maie haue Euerlastinge Life by his Crosse Bloude And wee saie not this is donne sleightly coldely but effectually truely For although wee doo not touche the Body of Christe with teethe and mouthe yet wee holde him faste and eate him by Faithe by Vnderstandinge and by Sprite And it is no vaine Faithe that comprehendeth Christe neither is it receiued with colde deuotion that is receiued with Vnderstandinge Faithe Sprite For Christe him selfe altogeather is so offered and geeuen vs in these Mysteries that wee maie certainely knowe wee be Fleashe of his Fleashe and Bone of his Bones and that Christe continueth in vs and wee in him M. Hardinge It is easy to be perceiued who abaseth more our Lordes Supper whether ye that teache it to be very Bakers Breade and VVine with the onely Figure of Christes Body and Bloude or we who beleeue it to be his true Body and Bloude with the onely Fourmes of Breade and VVine Of whiche Fourmes neither Christe nor his Apostles euer tolde vs one woorde VVether ye that wil haue it a Figure of Christes whole Body absent or wee who wil haue Christes Body present in deede with a Figure of his Deathe whiche Deathe is absente onely VVhether ye that cal it an Idol when it is worshipped or we that do according to our dueitie adore it because that Roial Body as Chrysostome saith whiche is set before vs to be seene now in Earthe is woorthy of the most highe Honour But whether of those two is the colder Ceremonie and more simple Supper to haue Breade and VVine with a Signe onely of Fleashe and Bloude or to haue Reall Fleashe and Bloude with suche formes of Breade and VVine as by the Power of God do nolesse bodily nourishe vs then the Substance it selfe would haue done wee doubte not of wise mens iudgement Ye haue your carnal Bankettes fatte and full inoughe of the beste fleashe and it is with you superstitious to Eate drie and Lenten meates But ye wil haue your spiritual Bankettes so leane and Carreine as a man maye wel discerne whether ye haue more phantasie to your Fleashe or to your Spirite Ye write that many falsely sclaunder you sayinge that ye teache nothinge to be wrought in the Lordes Supper whereas ye affirme that Christe dothe truely and presently geue his owne selfe in his Supper that we may eate him by Faith and Spirite And other worke in the Lordes Supper ye shewe none And this whiche ye shewe a man may doubte whether it be a thinge wrought in the Lordes Supper or no. VVel may ye saie that it is a thinge wrought in thē whiche come to the Supper but that it is wrought in the supper it selfe ye shewe it not the Supper beinge that which is called Coena to witte the meate recetued not Coenatio whiche is the acte of suppinge For sith that supper is nothinge els but meate and drinke set vpō the Table to be receiued by suche as come vnto it that whiche is wrought in the Lordes Supper must be wrought in the meate and Drinke which our Lorde hath at his table And as the matter whereof our Lordes Supper is made is Breade and VVine so the Supper made thereof is our Lordes Body and Bloude into whiche the Breade and VVine by the Almighty power of the VVoorde is changed So that if ye wil shewe Christe him selfe to be made or wrought in our Lordes Supper ye muste shewe Breade and VVine to be changed into Christe him selfe and so to be Eaten of his faithfull at his Table But whereas there are three thinges christe taht makth the Supper the Communicantes that receiue the Supper and the Supper it selfe ye saye that Christe for his parte geueth his owne selfe verily presente likewise that Cōmunicantes for their parte Eate him by faithe and spirite And so ye shewe that the maker of the Supper worketh and that the Cōmunicātes worke But al this while ye shew vs not what is wrought in the matter of the Supper that is to saie in the Breade and VVine nor what is made O great sclaumder that ye were charged withal whiche not so muche as by your owne woorde ye are discharged of Howe muche sounder is the Catholike doctrine whiche reacheth the proper woorke of our Lordes Supper to be the turninge of the Substance of Breade and VVine into his Body and Bloude VVhiche woorke bicause ye wil not confesse yee haue deuised a woorke of your owne workinge whiche is not propre to our Lordes Supper For if I can receiue Christe in my house at home by Faithe and Spirite how is that worke proper to his Supper whiche maye be Wrought without his Supper Or can I not beleeue in Christe or lifte vp my Spirite vnto him excepte I come to Supper Or If I doo call for Christe dothe he not geue him selfe by grace vnto me But saie ye at the Lordes Supper Christe geueth him selfe verily presente To what purpose I praie you That wee maie Eate him saie ye by Faithe and Sprite VVel reasoned forsoothe Haue ye foregotten the geuinge to eate and eatinge that whiche is geuen to be Relatiues one of them hauinge relation to the other If Christe doo exhibite him selfe verily presente as your Latine Texte hath or geueth his owne selfe verily and presently as your Interpreter telleth your tale for you dooth not he so exhibite or geue himselfe as he wil be receiued Or dothe he shewe in one hande a piece of Breade and with the other strike vs on the heade with a stone If he geue vs him selfe verily present as ye saie wee take him verily Presente And then onlesse ye meane by him selfe his grace which is of Christe and not Christe him selfe we eate him verily Presente not onely by Faithe and Sprite but by takinge him into our Mouth and Body If it please him at any time to be Eaten by Fatthe and spirite alone after whiche sorte he is dately eaten by those that humbly cal vpon him then he geueth not him selfe verely Present but by Faithe and spirite other wise named grace or some spiritual effected of his workinge But in our Lordes Supper the Scripture requireth a special and peculiar presence of christe to witte of his fleashe so as it maye be Eaten If then he geeue him selfe verely present as ye saie he is present in his owne person God and Man with Body with Bloude with Soule with Godhed If ye meane the very presence of his Godhed that presence belongeth nomore to Christe them to the Father and to the Holy Ghoste And so haue ye not declared any pecultar presence belonginge to his Supper For by Presence of his Godhed he is alwaies verely present as well before Supper as at or after Supper because he filleth Heauen and Earthe It remaineth that either ye vnderstande not your selues or wilfully deceiue that infinite number of
man is a True perfite Man As for the Faithe of Diuels in deede and verily it is no Faithe Certainely S. Augustine saithe Qui Fidem habet sine spe dilectione Christum esse credit non in Christum credit He that hathe Faithe without Hope and Charitie Beleueth that there is Christe but hee Beleueth not in Christe Againe he saithe Inseparabilis est Bona uita à Fide quae per Dilectionem operatur imò verò ea ipsa est bona vita Good Life can neuer be diuided from Faithe whiche woorketh by Loue Naie rather that same very Faithe it selfe is good Life S. Ambrose saithe Vbi quis coeperit luxuriari incipit deuiare à vera Fide As soone as a man beginneth to liue wantonly he beginneth to flee from the True Faithe Origen saithe Omnis qui credit in cum non crubescit Erubescit autem Omnis qui peccat Ergo qui adhuc ruborem peccati incurrit credere non videtur VVho so euer Beleeueth in God blussheth not But euery man blussheth that woorketh Sinne Therefore he that yet blussheth for his Sinne seemeth not to Beleeue Againe he saithe Malè credit quicunque peccat VVho so euer sinneth Beleeueth il To be shorte S. Cyprian saithe Quomodo dicit se credere in Christum qui non facit quod Christus facere praecepit Howe doothe hee saie He Beleeueth in Christe that doothe not the thinge that Christe Commaunded Hereby it is plaine that True Faithe is liuely and woorkeful and that an Idle Faithe is in deede no Faithe at al. But you saie Good VVoorkes haue theire rewarde and therefore ye saie This Heresie maie not so escâ—pe Whether Good Woorkes shal be rewarded or no it was no parte of Our question For wee vndoubtedly beleue the wordes that are written by S. Iohn Opera illorum sequuntur illos Theire VVoorkes folowe after them Wee beleeue the woordes that Christe saithe to his Disciples He that geeueth a Cuppe of colde Water to any of these litle Ones for my sake shal not lose his rewarde We beleeue that that S. Paule saithe Your Woorke shal not be in vaine in the Lorde Wee graunte Good Woorkes haue theire Rewarde But the same Rewarde standeth in Mercie and Fauoure and not in Dewtie Thus therefore we saie Consideringe the weakenesse and sinful corruption of Our Nature there can be no Woorkes in vs so pure and perfite that we maie thereby of right and of dewtie deserue Euerlastinge Life And this M. Hardinge is no Heresie but the very plaine Sense and Substance of Goddes Woorde and the vndoubted Doctrine of the Anciente Catholique Fathers of the Churche Iob saithe Si Homo velit contendere cum Deo non poterit ei respondere vnum pro mille If a man wil dispute with God he is not hable to answeare him one for a thousande And therefore he saithe Verebar omnia Opera mea I stoode in doubte and was afraide of al my Woorkes Againe he saithe Although â— were perfite yet my soule shal not know it If I woulde iustifie mee selfe myne owne Mouthe shal condemne me The ProÌ„phete Esai saithe Al our Righteousenesse is like a fowle stained clowte Therefore S. Augustine saithe Non intres in Iudicium cum Seruo tuo Quid est Non intres in iudicium cum Seruo tuo Non stes mecum in iudicio exigendo a me omnia quae praecepisti omnia quae iussisti Nam me inuenies reum â—i in iudicium intraueris mecum Opus ergo est Misericordia tua potiùs quà m liquidissimo iudicio tuo O Lorde enter not into iudgemente with thy Seruaunte What meaneth that Enter not into iudgemente with thy Seruaunte Thus mutche it meaneth Stande not with me in iudgemente requiringe of me al that thou haste commaunded For if thou enter into iudgemente with me thou shalt finde me guilty I haue neede therefore not of thy vpright Iudgemente but of thy Mercie Againe he saithe Merita quorumlibet hominum quae sunt Quandoquidem ille qui non cum Mercede debita sed cum gratuita Gratia venit Omnes peccatores solus à peccato liber liberator inueuit VVhat be the Merites of any menne For Christe that came not vvith his devve revvarde but vvith his Grace that vvas not devve founde al menne sinners being him selfe onely free from sinne and a deliuerer of Sinners Againe hee saithe Coronat te in Misericordia Miserationibus Hoc fiet in iudicio vbi cùm Rex iustus sederit in throâ—o redditurus vnicuique secundum opera eius quis gloriabitur castum se habere Cor Aut quis gloriabitur mundum se esse à peccatis Ideò illie necessarium fuit coÌ„memorare MiserationeÌ„ Misericordiam Domini c. God crowneth with Fauour and Mercie That shal be doune in the laste iudgemente where as when the Juste Kinge shal sit in his Throne to render to euery man accordinge to his woorkes who shal boaste that his harte is chaste Or who shal boaste that be is cleane from Sinne Therefore it was needeful to make mention of the Pitie and Mercie of Our Lorde And againe Opera manuum mearum non Commendo Timeo enim ne cùm inspexeris plura inuenias peccata quà m Merita Lorde I commende not the woorkes of my handes For I am afraide leste when thou shalte beholde them thou shalt finde moe sinnes then good deseruinges So saithe S. Hierome Si consideremus nostra Merita desperandum est If vvee beholde our ovvne Merites vvee muste be driuen to desperation So saithe Origen Ego vix mihi persuadeo vllum opus esse posse quod ex debito remunerationem deposcat I doo scarcely beleue that there can be any woorke that maie of devvtie require revvarde Againe he saithe Dicite vos esse Seruos inutiles Nam etsi Omnia fecerimus quae praecepta sunt non tamen bonum aliquod fecimus Nec enim si verè bona essent essemus inutiles Omne autem bonum nostrum non propriè sed abusiuè bonum dicitur Saie ye saithe Christe that ye be vnprofitable Seruauntes For notwithstandinge wee haue donne al thinges that are commaunded yet haue vve donne no good thinge For if our dooinges were good in deede then were wee not vnprofitable But any good deede of oures is called good not rightly or devvly but by abuse of speache So saith S. Augustine Si Deus vellet pro Meritis agere non inueniret nisi quod damnaret If God would deale with vs according to that we haue deserued be shoulde finde nothinge but that he might condemne Therefore M. Hardinge VValdensis one of your greate Doctours hauinge wel circumspectely weighed the mater of euery side at the laste concludeth thus Quid dignum facimus vt participes Coelestibus fieri inueniamur Apostolo dicente Existimo quòd non suÌ„t condignae passiones huius temporis ad futuram gloriam quae
A Defence of the Apologie of the Churche of Englande Conteininge an Answeare to a certaine Booke lately set foorthe by M. Hardinge and Entituled A Confutation of c. By Iohn Iewel Bishop of Sarisburie 3. ESDRAE 4. Magna est Veritas praeualet Greate is the Truthe and preuaileth ET INVENTA EST PERIIT Jmprinted at London in Fleetestreate at the signe of the Elephante by Henry VVykes Anno 1567. 27. Octobris Cum Gratia Priuilegio Regiae Maiestatis TO THE MOSTE VERTVOVS and Noble Princesse Queene Elizabeth by the Grace of God Queene of Englande France and Irelande Defender of the Faithe c. IT had benne greatly to be wished moste Gracious Soueraine Lady that as God of his mercie hath geeuen vs euer sithence the first time of your Maiesties moste happy gouernmente sutche successe in al ciuile affaires sutche concorde and quietnesse in al Estates as our Fathers seldome haue seene before so our hartes with like felicitie mighte thorowly haue consented in the profession of one vndoubted Truthe and al our willes whiche now are so violently rente a sunder and so farre distracted mighte fully haue ioined togeather in the VVil of God that al quarrelles and contentions set aparte wee might with one mouthe and one minde glorifie God the Father of our Lorde Iesus Christe How be it it appeareth by the continual storie and whole discourse of the Holy Scriptures that Almighty God of his deepe Iudgements and secrete Prouidence suffreth some menne oftetimes to delite in darkenesse to withstande the Gospel to seeke occasions and wilfully to sette them selues againste the knowledge and Truthe of God I write not this Moste Gracious Lady to thintente to make them odious in your Maiesties sighte that this daie are the procurers of al these troubles God is hable euen of the harde vnsensible stones to raise vp children vnto Abraham and to make them the vessels of his Mercie Neuerthelesse as S. Paule teacheth vs sutche menne there haue benne in times paste that haue had their Consciences burnte with hote irons speakinge and maineteininge Lies in Hypocrisie that haue geeuen them selues ouer into reprobate and wilful mindes and haue despised the VVisedome of God within them selues And notwithstandinge sutche battailes and dissensions specially in the Churche of God whiche is called the House of Vnitie be offensiue and greeuous vnto the Godly and therefore woorke greate hinderance vnto the dewe passage of the Gospel of Christe yet in the ende the trouble hereof in Goddes Electe is recompensed abundantely with greate aduantage For Goddes Truthe is mighty and shal preuaile Dagon shal falle downe headlonge before the Arke the Darkenesse shal flee before the Lighte and the more fiercely mannes wisedome shal withstande the more glorious shal God be in his Victorie But shortely to discourse vnto your Maiestie the particulare occasions hereof from the beginninge after it had pleased Almighty God at the firste entire of your Maiesties Reigne by a moste happy exchange and by the meanes of your Maiesties moste Godly trauailes to restoare vnto vs the Lighte and comforte of his Gospel there was written and published by vs a Litle Booke in the Latine tongue entitled An Apologie of the Churche of Englande conteininge the whole Substance of the Catholique Faithe no we professed and freely preached throughoute al your Maiesties Dominions that thereby al foreine Nations might vnderstande the considerations and causes of your Maiesties dooinges in that behalfe Thus in olde times did Quadratus Melito Iustinus Martyr Tertullian and other Godly and Learned Fathers vpon like occasions as wel to make knowen the Truthe of God and to open the groundes of their Profession as also to put the Infidels to silence and to stoppe the mouthes of the wicked This Apologie beinge thus written firste in Latine and afterwarde vpon the comfortable reporte of your Maiesties moste Godly enterprises translated into sundrie other tongues and so made common to the moste parte of al Europe as it hath benne wel allowed of and liked of the Learned and Godly as it is plaine by their open testimonies touchinge the same so hath it not hitherto for ought that maie appeare benne anywhere openly reproued either in Latine or otherwise either by any one mannes Priuate writinge or by the Publique Authoritie of any Nation Onely one M. Hardinge not longe sithence your Maiesties subiecte nowe mislikinge the presente state and resiante in Louaine hath of late taken vpon him againste the saide Apologie with the whole Doctrine and al the partes of the same to publishe an open Confutation and to offer the same vnto your Maiestie wherin he sheweth him selfe so vehemente and so sharpe and busie in findinge faultes that he doubteth not to seeke quarrelles againste vs euen in that wee maineteine the Baptisme of Christian Infantes the proceeding and Godhedde of the Holy Ghoste the Faithe of the Holy and Glorious Trinitie and the General and Catholique Profession of the common Creede Thus for that he hath once seuered him selfe from vs he beareth nowe the worlde in hande wee can beleeue nothinge without an erroure The maigne grounde of his whole plea is this That the Bishop of Rome what so euer it shal like him to Determine in Iudgemente can neuer erre that he is alwaies vndoubtedly possessed of Goddes Holy Sprite that at his onely hande wee muste learne to knowe the VVil of God that in his onely Holinesse standeth the Vnitie and safetie of the Churche that who so euer is diuided from him muste by iudged an Heretique and that without the obedience of him there is no hope of Saluation And yet as though it were not sufficiente for him so vainely to soothe a man in open Erroures he telleth vs also sadly and in good earnest that the same Bishop is not onely a Bishop but also a Kinge that vnto him belongeth the Authoritie and righte of bothe Swerdes as wel Temporal as Spiritual that al Kinges and Emperours receiue their whole power at his hande and ought to sweare obedience and Fealtie vnto him For these be his woordes euen in this Booke so boldely dedicate vnto your Maiestie It is a greate eie soare saithe M. Hardinge to the Ministers of Antichriste to see the Vicare of Christe aboue Lordes and Kinges of this vvorlde and to see Princes and Emperours promise and svveare obedience vnto him And whereas Pope Zacharie by the consente or conspiracie of the Nobles of France deposed Chilperichus the true natural and liege Prince of that Realme and placed Pipinus in his roume Loe saithe M. Hardinge yee must needes confesse that this vvas a Diuine povver in the Pope for othervvise he coulde neuer haue donne it Thus mutche he esteemeth the dishonoures and ouerthrowes of Goddes Anointed VVhereas also Pope Boniface the Eighth for that he coulde not haue the Treasurie of France at his commaundement endeuoured with al his bothe Ecclesiastical and VVorldly puissance to remoue
abbridged in the Councel of Hippo as it maie appeare by my answeare in this Booke Fol. 519. Whereas contrariwise the Councel of Hippo was abbridged in the Councel of Carthage This in deede of my parte was an erroure And I thanke M. Dorman that hathe geeuen mée occasion better to consider the same Notwithstandinge as I saide before the woordes be plaine Praeter quas Scripturas alia non legantur The Apologie Par. 5. Cap. 11. Diui. â— The Canonistes this date vse to saie of the Pope that for so mutche as he is Lorde of al benefices though he sel Bishoprikes Monasteries Benefices and Spiritual promotions for monie yet he cannot committe Simonie though he would neuer so faine M. Hardinge 15. Vntruthe VVhereas it is written in Summa Angelica In Curia Romana titulus De Simonia non habet locum The selfe same Summe vseth this distinction saieinge Verum est in ijs quae sunt Simoniaca de Iure positiuo solùm sed non in ijs quae sunt Simoniaca de lure Diuino VVhereby he meaneth that concerninge Simonie whiche properly is so called the Pope is no lesse subiecte thereto then any other man Thus haue you shamefully belied Summa Angelica The Replie Hereby it appeareth that M. Hardinge vnderstaÌ„deth not his owne Summa For by Simonia de Iure positiuo is meante the sale of Bishoprikes and Benefices c. whiche as this Summa saithe the Pope maie freely selle for monie without empeachemente of any manner of Simonie For beter proufe whereof Theodoricus saithe Papa non potest committere Simoniam Sic tenent Iuristae Quia Simonia excusatur per Authoritatem Papae De Schismate inter Vrban Clemen lib. 2. cap. 32. An other saithe Papa non committit Simoniam recipiendo pecuniâ—m pro collatione Beneficiorum 〈◊〉 shamefully wee belie Summa â—â—gelica 16. Vntruthe In the fourthe parte 7. chapter and. 4. Diuision of this Booke touchinge that most vile and shameful abusing of Franciscus Dandalus Gentleman of Venice that was driuen to wallowe vnder the Popes table in a chaine like a Dogge reported as M. Hardinge saithe by Sabellicus in the first Booke of his Seconde Decade I haue answeared as then I thought accordinge to truthe that Sabellicus wrote no Decades but onely Enneades as it might appeare by his woorkes printed either at Basile by Heruagius or otherwhere by any other Sithence I vnderstande that there is nowe extante an other Booke of Sabellicus by the name of Decades set foorthe of late at Basile by Coelius Secundus Curio An. 1560. Vnderstande thou therefore good Reader that herein I folowed sutche Bookes of Sabellicus as had benne long abroade and were wel acquainted amoÌ„g the learned But that there should any other newe Booke of Sabellicus be printed afterwarde specially so longe after the Authours death I coulde not prophesie These and sutche other good Christian Reader be our Vntruthes so many in number and of sutche weighte that M. Hardinge thinketh him selfe wel hable easily with the same to lode a Carte To al these so many and so many so horrible and so blasphemous Lies Goddes Holy name be blessed wée maie truely saie with S. Paule Tanquam seductores ecce veraces Wee are called deceiuers and yet wee saie the Truthe How be it I doo not so warrante euery parcel of any my writinges as though there were nothinge therein conteined but might safely be iustified in al respectes and againste al quarrels Sutche reuerence by S. Augustines iudgemente wée ought to géeue onely to the VVoorde of God Nomans Learninge or memorie was euer infinite But of al others I acknowledge mine to be the weakeste If I haue at any time mistaken either Authoure for Authoure or Name for Name or Chapter for Chapter or Booke for Booke as whereas in the allegatioÌ„ of Pope Leo in stéede of these woordes Indiuiduam VnitateÌ„ I wrote Indiuiduam Trinitatem or whereas in stéede of these woordes Paulinus ad Romanianum I wrote Paulinus ad Augustinum the saide Epistle of Paulinus beinge mingled with a whole Booke of the Epistles of S. Augustine Or if vpon any other like 〈◊〉 I haue alleged either Liberius for Athanasius or the Arians for the Euty 〈◊〉 or any one Father or Doctoure for an other sutche errours beinge bolde of malice were neuer hitherto accoumpted damnable The beste Learned haue oftentimes fallen into them For prouse whereof it were easy to saie that Cicero notwithstanding otherwise a great Learned man alleged Aiax in stéede of Hector Agamemnon in stéede of Vlysses Eupolis in stéede of Aristophanes That Aristotle alleged Calypso in stéede of Circe That Gratian allegeth Aniceus for Anicetus Ambrosius for Augustinus Calixtus for Anacletus Greeke for Latine Nevve for Olde That Hippolytus allegeth the Apocalyps of S. Iohn in stéede of Daniel That S. Chrysostome nameth Abacuk for Sophonias and Agar for Sara If thou be desirous to sée these seueral errours further proued it maie please thee to sée mine Answeare to this s Fol. 362. That in the alleginge of Liberatus I leaste out this woorde Quodammodò it was onely an Erroure For why I should of pourpose doo it there was no cause specially that woorde bearinge in that place no greatter weight But M. Hardinge alleginge these woordes of S. Augustine Christus quodammodò ferebatur in manibus suis not of erroure but as it maie be thought of set pourpose leafte out Quodammodò as knowinge that in that one woorde reasted the meaninge of the whole Briefely what so euer other like erroure shal be found in any my writinges I wil discharge bothe my Clerke and the Compositoure the Printer of the same take the whole vpon mée self I speake not this for that I thinke my Booke can be printed without erroure for that in sutche a number varietie of allegations were scarcely possible But if any erroure what so euer shal escape as I doubte not but there wil many I proteste before him that séeth the harte it walbe wholy againste my wil. And yet maie not these menne so charge others as if they them selues onely were priuileged and exempted from al sutche dangers M. Hardinge maie remember that he him selfe in stéede of the Prophete Osee hath alleged vs the Noble Iosua and that by an other like ouersight he hath alleged the Eighth Booke of Socrates Scholasticus whereas Socrates neuer wrote but Seuen As likewise also M. Dorman allegeth the Seuenth Booke of the Storie of Theodoretus whereas Theodoretus him selfe neuer wrote but Fiue And againe he fraieth al Christian Princes with the horrible Examples of the Tvvoo Kinges as he saith Ozias and Oza Yet he might easily haue learned that Oza was a poore Priuate man and neuer knowen to be a Kinge Notwithstandinge in one of his late litlewoorthe Pamflettes confessinge his ouersight herein he stumbleth into an other Erroure as fowle as the first and bewraieth his ignorance more then before For nowe he telleth vs
knoweth that Tertullian speaketh namely and onely of suche Aliens and Strangers as knewe not the Truthe of God Whether of these two woordes it shal like him to leaue vs the sense is al one it forceth nothing If he wil néedes refuse this woorde Ignotus so that he receiue the other woorde Extraneus and graunte that he and his felowes be Strangers to Goddes Truthe it shal be sufficiente Howe be it he addeth farther that they of his side are nowe no Strangers but knowe God as his deare frendes and kinsfolke Euen so saide the Phariseis of them selues Nunquid nos Coeci sumus What be we blinde too But Christe answeared them Yf ye were blinde then had ye no sinne Now ye say that ye see Therefor your sinne remaineth stil And againe I am come to Iudgemente into the worlde that they that see maie be made blinde And againe The Children of the kingdome shal be throwen foorthe into vtter darknesse Yet further M. Hardinge saithe After that the Gospel had benne sounded abroade by the Apostles and theire Successours then was the Truthe nomore a Stranger or a Pilgrime in Earth Whereby he woulde closely conclude that his Churche of Rome can neuer erre But this is too vaine a Paradise For Daniel speakinge of the later daies saithe Veritus prosternetur in â—erra The Truthe shal be ouerthrowen in the Earthe Chrysostome saithe Abornihatio Desolationis stabit in Sanctis Locis Ecclesiae The Abomination of desolation shal stande in the Holy places of the Churche S. Augustine saithe Vsque ad huius sâ—eculi finem inter persecutiones mundi consolationes Dei peregtinando procurrit Ecclesia Vntil the worldes ende the Churche goeth foreward as it were in a Pilgrimage bytweene the persecutions of the worlde and the comfortes of God And againe Tota Ciuitas Dei peregrinatur in terris The whole Cittie of God which is the Churche is a Stranger and a Pilgrime in the Earthe Verily as longe as Satan the Prince of darkenesse is Prince of this world so longe the Truthe of God passeth in this world as a Stranger and beinge emonge Strangers as Tertullian saithe easily findeth enimies is it intreated He saithe further Caeterum vnum hoc gestit ne ignorata damnetur This onely thinge Truthe desireth that noman condemne her before he knowe her The Apologie Cap. 2. Diuision 1. Wherfore we ought to beare it the more quietly whiche haue taken vpon vs to professe the Gospel of Christe if we for the same cause be handled after the same sorte and if we as our Forefathers were longe agoe be likewise at this daye tormented and baited with raylinges with spiteful dealinges and with lies and that for no desert of our owne but onely bicause we teache acknowledge the Truthe M. Hardinge O blessed folowers of the Patriarkes Prophetes Apostles Martires and Christe him selfe that suffer so much persecution in your innocencie hauinge deserued nothinge at all and onely bicause ye acknowledge and teache the Truthe But Sirs by your leaue how foloweth this VVherfore of your former common place so largely treated This is your fowle faulte whiche you make in your Logike Howe proue ye this argument The Truthe is persecuted and the professours of the Truthe haue euer bene euill treated wherefore wee ought to beare it quietly beinge likewise handled for the same cause c. If you make this argument whiche ye seeme priuely to make leauinge out the Minor The professours of the Truthe be persecuted for the Truthes sake wee be professours of the Truthe Therefore we suffer persecution for the Truthes sake Yf ye saye thus we embarre you from your Conclusion by deniynge your Minor whiche ye can neuer proue And if ye reason thus whiche waye also ye seeme to vse The professours of the Truthe suffer persecution VVee suffer persecution Ergo wee are professours of the Truthe VVe graunt your Minor is true but your argument is naught So might all Heretikes saye and by that argument proue them selues right beleuers VVherefore vntil ye proue that ye succede the Patriarkes Prophetes Apostles Martyrs and Christe himselfe in professinge the Truthe boast not as ye doo of your Forefathers For not they whome ye name in your Proeme but Hus VViklese Peter Bruse Berengarius VValdenses Albingenses Donatistes Aëâ—ians Manichees and suche the like Heretikes iustly condemned of the Churche were your Forefathers The B. of Sarisburie M. Hardinge pretendeth Logique and endeth in Sophistrie The argument wée make wherewith he playeth so pleasantly is founded vpon these woordes of Christe The Scholare is not aboue his Maister nor the Seruant aboue his Lorde If they haue persecuted me they wil persecute you Al these thinges shal they doo vnto you for my names sake bicause they knowe neither my Father nor me The Minor is this wée succede the Apostles and Martyrs and are the professours of the Truthe Whiche Minor by M. Hardinges iudgement we can neuer proue But Goddes holy name be blessed for euer The greatest parte of Christendome this daye seeth this Minor is true and that bothe we are the professours of Goddes knowen Truthe and you the professours of manifest salsehed Touchinge the Donatistes and Manichees and al other like condemned Heretiques and Heresies we vtterly abhorre them euen as the gates of Hel. As for Iohn Wicklese Iohn Husse Valdo and the reste for ought wée knowe I beleue settinge malice aside for ought you know they were godly menne Theire greatest Heresie was this that they complained of the dissolute and vitious liues of the Cleregie of woorshippinge of Images offeined Miracles of the tyraÌ„nical pride of the Pope of Monkes Freeres Partans Pilgrimages and Purgatorie and other like deceiuinge and mockinge of the people and that they wisshed a reformation of the Churche Wée succede not them nor beare theire names Wée succede him whose woorde wée professe whose woorde M. Hardinge they of your side haue so often condemned and vnder a colour of false Translation haue burnte for Heresie Hereof we fourme our argument in this sorte Christe the Sonne of God was persecuted carried as a Lauuye vnto the Slauterhouse for speakyng the Truthe Therefore it behooueth vs for the same cause sufferinge the like to take it with patieuce So saithe S. Peter Christe died for vs leauing vs an example that we should folowe his steppes If wee suffer patiently for dooinge wel this thinge is thankes woorthy before God So the holy Father and Martyr Ignatius comforted him selfe when he was in the middes of his tormentes laÌ„ incipio esse Discipulus Christi Now beginne I to be Christes Disciple So Tertullian Quid debeo nisi sanguinem quem pro me fudit Filius Dei What thinge owe I els but the Bloude whiche the Sonne of God hath shedde for me The like comforte in like cases Christe geueth to his Disciples Reioice ye saithe he and he gladde for your rewarde is greate in Heauen For
conclude what if he be vtterly ignorant as many haue benne and cannot Féede Yet must he needes be the headshepheard ouer the whole flocke and must al the shéepe obey him and heare his voyce that cannot speake Verily S. Augustine saithe Qui hoc animo pascunt oues Christi vt suas velint esse non Christi se conuincuntur amare non Christum vel gloriandi vel dominandi vel acquirendi cupiditate Who so euer they be that Feede the sheepe to the ende to make them theirs and not Christes they soue them selues and not Christe for desire either of glorie or of rule or of gaine The Apologie Cap. 2. Diuision 8. That we set naught by the authoritie of the Auncient Fathers and Councels of olde time that we haue rashly and presumptuously disanulled the olde Ceremonies whiche haue benne wel allowed by our fathers and forefathers many hundred yeeres past both by good customes and also in ages of more puritie and that we haue by our owne priuate head without the authoritie of any Sacred General Councel brought Newe Traditions into the Churche haue donne al these thinges not for Religions sake but onely vpon a desire of contention and strife But that they for their parte haue chaunged no manner of thinge but haue helde kepte stil sutche a number of yeres to this very day al thinges as they were deliuered from the Apostles and wel approued by the most Auncient Fathers M. Hardinge The auncient fathers are but men if they please you not But if ye finde anie colour of aduantage but in the newe Schoolemen ye make mutche of it So that your owne opinion is the rule to esteeme them or despise them Councles ye admitte as your phansie and pleasure leadeth sometimes three sometimes foure sometimes fiue or sixe But al ye would neuer admitte and yet so many as are general and haue bene confirmed by the See Apostolike they are al of like authoritie Concerninge Ceremonies if ye shewe vs not the vse of Chrisme in your Churches if the signe of the Crosse be not borne before you in Processions and other where 's vsed if Holy VVater be abolished if lightes at the Gospel and communion be not had if peculiar Vestimentes for Deacons Priestes Byshoppes be taken awaie and many suche other the like iudge ye whether ye haue duely kepte the old Ceremonies of the Churche As for your newe Traditions Pâ—ites and Ceremonies I can not tel what to make of them nor whether I maye so terme them No manner of thinge haue we changed that is of necessitie either to be beleued or to be obserued The B. of Sarisburie Wée allowe the Auncient Fathers the same credite that they them selues haue euer desired S. Augustine hereof writeth thus Neque quorumuis Disputationes quantumuis Catholicorum laudatorum hominum velut Scripturas Canonicas habere debemus vt nobis non liceat salua reuerentia quae illis debetur aliquid in illorum Scriptis improbare aut respuere si fortè inuenerimus quòd aliter senserint quà m Veritas habet Talis sum ego in scriptis aliorum tales volo esse intellectores meorum We receiue not the Disputations or VVritinges of any menne be they neuer so Catholique or praise-woorthy as wee receiue the Canonical Scriptures but that sauinge the reuerence dewe vnto them wee may wel reproue or refuse some thinges in theire writinges if it happen wee finde they haue otherwise thought then the Truthe may beare them â—utche am I in the writinges of others and sutche would I wishe others to be in mine Likewise he writeth to S. Hierome Non puto Frater te velle Libros tuos legi tanquam Apostolorum aut Prophetarum I recken not my Brother that ye would haue vs so to reade your Bookes as if they were written by the Apostles or Prophetes It is certaine Tertullian EEyprian Clemens Alexandrinus Papias Irenaeus Victorinus Lactautius Hilarius other Ancient Fathers were oftentimes mutch deceiued S. Hierome sâ—â—ffeth at S. Ambroses Commentaries vpon Luke and calleth them Nugas trifles and nicknameth S. Ambrose sometime callinge him Coruus sometime Cornicula Likewise S. Augustine saithe Ecclesiastici Iudices vt homines plaerunque falluntur The Iudges or Doctours of the Churche as beinge men are often deceiued And Thomas of Aquine saithe Non tenemur de necessitate Salutis credere noÌ„ solùm Doctoribus Ecclesiae vt Hieronymo aut Augustino sed ne ipsi quidem Ecclesiae nisi in his quae pertinent ad substantiam Fidei Wee are not bounde vpon the necessitie of Saluation to beleue not onely the Doctours of the Churche as Hierome or Augustine but also neither the Churche it selfe sauinge onely in maters concerninge the substane of Faithe Touchinge the authoritie of Councels S. Augustine saithe Ipsa plenaria Concilia saepè priora à posterioribus emendantur cùm aliquo experimento aperitur quod clausum eâ—at The very General Councels are often corrected the former by the later as often as by trial and experience the thing is opened that before was shut Likewise Panormitane saithe Plus credendum est vni priuato fideli quà m toti Concilio Papae si meliorem habeat authoritatem vel rationem Wee ought to geue more credite to one priuate â—aye man then to the whose Councel and to the Pope if he bringe better authoritie and more reason If the Counsel be wicked and carried with malice as many haue benne specially within these fewe late hundred yeres We saie as the Prophete Esai saithe Inite Consilium dissipabitur Loquimini verbum non stabit quia nobiscum est Dominus Take Counsel togeather and it shal be broken Speake the woorde and it shal not holde For the Lorde is with vs. As for the late Schole Doctours your selues weigh them as litle as noman lesse You say in youre common talkes Bernardus noÌ„ vidit omnia You haue controlled your Doctour of al Doctours Peter Lombard with this common Caueat in the Margine Hic Magister non tenetur Here our Doctour is no Doctour You your selfe M. Hardinge in this youre very Booke against our Apologie sate that your Doctor Gratian was deceiued and in stéede of Anacletus alleged Calixtus You youre selfe againe saie If in a secrete pointe of learninge S. Augustine or S. Cyprian teache singularely Wee folowe them not mutche lesse do wee binde our selues to beeue what soeuer â—lbertus Pigghius hath written And againe VVee binde our selues neither to the woordes of Syluester nor of Pighius And againe wee take not vpon vs to defende al that the Canonistes or Scholemen saie or write And an other of your companie saieth that your Doctour Gratian hath published great vntruthes wilfully falsified the General Councel Nomen Vniuer salis saithe he assutum est à Gratiano Thus M. Hardinge ye vse your Doctours euen as the Marchante vseth his Counters sometime to stande for an hundred pounde
Habitu victu instructu sensu ipso denique sermone Proauis renuÌ„tiastis Laudatis semper Antiquitatem nouè de die viuitis Per quod ostenditur dum à bonis Maiorum institutis deceditis ea vos retinere custodire quae non debuistis cùm quae debuistis non custoditis Where is your Religion where is the reuerence dewe to your forefathers You haue forsaken them in your apparel in your diet in your order in your meaning and in your speeche Ye change your life daily yet ye praise Antiquitie Whereby it appeareth while ye seaue the good orders of your Elders that yee keepe the thinges yee should not keepe seeinge ye keepe not the thinges ye should keepe The Apologie Cap. 2. Diuision 10. And that this mater should not seeme to be donne but vpon priuie sclaunder and to be tossed to and fro in a corner onely to spite vs there haue benne besides wilily procured by the Bishop of Rome certaine persons of eloquence yenough and not vnlearned neither whiche should put theire healpe to this cause nowe almost despaired of and shoulde polishe and set foorthe the same bothe in bookes and withe longe tales to the ende that when the mater was trimly and eloquently handled ignorant and vnskilful persons might suspecte there was somme greate thinge in it In deede they perceiued that theire owne cause did euery where goe to wracke that their steightes were now espied and lesse esteemed and that theire healpes did dayly faile them and that theire mater stoode altogeather in greate neede of a cunninge spokesman M. Hardinge VVee cannot despaire of this cause onlesse wee would forsake our Faithe as ye haue For beleuinge Christe whiche our faithe leadeth vs vnto wee cannot mistruste the continuance of this cause Heauen and Earthe shal passe but my woordes shal not passe saithe Truthe it selfe And his woordes tel vs that he wil be with his Churche al daies to the worlds ende And that he hath besought his Father to geue to it the Sprite of Truthe to remaine with it for euer Then be wee moste assured of this cause VVee tel you therefore it standeth and shal stande by Christes presence and by the Holy Ghostes assistance to the ende Your cause yet standeth not but wauereth and tottereth as that whiche S. Paule termeth a puffe of doctrine and doubtlesse shortely fall it shall as all Heresies haue fallen The authours and professours of them be dead and rotten in Helfire with weepinge and grintinge of teeth The like iudgement lookeye and your folowers to haue if ye repent not and reuoke your Heresies by time The B. of Sarisburie Wee cannot despaire saithe M. Hardinge of the continuance of our cause For Heauen and Earthe shal passe but Christes VVoorde shal not passe He wil be with vs al daies to the worlds ende c. These Woordes M. Hardinge be true and certaine and therefore our hope is the firmer Christe hath promised that the Sprite of Truthe shal remaine for euer but not in the Pope and his Cardinalles For thereof he made no promise Nay rather the Prophete Esai saithe The Sprite of God shal rest vpon the poore and méeke harted that trembleth at the Woorde of the Lorde The Churche of God shal stande stil yea though Rome were possessed with Antichriste It is true that Christe saithe Euery plante whiche my Heauenly Father hath not planted shal be rooted vp Vpon whiche woordes S. Hilarie saithe Significat Traditionem hominum cruendam esse cuius fauore transgressi sunt Praecepta Legis He meaneth that the Tradition of man for whiche Traditions sake they haue broken the Lawe of God shal be taken vp by the rootes Heauen and Earthe shal passe and your fantastes and diuises M. Hardinge shal passe the Lorde hath spoken it But the Woorde of God and his Churche shal endure for euer But M. Hardinges Almanake saithe Our Doctrine shal fal and that very shortly Herein I professe I haue no skil Goddes wil be donne It is his cause what so euer shal happen his name be blessed for euer In like sorte the Heathens in olde times as S. Augustine saithe vaunted them selues against the Faithe of Christe Ad certum tempus sunt Christiani postea peribunt redibunt Idola redibit quod erat anteà Verùm tu cùm expectas miser Infidelis vt transtant Christiani transis ipse sine Christianis These Christians are but for a while â—al they shal and that shortly Then shal our Idols come againe and it shal be as it was before But O thou miserable Infidel while thou lookest that the Christians should passe thou possest awaie thee selfe without the Christians Againe be saithe Ecce veniet tempus vt finiantur non sint Christiani Sicut coeperunt ad aliquo tempore ita vsque ad certum tempus erunt Sed cùm ista dicunt sine fine moriuntur permanet Ecclesia praedicans brachium Domini omni generationi venturae They saie behold the daie wil come when al these Christians shal haue an ende As they had a time to beginne so shal they haue a time to continewe But while they make these crakes they them selues die without ende But the Churche contineweth stil praisinge the almighty arme of God to euery generation that is to come But ye saie The Authours and Professours of our Doctrine be damned in Hel fiere and crie Peccaui This is a very terrible kinde of talke But it is a rashe parte for you M. Harding so suddainely to skip into Goddes Chaire and there to pronounce your Sentence Definitiue like a Iudge But God wil iudge of your iudgemente S. Augustine saithe Alia est sella terrena aliud Tribunal Coelorum Ab inferiori Sententia accipitur à superiori Corona The earthly Chaier is one thinge the Iudgemente seate in Heauen is an other From the one wee receiue Sentence from the other we receiue a Crowne O M. Hardinge God graunte you maie once crie Peccaui lest the time come that ye shal crie out as it is written in the Booke of Wisedome These are they whom wee sometime had in derision and in a parable of reproche VVee fooles thoughte theire life madnesse and theire ende without honoure But nowe are they coumpted emonge the Children of God and theire portion is emonge the Sainctes The Apologie Cap. 3. Diuision 2. Nowe as for those thinges whiche by them haue benne laide againste vs in parte they be manifestly false condemned so by theire owne iudgementes which spake them partly againe though they be as false too in deede yet beare they a certaine shewe and coolour of truthe so as the Reader if he take not good heede maie easily be tripped and brought into errour by them specially when theire fine and cunninge tale is added thereunto And parte of them be of sutche sorte as we ought not to shunne them as crimes or faultes but to acknowledge and confesse them as
geue Sentence in any mater coÌ„trarie to the Popes pleasure yet it séemeth we are bound to stand to the Iudgement of the Pope as M. Hardinge saithe That the Pope what so euer he saie or doo as beinge Pope can neuer erre These other the like be the Priuileges that the Pope claimeth vnto him selfe Al which the Bishoppes are bound by oths by theire allegeance to defend against al menne aliue Now where you say that Bishoppes onely haue Sentence Definitiue in the Councel ye seeme willingly without cause to reporte Untruthe For Pius Secundus being him selfe a Pope would haue tolde you the contrarie These be his woordes Apparet alios quam Episcopos in Concilijs habuisse vocem decidentem It is plaine that certaine others biside Bishoppes had voice Definitiue in the Councelles Likewise saithe Gerson Etiam ad Laicos hoc potest extendi plus aliquando quà m ad multos ClericoruÌ„ This Priuilege of geuing SenteÌ„ce in Councel may be extended euen vnto yâ—â—aye sort yea and that ofteÌ„times better then vnto many Priestes But here of herafter 〈◊〉 at large But whether we be Bishoppes or no M. Harding is no competent nor indissereÌ„t Iudge For who so wil Iudge vprightly must be voide of anger hatred loue enuie other like affections Whiche Sentence being otherwise profane is vsed halowed by the Apostolique Legates in the Councel of Trident Surely the Godly say that as your Bishoppes doo no part of Bishoppes dewtie therefore in déede are no Bishoppes at al so your late Couente at Trident what so euer glorious name it pleaseth you to geue it yet notwithstanding in déede verily was no Councel Whether Pope Iulius by his Bulie vtterly embarred the Diuines Embassadours of the Princes and frée Citties of Germanie from al audience Disputation in the Councel or no I report me to Pope Iulius owne Bulle touching the same His woordes be these Eriâ— ConciliuÌ„ vt qui temerè loquuti sunt aut dicta recantatâ—â—i veniant aut eorum maudita causa in executionem iam ordinatarum ConstitutionuÌ„ Haeretici declarentur condemnenturi There shal be a Councel that they thâ—â— haue spoken rashly either may recante theire saieinges or els without farther hearing or reasoning of the mater they may be denounced and condemned for Heretiques according to the Constitutions already mode Likewise saithe Iohn Sleidane touchinge the Conference had some time at Augusta In Colloquio frequenter ad initium actionis hoc dicebantinolle se vel tantillum de Opinione Doctrina sua decedere sed quicquid facerent eo fieri vt in sententiam suà m nos adducerent In the Conference yâ— was had bitwene vs and them they told vs at the firste that they would not yelde one whit from theire Opinion and Doctrine But that what so euer they did they did it onely to the intent to bring vs to theire Judgement I could farther allege Matthias Flacius Illyricus Iohannis Fabritius Montanus Petrus Paulus Vergerius the Bishop of Iustinopolis to like purpose But perhaps M. Hardinge would refuse theire Authorities cal them partial Yet in a mater so euident so openly knowen it had ben great folie for them to dissemble Illyricus saithe Nostri audiri non potuerunt quamuis id Amplissimi Caesaris Legati Orarent Our Diuines and Oratours coulde is no wise bee hearde notwithstandinge the Emperours moste woorthie Embassadours hadde desired it Iohannes Fabritius saithe Fateor extensionem fuctam esse ad alias nationes Sed tamen additur eam formam non nisi ad illos pertineâ—e qui resipiscere ad Ecclesiae gremium redire velint I graunt the Saue conduite was extended to other Nations But it is added withal that the same fourme or libertie should perteine to none others but onely to them that would repeâ—te and returne to the bosome of the Churche And againe he saith Tantum aburant ab Aâ—ce DisputationÌ„ vt ne ad vestibulum quidem accedere potuerint The Diuines of the Princes of Germanie were kept so for of from the high Castel of Disputation that they could not be suffered to approche to the entrie Petrus Paulus Uergerius saithe that the Bishop of Uegla in Dalmatia was 〈◊〉 shaken vp in the same 〈◊〉 and threatened with Depriuation and other extremities onely for a litle inâ—ling of the Truthe Now dâ— it what 〈…〉 Authorities Noman is herein so plaine and 〈…〉 M. Hardinge him selfe This is his determinate answeare and ful resolution in the case Your reason 〈◊〉 no more to be hearde onlesse ye repente and 〈◊〉 your er rours â–ª Againe Our doctrine hath ben approued too longeth be put a 〈◊〉 in these daies Againe â—â—â—â—che wicked 〈◊〉 as ye haue made ie it is lanful to make neither 〈…〉 Councel not without Councel Againe vve tel you that your change of religion and 〈…〉 Heresies ought not be haue benne 〈◊〉 nor without the Bishop of 〈◊〉 commanndemente nor with his commaundemente These be your woordes M. Hardinge This you say you tel vs plainelyâ—and therefore I trowe we must beleue you And so ye séeme to conclude with the woordes written in the Pâ—â—yhete Hieremie Non audiemus Verbum quod loquissus es nobis in nomine Domini sed faciendo faciemus omne verbuÌ„ quod egredietur ex oâ—e nostâ—â— VVe wil not beare the VVoorde that thou hast spoken to vs in the name of the Lorde But we wil doo euery Woord that shal come from our owne mouthe Was may therefore say of you 〈…〉 Augustine sometimes saide of the Heretiques the Donatistes Cùm omnis 〈◊〉 suspensa expectares in tanta collectione quid 〈…〉 ageretuâ— Quare hoc nisi quia causam suam malam sciebant facillime se posse conuinâ—i si ageretur dubitare non poterant When euery body was looking carefully what should be doone in so great Assemblie they The Donatistes Heretiques laboured what they could that nothing vtterly should be doone And why for They knewâ—theire cause was nâ—ught and could not doubte but that if any conference or Disputation should be had they should soone be reproued The Apologie Cap. 6. Diuision 2. And although S. Hierome would haue no body to be patient when he is suspected of Heresie yet we wil deale herein neither bitterly nor brablingly nor yet be caried away with angre heate though he ought to be reckened neither bitter nor brabler yâ— speaketh yâ— Truth We willingly leaue this kind of eloquence to our Aduersaries who what so euer they say against vs be it neuer so shrewdly or despitefully said yet thinke it is said modestly comely yenough care nothing whether it be true or false We neede none of these shiftes which do maintaine the Truthe Further if we do shewe it plainely yâ— God 's Holy Gospel yâ— Auncient Bishoppes and the Primitiue Churche do wake on our side that we
