to hold their peace and not to take his name in their mouthes to speake of him Mar. 1 s 25.34 oa whether they be Inchanters Sorcerers or diviners or wether they be whoremongers fornicatorss Idolaters adulterers drunkards swearers blaspheamers prophane persons lyars or those that commit the sin against the holy ghost so they be but men let them he what kind of men they will you say they are fit matter for a true church indeed I confesse they are the fittest matter for your church that you can have and your church is made up and doth consist of all such sorts kinds of wicked persons which doth evidently and undenyably prove it to be an Antich Ch. and one of the nationall Citties that is under the government of the Beast for he is said to compell all as you doe both rich and poor high low bond free to become his servants subjects and to worship him according to his lawes and whosoever will not shall not live neither in peace nor quietnes Rev. 13.15.16 and this is the practice of your Church daily and hourly for the most unfittest matter for your Churches are the Consciencious Saints that desire to glorifie God as well in their Bodys as in their Sâ—ules and to walke unblameably in all his waies and if there be any such among you they are cast out of your Synagogues by you and prohibited either to buy or sell with you though such as these alone be the only true and fit matter for the visible Church or Kingdome of Jesus Christ Esay 35.10 51.11 Jer. 4.5 Act. 1.14.15 2.41.47 11.21.23 Rom. 1.7 1 Cor. 1.2 1 Pet. 2.9 Rev. 22.14 For all uncleane wicked and ungodly persons of what sort soever are no fit matter to become members of Christs holy City new Jerusalem which is said to come downe from Heaven or visible Church for all such should and ought to be kept out from thence Act. 2.40 1 Cor. 5.13 6.9.10 Rev. 21.27 22.15 In the second place you say the proffession of true Religion is the forme of a true Church this you in England doe and have and therefore are a true Church For answer to which I say that I have already in the foregoing discourse fully proved that your Religion is not a true Religion but a false seing you worship and serve God not accoding to his Lawes and commands but with and according to your owne devises and Inventions but yet I doe confesse that yee doe professe like the Samaritane the worship of the true God but for all that with them you serve your Idols therefore by your owne grounds you have not the forme of a true Church wherefore by the same Ground it followes that you are not a true Church But now punctually to answer your Argument I affirme that thâ— forme of a true Church is for a company of beleevers who are washed in the blâ—od of Christ by a free and voluntary Consent or willingnesse to enter into that heavenly and holy State City or Kingdome which in the word of God is plentiuflly described and by the power of Christ to become a constituted or Polytique Body or Corporation or an inclosed or fenced Garden or Vinyard and then by virtue of their combination uniting joyning themselves together each to other so unto the Lord promising to walk in all his waies to yeild obedience to all his Lawes commands as he requires they should Gen. 17. 2 Cor. 6 17.18 they become a true visible Church of Jesus Christ Deut. 29.9.10.11 2 King 11.17 2 Cron. 15.12 Nehe. 10.29 Psal 110. 3. Jer. 50.4.5 Act. 23.24 so hath power from Christ her head to cast out offenders 1 Cor. 5. to chuse elect ordaine her own Officers Act. 6.3.5 14.23 they ordained them Elders in every Church by Election as the Originall and Beza's Translation with others read it though the word Election by the Bishops fraud and Pollicy be left out in our last English Translation and to receive in beleevers 2 Cor. 2.7.8 and to keepe out wicked persons Rev. 21.27 and 22.15 and to reprove and admonish her owne Officers Bishops or Overseers Col. 4.17 or doe her selfe any sprituall good or exclude from herselfe any evill shee feares or is like to come upon her without the helpe or assistance of any either church or officers besides her selfe Rev. 1.2.3 ch but the Ch. of Eng. neither hath or ever had this forme in the least as I have fully manifested elsewhere as also you may read in a litle Booke lately printed called the Three Estates that is to say the Civill State the rrue Ecclesiasticall Sate and the False Ecclsiasticall State and also you want the profession of the true Religion and therefore your Ch. is no true Ch. of Christ for it is vnited by profession subjection to the Pope of Lambeth who is substitute to the Pope of Rome whome Mason in his Epistle Dedicatory before his Booke of Ordination of Bishops Preists and Deacons cals the Head and cheife over the Ch. of Engl. for they in their publike Court of High Commission at the censure of that noble and worthy Dr. Bastwicke have renounced
