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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A96888	A dialogue, arguing that arch-bishops, bishops, curates, neuters, are to be cut-off by the law of God; therefore all these, with their service, are to be castout by the law of the land. Notwithstanding, the world pleads for their own, why some bishops should be spared; the government maintained; the name had in honour still; but the word of God is cleare against all this, for the casting-of-all-forth. The great question is, which way of government now? For two wayes are contended for, The Presbyteriall and Independent: something is said to both these wayes: but we have a sure word for it, that these two wayes are but in shew two, and will assuredly meet in one. Neuters are shewen openly here, and the curse of God upon them. Presented to the Assembly of Divines.	Woodward, Ezekias, 1590-1675.	1644 (1644)	Wing W3486A; Thomason E34_10; ESTC R22862	54,646	56

Set open the Ale-house you may be sure some body will come reeling out The same may be said of setting up May-poles and countenancing other sports thereto belonging You cannot command them and forbid the taking pleasure to riott in the day time Wee doe not reade and it is worth our observation that Balaam did command the people to commit whoredome with the daughters of Moah He did not point Zimri and Cosb● to goe to the Tent in the face of the Congregation and on that solemn day he had more civilitie than so Balaam Numb 24. 14. Chap. 31. 16. See Trem. did advise onely so and no more Balaam was an old Man as he was so his counsell must be grave not seemingly sowre nor apparently uncivill Let Isra●l and Moab come to an inter-view let them see each others faces let them be present at each others sacrifices This was the Counsell but worse than a curse for now folly will be committed in I●●●l no doubt of that And then The GOD of Israel will be offended wi●h Israel He will depart and then a curse followes as certain as when the Cloud is thicke The thunder-clap followes in our senses the sparkling flash Bad Counsell is worse than sower Counsell and more poyson u● for by bad counsell not sower counsell Balaam taught Balack To lay a stumbling block before Israel as the Spirit calleth a Rev. 2. 14 it And it proved in the issue sower counsell too Israel found it so as wee reade b Numb 25. 9. 1 Cor. 10. 8 To apply here The Bishops did not command Idolatry saying Goe serve other gods No but they set-up Altars That was enough to defile the whole Land and to make a people commit adultery with stones and with stocks c Jer. 3. 9. The Bishops did not command Tipling and Drunkennesse No But they commanded sports and pass-times Whitson-Ales and May-poles Allow the cause and countenance that you allow the effect and countenance that also which naturally issueth thence If the maid lay leaven in three pecks of meale shee need not command it to sower the whole lumpe Put fire and fuell together you need not bid it to burne Set a desirable object before the eye you need not command the heart to lust after it Set the windowes doores gates all open you need not bid the enemy enter A small sparke falling into gunpowder you know what it will doe whether you will or no or though you command the contrary And you know as well That they who command Wakes Whitson-Ales setting up May-poles and other sports therewith used do command filthy Tiplings and Drunkennesse and other abuses in such distempers usuall I have been the longer upon this to cleare your judgement in so necessary a point I proceed now to the next Question Did the Bishops but endeavour was it but their seeking onely To turne the Deputy from the faith Act. 13. 8. A. I cannot make answere here for I cannot tell whose endeavour and seeking it was I can tell All are turned from the Faith King and Bishop Priest and people and all All are turnd away from God that is cleare enough The Church and State are turned up-side downe what possibly Church-men could doe But who was the chiefest Artist and Turner here that I cannot so well tell B. If you cannot you are content to be informed at this point from them who can tell us from ancient Records That the Bishop turned the Deputy from the faith and with him very much people wee will reade the Records but consider with mee first How high the Bishops Power and Authoritie was A. How high the Bishops Power He was not in the Zenith d The Zenith is the highest point in the heavens over your head The Nadar is that point of earth your foot stands upon The place wher the Popes must be laid and their honours in the Dust of the Church for there onely the Pope sits Take it at the height of its elevation The Bishops power was but Derivative as a streame from the See of Rome a bastard-power from the Pope B. You are mistaken our Bishops power was as independant as the Popes power is as absolute a Pope in his Diocesse and that was all over the Land as the Pope is all over the Christian world And all his Actions Dictates Determinations c. were as Magisteriall and Pope-like as ever were the Bishops in Rome But I pray you consider with mee what I was about to say but that you interrupted mee 2. What an influence like some malignant Starr the Bishops power had from the Councell-Table Starr-chamber every Court and place into the affaires and transactions of Church and State 3. Enquire wee of ancient dayes and wee shall well understand That while the Priests were good The King was good When the people might say He is a very good Priest Then they might say He is a very good King Jehojada an excellent Priest for he made a Covenant between 2 Chron. 