M. Hardinge here moueth and the whole contention of the Arians Epiphanius writethe thus Nomen Substantiae simpliciter nudè in veteri Noua Scriptura non proponitur Sententia autem eius nominis vbique ocâ—urrié This woorde Substance plainely and nakedly is not founde neither in the Olde not in the Newe Testamente But the sense and meaninge of that woorde is founde euerywhere In this conference and Iudgemente of the Holy Scriptures wée néede oftentimes the discretion and wisedome of Learned Fathers Yet notwithstandinge maye wée not géeue them herein greater crediâ—e then is conuenient or then they them selues if it were offered would receiue Wée maye reuerently saye of them as Seneca in the like case sommetime saide Non sunt Domini sed Duces nostri They are our Leaders but not our Lordes They are not the Truthe of God it selfe but onely witnesses vnto the Truthe Therfore S. Augustine saithe Alios Scriptores ita lego vt quanâ—alibet Sanctitate Doctrinaque praepolleant non ideò verum putem quòd ipsi ita senserint sed quòd id mihi vel per alios Authores Canonicos vel probabili ratione persuadere potuerint Other writers or Fathers bisides the Holy Scriptures I reade in this sorte that be theire Learninge or Holinesse neuer so greate I wil not thinke it true bicause they haue thought so but bicause they are hable to persuade me so either by other Canonical writers or els by some likely reason Likewise againe he saithe Hoc genus literatum noÌ„ cum credendi necessitate sed cum iudicandi libertate legendum est This kinde of writinges of the Holy Doctours and Fathers must be readde not with necessitie to beleeue eche thinge but with libertie to iudge of eche thinge And to that ende he saithe Ne Catholicis quidem Episcopis consentiendum est sicubi fortè falluntur vt contra Canonicas Dei Scripturas sentiant Wee maie not consente vnto the Bishoppes notwithstandinge they be Catholique if they iudge contrarie to the Holy Canonical Scriptures In this authoritie and credite wée haue and ought to haue the Holy Fathers Nowe let vs sée whethér the Bishoppes and others in these Councelles confuted these Heretiques as wée saye by the Scriptures or els as M. Hardinge séemethe to saye for wante or weakenesse of the Scriptures vsed therein the Authoritie of the Fathers Firste the Emperour Constantinus in the Councel of Nice instructinge the Bishoppes there howe they might beste debate theire quarrelles and ende al striues saithe thus vnto them Euangelicae Apostolicae Literae Veterum Prophetarum Oracula perspicuè nos instituunt quid oporteat sapere de voluntare sensu Dei. Ponentes ergo contentionem ex diuinitùs inspiraris oraculis quaeramus solutionem eorum quae proponuntur The Euangelistes and Apostles Writinges and the saieinges of the Olde Prophetes doo clearely instructe vs what iudgemente wee ought to haue of the meaninge and wil of God Therefore saieinge a fide al contention out of those Heauenly Oracles let vs seeke for the assoilinge of our questions Socrates also touchinge the same Councel of Nice saithe thus of the Arian Heretiques Explicantes Sacrosanctas Scripturas saepe illos euertimus By openinge and expoundinge the Holy Scriptures oftentimes wee ouerthrewe them Likewise S. Augustine disputinge againste the same Arians refusethe as I haue saide before bothe Councelles and Fathers and appealethe onely to the Scriptures Nec ego Nicenam Synodum tibi nec tu mihi Ariminensem debes obijcere Scripturarum Authoritatibus res cum re causa cum causa ratio cum ratione concertet Neither wil I allege the Councel of Nice against you nor shal you allege the Councel of Ariminum againste me By the Authoritie of the Scriptures let vs weigh mater with mater cause with cause reason with reason Touchinge the Councel holden at Constantinople against Macedonius and the Diuinitie of the Holy Ghoste Athanasius saithe Ne interroges sed solùm ex Sacris literis condiscas Sufficiunt enim documenta quae in illis reperias Neuer mooue question hereof but onely learne of the Holy Scriptures For the onely proufes that ye shal there finde are sufficient to warrant the Godhed of the Holy Ghoste So likewise saithe Euagrius of the other twoo Councelles of Ephesus and Chalcedon Ex Euangelicis Apostolicis de Domino vocibus scimus Viros illos Diuinos constituisse Wee knowe that these Godly Fathers concluded this mater by suche woordes as the Euangelistes and Apostles haue vttered of our Lorde Therefore the Auncient Father Origen saithe Vide quà m propè periculis illi sint qui negliguÌ„t exerceri in Diuinis Literis ex quibus Solis examinationis huiusmodi agnoscenda discretio est Consider in what daunger they be that haue no care to reade the Holy Scriptures For by the same Scriptures Onely the iudgement of this trial must be allowed Euen so saithe Chrysostome Etiamsi in ipsis Veris Ecclesijs quae Dei sunt dixerint Christum apparuisse nolite eis credere dicentibus ista de me Non enim digna est Diuinitatis meae haec notitia OsteÌ„dens per haec quòd ab ipsis saepè Veris Ecclesijs excunt seductores Proptereà ne ipsis quidem credendum est nisi ea vel dicant vel faciant quae conuenientia sint Scripturis Yea if they saie that Christe hathe appeared in the very true Churches of God yet beleeue them not For this is no woorthy or sufficient knoweledge of my Godhed By this he sheweth that out of the very true Churches oftentimes come foor the deceiuers Therefore wee maie not beleeue no not them that speake vnto vs in the name of the Churche onlesse they speake and doo suche thinges as are agreeable to the Scriptures In like manner againe saithe Origen Necesse nobis est in restimonium vocare Sancras Scripturas Sensus quippe nostri enarrationes sine ijs restibus non habent fidem Wee muste needes calle to witnesse the Holy Scriptures For our iudgementes and expositions without those witnesses carrie no credit And to leaue al other like authorities that might he alleged for shorte conclusion S. Augustine saithe Solis Canonicis Scripturis sine vlla recusatione coÌ„sensum debeo I owe my consente without gaine saieinge not vnto the Doctours or Fathers but Onely vnto the Canonical Scriptures But the Bishoppes in those Councelles saithe M. Hardinge brought foorthe and folowed the expositions of the Auncient Learned Fathers And wherefore might they not What man euer taught or saide the contrarie Yet notwithstandinge they alleged them not as the fundations or groundes but onely as approued and faitheful witnesses of the Truthe Whiche thinge if M. Hardinge happily wil denie maie easily appeare by the woordes of Cyrillus pronounced and published openly in the Councel of Chalcedon Gratulamur nobis mutuò quòd nostrae vestrae Ecclesiae Fidem habent
consentientem diuinitùs adspiratis Scripturis Traditionibus Sanctorum Patrum Wee reioice togeather eche of vs in others behalfe for that the Faithe bothe of our Churches and also of yours is agreable bothe vnto the Heauenly inspired Scriptures and also to the Tradition and exposition of our Fathers Whiche woordes of Cyrillus beinge hearde and the consente of the Fathers being knowen the whole Councel for ioye made a shoote togeather Omnes ita credimus Papa Leo ita credit c. Thus wee al beleeue Pope Leo thus beleeuethe Thus beleeuethe Leo and Anatolius Thus Cyrillus beleeuethe This is the Faithe of our Fathers This is the Faithe of the Apostles Thus haue the Apostles taught Thus maye you sée M. Hardinge wée saye not to you as you doo to vs If you be Learned for thereof we haue no doubte God graunte ye maie directe your Learninge to his glorie but thus maye you see to what ende the Bishoppes in the Councelles ye speake of alleged the expositions of the Ancient Fathers and howe farre they weighed them vnder the Authoritie of the Scriptures In like sorte doo wée also this day allege against you the manifeste and vndoubted agreeable iudgementes of the moste Aunciente Learned Holy Fathers and thereby as by apapproued and faitheful witnesses wée disclose the infinite folies and errours of your Doctrine And séeinge you haue forsaken the felowship of the saide Holy Fathers as hereafter shal more â—ully appeare wée saye vnto you as Endoxius saide vnto the Heretique Abbate Eutyches in the Councel of Chalcedon Ye haue remoued your selues bothe from al Priestly Communion and also from the presence of Christe The Apologie Cap. 9. Diuision 2. S. Augustine when he disputed againste Petilian the Donatian Heretique Let not these woordes quod he be hearde betweene vs I saye or you saye Let vs rather speake in this wise Thus saithe the Lorde There let vs seeke the Churche there let vs boulte out the cause M. Hardinge Concerninge this place of S. Augustine it ought not to be stretched to al maters in general that be in question as though wee might not vse the Testimonies and Authorities of the Fathers againste Heretikes but it perteinethe onely to the quaestion in that booke De vnitate Ecclesiae treated of whiche is where the Churche is PetiliaÌ„ the Donatist and the Mainteiners of that Heresie coÌ„tended the Churche to be onely in Aphrike or at the furthest in Parte Donati amonge theÌ„ onely that helde with Donatus The same heresie went they about to proue by Scriptures But when S. Augustine sawe howe weake theire proufes were whiche they brought out of the Scriptures he prouoked them the better to ouerthrow them to come to the trial of the Scriptures And in deede where the Scriptures be manifeste for proufe of any matter what nede is there of Doctours But where the sense of the Scriptures is obscure and may be wrested by euil wittes to the maintenauÌ„ce of an Heresie there the expositions of the Fathers by al Olde VVriters haue ben taken of necessitie to supplie the Scriptures obscuritie and to declare the sense of the Churche whiche the Holy Ghost hathe proÌ„pted And in sutche cases S. Augustine himselfe vsethe the Testimonies of the Fathers not seldome namely against Iulian the Pelagian VVhere beside Scripture touchinge Original sinne he allegethe against the Pelagians a great number of Fathers and at length in one place speakinge of the Authoritie reuerence and credite he had them in he saithe thus Quod credunt credo c VVhat they beleue I beleue what they holde I holde what they teache I teache what they preache I preache From the special to the general negatiuely the argumente holdethe not ye knowe if ye haue not forgotten your Logike The B. of Sarisburie M. Hardinge as wel here as els where thinkethe it an easy mater with a bolde Asseueration to smoothe his vnlearned simple Reader specially sutche a one as hathe no eies to looke after him These woordes of S Augustine saithe he perteine onely vnto the mater he had then in hande and therefore maye not be forced to any other And here he remembrethe vs of a profounde pointe in Logique that a Negatiue CoÌ„clusion from the Special to the General cannot holde Here it were a mater woorthy the hearinge firste howe M. Hardinge coulde enter so déepely to knowe so mutche of S. Augustines meaninge next for as mutche as in respecte of him selfe he euermore fansiethe vs to be vnlearned howe he were hable to teache vs to knowe the same He assuerethe vs vpon his woorde that these woordes of S. Augustine muste néedes be pounded and restreined to that one onely mater maie not in any wise be stretched farther this he imagineth was S. Augustines meaninge Thus good Reader by M. Hardinges handlinge thou haste here a meaninge of S. Augustines that S. Augustine himselfe neuer meante For S. Augustine in the same mater and against the same Heretique Petilian although not in the same Booke writethe thus Siue de Christo siue de eius Ecclesia siue de quacunque re alia quae pertinet ad Fidem vitamque nostraÌ„ noÌ„ dicam Si Nos Sed si Angelus de Coelo nobis annuntiauerit praeterquà m quod in Scripturis Legalibus EuaÌ„gelicis accepistis Anathema sit VVhether it bee of Christe or of his Churche or of any thinge els what so euer perteininge either to our life or to our Faithe I wil not saie If I mee selfe but if an Angel from Heauen shal teache vs otherwise then wee haue receiued in the Bookes of the Lawe and in the Gospelles holde him accursed M. Hardinge saithe S. Augustine meante onely of one mater S. Augustine him selfe saithe he meante of al manner maters touchinge either Faithe or Life M. Hardinge saithe S. Augustine meante this onely of him selfe S. Augustine him selfe saithe be meante it of any other yea eueÌ„ of the Angels of God And shal wee thinke M. Hardinge knoweth S. Augustines meaninge and S. Augustine him selfe knewe it not Verily S. Augustine in an other case concerninge the Arians as I haue touched twise before likewise refuseth the Determinations of al Councelles and Fathers and standeth onely to the Scriptures Neither wil I saithe he â–ª allege againste thee the Councel of Nice nor shalt thou allege againste mée the Councel of Ariminum c. Neither dothe S. Augustine onely saye thus but also yeeldeth a reason why he saithe it These be his woordes Auferantur de medio quae aduersus nos inuicem non ex Diuinis Canonicis Libris sed aliundé recitamus Quaerer fortasse aliquis Cur vis ista auferri de medio Quia nolo humanis Documentis sed Diuinis Oraculis Ecclesiam Sanctam demoÌ„strari Haue away al those Authorities that either of vs allegeth against the other sauinge sutche onely as be taken out of the Heauenly Canonical Scriptures But perhaps somme man wil
One place according to the Nature of his Manhed Wherefore dooth Cyrillus saie Secundum Carnem Solam abiturus Crat Adest autem semper virtue Deitatis According to the Fleash onely he woulde departe But by yâ— power of his Godhed he is euer present Wherfore doth Gregorie saie Verbum Incarnatum Manet Recedit Manes Diuinitace Recedit Corpore The woord Incarnate bothe abideth with vs and departeth from vs. It abideth with vs by the Godhed It departeth from vs by the Body or Manhed Wherefore dooth S. Augustine saie Ibat per id quod Homo erat Manebat per id quod Deus erat Ibat per id quod Vno Loco erat Manebat per id quod vbique erat Christ departed by that he was Man and aboade by that he was God He departed by that that was in One Place He aboad by that that is in al Places If ye wil yet stand in doubte what these Holy Fathers meante by yâ— Manhed of Christe that departed from vs let S. Augustine open bothe his owne and their meaninges Thus he writeth in expresse plaine woordes touching the same Secundum Carnem quam Verbum assumpsit secundum id quòd de Virgine natus est Secundum id quòd à Iudaeis prehensus est quòd ligno confixus quòd de Cruce depositus quod linteis inuolutus quòd in sepulchro conditus quòd in Resurrectione manifestatus me non semper habebitis vobiscum According to the Fleash that the Woorde receiued according to that he was borne of the Virgine according to that he was taken of the Iewes According to that he was nailed to the Tree taken downe from the Crosse lapte in a sheete laide in the graue and was declared in his Resurrection these woordes are true Ye shal not haue me alwaies with you Likewise againe he saithe Dominus noster absentauit se Corpore ab omni Ecclesia Ascendit in Coelum Our Lord as touching his Body Absented him selfe from his whole Churche and Ascended into Heauen To be short if it be so hainous an errour in this case to vse these woordes Godhed and Manhed wherefore is not Fulgentius him selfe reproued for so often vsing the same These be his woordes Secundum Humanitatem suam Localiter erat in Terra Secundum Diuinitatem Coelum impleuit Terram Vera Humanitas Christi Localis es Vera Diuinitas semper immensa est Caro Christi absque dubitatione Localis est Diuinitas tamen eius vbique semper est Permansit in Christo Immensa Diuinitas Suscepta est ab eo Localis Humanitas Quomodò Ascendit in Coelum nisi quia Localis Verus est Homo Quomodò adest Fidelibus nifi quia idem Immensus Verus est Deus Christe according to his Manhoode was placed in Earthe but according to his Godhed he filled bothe Heauen and Earthe The Manhoode of Christe is conteined in Place The Godhed of Christe is Infinite and in al places The Pleash of Christe is doubtelesse in One place The Godhead of Christe is for euer in euery place There remained stil in Christe the Infinite Godhed There was receiued of him a Local Manhoode How Ascended he iâ—to Heauen sauing that he is very Man conteined in Place How is he present with the Faithful sauing that he is Infinite and True God Last of al he saithe Vnus idemque Christus Secundum Humanam Substantiam aberat Coelo cùm esset in Terra dereliquit Terram cùm Ascendisset in Coelum Christe being One accodinge to the Substance of his Manhoode was absent from Heauen when he was in Earthe and forsooke the Earthe when he Ascended into Heauen Thus many times M. Hardinge ye haue these woordes in one place togeather in Fulgentius him selfe The Godhed the Manhoode very God very Man The Fleash of Christe The Substance of the Manhoode And these â—e the selfe same woordes that you reproue Blotte out therefore for shame that vnaduised note in your Margine Looke better to your Booke Woorke hereafter more discretely and trouble not neither Pennemenne nor others without cause Otherwise the Penneman wil tel you what birde bare the feather that made you a Penne. The Apologie Cap. 1. Diuision 2. Wee beleeue that the Holy Ghost who is the thirde Person in the Holy Trinitie is very God not made not created not begotten but proceding from bothe the Father and the Sonne by a certaine meane vnknowen vnto man and vnspeakable and that it is his propertie to mollifie loften the hardnesse of mans hart when he is once receiued thereinto either by the holesome preaching of the Gospel or by any other waye that he doth geue men light and guide them vnto the knowledge of God to al way of Truthe to newnesse of the whole life and to euerlasting hope of Saluation M. Hardinge As wee acknowledge this article to be true and Catholike so we demaunde of these Defenders how they can proue the same Haue they either expresse Scripture for it or any of the first foure general Councels whiche be estemed of most Authoritie VVe are sure they haue not Therefore we do them to vnderstand and if they heare vs not we aduertise the Readers that feare God and loue his truth that al truthe necessarily to be beleued expressed in the Scripture and that other Councels be to be receiued besides the foure first which are allowed in England by Parlament The B. of Sarisburie Consider M. Hardinge notwithstanding ye euermore tel vs of Fathers Fathers yet how contrarie oftentimes ye are in iudgement to the same Fathers You saie that the Godhed of the Holy Ghost cannot be proued by expresse Woordes of the Scriptures and thereof ye saie ye are right sure Yet S. Augustine nothinge douteth but it may wel be proued by plaine Scriptures Thus he saith Spiritus Sanctus est Deus Vnde Petrus cùm dixisserâ— Ausus es mentiri Spiritui Sancto continuò sequutus adiunxit quid esse Spiritus Sanctus ait Non es mentitus Hominibus sed Deo The Holy Ghost is God Therefore Peter when he had saide vnto Ananias thou hast enterprised to lie to the Holy Ghost he followed readily and tolde him what was the Holy Ghost and saide Thou hast not sied vnto Man but vnto God Againe he saithe Ostendit Paulus Deum esse Spiritum Sanctum idò non esse Creaturam S. Paule sheweth vs that the Holy Ghost is God and therefore is no Creature Likewise againe he saith Ne quisquam Spiritum Sanctum negaret Deum continuò sequutus ait Glorificate portate Deum in Corpore vestro Least any man should denie that the Holy Ghost is God Paule added immediately these woordes Glorifie you therefore and beare God in your Body Here haue wée S. Augustines Yea and M. Hardinges Nay S. Augustine assureth vs he hath Scriptures to proue the Godhed of the Holy Ghoste M. Hardinge saithe wée
Coeterùm omnes Apostolorum Successores sunt Quid mihi profers Vnius Vrbis consuetudinem What doothe a Bishop sauâ—nge onely the Orderinge of Ministers but a Prieste maye doo the same Neither maye wee thinke that the Churche of Rome is one and the Churche of al the worlde biside is another Fraunce Englande Aphrica Persia Leuâ—nte India and al the Barbarous Nations woorship one Christe and keepe one rule of the Truthe If vvee seeke for Authoritie The whole worlde is greater then the Cittie of Rome Where so euer there be a Bishop be it at Eugubium be it at Rome be it at Constantinople be it at Rhegium be it at Alexandria be it at Tanais they are al of one woorthinesse they are al of one Bishoprike The Power of the Richesse and the basenesse of Pouertie maketh not a Bishop either Higher or Lower For they are al the Apostles Successours What bringe you me the Custome of Rome beinge but one Cittie Nowe if M. Hardinge wil steale awaie in the darke as his manner is and saie that S. Hierome spake onely of the Merite of Life or of the Office of Priesthoode sette some man telle him that this was no parte neither of the question mooued nor of the answeare of S. Hierome And S. Hierome in plaine and expresse woordes saithe Si Authoritas quaeritur If vvee seeke not for Merite of Life but for Authoritie in gouernmente therein the whole worlde is greatte then the Cittie of Rome M. Hardinge imagineth S. Hierome spake onely of I knowe no what but S. Hierome him selfe saithe he speaketh namely of Authoritie And whereas M. Hardinge is so highly offended with the chaunginge of this woorde Merite into this woorde Preeminence and saithe farther that these False Platers thought thereby to winne the game it maye please him to remember that howe so euer the game goe S. Hierome him selfe plainely plaide the selfe same game I meane that S. Hierome vsinge this woorde Merite without question meante Preeminence For thus he saithe Potentia Diuitiarum Paupertatis humilitas vel Sublimiorem vel Inferiorem Episcopum non facit The Power of Richesse and the basenesse of Pouertie maketh not a Bishop either Higher or Lower M. Hardinge mighte easily hauè seene that Higher and Lower perteine not to Merite of Life but to Preeminence Therefore lette him looke better vpon his Booke before he thus lightly condemne others for corruption I graunt it is true as M. Hardinge saithe This quarrel first beganne aboute a particulare Custome of the Churche of Rome where as the Draâ—ons Vaunted them selues and would be placed aboue the Priestes But here M. Hardinge as his manner is willingly dissembleth and suppresseth somewhat S. Augustine more liuely and fully expresseth the same For thereof he writeth thus Quidam qui nomen liabet Falcidij Duce stultitia Romanae Ciuitatis Iactantia Leuîtas Sacerdotibus Diaconos Presbyteris coaequare contendit One Falcidius Foolishnesse and the Pride of the Cittie of Rome leadinge him thereto laboureth to make the Deacons Equal with the Priestes This lewde disorder S. Hierome controlleth by the Examples of other Churches and saithe that therein the Authoritie of the whole worlde is greatter then the Authoritie of the Churche of Rome Of whiche also he seemeth to speake scornefully and with some disdeigne For thus he saithe Quid mihi profers Vnius Vrbis Consuerudinem What bringe you me the Custome of Rome beinge but One Cittie By whiche woordes it seemeth he made smal accoumpte of the Cittie of Rome But M. Hardinge saithe The Primates had Authoritie ouer other Inferiour Bishops I graunte they had so How be it thei had it by agreemente Custome But neither by Christe nor by Peter or Paule nor by any Kighte of Goddes Woorde S. Hierome saith Nouerint Episcopi se magis Consuetudine quà m Dispofitionis Dominicae Veritate Presbyteris esse Maiotes in coÌ„mune debere Ecclesiam â—egere Let Bishoppes vnderstande that they are aboue the Priestes rather of Custome theâ— of any Truthe or Right of Christes Institution and that they ought to rule the Churche al togeather And againe Idem ergo est Presbyter qui Episcopus Etantequam Diaboli instinctustudia in Religione fierent diceretur in populis Ego sum Pauli Ego Apollo Ego Cephae CoÌ„muni Presbyterorum Consilio Ecclesiae gubernabantur Therefore a Prieste and a Bishop are bothe one thinge And before that by the inflaiminge of the Diuel partes were taken in Religion and these woordes were vttered emonge the people I holde of Paule I holde of Apollo I holde of Peter the Churches were gouerned by the Common Aduise of the Priestes S. Augustine saithe Secundum honorum vocabula quae iam Ecclesiae vsus obtinuit Episcopatus Presbyterio maior est The office of a Bishop is aboue the office of a Prieste not by Authoritie of the Scriptuces but after the Names of Honour whiche the Custome of the Churche hath nowe obteined As for Pope Leo his owne Authoritie in his owne cause cannot be greate The Emperoure saithe Nemo debet sibiius dicere Noman maie minister Lowe vnto him selfe And it is noted thus in the Decrées Papa non debet esse Iudex in causa propria The Pope maie not be iudge in his owne cause It is wel knowen that the Pope hath sought for and claimed this Vniuersal Authoritie these many hundred yeeres Pope Innocentius was therefore reprooued of Pride and worldly Lordlinesse by the whole Councel of Aphrica Pope Bonifacius 2. condemned â— Augustine al the saide whole Councel of Aphrica called them al Heretiques and Schismatiques for the same and said they were al leadde by the Diuel Pope Zosimus to mainteine this claime corrupted the Holy Councel of Nice S. Hilarie and other Learned Bishoppes of France for vsurpinge sutche vnlawful Authoritie charged this same Pape Leo of whom we speake with Pride and Ambition But gentle Reader that thou maâ—ste the better vnderstande what credite thou oughtest to geue to this Pope Leo specially settinge foorthe his owne Authoritie I beséethe thée consider with what Maiestie of woordes and howe far aboue measure he auanceth the Authoritie of S. Peter These be his woordes Christus Petrum in Consortium Indiuiduae Vnitatis assumpsit Christe receiued Peter into the Companie of the Indiuisible Vnitie Authoritate Domini mei Petri Apostoli By the Authoritie not of Christe but of my Lorde Peter the Apostle Deo Inspirante Beatissimo Petro Apostolo By the Inspiration of God and of S. Peter the Apostle Deus à Petro velut à quodam Capite dona sua velut in Corpus omne diffudit God froÌ„ Peter as from the Heade hath powred cut his giftes into al the Body Nihil erit ligatum aut solutum nisi quod Petrus ligauerit aut soluerit There shal be nothinge bounde or loosed but that Peter shal binde or loose Nunc quoque Petrus pascit Oues
we maye gather of his woordes as he meaneth that a Prieste exerciseth not the right of any his owne proper power in remittinge sinnes so in the very place by you alleaged he saith the contrary to your Doctrine For the Right of loosinge and bindinge saieth he is graunted to Priestes onely and therefore the Churche chalengeth it rightly whiche hath true Priestes Lo he vseth the woorde of chalenge Againe in the same place he auoucheth that he whiche receiueth the Holy Ghoste whom Priestes receiue when they be Consecrated in the Sacrament of Order receiue also power to Loose and Binde Sinnes For prouse thereof he alleageth the Scripture Take ye the Holy Ghoste whole sinnes ye remitte they are remitted and whose sinnes ye reteine they are reteined And if you Defender were accustomed to make your humble ConfessioÌ„ and so to be assoiled you should heare some Ghostly Fathers saie to you after certaine other woordes Auctoritate mihi commissa ego te Absoluo c. The B. of Sarisburie In what sense the Prieste without hearinge Confessions maie be a Iudge wée haue sufficiently saide before Neither knowe I what fansie M. Hardinge can haue in so often rehearsal of one thinge With what woordes or coloure of Commission M. Hardinge can furnishe out his Authoritie it forceth not greately Verily without somme shew or countenance his credite would not holde In deede Hugo and Bernarde saie The Iudgemente of God foloweth the Iudgemente of man And Pope Iulius saithe Habet Sacrosancta Romana Ecclesia Potestatem singulari sibi Priuilegio Concessam Aperire Claudere ianuas Regni Coelestis quibus voluerit The Holy Churche of Rome hath Power grounted vnto her by Singulâ—re Priuilege to Open and to Shutte the gates of the Kingedome of Heauen to vvhom she listeth And Cardinal Cusanus saithe Haee Ligandi â—oluendi Potestas non minor est in Ecclesia quà m in Christo This Power of Bindinge and Loosing is no lesse in the Churche then it is in Christe But it is no greate wisedome to geue ouer mutche credite vnto them that so often haue deceiued vs. If theire Authoritie be so greate as they make it let them shewe the woordes of theire Commission The saieing of S. Ambrose is cleare and plaine Verbum Dei dimittit Peccata Sacerdos est Iudex Sacerdos quideÌ„ officium suum exhibet Sed nullius potestatis iura exercet The Woorde of God foregeeueth Sinnes The Prieste is the Judge The Prieste executeth his office But he exerciseth the right of no Povver And to this ende in an other place he allegeth the woordes of the Prophete Esai spoken in the person of God Ego sum ego sum qui deleo iniquitates tuas I am he I am he that put a waie thine iniquities And to laie more weight to S. Ambroses woordes S. Augustine saithe in like sense Officium Baptizandi Dominus concessit multis Potestatem verò Authoritatem in Baptismo remittendi peccata sibi Soli reseruauit Our Lorde hath graunted the office of Baptizinge vnto many but the Power and Authoritie in Baptisme to foregeeue Sinnes he hath reserued Onely to him selfe So saithe S. Ambrose Nostrum est onera remittere Illius est resuscitare Illius est educere de Sepulchro It is our parte to remoue the stone from the graue by Preachinge by Counsel and by Exhortation But it is the Lordes woorke to raise vp the deade It is the Lordes woorke to bring him from the pitte Likewise againe he saithe Neque Legatus neque nuntius sed ipse Dominus saluum fecit populum suum Solus remanet quia non potest hoc cuiquam hominum cum Christo esse commune vt peccata condonet Solius hoc munus est Christi qui tulit peccata mundi It is not the Embassadoure It is not the Messenger but the Lorde him selfe that hath saued his people The Lorde remaineth alone For noman can be partener vvith God in foregeeuinge of Sinnes This is Christes Onely office that hath taken awaie the sinnes of the World And yet is not the Priestes office voide of Power He hath Power and Commission to open the Wil of God and as S. Paule saith to speake vnto the people euen as in the Person of Christe So Tertullian saithe Dandi Baptismi ius habet Summus Sacerdos id est Episcopus The Chiefe Prieste that is to saie the Bishop hath Right and Power to geeue Baptisme But S. Augustine saithe Ministerium dedit seruis Potestatem sibi retinuit God gone the Ministerie of Remission of Sinnes vnto his Seruâ—untes But the Povver thereof he reteined to him selfe So when Christe sent out his Disciples to Preache the Gospel he gaue them Authoritie Power If M. Hardinge wil saie There is no Power or Authoritie in the Reading or Publishinge of Goddes Woorde his owne Doctour Hosius wil telle him that when the Bishop Ordereth a Reader euen after the manner of the Churche of Rome he saithe vnto him Habe Potestatem legendi Epistolas in Ecclesia Sancta Dei tam pro viuis quà m pro defunctis Haue thou Power to Reade the Epistles in the Holy Churche of God as wel for the quicke as for the Deade In deede this is a very special Power sutche as I trowe Christe and his Apostles neuer taught vs. Neither woulde I haue noted it in this place sauing that Hosius the profoundest Proctour of that side thought it a mater woorthe the notinge Sutche power therefore belongeth to Priestes and Ministers in the Churche of God But the Power of Geuinge Remission of Sinne belongeth to God alone and to none other If any man wil presume further S. Hierome saithe as it is alleged before He hath put on the proude looke of the Phariseis And saithe further that sutche Priestes and Bishoppes vnderstande not the Woordes of Christe For saithe he It is not the Iudgemente or Absolution of the Prieste but the Life of the Penitente that is regarded before God And therefore S. Augustine saith Inde nata sunt Schismata cùm homines dicunt Nos Sanctificamus immundos Nos Iustificamus impios nos petimus nos impetramus Hereof grow Schismes and Diuisions in the Churche when menne saie wee Sanctifie the vncleane wee Justifie the wicked wee desire wee obteine Howe he it here commeth in Richardus de Sancto Victore God wate with a ful colde distinction For thus he saithe Christus potuit Dimittere Peccara Nos vero ' non possumus Dimittere Peccata sed tantùm Remittere Peter Lombarde saithe mutche better Christus Sacerdotibus tribuit potestatem Ligandi Soluendi id est ostendendi hominibus Ligatos vel Solutos Christe hath geuen Power vnto Priestes to Binde and to Loose that is to saie to declare vnto menne whoe be Bounde whoe be Loose Sa saithe Bonauentura of the Priestes vnder the Lawe of Mases Mundare dicebantur quia mundatum ostendebant
setteth an other thinge that is Better Here M. Hardinge I beseeche you of your indifferente iudgement He that vseth your woordes and saithe as you saie They that liue in Matrimonie cannot please God Thei be Filthy Thei be Infidelles Vnto them nothing is cleane Theire vvhole Minde and Conscience is defiled He y◠saith Matrimonie is Vice Lecherie and Filthy Pleasure Saith he not Matrimonie is an euil thing Thus you say Thus you write These Woordes be apparente and allowed in you Bookes euen in those Bookes whereby ye woulde haue vs to Order and to directe our Liues Manners Briefely this is the Very Substance of your Doctrine in this behalfe Therefore euen by S. Augustines Iudgemente Your Doctrine is the Doctrine of Diuels And whereas ye would seeme not vtterly to condemne the state of Matrimonie but onely to sette Single Life before it as a Better thinge before a Good it maie please you to vnderstande that notwithstandinge a thinge in it selfe be Beste yet is it not therefore Vniuersally Beste for euery Man For notwithstanding Scarlet be the fairest of al Coloures and the Face the fairest parte of al the Body yet I reckē M. Hardinge to make your selfe faire ye woulde not haue your Face died in Scarlet Single Life for many causes is the Beste I graunte Yet is it not Beste for euery body but onely for him that hath the gifte of Chastitie and can with quiet minde vpright Conscience liue Single Otherwise Matrimonie is mutche better And therefore God hath leafte vs indifferently frée to bothe that who so euer cannot vse the One may chuse the other S. Paule saith Volo Omnes esse sicut meipsum I woulde euery man woulde liue Single as I doo But he addeth withal a Special Prouiso Vnusquisque Proprium donum habet à Deo alius autem sic Euery man hath his owne gifte of God One this an other that And therefore he saith further Although Single Life be the better state Yet who so euer is not continente let him Marrie Better it is to Marrie then to Burne Although otherwise he weigh Single Life before Marriage yet in this case he saith it is better to Marrie then to liue Single M. Hardinge hereto replieth They that haue Vowed haue loste this libertie and by S. Ambrose and S. Augustines Iudgemente maye not Marrie Hereof I haue partely spoken before partely shal haue occasion offered to saie more hereafter In the meane season wée are taught here by M. Hardinge to take S. Paules Woordes by the toppe and to turne them quite backwardes and thus to frame a Newe Rule of Life and to saie contrarie to S. Paule Melius est Vri quà m Nubere It is better to burne in Concupiscence then to Marrie Yet S. Augustine saithe euen of them that haue Vowed as it is before alleged Quae Nubere volunt ideò non Nubunt quia impunè non possant Meliùs Nuberēt quà m vrerentur id est quà m occulta flamma Concupiscentiae in ipsa Conscientia vastarentur They that haue a minde to Marrie and yet Marrie not bicause they cannot Marrie without reproche Better vvere it for them to Marrie then to Burne that is to saye then with the priuie flame of theire Coucupiscence to be wasted in theire Conscience Further M. Hardinge saithe This Order of Single Life was taken by the Apostles them selues And therefore saithe he it is not the Diuels but the Apostles Doctrine If this be true in déede then is this mater thorowly concluded But where was this Order taken by the Apostles By what Writinge by what Recorde by what Tradition maie it appeare Or how is it likely that the Apostles beinge Married Menne them selues would force other menne to liue Single I haue already shewed by Ignatius by Clemens by Eusebius and by S. Ambrose that the Apostles S. Iohn Onely excepted were al Married Clemens saith that Peter saw his owne Wife carried by y◠Officers to suffer deathe for Christes sake and cried vnto her comfortably by her Name O Wooman Remember the Lord. Ignatius S. Iohns Disciple saithè Opto Deo dignus inueniri sicut Petrus Paulus reliqui Apostoli qui Nuptijs fuerunt sociati qui non libidinis causa sed posteritatis surrogandae gratia Coniuges habuerunt I wishe to be founde meete for God as was Peter and Paule and the other Apostles that vvere Married and not for pleasure but for Posterities sake had VViues Chrysostome saithe Cur non ait Oportet Episcopum Angelum esse nulli humanae perturbationi vitióue subiectum Ne Ecclesiae negotia fructusque perirent Idcircò moderatam Virtutem proposuit non supremam illam atque Coelestem VVhy saithe not S. Paule A Bishop ought to be an Angel subiecte neither to any worldly affection nor to any Vice Leste the affaires and fruites of the Churche should perishe beinge without a Gouernoure Therefore he required of Bishoppes a moderate and a reasonable kinde of Vertue willinge them to be Husbandes of One Wife and not that other Vertue so High and so Heauenly that is to saye vtterly to liue vnmaried Againe he saithe Idcircò ait Vnius Vxoris Virum Ne nimis in angustum rem eam concluderet si exactissimam Virtutem experisset idcireò moderatiori admonitione maluit vti ne ex desperatione perfectae illius inueniendae Virtutis Ecclesiae sine Episcopis essent Therefore S. Paule saith Let a Bishop be the Husbande of One VVife Leste he shoulde shut vp the mater into too greate a straite if he had required that moste perfite puritie therefore he woulde rather vse a reasonable moderation or meane that a Bishop shoulde be the Husbande of One Wife Leste of despaire of findinge that excellencie of Vertue to liue Vnmarried the Churches shoulde be leafte without Bishoppes S. Paule saithe Touchinge Virgins I haue no commaundemente of the Lorde Better it is to Marrie then to burne Let a Bishop be the Husbande of One VVife Whiche laste woordes Pope Leo expoundeth thus Is Episcopus ordinetur quem Vnius Vxoris Virum fuisse aut esse Constiterit Let him be Consecrate a Bishop of whom it may wel appeare that either he is or hath benne the Husbande of One VVife S. Ambrose expoundinge these woordes of S. Paule Touchinge Virgins I haue no commaundemente of the Lord saith thus Si Doctor Gentium non habuit habere quis potuit If the Doctour of the Gentiles had no Commaundement of the Lorde touching Virgins what man els then coulde euer haue it Emonge the Rules whiche commonly are called the Apostles Canons it is written thus Episcopus aut Presbyter aut Diaconus Vxorem suā praetextu Religionis ne abijciat Aut si abiecerit à Communione segregetur si perseueret deponatur Let not either Bishop or Prieste or Deacon put awaie his Wife vnder coloure of Religion Or if he so doo let him be put from the Communion
Pambus and many other Holy men liuinge in VVildernesse without letters no reste ne quiet at their hartes Nay who had the like And whereas you saie that al thinges needeful for our Saluation be abundantly and fully cōprehended in the Scriptures this is also as false as sundry other partes of your Doctrine For if al thinges necessary to Saluation be conteined in the Scriptures then what so euer is not in them conteined the same is not necessarie If not necessarie why shoulde we be laden with vnnecessarie burdens Then awaie with al Traditions at a clappe be they neuer so Apostolike neuer so Auncient neuer so Healthful neuer so longe time in the Churche continued Remember you not what the moste renoumed Fathers haue written of the necessitie of Traditions Or if you remember them what thought you when you wrote thus Let Learned and Holy Basil be hearde in steede of many if not to reuoke you from your errour yet to discredite you and staye others in the truthe His woordes be these Of the doctrines whiche be preached in the Churche certaine we haue out of the Scripture written certaine we haue receiued in secrete Mistery by tradition of the Apostles whiche bothe be of equal force to Godlines Neither concerninge these any man gainesaieth be he of neuer so smal knowledge For if we goe about to reiect the customes that be not set foorth in writinge as beinge of litle regarde then shal we condemne those thinges also whiche we haue in the Gospel necessarie to Saluation Yea rather we shal bringe the preachinge of the Faithe but to a bare name For so they were taken for Heretikes whiche regarded not the solemne faste of Lente receiued at the Apostles as we reade in S. Augustine De Haer. ad Quoduultdeum cap. 53. and in the Councel of Gangra in an Epistle to the Bishops of Armenia Euen so they whiche denied the distinction of a Bishop and a Prieste were condemned of Heresie as we finde in S. Augustine in the Booke and Chapter aforesaide and in Epiphanius Lib. 3. Cap. 75. In the Councel of Constance the same is to be founde Againe if al thinges necessarie to Saluation be expressed in the Scriptures to what purpose saide S. Paule concerninge order and maner to be vsed at the celebration of the holy Sacramente Coetera cùm venero disponam As for other thinges I wil take Order for them when I come VVhat meaneth S. Iohn to saye Hauinge other thinges to write to you of I woulde not write them in Paper and inke for I truste to be with you and speake to you mouthe to mouthe To conclude muche that might be obiected in fewe woordes for breuities sake what saie you sir Defender shal we finde al thinges necessarie to Saluation in the Scripture Howe thinke you of the Scripture it selfe How knowe you this to be the Scripture How knowe ye the Gospel of Mathewe Marke Luke and Iohn to be theirs whose names they beare This can you not finde in al the Scripture and yet is the same necessary to be beleeued VVhat Scripture have you to admitte these and to refuse the Booke bearinge the name of Peter the Gospel of Thomas of Bartholome we of Nicodeme VVhy admitte you not the Prophetes that Basilides would to be allowed but onely the foure greate and the twelue lesser what auctoritie haue you to staie your selfe by concerninge these but onely that of the Churche for Scripture haue you none for proufe hereof Then hath not Scripture al thinges in it necessarie for a Christen man Is it not necessarie to beleeue the Sonne of God to be Homousion that is to saie of the same Substance with the Father whiche if you denie you restore the olde condemned Heresie of the Arians The same can you not finde in the Scripture VVhere in al the Bible finde you that God the Father is Ingenitus VVhere finde you that the Holy Ghoste proceedeth frō the Father and the Sonne that the blessed Virgin Marie continued in her Virginitie that suche as be Baptized of Heretikes oughte to be Baptized againe That in fantes ought to be Baptized That the Foure Bookes of the Gospels were written by Mathewe Marke Luke and Iohn by what Scripture can you prooue it To ende where finde you expressely in al the Scriptures three Persons to be one God The B. of Sarisburie Here to weighe downe the Authoritie of Goddes Holy Woorde M. Hardinge hath brought in a heape of ordinarie stale quarrelles Of the difference bitwéene Priestes and Bishoppes of Lente of the Communion Booke of the Homilies of the Order of Seruice and of the Perpetual Virginitie of Our Lady His whole drifte herein is to beare vs in hande that there is very litle or none Authoritie in the Scriptures and that the whole Credite and certainetie of our Faithe resteth onely in the Churche of Rome He seemeth to take it in scorne that the Woorde of God shoulde be called the Light Yet notwithstandinge the Prophete Dauid saithe Thy Woorde is a Lanterne to my feete And againe The Commaundement of the Lorde is Lightsome geeuing Light vnto the eies And Theophylacte saith Verbum Dei est Lucerna qua Fur deprehenditur The Woorde of God is the Candel whereby ther Theefe or false Teacher is espied Whereas M. Hardinge demaundeth of vs so pleasauntly what Scriptures we allowe and what wée reiecte he troubleth him selfe with an idle and a néedelesse question For we embrace and reuerence euery parcel and title of the Scriptures without exception not refusinge any parte thereof that hath benne allowed by the Ancient Learned Catholique Fathers of the Churche of God Neither doo wee so scornefully calle Goddes Holy Woorde a Nose of vvaxe a Shipmannes Hose or a Dead letter as sundrie of that side haue delited to cal it Touchinge the Booke of the Machabees wee saie nothinge but that we finde written by S. Hierome S. Augustine other Holy Fathers S. Hierome saithe Machabaeorum Libros legit quidem Ecclesia Sed eos inter Canonicas Scripturas non recipit In deede the Churche readeth the Bookes of the Machabees but shee receiueth them not emonge the Canonical allovved Scriptures Or Praier for y◠Dead wee shal haue place more conuenient to speake hereafter The place of S. Iames touchinge the Iustification of Faithe Woorkes is answeared before Neither doo wee discredite any parte either of the Authoritie or of the Doctrine of that whole Epistle notwithstandinge Eusebius saithe It was written by somme other and not by S. Iames. His woordes be these Istius Iacobi qui lustus Oblias vocabatur dicitur esse Epistola quae prima scribitur inter Canonicas Sciendum autem est illam Epistolam esse Spuriam The Opinion is that the Epistle whiche is reckened the firste emonge the Canonicalles is of this Iames whiche was called Iustus and Oblias But wee muste vnderstande that
aquam Petra praebente potati sunt They were vnder the Clowde and were drenched vvith Christe the Rocke geeuinge them water Likewise saithe Leo Mysteria pro temporum ratione variata sunt quum Fides qua viuimus nulla fuerit aetate diuersa The Sacramentes are astered accordinge to the diuersitie of the times But the Faithe vvhereby vvee liue in al ages vvas euer one Likewise S. Augustine Sacramenta illa fuerunt in Signis diuersa in rebus quae significabantur paria These thinges were Sacramentes in the outvvarde tokens diuerse but in the thinges tokened al one vvith ours M. Hardinge wil replie S. Augustine saithe Sacramenta Noui Testamenti dant Salutem The Sacramentes of the New Testament geeue Saluation But who can better expounde S. Augustines meaninge then S. Augustine him selfe He addeth immediately Cùm ergo iam teneas promissa quid quaeris promittentia Saluatorem Hoc dico teneas promissa non quòd iam acceperimus Viram aeternam Sed quòdiam Christus Venerit qui per Prophetas praenuntiabatur Wherefore seeinge thou haste the Promisses of the comminge of Christe already perfourmed what seekest thou the thinges that Promised the Saueoure I saie Thou haste the Promisses already perfourmed not for that wee haue alreadie receiued euerlastinge life but for that Christe is alreadie comme that was promised by the Prophetes Therefore when S. Augustine saithe Our Sacramentes geue Saluation his meaninge is this Our Sacramentes teache vs that Saluation is already comme into the World Thus S. Augustine saithe in an other place Illa fuerunt Promissiones rerum complendarum haec sunt indicia completarum The Sacramentes of the Olde Lawe were Promisses of sutche thinges as should afterv vard be accomplisshed Our Sacramentes of the Newe Lawe are takens that the same Promisses be already accomplisshed Thus the Holy Fathers saie The Sacramentes of the Newe Lawe vvorke Saluation bicause they teache vs that our Saluation is already wrought So Bonauentura saithe of the Sacramentes of the Olde Testamente Mundare dicebantur id est mundatum ostendebant They were saide to make a man cleane bicause they shevved or signified that a man vvas made cleane The Apologie Cap. 11. Diuision 1. And wee doo expressely pronounce that in the Lordes Supper there is Truely geuen vnto the Beleuinge the Body and Bloud of our Lorde the Fleashe of the Sonne of God whiche quickeneth our Soules the Meate that commeth from aboue y◠foode of Immortalitie or Grace Truth Life And the same Supper to be the communton of the Body and Bloud of Christe by the partaking whereof wee be reuiued streghtened and fedde vnto Immortalitie and whereby wee are Ioined Vnited Incorporate vnto Christe that wee maie abide in him and he in vs. M. Hardinge VVhat ye proncunce of this high Sacrament the wise and careful tenderers of their soules wil be right ware thereof Of you and suche as ye be because your Doctrine is but of a corner of the worlde in respect of the Vniuersal Churche hathe geuen vs a watche woorde Nolite credere beleeue them not In your the Lordes supper celebrated by the Ministers of your owne creation there is not geeuen the Body and Bloud of our Lorde neither to the beleuing nor to the vnbeleuinge For at the celebration of your schismatical supper no * consecration being done * nor Faithe of the Churche * not right intention had * nor Christes institution obserued what deliuer ye to your communicantes but * a peece of Breade and a * sippe of VVine Neither is it * your wil it be more or better At the supper of Our Lorde ministred in the Catholike Churche by Priestes rightly consecrated and as it hath ben accustomed in Christes Churche there is the true and whole Body of our Lorde and saueour geeuen and receiued be the receiuers beleuinge or not beleuinge For when Christe gaue this Sacrament to his Disciples at his last supper after that he had consecrated the same saieing take ye eate ye this is my Body Iudas the traitour as the * Fathers teache receiued his true Body nolesse then Peter Andrewe Iohn or Iames did though they to their saluation he to his damnation Now it is to be noted how this Defender in this long sentence affecteth a certaine holy as it were and solemne eloquence and vseth a religious amplification of Woordes to set foorth the sacrament as though he had a reuerent and a godly opinion of it whereas in dede he taketh it but for a poore signe or token as their Doctoure Zuinglius dothe But suche is their crafte to purchase them credite among the people Thus offer they to the vnlearned their faire cuppes ful of venym anointinge the brimmes with Honye of sweete and Holy woordes the rather to poison them Suche complainte maketh the graue Father S. Hilary againste the Arians of his time Ingerunt nobis primū nomina Veritaùs vt virus falsitatis introeat Bonum in Ore est vt de corde malum subeat Firste saithe he they thrust me foorthe woordes of truthe that the venym of falsehed mate enter in Good is in their mouthe that out from the harte maie euil proceede And among al these woordes hee meaneth the Arians confession of their faithe I heare no where by them saide Deum dei filium God the sonne of God Right so among al these faire woordes concerning the Sacramente we heare neuer a whit saide of the real presence of Christes Body Epiphanius noteth the like crafte in Arius and so doth S. Augustine in the Pelagians Nestorius likewise spake honorably in many places of Christe and his Mother But now here would he cal her 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is the Mother of God The Iewes also as we finde in the Gospell called our sauiour Iesus the Carpenters sonne confessed Mary to be his Mother Iames Ioseph Simon and Iude his brothers and that his sisters were among them by whom his Kinnes folke are to be vnderstanded but the sonne of God they would not acknowledge him nor in that degree honour him Better then to those Iewes can I not compare these Defenders who speake honorably of our Lordes Body and Bloud in their supper but that his Body is really that it is verely in the Sacrament of the aulter that wil not the Deuill who raigneth in their hartes suffer theire mouthes to vtter The B. of Sarisburie M. Hardinge telleth vs wée deliuer vnto the Faitheful nothing els but a péece of Breade and a slppe of Wine that wée haue neither Intention nor Consecration that our faire Cuppes be ful of Venime That our Supper is Schismatical that our Eloquence is Hypocritical that our Doctrine is Heretical that wée are like to the Pelagians to the Nestorians to the Arians and to the levves and that the Diuel raigneth in our hartes If the Truthe of God were euermore ioined with vaine speache then might M.