the King as Head thereof and have placed it upon the Bishops of Canterbury as you may read at large in the 10. and 11. p. of his Answer to sir John Bankes if Canterbury be her Head as Mason and others affirme then sure I am that Christ is none of her head for his body is no monster to have two heads Therefore the Church of England is a whorish and Antichristian Church and none of Christs having nothing to doe with Jesus Christ nor any of his Lawes Worship Offices Ordinances or Administrations but in the next place you bring an Argument to prove the Religion in the Church of England to be true and you thus lay it downe That Religion which will lead men on into the true way of salvation that must needs be the true Religion But the Religion which we professe leads into the true way of salvation for men to looke for salvation in Gods free mercy in Jesus Christ Therefore say you your Argument must needs be true I answer that if it were granted which in the least I doe not that your Religion is true yet this alone were not sufficient to prove your Church true But I absolutely deny your Argument and affirme that your Religion neither is the true Religion nor that it leads men the true way to salvation for I have already proved it to be a false Religion and that it leads men the true way to Rebellion against God and his Son Jesus Christ But you will say how comes it to passe that some are saved which professe our Religion which you affirme to be false I answer in Moses words hidden things belongs to God but revealed things to us and our Children Devt 29.29 but yet when I seriously consider of it and with a deliberate eye looke into the holy Scripture the revealed will of God it makes me thinke say and cry out with Paul Rom. 11.33 O the depthes of the riches both of the wisedome and knowledge of God how unspeakeable are his judgments and his wayes past finding out who can save his People those elect ones even in the bosome of Antichrist his cursed Kingdome of darknesse contrary to all grounded reason that the wit of man is able to give or render from his revealed will but only must say it is alone his meer mercy and gratious and omnipotent pleasure so to doe who is tyed to no meanes place or person but can worke and bring to passe his owne ends and purposes without meanes yea and beyond all outward meanes 1 Kin. 19.10.17 Ezec. 57. for the holy one of Israel is not limited But to prove this Argument you lay downe an other after this manner If men professing the same way to salvation that we doe have lived and dyed in the profession of it and been saved then is the Religion and way to salvation that we professe a true Religion and way to salvation But men that professe our Religion have been saved Ergo it is true what childish reasoning is here to beg things after this manner and to judge the cause by the effect contrary to the whole currant of the Scripture for it doth largly shew that a bad and wicked cause or action may produce and bring forth a good and glorious effect and this is just as they said in Pauls time let us doe evill that good may come of it but saith he such mens damnation is just Rom. 3.8 and if you have read the Scripture which it appeares you have not very often you may know that the Midwives and Harlot Rahabs lying saved the Israelites children and the Spies lives Exod. 1. Josh 2. for which act of mercy they are commended in the Word of God and also it produced good effects to them for the Lord caused the Midwives to prosper and saved Rahab alive yet for all this they sinned in lying and doe you not know that the Word of God saith wee must not doe the least evill that the greatest good may come of it but yet by your reasoning a man may which to affirme is the height of wickednes and impiety and also by your reasoning a man may defend and justifie all the sinnes and sayings of Gods people and others recorded in the Booke of God out of which that God that is able to bring light out of darkenes and good out of evill hath brought much glory to himselfe as out of Pharaohs hard heartednesse and blood thirsty cruelty that he exercised upon Gods people it produced good to them by working their deliverance and glory to God by manifesting his power and goodnes yet for all this Pharaohs sin was never the lesse And also according to your reasoning Judas his treason might be excused for that sin of his brought a world of glory unto God and salvation and eternall glory to his elect and chosen ones yet though his betraying of Christ did produce such a good and glorious effect it did nothing at all excuse his sin Againe your Arg. is nothing to the purpose to prove that which you have undertaken for we are not reasoning of the way and meanes of salvation which is only and alone by faith in the Lord Christ which is possible may be had in a false Ch. yea also in no Ch. but the thing we are about is to prove see whether the Ch. of Eng. be a true Ch. of Christ or a false Ch. of Antichr But