23. 16. God the King and the People That all should be not their owne but The LORDS People an excellent Priest he So was Joash the King as forward and zealous to say no more as the Priest was * Ver. 6. The Priests zeale kindled the Kings zeale made it fervent and boyling-hott So it was like the burning of thornes quickly in a flame and as quickly out It was not a zeale a fire from above But this is the point So long as the Priest was excellently good a living example before the Kings eye so long the King was good Zechariah a very good Priest too And in his dayes Vzziah was a very good King for he sought God in the dayes of 2 Chro. 26 Zechariah and all that while he prospered I might be large wee will reade but one or two Records more The one tells us 4. That the Temple and the Temple-worke there was never defiled while the chiefe Priests there did their office It is true The King fretted against the Priests and stormed against the LORD till the LORD 2 Chron. 26. 20. smote him in his forehead then he was calme and still But while the chiefe Priest and fourescore more with him did their office all was well except the King It was ill with him who did fret against the Priests because they did their office and against The Lord That charged them so It was ill with him But the Censer and the Sacrifice was in their hands unto whom it did belong To offer unto the LORD and serve before Him Let us record one example more and that will relate to these times King Ahaz had a servant a Right man for his s●●vice But as vile a Priest as was in all Judah What was the King If any man makes it a question The sacred Records will resolve him As miserable a King as his Idolatries other abominations could make him And his Priest the basest servant in the world a

A DIALOGUE ARGVING That Arch-Bishops Bishops Curates Neuters are to be cut-off by the Law of GOD Therefore all these with their Service are to be cast-out by The Law of the Land Notwithstanding The world pleads for their own why some Bishops should be spared The Government maintained The name had in honour still But the word of God is cleare against all this for the casting-of-all-forth The great Question is which way of Government now For two wayes are contended for The Presbyteriall and Independent Something is said to both these wayes But we have a sure word for it That these two wayes are but in shew two and will assuredly meet in one Neuters are shewen openly here and the curse of GOD upon them Presented to the Assembly of DIVINES And the Lord hath given a Commandement concerning thee That no more of Thy name shall be sowen I will make thy grave for thou art vile N●h 1. 14 Sing unto the LORD for He has don excellent things This is knowne in all the earth Isa 12. 5. Vpon mount Zion shall be deliverance and there shall be holinesse Obad. 17. They have made themselves vile cast them out of My sight and let them goe forth 1 Sam. 3 13. Jer 15. 1. 〈…〉 that thou stoodst on the other side A looker-on the day of thy brother even thou wast one of them Obad. 11. LONDON Printed by T. P. and M. S. in Gold-Smiths-Alley 1644. TO THE EXCELLENT IN THE LAND Dr. VVILLIAM TWISSE Master of the ASSEMBLY And to the DIVINES there VVith the most highly honoured and dearly beloved The Commissioners for the Church of SCOTLAND AN unknowne person and desires so to be the meanest of many Thousands presents these papers to your hands which he call a Booke having he doubts not Truth and reason for its Parrons * Libri hoc nomine dignandi in veritatis tantum et rationis clientelam se dare debent Ver. de Aug. l 1. Therefore he does not doubt but yee will be its Patrons too yee will countenance these where-ever you find them though amidst some refuse bearing GODS Image and superscription For the man you will weigh him with his full allowance he needs all that and he looks for no more So far as he dares trust a great Deceiver he dares say That he has no other end in this but the glory of GOD and good of his brother That he may be informed if ignorant confirmed if weake convinced if froward and obstinate That is the White he levells at There are Three maine Exceptions 1 Against the Title It is a Dialogue 2 Against the Author A knowne enemy to Bishops sayes Here-say a most notorious liar 3 Against the wayes of worship now For