neuerthelesse passe vnder the general name of a Sacramente But thus wee saie It cannot be proued neither by the Scriptures nor by the Ancient Learned Fathers that this Number is so specially appointed and Consecrate to this pourpose or that there be neither moe nor lesse Sacramentes in the Churche but onely Seuen As for the Reasones that they of M. Hardinges side haue brought vs for proufe hereof they are too Childishe to be remembred For thus they saie The Booke in the Apocalyps hathe Seuen Seales The Seuen Angels there haue Seuen trumpettes Christe hath in his right hande Seuen starres Christ vvalketh in the middes of Seuen golden Candlesticks Zacharie savve Seuen eies vpon a stone There vvere Seuen Candlestickes in the Tabernacle Ergo saie they there muste needes be iuste Seuen Sacramentes in the Churche of God But vnto euery necessarie Sacramente of the Churche twoo thinges specially are required that is a Sensible outwarde Elemente and the Woorde of Institution And without either of these there is no Sacramente Therefore S. Augustine saithe Accedat Verbum ad Elementum fit Sacramentum Ioine the Woorde of Christes Institution vnto the sensible Creature or outwarde Elemente and thereof is made a Sacramente The Element or Creature in Baptisme is Water the Elementes or Creatures in Our Lordes Supper are Breade Wine The woordes of Institution are common and knowen The other fiue Sacramentes want either the Woorde or the Elemente or bothe togeather As for example Matrimonie Order and Penance haue the Woorde of God but they haue no outwarde Creature or Elemente Extreme Vnction and Confirmation haue neither VVoorde nor Elemente Therefore these fiue later in proper vse of speache are not taken for Sacramentes of the Churche For thus Alexander of Hales saithe Sacramentum Confirmationis vt est Sacramentum neque Dominus instituit neque Apostoli Sed postea institutum est in Concilio Meldensi The Sacramente of Confirmation as it is a Sacramente was not ordeined either by Christe or by the Apostles but afterwarde in the Councel of Melda So likewise Durandus saithe Matrimonium strictè proprié loquendo non est Sacramentum Matrimonie in dewe and proper kinde of speache is no Sacramente Nowe to that wée make accoumpte onely of Tvvo Sacramentes as instituted by Christe wherewith M. Hardinge findeth him selfe so mutche offended it maie please him to vnderstande that the Anciente Learned Fathers Irenaeus Iustinus Martyr Tertullian S. Ambrose Cyrillus Alexandrinus and others hauinge occasion to intreate of pourpose and specially hereof speake onely of Tvvo Sacramentes Baptisme and Our Lordes Supper and name none other S. Cyprian saithe Tunc demùm planè sanctificari esse Filij Dei possunt si vtroque Sacramento nascantur Then maie they be throughly Sanctified and become the Children of God if they be newe borne by both the Sacramentes S. Augustine saith Quaedam Pauca pro multis eademque factu facillima intellectu augustissima obseruatione castissima ipse Dominus Apostolica tradidit disciplina sicuti est Baptismi Sacramentum Celebratio Corporis Sanguinis Domini Our Lorde and his Apostles haue deliuered vnto vs a fevve Sacramentes in steede of many and the same in dooing moste easy in signification moste excellent in obseruation most reuerende as is the Sacrament of Baptisme and the Celebration of the Body and Bloude of Our Lorde Againe speakinge of Baptisme and the Supper he saithe thus Haec sunt Ecclesiae Gemina Sacramenta These be the Tvvoo Sacramentes of the Churche Paschasius saithe Sunt Sacramenta Christi in Ecclesia Catholica Baptismus Corpus Sanguis Domini These be the Sacramentes of Christe in the Catholique Churche Baptisme and the Body and Bloud of our Lorde To be short Cardinal Bessarion saithe Haec Duo Sola Sacramenta in Euangelijs manifestè tradita legimus Wee reade that these Onely tvvoo Sacramentes were deliuered to vs plainly in the Scriptures Here hath M. Hardinge in expresse woordes Bothe the Sacramentes and the tvvo sacramentes and the Onely tvvo Sacramentes of the Churche Iudge thou nowe therefore good Christian Reader what truthe thou maiste recken to be in him that saithe Beza and they of this side are manifestly founde liers Al these thinges notwithstanding the late pretensed Councel of Tridente with moste horrible threates and great Curses concludeth the contrarie Si quis dixerit Sacramenta Nouae Legis non fuisse omnia à Iesu Christo Domino nostro instituta aut esse Plura vel pauciora quà m septem aut etiam aliquod horum non esse veré propriè Sacramentum Anathema sit If any man shal saie that the Sacramentes of the Newe Lawe were not al ordeined of Our Lorde Jesus Christe or that there be fevver or moe then seuen or that any one of the same verily and in proper vse of speache is not a Sacramente accursed be he But ye saie Luther and the Germaines admitte three Sacramentes Baptisme the Lordes Supper and Penance And Philip Melancthon afterwarde founde out the fourthe O M. Hardinge what is it that thus enflameth your tongue to speake Vntruthe Yf it had pleased you to haue séene it Luther Melancthon plainely expressed theire owne meaninge and vtterly remoued al manner occasion of sutche cauilles Luther writeth thus Propriè ea visum est vocare Sacramenta quae annexis Signis promissa sunt Coetera quia Signis alligata non sunt nuda promissa sum Quò fit ut si rigidè loqui velimus tantùm duo sint in Ecclesia Dei Sacramenta Baptismus Panis cùm in his Solis institutum diuinitùs signum promissionem Remissionis Peccatorum videamus In Proper speache those wee cal Sacramentes whiche are promissed with signes annexed The reste that haue no Signes are bare promisses Wherefore speakinge hereof precisely and strictely there are Onely tvvo Sacramentes in the Churche of God Baptisme and the Breade for as mutche as in these Onely we finde bothe the Signe ordeined by God and also the Promisse of Remission of Sinnes Likewise Melancthon saithe He can wel cal Order a Sacrament so that it be knowen from Baptisme and the Supper whiche in Proper speache and verily be called Sacramentes The Apologie Cap. 11. Diuision 3. Wee saie that Baptisme is a Sacramente of the Remission of Sinnes of that wasshing which we haue in the Bloud of Christe and that no person whiche wil professe Christes name ought to be restreined or keapte backe therfrom no not the very Babes of Christians forsomutche as they be borne in sinne and doo perteine vnto the people of God M. Hardinge As ye acknowldege fewe Sacramentes so ye speake of them very slenderly Baptisme ye saie is a Sacramente of the remission of sinnes and of that wasshinge whiche wee haue in the Bloude of Christe Now whereas ye meane as within fewe lines ye declare by the name of a
propriè in renatis Peccatum sit sed quia ex Peccato est ad Peccatum inclinat Si quis autem contrarium senserit Anathema sit The Concupiscence whiche the Apostle S. Paule sommetime calleth Sinne this Holy Councel declareth that the Cathosique Churche neuer vnderstoode it to be called sinne for that it is so in deede and in Proper manner of Speache in them that be Baptized but bicause it is of Sinne and enclineth vs vnto Sinne. And if any man thinke the Contrarie accused be he Thus wée see that by the Decrée of this woorthy Couente S. Ambrose and S. Augustine other Holy Fathers that haue written the same are al accursed As for that M. Hardinge here toucheth as an errour defended by certaine I knowe not by whom that Baptisme géeueth not ful Remission of Sinne he maiâ— commaunde it home againe to Lâ—uaine emongest his felowes and ieine it with other of his and theirâ— Vanities For it is no parte nor portion of our Doctrine Wée Confesse and haue euermore taught that in the Sacramente of Baptisme by the Deathe and Bloude of Christe is géeuen Remission of al manner Sinnes and that not in halfe or in parte or by waie of Imagination or by fansie but ful whole and Perfite of al togeather so that nowe as S. Paule saithe There is no damnation vnto them that be in Christe Jesu Nowe iudge thou indifferently gentle Reader what Sprite forced M. Hardinge thus terribly to crie oute They Lie they studie to deceiue they seeke shiftes c. The Apologie Cap. 12. Diuision 1. Wee saie that Eucharistia that is to saie the Supper of the Lorde is a Sacramente that is an euident Representation of the Body and Bloude of Christe wherein is sette as it were before our eies the Deathe of Christe and his Resurrection and what so euer he did whilest he was in his Mortal Body to th ende wee maie geene him thankes for his Deathe and for our deliueraunce And that by the often receiuinge of this Sacramente wee maie daily renewe the remembraunce thereof to thintente wee beinge fedde with the Body and Bloude of Christe maie be brought into the hope of the Resurrection and of Euerlastinge Life and maie moste assuredly beleeue that as our bodies be fedde with Breade and Wine so our Soules be fedde with the Body and Bloude of Christe M. Hardinge Amonge al these gay woordes we heare not so mutche as one Syllable vttered whereby we may vnderstande that ye beleue the Very Body of Christe to be in deede Presente in the blessed Sacrament of the Aulter Ye confesse the Eucharistia whiche commonly ye cal the Supper of the Lorde to be a Sacramente and al that to be none other then an euident token of the Body and Bloud of Christe As for that ye adde to make the matter seme sommewhat of the Deathe of Christe and his Resurrection and his actes done in fleshe VVhat reason or scripture haue ye that a peece of Bread and a Cuppe of VVine for in your belefe more make ye not of this Sacramente can set them as it were before our eies Dothe not rather a faire Painted table set foorth the actes of our Sauiour before our eies more liuely and more expressely And be we not moued therewith to geue God thankes for his greate benefites as wel as if we haue Breade and VVine on a table But I praie you sithens al is but Breade and VVine after your teachinge howe shal we by eatinge and drinkinge thereof be fedde with the Body and Bloude of Christe Againe can we by Breade and VVine be brought into hope of the Resurrection and Euer lastinge life as ye saie And howe shal we by Eatinge of Breade and Drinking of VVine be assured that Christes Body and Bloude doth in like manner feede our soules as Breade and VVine feedeth our bodies Though your imagination be neuer so stronge yet by eatinge of that whiche is Breade onely and Drinkinge of that whiche is VVine onely we see not how your soules can be fedde with the True Body and Bloude of Christe no more then ye be at your common meales Verily when al your tale is tolde ye seme to saie nothinge els touchinge the eatinge of our Lordes Body but that the Body of Christe remaineth in Heauen and that we muste sende vp our soules thither to eate it there by a certaine Imagination whiche ye cal faithe For this is your Maister Caluines Doctrine By this Doctrine al standeth vppon your faithe your faithe doth al alone And he that beleueth in Christe so as ye teache eateth his Body and Drinketh his Bloude For by your Gospel to eate the Body is nothinge els but to beleue in Christe If this be true then is your Supper superfluous For declaration of the Truthe herein it is to be considered that when we speake of this blessed Sacramente we meane specially the thinge receiued to be the very Real Body of Christe not onely a Signe or Token of his Body Yet we thinke it necessarie the Doctrine of the Fathers be clerely taught whiche is that here is a Sacramente and the thinge of the Sacramente The Forme of Breade and VVine whiche is sene is the Sacramente that is to saie a Signe of the Holy thinge For a Sacramente besides the outwarde shape whiche it representeth to the senses causeth an other thinge to come into knowledge The thinge of this Sacramente is of two sortes the one in tho same conteined and signified the other signified but not conteined The firste is the Body of Christe borne of the Virgine Mary and his Bloude shed for our Redemption the Seconde is the Vnitie of the Churche in these that be predestinate called iustified and glorified VVhiche Churche is Christes Body mystical So that here are three distincte thinges vnderstanded The one is a Sacramente onely the other a Sacramente and the thinge the thirde the thinge and not a Sacramente The firste is the visible shape or Forme of Breade and VVine the seconde is the proper and very Fleashe and Bloude of Christe the thirde his Mystical Body And as there be two thinges of this Sacrament so be there also two meanes or waies of eating The one Sacramental after whiche bothe good and euil eate the true Body of Christe they to saluation these to damnation The other spiritual after whiche the good only do eate These Defenders as al other the Sacrament aries speakinge of these distinct thinges indistinctly cause confusion and deceiue the vnlearned readers In sutche a sense and meaninge the place commonly alleged out of S. Augustine as also many other the like maye wel be vnderstanded without preiudice of the Truthe of Christes Body in the Sacrament Vt quid paras dentem Venttem Crede manducasti To what pourpose makest thou ready teeth and bely Beleue and thou hast eaten Nowe these Defenders harpingâ—â—â—nâ—ly vpon this one
theire Forged Quodammodò corrupted the sounde and Catholique Doctrine of the Churche Woulde ye rather for the better facinge and colouringe of your Doctrine wée shoulde strike oute this Forged Quodammodò and amende it thus Qui manducat me Reipsa Miscetur mihi transelementatur in me Woulde ye haue vs to beléeue that wee are wholy and thorowly changed into Christes Body and that wée are made very Christe God and Man the same that was borne of the Virgine and nailed to the Crosse and that not Quodammodò after a sorte or by somme peculiare phrase of speache but Substantially Really Verily and in déede I recken your Doctrine is not fully so fonde S. Paule saithe Sumus alter alterius Membra VVee are Members one of an other Cyrillus saithe Nos inter nos vnimur Corporaliter Wee are Corporally vnited togeather emonge our selues S. Chrysostome saithe Si quis exuat impudicarum mulierum animas videbit malum Daemonem illis admixtum If a man wil open the Soules of Vnchaste or Filthy Wemen he shal see the Diuel tempered togeather and mingled with them And thinke you M. Hardinge that these and other like speaches of the Holy Fathers cannot stande without your Transubstantiation and Real Presence Or that the Godly be Substantially and in déede in theire Bodies ioined togeather Or that the Vngodly be verily vnited and mingled with the Diuel You might rather haue remembred that touchinge this vnspeakeable Vnitie bitwéene Christe and the Faitheful that is to saie bitwéene the Heade and the Body S. Cyprian writeth thus Nostra Christi Coniunctio nec miscet Personas nec vnit Substantias sed affectus consociat confoederat voluntates The Coniunction that is bitweene vs and Christe neither mingleth Personnes nor vniteth Substances but ioineth affections and knitteth vvilles Likewise saithe S. Cyril Initium fundamentum in Sanctificatione Christus est Per Fidem scilicet non aliter Hoc enim modo in nobis habitat The Beginninge and Fundation of our Holinesse is Christe By Faithe I meane and none othervvise For in this sorte Christe dwelleth in vs. Likewise Lyra one of your owns late Doctours In quantum per Sacramentum Eucharistiae unimur Deo viuimus Spiritualiter Nostra autem vnio apud ipsum est per Fidem Dilectionem So far foorth as wee are vnited vnto God by the Sacramente of Thankesgeeuinge wee liue Spiritually But the Vnion that is bitvveene him and vs is by Faithe and loue And expoundinge these woordes of S. Paule Qui adhaeret Deo vnus Spiritus est He that eleueth vnto God is one Sprite with God He saithe Vnus non secundum rem sed secundum affectionem One Sprite with God not One in deede or accordinge to the Truthe but One in Loue or accordinge to affection And yet somme what farther to remoue you from your fantaste of your Real Presence S. Chrysostome saithe as he is alleged before Dominum ipsum amplecteris cum illo commisceris subuectus Coniungeris Corpori illi quod sursum sedet in Coelis Thou embraceste the Lorde him selfe thou arte tempered with him and beinge carried vp by Faithe and affection thou arte ioined with that Body that fitteth in Heauen In like sense saithe Leo Christus ineffabili modi coepit esse Diuinitate Praesentior qui factus est Humanitate loginquior Christe by vnspeakable meanes beganne to be the neare to vs by his Diuinitie the further he is made from vs by his Humanitie I doubte not M. Harding but ye maye easily sée that hitherto your Real Presence is but weakely proued M. Hardinge Againe we maruel with what face ye dare allege Theophylacte for you who in moste euident woordes ouerthroweth your figuratiue tropical and energical Doctrine touchinge this blessed Sacramente For he saith vppon this sixthe Chapter of S. Iohn Marke wel that the Breade whiche is eaten of vs in the Mysteries is not onely a certaine Figure of our Lordes Fleash but the Fleash it selfe of our Lorde For he saide not the Breade that I shal geue is the Figure of Fleashe but it is my Fleashe For the Breade is with secrete woordes through the Mystical blessinge and comminge vppon of the Holy Ghoste changed into the Fleashe of our Lorde The B. of Sarisburie Theophylacte saithe The Breade is not onely a certaine Figure of our Lordes Fleashe but the Fleashe it selfe of our Lorde This Obiection in my Former Replie is many where 's answeared Wée graunte The Breade is not a bare or a naked Figure but by waie of Sacramente or Mysterie it is the Body of Christe it selfe So the Water of Baptisme is not an emptie Figure of the Bloude of Christe but it is Christes Bloude it selfe bicause it is the Sacramente of Christes Bloude And therefore S. Bernarde saithe Lauemur in Sanguine eius Let vs be wasshed not in Water but in the Bloude of Christe S. Augustine geueth this general Rule as I haue often reported In Sacramentis videndum est non quid sint sed quid Significent In Sacramentes wee muste consider not vvhat thei be in substāce nature but vvhat thei Signifie Tertullian saith Christus acceptum Panem Discipulis suis distributum Corpus suum illum Fecit dicēdo Hoc est Corpus meum hoc est Figura Corporis mei Christe hauing taken the Breade and hauinge deliuered the same to his Disciples Made it his Body saieinge This is my Body That it to saie This is a Figure of my Body And to appointe a corruptible Creature to this vse and to make it an effectual instrumente of sutche high and Hidden Mysteries it is not the Woorke of any mortal man but the onely Power and woorkinge of the Holy Ghoste as it shal farther appeare in the nexte Clause in mine answeare to the woordes of S. Ambrose beda saithe thus Panis Vini Creatura in Sacramentum Carnis Sāguinis Christi ineffabili Spiritus sanctificatione transfertur The Creature of Breade and Wine by the vnspeakeable Sanctification of the Holy Ghoste is changed not into the very Real Body and Bloude but into the Sacramente of the Body and Bloude of Christe M. Hardinge Neither Maketh S. Ambrose whiche also ye bringe in any better for you VVoulde God ye woulde admitte him for Vmpeere in this pointe Verily in the booke and chapter that ye referre vs vnto he disputeth as it were of pourpose againste you as though he foresawe the time when the Churche shoulde be troubled with the Heresie of Sacramentaries Tu fortè dicis c. Perhappes thou sayest My Breade is common But this Breade is Breade before the woordes of the Sacramentes so soone as consecration commeth of Breade is made the Fleashe of Christe Let vs then auouche this howe that whiche is Breade maye be the Body of Christe By Consecration Then with what woordes and speaches is consecration made Euen with those of our
Lorde Iesus For what so euer els is saide he meaneth at the Masse it is praisegeuinge to God and prayinge for the People for Kinges for the reste VVhen the Prieste commeth to the Consecration of the honorable Sacramente there he vseth not his owne woordes but the VVoordes of Christe Therefore it is the woorde of Christe that maketh the Sacramente VVhat woorde of Christe Soothely that same woorde whereby al thinges be made Our Lorde Commaunded and Heauen was made Our Lorde Commaunded and earthe was made Our Lorde Commaunded and the seas were made Our Lorde Commaunded euery Creature was engendred Seest thou then howe woorkeful is the woorde of Christe VVel then if there be so greate Power in the woorde of our Lorde Iesus that thinges beganne to be whiche were not howe mutche more is it woorkeful Vt sint quae erant in aliud commutentur That thinges be whiche were and be chaunged into an other thinge Here Sir Defender Constrewe me these wordes and what sense can you draw foorth of them but this If by the workinge Power of our Lordes woorde thinges haue a beinge whiche before were nothinge and had no beinge at al as Heauen Earthe and Seas howe mutche more Power hath it to woorke that thinges whiche were before and had a beinge nowe also be or haue a beinge but be changed into an other thinge in Aliud into a thinge of an other Substaunce For by this phrase is signified a Substantial chaunginge whiche aptly is called Transubstantiation And I praie you good Sir who saieth that the Elementes I meane Breade and VVine passe quite awaie and go to nothinge Though you so belie vs we saie not so God forbid VVe saie that after consecration they be But what Not theselsesame they were whereby the Former Substance is excluded but the Body and Bloude of our Lorde Againe in that we saye with S. Ambrose in aliud commutantur They be chaunged into an other thinge foloweth it not thereof good logike Ergo they be VVil not this argumente holde in Schole the verbe passiue beinge resolued Sunt commutata Ergo sunt For that whiche ceasseth to be or goeth to nothinge ye cannot properly saye of it that it is chaunged but rather that it is ended or perisheth Nowe syr I reporte me to euery man that hath any sense whether I maie not lawfully geue you the Menti as for manners sake I maye vse the Italian terme and chalenge you in plaine termes of a lye for vtteringe this vntruthe vppon that Holy Doctours S. Ambrose specially speakinge as you do in your Englishe Translation by your selfe allowed thus For what can be saide more plainely then that whiche Ambrose saithe Breade and VVine remaine stil the same they were before and yet are chaunged into an other thinge Zeale moueth me to saie beyonde the modestie of my natural disposition VVhat is iuggling what is lieing what is falshed what is falsefieinge what is wickednes of falsaries if this be not Neither is the saieinge wherewith this Defender belyeth S. Ambrose al onely false and contrary to the Catholike Faithe but also absurde vnreasonable and foolishe For if Breade and VVine remaine stil after Consecration the same they were before howe then are they chaunged into an other thinge The B. of Sarisburie Here M. Hardinge onlesse ye had made S. Ambrose a Prophete ye thought he coulde not so handesomely haue serued your tourne But what and of whom he prophesied and how far sawe before wée shal sée hereafter Verily if that he the Heresie that you imagine theÌ„ he néeded not greately any Sprite of Prophesie in that behalfe For he foretolde vs of no newe Heresie that was to comme but rather tolde vs of his owne Heresie that then was presente Doubtelesse the woordes that wee reprote are not ours they are this owne But S. Ambrose saithe The Omnipotente Povver of the VVoorde wherewith God made Heauen and Earthe the same Omnipotente Povver of the same woorde he vseth nowe in the Consecration of the Sacramente Therefore saithe M. Hardinge it muste néedes be geathered he meante Transubstantiation and Real Presence as if without these newe fantasies God coulde not be Omnipotente I maye wel answeare these menne as S. Ambrose vpon the like occasion sommetime answeared the wilful blindenesse of the Iewes Atramentum vident Spiritum Dei non vident They see the Inke of the Letter written but the Sprite of God they see not Euen so M. Hardinge and others of that side weigh the woordes of S. Ambrose but his sense and meaninge they weigh not Certainely God sheweth his Omnipotente Povver as wel in the Sacramente of Baptisme as in the Sacramente of Thankesgeuinge Here of I haue saide sommewhat as occasion was offered in my Former Replie to M. Harding Leo saithe thus Christus originem quam sumpsit in Vtero Virginis posuit in Fonte Baptismatis Dedit Aquae quod dedit Matri Christe laide in the Fonte of Baptisme the same beginninge that he tooke in the Virgins Wombe He gaue the same preeminence to the VVater that he gaue to his Mother Euen so Chrysostome Angeli qui adfuerunt in Baptismo tam inenarrabilis operis modum minime possunt enarrare Adfuerunt tantùm viderunt nihil tamen operati sunt Sed Pater tantùm Filius Spiritus Sanctus The Angels that were presente at the Baptisme are not hâ—ble to vtter the manner of that vnspeakeable VVoorke They were Presente onely and sawe but they did nothinge but onely the Father the Sonne and the Holy Ghoste Likewise he saithe Ex Spiritu sensibili Aqua omnia haec admirabilia humanam excedentia cogitationem exoriuntur Al these vvoonderful woorkes wrought in Baptisme so far excedinge the thought of man springe of the Sprite and of Sensible Water Thus the Holy Fathers vsed oftentimes to auance and to magnifie the Holy Mysteries the better to bringe theire Hearers to the déepe and inwarde consideration of the same and therefore as S. Augustine saithe Sacramenta tantae rei non nisi eiusdem rei vocabulo nuncuparunt They expressed the Sacramenta of so greate a thinge none otherwise then by the name of the same thinge So S. Paule saithe The Rocke vvas Christe So an other saithe as I haue otherwheres alleged The Oile is Christe and an other Manna erat Christus qui descendit de Coelo The Manna that rained in the Wildernesse vvas Christe that came downe from Heauen So saithe S. Chrysostome reportinge the storie of Dauid Accipiens Aquam allatam bibere noluit Sed semetipsum reprehendit Domino eam libauit Non enim Aqua erat sed Sanguis Dauid receiuinge of the VVater that his menne had gotten with greate daunger from the middes of theire enimies woulde not drinke of it But founde faulte with him selfe and powred it out vnto the Lorde For it vvas not VVater but Bloude I beseche thée good Christian
Reader marke wel these Woordes The storie is cleare It was in deede onely a Cuppe of Water and nothinge els Yet Chrysostome saith It vvas Bloude It vvas no VVater In those dayes it was no daunger thus to saie The people was instructed and wel acquainted with this phrase or manner of speache and knewe the meaninge They were taught that the Rocke the Oile and the Manna in the Wildernesse were onely Sacramentes of Christe and that notwithstandinge they were called by thy name of Christe yet in déede and in Substance they were not Christe Therefore I maye answeare M. Hardinge herein as S. Augustine sommetime answeared the Pelagian Heretiques Vobis Pelagianis nondum litigantibus securiùs loquebantur Patres de his Articulis Before that you Pelagians beganne to quarrel the Fathers and Doctours spake without feare and freely of these Articles Athanasius saithe of the Arian Heretiques Incorporalia Corporaliter excipientes quae probè dicta erant interpretationibus deprauauerunt Takinge Spiritual thinges in a Corporal or Fleashely meaninge as doothe M. Hardinge and other his felowes by theire interpretations they haue depraued the thinges that were rightly spoken S. Ambrose saithe of the Breads and the Wine Sunt quae erant in aliud mutantur They remaine the same that they vvere and are changed into an other thinge Nowe is the filde woonne M. Hardinge bloweth a Maigne Triumphe Here saithe he Sir Defender Construe me these VVoordes Soothely good Reader I distruste not greately but this poore Defender might easily Construe these VVordes were he neuer so simple a clerke The Natural Creatures of the Breade and Wine in the Supper of our Lord saith S. Ambrose remaine stil in Substance as they were before yet are they changed into an other thinge that is to saie they are made the Sacramente of the Body and Bloude of Christe whiche before they were not Notwithstandinge this shorte Construction beinge cleare and plaine maye séeme sufficient yet for that M. Hardinge so déepely apposeth vs and willeth vs to Construe him these VVordes wée wil bothe Construe and Pars them too for his pleasure Therefore to warrante our former Construction S. Augustine saithe thus Accedat Verbum ad Elementum fit Sacramentum Let the VVorde be added to the Elemente or outwarde Creature and it is made a Sacramente that is to saie an other thinge Againe he saithe Sacramenta sunt Signa rerum Aliud existentia Aliud Significantia Sacramentes are Signes or Tokens of thinges beinge by Substance One thinge and Signifieinge an other thinge So saithe Chrysostome of the Water of Baptisme Cùm hoc Elementum acceperit Spiritum Sanctum fit Sacramentum Et iam non erit Aqua Potationis sed Sanctificationis Non erit Aqua communis sed Refectionis When this Creature of Water hath receiued the Holy Ghoste it is made a Sacramente and nowe it is not Water to drinke but water to Sanctifie Not common Water but Water to Refreshe Thus the Elemente or outwarde Creature bothe remaineth and is changed It remaineth in proper plaine kinde of speache It is changed vnproperly that is to saie by the waie of a Sacramente or a Mysterie So M. Hardinges owne Glose saithe vpon the Decrées Coeleste Sacramentum dicitur Corpus Christi sed Impropriè Vnde dicitur Suo modo Non rei veritate sed Significante Mysterio vt sit sensus Vocatur Corpus Christi id est Significat Corpus Christi The Heauenly Sacramente is called the Body of Christe but vnproperly that is to saie not in plaine and simple manner of speache Therefore S. Augustine saithe It is so called after a sorte that is not in truthe of mater but by a Mysterie signifieinge that the sense maie be this It is called the Body of Christe that is to saie It signifieth the Body of Christe So saithe S. Augustine De Signis differens hoc dico Ne quis in eis attendat quòd sunt sed potiùs quòd Signa sunt id est quòd Significant Intreatinge of Signes or Sacramentes thus I saie Lette noman consider in them that thei be in Substance but rather that they be Signes that is to saie that thei Signifie somme other thinge In this sense meaninge S. Augustine saithe againe Dominus ait Ipse Iohannes est Elias Iohannes autem ipse ait Ego non sum Elias Rectè ergo Iohannes propriè respondit Nam Dominus Figuratè Our Lorde saide of Iohn the Baptiste This is Elias But Iohn him selfe saithe I am not Elias Therefore Iohn answeared wel in plaine manner of vvoordes For our Lorde spake in a Figure Thus in sundrie sortes of speache Iohn is Elias and the same Iohn is not Elian and bothe are true But what better expositoure of S. Ambrose can we finde then S. Ambrose him selfe I truste M. Hardinge wil not saie that so Holy a Father was a falsifier and a lier specially in declaringe his owne minde Thus therefore he saithe Ante Benedictionem Verborum Coelestium alia species nominatur post Consecrationem Corpus Christi Significatur In comedendo potando Carnem Sanguinem quae pro nobis oblata sunt Significamus In Similitudinem accipis Sacramentum Est Figura Corporis Sanguinis Domini Similitudinem pretiosi Sanguinis bibis Before the Blessinge of the Heauenly woordes it is called an other Kinde After the woordes of Consecration the Body of Christe is Signified In Eatinge and Drinkinge wee Signifie the Body and Bloude that were offered for vs. Thou receiuest the Sacramente for a Similitude or for a likenesse It is a Figure of the Body and Bloude of our Lorde Thou drinkest the likenesse of the pretious Bloude Thus like fourme of woordes the same S. Ambrose vseth of the Sacramente of Baptisme Vidisti Aquam Sed non omnis Aqua sanat Sed Aqua sanat quae habet Gratiam Dei. Aliud est Elementum Aliud Consecratio Haste thou seene the VVater But of VVater healeth not But that VVater healeth that hath the Grace of God The Elemente or Creature of Water One thinge and the Consecration is an other thinge Thus the Breade remaineth and thus it is changed It remaineth in Substance but it is changed in Mysterie But M. Hardinge heauily presseth these Woordes Mutantur in Aliud that is saithe he into a thinge of an other Substance For by this phrase is signified a Substantial changinge whiche aptely is called Transubstantiation I will not here vse your courteous eloquence M. Hardinge nor saie vnto you as you saie to others I praie you good Sir but thus I saie I praie you M. Hardinge who gaue you this rule who taught you this Lesson De Coelo est an ex Hominibus Came it from Heauen or is it of Menne Haue the Holy Fathers thus taught you or is it onely you owne fantasie What Grammar What Logique What Philosophie What Diuinitie euer tolde you that Aliud euermore signifieth a
woordes Cibus iuxta id quod habet materiale This is Forges stuffe This is Homble and shameful corruption to deceiue the ignorante He that knâ—we not M. Hardinges modestie and manner of writinge woulde thinke these Tragical termes shoulde beare somme weight For sober menne seldome vse thus to crie without somme cause Touchinge these woordes Cibus Panis Materiale Materia if there be any thinge that maie mislike him it shal be laweful for him to refourme the same to vse either the one woorde or the other at his pleasure Wee stande onely vpon the Substance of mater and seeke no sutche wanton aduantages by shifte of woordes Neuerthelesse Origen him selfe as it appeareth was not so dangerous in the case For whereas M. Hardinge so sharply ouerlooketh vs for once vsinge this woorde Panis in steede of Cibus Origen him selfe vseth the same woorde Panis Seuen times togeather in the selfe same place without reproufe Like as S. Paule also fiue times in one place calleth it Panis And S. Cyril calleth the portions thereof fragmenta Panis peeces of Breade And yet were none of these euer condemned therefore as Corrupters and Falsifiers But I beséeche you M. Hardinge if this woorde Cibus Meate whiche Origen vseth and you séeme to allowe were not Breade what kinde of Meate then wil you cal it Pleashe Fishe or Fruite I trowe it was not You safe Origen meante thereby your Fourmes and Accidentes and Shevves of Breade Nowe verily this was but a quaisy Meate and I marueil that euer any wise man woulde cal it Meate Irenaeus saithe Of the same Meate is increased and consisteth the Substance of Our Fleashe And Rabanus saithe Sacramentum in alimentum Corporis redigitur The Sacramente whiche is the Breade is turned into Our Bodily nourishemente Touchinge the other fowle faulte M. Hardinge saithe his Accidentes and Qualities be thinges Material but the Mater it selfe he saithe they be not But where learned he this strange Doctrine What Diuine what Philosopher what Logician what Sophister what wise man euer taught him thus to saie Certainely Accidentes and Qualities be Accidentales Formae and in the Scholes are called thinges Formal whiche are as farre from thinges Material as Fire from Water Notwithstanding these menne haue power to make of Accidentes Substance Of Fourmes Maters Of thinges Formal thinges Material and of one contrarie to make another al this onely of them selues without any manner other Authoritie M. Hardinge saithe that the Meate whereof Origen speaketh is a Material for this is the Light and clearenesse of his Eloquence but not Materia and by this pretie distinction he thinketh the whole mater is fully discharged And emongste the ignorante that cannot iudge perhaps he maie seeme to saie somewhat But Origen him selfe that beste vnderstoode his owne meaninge calleth the same Meate in the same place by expresse and plaine woordes not onely a thinge Material but also the very Mater of Breade it selfe His woordes be these Nec Materia Panis sed super illum dictus sermo est qui prodest non indignè Domino comedenti It is not the Mater of the Breade but the woorde spoken ouer it that profiteth him that Eateth not vnwoorthily for the Lorde Nowe Iudge thou indifferently Gentle Reader how iust causes M. Hardinge had to moue these Tragedies Further he saithe It liked our filthy Sprite with vile woordes to bringe the Holy Mysteries into contempte and therein doo the Diuel great seruice O M. Hardinge some other speache would better become a man of your grauitie Sutche liquoure seldome floweth from the Sprite of God We neither encrease or diminishe nor any waie alter the woordes of Origen but laie them foorth plainely and simply as we finde them For thus he writeth Ille Cibus qui sanctificatur per VerbuÌ„ Dei per Obsecrationem iuxta id quod habet Materiale in Ventram abit in secessum eijcitur Coeterùm iuxta precationeÌ„ quae illi accessit pro portione Fidei fit vtilis The Meate that is Sanctified by the Woord of God and by Praier according to that Material parte that is in it passeth into the belly and so foorth into the Priuie c. If there be any Filthinesse or Villanie herein it is this Ancient Fathers whom ye ought not so vncourteously to reuile for Vncleanenesse of Sprite it is not ours Howe be it this is not Origens onely Iudgemente but the general and agréeable Doctrine of al others the Catholique Fathers And to allege one in stéede of many S. Augustine saithe as he is before alleged Si ad res ipsas quibus Sacramenta tractantur animum conferamus quis nesciat eas esse corruptibiles Si ad id quod per illas res agitur quis non videat non posse corrumpi If wee consider the thinges them selues wherein the Sacramentes be Ministred who knoweth not that they be thinges corruptible But if wee consider the thinge that is wrought thereby who seethe not that it cannot be corrupted The Holy Fathers speake not thus of Christes Body but of the Breade whiche is the Sacramente of Christes Body So saithe S. Ambrose Non iste Panis qui vadit in Corpus sed Panis Vitae Aeternae qui animae nostra Substantiam fulcit The Breade that I meane is not this Breade of the Sacramente that passeth into the Body but the Breade of Euerlastinge Life that maineteineth the Substance of the Soule Nowe if there were sutche filthinesse as you haue imagined in the Holy Learned Bishoppes and Doctours of the Churche for vtteringe these and other like woordes of the corruptible Creatures of Breade and Wine what cleane Sprite then is there in them that speake so filthily of Christes Body it selfe beinge nowe Vncorruptible and Glorious at the Right Hande of the Father Hereof I had occasion to speake sommewhat in my Former Replie Alexander of Hales saithe Quidam dicunt vbicunque ponantur Species siue in mundo loco siue in immundo siue in Ventre Muris ibi est Corpus Christi Somme saie where so euer the Fourmes or Accidentes be laide whether the place be cleane or vncleane yea though it be in the Mouses belly yet there is the Body of christe Againe he saithe Si Canis vel Porcus deglutiret Hostiam Consecratam integram non video quare Corpus Domini non simul traijceretur in ventrem Canis vel Porci If a Dogge or Hogge shoulde swallowe downe the Hoste Consecrate beinge whole I see no cause to the contrarie but the Body of Christe maie passe withal into the belly of the Dogge or of the Hogge Likewise your owne Clemens whom ye so often cal the Apostles Felowe writeth thus Ne Murium stercora inter fragmenta Dominicae Portionis appareant Let not Mise dounge be founde emong the fragmentes or peecces of the Lordes Portion Hée meaneth the Sacramente Your owne Catholique allowed Glose saith Corpus Christi potest euomi The Body
of Christe maie be vomited vp againe It abhorreth my harte to vtter these woordes They be so horrible and ful of Filthe Yet this M. Hardinge is your owne Doctrine This is your Sprite This is it that ye haue so longe maineteined with Fire and Swerde By sutche vncleane and vnciuile speache ye bringe Christes Body it selfe into contempte and lothesomenesse in the hartes of the people But that you maie the better see the consente certaintie of your owne Doctrine whereas you are wel contente to expounde these woordes of Origen as vndoubtedly spoken of the Sacramente of Christes Body your Instructer and Maister Doctour Gardiner telleth you that the same woordes perteine nothing at al vnto the Sacramente And yet vnto what thinge els they shoulde perteine it séemethe by the doubtefulnesse of his answeare he was neuer wel resolued His woordes be these Non de Eucharistia loquitur Origenes sed de Pane sanctificato per Verbū Dei Orationē quem communiter manducamus vel de eo qui solebat dari Catechumenis de quo Augustinus Origen speaketh not these woordes of the Sacramente but either of the Breade that is sanctified by Our Lordes woorde and by Praier whiche VVee commonly vse to Eate or els hee speakethe of the Breade that was geeuen to the Nouices called Catechumeni VVhereof S. Augustine speaketh If this tale be true then is yours Vntrue M. Hardinge and al your longe Commentarie of Fourmes and Accidentes is but in vaine It were good ye tooke a daie that ye maie be better agreed vpon that ye tel vs. And whereas to shift the mater ye put your poore Spiritual Fourmes and Holy Accidentes to al the paines to passe into y◠belly so foorth into the draught and auouche the same in sutche sober wise as if ye partely vnderstoode what ye saide it maie please you to vnderstand that by the Iudgemente of your owne Schoolefelowes the Canonistes ye are fowly deceiued For thus they determine y◠mater quite against you Species illae alijs cibis non permiscentur Non enim in stomachum descendunt quare per secessum non emittuntur These Fourmes or Accidentes are not mingled with other meates For they goe not dovvne into the stomake and therefore they passe not into the Priuie Heareby it maie appeare that either the Glose or M. Hardinge is in errour But the Glose is allowed and coumpted Catholique therefore the errour muste be M. Hardinges How be it to saie the truthe M. Hardinge and his Glose too are bothe in errour The Apologie Or that whiche Christe him selfe saide not onely after the Blessinge of the Cuppe but also after he had Ministred the Communion I wil drinke nomore of this Fruite of the Vine It is wel knowen that the Fruite of the Vine is Wine and not Bloude M. Hardinge Christe saie they him selfe saide not only after the blessing of the Cuppe but after he had Ministred the Communion I wil drinke nomore of this Fruite of the Vine Hereunto they adde of theire owne heades It is wel knowen that the Fruite of the Vine is VVine and not Bloude By this they woulde signifie that in the Chalice we haue not Christes Bloude as him selfe saide but mere VVine as againste Christe they labour to perswade But we saie that those woordes I wil not drinke from hence foorthe of this generation of the Vine either were spoken only before the communion or only after or in bothe times If they were spoken before the Communion whiche opinion is the more probable it is very clerly proued by them that wine remaineth not as it shal hereafter be deduced For these causes it maie wel be saide that we shoulde rather folowe the order of Luke who witnesseth that Christe spake these woordes before his maundie * then Mathewe and Marke who tel it as spoken after Secondly the order of Luke is confirmed by the circumstance of the thinges that he describeth more then the other Euangelistes Nowe because in the Chalice of the Olde Lawe there was certainely not Bloude but VVine whereas Christe teacheth that in his Chalice his owne Bloude is * conteined let ▪ he discrete Reader iudge whether we muste not rather thinke that these woordes of Christe ▪ I wil not from hencefoorthe drinke of this generation of the Vine do not rather perteine to the Cuppe of the Olde Lawe as Luke placeth them then to the Chalice of Christe after the Consecration whereof Mathewe and Marke reherse them Fourthly and lasily when Mathe we and Marke reherse that Christe saide he would not from hencefoorthe drinke of that generation of the Vine they bothe in muche like sorte of speakinge adde thereunto these woordes whiche in the Apologie were guilfully lefte out Vntil that daie when I wil drinke it Newe with you in the Kingedome of God my Father If Christe speake of a Newe drinkinge whiche is to come by likelyhoode the drinke paste is Olde VVhat exclamation would be sufficient to expresse that in this weighty point of Saluation our Englishe Cleregie are content to blinde the people the right worshipful yea the Honorable of our Countrie in so vile a sorte that after many Fathers woordes misreported and wrongfully wrested they doubte not to attempt the same in Christes owne saieinges and in those saieinges of his whiche euidently proue the contrarie But nowe let vs graunt of our free liberalitie contrarie to so many good and stronge reason◠that Christe saide after consecration I wil not from hencefoorthe drinke of this generation of the Vine vntil the Kingedome of God come Then it muste be further vnderstanded that the Kingedom of God is taken in Scripture sommetime for the presente state of the Churche after Christes resurrection in this wòrlde accordinge to that is saide oftentimes in Scripture The Kingedome of God draweth nigh sommetimes also for the ioye of Heauen as when Christe saithe I dispose for you a Kingedome as my Father hathe disposed for me that ye may eate and drinke at my table c. Now if we take these woordes of Christe spoken before Consecration it is not vnconuenient to vnderstand them of either of bothe Kingedomes that is to saie of the Kingedome of Resurrection or of Glorie as CHRYsostome and other do witnesse because bothe were to come at that time But if we take them spoken after consecration as we rather vpon confidence of the truthe then for necessitie at this time do graunt then these woordes Vntil the Kingdome of God come are to be meant only of the Kingedome of Glorie For these holy Mysteries belong to the Kingdome of Christes Resurrection and Ascension Neither were they practized by the Apostles in the Churche of Christe vntil the Holy Ghoste came downe vpon them And so the newnes of it there is fruition of it not vnder the fourmes of Breade and VVine as we haue it nowe but face to face without al