yet more fully to Answer your Argument what though it be confessed that many of God Elect have been saved that have professed your false and Antichr Rel. it will not therefore follow that your Religion is a true Religion nor your church a true church because some have been saved that have professed it I hope you will not so conclude which if you doe then I say by your owne grounds that the chruch of Rome is a true church the Religion there a true Religion for many therein have lost their lives for the maintaining of some truths which have yet adheared to the Church of Rome of many of their eternall happines as good grounds may be given as the most of the martyrs of the ch of Eng. yea and I verily beleive that God hath had and still hath a people there which belongs to his Election of grace which both hath and will save and so by your owne grounds their church and Religion are both true because it is possible that some that professe have been and still may be saved But if you will maintaine this then you contradict your owne writers which have plentifully proved the Religion in Rome and the church thereof to be false and yet have granted that some have been saved there therefore for you to goe about to prove rhe church of Engl. true and the worship therein true because some of the members thereof that have professed the Religion therin have been saved is an erronious unsound ground for by this ground it will follow that the Crosse upon
nationall churches cityes or daughters that depend vpon her one of which England is and woe to that man at that day that is found within her territories or the Paile of her great catholike church or the walls of her great wide and farre spread spirituall citty Alas man there is a great deale of difference betwixt King Edwards and Queen Maryes times and ours now the martyrs and people of God were then but newly enlightned to see the blake and spirituall darke Kingdome of Satan and Antichrist in which they were brought up the darkenesse whereof was so great the Sun and the Aire was both clouded Rev. 9 2. and the bright shining light of the old and new Testament shut vp in much obscurity to what it is now and they did but see the abominable wickednes of his kingdome a farre of like the man in the Gospell whose eyes Christ opened who at his first looking up did see men walking a farre off like trees even so they saw but the truthes a farre off which made them rejoyce at a little Reformation and highly to esteeme of those things in the worship and service of God that now are made manifest by the light of truth before the open Sun to be no fitter for Gods worship and Service then kennell dirte being meer Idols and those Idolaters that communicate with them and though they rejoyced at a little Reformation of Antichrists errours but now it is made manifest that no Reformation of his Kingdome will serve the turne but it must be now annihilated and nullified before the visible Kingdome of Christ can flourish and become the praise of the whole Earth and you know and confesse they would have no Communion with the Church of Rome from which they thought they had seperated neither with that abominable Idoll the Masse which you confesse they counted detestable though they had communion with the Church of England and the Service-Booke but now the Church of England is proved againe and againe by hundreds of the Seperation and others in their disputes Sermons and writings to be as Antichristian as the Church of Rome and the Service Booke to be as detestable as the Idol of the Masse being even one and the same with it saving that it is in Latine and this in English as Noble Dr. Bastwicke hath proved And what though the abomination and fornication of that great Red WHOORE of Rome in King Edwards time was not so fully laid open but that the Martyrs and chosen people of God did then commit some spirituall Fornication with her must we therefore doe the like no God forbid for the Lambe that standeth upon mount Syon with an Hundred fourty and four Thowsand of his Elect and chosen ones having his Fathers name written in their Foreheads hath proclaimed and made it manifest that Babilon or spiritaall Rome is now fallen and is become the habitation of Divells and tho hold of every soul spirit and the Cage of every uncleane and hatefull Bird with whom Gods people now at no hand are not to be mixed in spirituall Society or Communion And what though the everlasting Gospell then was not so fully preached and revealed as now it is so that Gods people then were exceeding ignorant of it and by their blindnesse thought they thought they had seperated away from the Beasts Kingdome yet were they in it and did worship him must it then follow that we must doe so too no for now the great City Rome is much more fallen and descovered then it was and now a third Angell hath proclaimed it with a lowd voyce having his Commission