some say There be two I shall endeavour to give cleare satisfaction to all this in the next Pages I cease here to interrupt you any farther so fixed upon your worke Earnestly contending for the faith and striving together each with other and for other in your prayers Now the good will of Him That now dwells in the Bush dwell in your Assembly upon that glory let That defence be and in your houses To supply your absence and all needs there In your severall Congregations and be a small Sanctuary there In your hearts and be Lord and King there Amen The GOD of Truth lead you into all Truth Amen The Lord of Peace Himselfe give you peace alwayes by all meanes That no occasion be given to the Adversary to speake reproachfully Amen The LORD be with you all Amen Take you by the hand keepe you in His way hold you fast to it for the Churches good and your owne good everlasting Amen and Amen By way of Preface to all that love Truth and Peace THat is To all over the Christian world for all love Peace No There is a generation of men That shall leave their names to posteritie for a curse who love Death set themselves in Battle Aray against the Truth and are pretenders to peace no more they hate it in their hearts I doe not feare to point-out these men and to tell who they are They who stand-up for Arch-bishops and Lord-Bishops I call them by that common name though Prelate seemes a more proper name They will maintaine the Government by Bishops and their service in full force and vertue as it followes in our Briefes Notwithstanding that there is all law and reason against it And which is above all Reason though the LORD CHRIT has taken to Himselfe power in all the peoples sight bringing these men downe even to the sides of the pitt whence they shall not returne till they rise to Judgement The common people lookers on now and observing the Princes and Nobles of the world in this eager contention betting with the Divell and staking downe Earldomes and Lordships and the crowne of their glory cannot be perswaded in their hearts That this betting and staking is to winne a very triste to gaine a thing of nought Therefore having such examples before them They stand-up for Bishops also for their Government and service And some of ●hem not common men amongst the commons give their reason why they would have Bishops neither their Government nor their service abolished Because Their No wise Reason from so wise-men forefathers were born dyed under the Bishops Government served God after the Bishops manner and prescribed formes of worship and why should they yeeld to alterations or subscribe their names to a Covenant touching that matter For these mens sakes whom I tender as brethren All made of the same bloud have all the like precious soules bought with the same price professors of the same faith called all by the same name seeme to rejoyce under the same hope looke to inherit the same kingdome for their sakes I have taken this paines To shew them that will not shut their eyes the cleare will and law of God touching the fore-mentioned The throwing downe of the Bishops I carry it no higher the rooting-out of their Government The casting-out of their service The abolishing of their name There be three maine exceptions now as was said I le tell what they are and remove them as I can 1. It is a Dialogue and therein I dispute and argue the case with my selfe and so wise I am I will put no other arguments to my selfe but what I can tell my selfe how to answer And so I must needs overcome as the Boy must winne the game that playes with himselfe To this I make answer first 1 I thought A continued discourse not so proper as a Dialogue that the phancie might have more libertie to worke upon the understanding 2 I can say truly That this is no fained disputation but truly and really acted onely now enlarged with such Objections and Answers which upon due considerations I could imagine might be made for the upholding of the Bishops the continuance of their Government or the name I say againe and

is he said they who compelled the people to blaspheme and persecuted the Saints to strange Cities Therefore Pauls repentance was as fully declared as his sin was and then he was trusted and not before I proceed to a second Argument II Argument The Bishops have blasphemed c. A. You have said enough if you can prove that B. I prove it first They said they are Bishops when they were not for they did nothing as became Bishops A. Is it blasphemy to say Wee are what indeed wee are not B. Yes in Gods account and He can best judge of Blasphemy I know sayes the Spirit the blasphemy of them who say they are Jewes and they Rev. 2. 