Christus est Cibus noster quo nihil dulcius Sed si quis habeat Palatum sanum in Corde Christe him selfe is oure Meate then whiche there is nothinge more sauerie so that a man haue a sounde taste in his Harte Againe he saithe Dominus dixit se Panem qui de Coelo descendit hortans vt Credamus in eum Credere enim in eum hoc est Manducare Panem viuum Qui Credit in eum Manducat Inuisibiliter Saginatur quia Inuisibiliter renascitur Infans Intus est Nouus Intus est vbi nouellatur ibi satiatur Our Lorde called him selfe the Breade that came from Heauen exhortinge vs to Beleue in him For to Beleue in him that is to Eate the Breade of Life He Eateth that Beleeueth in him He is fedde Inuisibly bicause he is newe borne Inuisibly In wardely he is an Infante Inwardely he is Newe Where he is renewed there is he filled So saithe Eusebius Emissenus as he is alleged by Gratian Cùm ad Reuerendum Altare Coelestibus Cibis satiandus accedis Sacrum Dei tui Corpus Sanguinem respice Honora Mirare Mente Continge Cordis Manu Suscipe maximè haustu Interiori assume VVhen thou commest vnto the Reuerende Aultare or Communion Table to be Fedde with the Heauenly Meates beholde the Holy Body and Bloude of thy God Honoure it Woonder at it Touche it not with thy Bodily Mouthe but vvith thy Minde Receiue it not with thy Bodily Hande but vvith the Hande of thy Harte and specially take it with thy Inner taste Therefore S. Augustine saithe Quisquis cum Fide timore Verbum Dei audis consolatur te Fractio Panis Absentia Domini non est Absens Habeto Fidem tecum est quem non vides Ideò Dominus absentauit se Corpore ab omni Ecclesia Ascendit in Coelum vt Fides aedificetur VVho so euer thou be that with Faithe and Feare hearest the Woorde of God the Breakinge of Breade doothe Comforte thee The Absence of our Lorde is not Absente Haue thou Faithe and he whom thou seest not is with thee Therefore our Lorde as touchinge his Body hath Absented him selfe from al his Churche and is Ascended into Heauen that our Faithe maie be edified And in this selfe same place that M. Hardinge saithe maketh so litle for our purpose he saithe thus Quomodo tenebo Absentem Quomodo in Coelum manum mittam vt ibi sendentem teneam Fidem mitte Tenuisti Parentes tui tenuerunt Carne Tu tene Corde Quoniam Christus Absens etiam praesens est Nisi Praesens esset à nobis ipsis teneri non posset Sed quoniam verum est quod ait Ecce ego vobiscum sum vsque ad Consummationem Saeculi abijt hîc est Et redijt nos non deseruit Corpus enim suum intulit Coelo Maiestatem autem non abstulit Mundo How shal I holde Christe beinge Absent Howe shal I thruste my hande into Heauen that I maie holde him Sittinge there Sende vp thy Faithe and thou holdest him Thy Fathers the Iewes helde him in Fleashe Holde him thou in thy Harte For Christe beinge Absente is also Presente Onlesse he were Presente wee coulde not holde him But for as mutche as it is true that he saithe Beholde I am with you vntil the ende of the worlde Therefore he is gonne and yet is here He is comme againe and hath not forsaken vs. For he hath auanced his Body into Heauen but he hath not vvithdravven his Maiestie from the VVorlde Al these thinges wel considered whereas M. Hardinge in the ende concludeth with these woordes Thus al your Allegations and Reasons concerninge this mater be sufficiently answeared I doubte not but his discrete and indifferent Reader wil thinke He crewe longe before it was daie The Apologie Cap. 15. Diuision 1. Neither can wee awaie in our Churches with these Shewes and sales and markettes of Masses nor with the carrieinge about and woorshippinge of the Breade nor with sutche other Idolatrous and Blasphemous fondnesse whiche none of them can proue that Christe or his Apostles euer ordeined or leafte vnto vs. And wee iustly blame the Bishoppes of Rome who without the Woorde of God without the Authoritie of the Holy Fathers without any example of Antiquitie after a Newe guise doo not onely set before the People the Sacramental Breade to be woorshipped as God but doo also carrie the same aboute vpon an amblinge Palfraie whither so euer them selues iourney in sutche sorte as in olde times the Persians fier and the Reliques of the Goddesse Isis were solemnely carried aboute in Procession and haue brought the Sacramentes of Christe to be vsed now as a stage plaie and a solemne sighte to the ende that Mennes eies should be fedde with nothinge els but with madde gasinges foolishe gaudes in the selfe same mater wherein the Death of Christe ought diligently to be beaten into our Hartes and wherein also the Mysteries of our Redemption ought with al Holinesse and reuerence to be executed M. Hardinge The thinges whiche it liketh your Sathanical Sprite with blasphemous woordes to dishonour and bringe in contempt are suche as neither your praises can make more praise woorthy nor your vpbraidinges any whit of lesse estimation If any by the stinkinge breath of your vile woordes be puffed awaie into your damned side who so euer they be they shewe them selues to haue benne light chaffe not sounde wheate Yet for good folkes sake that I maie leaue your vile eloquence to your selues and answeare the matter by you railed at and belied and other wise not disproued I praie you good Sirs the Masse beinge the highest and moste Honorable Seruice that is donne to God in his Churche whiche other wheres beinge already proued I treate not of in this place why should not a Prieste by whome onely it is and maie be donne beinge called to that vocation and state of life haue rewarde and liuinge for it Raile againste the Masse and Priestes seruinge at the Aulter of God vntil your tongues burne in your head in Hell Fire VVe tell you Priestes of the Catholike Churche sell not the Fruite and Merite of Christes Bloude offered in the Masse but onely for their ministerie and labour require necessarie sustenance of Life But for your Defence yee confesse that ye cannot awaie with the carryinge about and woorshippinge of Breade No more cannot wee To whose charge laye ye this Be there any suche Idolaters nowe that woorship Breade They woulde be knowen God forbid we shoulde suffer Idolaters to liue amongest vs. Soothely in the Catholike Churche wee knowe none If ye cannot away with the Honour whiche all deuoute Christen people doo to the †blessed Sacramente wee meane to Christes Body and Christe him selfe †presente in Substance vnder †the Forme of Breade then can not we take you for Christians Mocke scoffe ieste and raile
at vs with the Iewes we dare not but Honour our Lorde Christe where so euer our Faithe findeth him verily and in Substance presente If through feruent zeale as sometimes it happeneth abuses in certaine places haue crepte in no good Catholike man defendeth them Mary wee knowe all is not to be abrogated that misliketh your corrupte taste And muche is righte Holy Deuotion pleasant in the sighte of God and therefore allowed in the Churche whiche your hote sprite calleth Idolatrous and blasphemous fondnesse And though the Ceremonie and manner whereby sutche deuotion is shewed cannot be prooued by ordinance of Christe or of the Apostles expressed in Scripture yet Christen people doubte not but God accepteth their good hartes The Bishop of Rome ye blame vniustly I might saie also proudely For procuringe Honour and worship to Christe in the Blessed Sacrament he hath the * woorde of God * the authoritie of al Holy Fathers and the * examples of antiquitie as I haue at large proued in my answeare to your companion Maister Iuel his eight negatiue Article But the amblinge Horse offendeth you VVhy be ye not also offended with the Asse and her fole that bare the same Body at Ierusalem whiche the Horse beareth at Rome Then Visible and weightie nowe Inuisible and of no weight That was donne in Pompe to the honour of Christe and so is this Ye saie this is done after a new guise So then was that Neither is it true whiche ye saie that the Bishoppes of Rome doo carrie about with them the Sacramente whither so euer they iourney Ye might haue learned in that Booke our of whiche ye alleage that matter to scoffe at that suche a solemnitie is vsed specially when the Pope rideth in Pontificalibus Then as the Booke telleth a white Palfrey trapped gentill and faier with a cleare soundinge bell hanginge at his necke is lead which carrieth the Monstrance or Pixe with the most Holy Body of Christe ouer the whiche noble Citizens shal beare a Canopie Thus the Booke of Ceremonies And I praie you what euill is this If it be good to carry about that moste holy Body by whiche as Christe once redeemed vs so by the same deuotely honoured of faithefull people and carried abrode and brought to certaine places hath in olde times as yet also dothe continually to the greate comforte and helpe of sundry persons beinge in distresse wrought miraculousely healthfull remedies If the Israelites founde healpe at Gods hande by bringinge the Arke into the fielde with them as they marched forewarde againste the Philistians if the Philistians cried out for feare when they perceiued the Arke to be in the Israelites armie and saide Venit Deus in Castra Vae nobis God is come into their Tentes Alas we are vndone c. And concerninge the order of the Ceremonie whereas the people be desirous to beholde the Body of their Redeemer with their Faithe by their carnall ete directed to the Forme of Breade no man is able to holde vp on hie the Sacramente so as conuenient it were to be donne bothe to satisfie their Deuotion and to mainetaine their Faithe for the Pope him selfe commonly is an aged man and therefore ouer weake for that Seruice specially arraied in Pontificalibus as in suche solemnities he is Againe the instrument that serueth for that purpose is so greate and weighty for so it apperteineth to the honour of Christe the waie so longe the ayer for the more parte there so hote as no other man is well able for lacke of strength to beare it so as meete it is to be borne In this case †why may not a Horse be put to that seruice to supplie that whiche by naturall weakenesse faileth in man VVherein he serueth not as one that beareth a male but as the Asse that bare Christe as the Kine that drewe the Arke Neither ought the custome of bearinge the moste Holy Body of Christe where the Pope goeth seeme Newe and Strange For we Reade in the life of the Blessed Martyr Steuen the firste who was Pope of Rome aboue thirtene hundred yeres past that Tharsitius the Deacon who at length also suffred death for Christe bare our Lordes Body at what time he attended vpon the Blessed Man Pope Steuen as he went to his Martyrdome VVho desireth to see this described at large the same maie he finde in that Greate fonde Fabulare Simeon Metaphrasies a Greeke writer wel approued and highly esteemed in the Greeke Churche In vita Stephani Primi For witnesse whereof we haue S. Ambrose who describeth how certaine faithful persons caried this blessed Sacrament with them when they wente to the Sea of whome his Brother Satyrus obteined the same in a Shipwracke and by helpe thereof hanginge it in a stole about his necke seekinge for none other succoure caste him selfe into the Sea and miraculously escaped safe to lande Neither is the same by him done without a speciall Mysterie though vnknowen to the more parte Although saithe a learned Pope a reason cannot be geuen of al thinges what so euer haue benne brought in vre by our Forefathers yet I thinke quoth he that therein lie hidden profounde Mysteries I reporte me nowe to the secrete consciences of good Christen people whether the Bishoppes of Rome vse not the Blessed Sacrament reuerently and bonorably or no but rather as the Persians Fire and the Reliques of the Goddesse Isis as a stage Plaie madde gasinges and foolishe Gaudes as it liketh this wicked Chammes broode to raile VVherein they folowe the sheppes whiche Iulian the Apostata Lucian Porphyrius Celsus and sutche other Prophane Helhoundes haue trodden before them For after the like manner they railed at the Holy Mysieries of Christen Religion namely Celsus who as Origen writeth of him obiected to the Christians the Sacrifices of Mithra whiche was an Idoll that the persians woorshipped and called by the name of the Sunne from whence he saide they had taken all their Sacramentes Rites and Ceremonies And righte so as we finde in S. Augustine writinge against the Manichees the Paynâ—mes founde faulte with the Christen people for Honour donne to the * Body and Bloude of Christe vnder * Formes of Breade and VVine saitinge that they Honoured Bacchus and Ceres The B. of Sarisburie Concerninge these Satanical Sprites stinkinge breathes vile Woordes sutche other like flowers of your Eloquence M. Hardinge I confesse me selfe to be far inferiour and neuer hable to make you answeare It is true that ye saie The Woorkeman is woorthy of his hiere S. Paule saith The Lorde hath appointed that who so Preacheth the Gospel shoulde liue by the Gospel But where did Christe euer saie vnto you Goe into al the worlde and saie Priuate Masse and offer me vp vnto my Father for Remission of Sinnes What Apostle what Prophete what Doctour what Father euer taught you so
that they be the hearers of the Lavve but the dooers of the Lavve vvhiche are iustified before God M. Hardinge Nay nay Syrs for that thinge ye crake so muche of be not to hastie to thanke your God VVhat peculiare God ye meane we knowe not That phrase your secretarie muche vseth as though ye had an other God beside him that is God of all Compare your selues with whom ye list your owne life and innocencie is so wel knowen as by reprouinge your vices and horrible sinnes no man lightly shal seme a slaunderer In deede if your continuall aduoutrie and Incest were laufull Matrimonie if your filthy yoke fellowes were your true wedded wiues if your robbinge and throwinge downe of Churches were almose and buildinge of places for praier to the encrease of Gods Honour if ignorant rashenesse were godly discretion if your woorde of the Lorde where Gods woorde if your pretensed Gospel were Christes true Gospel if your biblebable and railing were holsome Preachinge if yâ— Sprite of Sathan that is in you the same also beinge a lyinge Sprite in your mouthes coulde be meeke humble obedient and woulde tell Truthe finally if euill were good if darkenesse were light if sower were sweete if the fruites of your so naughty a tree were good we would also soothe you and vpholde your immoderate crakes VVee saie plainely of you at one woorde whiche we will to be a watche woorde for all Christen people to beware of you your Doctrine is Heresie your Life is iniquitie your endeuour tendeth to the subuersion of Soules The B. of Sarisburie It is no greate Crake M. Hardinge to géeue God thankes But what vncourteous dealinge is this of your parte Sir Defender and his Felovves muste comme to you learne to speake Notwithstandinge for ought that maie appeare yee are not yet very wel aduised howe to speake your selfe Nowe bicause wée saie vvee thanke our God our Secretarie hath made him selfe a Seueral God How be it you maie saie Our Lorde and thinke him not Catholique that wil saie otherwise and yet make you not your selues thereby any Seueral Lorde God geue you Grace ye be not seuered from the Lorde But wherefore it shoulde be more lawful for you to saie Our Lorde then for vs to saie Our God I thinke it a highe pointe of cunninge for you to open Thus ye woulde haue vs sommetimes to saie Our Lorde sometimes The Lorde sommetimes neither It were a skilful Cooke that knewe your diete Howe be it The Prophete Dauid saithe Deus noster refugium Vrtius Our God our Refuge and our Strengthe Singe Psalmes vnto Our God Our God is the God of Saluation Our God is in Heauen My God ô My God I wake earely vnto thee Thou arte My God I truste in thee My lotes are in thy handes S. Paule saithe I thanke My God alwaies I geeue thankes vnto My God Thus was it lawful then for the Apostles and Propehtes to speake without rebuke neither was there any M. Hardinge then so vncourteous to saie They made them selues a peculiar God S. Paule saithe Wee are iustified in the name of Iesus Christe our Lorde and in the Sprite of Our God S. Augustine saithe Contra istos Mirabiliarios cautum me fecit Deus Meus dicens In Nouissimis diebus surgent Falsi Prophetae My God hath willed me to beware of these Mungers of Miracles tellinge me that in the laste daies there shal rise vp False Prophetes Againe he saithe Deus Meus vbique praesens est Vbique totus nusquam inclusus My God is euerywhere presente euerywhere whole nowhere inclosed or shut vp Chrysostome saithe Christo meo testificabantur Venti Mare Bothe the Windes and the Sea bare witnesse to my Christe S. Hierome saithe Ego non Patrem non Matrem non Germanum aduersus Christum meum audiam I wil not heare neither Father nor Mother nor Brother against my Christe S. Cyprian saithe Hic est Deus noster id est non omnium sed Credentium Fidelium Deus This is Our God that is to saie not the God of al but the God of the Beleeuers and of the Faitheful Sedulius saithe Deus Naturâ omnium est Voluntate verò paucorum God by Nature is the God of al but by wil he is the God of Fewe But what shal wée neede many Doctours the case beinge so cleare You your selfe M. Hardinge in this selfe same Booke either of pourpose vpon somme better aduise or vnwares haue written the same Consider wel your owne woordes Thus ye saie There is no iniquitie in Our Lorde God Yet I trowe by these woordes ye make not to your selfe a peculiare God S. Paule saithe I liue in the Faithe of the Sonne of God whiche hath loued me and hath geeuen him selfe for my sake Whiche woordes S. Chrysostome writinge vpon the Genesis expoundeth thus Qui dilexit me c. Vt proprium vsurpas commune beneficium Profectò inquit Nam licet pro omni hominum genere Sacrificium oblatum sit tamen propter amorem in eum id quod factum est omnibus proprium mihi facio Ita Prophetis mos est facere dicere Deus Deus Meus quamuis totius Orbis sit Deus Sed peculiare hoc est amori vt ex communibus propria faciat Qui dilexit me Quid dicis An te dilexit solum Omnem inquit hominum Naturam dilexit Sed ego illi Gratias debeo quasi me Solum dilexisset tradidisset semetipsum pro me Solo. S. Paule saithe Christe hath loued me O Paule The benefite that is common to al thou vsest as peculiare to thee selfe Yea verily saithe S. Paule For al be it that Sacrifice were offered for al Mankinde yet for the loue that I beare towardes him the thinge that was donne to al I accoumpte as proper and seueral to mee selfe Alone Thus the manner of the Prophetes is to doo and to saie O God my God notwithstandinge be is the God of al the Worlde But this is the special and alonely office of Loue of thinges common to make thinges peculiare Thou saiste Christe hath Loued mee What saistet thou Hath Christe loued thee Onely and â—oman els No saithe Paule He hath loued al Mankinde But I ovve him thankes as if he had loued mee Alone and had geuen him selfe Onely for me Hencefoorthe M. Hardinge it maie please you to géeue vs leaue to speake as the Prophetes the Apostles the Holy Fathers and Doctours haue spoken before vs. The Apologie Cap. 4. Diuision 1. Bisides al these maters wherewith they charge vs they are woont also to adde this one thinge which thei enlarge with al kinde of spite that is that wee be menne of trouble that we plucke the Sworde and Scepter out of Kinges handes that we arme the people that we ouerthrowe iudgement places destroie the Lawes make hauoke of possessions seeke to
beare his owne guilte M. Caluine M. Martyr M. Musculus M. Bullinger and others whom you cal the Faithful Brothers of Englande misliked that enterprise and wrote againste it Wée knowe that God hath determined this mater longe sithence For thus he saith Si Homo moriatur absque Filio ad Filiam eius transibit Haereditas If a Man die without a Sonne his enheritance shal passe vnto his Daughter And S. Augustine saithe Lata est Romae Lex illa Voconia Ne quis Haeredem Foeminam faceret nec Vnicam Filiam Qua Lege quid iniquis dici aut cogitari possit ignoro There was a Lawe made in Rome called Lex Voconia That noman should conueie his Enheritaunce vnto a vvoman no not vnto his onely Daughter Then vvhiche Lavve I knovve not vvhat maie be more vvickedly thought or spoken But God be thanked that of his Mercie hath nowe raised vp vnto vs a Woman of sutche Wisedome Learninge Clemencie Grauitie Iudgement Gouernement and other Noble and Princely Vertues as haue not benne seene in many menne God encrease her dayly with his Holy Sprite and make her and olde Mother in Israel Amen Of your sturdy blastes and Secrete breathinges M. Hardinge I wil saie nothinge Yée maie yet remember whiche of your companie it was y◠in the time of that Noble Prince of Blessed Memorie Kinge Edvvarde the .6 saide in open Parlamente Woe be to that Kingedome the Prince whereof is a Childe And afterwarde séeinge y◠Queenes Maiestie that nowe is placed in her estate boldely openly confessed a greate euersighte and mutche folie in your former dooinges for that in the late time of your vnruely gouernmente ye had hewen downe the boughes leafte the Stocke standinge stil Goddes Secrete Prouidence M. Hardinge breathed againste you and confounded your dooinges Power onely ye lacked but good wil yée lacked none M. Hardinge For answeare to all this ye ioine your selues with Christe and his Apostles as though yee were gilty herein no more then they Presumptuously saide But the matter is not so answeared And yet yee runne at large in that common place and very vainely or rather Luciferlike compare your selues with the Apostles But Sirs staie here runne no farther Yee are soone stopped The case is not like pardie These be but your woordes In the Apostles was the Truthe in deede so was it in the Holy Prophetes and those firste Blessed men of the Churche The Truthe yee boaste and crake so muche of is not that Truthe Talke lesse like Rhetoricians and proue vs that yee haue Truthe like honest men And then talke on But that can ye neuer doo so longe as ye remaine out of the Churche and ennemies to the Churche But what spende I woordes in vaine Your hartes be hardened your Eies be blinded your Eares be stopped The B. of Sarisburie Here is profounde stuffe M. Hardinge for a Doctour of DIuinitie To answeare you with your owne vaine woordes in deede ye spende your woordes in vaine The Apologie Cap. 4. Diuision 2. Fourtie yeeres agoe and vpwarde it was an easy thinge for them to diuise against vs these accursed speaches other too soarer then these when in the middest of the darkenesse of that age firste beganne to springe and to geeue shine somme one glimmeringe beame of Truthe vnknowen at that time and vnhearde of when also Martine Luther and Hulderike Zvvinglius beinge most excellente menne euen sente of God to geeue lighte to the whole worlde firste came vnto the knowlege and preachinge of the Gospel when as yet the thinge was but newe and the successe thereof vncertaine and when mens mindes stoode doubtful and amased and their eares open to al sclaunderous tales and when there coulde bee imagined againste vs no facte so detestable but the people then woulde soone beleeue it for the noueltie and strangenesse of the matter For so did Symmachus so did Celsus so did Iulianus so did Porphyrius the olde foes to the Gospel attempte in times past to accuse al Christians of Sedition and Treason before that either Prince or people were able to knowe who those Christians were what thei professed what they beleeued or what was their meaninge M. Hardinge As ye runne foorthe your race and with lieinge amplification boaste and bragge of the Truthe of your Doctrine and of the Innocencie of your demeanour yee fall into a greate inconuenience and ouersighte VVas the lighte extinguished in all Israell till that lewde Friere came and Zwinglius the swarte Rutter Shall we now change the olde songe of Micheas the Prophete Out of Sion shal come the Lawe and the woorde of our Lorde from Ierusalem and singe a new Songe Out of VVittenberg is come the Gospel and the woorde of the Lorde from Zurich and Geneua If Luther and Zwinglius firste came to the knowledge and preachinge of the Gospel what meante Christe to breake his promise who saide I wil be with you al daies til the ende of the worlde Againe howe forgate ye the olde prouerbe a lier it behoueth to be mindeful Remember ye not howe this is contrary to al your owne Doctrine For saie ye not other where 's that God had alwaies his number of the electe and his inuisible Churche Therefore this muste ye recante and cal backe againe or els shal ye pul al the rable of sundry your owne sectes vpon your shoulders whose filthy railinges and vile vpbraidinges poore soules ye shal neuer be able to abide The B. of Sarisburie It is not woorthe the while to answeare him that saithe nothinge Sion from whence ye saie the Lawe of God issued firste was in those daies as mutche disdeigned of you Fathers as is this daie of your Geneua or Wittenberg Origen saith of Celsus the Heathen Christianum Dogma affirmat à Barbaris cepisse ortum hoc est à Iudaeis He saithe that the Christian Faith tooke her first beginning from Barbarous people that is to saie from the Ievves Cicero saithe Iudaei Syri Gentes natae seruituti The Ievves and Syrians Nations borne to Bondage And Chrysostome speaking of Iulianus the Renegate saith thus Galilaeos nos pro Christianis in Edictis suis appellauit In his proclamatiōs in the steede of Christians he called vs scornefully Galileans Notinge thereby the vilenesse of the place from whence the Gospel of Christe firste proceded But Nazianzene saith Honora paruam Bethleem quae te induxit in Paradisum Despise not but rather Honour that litle Bethleem that hath leadde thee into Paradise The sounde of this simple Barbarous despised people was hearde throughout the whole worlde God causeth his Light to shine out of the Darke His Holy Sprite breatheth where he thinketh good He hath no regarde of Personnes or choise of places but as S. Peter saide vnto Cornelius In euery Nation who so euer feareth him and woorketh righteousnesse is accepted before him God chuseth the weake
mutche that your paper blusshed not in your behalfe Reade his Bookes throughout and consider the quiet gouernement bothe of the Common Wealthes and also of the Churches of Germanie and ye shal finde that noman euer neither by woorde nor by example more auaunced the Authoritie of the Ciuile Magistrate To leaue al other his notable Sentences to this pourpose againste the Rebelles of whom ye speake beinge then in the fielde againste theire Lordes he wrote thus God commaundeth al menne vniuersally to obeie the Magistrate with feare and reuerence c. Againe Ye take the Swerde and withstande the Magistrate vvhom God hath appointed Is not this rashly to abuse the Name of God But he saithe Emonge Christians neither maie be nor ought to be any Magistrate O M. Hardinge nothinge coulde haue founde faulte herewith but onely intemperate and mere malice For Luther speaketh not these woordes of the outwarde Ciuile Gouernement but onely of our Inwarde Bande and Obedience towardes God And in this respecte there is no Kinge or Prince in déede nor maie be any In this sense S. Paule saithe There is no levve there is no Gentile There is no Lorde there is no Seruaunte There is no Man there is no VVooman For al you are one in Christe Jesu S. Paule denieth not but Ievve Gentile Lorde Seruaunte Man and VVooman remaine stil in theire seueral states and kindes as they were before But in Christe Iesu he saithe there is no regarde of any sutche difference In Ciuile Gouernmente a Kinge is a Kinge and so hath God commaunded him to be knowen But after that wée be once comme to the reuerence and obedience of Goddes wil there God onely is the Kinge the Kinge be he neuer so mighty is but a Subiecte So saith S. Ambrose to the Emperoure Valentiâ—â—ian Noli te extollere Imperator Sed si vis diutiùs Imperare esto Deo subditus Scriptum est Quae Dei Deo quae Caesaris Caesari O my Lorde auance not your selfe But if ye wil remaine long in Empiere be subiecte vnto God It is written Geeue to God that belongeth to God Geeue to Caesar that belongeth to Caesar So saithe the Emperoure Valentinian the Elder of him selfe Ego sum in sorte plebis I am in this respecte as one of the people To like pourpose Iulius Caesar beinge an Heathen Prince saide sommetime of him selfe at Rome in the Councel house Equidem ad alia omnia quae pro vobis gerenda sunt Consul sum Dictator quod autem ad iniuriam cuiquam faciendum attinet sum priuatus Touchinge al other affaires that ought to be taken in hande for your sake I am bothe your Consul and your Dictator But as touchinge any wronge to be donne to any man I am as a priuate man without office So said the Heathen Renegate Iulianus the Emperour Principes vbi ad limen Delubri venerint perinde sunt atque Priuati When the Princes and Magistrates once comme within the entrie of the Temple they are none other but as Priuate Menne And this is al that traiterous and horrible Iudgement that as it pleaseth you to saie Luther had of the Ciuile Magistrate Where ye saie he sturred vp his Disciple Thomas Munzer in Thuringia to be the preacher to the Rebelles it is no strang mater to sée your tonge to renne riot Luther him selfe writinge thereof vnto the Rebelles saithe thus Satanas sub Euangelij praetextu multos hoc tempore seditiosos planè sanguinarios Doctores excitauit Satan vnder the pretense of the Gospel hath sturred vp in these daies many seditious and Bloudy Doctours Meaninge thereby Munzer and other like his companions The Apologie Cap. 5. Diuision 2. But whereas it is woonte sommetime to be obiected by personnes wantinge skil touchinge the Heluetians chaunge of state and killing of Leopoldus the Duke of Austria and restoringe by force theire Countrie to libertie al that was donne as appeareth plainely by al Stories for twoo hundred and threescore yeeres paste or aboue in the time of Pope Boniface the Eight when the Authoritie of the Bishop of Rome was in greatest iolitie aboute twoo hundred yeeres before Huldericus Zuinglius either beganne to teache the Gospel or yet was borne And euer sithence that time thei haue had al thinges stil and quite not onely from foreine Enimies but also from al ciuile dissension And if it were a sinne in the Heluetians to deliuer theire owne Countrie from foreine gouernement specially when they were so proudely and tyrannously oppressed yet to burthen vs with other mennes faultes or them with the faultes of theire Forefathers it is againste al right and reason M. Hardinge Nowe your sprite is not contente withe that ye haue railed already againste the Pope and Holy Churche but it moueth you againe to raue and crie out But whether with more malice or reason let vs indifferently consider The Apologie Cap. 6. Diuision 1. But O immortal God and wil the Bishoppe of Rome accuse vs of Treasone Wil he teache the People to obeie folowe theire Magistrates Or hath he any regarde at al of the Maiestie of a Prince Why doothe hee then as none of the olde Bishoppes of Rome euer didde suffer him selfe to bee called of his flatterers Lord of Lordes as though hee woulde haue al Kinges and Princes whoe and what so euer they be to bee his vnderlinges Why doothe hee vaunte him selfe to bee Kinge of Kinges and to haue Kingely Roialtie ouer his Subiectes Why compelleth he al Emperours and Princes to sweare to him fealtie and true obedience Why dooth hee boaste that the Emperours Maiestie is a thousandfolde inferioure to him that for this reason specially bicause God hath made two lightes in Heauen and bicause Heauen and Earth were created not in twoo Beginninges but in one Why hathe hee and his felowes like Anabaptistes and Libertines to the ende they might runne on more licenceously and carelessy shaken of the yoke exempted them selues from beinge vnder al Ciuil Power Why hathe hee his Legates asmutche to saie as moste suttle spies lieinge in waite in al Kinges Courtes Councelles and Priuie chambers Why doothe he when he liste sette the Christian Princes one againste an other and at his owne pleasure trouble the whole worlde with debate and discorde Why dooth hee Excommunicate and commaunde to be taken as a Heathen and a Pagan any Christian Prince that renounceth his Authoritie and why promiseth he his Indulgences and his Pardons largely to any that wil what waie so euer it be kil any of his enimies Doothe hee maintaine Empires and Kingedomes Or doothe hee once desire that common quiete shoulde bee prouided for You muste pardonne vs good Reader though wee seeme to vtter these thinges more bitterly and bitingly then it becommeth Diuines to doo For bothe the shamefulnesse of the matter and also the desire of rule in the Bishoppe of Rome is so excedinge
presente vvhether he be Kinge or Emperoure holdeth his Stirope and afterwarde leadeth his Horse a litle waie forewarde by the Bridle But if there were tvvoo Kinges in presence the more Honorable of them shoulde holde the Bridle of the Rightside and the other of the leaste If there happen no Kinge to be presente then lette the woorthiest personnes leade his Horse But if the Pope woulde not ride but he borne on mennes shoulders in a Chaire then muste foure of the woorthiest Princes yea the Emperoure him selfe or any other mighty Monarche if he be presente beare the Chaire Pope and al a litle waie forewarde vpon theire shoulders Againe Imperator traditis Pomo Sceptro c. The Emperoure deliueringe ouer his Goulden Apple and his Sceptre to one of his menne commeth vnto the Popes Horse and in honoure of our Lorde Iesus Christe whole personne in Earthe the Pope heareth he holdeth the Stirope vntil theâ— Pope be mounted and afterwarde he taketh the Bridle and leadeth foorthe his Horse VVhile the Emperoure doothe these profitable offices the Pope ought modestly a litle to refuse the same and yet afterwarde with certaine good and gentle woordes takinge that honoure as donne to Christe and not vnto him selfe he holdeth him selfe contented Further it is appointed thus Caudam pluuialis portabit Nobilior Laicus qui erit in Curia etiamsi esset Imperator aut Rex The moste Noble Laie man that shal be in the Courte shal beare vp the traine of the Popes Cope yea though it be an Emperoure or a Kinge Againe Let the moste Noble Laic man whether he be Kinge or Emperoure bringe water to wasshe the Popes handes And while the Pope wassheth let al the Bishoppes and Laie menne kneele downe Againe Pontifice sedente c. While the Pope is yet sittinge at the Table the Noblest man within the Courte be he Emperoure be he Kinge shal be broughte to the Popes Credence to geue him Water Againe Primum ferculum portabit Nobilior Princeps siue Imperator sit siue Rex The firste disshe the Noblest Prince shal carrie vvhether he be Emperoure or Kinge Againe Rex in collatione portabit primum potum When the Pope is at Breakefaste the Kinge shal beare his firste Cuppe And againe Pocula portentur c. Let the Popes Cuppes be borne by the Noble menne or Oratours beinge presente and let the Clerke of the Ceremonies beginne with the woorthiest estate yea though he be Kinge or Emperoure Nowe I truste M. Hardinge of your courteste ye wil confesse that Sir Defender in these woordes hath not so impudently belied the Pope The Popes owne Booke of Ordinances and Ceremonies that directeth al orders saithe thus The Emperoure shal holde the Popes Stirope Let the Emperoure leade the Popes Horse The Emperoure muste beare the Popes Chaire on his shoulder The Emperoure shal beare vp the Popes traine Let the Emperoure bringe the Bason and Evver to the Pope The Emperoure shal geue the Pope vvater The Emperoure shal carrie the Popes Firste disshe The Emperoure shal carrie the Popes firste Cuppe For excuse hereof perhaps yée wil saie These were the Abuses of Olde times But nowe al sutche disorders are wel refourmed Therefore it maie please you to remember that the selfe same Ceremonies touchinge Kinges and Emperours dueties haue benne lately renewed and confirmed and published abroade into the worlde woorde by woorde as they were before without any manner alteration euen in the Popes owne Pontifical and that euen nowe newly printed at Venice in the yéere of Our Lorde a thousande fiue hundred thrée scoare and one whereby it maie appeare yee are ashamed of nothinge be it neuer so shameful What truthe therefore M. Hardinge is in your woorde Or with what countenance coulde ye so boldely saie That the Pope euer commaunded any sutche Seruice to be donne vnto him by the Emperoure yee can neuer shewe it by any indifferent and credible witnesse I doubte not but the Popes owne witnesse is vnto you of sufficiente credite and in his owne case it muste néedes to him selfe seeme indifferente Hereby it plainely appeareth that in al Offices and Seruices the Pope vseth the Emperoure as his man Therefore Auentinus reporteth these twoo verses written sometime of the Emperoure Lotharius the seconde Rex venit ad fores iurans per Vrbis honores Pòst homo fit Papac sumit quo dante Coronam The Kinge or Emperoure commeth to the gates and sweareth by the honoure of the Cittie And afterwarde becommeth the Popes Man at whose handes he receiueth the Crowne That Pipinus so mutche abased him selfe to Pope Steuin it is no marueile The Prouerbe is common One hande clavveth an other The Pope was auanced by Pipine and Pipine was likewise auanced by the Pope But hereof we haue spoken before Where ye saie The Emperoure Constantine the Greate vvas footeman to the Pope I am mutche ashamed of your vanitie that beinge a man of wisedome learninge ye should thus seeke to mocke yâ— worlde with Childishe Fables Ye allege Matthaeus Hieromonachus to proue a Fable by a Fable If yee woulde dasâ—e your Readers eies for that ye allege his woordes in Greeke vnderstande you that his peeuishe Greeke was taken out of your peeuishe Latine And yet is the same Greeke so fonde so ful of folie that ye were ashamed truely to turne it into Englishe For thus it standeth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 That is In the woorship and feare of my Lorde Blessed Peter Ye durste not to make the Emperoure Constantine so rude to saie that Peter was his Lorde and therefore ye thought it better to corrupte and alter your Authours woordes Yet sutche vaine Fables and Trifles muste ye bringe in to put vs as ye saie quite oute of doubte But hereof wee shal saie more hereafter The Apologie Cap. 7. Diuision 4. Who hurled vnder his table Frauncise Dandalus the Duke of Venice Kinge of Creta Cypres faste bounde with chaines to feede of bones amonge his Dogges M. Hardinge VVere not this Defender passed all shame he woulde not make so many and so shamelesse lies Malice hath so farre blinded him that he seemeth not to see what becommeth a man Though he feare not to be accompted a lier yet he shoulde be lothe to be accompted an vnhonest man yea and specially a foole Let truthe and honestie goe for in deede there is litle in these felowes what foolishnesse is it a man to bringe all his doctrine and all his saieinges touchinge thinges that he would so fame be beleued into so great and certaine discredite by suche open and manifest lies The truthe hereof is this as I finde it witnessed in Sabellicus and in the chiefest Chronicles the Venettars haue writteÌ„ by a Noble ma of Venis named Petrus Iustinianus The Citie of Venus being interdicted of the Pope FrauÌ„cys Dandalus was sente by the Duke and Lordes of the Counceil there to sue for Absolution At that time was