from God so to doe that seing now the Booke is opened and the trueth of the everlasting Gospell is preached and Light is now brought into the world so that now if after all this a man worship the Beast and his Image or receive in his right hand or in his forhead his marke the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God which is powred out without mixture into the Cup of his Indignation and he shall be tormented with Fire and Brimstone in the presence of the Angells and in the presence of the Lambe and the smoke of their Torment ascended up for ever and ever and they have no rest day nor night that worship the Beast or his Image or receive the marke of his Name Rev. 14.8.9.10.11 Wherefore saith the Spirit of God Came out of her any people that ye be not partakers of her sinnes and that yee receive not of her plagues chap. 18.5 here is the expresse command of God himselfe to all his chosen and elect ones to separate away from all Antichristian Assemblies and not in the least to partake with them in any of their worship ordinances or administrations which precept if any of them refuse to obey let them know that God will plague them and though for his Covenant sake he save their soules yet it will be through much difficulty accompaned with many an heavy and sad heart and many a bitter uncomfortable Crosse Therefore let all Gods people that yet are in her or in the bosome of the Church of England her daughter as they love their own inward peace and spirituall joy and looke that their soules should prosper and florish with grace and Godlines looke to it and withdraw their spirituall obedidience and subjection from all Antichrists Lawes and worship and now joyne themselves as fellow Cttizens of the City of God to worship and serue him in mount Syon the beauty of holynesse and there only to yeild all spirituall obedience to Christs spirituall Lawes and Scepter Now my Opposite I have fully by the authority of the sacred and pure word of God particularly answered your trifling childish and frothy arguments and proved against you and them that the church ministery and worship in England is all of them Antichristian from which all Gods people are bound in consolence ind in paine of undergoing the Lords high displeasure hnd indignation and heing portakers of his fearfull and dreadfull plagues to separate away from it and to have no communion with it Therefore to you my Opposer I say with the Prophet to backstyding Israel Iâ— God be God follow him or if Baall or Antichrist or Rome he God then follow him And so much for the Answering of your erronious Arguments BUt now you will it may be say if salvation as you have confessed and proved may be had in a false Ch. yea in no Gh. then wherefore doe you enter into and become a member of a true Church My Answ to this is in the first place negatively I doe not enter thereinto for to be saved thereby or for to seeke for Jesus Christ as though I wanted either for I have both Christ and salvation as all those ought to have that become fellow citzens of the City of God as I have before largely proved neither doe I enter into into it to live securely and carelesly in sin
and till you have proved it true all the paines that you have taken in proving that it is possible for corruptions and wicked livers to be in a true Ch. is spent in vaine and to no purpose and I am confident that you nor none else will ever be able to prove the Ch. of Eng. true nor any other Nationall Ch. for Jesus Christ by his death did abolish the National Church of the Jewes with all there Lawes rites and Ceremonies thereof and in the new Testament did never institute no nationall Ch. nor left no Lawe nor Officers for the governing thereof but the Church that he instituted are free and indedendant bodies or Congregations depending upon none but only upon Christ their Head Therefore nationall Churches under the Gospell are of Antichrists that man of sins institution and ordaining who only hath ordained Lawes and officers of his owne for the governing of them as I have sufficiently proved at large in my foresaid Answer to W. G. and but put the ease the Ch. of Eng. had been a true Ch. as it never was yet those abominable corruptions and most detestable grosse open notoriovs wickednes and prophanes would have utterly destroyed long ere this her Essence and Being and have made her utterly to have forfeited her Charter and have ceased to a true Ch. for if God threatned to unchurch the Ch. of Ephesus Rev. 2. and to take his heavenly state Charter and Candlesticke frow her for but forsakeing her first Love and the Gh. of Pergamus for having some in her that taught the Doctrin of Balam and the Ch. of Thiatira for suffering Jesabels doctrine to preached amonst them doe you think that he would haue spared the Ch. of Eng. to this day who for many hundred yeares even ever since her first constitution take her at her best