9. are not What was their blasphemy Surely wee know no other but this They said they were what they were not That was their blasphemy And it is of high consideration of the same concernment to us Christians to teach us To be what wee say wee are A. The Bishops said they are Bishops and they are Bishops 〈◊〉 see them to be so B. Yes if lawne sleeves and an outward dresse or garb can give in sufficient evidence That they are what they say they are But let us according to the Charge speake as the Oracles of GOD and deliver forth clearly what they say and what wee see It is true the Lord Christ who sees the heart and knowes the secrets therein does not judge after the sight of the eye nor reprove after the hearing of the eare But wee poore Isa 11. 4. men who see no more but the out-side wee must take leave to judge after the sight of the eyes and reprove for wee have no other means after the hearing of our ears Wee professe heartily wee marke not so much what men say as what they doe Wee care not what they say they are but what wee see they are And so wee will compare what they say they are and what wee see they are and so leave it to others thereby to give Righteous Judgement They say they are from heaven wee see they are from Rome They say they are Fathers wee see they have no naturall affection at all bloudy Fathers have they been bloudy Fathers They say they are spirituall wee see they are altogether carnall They say they are Lords wee see they are slaves to their lusts to their honours to men Time-servers Men-pleasers They say they are ovex-seers wee see they over-see nothing but their Rents and Revennewes which was the complaint long agoe b See History of the Councell of Trent Book 2. Pag. 252. and 216. Non magis de pascendagrege Cogitant qua sutor de orando Calvin Instit 4. Chap. 5. Sect. 12 13 Jer. 23. 13 14. Ezek. 22. 26. Zach. 11. 17. They say they are men of GOD wee see they are men of the world They say they stand for Christ wee see they stand against Christ opposing Him in all His wayes They say they are Ministers of the Gospel wee see folly is in them and horrible things are committed by them They say they are Shep-heards wee see they are Idoll-Shepheards and the sword is upon their right eye and arme their Arme is cleane dried-up and their right eye is utterly darkened This wee see that they are not what they say they are Their mouth was yet wider open to utter blasphemies for 2. They said they were Bishops by divine Right I mean it not in their sense now nor as it was commonly understood though that was an high presumption this was more They said they were Bishops and would have made themselves so by the same right whereby the Lord Christ blessed for ever was made a Priest for ever By the same right would they have made themselves Arch-bishops Bishops Deans Arch-Deacons c. for ever Marke wee whether it was not just so To be established by an Oath was a peculiar Instalment to our High Priest the great Bishop of our soules He was made with an Oath Other Priests without an Oath c Heb. 7. 20 21. But so they thought to establish themselves that their thr●● might endure for ever for unto an immutable thing wherein it was impossible they thought to be mistaken they had fixed the Anchor of their hope both sure and stedfast What doe you thinke of this A. I thinke it to be a greater blasphemy than the other B. It is hard to make a comparison who blasphemes most he that blasphemes in words or he that blasphemes in deed But you thinke this to be a great blasphemy A. Yes B. Surely you cannot thinke lesse for here they said more presumptuously than that proud King did Wee will exalt our Throne above Isa 14. 13 14. the Sta●res of GOD wee will ascend above the height of the Clouds wee will be like the most High will was all their reason And now see what the LORD has don for it is the worke of His hands He has brought them downe even to the sides of the pit I argue from hence the lawfulnesse of the eradicating or rooting-out this abominable roote the Hierarchy with its branches by the same Argument which they used for the rooting themselves-in And we are sure that there is strength enough in the Argument if the highest presumption and most horrid blasphemy can give strength unto it for all this is in it Hitherto wee have seene the Law and Hand of the LORD against these men for the Abomination committed against the LORDS day 2. For their presumptuons sayings and blasphemous doings against the LORD Himselfe Wee proceed now to another Argument for the Casting of them forth because of their force and fraud against the people of GOD the Clergie indeed the lot of His Inheritance Thus I argue Arg. III They that did call the people to the Sacrifices of strange gods They that did seeke to entice and turne-away the servants of GOD from serving so good a Master were by GODS command to be hanged-up Num. 25. 4. before the LORD The Bishops have spoken all that they could speake and have don all that they could doe whereby to entice and Deut. 13. 1. thrust-away the people of God from the service of God to serve abominable Idolls the worke of mens hands Therefore by mans law these are to be Cast-out What will you deny here A. This That the Bishops have don as you have said sought to entice the people of God secretly by fraud or by force to thrust his people away from the service of their God All this I deny B. All this you deny It is quickly said but you stand charged to consider what you deny least you contradict the evidence and verdict which all your senses give-in unto you touching this matter I shall call them-in now to give witnesse and I charge you before the Living God answer now the truth and the whole truth as your senses have made report unto you first B. What heare you from their Pulpits A. I