exception what so euer they liste to saie but onely so longe as they teache the Lavve of God Further then that S. Augustine saithe VVee maie neither heare them nor folovve theire Counsel Hereunto ye thought it good to adde more force as a supplie to aide youre wantes Christe saide vnto Peter I haue praied for thee that thy Faithe shal neuer faile Ergo saie you The Pope can neuer erre This waie of reasoninge I trowe yee Learned of Peter de Palude a woorthy Doctoure of your side For so he reasoneth Ego rogaui pro te Petre vt Fides tua non deficiat Ex quo habetur quòd Romana Ecclesia in Fide errare non potest nec de eius Fide dubitare licet Sed in omnibus est sequenda Peter I haue Praied for thee that thy Faithe maie not faile By these woordes wee are taught that the Churche of Rome cannot erre in Faithe Neither is it lawful to doubte of the Faithe of that Churche but in al causes wee are bounde to folowe it But S. Augustine saithe Nunquid pro Petro rogabat pro Iohanne Iacobo non rogabat Vt coeteros raceam To leaue the reste did Christe Praie for Peter and did he not Praie for Iohn and Iames Againe he saithe Hac nocte postulauit Satanas vexare vos ficut triticum egorogaui Patrem pro vobis ne deficiat Fides Vestra This nighte hath Satan begged to threashe you as if it were wheate but I haue Praied to my Father not for Peter onely but for you that your Faithe maie not faile So saithe Origen Nunquid audebimus dicere quòd aduersus vnum Petrum non praeualiturae sint portae Inferorum aduersus coeteros autem Apostolos ac Praefectos Ecclesiae sint praeualiturae An Petro Soli dantur à Christo Claues Regni Coelorum Nec alius Beatorum quisquam eas accepturus est Omnia quaeque priùs dicta sunt quaeque sequuntur Velut ad Petrum dicta sunt omnium Communia Maie wee dare to saie that the gates of Helle shal not preuaile Onely againste Peter but shal preuaile againste the other Apostles and Rulers of the Churche Were the Keies of the Kingedome of Heauen geuen onely to Peter And shal no Holy man els receiue the same Nay al the thinges bothe that were saide before and also that folowe after as spoken to Peter are Common and belonge vnto al. Therefore as ye saie of the Churche of Rome so maie wée saie likewise of the Churche of Hierusalem where S. Iames was and of the Churche of Ephesus where S. Iohn was and of other the like Apostolique Churches notwithstandinge they be now in the possession of the Turke and haue receiued the Religion of Mahomete yet bicause Christe hathe once praied for them The Faithe of them shal neuer faile Further ye tel vs It shal be yenough for you to doo as the Successoures of Peter bid you to doo Christe now requireth not of you to obeie Peter and Paule but to obeie him that sitteth in their Chaire If this waie be as sure as it is shorte then is there no doubte but al is wel Though wée beléeue neither Peter nor Paule nor what so euer is writtē in Goddes Woorde yet saie you If vve folovve the Pope vvee cannot erre For thus mutche M. Harding ye are hable to warrante vs by your Gospel y◠Christe requireth not vs now to be obedient to Peter and Paule but onely to the Popes Holinesse y◠keepeth Residence in theire Chaire This is your Diuinitie these are your woordes If ye euer recante the same ye marre the flower of your Market Wée néede not now to saie Thus saithe the Lorde it shal be sufficient for vs to saie Thus saithe the Pope Yet S. Paule so far aduentureth the Truthe and certainetie of his Doctrine that he doubteth not to saie If an Angel from Heauen preache vnto you any other Gospel then wee haue Preached accursed be he Vpon whiche woordes S. Chrysostome hathe noted thus Non dixit Si Contraria annuntiauerint aut totū Euangelium subuerterint verùm Si paulùm Euangelizauerint praeter Euangelium quod accepistis etiamsi quiduis labefactauerint Anathema sint S. Paule saithe not If they Preache Contrarie to the Gospel or ouerthrowe the whole Gospel but If they Preache any little thinge bisides the Gospel that ye haue receiued if they ouerthrovve any thinge vvhat so euer it be accursed be they Therefore S. Hierome saithe Ea doceat Episcopus quae à Deo didicerit non ex proprio Corde c. Let the Bishop teache those thinges that he hath learned of God and not of his owne harte or fansie Chrysostome saithe Plus aliquid dicam Ne Paulo quidem obedire oporret si quid dixerit proprium si quid humanum sed Apostolo Christum in se loquentem circumferenti I wil telle you a greatter mater Wee maie not obeie no not S. Paule him selfe if he speake any thinge of his owne or if he speake onely as a man But wee muste beleeue the Apostle of Christe carrieinge Christe aboute speakinge within him And therefore Panormitane saithe In concernentibus Fidem etiam dictum vnius priuati esset praeferendum dicto Papae si ille moueretur melioribus rationibus Noui Veteris Testamenti quà m Papa In maters concerninge Faithe the saieinge of one Priuate man were to be hearde before the saieinge of the Pope if the same Priuate man were moued with better reasones of the Newe and Olde Testamente then the Pope But that vvee should no lenger obeie Peter and Paule but geeue eare onely to him that is cropen into theire Chaire it is suche Diuinitie as neither Peter nor Paule euer taught vs. Laste of al as vpon somme good aduauantage ye beginne to Triumphe Remember yee saie ye what ye saie knowe yee what ye doo who wil regarde youre woorde whiche with one breathe saie and vnsaie If it be odious to leaue our felowship why doo yee it If yee despise not the Churche why departe ye from it To Saie and Vnsaie it is your propertie M. Harding it is not oures Yée haue Saide Vnsaide yet were it not for shame it is thought yée woulde be contente to Saie againe Wee despise not the Churche it is the House of God But we mislike your defacinge and disorderinge of the Churche Christe reproued the Priestes and Phariseis for that they had turned the Temple of God into a caue of Theeues And yet neuerthelesse he despised it not but saide it was his Fathers house To leaue the wicked felowship of them that beare a name and shewe of Godlinesse it seemeth odious before menne but before God it is not odious S. Iohn saithe VVho so euer is sutche a one bidde him not God speede For who so saithe God speede vnto him is partetaker of his il S. Paule saithe I warne you that you receiue no meate with any
further Hoc valdè verisimile est Quoniam verissimum Regnum hoc habet vocabulum S. Gregorie saith He is Antichriste that shal claime to be called the Vniuersal Bishop and shal haue a Garde of Priestes to attende vpon him Againe Irenaeus saithe Antichristus cùm sit Seruus tamen adorari vult vt Deus Antichriste notwithstandinge he be but a slaue yet he wil be woorshipped as if he were God Ioachimus Abbas saithe Antichristus iampridem natus est Romae altiùs extolletur in Sede Apostolica Antichriste is longe sithence borne in Rome and yet shal be higher anaunced in the Apostolique See Thus is he described that shal sitte in the place of Christe and shal maineteine possession againste Christe But Christe shal comme vvith his holy Angels and shal destroie him vvith the breath of his mouthe That ye allege of the Priesthoode of Melchisedech serueth you here to smal pourpose Wee knowe that not the Pope but Christe alone is a Prieste for euer accordinge to the Order of Melchisedech S. Augustine saithe Ipse est Sacerdos noster in aeternum secundum Ordinem Melchisedech qui semetipsum obtulit holocaustum pro peccatis nostris eius Sacrificii Similitudinem celebrandam in suae Passionis Memoriam commendauit Christe is oure Prieste for euer after the Order of Melchisedech whiche hath offered vp him selfe a Sacrifice for oure sinnes and hath deliuered vnto vs a Similitude or Likenesse of that Sacrifice to be donne in remembraunce of his Passion Likewise againe he saithe Holocausti eius Imaginem ad Memoriam Passionis suae in Ecclesia celebrandam dedit vt esset Sacerdos in aeternum non secundum Ordinem Aaron sed secundum ordinem Melchisedech Christe hathe geuen an Image or Resemblaunce of that Sacrifice to bee keapte in the Churche in Remembraunce of his Passion that he might be a Prieste for euer not after the Order of Aaron but after the Order of Melchisedech Howe be it touchinge this whole mater I haue answeared more at large in my Former Replie The Apologie Cap. 9. Diuision 4. Wherefore like as it is written that Hercules in olde time was forced in striuing with Antaeus that huge Giant to lifte him quite vp from the Earth that was his Mother ere he coulde conquert him euen so muste our Aduersaries be heaued from their Mother that is from this vaine colour and shadowe of the Churche wherewith they so disguise and defende them selues otherwise they can not bee brought to yelde vnto the Woorde of God And therefore saithe Ieremie the Prophete Make not sutche great boaste that the Temple of the Lorde is with you This is but a vaine confidence these are but lies The Angel also saithe in the Apocalyps They saie they be Ievves but they bee the Synagog of Sathan And Christe said to the Phariseis when they vaunted them selues of the kinred and bloude of Abraham Ye are of your father the Diuel For you resemble not your Father Abrahā As mutche to saie as Ye are not the menne yee would so faine be called ye beguile the people with vaine titles and abuse the name of the Churche to the ouerthrowing of the Churche M. Hardinge Heaue at vs whiles ye wil and whiles ye may ye shal neuer remoue vs. In whiche stedfastnes we truste to stande by Gods grace to the last breath Heaue at vs with al the forces of your cunning of your malice of your flatterie of your policies and with what so euer ingens ye haue ye shal neuer be able to ouerthrowe the house of our consciences builded vpon the sure rocke Let the gourders of raine come downe from you and al other Heretikes let the floudes of worldly rages thrust let the windes of Sathans temptations blowe their worste this house shal not be ouerthrowen The B. of Sarisburie O M. Hardinge S. Paule saith vnto you Noli altum Sapere sed time Presume not of your selfe but stande in awe Sutche woordes woulde rather haue becommed them that said sommetime vnto the Prophete Hieremie Verbum quòd locutus es nobis in Nomine Domini non audiemus Sed faciendo faciemus omne verbum quòd egredietur de ore nostro Wee wil neuer heare the woorde that thou speakest vnto vs in the name of the Lorde But wee wil surely doo what so euer thing shal passe out of our owne mouthes Thus it is written of them that saide The Lorde shal not beare rule ouer nor maister vs. With like mildenesse of spirite the wilful Philosopher saide Non persuadebis etiamsi persuaseris Ye shal not make me beleue it no though I doo beleue it As Constancie in good thinges is a vertue so frowardnesse and wilfulnesse is a vice Vowe not thus youre owne destruction He that is fallen maie rise againe The Lorde is hable to raise you vp and to make you a vessel of his glorie Ye knowe not to what good pourpose God hath appointed you Speake not ouer mutche of the strength of your Mounte You knowe vpon howe light occasions it hath benne moued Folowe rather S. Paules counsel and with feare and tremblinge woorke youre owne Saluation The waie ye walke in is not youre owne Your harte is in the hande of God Suffer Goddes Truthe to preuaile And vnderstand that the kingedome of God is come vnto you The Apologie Cap. 10. Diuision 1. So that these mennes parte had ben first to haue clearely and truely proued that the Romishe Churche is the true and right instructed Churche of God and that the same as they doo order it at this daie doothe agree with the Primitiue Churche of Christe of the Apostles and of the Holy Fathers whiche wee doubte not but was in deede the True Catholique Churche M. Hardinge Ye would vs to proue that the Romaine Churche is the true Churche of God Ye graunt that once it was the true Churche of God And the Gospel sheweth that Christe praied for it in S. Peter who made his successours there VVhat followeth hereof but that it must needes abide as true as euer it was except Christes praier were not heard S. Paule likewise wttnesseth that the Romaine Faithe is preached in the vniuersal worlde geuing a manifest prophecie that the Romaine Faithe and the Catholique Faithe should be alone S. Cyprian calleth the agreing with the Bishop of Rome and communicating with him Catholicae Ecclesiae vnitatem c. The allowing and firme holding of the vnitie of the Catholique Churche And writing to Antonianus in the same booke he accompteth it for one thing to Communicate with Cornelius the B. of Rome and to Communicate with the Catholique Churche For you it is vaine to saie that it hath erred when the holy ghost hath signified that it can not erre The B. of Sarisburie I wil not saie Where were youre wittes M. Hardinge when yee wrote theise thinges But wel maie I saie where was your Logique As for Diuinitie
were vtterly decaied and consumed to nought And in this sense ye saie Elias coÌ„plained that the Prophetes of God were al slaine he onely leâ—te aliue But nowe ye saie the Churche maie not be brought to a fevve For God hath geuen to Christe his Sonne the endes of the worlde to bee his possession Yet Christe him selfe that beste knewe the reache and limites of his possession saithe thus When the Sonne of Manne shal comme thinke you he shal finde Faithe in the worlde Whereupon S. Ambrose saithe Tunc Fides rara Vt ipse quasi addubitans Dominus ista dixerit Then shal Faithe be geason So that our Lorde spake these woordes as doubting therof whether there should be any Faithful leaft or no. And S. Iohn in his ReuelatioÌ„s saith Mulier fugit in solitudinem vbi habet locum paratum à Deo The wooman whereby is meante not the Synagog of the Ievves but the Churche of Christe fleeth into the wildernesse where she hath a place prouided of God By whiche woordes is meante that in time of Ignorance and Persecution the Churche is without Countenaunce and vnknowen S. Paule saithe Before the Daie of the Lorde there shal be a departing from the Faithe of Christe By these it appeareth that the decaie of the Churche shal be vniuersal and that the remanentes shal not bee many Therefore Vincentius Lirinensis putteth the case on this wise Quid si nouella aliqua contagio iam non portiunculaÌ„ tantùm sed totam pariter Ecclesiam commaculare conetur Tunc item prouidebit vt Antiquitati inhaereat What if somme newe corruption goe aboute to inuade not onely somme portion of the Churche but also the whole vniuersal Churche altogeather Then must a Christian man settle him selfe to cleaue to Antiquitie That is to saie to folowe the Primitiue Churche of the Apostles and Ancient Fathers This case would he neuer haue moued onlesse he had thought the VVhole vniuersal Churche might happen by somme erroure to be corrupted Surely S. Chrysostome speakinge of the state of the Churche that he sawe in his time saithe thus Videtur Ecclesia hodiè mulieri quae mansuetudine veteri exciderit similis quaeque Symbola tantùm foelicitatis illius quaedam referat Arcas Scrinia rerum pretiosissimarum adhuc retinens Thesauro destituta Huic mulieri Ecclesia hodie videtur similis The Churche this daie is like vnto a woman that hath quite loste al her olde modestie and that beareth onely certaine badges and tokens of her former felicitie and that beinge vtterly berefte of the treasures keepeth onely the Cases and Boxes of the pretious thinges she had before To suche a vvoman the churche this daie maie be likened Likewise S. Hierome speaking of that he sawe by experience in his time saithe thus Ecclesia postquam ad Christianos principes peruenit potentia quidem diuitijs maior sed virtutibus minor facta est The churche after that she is comme to Christian Princes in deede is greatter in wealth and richesse But in vertue and holinesse she is lesse then she was before Therefore saith Chrysostome Haec dico ne quis miretur Ecclesiam propter multitudinem sed vt ipsam probatam reddere studeamus Thus mutche I tel you not that wee shoulde auaunce the Churche bicause of the Multitude and encrease of people But that wee shoulde endeuour to adourne her with vertue Nowe where ye saie the Churche nowe can neuer be brought to fewe S. Bernarde saithe thus vnto God by waie of moane Coniurasse videtur contra te vniuersitas populi Christiani à minimo vsque ad maximum A planta pedis vsque ad verticem non est sanitas vlla Egressa est iniquitas à Senioribus Iudicibus Vicarijs tuis qui videntur regere populum tuum O Lorde the Vniuersal Companie of Christian people seemeth to haue conspired againste thee from the lovvest vnto the highest From the sole of the foote vnto the croune of the heade there is no whole place Iniquitie and wickednesse is gonne foorthe from thy Elder Iudges that be thy Vicares that are thought to rule thy people Againe he saithe Intestinalis insanabilis est plaga Ecclesiae the wounde of the Churche is inwarde and paste recouer Likewise Baptista Mantuane complaineth vnto Pope Leo Sancte Pater succurre Leo Respublica Christi Labitur aegrotatque Fides iam proxima morti Healpe Holy Father Leo Christes Common Wealth that is the Churche is falling downe the Faithe is sicke and like to die So likewise saithe he that wrote the Forte of Faithe Et si in hoc Daemonum bello cadant Religiosi Principes Milites Praelati Ecclesiastici Subditi tamen semper manent aliqui in quibus saluatur Veritas Fidei Iustificatio bonae Conscientiae Et si non nisi duo homines remanerent in mundo in eis saluaretur Ecclesia quae est Vnitas Fidelium In this battel of Diuelles notwithstandinge the Godly Princes the Souldiers the Ecclesiastical Prelates and Subiectes be ouerthrowen yet euermore somme remaine in whome the Truethe of Faithe and the Righteousnesse of a good Conscience is preserued And although there remained but tvvo menne in the vVorlde yet in the same twoo the Churche of God shoulde be saued vVhiche Churche is the Vnitie of the Faitheful The Churche of God is often compared to the Moone which sometimes is ful round bright glorious sommetimes is wholy shadowed drowned in darkenesse and yet notwithstanding is not consumed but in Substance remaineth stil S. Augustine saith Aliquando in Solo Abel Ecclesia erat et expugnatus est à fratre malo perdito Caim Aliquando in Solo Enoch Ecclesia erat translatus est ab iniquis Sommetime the Churche was in onely Abel and he was destroied by his brother vvicked Caim Sommetime the Churche was onely in â—noch and he was translated from the wicked Your owne Panormitane saithe Possibile est quòd Vera Fides Christi remaneret in Vno Solo Atque ita verum est dicete quòd Fides non deficit in Ecclesia Hoc patuit post Passionem Christi Nam Fides remansit tantùm in Beata Virgine Quia omnes alij scandalizati sunt Tamen Christus ante Passionem orauerat pro Petro vt non deficeret Fides sua Ergo Ecclesia non dicitur deficere nec etiam errare si remanet Vera Fides in Vno Solo It is possible the trewe Faithe of Christe maie remaine in one alone And so it is true to saie that Faithe faileth not in the Churche This thinge appeared after Christes Passion For then the Faithe remained onely in the Blessed Virgin For al the reste bothe the Apostles and others were offended Yet had Christe praied for Peter before his Passion that his Faithe shoulde not faile Therefore vve maie not saie the Churche faileth or erreth if the Faithe remaine but in one alone
sicut ipsum Caput Christum in Scripturis Sanctis Canonicis debemus agnoscere VVhether they haue the Churche or no let them shewe by the Canonical Bookes of the Holy Scriptures VVee muste knowe the Churche of Christe euen as wee likewise knowe Christe whiche is the Heade of the Churche in the Holy Canonical Scriptures Againe he saithe Ecclesiam sine vlla ambiguitate Sancta Scriptura demonstrat The Holy Scripture sheweth the Churche without any doubtefulnesse Againe Quaestio est vhi sit Ecclesia Quid ergo facturi sumus Vtrùm in verbis nostris eam quaesituri an in Verbis Capitis sui Domini nostri Iesu Christi Futo quòd in illius potiùs Verbis eam quaerere debemus qui Veritas est optimè nouit Corpus suum The question or doubte is where the Churche should be What then shal we doo VVhether shal wee seeke the Churche in our owne woordes or in the VVoordes of her Heade whiche is oure Lorde Iesus Christe In my Iudgemente wee ought rather to seeke the Churche in his VVoordes for that he is the Truthe and beste knoweth his owne Body Againe Non audiamus Haec dico Haec dicis Sed audiamus Haec dicit Dominus lbi quaeramus Ecclesiam Ibi discutiamus causam nostram Let vs not heare these woordes This saie I This saiste thou But these woordes set vs heare Thus saithe the Lorde there let vs seeke the Churche there let vs discusse oure cause And againe Nolo Humanis Documentis sed Diuinis Oraculis Sanctam Ecclesiam demonstrari I wil not haue the Holy Churche to be shewed by Mannes Iudgemente but by Goddes VVoorde Likewise saithe S. Chrysostome Nunc nullo modo cognoscitur quae sit vera Ecclesia Christi nisi Tantummodò per Scripturas Now can noman knowe whiche is the true Churche of Christe but Onely by the Scriptures Againe he saithe in like fourme of woordes Volens ergo quis cognoscere quae sit Vera Ecclesia Christi vnde cognoscat in tanta confusione similitudinis nifi Tantummodo ' per Scripturas If a man be desirous to knowe whiche is the true Churche of Christe how can he know it in sutche a confusion of likenesse but Onely by the Scriptures These woordes be so euident and so plaine that noman with modestie maie wel denie them And whereas you saie Al this notwithstandinge A true Churche maie be founde whiche is not shewed in the Scriptures S. Ambrose saithe Ecclesia fulget non suo sed Christi Lumine The Churche shineth or is knowen not by her owne Lighte but by the Light of Christe whiche is by the VVoorde of God And chrysostome saithe Qui Sacra non vtitur Scriptura sed ascendit aliunde id est non concessa via hic Fur est Latro Who so vseth not the Scripture but geateth vp an other waie that is by a waie that is not lawful he is a Theefe and a Murtheier Againe he saithe Hierusalem hîc semper Ecclesiam intellige quae dicitur Ciuitas Pacis cuius Fundamenta posita sunt super Montes Scripturarum Here by Hierusalem euermore vnderstande thou the Churche whiche is called the Cittie of Peace The Fundations whereof are saide vpon the Mountaines of the Scriptures Ye magnifie your Churche of Rome and saie It shieth on highe vpon the Mounte Yet S. Bernarde saithe to the Pope and his Cleregie as it is alleged before Vos estis Tenebrae Mundi Ye are the Darkenesse of the VVorlde Therefore ye maie not wel vaunte your selues so mutche of the brightnesse of your Beames As for that ye cal our Churche the Synagoge of Lucifer and Antichriste we maie wel suffer it to blowe euer as the vaine vnsauery smoke of somme impatiente Cholerique humoure Our cause is not the woorse M. Hardinge in the Iudgemente of the wise for that you haue learned so readily to speake il But what Louanian vanitie is this to saie The Members of the Churche of Christe abide in the Vnitie of the Pope What Scripture or Doctoure or Father euer tolde you of sutche Vnitie S. Paule saith Wee are alone not in the Pope but in Christe Iesu And what so greate Vnitie can you saie there is or hathe benne in your Popes Platyna saithe Post Stephanum semper haec consuetudo seruata est vt acta Priorum Pontificum sequentes ant infringereat aut omnino ' tollerent It hathe benne an ordinarie custome emonge the Popes euer sithence the time of Pope Steuin that the Popes that folowed afterworde would euermore either breake or abolishe the Actes of the Popes that had benne before them Erasmus saith Iohannes 22. Nicolaus totis Decretis inter se pugnāt idque in his quae videntur ad Fidei negotium pertinere Pope Iohn 22. and Pope Nicolas in theire whole Decrees are contrarie the one againste the other yea and that in maters that seeme to belonge to cases of the Faithe To be shorte the Popes haue fouly corrupted the Scriptures they haue corrupted the Decrees Canons of Councelles they haue benne Sorcerers Idolaters Scribes Phariseis Thei haue benne Arian Heretiques Nestorian Heretiques Monothelite Heretiques Montaniste Heretiques thei haue mainteined damnable Heresies against y◠Godhed of Christe against y◠Personne of Christe against y◠VVil of Christe against the Immortalitie of the Soule they haue henne contrarie to themselues one directly and expressely againste an other Yet muste the Pope beare vp the whole Churche of God euen as Atlas beareth vy the Heauens and onlesse al the worlde abide in him is there no Vnitie in the Churche Thus saith Hosius Vnum praeesse toti Ecclesiae vsque ade ò est necessarium vt absque hoc Ecclesia Vna esse non possit It is so necessarie a thinge that one haue the gouernmente of the whole that otherwise the Churche of God cannot be One. Likewise it is noted in the Popes ovvne Gloses vpon his Decretalles Constat Ecclesiam ideo esse vnam quia in Vniuersali Ecclesia vnum est caput Supremum scilicet Papa It is plaine that the Churche is one for that in the Vniuersal Churche there is one Supreme Heade that is the Pope An other of your Doctours doubteth not to steppe yet a litle farther and thus to expounde the woordes of Christe Fiet Vnū Ouile Vnus Pastor Quod quidem de christo intelligi non potest Sed de aliquo alio Ministro qui praesit loco eius There shal be one Folde and one Shepehearde These vvoordes vvee maie not vnderstande of Christe but of somme other Minister that ruleth in his roome By whiche Doctours Catholique Iudgemente wée finde that the Vnitie of the Churche hangeth not of Christe but of the Pope But these be ouer vaine and grosse vanities For though the Pope were no Pope yea though Antichriste were the Pope yet is Christe hable to holde his Churche in perfite Vnitie S. Paule saithe Christus est
qui non sunt veriti Scripturarum auctoritate Scripturis auctoritatem omnem detrahere En quò perduxit rem tandem Saranas A certaine newe kinde of Prophetes is risen who sticke not by the Authoritie of Scriptures to take away al auctoritie from Scriptures See whither at the length the Deuill hath brought the matter Now afterwarde expoundinge this matter more at large he declareth the Capitaine of that Heresie to haue benne Zwenkfeldius He sheweth that by a Texte of Scripture where Dauid saithe I will heare what our Lorde speaketh in me Zwenkfeldius wente aboute to wil men to heare what God telleth euery man by inspiration rather then to geue attendance to the written woorde of God And whiles Hosius reporteth what Zwenkfeldius saide for the maintenance of his fonde Heresie amonge other his woordes these are which be brought in this Apologie against Hosius and againste the Catholikes whereas it is neither Hosius nor any Catholike that speaketh them but onely Zwenkfeldius him selfe Hitherto we haue shewed that the woordes alleaged in the Apologie vnder the name of Hosius make neither againste him nor against vs as not beinge his woordes nor ours but onely the woordes of Zwenkfeldius VVell what credite maie we geue to this man in expoundinge the VVoorde of God whose true meaninge he maie falsisie at his pleasure because we can not bringe foorthe God him selfe to declare his woordes seeinge he dareth to burthen Hosius with these woordes whiche Hosius him selfe beinge yet aliue can declare to haue another meaninge as the Booke it selfe doothe witnesse to all that liste to reade the same This was a greate faulte to impure so horrible an Heresie to Hosius vniustly This was a greate ignorance to charge him with that Heresie whiche he refuteth and impugneth They are greate crimes and yet suche as might riâ—e of misreporte and ignorance But when he was tolde of them he shoulde of reason haue corrected them He should haue repented with Peter and not despaired with Cain and Iudas But what did he when he vnderstoode he had erred He addeth a Glose farre more malicious then the former errour was For graunâ—inge that Hosius setteth out the matter so as though neither he nor any of his side but the Heretikes Zwenkfeldians spake so this not withstandinge he burtheneth bothe him and the Catholikes with it saieinge that he dissembleth and hideth what he is Syr was this the waie to amende your faulte to graunt that Hosius spake against the Zwenkfeldians and yet to beare men in hande he fauoured them If he had fauoured their Heresie what needed he to refell it But how saie you that Hosius dissembleth and hideth what he is sith that euen here in two places in moste plaine woordes you laie the Zwenkfeldian Heresie to his charge Reade your owne Booke Before the allegation of Zwenkfeldius Heresie saie you not thus VVe saithe he will bid away c. And after the allegation haue you not these woordes This is Hosius saieinge How standeth all this togeather You haue forgotten the Prouerbe that biddeth a lier to be mindefull I can not tell howe to name this kinde of your dealinge lieinge or detraction slaunderinge or malicious speakinge But Sir if Hosius haue spoken euill why geue you not witnesse against him of euill If he haue spoken well euen by your owne confession in reputinge the Zwenkfeldians for Heretikes why finde you faulte with him for his good woordes suche I saie as your selfe confesse to be good You reprooue him who speaketh not against Zwenkfeldius and againe you graunt he speaketh against him and yet because you had once reproued him you will contine we in it without reason learninge or witte But it must needes so be for without pertinacie no man is either a perfite Heretike or a perfite slaunderer If yet you stande in Defence of it all the worlde will accompte you for a desperate persone For no man that euer sawe Hosius woorkes can thinke that he was gilty of that you burthen him with But some man might thinke you were deceiued and mistooke Hosius But sith you graunt you doo not now mistake him and yet charge him with auouchinge that whiche he holdeth for Heresie he that vnderstandeth thus muche of you maye assure him selfe that you are disposed to belie and slaunder Hosius though it coste you the damnation of your Soule For shame man repente and reuoke that for whiche your owne conscience stinteth not to barke at you But Hosius saie they peraduenture will not allowe the woordes of Zuenkfeldius yet he doothe not disallowe the meaninge of the woordes VVell and clerkely reasoned As though woordes were allowed or disallowed for any other so principall a cause as for theire meaninge And therefore he that disalloweth woordes hath muche more disallowed the meaninge of them Yet saie they of the Holy Communion vnder Bothe Kindes he reiecteth the plaine woordes of Christe as Deade and colde Elementes Verely a man mighte thinke this Booke was set foorthe by some ennemie of our newe Englishe Clergie it is so mutche to their defacinge had not theÌ„selues at diuerse times acknowleged it for a whelpe of their owne littour A maÌ„ for his life can not finde one leafe in it without many Lies The B. of Sarisburie I cannot greately blame you M. Hardinge though yée shewe your selfe hote and vehement in defence of Hosius For of him you and somme of your Felowes maie saie as Carneades saide sommetime of Chrysippus Nisi Chrysippus fuisset ego non essem If Chrysippus had not benne then had I neuer benne For had not Hosius benne good vnto you and spared you parte of his furniture sutche as it was your Diuinitie had benne ful bare Ye saie wée reade neither the Olde Writers nor the Newe but are vtterly ignorante and voide of al learninge and in respecte of the Beames of your knowlege knowe nothinge It were a very ambitious and a childishe vanitie to make vauntes of Learninge For as motche as ye seeme desirous of the same of greate Readinge ye shal haue the whole praise and glorie of it M. Hardinge without contention Wée wil rather saie with S. Paule Wee knowe nothinge but onely Iesus Christe Crucified vpon his Crosse Yet notwithstandinge wée are neither so ignorant nor so idle but that wee are hable and haue leasure to reade as wel the Olde Doctours the Fathers of the Churche as also your lighte vnciuile Pamflettes and blotted Papers whiche God wote in al respectes are very Newe And for either of them wee are mutche ashamed in your behalfe For the Olde Doctours Fathers to see them of your parte either of wilfulnesse or of forgeatefulnesse or of ignorance so fowly misused of your owne Papers Nouelties to see them with vntruthe and other vncourteous speache so fully freighted But touchinge Hosius yée condemne vs vtterly either of ignorance or of malice For the woordes wherein wée finde sutche faulte were vttered by him as you saie not as any parte of
that is set abroade in the Canonical Scriptures Againste whiche Doctrine if Councelles determine any thing I thinke it vvicked S. Chrysostome saithe further in more earneste sorte Plus aliquid dicam Ne Paulo quidem obedire oportet si quid dixerit proprium si quid humanum I wil saie more Wee ought not to beleeue no not Paule him selfe if he speake any thinge of his owne or if he speake onely as a man And to encrease the vncertaintie hereof the whole weighte and iudgemente of Councelles hangeth nowe euermore vpon the Pope as it maie appeare by these woordes of the Conclusion of the late Chapter at Trident Saluasemper in omnibus Sedis Apostolicae Authoritate The Authoritie of the Apostolique See in al thinges euermore reserued But Platyna saithe as it is alleged before Acta priorum Pontificum sequentes Pontifices semper aut infringunt aut omnino ' tollunt The Popes that folowe doo euermore either breake or wholy abrogate the Decrees of the Popes that were before Whether the Scripture bee wel alleged or otherwise thereof ye saie the people maie not Iudge For Christe saithe The Scholar is not aboue his Maister Certainely M. Hardinge the simplest of al the people notwithstandinge by youre restrainte he maie not iudge of the Scriptures yet he maie easily iudge of you either that ye vnderstande not or that ye vnaduisedly abuse the Scriptures Whether it be the Woorde of God or no the people ye saie maie not Judge And that ye proue euen by the Scriptures God knoweth ful handsomely and ful discretely applied For the Scholar ye saie is not aboue his Maister Thus we maie learne by the Logique of Louaine that Populus is Latine for a Scholar that Scripture is Latine for a Maister And thus by youre vaine premisses without sense ye proceede vainely and conclude nothinge O M. Hardinge haue some regarde to that ye write The simpleste maie soone espie your dooinges Ye can no longer thus mocke the worlde with shewes of woordes Christe spake not these woordes of the vnderstandinge of the Scriptures but of persequution for the Scriptures For thus the woordes lie togeather When they shal persecute you in one Cittie flee into an other c. The Scholar is not aboue his Maister Nor the Seruant aboue his Lorde If they haue called the Maister of the house Beelzebub howe mutche more wil they so cal his housholde seruauntes Alas where learned you to frame sutche Argumentes The Apostles beeing the Scholars can nomore escape persecutioÌ„ then could Christe that vvas the Maister Ergo The people cannot vnderstande vvhat they reade in the Scriptures Here is neither Antecedente nor Consequente nor Sequele in Reason For the honour of yâ— Vniuersitie haue better regarde vnto your Logique Ye bewraie the weakenesse of youre cause when yee so sclenderly abuse the Scriptures The Apologie Cap. 22. Diuision 4. Chrysostome saithe There be many oftentimes vvhiche boaste them selues of the Holy Ghoste but truely vvho so speake of their ovvn head do falsely boast that thei haue the sprite of God For like as saith he Christe denied he spake of him selfe vvhen he spake out of the Lavve and Prophetes euen so novve if any tiauerint aut totum Euangelium subuerterint verùm Si vel paulùm Euangelizauerint praeter Euangelium quod accepistis etiamsi quiduis labefactauerint Anathema sint S. Paule saithe not If they teache the contrarie or if they ouerthrowe the whole Gospel But he saithe if they preache any little smal thinge besides the Gospel that ye haue receiued or if they loose or shake downe any thinge whatsoeuer it bee accursed bee they These woordes M. Hardinge touche you very neare Ye haue altered the whole fourme of the Churche of God Therefore repente youre selues leste ye remaine stil within the aunger of the Curse S. Augustine saithe Sancta Scriptura nostae Doctrinae Regulam figit Ne audeamus plus sapere quà m oporâ—eat sapere The Holy Scripture hath laide a rule vnto oure Doctrine that we dare not to vnderstand more then is meete for vs to vnderstand The Apologie Cap. 22. Diuision 3. For where these menne bid the Holy Scriptures away as doumbeand frutelesse procure vs to comme to God him selfe rather who speaketh in the Churche in theire Councelles that is to saie to beleue their fansies and opinions this waie of finding out the Truthe is very vncertaine and exceeding dangerous and in manner a fantastical madde waie by no meanes allowed of the Holy Fathers M. Hardinge VVhere they saie we passe but litle on the Scriptures as dumbe and vnprofitable therein they slaunder vs as in other thinges VVe do not so But we saie that as euery act of Parlament must be executed by a lawful Iudge so the holy Scriptures haue their execution by lauful Iudges who are the bishoppes and fathers as wel in other places as specially when they be laufully assembled in general councelles Now saie these men that way is very vncertaine dangerous in maner mad and not allowed of the fathers VVho euer heard men thought to haue their right wittes talke after so loose a sorte Did the fathers disproue the order of comming together in general councelles Or thought they the same to be a way for men to be the soner deceiued If so many maie be deceiued with moste diligent studie and mature iudgement conferring together howe mutche soner may one or two alone â—eadde by priuate phansie and self wil be caried away into errour At the Nicene councel came together 318 bishops At the first of CoÌ„stantinople 150. at the Ephesine couÌ„cel 200. At that of ChalcedoÌ„ 630 Al these foure councelles sundry ancient fathers namely S. Gregorie estemed as the foure Gospels Yea but saith he I haue the word of God But what if 300. farre holier and better learned men saie he hath it not Let the reader be iudge saith be A meete iudge in suche a cause The Scholers maie reade but iudge of their maisters they maie not by Christes doctrine who said Non est discipulus supra magistrum the scholer is not aboue his maister VVhy not for al that saie you if the Holy Ghost inspire him Sir is it not to be thought God doth assist his Churche represented in sutche solemne assemblies of three hundred or moe fathers gouernours of Christen people rather then one man The B. of Sarisburie Whether ye cal the Scriptures of God a Dumbe thing or no I reporte me to that is saide before One of you calleth it Mortuum Atramentum Dead Inke An other saith Scriptura est res inanimis muta The Scripture is a dead and a dumbe thinge An other calleth the Scriptures Nigrum Euangelium The blacke Gospel Nowe if the Scriptures be Dead and Doumbe and can not speake then must it needes folowe they are vnprofitable Neither doo we despise the Authoritie of Councelles Good Councelles be graue and reuerende But thus
we saie Councelles are often against Councelles And if wee make rekening of number the Arian Heretiques haue had moe Councelles then the Christians S. Hierome saithe Spiritus Sancti Doctrina est quae Canonicis literis prodita est Contra quam si quid statuant Concilia nefas duco That is the Doctrine of the Holy Goste that is set abroade in the Canonical Scriptures Againste whiche Doctrine if Councelles determine any thing I thinke it vvicked S. Chrysostome saithe further in more earneste sorte Plus aliquid dicam Ne Paulo quidem obedire oportet si quid dixerit proprium si quid humanum I wil saie more Wee ought not to beleeue no not Paule him selfe if he speake any thinge of his owne or if he speake onely as a man And to encrease the vncertaintie hereof the whole weighte and iudgemente of Councelles hangeth nowe euermore vpon the Pope as it maie appeare by these woordes of the Conclusion of the late Chapter at Trident Salua semper in omnibus Sedis Apostolicae Authoritate The Authoritie of the Apostolique See in al thinges euermore reserued But Platyna saithe as it is alleged before Acta priorum Pontificum sequentes Pontifices semper aut infringunt aut omninò tollunt The Popes that folowe doo euermore either breake or wholy abrogate the Decrees of the Popes that were before Whether the Scripture bee wel alleged or otherwise thereof ye saie the people maie not Iudge For Christe saithe The Scholar is not aboue his Maister Certainely M. Hardinge the simplest of al the people notwithstandinge by youre restrainte he maie not iudge of the Scriptures yet he maie easily iudge of you either that ye vnderstande not or that ye vnaduifedly abuse the Scriptures Whether it be the Woorde of God or no the people ye saie maie not Iudge And that ye proue euen by the Scriptures God knoweth ful handsomely and ful discretely applied For the Scholar ye saie is not aboue his Maister Thus we maie learne by the Logique of Louaine that Populus is Latine for a Scholar that Scripture is Latine for a Maister And thus by youre vaine premisses without sense ye proceede vainely and conclude nothinge O M. Hardinge haue some regarde to that ye write The simpleste maie soone espie your dooinges Ye can no longer thus mocke the worlde with shewes of woordes Christe spake not these woordes of the vnderstandinge of the Scriptures but of persequution for the Scriptures For thus the woordes lie togeather When they shal persecute you in one Cittie flee into an other c. The Scholar is not aboue his Maister Nor the Seruant aboue his Lorde If they haue called the Maister of the house Beelzebub howe mutche more wil they so cal his housholde seruountes Alas where learned you to frame sutche Argumentes The Apostles beeing the Scholars can nomore escape persecutiō then could Christe that vvas the Maister Ergo The people cannot vnderstande vvhat they reade in the Scriptures Here is neither Antecedente nor Consequente nor Sequele in Reason For the honour of y V Uniuersitie haue better regarde vnto your Logique Ye bewraie the weakenesse of youre cause when yee so sclenderly abuse the Scriptures The Apologie Cap. 22. Diuision 4. Chrysostome saithe There be many oftentimes vvhiche boaste them selues of the Holy Ghoste but truely vvho so speake of their ovvn head do falsely boast that thei haue the sprite of God For like as saith he Christe denied he spake of him selfe vvhen he spake out of the Lavve and Prophetes euen so novve if any thinge be pressed vpon vs in the name of the Holy Ghost saue the Gospel vve ought not to beleue it For as Christe is the fulfillinge of the Lavve and Prophetes so is the Holy Ghost the fulfillinge of the Gospel Thus farre goeth Chrysostome M. Hardinge They alleage out of Chrysostome that who so euer speake of their owne doo vntruely attribute to them selues the Spirite of God But they remember not howe they who are gathered together in the name of Christe doo not speake of their owne because Christe who is the truthe hath promised to be in the middest of them Nowe if they tel vs that the Fathers at Trent were not gathered together in the name of Christe howe mutche more truly maie wee reply to them that the temporal menne assembled together at Auspurg at Marpurg at VVormes at Smalcald at Baden at VVestminster or any where els came not together in the name of Christe I require but a man of common sense to sitte Iudge in this cause They can not possibly bringe any thinge out of the Scriptures or auncient Fathers for maintenance of this their great case The B. of Sarisburie Ye builde ouer boldely M. Hardinge on Christes promises God is true what so euer he promise But oftentimes menne are false Christe hath promised to be present where so euer twoo or three be geathered togeather in his name But it appeareth by the woordes of the Prophete Dauid that Councelles oftentimes meete togeather againste God and againste his Christe The Prophete Michaeas saithe Sic dicit Dominus de Prophetis qui errare faciunt populum meum Abominantur iudicium omne rectum peruertunt Super Dominum requiescebant dicentes Nunquid non est Dominus in medio nostri Thus saithe our Lorde of the Prophetes that deceiue my people They abborre Iudgement they ouerthrowe al that is right And yet they reaste them sēlues vpon oure Lorde saienge Is not oure Lorde in the middest emongest vs This is youre defence M. Hardinge Whether the VVorde of God be with you or againste you yet ye saie ye haue stil the Sprite of God and oure Lorde him selfe is in the middest emongest you But this boldnesse by Chrysostomes Iudgement is presumptuous and daungerous And therefore his counsel is that if any thing be pressed vpon vs by the name of the Holy Ghoste sauinge onely the Gospel of Christe wee shoulde not beleeue it In like sense S. Augustine saithe Sua illi si docere veliut nolite audire nolite facere If they bringe any Decree or Fantasie of theire owne heare it not Doo it not Thus the Olde Frenetique and Fanatical Heretiques when they founde them selues conuinced by the euident testimonies of Goddes VVoorde they appealed to the Spirite of God whiche they saide euen as you saie euermore assisted them and coulde not faile them Hereof S. Augustine writeth thus Videris ergo id vos agere vt omnis de medio Scripturarum authoritas auferatur suus cuique animus author sit quid in quaque Scriptura probet quid improbet id est vt non Authorirati Scripturarum subijciatur ad Fidem sed sibi Scripturas ipse subijciat Non vt ideò illi placeat aliquid quia hoc in sublimi Authoritate scriptum legitur sed ideo rectè scriptum videatur quia hoc illi placuit Ye see therefore this is youre drifte that al