hath been ten times worse then all these in which all manner of false doctrines have been manifestly maintained and preached and all kind of prophanes wickednes by her nembers practiced perpetrated Therefore for you or any other to say and affirme that this monsterous ugly botched and skabbed body is Christs true Spouse is dishonourable to his blessed Being and Mediatorship who gave himselfe for his Ch. that he might sanctifie and cleanse it with the washing of water by the Word that he might preserve it to himself a glorious Ch. not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing but that it should be holy and without blemish Ephes 5.26.27 for the name of this City is the Lord is there Ezr. 48.15 all the true Inhabitants of which are to be righteous as the servants and elect ones of the Lord Esa 60.21 65.2 but in the Ch. of Engl. he that is most acute in teaching false doctrine and setting up Antichrists wicked Kingdom climbes to the highest preferment and Church dignity as they call it witnes the prophane ignorant sottish athiesticall Bishops who are so voyde of understanding in the misteries of God and godlines that they dare not publikely dispute with the yonguest boy that doth oppose them though they have been challenged to it Also he that commits the most widkednes and ungodlynes is the best loved and respected and those that labour to oppose false doctrine and walke more holyer then others are the most hated despised and reejcted and this even in the bosome of your Church even by the Pillars and corner stones thereof witnes those late bloody barbarous and tyrannicall cutting of mens eares at the Pillory and whipping others at the Cart that even for conscience sake therefore doe you thinke or have you any ground to imagine that if ever your Ch. had been true but that these transcendant exceeding grosse vile corruptions would not have nullified destroy'd and annihilated her and â—â—â—e made Christ long ere now to have given her a Byll of Divorce as he did to â—…keslyding Israel and to have taken her Charter from her as he hath done from all those famous flourishing renouned Churches recorded in the New Testament It is true The Ch. of the Jewes had grosse mighty corruptions in her which was the height of her sin for which God severly plagud and punished her many times And what if she had such things in her that will not in the least defend the mighty corruptions in your Ch. seeing as I have proved it never was a true Ch. no nor never so long as she stands in that falfe Antichristian Nationall state as she doth but as for the Ch. of the Jewes it was a true Ch. unto whom God truly gave his Lawes Ordinances in the observation keeping of which she might have continued lovely amiable and beautifull in his eyes but yours hath not her Power Lawes and Ordinances from God but from the Divell Antich Rev. 13.2.4 It is true it was the sin of the Jewes to commit such grosse evils as they did and to suffer the offenders amongst them to goe unpunished contrary to their wholesome Lawes Gods own commaund who had ordained commanded them that the soule that committed such such evils should be out off destroyed from amongst the people as you may largely read in the 4. last Bookes of Moses because the Land as well as the people was an holy Land by virtue of Gods institution of it and setting it a part for himselfe as well as the people and therefore he would have had haynous transgressours to be destroyed or killed least the Land should be polluted desiled with their wickednes as he himselfe speakes now because they would not observe the Lawes Ordinances that he had given them though he suffered their manners long and bare much with their sin in that he fatherly chastised and corrected them againe againe before he utterly destroyed them and anhialated their nationall Ch. that so they might be left without excuse but seeing no Reformatton after so many corrections could not be had but their prophanations and grosse abominations were so great and continued in it caused him at the last utterly to renounce them and for ever put an end unto their nationall C. and Ceremoniall Law which was done at the death of Christ when he spake and said it is finished and now he will never any more returne againe unto them to become an husband as he was to the Nation of the Jewes though yet he hath as the Scriptures declare an elect remnant and company amongst them and at the end of their Nationall Church Jesus Christ the eternall Son of God by virtue of that power which he had received of and from his Father changed their Lawes Ordinances as the History of the Acts of the Apostles with the rest of the new Testament doth fully declare and he institued no nationall but particular Churches or Congregations many of which may be in one Countrey or nation all of them independant bodyes depending upon none but only upon Christ their head and withall