those names by the Heathen in honour to the Sun and to the Queen of heaven Venerable for Antiquitie So is the Pope too and his Cardinalls more ancient than he if you will beleeve them or their Advocate for he and they conclude from sacred Scripture too see what Interpreters they are That the Cardinalls are two dayes older than the Moone They were in the firmament of the Church before the Moone was set in the heaven as they collect very wisely from the Text 1 Sam. 2. 8 See Childs patrimony pag. 104. pointed to in the Margin I will not contend with you nor you with me you shall have your saying Arch-bishops are venerable for their Antiquitis So you say so I say wee are agreed Arch-bishops are as ancient as Paganisme as Heathenisme in this Land They were here before the Land was Christian And now that this Land must be the LORDS Land and the people there The LORDS people Christians indeed now shall Arch bishops be no more A. Let Antiquitie goe I see it will doe them no good but a necessitie there is there should be Arch-bishops B. A necessitie then there is reason for it and Law both but there is neither He be as plaine with you as a pack-staff Tell mee when I have told you There ar● severall flocks of sheepe in the Land a Shepheard over every flock so carefull wee are of our sheepe that harmlesse usefull cattell And great reason for that Now tell me What reason or Law is there That there should be a great a Catholique Shepheard to o●ersee all these Shepheards have you any Reason or Law for that A. No truly That there should be a great Overseer over small overseers B. I thought so Therefore I know there is no necessitie A. I must grant it but there is a Decency B. A Decency worse and worse You should remember your charge To speake as the O●acle of GOD and as in the eares of GOD. You doe not answer your charge when you say That the being of Archbishops in a Church makes for the decency in the Church I answer you there are not Arch-Angells in heaven And is it decent there should be Arch bishops or Primates on earth There is no decency in it at all I know you will forsake that Argument A. Well But they say there can not be a glorious Church without Arch-bishops B. A foppery I had almost said a blasphemy I shall say it anon The Church is glorious in heaven you will say and yet there be no Archbishops there all men say A. I have heard them highly extolled commended and praised B. For what for their vertues A. Yes B. So was Hildebrand * Beno Cardinalis Aventinus making his entry to speak of Pope Hildebrand saith thus Now must I speake of warres slaughters murthers killing of fathers strives hatreds fornications robberies spolings of common treasure spoilings of Churches debates and seditions more then civill the Pope praised who had poysoned six Popes his predec●ssours w●s a Conjurer and raiser of Devils and threw the Sacrament into the fire This man was commended for his vertues Judas has been comcommended above the Apostles Commended Is that any newes when Robbers Murtherers Rebels Traitors vile and treacherous Priests and persons are highly commended at this day they are honoured dignified titles of grace and honour are conferred upon them To say all in a word the Anti-Parliament the Parliament in Oxford consisting of the out-casts from this Parliament Oxford Parliament I say the refuse the garbage of the land that Parliament is commended Will you put any force in praise and commendations I pray you know from me that a quartane Ague has been praised so has folly been exalted by very learned men Nay I could read you a long oration in the praise of a Louse If I should tell you what persons and flatuous things have been commended I should make you laugh heartily But we are serious Certainly that Argument will not hold neither But to speak-out plainly and all in a word It is blasphemy for a man to take unto himselfe that honour A. I grant it to be blasphemy in the Popes mouth B. In the Popes mouth It is blasphemy in the mans mouth who will assume unto himselfe that name that incommunicable name Archbishop or Primat for he is Pope the mouth that speaks blasphemies as truly Pope in London as Pope Leo was in Rome To dispatch this and to cleare your judgement from the clearest light I pray you consider That the Lord Jesus Christ Blessed for ever is if I might use our Dialect the Archbishop and Primat in heaven and earth And the Seaven Spirits is His Vicar-generall He is the great Shepheard the sole Monarch the King of Kings and Lord of Lords And because the Gian●s of the world and Lords of the earth because Almighty Kings in their conceit thinking they have an arme like God and so Lord-like Bishops have set themselves against this Lord and King therefore has this Lord and King set his face against them He has taken to Himselfe power and an Iron rod into his hand and now we see him thrash the Nations like straw and the Hills like chaffe and comming upon Princes Isa 41. 