Arke of Noe. The Heretique Dioscorus to geate somme credite to his Doctrine woulde séeme to bringe the descente thereof from al the Ancient Fathers of the Churche For thus he saide in the open Councel Ego testimonia habeo Sanctorum Patrum Athanasij Gregorij Cyrilli in multis locis Ego cum Patribus eijcior Ego defendo Patrum Dogmata Non trāsgredior in aliquo Et horum Testimonia non simpliciter neque transitoriè sed in Libris habeo I haue the witnesse of the Holy Fathers Athanasius Gregorius cyrillus in many places I am throwen foorth with the Fathers I defende the Fathers Doctrine I swarue not frō thē in any pointe I haue theire witnesse not barely nor by the waie but in theire Bookes So saide the Heretique Eutyches Ego legi Scripta Beati Cyrilli Sanctorum Patrum Sancti Athanasij I haue readde the Bookes of Cyrillus of the Holy Fathers and of Athanasius So saide the Heretique carosus Ego secundum expositionem trecentorum decem octo Patrum sic Credo sic Baptizatus sum Thus doo I beleue and thus was I Baptized according to the Exposition of the three hundred and eighteene Fathers in the Councel of Nice Thus y◠Arian Heretiques alleged the Authoritie of y◠Ancient Father Origen thus the Pelagian Heretiques alleged the Authoritie of S. Augustine As vpon occasion it hath benne saide before Euen with sutche truthe M. Hardinge are you woonte to blase the Armes of your Religion There is no toie so vaine or so fabulous but ye are hable by your conninge to bring it lineally either from Christe him selfe or from his Apostles or from one or other of the Ancient Fathers The Bishop of Sidon in y◠Late diete of the Empiere holden at Augusta auouched openly that ye had your whole Canon from the Apostles of Christe woord by woord euen as it is péeuishely written in your Masse Bookes Andreas Barbatius proueth the Antiquitie of y◠Cardinalles of Rome by these woordes written in the firste Booke of the Kinges Domini sunt Cardines Terrae Et posuit super eos Orbem The Corners of the Earth be the Lordes and vpon them he hath sette the world Abbate Panormitane saithe Cardinalatus est de Iure Diuino Quia Papa per Sacerdotes Leuiticos intelligit Cardinales The Cardinalship standeth by the Law of God For the Pope by the Leuitical Priestes vnderstandeth his Cardinalles Hosius séemeth to saie that Monkes haue theire beginning euen from the Apostles meaninge thereby as one of your Companions there doothe in fauoure I trowe of Religion that Christe him selfe vvas the Abbat For thus he saith Christus Dux exemplar vitae Monasticae Christe was the Captaine and samplar of Monkes life And yet the same man afterwarde as hauinge forgotten his former dreame vtterly displaceth Christe geueth the whole honoure hereof vnto Elias Elizaeus These be his woordes Elias Elizaeus Duces instituti Benedictini Elias and Elizaeus were y◠Captaines of S. Benettes order y◠is to saie thei were Blacke Monkes By like wisedome ye would séeme to fetche your Holy Water from S. Augustine This was sommetime a ioily good waie to winne credite specially whiles what so euer ye said y◠people was ready to geue you care So y◠olde Arcades saide in commendation of theire Antiquitie y◠thei were a daie or twoo elder then the Moone Saturnus beinge in Italie for y◠he was a stranger no man knew frō whēce he came therefore was called Filius Caeli was thought to come frō Heauen Romulus Alexander for that thei were borne in bastardie neuer knewe theire owne Fathers therefore to magnifie the nobilitie of theire bloude woulde be called the Children of the Goddes the one of Mars y◠other of Iuppitter With sutche Truthe and Fidelitie M. Hardinge your woonte is to painte out al the partes and members of your Doctrine For be it neuer so vaine or childishe or lately diuised yet ye beare vs in hande that your Predecessours receiued the same as you saie of theire Bishoppes and they of others theire Predecessours by order vntil they reache to your Augustine the Monke of Rome whom ye haue ful woorthily made a Sainte your Augustine yée saie receiued the same of Gregorie Gregorie of others before him and they al one of an other by continual ascente vnto S. Peter and Peter of Christe and Christe of God his Father No Heralde coulde lightly haue saide more in the mater I trowe ye woulde proue by this Ascente and Descente that God the Father made Holy VVater and said Masse In deede as wel herein as also in your emptie names of Augustine Hierome Chrysostome Ambrose Basile Cyprian Dionyse c. as I tolde you once before ye bringe vs onely a vaine shewe of painted boxes and nothinge in them For in al these Holy Fathers where finde you either your Priuate Masse or your halfe communion or your Accidentes without Subiecte or the reste of your like Vanities wherewith ye haue so longe time deceiued the worlde Leaue your dissimulation set aparte your Confectures and blinde gheasses and for your credites sake once shewe vs these thinges in the Ancient Holy Fathers and shew them plainely and in déede that wée maie thinke there is somme weight in your woorde But your owne Glose speakinge of the Ministration of the Holy Communion whiche now in your Churches in a manner is wholy abolisshed saith thus Hoc Antiquum est Nam hodiè videtur esse relictum This was the Olde order For as it seemeth nowe it is leafte Doctoure Tonstal saithe It was no Heresie to denie your Transubstantiation before your late Councel of Laterane Erasmus whoe 's iudgement I thinke ye wil not refuse saith thus In Synaxi Transubstantiationēe ser ò definiuit Ecclesia In the Holy Ministration it was longe ere the Churche determined the Article of Transubstantiation Al this notwithstandinge M. Hardinge ye blusshe not to saie that bothe these and al other your fantasies haue benne conueighed vnto you by moste certaine Succession from hand to hand from your Englishe Augustine from Gregorie from the Fathers from the Apostles from Christe and from the bosome of God him selfe The Apologie Cap. 1. Diuision 3. But howe if the thinges whiche these menne are so desirous to haue seeme Newe be founde of greatest Antiquitie Contrariwise howe if al the thinges wel nighe whiche they so greatly set out with the name of Antiquitie hauinge benne wel and throughly examined be at length found to be but Newe diuised of very late Soothely to saie no man that hath a true and right consideration woulde thinke the Iewes Lawes and Ceremonies to be Newe in deede for al Hammans accusation For they were grauen in very Aunciente Cables of greatest Antiquitie And although many did take Christe to haue swarued from Abraham and the Olde Fathers and to haue brought in a certaine Newe Religion in his owne name yet
beleeue if by negligence ought fall downe In an other place writinge vpon the Centurions woordes spoken to Christe Matth. 8. VVhen saithe he thou takest that Holy meate and that vncorrupte deintie when thou enioiest that Breadde and Cuppe of Life thou Eatest and Drinkest the Body and Bloudde of our Lorde then our Lorde entreth vnder they roofe The B. of Sarisburie Wée laie not in the manglinge of this Anciente Father as mater of sufficient euidence but onely as a greate coniecture of your Corruption referringe the Iudgemente thereof vnto the Reader Certainely M. Hardinge wee haue good cause many waies to doubte your dealinge but in nothinge more then in the handlinge of the Fathers Ye remember how wickedly Pope Zosimus the better to coloure his Ambition longe sithence corrupted the Nicene Councel Neither can ye forgeate what trifles and fabulous Vanities yee haue lately sente vs abroade vnder the olde smooky names of Abdias Leontius Amphilochius Hippolytus and Clemens whom yée so solemnely cal the Apostles Felovve In these vncleanely conueiances to any wise man there can appeare no simple meaninge Notwithstandinge ye thought it good policie to deceiue the worlde by any shifte or shadowe of Anciente Fathers What Origen thought of the Woordes of Christe in the sixth Chapter of S. Iohn it is easy to coniecture by that he hath written otherwheres Vpon the Leuiticus he writeth thus Est in Euangelio Litera quae occidit Si enim secundum Literam sequaris illud quod dictum est Nisi Comederitis Carnem Filij Hominis c ea Litera occidit Euen in the Gospel there is a Letter that killeth For where as Christe saithe Onlesse ye eate the Fleashe of the Sonne of Man c if ye take the same accordinge to the Letter that Letter killeth This was Origens iudgemente of the Sacramente and the same in those daies was counted Catholique Ye replie Origen saithe When ye take the Body of our Lorde yee keepe it with al warinesse and reuerence that no parte thereof fal downe And againe When thou takest that Holy meate then our Lorde entreth vnder thy roofe Bothe these places in my Former Replie are fully answeared But what Catholique Doctrine M. Hardinge can ye pike out of these woordes What Transubstantiation What Real Presence What Accidentes vvithout Subiecte Ye wil saie Origen calleth the Sacramente Christes Body So doothe Christe him selfe so doothe Paule so doo al the Anciente Fathers bicause it is the sacramente of Christes Body Your owne Glose saithe as it hath benne often alleged Vocatur Corpus Christi id est Significat Corpus Christi It is called the Body of Christe that is to saie it Signifieth the Body of Christe But the people yée saie receiued it warily and with reuerence So doo they nowe euen in those Churches that you moste mislike withal He saithe further When thou receiuest that Holy Meate then our Lorde entreth vnder thy roofe And what greate mater thinke you to winne hereby Euen in the same place Origen saith Intrat etiam nunc Dominus sub rectum credentium duplici Figura vel more Euen nowe the Lorde entreth vnder the roufe of the Faitheful after twoo manners or sortes For when the Holy and Godly Bishoppes enter into your House euen then through them our Lorde entreth Wil ye conclude hereof that the Bishop is Transubstantiate into Christe Or that Christe is Really and Substantially dwellinge in him This is an Allegorie M. Hardinge or a Mystical kinde of Speache wherein as you knowe that Learned Father was mutche delited The Roofe that he meaneth is not Material but Spiritual that is to saie not the Body of Man but the Soule Like as also the Comminge or Entringe of Christe into the same is not Bodily but onely Spiritual So S. Augustine saithe Praedicant Christum cum annuntiando venire faciunt in exhausta fame viscera Filij esurientis They Preache Christe and by Preachinge cause him to comme into the Bowelles of the hungry childe wasted with Famine Likewise againe he saithe of the Centurion Tecto non recipiebat Christum Corde recipiebat quanto humilior tanto capacior tanto plenior He receiued not Christe into his house he receiued him into his Harte The more humble the more roome had he to receiue him and the fuller he was So saithe Chrysostome Qui vocant Dauid cum Cythara intus Christum per ipsum vocant They that cal in Dauid with his Harpe by meane of him cal in Christe Againe he saithe Christus aut suscipitur aut occiditur apud nos Si enim credimus verbis eius suscipimus eum generamus in nobis Christe either is receiued or slaine within vs. For if wee beleeue his VVoorde wee receiue him and begeate him within vs. In sutche sorte S. Hierome writeth vnto Paula Ad talem clemens ingreditur Iesus dicit Quid ploras Non est mortua puella sed dormit Into sutche a one Iesus entreth milde and gracious and saithe Why weepest thou Thy damesel is not Deade but lieth asleepe This manner of speache as I saide before is Spiritual or Mystical and maie not be taken accordinge to the outwarde sounde of the Letter So saithe S. Hierome Secundum Mysticos intellectus quotidiè Iesus ingreditur in Templum Patris Accordinge to the Mystical vnderstandinge Christe entreth dayly into the Temple of his Father In this sense Origen saithe Christe entreth into our House Whiche phrase writinge vpon S. Mathevve he expresseth in plainer manner Tradunt eijciunt ab anima sua Saluatorem Verbum Veritatis quod erat in eis They betraie and throwe foorth our Saueour from out of their Soulet as doo al Apostates and Renegates that denie the knowen Truthe of God and they betraie the VVoorde of Truthe that was within them The Apologie Cap. 3. Diuision 1. 2. It is a worlde to see how welfauouredly and how towardly touching Religion these men agree with the Fathers of whom they vse to vaunte they be their owne good The Olde Councel Eliberine made a Decree that nothinge that is honoured of the people should be painted in the Churches M. Hardinge The woordes of that prouincial Councel be these It is thought good that paintinges be not in the Chruche that what is woorshipped or Adored it be not painted on Walles This expresse prohition of paintinge and that nought be painted in Churche Walles that is woorshipped or Adored maie seeme bothe to presuppose a former vse of suche paintinges and also to allowe the other sorte of images VVhether it doo or no it forceth not greatly The seuenth general Councell assembled at Nice against the Imagebreakers hath not onely allowed the Deuoute vse of Images cōmonly vsed in the Churches of Christen people but also condēned al those that throwe them downe and maineteine y◠contrary opiniō Now we are taught that a prouinciall Councell ought to geue
treatable voice that the people might receiue somme fruite thereby These menne leste the people should vnderstand them numble vp al theire Seruice not onely with a drowned hollow voice but also in a strange and Barbarous tongue M. Hardinge Iustinian the Emperour willeth praiers at the holy oblation which these Defenders here translate administration as beinge ashamed of theire owne Authore because they holde againste the sacrifice of the Masse to be made not in silence but with an audible voice Not meaninge as though praiers made in silence were vnfruitful to the people as these men woulde make vs beleue And therefore they corrupt his woordes as what thinge do they not corrupt that commeth vnder theire handes They saie Iustinian made that Lawe Vt fructus ex ea re aliquis ad populum redire posset that somme fruit might come thereof to the people as who shoulde saie no fruite were like to come if praier were made in silence But what saithe Iustinian His woordes be Quó maiore exinde deuotione in depromendis Domini Dei laudibus audientium animi efferantur To thintent the mindes of the hearers maie thereby with the more deuotion be lifted vp in settinge forth the praises of our Lorde God He saithe that the lowde voice helpeth to more deuotion he saieth not to some fruit but with more deuotion Some fruit is alwaies had euen by secrete praier and more fruit sometime then by lowde praier Two faultes then are committed or rather two lies made in Iustinians woordes one that for oblation thei tourned administration whiche falsehede M. Iewel vseth in his printed Sermon and in his replies to M. D. Cole VVhether he be also gilty of this An other fault is that for more deuotion they put some fruite The third lie is in that they saie we do whisper al our Seruice so is the Latine albeit this good Lady liketh better the terme of mumblinge I wene fewe who haue the sense of hearing â–ª wil saie with them that the singinge of Psalmes Hymmes Epistle Gospel Grailes Offertories Preface â–ª and sutche like Seruice vsed in the Catholike Churche is whisperinge or numblinge The fourth lie is where they saie we do it so leste the people shoulde vnderstande vs. VVe wishe that al the people vnderstoode al our praiers But we thinke it not conuenient in a common prophane tongue to vtter high mysteries Therefore we wishe they would learne the mystical tongue and gladly do we teache their children the same S. Dionyse the Areopagite scholer to S. Paule teacheth Timothe and in him al vs Communicare ea quae vim perficiendi habent cum ijs qui perficiunt to communicate those thinges whiche haue power to make men perfite with them who make men perfite ‡ that is to saie to publishe priestly office of Consecration for nothinge maketh vs more perfite amonge them onely who are Priestes and not amonge others Laste of al the fifth lie is to saie that we pronounce our seruice and our mysteries in a barbarous toÌ„gue As though the Latine tongue were barbarous and not rather euery vulgare tongue That tongue is moste barbarous whiche is moste vsed of the vulgare sorte moste priuate moste vnknowen in respecte of al VVhen Englande commeth to haue a seruice of theire owne a tongue of their owne in Churches and hath a Churche of theire owne beside the whole then haue they loste theire parte with the Catholike Churche whereunto God restoare it againe The B. of Sarisburie O M. Harding wée corrupte not sutche thinges as comme vnder our handes The worlde séethe that is your Ordinarie and peculiare practise It is not oures Yée dubbe vs bothe here and elswhere with your lies vpon lies Sutche is the Ciuilitie and Courtesie of your speache Yet hitherto wée haue not redubbed you with any one lie Sobrietie and modestie rather becommeth them that speake of God Firste ye saie VVee haue corrupted Iustinians woordes And yet yée knowe wée alleged onely Iustinians meaning and otherwise not one of al his woordes Ye saie Iustinian meante not as though praiers made iâ— silence were vnfruiteful to the people For somme Fruite ye saie there is al waies had euen by secrete and vnknowen Praier But what fruite or howe mutche or howe ye knowe it or can assuere it ye spare to tel vs. Yet S. Augustine saithe Quid prodest locutionis integritas quam non sequitur intellectus audientis Cùmloquendi omninò nulla fit causa si quod loquimur non intelligunt propter quos vt intelligant loquimur What profite is there in speache be it neuer so perfite if the vnderstandinge of the hearer cannot attaine it For there is no cause why wee should speake at al if they vnderstande not what wee speake for whoe 's sake we speake that they maie vnderstande vs. Againe he saithe Mens mea sine fructu est Hoc ait quando id quod dicitur non intelligitur My minde is without fruite This the Apostle S. Paule saithe when the thinge that is spoken it not perceiued And againe Si intellectum meÌ„ns remoueas nemo aedificatur audiendo quod non intelligit Set aparte the vnderstanding of the Minde And noman hath fruit or profite of that thing that he perceiueth not Likewise againe he saith Quid opus est iubilare noÌ„ intelligere iubilationeÌ„ vt Vox nostra sola iubilet Cor non iubilet Sonus enim Cordis intellectus est What needeth vs to singe if wee vnderstande not what wee singe to singe with our voice and not with our Harte For Vnderstandinge is the sounde or voice of the Harte These woordes VVhisperinge and Mumblinge mislike you mutche Yet your owne frendes intreatinge hereof haue often vsed the same woordes In your late Councel of Colaine it is written thus Vt Presbyteri Preces non tantùm Ore Murmurent sed etiam Corde Persoluant nunquam à manibus eorum Liber Legis hoc est Biblia deponatur That the Priestes not onely Mumble vp theire Praiers but also pronouace them from theire hartes Let the Booke of the Lavve that is to saie the Biblâ— neuer be saide from theire handes Likewise Regino reporteth the woordes of the Councel of Nantes Ridiculum est muris aut parietibus Infusurrare ea quae ad populum pertinent It is a preushe thinge to vvhisper those thinges to the walles that perteiâ—e vnto the people Notwithstandinge whether it be VVhisperinge or Mumblinge or by what so euer name els it shal please you to cal it that good Emperours Commaundement meaninge was that ye shoulde so vtter al thinges in the Congregation Distinctely and Plainely with lowde and Open Voice that the people might vnderstande you and answeare Amen Therefore S. Augustine saithe Nos qui in Ecclesia Diuina eloquia cantare didicimus simul etiam instare debemus esse quod Scriptum est Beatus populus qui intelligit
and contrarie to Pope Gelasius commaunde that one Kinde onely of the Holy Communion be geeuen the people and by so dooinge they make their Priestes gilty of Sacrilege M. Hardinge There is no small number of men whiche are moued to suspecte that this Apologie was deuised by some Catholike man intendinge to mocke this newe Cleregie of Englande and to put them quite out of estimation and credite And to that very ende this innumerable companie of Lies to them seemeth of pourpose to be set out For no man hauinge his fiue wittes woulde thinke good for mainetenance of his owne parte to affirme so many thinges the contrary whereof to his greate discredite and shame by searche is easely founde Leo saithe cleane contrary to that is here in his name auouched that when so euer a newe multitude filleth the Churche so as all caÌ„not be present at the Sacrifice at once that the Oblation of the Sacrifice be without castinge any doubte done againe The B. of Sarisburie I beseeche thée Gentle Reader for shortnesse sake for thy better satisfaction herein to consider my answeare made hereunto in my Former Replie to M. Hardinge Uerily Leo speaketh not one woorde either of Priuate Masse or of Sole Receiuinge or of any other like Superstitious and yéeuishe vanitie but onely of the General Communion of the whole Churche His Counsel therefore vnto Dioscorus is that if vpon occasion of resorte the multitude of Communicantes were so greate that they coulde not haue conuenient coume in the Churche to receiue al togeather at one Communion then the Prieste after he had ministred vnto the firste Companie and had willed them to departe foorthe and géeue place to others and sawe the Churche replenished againe with a newe Companie of aftercommers shoulde without feare or remorse of Conscience beginne the whole Communion againe and so minister vnto them as he had donne vnto the foremet More then this oute of Leoes woordes cannot be geathered The Apologie Cap. 5. Diuision 1. But if they wil saie that al these thinges are woorne nowe out of vre and nighe deade perteine nothinge to these presente times Yet to the ende al folke maie vnderstande what Faithe is to be geeuen to these menne and vpon what hope they cal togeather their General Councelles let vs see in fewe woordes what good heede they take to the selfe same thinges which thei theÌ„ selues these very last yeres and the remembrance thereof is yet newe and freashe in their owne General Councel that they had by order called haue decreed and Againe he saithe speakinge likewise of any one Bishop Vidisti Summum Sacerdotem Interrogantem Consecrantem Thou sawest the Highest Prieste examininge the people that was to be Baptized and Consecratinge the Water I leaue out sundrie other like Authorities of Origen of Lactantius of Athanasius of Leo of Victor of Meltiades and of others Euagrius calleth Euphemius and Gregorius the Bishop of Antioche Summos Sacerdotes The Higheste Priestes Ruffinus calleth Athanasius the Bishop of Alexandria Pontificem Maximum The Greatest or Higheste Bishop By these I truste it maie appeare that the Title or Dignitie of the Highest Priestehoode was general and common to al Bishoppes and not onely closed vp and mortesed onely in the Pope Bisides al this ye bringe vs a Woorde yee saie of Greater sounde In Romana Ecclesia semper viguit Apostolicae Cathedrae Principatus In the Romaine Churche the Princehoode of the Apostolike Chaire hath alwaies florished In deede Princehoode and Apostolike be ioily large woordes and carrie greate sounde And faine woulde yee haue the Bishop of Rome shoulde be a Prince Notwithstandinge in the Councel of Aphrica it was decreed thus Primae Sedis Episcopus non appelletur Princeps Sacerdotum Let not the Bishop of the Firste See be called the Prince of Priestes But what if the sounde of these woordes weighe no heauier then the former Or what if this woorde Princehoode be nomore peculiare to the Pope then is the other of Highest Priesthoode Paulinus writtinge vnto Alypius not the Greate Bishop of Rome but the poore Bishop as I remember of Tagasta saithe thus Deus in Ciuibus Ciuitatis suae Principalem te cum Principibus populi sui Sede Apostolica collocauit God hath placed thee emongest the Citizens of his Cittie in the Apostolique See beinge a Principal or a Chiefe with other Bishoppes that is to saie with the Princes of his people Here haue you founde the Princehoode of the See Apostolique not onely in Rome but also in the poore Cittie of Tagasta Likewise S. Chrysostome saithe Ad orandum nos assiduè prouocat Paulus Apostolorum Princeps Paule the Prince of the Apostles calleth vpon vs to be al waies praieinge So saithe S. Gregorie Paulus obtinuit totius Ecclesiae Principatum Paule obteined the Princehoode of the whole Churche So saithe Leo Iuuenalis Episcopus ad obtinendum Palestinae Prouinciae Principatum c. Bishop Iuuenal that he mighte obteine the Princehoode of the Prouince of Palestâ—e c. Briefely your owne singulare Doctoure Amphilochius writeth thus not of the Pope but of S. Basile the Bishop of Caesarea Additus est Principibus Sacerdotum Magnus ipse Princeps Sacerdotum Basile beinge deade was laide with other Bishoppes the Princes of Priestes beinge him selfe the Greate Prince of Priestes It was greate folie therefore M. Hardinge these Titles thus lieinge in Common to encroche the same onely to the Pope Notwithstandinge ye saie Thus nowe til then Verily when the Pope him selfe shal beginne to consider and to weighe your pleadinge then wil he saie he had a very vnskilful Proctoure For answeare to the reste I remit you to my Firste Replie The Apologie Cap. 6. Diuision 2. Whiche of the Anciente Fathers or Doctours euer saide that bothe the Svverdes are committed vnto you M. Hardinge Let S. Bernarde Writinge to a Pope answeare for the Pope He is a sufficient witnesse VVhere your selfe doo alleage him muche against the Pope you can not by the lawe iustly refuse him speaking for the Pope The spirituall swoorde you denie not I trowe Of the Temporall swoorde belonginge also to the Pope thus saithe S. Bernarde to Eugenius He that denieth this swoorde to be thine seemeth to me not to consider sufficiently the woorde of our Lorde saieinge thus to Peter thy Predecessour Put vp thy swoorde into the scaberde The very same then is also thine to be drawen foorthe perhaps at thy becke though not with thy hande Els if the same belonged in no wise vnto thee where as the Apostles saide Beholde there be twoo swoordes here Our Lorde woulde not haue answeared It is ynough but It is too muche So bothe be the Churches the spirituall swoorde and the materiall But this is to be exercised for the Churche and that of the Churche That by the haÌ„de of the Prieste this of the Souldier
Verus Dominus Temporalium ita vt possit auferre ab alio quod aliâs suum est tenet factum eius licet peccet Sed Praelati coeteri Principes non sunt Domini sed Tutores Procuratores dispensatores They saie that onely the Pope is the right Lorde of Temporal Possessions so that he maie put any man frō his owne And although he offende in so dooinge yet his dooinge taketh place But other Bishoppes and Princes be not Lordes but Ouerseers Bailifes and Stewardes Therefore Pope Adrian namely thus auanced him selfe aboue the Emperoure Fredericus 1. Imperator per nos imperat Vnde haber Imperium nisi à nobis Ecce in Potestate nostra est vt demus illud cui volumus Proptereà constituti sumus à Deo super Gentes Regna vt destruamus euellamus aedificemus plantemus By meane of vs the Emperoure is Emperour For whence hath he his Empiere but of vs Beholde it is in our hande to bestowe the Empiere vpon whome we liste And to that ende are we placed by God ouer Nations and Kingdomes that we should destroie and plucke vp and builde and plante Sutche proude vauntes the Pope maketh of him selfe without either shame of the worlde or feare of God The Apologie Cap. 6. Diuision 9. Whiche of the Anciente Learned Fathers with so precise and Mathematical Limitation euer surueied and determined you to be seuentie and seuen times greater then the Mightiest Kinges M. Hardinge Some mery felowe or other whiche thought he might be bolde to speake Mathematically so he kepte him selfe within compasse and without iuste reprehension For where as the spiritual power so farre passeth the Temporal as the Soule doth excelle the Body and the Heauens surmounte the Earth as S. Clement saithe and Gregorie Nazianzene you shoulde not so greatly be offended with the seuenty and seuen times greater dignitie and we neede not condemne him as an Heretike whiche woulde be pleasaunt in his algorisme especially Ioannes Andreae in the same place referring the mater to the Astronomers The B. of Sarisburie Somme Mery felovve I vvarrante you ye saie And thus nowe in mirthe nowe in sadnesse ye haue of longe time mockte the worlde and forced Kinges and Emperours to be your selaues As for youre Newe Doctours Iacke of Andrevve and Sir Clement as you euermore cal him the Apostles felovve we weighe them none otherwise then they be worthy But touching Gregorie Nazianzene it is true that he saith The Truthe and Might of Goddes Worde infinitely passeth al wordly Power But what maketh al this for the Pope that walloweth onely in his Temporalties and worldly cares and as wel in Preachinge Goddes Woorde and Ministring the Sacramentes as also in other Spiritual exercises is as farre inferioure to any meane Prieste as the Earth is inferioure to the Heauens Howe be it that it maie appeare what prety Mirthe ye haue made herewith one of youre owne Felowes saithe thus Ecclesiastici debent iudicare per contemptibiles id est per Laicos Secundum tenorem debitum Terreni Iuris The Ecclesiastical Officers or Bishoppes ought to iudge by them that be Vile and Contemptible that is to saie by the Laie Magistrates according to the tenoure and order of the Temporal Lavve Here in your Mirthe and pleasance in comparison of your selues ye cal Princes and Temporal Magistrates Vile and Contemptible Againe ye saie Patet Regnum siue Regimen Regale non esse acceptum à Deo Sed ipsum solùm permisit indignatus Et magis esset acceptum Deo quòd per solum Papam Mundus in omnibus regeretur It is plaine that the state of kingedome or kingely gouernement came not from God For God onely suffered it in his anger And it were more acceptable vnto God that the whole world were in al thinges gouerned by the Pope alone It were good ye should tel vs whether ye speake this onely in Mirthe and Game or els in earneste and good sadnesse Verily when yee so proudely compare the Pope to the Sonne and the Emperoure to the Moone youre meaning is that as the Moone hathe no light but onely from the sonne so the Emperoure hathe no Authoritie but onely that he receiueth from the Pope Notwithstandinge in this comparison Isidorus youre owne Doctour saithe yee are sowly ouerseene For thus he writeth Per Solem intelligitur Regnum per Lunam intelligitur Sacerdotium By the Sonne is meante Kingely Dignitie and by the Moone is meante Priesthoode Now therefore Iacke Andrevve youre mery man by this reckening maie caste youre coumptes backewarde saie The Emperoure is seuentie and seuen times greater then the Pope The Apologie Cap. 6. Diuision 10. Whiche of the Anciente Fathers euer saide that more ample Authoritie is geeuen to you then to the residue of the Patriarkes M. Hardinge The Fathers of the Nicene councel by witnes of ‡ Iulius the firste who then liued ‡ and those of the Councel of Sardica ‡ Athanasius and the Bishops of Aegipt Thebaida and Lybia and the Fathers of certaine other Councelles Aboue al other moste specially the firste Christian Emperoure Constantine the great VVho being fully instructed of the moste godly and learned Bishops of his time * what authoritie the successour of Peter had by * commission of our Sauiour Christ thought good by his * Emperial Commaundemente and decree to confirme ratifie and for his own persone to yelde vnto blessed Syluester then Pope and to his successours Bishoppes of Rome the same Authoritie and Superioritie not onely ouer Bishoppes and Patriarkes but also Power and Honour higher and greater then that of Kinges and Emperours The wordes of his solemne decree in that behalf made are these whiche as they are found in sundrie other Greeke writers so moste plainely in Matthaeus Hieromonachus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 VVhiche in oure tounge is this mutche to saie VVe geeue in decree and commaundemente to al Lordes and to the Senate of our Empire that the Bishop of Rome and the successour of S. Peter chiefe of the Apostles haue Authoritie and Power in al the worlde more then that of the Empire is and that he be honoured and worshepped more then the Emperoure and that he be Head of the foure Patriarchal seates and that thinges apperteininge to the right faithe be of him iudged and determined Iustinian the Emperour likewise made an expresse decree that the moste holy Pope of the elder Rome for these be his very woordes be taken accordinge to the determinations of the holy councels to be the firste and principal of al Bishoppes It were not hard to alleage mutche more for proufe hereof of good and sufficient authoritie but in a matter not doubtfull this may suffise The B. of Sarisburie This is a folie of al folies Yet is there no folie so greate but by wordes and countenance it maie be maineteined
Constantinople enioieth nowe the prorogatiue of Rome the Elder Nicephorus saithe Romano Constantinopolitano Episcopo ex aequo paria sunt dignitatis praemia honorum iura The title of dignitie and right of honoure geeuen to the Bishop of Rome and the Bishop of Constantinople are one and equal So likewise it was determined by Decree in the Councel of Constantinople Definimus Sedi Constantinopolitanae paria Iura Priuilegia cum Sede Veteris Romae Wee decree that the See of Constantinople shal haue Rightes and Priuileges equal with the See of Olde Rome Therefore as it is saide before Gennadius togeather with the Councel of Constantinople wrote thus vnto the Bishop of Rome Cures Sanctitas tua Vniuersas tuas Custodias tibique Subiectos Episcopos Let your Holinesse see vnto al youre owne Cures and to the Bishoppes that be subiecte vnto you S. Cyprian Cyrillus Athanasius and others writing either of or vnto the Bishop of Rome cal him not their Lorde and Maister vnto whom of duetie they ought Obedience but their Brother and their Felovve Seruaunte Yea the Pope him selfe in some cases hathe rather offered his Obedience vnto other Bishoppes For thus writeth Pope Liberius vnto Athanasius the Bishop of Alexandria Quaeso vt huic confessioni subscribas vt ego securior efficiar tua mandata inhaesitanter obeam I beseche thee to subscribe to this Confession that I maie be out of doubte and maie doo youre Commaundementes vvithout grudginge Yet nowe the Bishop of Rome to mainteine his title by a Write of Right for as mutche as the foure principal Patriarkes of the worlde haue forsaken him appointeth out Foure of his ordinarie Chaplens and geeueth them the names of foure Patriarkes The first for Constantinople the seconde for Alexandria the thirde for Antioche the fourthe for Hierusalem And thus hauing these foure at Commaundemente in his pleasante fauâ—â—e he ruleth and gouerneth the whole worlde In sutche a solemne brauerie the greate Cham of Tartarie at this daie after he hath dined him selfe soundeth out a trumpet and geeueth al the kinges and Emperours of the worlde leaue to goe to dinner and in this imagination and ioilitie he continueth his claime to the possession of al the worlde euen by as good right and Title as doothe the Pope And when so euer the Pope him selfe in his owne personne openly and solemnely saithe his Masse he commaundeth the Gospel and Epistle to bee readde in Greeke Whereupon his owne Maister of Ceremonies saithe thus Hanc consuetudinem hinc ortam puto vt appareat Romanam Ecclesiam in se continere Vtramque Gentem Hereof I thinke this Custome firste proceeded that hereby it maie appeare that the Churche of Rome conteineth in it Bothe Nations Al this notwithstaÌ„ding Antoninus saithe Hoc Graeci non credunt For al this the Greekes beleue it not The obiections of Iustinian and of the Councel of Sardica are answeared in my Former Replie to M. Hardinge The Apologie Cap. 6. Diuision 11. Whiche of the Anciente Holy Fathers euer called you Lorde and God M. Hardinge None that wise is so speaketh absolutely neuerthelesse in some certaine sense S. Clement calleth euery Bishop Terrenum quendam Deum a certaine earthly God as it is written I haue saide ye are Gods c. The B. of Sarisburie So that yee make not the Pope an Absolute God ye thinke ye maie otherwise cal him God safely and without preiudice A proper shifte to mainteine a vaine man in the possession of his Godhed In sutche a pleasant imaginatioÌ„ Antiochus sommetime the king of Syria intituled him selfe by the name of God So the Emperoure Domitian vsed to assigne his Proclamations Dominus Deus vester Domitianus Youre Lorde God Domitian So the Emperoure Caligula called him selfe Deum optimum Maximum Iouem Latialem The Beste and moste mighty God and the greate God Iuppiter of Italie So Sapores the great king of Persia called him selfe Fratrem Solis Lunae The brother of the Sonne and the Moone So the peeuishe Physician Menecrates called him selfe Iuppiter So Nicostratus called him selfe Hercules So Nicagoras made him selfe a paire of whinges and would needes be called the God Mercurius So Manichaeus the Heretique called him selfe the Holy Ghoste So the Romaines in olde times erected vp an Image in the honour of Simon Magus the Sorcerer with this Inscription or Posee Simoni Sancto Deo In the honoure of Simon the Holy God By this youre so handesome Distinction M. Hardinge of God Absolute and God not Absolute I see not but euery of these might wel and safely haue maineteined his title without blame Certainely in this arrogante vanitie scarcely any of al these was euer comparable to the Pope Pope Nicolas saithe Constat Summum Pontificem à Pio Principe Constantino Deum appellatum It is wel knowen that the Pope of the godly Prince Constantine was called God Likewise the Pope was wel content to suffer one of his Parasites to saie vnto him in the late Councel of Laterane Tu es alter Deus in terris Thou arte an other God in Earthe Likewise Cardillus the Spaniard in Defence of the Popes Laâ—e Chapter at Trident oftentimes calleth the Popes late Chapter at Tridente oftentimes calleth the Pope TerrenuÌ„ Deum An Earthely God By the same style and right whereby Holophernes sometime saide Nobuchodonosor est Deus Terrae Nabuchodonosor is the God of the Earth Vpon the Popes owne Clementines yée shal finde the mater thus taken vp qualified with greate indifferencie and modestle and thus specially noted in the Margine Papa nec Deus est nec Homo And to leaue other his like blasphemoâ—â— fond styles in an other like Glose yée shal finde it written thus Credere Dominum Deum Nostrum Papam non potuisse statuere prout statuit Haereticum censeretur To beleeue that Our Lorde God the Pope might not decree as he decreed it were a mater of Heresie Here haue we founde by expresse plaine woordes euen in the Popes owne Authentical and allowed Booke Our Lorde God the Pope These thinges might seeme vncredible had not S. Paule foretolde vs that the Man of Sinne should sit in the Temple of God and shewe him selfe as if he were God S. Gregorie writinge of Antichriste saithe thus Cùm sit damnatus Homo nequaquam Spiritus Deum se esse mentitur Whereas he is a damned man and not a Spirite by lieinge he faineth him selfe to be God Anselmus saithe Simulabit se Religiosum vt sub specie decipiat Pietatis Imò se Deum esse dicet se Adorari faciet atque regna Coelorum promittet Antichriste shal faine him selfe to be Holy that he maie deceiue menne vnder the Coloure of Holinesse Yea and he shal cal him selfe God and shal cause him selfe to be woorshipped and shal promise the Kingdome
dictum est Omnia Subiecisti sub pedibus eius The Popes Povver is greater then any other power that God euer made and after a sorte stretcheth it selfe vnto thinges iâ— Heauen thinges in Earth and thinges in Hel so that of that Povver the woordes maie be verified that are written by the Prophete Dauid Thou haste made al thinges subiecte to his fecte Camotensis saithe Papa Angelis praecipit potestatem habet in Mortuos The Pope commaundeth the Angels of God and hath power ouer the Deade Gregorius Haimburgensis saithe Vt termiuis vâ—ar suorum Adulatorum Papa Angelis habet imperare To vse the woordes of his Platterers the Pope hath Povver to commaunde the Angelles Therefore if any man happen to die vpon the waie as he passeth in Pilgremage to Rome Pope Clemente 6. commaundeth the Angelles of God to be at hande and to carrie his soule immediately into Heauen Hereto and to al other the like M. Hardinge saithe These Popes these Doctours these Fathers these Pages these Parasites herein were not Catholique Notwithstandinge he saithe further If the Pope for his fansie take sommewhat vpon him and sommetimes be a litle ouer bolde with Goddes Angelles to Commaunde them and Countremaunde them at his pleasure in sutche cases we ought not to be ouer scrupulous The Apologie Cap. 6. Diuision 16. Whiche of the Anciente Fathers euer saide that you are the Lorde of Lordes and Kinge of kinges M. Hardinge He vseth the cleane contrarie Title callinge himselfe Seruum Seruorum Dei the Seruante of the Seruantes of God Yet if he for the largenesse of his iurisdiction haue a number of Lordes and Kinges within his folde although he himselfe dothe not boast of it yet in a righte good sense that Title maie be geuen to him The B. of Sarisburie Notwithstandinge the Pope cal him selfe the Kinge of Kinges the Lorde of Lordes NotwithstaÌ„ding he saie The Emperour is so far inferiour vnto him as the Moone is inferioure vnto the Sonne Notwithstandinge he saie The Emperoure is but his Bailife his Stevvarde his Man Notwithstandinge he saie He hath power to set vp to put downe Kinges and Emperours at his pleasure Yet saithe M. Hardinge al this maie be spoken in right good sense for the Pope vseth a cleane contrarie Title and calleth him selfe Seruum Seruorum Dei The Seruante of Goddes Seruantes Thus he thinketh it sufficient to weighe matters onely by Title and not by Truthe How be it al this is but plaieinge vnder a Visarde The Diuel seldome theweth his hornes but rather changeth him selfe into an Angel of Lighte Touching this Title As the Pope calleth him selfe a Seruante euen so doothe the Emperoure likewise abase him selfe to the name of a Seruante If ye doubts hereof reade your owne Glose vpon your Decretalles The woordes there be these Etiam Imperator seipsum appellat Seruum LIkewise againe the same Glose saithe Papa se seruum appellat Imperator vocat se Seruum Vltimum Ecclesiae The Pope calleth him selfe a Seruante and the Emperoure calleth him selfe the vilest Seruante of the Churche Al this is nothinge els but a politique kinde of dissimulation and Hypocrisâ—e For if these be Seruantes I praie you then whoe be Lordes Herueus one of your owne Doctours hereof saithe thus Dicere quoâ—d talia dicum Summi Pontifices ex Humilitate est omniâ— o' perniciosum Et hoc est ponere os in Coelum Philosophus dicit hoc esse peccatum Ironiae quod opponitur virtuti Et addit tales humiles non esse virtuosos sed timidos blanditores Et Augustinus ait Cùm Humilitatis causa mentiris si noÌ„ eras peccator antequà m mentireris mentiendo peccator efficeris To saie that the Popes speake these woordes of Humilitie it were very hurteful And this is To set the face against the Heauens Aristotle saithe this is the â—â—nne of Dissimulation or Hypocrisie whiche is contrarie vnto vertue And saithe further that sutche humble menne are not vertuous but feareful and flatteringe And S. Augustine saithe when so euer thou speakest vntruthe vnder the coloure of Humilitie if thou were not a sinner before yet by tellinge vntruthe thou arte made a Sinner Good Reader pul of this painted Visarde vnder this vaine Title of Seruant of Seruantes thou shalt finde a Lorde of Lordes For proufe hereof thus the Pope him selfe saith Neither Emperoure â–ª nor Kinge maie iudge the Pope And his reason is this Non est Seruus supra Dominum For the Emperoure beinge a Seruante in not aboue the Pope that is his Lorde Thus yée sée he that so humbly calleth him selfe the Seruante of Seruantes if ye touche him or anger him wil suddainely change him selfe into the Kinge of Kinges and Lorde of Lordes For in these woordes he plainely expressely calleth the Emperoure the Seruante and him selfe the Lorde And what so euer he saide to the contrarie verily the Popes Exposition muste néedes be more Authentical then M. Hardinges He maketh the Emperoure to holde his Stitope He maketh the Emperoure to leade his Bridle He maketh the Emperoure to kisse his Foote He maketh the Emperoure to lie downe grouelinge and setteth his foote on his necke And yet stil calleth him selfe The Seruante of Seruantes Fewe good Seruantes wil be to homely with their Maisters Doctoure Bonner saithe thus Notwithstandinde the Pope be a very Roueninge Woulfe dressed in Sheepes clothinge yet he calleth him selfe The Seruante of Seruantes The Apologie Cap. 7. Diuision 1. We canne also goe further with you in like sorte What one amongest the whole numbre of the olde Bishoppes and Fathers euer taught you either to saie Priuate Masse whiles the people stared on or to lifte vp the Sacramente ouer your heade in which pointes consisteth nowe al your Religion Or els to mangle Christes Sacramentes and to bereue the people of the one parte contrarie to Christes Institution and plaine expresse woordes But that wee maie once come to an ende What one is there of al the Fathers whiche hath taught you to distribute Christes Bloude and the Holy Martyrs Merites and to selle openly your Pardons and al the roomes and lodginges of Purgatorie as a gaineful kinde of marchandise M. Hardinge Your obiections of Priuate Masse of liftinge vp the blessed Sacramente of ministringe the Communion vnder one Kinde be as common with you as Life be with Beggars and lies with Heretikes For in deede your questioÌ„s be but beggarly and hereticall Touching the same I haue saide so muche in roy answeare to M Iuell your nearest frende his Chalenge â–ª as here to rehearse it againe it is needelesse You maie seeke it there The Doctrine of pardons I iudge verily you vnderstande not Here is no oportunitie to discusse it The full treatise of the same requiringe a longe processe maie wel to an other time be differred Of Purgatorie I haue saide
