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B04736 Quakerism the mystery of iniquity discovered in a brief dialogue between a Christian & a Quaker: By way of supplement to my former papers exhibited in Dublin against them, in two of the most important particulars charg'd upon them; viz. the holy Scriptures, and our Lord Jesus Christ; in which it doth most evidently appear, that both are denied by them, in a true, Christian, and proper sense. / By John Plimpton. Plimpton, John, fl. 1698. 1698 (1698) Wing P2572; ESTC R181887 11,478 32

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of our present age who thus contend for the Scriptures being the rule c. upon what foot they receive them into this place and authority W. P. Christian Quaker pag. 141. Chr. I perceive thou dost not only deny the Scriptures to be the Rule of Faith and Practice but dost also question by what authority we do receive them and thy reasons for so doing is 1st Because the Original is lost 2. Because the Copies be above thirty in number 3. Because there be several thousands of different readings in those Copies 4. Because the Translations are so differing from the true sence of the Copies in many things Thus oh you Quakers have represented the Scriptures in a worse sense than ever I read or heard any Jesuit or Romanist ever did for tho' they censure our Transl●tions in some things yet I never heard but they did speak well of the Copies Thus have you rendred the Scriptures altogether unprofitable For if there be so many thousands of Errors in them how shall I know what is right And so this will make good what you formerly said viz. That it was dangerous for ignorant People to read them Well your opinions are so naucious it makes my stomack begin to wamble it is almost time to leave it however before we part let me ask you one question or two more For since you pretend sometimes to own those holy Precepts and Commandment therein contained I would know to whom they are commanded Qu. That is no command from God to me which he commands to another neither did any of the Saints we read of in Scripture act by the command which was to another c. They obeyed every one their own command and thou J. Turner or any other who goes to Duty as you call it by Imitation from the Letter without which were commands to others in your own wills and time your Sacrifice is not accepted but is an abomination to the Lord. Edw. Borrough's Works p. 47. Ch. If it be an abomination to the Lord to do those commands which were given to others as Borrough's says And Idolatry to call the Bible a means of our knowing God as G. W. says Dip. plung'd p. 13. Then whether we may not cast off all commands in Scripture until commanded a-new by the Light within And whether this be not the reason why you cast off all duty neglecting Prayer in your Familles not accounting your se●ves under that curse Jer. 10.25 also craving no blessing upon your victuals before you eat nor returning any thanks after but sit down and rise up like hogs Certainly these things are very offensive to all that are Christians indeed If this be Quakerism the Lord deliver me from it But can'st thou say no more Qu. By order and authority given me by the Spirit of the Living God on the 31th day of the 10th month 1655 about four a clock in the morning the word of the Lord came to me saying write my controversie with all the Inhabitants of the earth Hence I do say that to take up a command from the Letter and say Christ commands it that thus you are in the witchcraft Edw. Burrough's works p. 96. compared with p. 105. Chr. Is it witchcraft to stand in awe of Christ's Commands to reverence their authority to endeavour to our utmost an observance thereof if it be so I have done with you and I hope if all sober Christians will consider these things they may easily see what esteem you have of the holy Scriptures but I will leave it and proceed to another point Christian Being well assured that you deny the Scriptures to be the rule of Faith and Practice any farther than they agree with the Light within I would fain know what your opinion is concerning Christ Qua. Some are not ashamed to tell the world in our name that Christ was never visible as to his bodily appearance and consequently that we deny his coming in the flesh above sixteen hundred years ago tho his coming is an article of our Christian Belief W. Pen Truth further cleared p. 37. Chr. I am almost certain that never any one accused you for denying Christ's visible appearance that we all accuse you of is for denying that visible appearance to be Christ or part of Christ to which you will not answer directly signifying hereby you are pinched Qu. We believe and confess Jesus Christ took our nature upon him and was like unto us in all things sin excepted that he was born of the Virgin Mary and suffered under Pontius Pilate the Roman Governor crucified dead and buried in the Sepulchre of Joseph of Arimathea that he rose again the third day and ascended into Heaven and sits on the right hand of God in the power and majesty of his Father who will one day judge the world by him even that blessed man Christ Jesus according to their works ibid. p. 17 18. Chr. This Creed seems very plausible as tho it were orthodox but to the end neither I nor any others may be deceiv'd by it I would ask thee these few questions and I prithee answer me directly 1st Whether Christ was before he took that body or whether the taking that body did not constitute him Christ 2. Whether Christ was ever visible or whether he was Christ only as God and so never seen with mortal eyes 3 Whether God is Christ and Christ be the Light and whether the Light in it self be the Christ of God and if so whether the Light did suffer under Pontius Pilate was dead and buried rose again the third day and whether the Light is ascended into Heaven and whether it now sits on the right hand of God Answer me briefly and directly hereunto that so I may be satisfied I will therefore repeat it again 1st Whether Christ was before he took that body or whether the taking that body did not constitute him Christ Qua. Whose are the Fathers and of whom as concerning the Flesh Christ came who is over all God blessed for ever Amen Since here Christ is distinguished from the body he took and made one with that God who is over all blessed for ever Amen As much as to say of whose flesh Christ took therefore Christ was before he took it or his taking it did not constitute him Christ W. P. Christ Qua. p. 97. Chr. This is a direct answer and it puts me out of all doubt concerning your opinion in this matter But since you deny that body to be part of Christ was Christ ever visible Qua. Abraham saw my day and reioyced they still harping upon that visible body not thirty three years old rep●ied thou art not yet fifty and hast thou seen Abraham taking that to be the Messiah the Christ of God and Saviour of the World he meant which they saw with their carnal eyes ibid. p. 96. Chr. 'T is believ'd among the Christians that the Godhead and Manhood conjoint was the true Christ but thou wilt have