15. 25. as upon mortor Now we see him smiting the earth terribly nor will he leave smiting till the bloodshed there bee discovered till the gods there be starved till the Idols there be cast out to the Moles and to the Batts Isa 2. now we see him shaking Kingdomes and Crownes nor will he leave shaking till he have shat●ered and broken them to peeces because they would not be the Lords Kingdomes nor would they with the Elders cast down their crownes before the Throne If they continue obstinate if 〈◊〉 4 10 they will not rule for Christ if they will not submit unto Him then thus and thus the Lord Christ will do unto them that all the Kingdomes of the earth may know The Lord Christ reigneth there is a God that judgeth in the earth But who shall bold out while hee sees these things accomplished They that wait patiently for the Lord for here is the patience of the Saints They that leave God to his own time worke and way doe their own work faithfully take hold of the Almighty arme wrap up their soules in a promise touching this matter so they are at peace And this peace of God which passeth all understanding shall keep their hearts in perfect peace peace peace Amen A. I 〈◊〉 you have not done B. Ye● indeed have I unlesse you have any more to say for Arch-bishops have you A. Not a word I could bite my tongue for saying so much But I have much to say for Bishops that others may be put into their rooms that the Bishops government may be continued their office and their name B. I see you will trouble me and I am content with the trouble so it may ease your mind and

8 9. at that argument But I have two words wherein I would be satisfied before wee come to a full stop The one is touching the office of a Bishop the other is touching the name Concerning both great things and honourable are spoken even by GOD Himselfe Touching the office first Can you except against it B. No indeed can I not I cannot except against a good worke and that is the office To give the minde to reading to exhortation and to doctrine that is the office Naturally to care for the children exhorting comforting charging them as a Father doth thence his dutie is concluded That is the office To be gentle among the Children knowing them by name affectionately desirous after them provoaking them by teares and as a nurse cherishing them That is the office It cannot be blamed nor the Bishop neither I mean the man for he is a father a nurse he is that which stands in the nearest relation importing the tendrest care and dearest affection and he is blamelesse in all How dare you or I blame him whom GOD commends A. So say my Adversaries too The office is not to be blamed nor the Bishop You see both are as ancient as Paul was And you know too That a Reverend Father of the Church has calculated the nativitie of the Bishops and the descent of the office and he finds the office in heaven and the Bishops before the ancient Kings in this Land B. Very true all this And now you need not tell your Adversaries That the Reverend Father is answered by the Sonnes of the Church ●or that he sta●ed heaven in the face so long that at last he fell into the Ditch You need not tell your Adversaries this for they know it well enough I could tell you now a notable Story as judicious Calvin tells it mee concerning Maximilian the Emperour a notable Story and very pertinent but I will not trouble you with it onely point at it in the Margin * Calvin upon Isa cap. 19. 11. And so question you a little Doe you thinke that Paul means by office and Bishop the Government of a Catholique and universall Bishop an Arch-bishop or Diocesan and Lord Bishop doe you thinke so A. I cannot tell what to thinke B. No why I told you before their office cannot be found in the earth A. They have found it in heaven B. So presumptuously they said and now you see though they will not that they are brought downe to the sides of the pitt You should not put mee to repetition for indeed what I spake of their Government might have sufficed for their office But reade the Text againe The office is a good worke cannot you tell your Adversaries now what worke they have made in the Church and Common-wealth I know you can You reade also That the office of Pauls Bishop was naturally to care for his people as a father as a nurse His office was to feed the flock of Christ The mightie word of GOD was the Scepter of Pauls Bishop therewith he cast downe strong holds strong rodds a Ezek. 19. 11. were the Scepter of these B●shops These did not feed but rule the sheepe of Christ with a rod of Iron b Rev. 2. 27. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifies He shall feed or rule The Pope and his Bish make the later to be the office of a Bishop So the sheepe have had a hard feeding from that interpretation You reade againe Pauls Bishop must be blamelesse were these so A. What is all this to the office B. I told you before and I will repeat it but this once Their office is not found in heaven or earth It is true If wee beleeve them they have found their office in heaven and have executed it upon earth as wee heard but who will observe the whole Series of things shall discerne plainly That a curse has cleaven to their office evermore closer than the Ivy to the wall or the morter betwxt the joyning of the stones As it alwayes does to that office which is not of Gods ordaining and for which no man though for his sinceritie honestie learning without exception can be sufficient I will not recall here what was said how crosse Catholick Bishops Lord or Diocesan Bishops are to God and His Word I will onely say what some have said of the Pope and apply it to ours Some Popes have been Fathers but never any Pope an holy Father And some few very few good men But never any a good Pope So also as true of our Bishops looke wee over them all wee may finde some good men very few but not one Good Bishop And this I must ever thinke is by vertue of the curse which cleaveth to the office A. I am in a worse case to answer my Adversary now than before Never any a good Bishop Many good Bishops say my Adversaries for many of them were martyrs B. Not many if I remember five onely but twice five were persecuters Five martyrs will not argue so strongly for the goodnesse of the office as twice five against it Againe Martyrdome does not make a good Bishop he must render himselfe good while he lives by magnifying his office A. Well and so they did Bishop Ridley and Bishop Latimer What can you say against them B. Nothing not a word God has accepted them He has pardoned It shall be remembred no more how Bishop Ridley dealt with King Edward the Saint he would but I forbeare Nor how Bishop Latimer that good man over-taken through Infirmitie did in a Sermon comply with a murtherer against the good Kings Uncle the good Lord Protector too like a Bishop B. Bishop Hooper what say you against him A. Against him I have much to say for him an excellent man he he had his Table full with good cheare you will say and so have our Bishops too no full set with company he eat not his morsels alone and they the poorest of his flock and which I would have noted God would have it followed he fed their soules first from his owne mouth and then their bodies with his meat his doctrine did drop upon them Deut. 32. 2. as the raine and his speech distill'd as the dew The meaning is he Catechised them first and then said Eat friends and be merry GOD accepteth the worke An excellent man So was Bishop Juel too the Jewel Lege vitam Juelli of our Church set as a Diamond there He gave himselfe up to the LORD and His worke he spent and wasted a wearied body therein and gloried in it as well he might that so he did And it greatly refreshed his dying spirits when his soule sate on his lips That he had wasted his body and spirits too in the worke of the LORD c. to whom he hath given-up his account with Joy A. Very well excellent men these and were not these good Bishops B. Look how you force me yet I will not

doing whereof others their fellow-brethren have had their skin torne from their flesh and their flesh from their bones these doe deserve to be cast-out of the land But these are the same and doe the same which they did who in former time were so punished Therefore these ought to bee cast-out by the law of the Land 3. They that are the same and doe the same which they did who were cursed from Gods mouth and commanded to be cursed by all the people these ought to be cast-out of the land by the law of the land But these are the same and doe the same which they did who were so cursed Therefore c. A. Prove that these Neuters now doe now as they did in ancient times B. They doe now the same thing for they get to an upper-place in Metius Suffetius speculation as he did spying which side is strongest and likeliest to prevaile and to that side they will wheel about anon But that is too farre of I will take that which is neerer the eye These men doe as the men of Succoth did therefore these are as the men of Succoth were c. A. I can say nothing to that I know not what the men of Succoth were or whether there were such a people in the world B. It is your ignorance and not to be excused you know not the Scriptures and therefore your workes must needs be bad and you must walke as a man in the darke It is a very famous story touching the men of Succoth I le relate it as briefly as I can Gideon and his three hundred men were faint yet pursuing after Z●ba Judg. 8. 