vs as Life vvith Beggars And yet to my remembrance neither youâ— Priuate Masse nor your Halfe Communion was euer touched in this whole Apologie more then once before this place the Liftinge vp or Shevvinge of the Sacramente not once at al. ye shoulde haue weighed your aduantages better M. Hardinge before ye thus bestowed your lothesome quarrels But thought you in déede M. Hardinge I wil not saie as you saie that with so Lovvsy and Beggerly but that with so poore and simple stuffe ye shoulde be hable to mocke the worde Many fonde tales bothe you and your felowes haue sent vs ouer but a fonder tale then this tale is of your Pardonnes and Purgatories ye haue sente vs none I muste saie to you as S. Augustine sommetime saide to Iulianus the Pelagian Heretique Necessitate compellitur Talibus pannis indui dui tam magna etiam Vestra superbia Your Pride be it neuer so greate euen for very poore neede and beggerie is faine to couer it selfe with sutche soary clowtes I beseche you consider howe aduisedly and reuerently ye vse Goddes Holy VVoorde Thus you saie Nathan saide vnto Dauid Our Lorde hath put awaie thy sinne thou shalt not die Christe saithe The Sinne againste the Holy Ghoste shal not be foregeuen neither in this Worlde nor in the Worlde to comme Or as S. Marke saithe Non habeâ— remissionem in Aeternum Sed reus erit Aeterni delicti He hath not remission for Euer but shal be guilty of Euerlastinge Sinne. S. Paule saithe Beare ye one an others burthen Christe saithe to Peter To thee wil I geeue the Keies of the Kingedome of Heauen c. S. Paule said of him the had liued in shameful inceste with his Fathers wife Let sutche a one be geuen ouer to Satan These be your Scriptures hereof ye ful discretely and learnedly Conclude thus Ergo The Pope hath a vvarrante sufficiente to graunte his Pardonnes and that as vvel to the deade as to the quicke O M. Hardinge God is not to be mocked feare his iudgementes Abuse not his Name or Woord in vaine Ful wel you know that neither Dauid nor Nathan nor Christ nor Paule were PardoÌ„moungers What should I further saie to him that with so greate a countenance and so mutche a doo can saie nothinge Let S. Augustine briefely answeare al these vanities Thus he saithe Hoc quid est aliud nisi diligeÌ„ter pro humana suspicione contendere Scripturas Sanctas negligenter attendere What thing els is this but stoutely to striue for mannes fansie and negligently to consider Goddes Holy VVoorde The Prophete Dauid vpon whom ye woulde séeme to grounde these folies answeareth you thus Narrauerunt mihi iniqui fabulationes Sed non vt lex tua Domine The wicked haue tolde mee many foolishe tales But O Lorde nothinge as thy Lawe S. Augustine if he were nowe aliue he woulde saie of you as he saide of other your Predecessours O Vanitas vendens Vanitatem Vanitatem audituris Vanis Credituris O Vanitie sellinge Vanitie to them that wil heare Vanitie and Vaine are they that wil beleue it Leo saithe In hanc insipientiam cadunt qui cùm ad cognoscendam Veritatem aliquo impediuntur obscuro non ad Propheticas voces non ad Apostolicas Literas nec ad Euangelicas Authoritates sed ad semetipsos recurrunt Into this folie they fal that when they be hindered by some darkenesse from the knowledge of the Truthe goe not to the Voices of the Prophetes nor to the Writinges of the Apostles nor to the Authorities of the Gospelles but onely haue recourse vnto them selues Now somewhat to saie particularely of the mater touching your pardonnes your owne Doctoure Syluester Prieriâs Maister of the Popes Palaice writeth thus Indulgentiae Authoritate Scripturae non innotuere nobis Sed Authorirate Ecclesiae Romanae Romanorumque pontificum quae maior est Pardonnes are not knowen vnto vs by the Authoritie of the Scriptures but by the Authoritie of the Churche of â—ome and of the Popes whiche is greater then the Authoritie of the Scriptures Therefore M. Hardinge by this Doctours iudgemente it was greate folie to allege so many Scriptures for proufe of your Pardonnes For here yée are taught in good sadnesse that your Pardonnes can neuer be proued by any Scriptures It had benne mutche better for you to haue alleged onely the Popes Authoritie For that as your Syluester teacheth you far passeth al the Authoritie of the Scriptures Roffensis saithe Ego respondeo non satis certo constare à quo primùm Indulgentiae tradi coeperint Apud Priscos vel nulla vel certè quà m rarissima fiebat mentio de Purgatorio Quà m diu autem nulla esset cura de Purgatorio nemo quaesiuit Indulgentias Nam ex illo pendet omnis Indulgentiarum aestimatio Si tollas PurgatoriuÌ„ quorsum Indulgentijs opus erit Coeperunt Indulgentiae postquà m ad Purgatorij Cruciatus aliquandiu trepidatum est Thus I answeare It cannot wel appeare from whom Pardonnes first beganne Emonge the Olde Doctours and Fathers of the Churche there was either no talke at al or very litle talke of Purgatorie But as longe as Purgatorie was not cared for there was no man that sought for Pardonnes For the whole price of Pardonnes hangeth of Purgatorie Take awaie Purgatorie and what shal we neede of Pardonnes Pardonnes beganne when folke were alitle fraide with the paines of Purgatorie Iohannes Maior saithe De Indulgentijs pauca dici possunt per certitudinem quia Scriptura de illis expressè non loquitur Nam quod ditur Petro Tibi dabo Claues c. certum est quò'd oporâ—er intelligere illam Authoritatem cum sale Fatuae ergo superstitiosae sunt quaedam Indulgentiae viginti millium annorum of Pardonnes little maie be saide of certainetie for the Scripture expressely saith nothinge of them Touchinge that Christe saith vnto Peter Vnto thee wil I geeue the Keies c. we muste vnderstande this Authoritie with a corne of Salte otherwise it maie be vnsauery Therefore certaine of the Popes Pardonnes that promise tvventie thousande yeeres are foolishe and superstitious Your Schole Doctoures them selues were woonte sommetime to saie Inuentio indulgentiarum est pia fraus dolus non malus quò populus officioso errore trahatur ad pietatem The Diuisinge of Pardonnes is a Godly guile and a hurtelesse deceite to the intente that by a deuoute kinde of Eâ—oure the people maie be drawen to Godlinesse Alphonsus de Castro saithe Nulla res est quam minùs apertè Sacrae Literae prodiderint de qua minus vetusti Scriptores dixerint Non est mentio vlla de Indulgentijs There is nothing that the Scriptures haue lesse opened or whereof the Olde Learned Fathers haue lesse written then Pardonnes Of Pardonnes in the Scriptures and Doctoures there is no mention Of the shamelesse Marchandise and
sales hereof many Godly menne haue complained Ye haue turned godlinesse into gaine and as S. Peter saithe Through couetousnesse by fained speache yee haue made Martes and Markettes of the people One of your owne frendes saithe thus In multis Breuibus continentur tot Indulgentiae vt boni Viri mirentur vnquà m de Conscientia Papae vel alicuius boni viri potuisse illa procedere In many of theire Bookes there are conteined so many daies and yeeres of Pardonne that good menne marueile that thei coulde euer comme out by the Consente either of the Pope or of any other god man To conclude wée wil saie with S. Augustine Fratres Iesum Christum Iustum habemus Aduocatum apud Patrem Ipse est propitiatio pro Peccatis nostris Hoc qui tenuit Haeresim non fecit Hoc qui tenuit Schisma non fecit Vnde enim facta sunt Schismata Cùm dicunt homines Nos iusti sumus Nos Sanctificamus immundos Nos iustificamus impios Nos petimus nos impetramus My Brethera wee haue Iesus Christe the Righteous our Aduocate with the Father He is the Propitiation or Pardonne for our sinnes He that helde this neuer made Heresie He that helde this neuer made Schisme For whereof doo Schismes comme Hereof they comme when menne saie as now the Pope saithe Wee are righteous Wee doo make Holy the vnholy VVee doo iustifie the wicked VVee doo Praie we doo obteine The Apologie Cap. 8. Diuision 1. These menne are woonte to speake mutche of a certaine secrete Doctrine of theirs of their manifold sundrie readinges Let thē therefore bringe foorth sommewhat now if thei can that it maie appeare they haue at leaste readde or doo knowe sommewhat They haue often stoutely noised in al corners where they wente that al the partes of theire Religion be very olde and haue benne approued not onely of the multitude but also by the consente and continual obseruation of al Nations and times Let them therefore once in theire life she we this theire Antiquitie Let them make appeare to the eie that the thinges whereof thei make sutche a doo haue taken so long and large encrease Let them declare that al Christiā Nations haue agreed by consente to this theire Religion Nay nay they turne theire backes as we haue said already and flee from theire owne Decrees and haue cut of and abolished againe within ashorte space the same thinges whiche but a fewe yeeres before them selues had established for euermore foresooth to continewe Howe should one then truste them in the Fathers in the Olde Councelles and in the Woordes spoken by God They haue not good Lorde they haue not I saie those thinges whiche they boaste they haue thei haue not that Antiquitie thei haue not that Vniuersalitie they haue not that Consent neither of al places nor of al times And though they haue a desire rather to dissemble yet they themselues are not ignorant hereof yea and sommetime also thei let not to confesse it openly And for this cause they saie that the ordinaunces of the Olde Councelles and Fathers be sutche as maie nowe and then be altered and that sundrie and diuers Decrees serue for sundrie and diuers times of the Churche Thus lurke they vnder the name of the Churche and beguile seely creatures withe theire vaine glosinge It is to be merueiled that either menne be so blinde that thei can not see this or if thei see it that they can be so patient so lightly so quietly to beare it M. Hardinge Here is mutche a doo and as some saie greate boste and smal roste many wordes litle matter The sense of these wordes if I be not deceiued resembleth M. Iewels chalenging sprite as like as an E We resembleth a sheepe VVhat we can bringe foorth we saie not Neither thinke wee it necessary at your requeste to shewe what we haue reade and what we knowe Bosting and bragging shewes we leaue to you that you require hath ben sufficiently declared other wheres Al thinges are not to be saide at al times Yet two of your lowde lies besides other that you make here I wil be so bolde as to discouer The decrees of the late Tridentine Councel for that is it that you meane although they be not yet in al place moste exactely obserued yet be they not repealed cut of and abolished againe as you saie And what a fowle lie is that other where you saie that our selues acknowledge and confesse openly that the faith and Doctrine whiche we holde is not Auncient and Vniuersal for times places and consente of al VVhat els meane we when we chalenge vnto vs and claime the Catholike Faithe But this is your accustomed slender Rhetorike when proufes and argumentes of truthe faile you to vse the figure of impudent lieinge and saie that we our selues confesse it to be true whiche you impute vnto vs. VVhat so euer you saie in this place we maie of right retourne it euer to you So we do and so take you it c. And for ought that I can se yet as your Synagog had of late the beginninge so it is like shortely to haue an endinge The B. of Sarisburie Of al these woordes and others moe so vaine as many there is not one woord woorthe the answearinge What affiance M. Hardinge and his frendes haue in theire Antiquitie it maie appeare by the laste Diuision The Apologie Cap. 9. Diuision 1. But whereas they haue commaunded that those Decrees should be voide as thinges nowe waxen too olde and that haue loste theire grace perhaps they haue prouided in theire steede certaine other better thinges and more profitable for the people For it is a common saieinge with them that if Christe him selfe or the Apostles vvere aliue againe thei could neither better nor more Godly gouerne Gods Churche then it is at this presente gouerned by thē They haue put sommewhat in theire steede in deede but it is chaffe in steede of vvheate as Hieremie saith sutche thinges as according to Esaies woordes God neuer required at theire handes They haue stopped vp saith he al the vaines of the cleare springing vvater haue digged vp for the people deceiuable puddlelike pits ful of mire and filth vvhiche neither haue nor are hable to holde pure vvater They haue plucked awaie from the people the Holy Communion the VVoorde of God from whence al comforte shoulde bee taken the true Worshippinge of God also and the right vse of Sacramentes and Praier and haue geeuen vs of their own to plaie withal in the meane while Salte Water Oile Boxes Spittle Palmes Bulles Iubilees Pardons Crosses Sensinges and an endelesse rabble of Ceremonies and as a man might terme them with Plautus prety games to make sporte withal M. Hardinge Raile and reuel whiles ye wil the Churche is gouerned by disciline If Christe himselfe or his Apostles wee aliue againe the worde that is to saie the Doctrine of
our belefe no we preached and receiued in the Catholike Church ‡ neither shoulde be altered ‡ nor coulde be bettered ‡ For it is the same he taught him selfe And that we doubt not of it accordinge to his promise he hath sente the holy Ghoste to enforme the Churche of al truthe Remember you not who saide I am God and am not changed againe that the worde of God remaineth for euer This beinge true it is euident that we haue the sound and weighty wheate whiche no persecution of tyraunces and blasies of heretikes no contagion of euil manners for these fiften hundred yeeres could either blowe from the floore of our Lordes berne the Churche or corrupt VVe haue accordinge to the Apostles counsel kepte that hath ben committed vnto vs. VVe haue enioyed the fountaine of the water of life Ye charge vs soare that we haue plucked awaie from the people the holy communion the worde of God the true worshippinge of God the right vse of Sacramentes and praier VVho so euer taketh these fiue awaie wherein chiefly standeth our saluation the same is Antichrist VVere not that ye haue already done so mutche for vs as the worlde maie take you for impudente liers we would not quietly beare so greauous a matter But nowe that ye haue tried your selues so false of your worde we litle esteme it your railinge is no slaunder Lastly concerninge praier what hath ben ordeined by our holy forefathers of al ages directed with the sprite of God for the maintenance and encrease of it to Gods honoure al that in fewe yeres by the instincte of Sathan to promote his Kingedome ye haue vtterly abolished and by wicked violence brought the people from deuotion to a carelesse idlenesse from speaking to God with hartes and lippes to ‡ a spiritual dummesse from praiers ‡ to chapters from holy thinkinge to ‡ vnprofitable harkeninge Ye can not abyde salte water oyle palme the crosse incense c. no maruel No more can not the deuil who possesseth you and rideth you and after his owne wil driueth you from truthe from Christen Religion and from al Godlines VVere it so that your sprite coulde a waie with those thinges then were it not agreeing with his sprite Vntil ye geue place to the spirit of God who maie driue out of you the spiritie of Sathan we looke to heare no better tidinges of you The B. of Sarisburie Ye were sommewhat angrie M. Hardinge when ye thus besturred your selfe It pitieth me in your behalfe Christe and his Apostles yée saie neuer ruled the Churche in better order then it is nowe ruled by the Pope and his Cardinalles Euen so might they haue saide that had turned the House of God into a Caue of Theeues One of your frendes saith Apostolorū temporibus rudis adhuc erat Ecclesia In the time of the Apostles the Churche as yet was rude and Barbarous and out of order And being afterward reproued for his blasphemous speache he answeared lewdly in his pleasance Rudis indigestaqueue moles Others of you saie Christus in Coelo praesidet Papa in Terris residet Christe ruleth in Heauen the Pope in Earthe An other saithe Omnes Sanctiones Sedis Apostolicae sic accipiendae sunt tanquam ipsius Diuina voce Petri firmatae Al the Lawes of the Apostolique see of Rome muste so be taken as if they were confirmed by the Diuine voice of Peter him selfe An other saith Sicut ostium regitur Cardine ita Ecclesia Romana regitur Consilio Cardinalium As the doore is ruled by the hooke so is the Churche of Rome ruled by the Counsel of Cardinalles Therefore the Pope him selfe saithe thus vnto them Vos eritis Senatores vrbis Regum similes veri Mundi Cardines super quos militantis ostium Ecclesiae voluendum regendum est Ye shal be the Senatours of my Cittie and like vnto Kinges the very bookes and staies of the worlde vpon whom the very doore of y◠Churche Militante muste be turned and ruled Sutche are they whom S. Hierome imagineth thus to saie Non est Vir in domo Non est Christus Corporaliter in Ecclesia Surgens enim à mortuis Ascendit in Coelum nobisque Ministerium gubernandae Ecclesiae suam videlicet Domum reliquit My Husbande is not at home That is to saie Christe is not nowe Corporally in the Churche For beinge risen from the deade he is Ascended into Heauen and hath leafte vnto vs the gouernmente of his Churche that is the whole orderinge of his House True it is as you saie God is one and is not Changed And his Woorde endureth for euer But the Change is in you and not in God Goddes Woorde is the Woorde of Life your Woorde is the Woorde of Vanitie God the Father hath not planted it Therefore it shal be plucked vp by the rootes God saithe by the Prophete Malachie The lippes of the Prieste shal keepe knowledge and the people shal require the Lawe at his mouthe For he is the Angel of the Lorde of Hostes Vos autem recessistis de Via c. But you are gonne backe from the VVaie you haue offended many a one in the Lavve you haue broken the Couenante of Leui saith the Lord of Hostes And therefore haue I made you to be despised Yee haue changed the moste parte of the Apostles Doctrine And of al that euer they ordeined yée haue in a manner leafte nothinge standinge S. Bernarde saithe of your owne Churche of Rome A planta pedis vsque ad verticem Capitis non est sanitas vlla From the sole of the foote vnto the Crowne of the heade there is not one whole place And yet ye beare vs strongely in hande that Christe and his Apostles neuer ruled the Churche in better order then it is nowe ruled by the Pope and his Cardinalles Al the reste of your emptie talke is answeared sufficiently before Yet one pange of your Eloquence I maie not in any wise leaue vntouched Thus ye saie By the instincte of Satan ye haue brought the people from deuotion to carelesse idlenesse from speakinge to God with hartes and lippes to a spiritual doumbenesse from Praiers to Chapters from Holy thinking to vnprofitable hearkeninge If I were not wel acquainted with your speache M. Hardinge I could not thinke ye would so vnaduisedly bestowe your woordes I doubte not but euen hereby it shal soone appeare whether of vs hath wilfully broken the Apostles Orders refused the Godly Examples of the Holy Primitiue Churche of God Yee telle vs that the Readinge of the Scriptures vnto the people in the Churche of God is a Spiritual doumbenesse and a thinge vnprofitable as onely diuised of our selues and that as you saie by the instincte of Sathan and neuer before either knowen or vsed by any Catholique Learned Father Yet the Aunciente Father Origen saithe Iudaicarum Historiarum Libri traditi sunt ab Apostolis Legendi in
of the Romaine Churche is the infallible Rule of Faithe from the vvhiche the Holy Scripture taketh her force And Indulgences and Pardonnes saithe he are not made knovven to vs by the Authoritie of the Scriptures but they are knovven to vs by the Authoritie of the Romaine Churche and of the Bishoppes of Rome vvhich is greater then the Scriptures Pigghius also letteth not to saie that without the licence of the Romaine Church we ought not to beleue the very Plaine Scriptures Mutch like as if any of those that cannot speake pure and cleane Latine and yet can babble out quickely and readily a litle somme sutche Lawe Latine as serueth the Courte woulde needes holde that al others ought also to speake after the same waie that Mammetrectus and Catholicon spake many yeeres agoe and whiche themselues doo yet vse in pleadinge in Courte for so maie it be vnderstoode sufficiently what is said mennes desires maie be satisfied that it is a fondenesse nowe in the later ende to trouble the worlde with a newe kinde of speakinge and to cal againe the olde finenesse and eloquence that Cicero and Caesar vsed in theire daies in the Latine tongue So mutche are these menne beholden to the folie darkenesse of the former times Many thinges as one writeth are had in estimation oftentimes bicause thei haue benne once dedicate to the Temples of the Heathen Goddes Euen so wee see at this daie many thinges allowed highly sette by of these menne not bicause they iudge them so mutche woorthe but onely bicause they haue benne receiued into a custome and after a sorte dedicate to the Temple of God M. Hardinge Ye haue neuer donne with the Churche of Rome I cannot blame you For so long as that standeth without ye repente and tourne ye shal neuer be taken but for sutche as ye be Schismatikes and Heretikes But alas poore soules what thinke ye to ouerthrowe that Churche builded vpon the rocke Peter againste whiche hitherto neither tyrauntes nor Heretikes farre passinge you in lerninge and honestie of common life coulde euer preuaile Trowe ye to extinguishe that faithe of the Romaine Churche whiche is the same that was the faithe of Peter for which Christe praied that it should neuer faile Ye laboure in vaine VVel may Sathan winne you the Churche whiche our Lorde praied for by you shal he neuer winne Geue ouer therefore your vaine and wicked attemptes Trust not in the patches that falsely ye allege out of Canonistes gloses scholemen riminge poetes Heretikes and who so euer be they neuer so bad Some ignorant persons maye ye deceiue whose sinnes deserue the same VVhat Syluester Prierlât saieth I minde not here to discusse Neither where he saithe that you alleage haue you thought good to tel vs lest by perusinge the place we shoulde take you in a lie as we haue almoste in al your other allegations The like sinceritie you use in alleaginge Pighius VVe binde our selues neither to the wordes of Syluester nor of Pighius If they erre what is that to vs Let them beare theire owne burthen If they tel truth we beleue them for truthes sake If otherwise we leaue that parte for you to carpe If Syluester Prierias saide that for pointes of belefe the Doctrine of the Romaine Churche is a squire to trie theire truthe by the same beinge wel vnderstanded is right true Likewise if Pighius saie that the Romaine Churche sheweth vnto vs which be the approued and vndoubted scriptures and whiche be not this is so true as your selfe I suppose wil yelde thereunto As for that the scripture receiued from the Churche of Rome Authoritie credite and force if in your meaninge you exclude God that is your lie not Syluesters sentence If relation be made to vs that we ought not geue credite vnto it onlesse it had ben shewed to be holy scripture by the Romaine Church whiche is the true Churche of Christe in this sense be it Syluester or who els so euer saithe it it is a true saieinge and agreable to S. Augustine Ego Euangelio non crederem nisi me Catholicae Ecclesiae commueret Authoritas I woulde not beleue the Gospel except the Auctoritie of the Catholike Churche moued me And for that you alleage out of him touchinge indulgences truthe it is the ful and whole knowledge of them is not plainely opened vnto vs by expresse and euident wordes of Scripture no more then the mysterie of the blessed Trinitie baptizinge of infantes and many other truthes but rather by the doctrine of the Romaine Churche VVhere you tel vs of Pighius that he letteth not to saie that without the licence of the Romishe Churche for in that word you please your selfe wel we ought not to beleue the very plaine scriptures we wil proclaime you a lyer vntil you shewe vs where he spake so farre beside reason and lerninge The holy Churche doth not wil vs to staie from belefe of the scriptures vntil we haue licence but by al waies and meanes inuiteth and stirreth vs to beleue the truthe in the scriptures vttered The B. of Sarisburie The greatest weight hereof vpon twoo of your Doctoures Syluester Prieriâs and Albertus Pigghius Whoe 's credite notwithstandinge yée woulde faine otherwise saue vpright yet here as it séemeth ye are contente for shame to géeue them ouer VVe binde our selues yée saie neither to the woordes of Syluester nor of Pigghius If they erre what is that to vs This shorte and blunte answeare notwithstandinge it séeme to like wel you yet perhaps Prieriâs and Pigghius it woulde not like I sée no greate cause to the contrarie but either of them might as wel renounce your Authoritie and saie of you Wée are not bounde neither to M. Hardinges woordes nor to his felowes For that yée doubte the Truthe of our allegations reade Syluester Prieriâs Maister of the Popes Palace in his Booke entituled Contra praesumptuosas Martini Lutheri Conclusiones de potestate Papae His wordes there emongest others be these Quicūque nō innititur Doctrinae Romanae Ecclesiae ac Romani pōlificis tanquam Regulae Dei infallibili à qua etiam sacra Scriptura robur trahit Authoritatem Haereticus est Who so euer leaneth not to the Doctrine of the Romaine Churche and of the Bishop of Rome as vnto the infallible Rule of God of vvhiche Doctrine the Holy Scripture taketh force and Authoritie he is an Heretique Againe he saithe Authoritas Romanae Ecclesiae Romanique pontificis maior est c. The Authoritie of the Romaine Churche and of the Bishop of Rome is greater then the Authoritie of Goddes woorde As for that is here alleged of Pigghius it is the very sounde and sense of the greatest parte of his Common place De Ecclesia Of whoe 's iudgemente herein M. Caluine writeth thus Pighius ait Nullius Scripturae Authoritate quantum libet Clarae nostro quidem
keepe the Churche for euer as her owne neast And will you knowe who telleth vs this Euen God him selfe saieinge in his Prophete Esaye to Christe of his Churche I will make this couenaunt with them saithe our Lorde My spirite whiche is in thee and my woordes whiche I haue put in thy mouthe shall not departe from thy mouthe and from the mouthe of thy seede and from the mouthe of thy seedes seede saithe our Lorde from this time foorthe for euermore Againste this truthe what so euer ye bringe in reproufe of Popes liues whom not withstandinge moste impudently ye belie what vndiscrete saieinges or flateries so euer ye burthen the Canonistes with all tourneth to nothinge The Truthe remaineth vnshaken your spirite of lieinge scoffinge and malice thereby is discyfred The B. of Sarisburie Here yée saie Sir Defender is pretily séene in Humanitie For that yée saie séemeth to be his chiefe profession Verily M. Hardinge Wee are wel pleased to take sutche and so mutche learninge as you maie spare vs. Wee contende onely for Truthe and not for Learninge What so euer our Learninge be if it maie please God to vse it to his Glorie it shal be sufficiente be it neuer so litle How be it had you not had somme good likinge in your owne Learninge yée woulde not vpon so simple occasions haue vpbraided others Touchinge that sundrie of your Doctours haue saide the Pope cannot commit Simonie firste it shal be necessarie in that behalfe to consider the state and practise of the Churche of Rome S. Bernarde writinge vnto Pope Eugenius saith Limina Apostolorum Ambitio iam plùm terit quà m Deuotio Vocibus Ambitionis vestrum toto die resultat Palatium Ambitio in Ecclesia per te regnare molitur The Apostles Entries or Gates in Rome are nowe more worne with Ambition then with Deuotion Al the daie longe your Palaice ringeth with the sounde of Ambition By thy meanes Ambition seeketh to reigne in the Churche of God Againe he saith Sacri gradus dati sunt in occasionem turpis Lucri quaestū aestimant Pietatem The Holy Degrees or Ecclesiastical roumes are geeuen ouer to occasion of filthy gaine and the same gaine they coumpte Holinesse Ludouicus Viues saith Romae cùm omnia propè vendantur emantur nihil tamen agas sine Lege ac Formula atque euam Sanctissimi iuris At Rome not withstandinge al thinges be boughte and solde yet maie yee doo nothinge there without Fourme and Order and that of most Holy Religion Your owne Glose saithe Roma est Caput Auaritiae Ideò omnia ibi venduntur Rome is the Heade of Couetousnesse Therefore al thinges there are boughte and solde Where as also Iohannes Andreae your greate Canoniste noteth this Verse alludinge to the name of Rome Roma manus rodit quos rodere non valet odit Durandus saithe Simonie so reigneth in the Churche of Rome as though in deede it vvere no Sinne. To be shorte these twoo Veries were commonly spreadde of Pope Alexander Vendit Alexander Claues Altaria Christum Vendere iure potest Emerat ipse priús Pope Alexander maketh sale of his Keies of his Aultares and of Christe him selfe VVel maie he lesse these thinges for he him selfe paied wel for them Notwithstanding ye doubte not but al this by a prety soary Distinction maie soone be excused For thus yée saie Verum est in ijs quae sunt Simoniaca de lure Posiiuo solùm Sed non in ijs quae sunt Simoniaca de lure Diuino Whereby ye saie the Authoure meaneth that the Pope is not vnder the Rules of Simonie concerninge sutche Lawes paines as he him selfe or his Predecessoures haue made and prouided in that behalfe And therefore as your modeste manner is yee saie wee haue falsely alleged and shamefully belied Summa Angelica But why doo you not better open the seueral partes of your Distinction Why doo ye not better tea◠he vs to vnderstande what is Simonie by Lavve Positiue and what is Simonie by the Lavve of God And why doo yée not declare eche parte by plaine Examples Seeinge you thus to steale awaie in the darke wée haue somme cause to doubte your dealinge How be it to make the matter plaine your owne Glose saith thus Simoniaca desui Natura sunt quae Nouo aut Vereri Testamento prohibita sunt vt Emere vel Vendere Sacramenta Simoniaca de Iure Positiuo sunt quae solùm sunt Spiritualia ex Constitutione Ecclesiae vt sunt Tituli Beneficiorum Ecclesiasticorum c. These thinges are Simoniacal of their ovvne Nature that are forebidden in the Olde and Newe Testamente as to buie or selle Sacramentes These thinges are Simoniacal by Lavve Positiue whiche are Spiritual onely by the ordinance of the Churche Sutche are the Titles of al Ecclesiastical Benefices and Dignities Ac be Bishoprikes Deanries Abbies Archedeaconries c. Thus M. Hardinge if your Pope selle Sacramentes whiche wil yéelde him but litle monie He maie be charged with Simonie But if he selle Bishoprikes Deanries Abbies Archedeaconries Prebendes Personages neuer so many yet by the shifte of your prety Distinction noman maie charge him For al these thinges are Spiritual onely by the Popes ovvne Positiue Lavve that is to saie by the Ordinance of the Churche And thinke you not so good a Distinction was wel woorthe the findinge oute One of your owne Companie speakinge hereof saithe thus O Petre quantam animarum multitudinem cateruatim transmisit transmittit ad Infernum haec Superstitialis Damnanda Distinctio Multis est occasio viam aperit and ruinam Damnationis aeternae O Peter Peter howe many Soules hath this Superstitious and Damnable Distinction sente by heapes and yet doothe dayly sende into Hel It is an occasion vnto many and openeth the waie vnto the fal of Euerlastinge Damnation To make the mater plaine Baldus saithe Simonia non cadit in Papam recipientem Though the Pope take monie yet no Simonie can touche him In like sorte saithe his felowe Bartolus Papa non dicitur facere Simoniam conferendo Beneficia Dignitates accepta Pecunia The Pope is not saide to commit Simonie although he take Monie for the Benefices and Dignities of the Churche Theodoricus saithe Papa non potest committere Simoniam Sic tenent Iuristae Quia Simonia excusatur per Authoritatem eius The Pope cannot commit Simonie So holde the Canonistes For Simonie by his Authoritie is excused Felinus saithe Ista Glosa videtur dicere quód Papa non committit Simoniam in recipiendo pecuniam pro collatione Beneficiorum ex quo non ligatur proprijs Constitutionibus Tamen Moderni tenent indistinctè quòd Papa non inuoluatur Crimine Simoniae Et ita ego teneo Et sic est seruanda communis opinio Ergo Papa potest dictam prohibitionem Simoniae firmatam in Vniuersali Ecclesia limitare respectu Apostolicae
Sedis Et si diceres Requiritur in talibus apparens causa dico hîc esse causam apparentem Nam cessante tali redditu qui maximus est attenta hodierna Tyrannide Sedes Apostolica contemneretur This Glose seemeth to saie that the Pope committeth not Simonie receiuinge monie for the bestowinge of Benefices for as mutche as the Pope is not bounde to his owne Constitutions Yet nowe adaies the Lawiers holde without any sutche Distinctiō of Lavve Positiue and Lavve of God that the Pope cannot in any wise comme within the daunger of Simonie And so I mee selfe doo holde and so the cōmon opinion must be holden Therefore notwithstandinge the Lawe that forebiddeth Simonie take place in the whole Vniuersal Churche yet in respecte of the Apostolique See of Rome it maie be restrained But thou wilte saie In sutch cases there ought to be some apparente cause I telle the that there is a cause apparente For this reuene we of Simonie whiche is very greate beinge once cutte of consideringe the Tyrannie that nowe is the Apostolique See woulde be despised By this authoritie it appeareth The Pope is not able to mainteine his Estate and Countenance nor to saue al thinges vpright without Simonie Panormitane saithe Etsi Papa accipiat pecuniam pro collatione alicuius Praelaturae aut Beneficij tamen Dominus Cardinalis ait Non committitur Simonia Notwithstandinge the Pope take monie for the bestoweinge of a Bishoprike or of a Benefice yet my Lorde Cardinal saithe there is committed no Simonie Archidiaconus Florentinus saithe Papa recipiendo pecuniam non praesumitur animo vendendi recipere Sed vt illa pecunia ad vsum suum conuertatur cùm Papa sit Dominus Rerum Temporalium per illud dictum Petri Dabo tibi Omnia Regna Mundi The Pope receiuing monie for Bishoprikes or Benefices is not thought to take it by waie of sale but onely to turne the same monie to his owne vse For the Pope is Lorde of al vvorldly goodes as it appeareth by the woordes of Peter whiche woo◠des notwithstandinge Peter neuer spake for they were spoken by Sathan Vnto thee wil I geeue al the Kingedomes of the VVorlde Againe Felinus saith Quod datur Papae datur Sacrario Petri nec est proprium Papae Sed prodest danti tanquam facienti opus pijssimum What so euer is geeuen to the Pope for Bishoprike or Benefce by waie of Simonie it is geeuen to S. Peters Treasurie Neither is it the Popes owne seueral goodes But it is auaileable to the geeuer as vnto one that doothe a moste Godly deede Sutche a special grace hath the Pope Of moste Diuelishe Vice he is hable to make moste godly Vertue Hostiensis saithe Papa potest vendere Titulum Ecclesiasticum vt Episcopatum Abbatiam c. The Pope maie selle any Ecclesiastical Title or Dignitie as a Bishoprike or an Abbie without danger of Simonie But what speake wee of the Pope Your Cardinalles them selues by your fauourable Constructions and godly orders are likewise Priuileged to committe Simonie safely and freely without blame Panormitane saith Cardinalis pro Palafreno à nobili viro recepto non praesumitur committere Simoniam A Cardinal for receiuinge a Palfraie of a Noble Man for a Benefice or a Bishoprike is not thought to commit Simonie Thus whereas Christe draue Buiers and Sellers out of the Churche you by your proper Distinctions haue receiued in Buiers and Sellers and thruste oute Christe S. Hierome saithe Per Nummularios significantur Beneficij Ecclesiastici venditores qui Domum Dei faciunt Speluncam Latronum By the Exchangers are signified the Sellers of Ecclesiastical Benefices whiche make the House of God a Denne of Theeues In your owne Decrees it is written hus Tolerabilior est Macedonij Haeresis qui asserit Spiritum Sanctum esse Seruum Patris Filij Nam isti faciunt Spiritum Sanctum Seruum suum The Heresie of Macedonius that saide the Holy Ghoste is Seruante and sclaue to the Father and to the Sonne is more tolerable then is the Heresie of these simonistes For these menne make the Holy Ghoste their owne Seruante Yet yée saie yee are wel assured that the Truthe is in the Churche of Rome and shal neuer departe from thence notwithstandinge any disorder or faulte whatsoeuer there committed And for proufe thereof yee allege as yée saie the Woordes of God him selfe in y◠Prophete Esaie Al be it in that whole Prophete there is not one woorde expressely mentioned of the Churche of Rome Sutche a fantasie as it appeareth was sommetimes in the Heretiques called the Manichees For thus thei saide A Principibus Gentis Tenebrarum Lumen ne ab ijs aufugeret tenebatur The Princes of the Nation of Darkenesse helde faste y◠Light leaste it shoulde flee from them For euen so doothe the Pope and his Cardinalles holde the Truthe as the Princes or Powers of Darkenesse helde the Lighte It was harde dealinge for you to binde Christe in Recognisance not to departe from the Pope yee should rather haue bounde the Pope not to departe from Christe S. Hierome saithe Prophetae Hierusalem non habent in ore Prophetiam Et in Domino requiescunt dicunt Non venient super nos mala Quorum causa Speculatoriū Dei hostili aratro diuiditur Et locus quondam pacis ruinis plenus fit Templum Domini in vepres spinasque conuertitur est Habitaculum bestiarum The Prophetes of Hierusalem haue neuer a woorde of Prophesie in their mouthes Yet they reaste them selues vpon the Lorde and saie There shal no euil comme vpon vs. For thene sakes the Watche Tower of the Lorde is turned vp with the enimies Pleughe the place of peace is ful of ruine the Temple of the Lorde is turned into Breeres and Thornes and is becomme a stable of wilde beastes The Apologie Cap. 11. Diuision 2. But what if Ieremie telle them as is afore rehearsed that these be Lies What if the same Prophete saie in an other place that the selfe same menne whoe ought to be Keepers of the Vineyarde haue brought to nought and destroied the Lordes Vineyarde Howe if Christe saie that the same persones whoe chiefely ought to haue a care ouer the Temple haue made the Lordes Temple a denne of Theeues The B. of Sarisburie Here come you in with your whatiffes whiche commonly you vse when other Rhetorike faileth you VVee tell you plainely without any iffes that Ieremie meante of you and suche as you be and calleth your whole newe fangled Doctrine Verba mendacij the woordes of lieinge earnestly geuinge warninge that menne geue no credite to them His other rebuke perteineth also to you VVhen were euer suche Theeues in the Churche of God as yee are The Apologie Cap. 12. Diuision 1. If it be so that the Churche of Rome cannot erre it muste needes folowe that the good lucke thereof is farre
The B. of Sarisburie Al this whole mater touchinge as wel Kinge Iehosophat as also Amarias the Highe Prieste is answeared in that is paste before The Apologie Cap. 11. Diuision 11. Kinge Iosias with greate diligence put the Priestes Bishoppes in minde of their dueties Kinge Iohas bridled the Riote and Arrogancie of the Priestes Iehu put to deathe the wicked Prophetes M. Hardinge The puttinge of Priestes and Bishoppes in minde of their dutie is not a Supremacie in determininge Ecclesiasticall causes And whereas you saie that Kinge Ioas bridled the râ—ot and arrogancie of the Priestes if it were so it was well donne But I finde not those woordes in the texte Concerninge that Iehu did it is a mere temporall Office to put false preachers and Heretikes to death Neither can it belonge to Priestes onlesse they haue also ciuill iurisdiction Muche lesse dothe that acte proue that Kinges be Supreme heades ouer the Churche and ought to be Iudges in controuersies and questions of Religion The B. of Sarisburie Concerninge the storie of Kinge Iohas I reporte me to that is written of him in the Booke of Kinges He sequestred the Oblations of the people whiche the Priestes had bestowed lewdely and wantonly vpon them selues and by his owne Authoritie turned the same to the Reparations of the Temple Of Kinge Iosias it is written thus Constituit Iosias Sacerdotes in officijs suis Kinge Iosias appointed the Priestes to minister in theire seueral Offices And againe Mundauit Iudam Hierusalem ab Excelsis Lucis Kinge Iosias cleansed and ridde Iuda and Hierusalem from their Hille Aultars and their Groaues But yée wil saie He did al thinges by yâ— discretion of the Priestes Bishoppes This thinge in deede is necessarie while the Priestes and Bishoppes be learned and godly But Kinge Iosias did far otherwise for he sent the Bishop him selfe vnto Olda the Prophetisse to learne the discretion and Iudgemente of a VVooman and so was directed in maters of Highest Religion by a VVooman and not by a Prieste These Examples be so manifeste that one of your Felowes there is faine thus to excuse the mater by ouer mutche Antiquitie If we woulde in these daies saithe he vse in all pointes the Examples of the Olde Lawe there woulde folowe an huge number of inconueniences It is no good reason to saie that therefore our Kinges nowe a daies muste haue the like Authoritie Thus saithe he As though the Princes righte were now abated and altered as the Ceremonies of the Lawe were otherwise nowe then it was before Or as if the Comminge of Christe into the worlde and the Preachinge of the Gospel had pourposely benne to represse and pulle downe the State of Kinges The Apologie Cap. 12. Diuision 1. And to rehearse no more Examples out of the Olde Lawe let vs rather consider sithence the Birthe of christe howe the churche hath benne gouerned in the time of the Gospel M. Hardinge If we consider the Office of a Kinge in it selfe it is one euery where not onely amonge Christen Princes but also amonge Heathen * The definition of a Kinge whiche agreeth to Iulius Cesar or to Alexander the Greate as they were Monarkes and Princes is one with the definition of a Kinge whiche agreeth to Henry the Eight or to Charles the Fifthe So that no more could Kinge Henry as Kinge meddle with Religion then Alexander or Iulius Cesar * His place is chiefe amonge the laie euen when they are in the Churche at the Seruice of God and without the Churche in all Temporall thinges and causes he is ouer the Priestes themselues And because all these examples are taken out of the Olde Testamente I will geeue thee a true resolution out of the same Booke what auctoritie Priestes had and what auctoritie Kinges had Moses gaue this rule concerninge the same matter If saithe he thou perceiue an harde and doubtfull iudgement to be with thee betweene bloude and bloude cause and cause Lepre and Lepre and seest the woordes of the iudges within thy gates to varie arise and goe vp to the place whiche thy Lorde God shall chose and thou shalte come to the Priestes of the stocke of Leui and to the Iudge that shall be for the time and thou shalte demaunde of them who shall shewe the truthe of iudgemente to thee But neither the Prieste by this place may medle with that iurisdiction whiche belonged to the Temporall iudge neither the Iudge with that whiche was spirituall and belonginge onely to the Prieste For of such causes Azarias the Priest and Bishop saide to Kinge Ozias It is not thy office Ozias to burne incense vnto our Lorde It is the office of the Priestes That is to saie of the Sonnes of Aaron VVho are consecrated to doo suche Ministeries But this the Kinge mighte doo euen in matters of Religion VVhen the High Priest had geuen sentence he might see the execution thereof to be donne But otherwise what so euer Kinge or Temporal iudge might not doo in his owne person ‡ muche lesse mighte he iudge whether an other did well therein or no. And this concerninge the Olde Testament The B. of Sarisburie The Office of a Kinge yée saie was no more in Kinge Henry the Eighth or in Charles the Fifthe then it was in the Heathen Princes Iulius Caesar or Alexander the Greate And therefore yée saie a Christian Princes Office standeth onely in Maters Temporal and for that cause yee so often calle him a Mere Laie Temporal Prince as if he were in Authoritie not mutche better then an Heathen Magistrate Euen so M. Harding is your Pope no more a Bishop or perhaps mutche lesse a Bishop then Annas and Caiphas Neither is your Prieste more a Prieste then the Prieste of Dagon or Baal The difference standeth not in Office but onely in Truthe Yet neuerthelesse yée knowe that Heathen Princes had euermore a Soueraine Authoritie not onely ouer theire Priestes and Bishoppes but also ouer al Cases of Religion Aristotle saithe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The Kinge that is Lorde and Ruler of thinges that perteine vnto the Goddes And therefore Socrates in his storie saithe Imperatores vnà complexi sumus c. Wee haue also herein comprised the Emperours Liues for that sithence the Emperours were first Christened the affaires of the Churche haue hanged of them and the greatest Councelles bothe haue benne and are keapte by theire aduise Yee saie The Prince in doubteful Cases was commaunded to take Counsel of the Highest Prieste This is true But wil yée conclude hereof that the Highest Prieste maie saie doo what he listeth without controlmente What if the Highe Prieste woulde answeare thus as he answeared sommetime in déede This Christe is a Samaritane a deceiuer of the people and hath a Diuel What if he teare his owne roabes for anger and crie oute He Blasphemeth he is vvoorthy to die Yet
the Bishop of Lilybaeum or the Pope in whose name he gaue sentence a Ciuil Magistrate VVhat is impudencie what is licentious lieinge what is deceitful dealinge if this be not Of Iuuenalis Archibishop of Hierusalem and Thalassius Archebishop of Caesaria in Cappadocia thus mutche I saie They might wel haue a rebuke for misusinge them selues in the seconde Councel at Ephesus where they sate like Iudges without authoritie of thee See of Rome whiche as Lucentius saide in the Synode of Chalcedon was neuer orderly donne neither was it lauful to be donne they might I saie take a rebuke for so presuming besides the Popes authoritie but for as mutche as they mainteined not thiere fact but among other Bishoppes of the Eastcried out Omnes peccauimus Omnes veniam postulamus VVee haue al sinned VVee al beseche pardonne Yea for as mutche as Iuuenalis reiected the faulte vpon Elpidius who did not commaunde Eusebius the accuser of Eutyches to comme in and Thalassius saide he was not cause thereof it maie wel be they were pardonned although the honorable Iudges and Senate saide vnto them In Iudicio Fidei non est defensio In a Iudgement of Faithe this is no excuse But in case they were deposed then are we sure it was not donne by the Ciuil Magistrates otherwise then that they might allowe and execute the sentence of Deposition before geeuen The B. of Sarisburie If the Councel of Chalcedon seeme ouer longe with better reading yee maie make it shorter That Dioscorus Iuuenalis and Thalassius were al three condemned in that Councel that yee saie yee finde not Howe be it if â—ee had sought it better yee might soone haue founde it One of your owne Frendes of Louaine saithe that herein yee were toomutche ouerseene The very woordes truely recorded in the Councel are these Videtur nobis iustum esse eidem poenae Dioscorum Reuerendum Episcopum Alexandriae Iuuenalem Reuerendum Episcopum Hierosolymorum Thalassium Reuerendum Episcopum Caesariae Cappadociae subiacere à Sancto Concilio secundum Regulas ab Episcopali dignitate fieri alienos Vnto vs it seemeth right that Dioscorus the Reuerende Bishop of Alexandria and Iuuenalis the Reuerende Bishop of Hierusalem and Thalassius the Reuerende Bishop of Caesaria in Cappadocia shoulde be put to the same pounishemente and by the holy Councel accordinge to the Canons shoulde be remoued from their Episcopal dignities The which woordes yee might also haue founde fully reported in Euagrius Likewise also saithe Pope Leo touchinge the same De nominibus Dioscori Iuuenalis Eustachij vel potiùs Thalassij ad Sacrum Altare non recitandis dilectionem tuam hoc decet custodire Touchinge the names of Dioscorus Iuuenalis and Eustachius or rather Thalassius not to be rehearsed at the Holy Aultar whiche was the Communion Table yee must keepe this order But yee saie Notwithstanding these Bishoppes were condemned in the Councel yet the Ciuile or Laie Iudges condemned them not For they were there ye saie onely to see good order and to keepe peace This M. Hardinge is your owne onely idle gheaste without any manner further Authoritie onely grounded vpon your selfe Certainely the woordes of the Councel be plaine Gloriosissimi Iudices amplissimus Senatus dixerunt The moste Noble Iudges and moste woorthy Senate saide Likewise saithe Euagrius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The Lordes of the Emperours Councel decreed these thinges Neither were the Ciuile Iudges then so scrupulous to thinke thei might not deale in Cases of Religion as it maie wel appeare by theire woordes For thus they saie Gloriosissimi sudices Amplissimus Senatus dixerunt De Recta Catholica Fide perfectiùs sequenti die conuenienti Concilio diligentiorem Examinationem fieri opottere perspicimus The moste Noble Iudges and moste vvoorthy Senate saide Wee see that touchinge the Right Catholique Faithe the nexte daie when the Councel shal meete there muste be had a more diligente Examinatione And when the maters were concluded and published the Bishoppes of the East brake out into fauourable shootes in this sorte Iustum Rectum IudiciuÌ„ Vita longa Senatui Multi anni Imperatori Iuste and Righte is this Iudgemente Longe life vnto the Senate Many yeeres vnto the Emperoure For in al cases as wel Ecclesiastical as Temporal the Emperoure was Iudge ouer al. What so euer the Councel had determined without the Emperoures consent it had no force And therefore bothe the Bishoppes and other Temporal Iudges in the Councel vsed oftentimes to suspende to staie their Decrees in this sorte Videtur nobis iustum si placuerit Diuinissimo Pijssimo Domino nostro Vnto vs it seemeth right if it shal also like our moste vertuous and moste Godly Lorde the Emperoure In the ende thei conclude thus Omnibus quae acta sunt ad Sacrum Apicem referendis So that al our dooinges be remitted to the Emperoures Maiestie Al whiche woordes are borowed as the recte out of the Ecclesiastical storie of Euagrius Yee saie luuenalis and Thalassius might wel haue a rebuke for sittinge like Iudges in the Seconde Councel of Ephesus without Authoritie of the Pope O M. Harding either yee are mutche deceiued and prefume to speake before yee knowe whiche were great folie or els yee speake directely against your knowledge Conscience and willingely seeke to deceiue others whiche were greate wickednesse Verily ye might easily haue knowen that these three Bishoppes were condeÌ„ned not for intruding vpon the Popes authoritie as ye haue imagined but onely for Condemninge other Godly Bishoppes wickedly and without cause The woordes of the Councel are plaine Gloriosissimi Iudices dixerunt Vos quidem primitùs docuistis quia per vim necessitatem in pura Charta Coacti estis subscribere ad damnationem Sanctae memoriae Flauiani Orientales qui cum ipsis erant Reuerendissimi Episcopi clamauerunt Omnes peccauimus Omnes veniam postulamus The moste Nolse Iud 〈◊〉 lande yee haue here proued before vs that yee were driuen by force and violence in a â—â—anke paper to subscribe your names to the Condemnation of Flauianus of godly memorie The Bishoppes of the Easte and other Reuerende Bishoppes that were with them cried out VVe haue al offended VVe al desire pardoÌ„ne This in dede was theire faulte M. Hardinge Al that you imagine of vsurpinge the Popes Authoritie is but a fansie For the Popes Huge and Vniuersal Authoritie whereby nowe he clamenâ—a the whole Iurisdiction of al the worlde at that time was not knowen The same Councel of Chalcedon maketh him Equal in Authoritie and Dignitie with the Bishop of Constantinople The woordes be these Sedi Senioris Romae propter Imperium Ciuitatis illius Patres consequenter Priuilegia reddiderunt Et cadem intentione permoti Centum quinquaginta Deo amantissimi Episcopi aequa Sanctissimae Sedi Nouae Romae Priuilegia tribuerunt rationabiliter iudicantes Imperio Senatu Vrbem
you haue eies to sée them are no smal Miracles S. Chrysostome saith The Conuersion of the vvorlde is a Miracle S. Augustine saithe Modò Caro Coeca non aperit oculos Miraculo Domini Et Cor Coecum aperit oculos Sermone Domini Nowe adaies the Blinde fleashe openeth not her eies by the Miracle of our Lorde Put the Blinde harte Openeth his eies at the VVoorde of our Lorde And againe Modò Aures Corporis surde◠non aperiuntur Sed quà m multi habent clausas Aures Cordis quae tamen Verbo Dei penetrante patescant Nowe adaies the deafe Eares of the Body be not opened yet many there are that haue the Eares of their harte shut vp whiche Eares not withstandinge are opened by entringe of the VVoorde of God Therefore wèe maie rightly saie to you with other woordes of S. Augustine Quisquis adhuc Prodigia vt credat inquirit Magnum est ipse prodigium qui mundo credente non credit Who so euer yet requireth Miracles to bringe him to the Faithe is him selfe a greate Miracle that the worlde beleeuinge remaineth stil in vnbeliefe Where as the Phariseis saide of Christe Lette him nowe comme downe from the Crosse and we wil beleue him S. Hierome saithe vnto them Etiamsi de Cruce descenderet similiter non crederetis Yea although he shoulde comme downe from the Crosse yet woulde ye not beleeue him But it were a worlde to beholde the Glorious Countenance of your Miracles Your Crosses can speake youre Idolles can goe your Images can lighte their owne Lampes your Holy VVater is hable to calme the Sea to chase awaie Mise and to make barren Wemen to conceiue If yée doubte hereof conferre with M. Cope one of your owne Louanian companie or with that Woorthy Prelate the Bishop of Verona your Holy Father Lipomanus I am ashamed to remember that you are not ashamed euen nowe in these daies to publishe in Writinge How be it sutche Religion sutche Miracles S. Hierome saithe Mendacium Antichristi Christi Veritas deuorabit The Truthe of Christe shal deucure and consume the Falsehedde of Antichriste The Apologie Cap. 16. Diuision 2. And as wee know bothe Christe him selfe al good menne heretofore haue donne we haue called home againe to the Original and firste Fundation that Religion whiche hathe benne fowly neglected and vtterly corrupted by these menne For wee thought it meete thence to take the Paterne of Refourminge Religion from whence the grounde of Religion was firste taken Bicause this one Reasone as saithe the moste Auncient Father Tertullian hathe greate force againste al Heresies Looke vvhat soeuer vvas firste that is trevve and vvhat soeuer is later that is corrupte Irenaeus oftentimes appealed to the Oldest Churches whiche had benne nearest to Christes time whiche it was harde to beleue had benne in erroure But why at this daie is not the same common regard consideration had Why returne wee not to the Paterne of the Olde Churches Why maie not we heare at this time amongest vs the same saieinge whiche was openly pronounced in times paste in the Councel at Nice by so many Bishoppes Catholique Fathers and no body once speakinge againste it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Holde stil the Olde Customes M. Hardinge Ye saie muche in your owne commendation but lies be no proufes Ye haue not called Religion home againe to the Original and firste Fundation as ye saie but ye haue quite ouerthrowen all true Religion from the fundation As for your apishe noueltie ye haue taken the paterne thereof from Satan auctour of diuision the auncient ennemie of Christe and of his true religion VVee admitte the saieinge of Tertullian though it be not altogeather as ye alleage it that this reason hath greate force against all heresies VVhat so euer was firste that is true what so euer is latter that is corrupt Of the Blessed Sacramente Christe saide firste c. Ye woulde seeme to be faine that we folowed the aduise of Irenaeus VVe are contente with all our hartes And with Irenaeus we appeale to that tradition whiche is from the Apostles whiche as he saieth is kepte in the Churches by Priestes that succeded them VVith Irenaeus leauinge other Churches whose successions of Bishoppes it were a longe woorke to rehearse we require to haue recourse for triall of our Faithe to the Tradition of doctrine of the Romaine Churche whiche he termeth Greatest Oldest best knowen to al founded and set vp by the twoo moste glorious Apostles Peter and Paule VVe appeale to the Faithe of that Churche taught abrode in the world and by successions of Bishoppes brought downe vnto vs. For to this Churche saithe Irenaeus must all the Churche of Christe repaire where so euer it be for that it is the chiefe of all and for that the tradition of the true doctrine which the Apostles leaft behinde them is there faithfully kepte VVherefore if ye would after the councell of Irenaeus resorte to Rome for decision of the controuersies that be bet wixte you and vs and would them to be tried by that sense of doctrine which hath continewed by successions of Bishops euen from Peter to Pius the fourth now Pope and would stande to the auctoritie of that See Apostolike al strife were ended we should be at accorde But we haue litle hope ye will folowe this godly counsel of S. Irenaeus that blessed Martyr whose body your brethren the Huguenotes of Fraūce vilanously burned at Lions Anno Dom. 1562. after it had rested there thirten hundred yeeres and more The B. of Sarisburie The Preeminence that Irenaeus geueth to the Churche of Rome standeth in Consente and Vnitie and Agreemente of Doctrine not in Superioritie or Gouernmente ouer al the worlde For proufe whereof yee maie vnderstande that Irenaeus in the same place likewise specially noteth the Churche of Smyrna planted by Polycarpus the Churche of Ephesus planted by S. Iohn and generally sundrie other Greate Churches planted by menne of Apostolical Dignitie vnto whiche he willeth vs in like māner to repaire not onely to y◠Churche of Rome The Emperoure Theodsius willeth his Subiectes to conforme them selues in Doctrine not onely to the Romaine Bishop but also either to Nectarius the Bishop of Constantinople or to Timotheus the Bishop of Alexandria or to Pelagius the Bishop of Laodicea or to Diodorus the Bishop of Tharsus or to Amphilochius the Bishop of Iconium or to Optimus the Bishop of Antioche or to Helladius the Bishop of Caesarea or to Otreius the Bishop of Melite or to Gregorius the Bishop of Nice or to Terennius the Bishop of Scythia or to Marmarius the Bishop of Martianopolis Vnto al and euery of these notable greate Churches y◠Emperoure willeth al other inferioure Churches to repaire By sutche Examples the Fathers in the Councel of Chalcedon were contented to directe their Faithe For thus they brake out in a general shoote Omnes
Councel aboue the Pope In the Summone and firste Entrie of your Assemblie there Pope Paule had forgotten Christe and leafte him quite out of Companie and supplied the wante of him with the Authoritie of Peter and Paule An other of your Reuerende Fathers there maketh Marie the Blessed Virgine Equal vvith Christe and calleth her his most Faithful Felovve Fidelissimam Christi Sociam An other of the same Companie telleth vs that the Pope is the Light that is comme into the vvorlde Papa Lux venit in Mundum To be shorte the whole Issue and Conclusion of al your dooinges there by the ful agréemente of al your Fathers hangeth vpon the Popes onely pleasure And by your Doctrine the Pope maie not be controlled what so euer he doo neither by the Cleregie nor by al the whole Worlde And what so euer the Pope shal wil to staie or passe your Doctoures telle vs His onely Wil muste stande for Lavve For these and other like causes bothe the Emperoure Charles 5. also Francise the Frenche King biside sundrie other Christian Princes made open Protestatiō against your said Tridentine Conuenticle being then remoued to Bononia and said it was no lawful General Councel but onely an Assemblie of a fewe certaine personnes to serue one mans affection and to seeke for gaine Sutche is the opinion that your owne Princes haue of your Assemblies It becommeth vs not yée saie to calle the determinations of your General Councelles the Iudgementes of Mortal menne Yet it became S. Augustine to calle the same Concilia Contendentium Episcoporū The Councelles of quarrelling Bishoppes And againe Humanarum contentionum animosa perniciosa certamina The bolde and hurteful Contentions of worldly quarrelles But what néede wée many woordes Your owne Panormitane saith Leges Summorum Pontificum Conciliorū appellantur Statuta Humana fic strictè non possunt dici Ius Diuinum The Lawes and Determinations of Popes and Councelles are called the Determinations and Lavves of menne and so in streite manner of speache they cannot be called the Lavves of God Yee saie wée are no Bishoppes and therefore haue no Authoritie to holde a Synode Euen so your Fathers in olde time saide that S. Paule was no Apostle and that S. Basile and S. Hilarie were no Bishoppes Of S. Paule it is plaine S. Hilarie saithe of him selfe Auxentius de Persona mea calumniatus est damnatum me à Saturnino audiri vt Episcopum non oportere The Heretique Auxētius laith a quarrel to my personne and for as mutche as Saturninus the Heretique hath condemned me he saithe I maie not be hearde as a Bishop Likewise the Arian Heretiques vsed to saie that S. Basile and other like Learned and Catholique Fathers of that time were no Bishoppes S. Basile thereof writeth thus They calle the Councel of Catholique Bishoppes a Councel of vvicked menne neither wil they once vouchesaue to name them Bishoppes leste they should seeme to allowe the Decrees that they haue made againste them And they challenge them to be no Bishoppes for that as they saie they are the Captaines of a wicked heresie In like sorte he writeth vnto Patrophilus of the Heretique Eustathius He taketh greate heede leste he shoulde happily be forced to calle vs Bishoppes Thus M. Hardinge in denieing vs to be Bishoppes yée doo none otherwise but as other your Predecessours haue donne before you Of the Bishoppes and Prelates of your side I wil saie nothinge What your owne frendes haue thought of them I haue saide before As for vs it shal be sufficient if wée be onely the voice of a Crier in the Wildernesse S. Paule to auouthe his Apostleship saide openly thus Gratia Dei sum id quod sum By the Grace of God I am that I am Yée saie a Prouincial Councel maie not repeale a Councel General as if the Authoritie of your Councelles stoode onely in number and not in Truthe Howe be it the Simple Truthe of God shal ouerweigh Falsehedde be it neuer so General But euen thus saide Auxentius the Arian Heretique againste S. Hilarie These be his woordes Ego quidem pijssimi Imperatores existimo non oportere sexcentorum Episcoporum Vnitatem post rantos labores ex contentione Paucorum hominum refricari My moste Graceous Lordes in my Iudgemente it is not meete after so greate paines taken for the contentions striuinge of a fewe to hazarde the consente and Vnitie of Six hundred Bishoppes Thus the Heretique Auxentius alleged greate multitudes of his Companions againste S. Hilarie and the Catholiques whiche he saide were but a fewe Notwithstandinge it were no harde mater to shewe euidente Examples of General Councelles that haue benne ouerruled by Particulares The General Councel of Nice determined as you saie that al appeales out of al partes of the worlde shoulde lie to Rome Yet the Particulare or Prouincial Councel of Aphrica saithe Si prouocandum putauerint non prouocent nisi ad Aphricana Concilia Ad transmarina autem qui putauerit appellandum à nullo intra Aphricam in Communionem recipiatur If they shal thinke it good to appeale let them not appeale but onely to Coūcelles that shal be holden within Aphrica But who so euer shal appeale beyonde the Seas that is to saie to Rome let noman within Aphrica receiue him to his Communion The General Councel of Nice durste not to dissolue Priestes Marriage The Particulare Councel of Carthage dissolued it vtterly The order of Priuate or Auriculare Confession whiche in your fantasie was receiued generally throughout the whole Churche of God was notwithstandinge quite abolished in the Churche of Constantinople onely by the Particulare aduise of Nectarius Your Blacke Freers in theire Particulare Chapters haue controlled and cut of the General Determination of the Councel of Basile touchinge the conceiuing of our Lady in Original Sinne. And Albertus Pigghius by his like Particulare Authoritie telleth you that as wel this Councel of Basile as also the Councel of Constance beinge bothe General in that they saide The Councel is aboue the Pope Decreed plainely againste Nature againste the manifeste Scriptures againste al Antiquitie and againste the Catholique Faithe of Christe Certainely the Truthe of God is not bounde neither to Personne nor to Place Where so euer it be either in fewe or in many it is euermore Catholique euen bicause it is the Truthe of God In the Councel of Constantinople it is written thus Definierunt pariter vt si quid in Prouincia qualiber emergeret Prouinciae Concilio finiretur The Fathers agreed al togeather that if any mater should happen to growe in the Prouince by a Councel of the Prouince it shoulde be ended Likewise saith Isidorus Manifestum est quo'd illa quae sunt per vnamquanque Prouinciam ipsius Prouinciae Synodus dispenset sicut Niceno constat decretum esse Concilio It is cleare that maters happeninge in euery Prouince by a
Kinge Iohn and set al the people at libertie from their othes whereby thei ought allegeance to their Kinge and at laste wickedly and moste abominably they bereeued the same Kinge not onely of his Kingedome but also of his life Bisides this thei ExcoÌ„municated and cursed Kinge Henry the Eighte that moste famous Prince and stirred vp against him sommetime the Emperour sommetime the Frenche Kinge and as mutche as in them was put our Realme in hazarde to haue benne a very praie and spoile vnto the Enimie Yet were they but fooles and madde menne to thinke that either so mighty a Prince could be feared with bugges rattles or els that so Noble and greate a Kingdome might so easily euen at one morsel be deuoured and swalowed vp M. Hardinge Concerninge the case betweene these three Kinges of Englande and the Bishops of Rome for the time beinge I saie litle If they did wel and the Bishops euil they haue their rewarde the other their punishemente â—f otherwise or howe so euer eche one at Gods iudgemente shal haue his deserued measure But be it graunted al were true ye saie though we know the more part to be false VVhat though Kinge Henry the seconde were euil treated of Pope Alexander about the murthering of S. Thomas the Archebishop of Cantorbury and Kinge Iohn likewise of that zelous and learned Pope Innocentius the thirde c. The B. of Sarisburie Notwithstandinge the Pope as his manner hath benne raise Commotion within the Realme and arme the subiectes againste theire Soueraine and pulle the Crovvne Emperial from his heade yet by your Doctrine who so euer dare speake in his Princes right is a foole and killeth him selfe as if there were no life or saluation but onely vnder the frantike gouernement of the Pope Sutche obedience and loialtie the Pope hathe taught you towardes your Prince The Apologie Cap. 23. Diuision 2. And yet as though al this were too litle thei would needes haue made al the Realme Tributarie to them exacted theÌ„ce yeerely most vniuste and wrongeful taxes So deere coste vs the frendeship of the Cittie of Rome Wherefore if they haue gotten these thinges of vs by extortion through theire fraude and suttle sleightes we see no reason why we maie not plucke awaie the same from them againe by lawful waies and iuste meanes And if our Kinges in that darkenesse and blindenesse of the former times gaue them these thinges of theire owne accorde and liberalitie for Religions sake beinge moued with a certaine opinion of their fained holinesse now when the ignorance and erroure is spied out maie the Kinges theire Successours take them awaie againe seinge they haue the same Authoritie the Kinges theire Auncestours had before For the gifte is voide excepte it be allowed by the wil of the geeuer and that cannot seme a perfit wil whiche is dimmed and hindered by erroure M. Hardinge As for Peterpens and what other so euer summes of monie were yeerely paide to the Churche of Rome whiche were not by extorcion suttil sleightes by the Popes gotten as ye slaunder but freely and discretely by the prince and the realme for a greate cause graunted it is not a thing that so mutche grieueth the Pope as your departure from the true faith and Churche dothe as it maie wel appere by that whiche happened in Queene Maries raigne In whiche time although the Pope were acknowledged â–ª yet him selfe neuer was knowen to haue demaunded his Peterpens or any other yeerely paimentes againe But what is this to your schismes and Heresies This healpethe you nothinge for answeare to the hainous crime of your Apostasie The liberalitie of our countrie to the see of Rome whiche is the mother of al the VVeaste Churches hath ben so smal in comparison of certaine other Realmes as with the honoure of the Realme it might not seme to finde it selfe greued therewith Yet here ye sette a gnatte to an Elephante and make greate adoo about a litle The Realme is not so mutche enriched by retaininge that smal summe from the Pope as it is dishonored by your vndiscrete talke saueringe altogeather of miserie and niggardnes Ye shoulde haue shewed better stuffe at leaste in th ende of your booke The laste acte of a fable by rules of Poeterie shoulde be beste Ye haue done like a foolishe Poete making your ende so badde The Pope seeketh not your monie he seketh you He seeketh the safetie of your soules He seeketh like a good shepherde howe to reduce the streied shepe of Englande vnto the folde of Christes Churche God graunte we maie see his good intente happely acheued The B. of Sarisburie The Pope hathe enriched him selfe and gotten the treasures of the world into his owne handes not by fraude or guile as you saie but onely by the frée liberalitie of Kinges and Princes Yet S. Augustine saithe Non possumus dicere Nemo nos inuasores arguit violeÌ„tiae nullus accusat Quasi non maiorem interdum praedam à viduabus blandimenta cliciant quà m tormenta Nec interest apud Deum vtrùm vi an circumuentione quis res alienas occupet dummodò quoquo pacto teneat alienum Wee cannot saie No man chargeth vs with extorsion noman accuseth vs of violence For oftentimes of poore widowes a man maie geate more by flatterie then by rackinge And there is no difference before God whether a man holde an other mannes goodes by open violence or by guile if the thinge that he holdeth be not his owne But how maie this by your learninge M. Hardinge be called the liberalitie of the Prince He is liberal that is frée in bestowing of his own But you tel vs that al the Temporal goodes of the vvorlde are the Popes and not the Princes and that the Prince hath nothinge but by fauoure sufferance of the Pope Your Doctours wordes be these Papa est Dominus omnium temporalium secundum illud dictum Petri Dabo tibi omnia regna mundi The Pope is the Lorde of al temporal goodes accordinge to that saieinge of S. Peter that S. Peter neuer spake for they are the woordes of the Diuel I wil geue thee al the Kingdomes of the world An other of your Doctours saithe thus Dicunt quòd solus Papa est verus Dominus temporalium ita quòd potest auferre ab alio quòd aliâs suum est Sed praelati caeteri Principes non sunt Domini sed Tutores Procuratores Dispensatores Thei saie that the Pope onely is the very Lorde of Temporal thinges so that he maie take from any man that is his own As for other Prelates and Princes thei be the ouerseers and fermours and stewardes of wordly thinges but not the Lordes And Matthias Parisiensis saithe that Pope Innocentius 3 called Kinge Iohn the Kinge of England Vasallum suum That is to saie his féede man or his Tenante meaning thereby that the Realme of England vvas the Popes and not the Kinges If
he nothinge at al Or howe can he claime by Féedinge that neuer Feedeth Againe where learned M Hardinge to reason thus Christe is Ascended into Heauen Ergo the Pope is Heade of the whole Worlde Or thus Christe saide to Peter Feede my Flocke Ergo the Pope hath Vniuersal Power ouer the whole Churche of God How can he make these Argumentes to holde I wil not saie by Diuinitie but by any reasonable shifte of Logique But ye saie God speaketh not nowe vnto vs mouthe to mouthe nor sendeth vs downe his Angels from Heauen nor instructeth vs nowe by Visions as he did others in Olde times What of that wil it therefore folowe that al the worlde muste geue eare to the Pope Nay M. Hardinge Chrysostome saithe mutche better Bicause God speaketh not nowe vnto vs in sutche familiare sorte Ergo Suam erga Homines amicitiam innouare volens quasi longè absentibus literas mittit conciliaturus sibi Vniuersam hominum Naturam Therefore God mindinge to renewe his fauour to wardes Man sente his Holy Scriptures as it were his Letters thereby to reconcile to him selfe al Mankinde God speaketh not nowe vnto vs by his Angels but he hath already spoken vnto vs as S. Paule saithe by the mouthe and presence of his Onely Sonne And therefore he saithe againe Yf an Angel from Heauen woulde nowe Preache vnto vs otherwise then wee haue receiued wée shoulde holde him accursed But for the Vnitie and quiet gouernmente of the Churche of God S. Paule saithe Christe Ascendinge aboue al the Heauens hathe geuen not One Vniuersal Pope to rule the whole but some Apostles some prophetes some Euangelistes some Pastours some Doctours for the perfitinge of the Sainctes for the woorke of the Ministerie for the buildinge vp of the Body of Christe that wee maye al comme into the Vnitie of Faithe and of the knowledge of the Sonne of God By these meanes God thought it sufficient to preserue his Churche in Vnitie and neuer made mention of One Vniuersal Pope Therefore S. Cyprian saithe Vnus est Episcopatus cuius à singulis in solidum pars tenetur There is but One Bishoprike parte whereof of euery seueral Bishop is holden in whole And againe Ideò plures sunt in Ecclesia Sacerdotes vt vno Haeresim faciente coeteri subueniant Therefore are there many Bishoppes in the Churche that if one fal into Heresie the reste maye healpe Thus when Peter walked not vprightly to the Gospel Paule came with healpe and reproued him openly euen to his face Thus Irenaeus reprooued Pope Victor thus sundrie godly Fathers haue reprooued others Therefore S. Augustine saithe Deus docuit Petrum per posteriorem Paulum A quocunque enim Verum dicitur illo donante dicitur qui est ipsa Veritas Thus God instructed Peter by Paule his pâ—nâ—e that was called after him For by whom so euer the Truthe is spoken it is spoken by his gifte that is Truthe it selfe Ye saye the Pope succedeth not Christe in al his Substance that is to saie in al his Power neither hath there any sutche fonde sayinge benne vttered saie you at any time by the Diuines Yf this be true wherefore then be these woordes written and so wel allowed of in the Councel of Laterane Tibi data est Omnis Potestas in Coelo in Terra Vnto your Holinesse al Power is geuen as wel in Heeuen as in Earth Wherefore is Bernarde so wel allowed to force the same farther with these woordes Qui totum dedit nihil excludit He that hath geueÌ„ thee Al hath excepted Nothinge Wherefore is Panormitane allowed to saie Papa potest omnia quae Deus ipse potest The Pope is hable by his power to doo what so euer God him selfe can doo For the reste M. Hardinge saithe One Kinge is hable to rule One Kingedome Ergo One Pope is hable to rule the whole Churche This Reason is very simple and is answeared before Of the gouernmente of Princes wée haue dayly Practise But of Popes that euer exercised this Vniuersal Dominion ouer the whole Churche of God M. Hardinge is not hable to shewe vs one Wel were it with him if he were but a Member of Christes Body and a Sheepe of his Flocke S. Gregorie saide sometime to Iohn the Bishop of Constantinople claiminge vnto him selfe the same Title and thinkinge him selfe hable yenough to rule the whole Quid tu Christo Vniuersalis Ecclesiae Capiti in Extremi Iudicij responsurus es examine qui cuncta eius Membra tibimet conaris Vniuersalis appellatione supponere What answeare wilt thou make in the trial of the Laste Iudgemente vnto Christe the Head of his Vniuersal Churche that thus by the name of Vniuersal Pishop seekest to bringe vnder thee al the Members of his Body Laste of al M. Harding concludeth without premisses Who so euer wil not be ruled by this Shepheard the Pope is of the Hearde of Antichriste So saithe one of the Popes hired Proctours Quicquid Saluatur est sub Summo Pontifice VVhat so euer Soule is saued it is vnder the Pope This one thinge beinge graunted M. Hardinges whole cause passeth cleare But God be thanked it appeareth already to al them that haue eles to see that wee haue not departed from the seruile Obedience of that See but vpon iuste cause and good aduise And in sutche sorte the Pope him selfe wil not denie but it is lawful for any Churche to dissente from the Churche of Rome These he his woordes whiche muste be holden for a Lawe Quicquid sine discretione Iustitiae contra Romanae Ecclesiae DisciplinaÌ„ actum fuerit ratum haberi nulla ratio permittit VVhat so euer thinge is donne without discretion of Iustice againste the Order of the Churche of Rome it maye not by any meanes be allowed By whiche woordes it appeareth Ex contrario Sensu By an Argument of the contrarie that what so euer is donne by discretion of Iustice notwithstandinge it be against the Order of the Churche of Rome yet ought it to wel allowed S. Augustine saithe Ne Catholicis quidem Episcopis consentiendum est sicubi fortè falluntur vt contra Canonicas Scripturas aliquid sentiant VVee maye not geue our consente vnto any Bishoppes be they neuer so Catholique if they happen to be deceiued and to determine centrarie to the Scriptures And Pope Pius 2 him selfe saithe Resistendum est quibuscunque in faciem siue Paulus siue Petrus sit qui ad Veritatem non ambulat Euangelij VVee are bounde to withstande any man to the face be it Peter be it Pause yf be walke not to the Truthe of the Gospel To conclude where the Woulfe is broken in it is beste for the poore Sheepe to breake out That the Woulfe was broken in beside the cruel spoile and raueninge of Christian Bloude it is plaine by the woordes of S. Bernarde For thus he speaketh
thereof in Open Councel in the presence of sundrie Bishoppes Non custodiunt Gregem Domini ses mactant deuorant They keepe not the Lordes Flocke but they kille it and deuoure it Againe he saithe Propterea relinquamus istos quia non sunt Pastores sed Traditores Therefore set vs leaue them For they are not Postours but Traitours And therefore God thus warneth vs in the like case Exite de medio horum hominum ne cum illis pereatis Goe foorthe from the middes of those Menne leste perishe al togeather The Apologie Cap. 3. Diuision 3. For al the Apostles as Cyprian saithe were of like power emong them selues and the rest were the same that Peter was M. Hardinge Power is double the one Ordinary the other by priuilege or Extraordinary Ordinary Power is that whiche contineweth in one and the same course for euer Accordinge to whiche Power Peter was Head of the Churche and his Successours after him Power by Priuilege or Extraordinary is that whiche is geuen besides the common course by waie of dispensation As where the other Apostles shoulde haue receiued Ordinarely theire Power from Peter as who had commission ouer al bothe Lambes and Sheepe amonge whome the Apostles had theire place Chrisie by special grace preuenteth ordinarie course and maketh them for the time and in their Persons equal with Peter in the office of Apostleship Thus concerninge ordinarie Power Peter is Head of the Apostles and by that reason they are subiecte vnto him as Sheepe vnto their Shepheard But by Priuilege true it is as S. Cyprian saithe They were of like power amonge them selues Nowe what oddes there is berwixt an Ordinarie auctoritie of iudginge geuen to any Officer for him selfe and his Successours in that Office for euer and a special Commission for life time onely so mutche is berwixte Peter and the reste of the Apostles The B. of Sarisburie S. Cyprians woordes be plaine Hoc erant vtique Coeteri Apostoli quod fuit Petrus pari consortio praediti Honoris Potestatis Sed exordium ab Vnitate proficiscitur vt Ecclesia vna monstretur The reste of the Apostles were the same that Peter was al endewed with one felowship bothe of Honour and of Power Yet the Beginninge is taken of One to shewe that the Churche is One But al these woordes â—e they neuer so plaine are soone shifted by a Prety Distinction sutche as neither S. Cyprian nor any other Learned Father or Doctour euer knewe Wée are taught here to vnderstande that there are twoo Powers The one Ordinarie the other Ertraordinarie By Ordinarie Power saithe M. Harindge that is the saie by Order and of Common Course Peter appointed al the reste of the Apostles and gaue them Authoritie And Christe also likewise gaue them Authoritie but by Extraordinarie Power that is to sate bistoes Order and out of Course Or to vtter the mater in plainer wise Peter gaue power to the Apostles by his Vsual Authoritie and by dowe fourme of Lawe But Christe gaue them Power as M. Hardinge saithe Onely for the time and by waie of Dispensation and bisides the Lawe And thus Peter is the Ordinarie Heade of the Apostles Christe is theire Head too how be it not in like sorte but Extraordinarie For as touchinge Order of gouernmente Peter is the Shephearde and the Apostles are the Sheepe Al other the Apostles holde theire Power as by Copie for terme of Life Peter onely holdeth the same in Fée Simple to him and to his Heires for euer And good Christian Reader least thou shouldest thinke I haue in scorne and willfully wreasted M. Hardinges woordes whiche otherwise might be vttered by him in some sober meaninge maye it please thée by these fewe to consider what certaine others of that side haue vttered and published touchinge the same Petrus de Palude saithe thus Dico â–ª quòd nullus Apostolorum praeter Perrum factus est à Christo Episcopus I saie that none of the Apostles sauinge onely Peter was made Bishop by Christe And againe Videretur in Nouo Testamento quòd alij Apostoli à Christo Nullam Potestatem Iurisdictionis receperunt per consequens relinguitur quòd Omnis Potestas Iurisdictionis quam habuerunt Apostoli Specialiter post Christi Ascensum fuit collata eis à Petro It woulde appeare that in the Newe Testament the reste of the Apostles receiued no manner Power of Jurisdiction at Christes haÌ„des and so consequently it foloweth that al the Power of Jurisdiction that the Apostles had specially after Christes Ascension was geuen vnto them by Peter Againe he imagineth God the Father thus to saie vnto Christe Constitues eos Principes non per te sed per tuum Vicarium Thou shalte make the Apostles gouernours ouer al the Earth not by thee selfe but by Peter thy Vicare And againe Paulus alij Apostoli à Petro non debuerunt praedicare in Ecclesia specialiter Petro commissa nisi de eius licentia Vnde à Christo habuerunt idoneitatem à Petro autem Authoritatem Paule and the other Apostles mighte not Preache in the Churche committed vnto Petâ—r but with Peters Licence For of Christe they had onely Habilitie but of Peter they receiued Authoritie In like manner writeth Pope Nicolas Petrum in Consortium Indiuiduae Trinitatis assumptum id quod ipse erat Dominus voluit nominari Our Lorde tooke Peter into the Felowship of the Holy Trinitie and would haue him called the same that he was him selfe By sutche Amplifications and outrage in speache it woulde appeare Christe were Peters Vicare and not Peter Vicare vnto Christe In this Sense and meaninge M. Hardinge séemeth to saie that by Ordinarie and common Course of Lawe the Apostles had al theire Power not from Christe but onely from Peter But here M. Hardinge vnwares falleth into a marueilous inconuenience For these thinges thus graunted it muste néedes folowe that duringe the time of Christes aboade in Earthe the Apostles had no manner Ordinarie Power at al neither to Preache nor to Baptize nor to Binde nor to Loose For Heruaeus a Doctour of M. Hardinges side saithe thus Sciendum quòd cùm Christus conuersabatur cum hominibus non fuit alius Papa praeter ipsum nec Petrus tunc habuit potestatem Papalem Wee muste vnderstande that while Christe was conuersante emongst menne in Earthe there was none other Pope but be alone Neither then had Peter the Popes Authoritie So likewise saithe Petrus de Palude Non decebat esse simul nisi Vnum Summum Pontificem Vnde Christo Ascensuro debuit Petrus fieri Episcopus Summus non anteà It was not meete there shoulde be more then one Highest Bishop at one time Therefore when Christe was ready to Ascende into Heaven it was conuenient to make Peter the Highest Bishop and not before For so longe time Christe coulde not geue his Apostles any Ordinarie Authoritie