4 5. and Zalmunna Kings of Median Israels enemies And he said to the men of Succoth give I pray you loaves unto the people that follow mee for they are faint Gideon told them also as is likely That he would requite their kindnesse when God had delivered his enemies-up into his hands whereof Gideon made no question The Princes of Succoth living at ease and faring deliciously hearkned not to Gideon nor regarded how faint his men were They mock and jeere at Gideon Yes say they you will returne us our bread when you have your enemies in your hands When will that be That is a doubtfull case wee will not part with our bread upon such an hazard You thinke your selfe as sure of your enemies as if you had them in your hands you see not at what disadvantage you stand wee doe see it Your enemies are Kings Kings will helpe one the other They have power you are weake and faint You have not supply of necessaries and thinke you to overcome two Kings There is a great peradventure Wee will see the businesse cleared and the doubt resolved then wee shall know what is best for us to doe If you have the victory over the Kings then you shall have our bread If the Kings have victory over you then they shall have our bread Goe-on now and pursue faint you may and fall downe and starve for us you get no bread of us wee will not part with it at a peradventure You question not the victory It is a great question to us Are the heads of Zeba and Zalmunna Verse 6. in thy hands that wee should give bread unto thine Army This story is as soone understood as read as easily applied to our neuters now adayes A. Very well But how prove you That neuters were so grievously punished in ancient dayes B. I prove it first out of the Romane Chronicle The body of Metius Suffetius who stood neuter to spy which fide was strongest that thereunto he might turne was adjudged by a Councell of warre to have his body tyed unto two teemes of foure horses which halled contrary wayes So his body was drawne asunder and plucked into two peeces accordingly A. What have Christians to doe with what the Romans did It was the first and last punishment that ever the Romanes executed with so little respect or none at all To the Lawes of humanitie sayes the Historian himselfe B. Well then let it goe though it instructs us very well what may lawfully be don to neuters now adayes But wee must not so lightly passe over what we reade in the sacred Text upon which wee were even now and must set a marke Wee reade how the men of Succoth jeered and upbraided Gideon Now reade what Gideon replies to them Therefore when the Lord hath delivered Zeba and Zalmunna into mine hands then will I teare your flesh with the thornes of the Wildernesse and with briars And as he threatned to deale with them so he did deale He tooke the Elders of the Citie and thornes of the Wildernesse and briars and with them he taught the men of Succoth He taught them A sore Teaching but very exemplary for these men in our dayes They that will not be taught with words must be taught with paine A. Yea but Gideons teaching is no rule for us so to teach he taught with briars and thornes wee must be more mercifull B. More mercifull mercy to the wicked is crueltie to the good pittie to Gods enemies is but a fruit of bitter hatred to His friends But I will passe over that too yet wee must not passe over but observe with all observation what the LORD sayes Curse you Meroz said the Angel of the Lord Curse yee bitterly the Inhabitants thereof A. I pray you what was this Meroz B. Surely I cannot tell An obscure people they were they had no relation to Israel farther than that they were men partaking of the same common nature neere adjoyning to Israel and beholding the distresse lookers-on when mightie Adversaries were before them Israel Gods people distressed behinde them yet lookers on Israels affliction in the day of their calamitie beholding it with the eye but not regarding it A. Was that all B. All It was enough to bring a curse and to make it cleave unto them for ever Therefore curse yee Meroz never cease a Indesinenter Jun. calling for a curse till the curse come In cursing curse yee him because they came not out to help the Lord against the mightie The distresse of a person or a people is enough to command pitty If a person or people be fallen into the hands The day of Jacobs troubles is a discovering day When Jacob is fallen into the hands of theeves the prince of robbers hee shall know who is his neighbour of theeves But I will not make an if of the matter That which was a parable anciently is a truth now relates to Ireland and England both These two Nations are fallen into the hands of theeves God so disposing and suffering it to be Now woe to the lookers-on and passers by on the other side woe to them Now is the distinguishing time now wee shall know our friends who is our neighbour and our brother he that shewes mercy he is the neighbour though the adversary and enemy sayes He is a Samaritan and has a Devill A. By this account now which you have given of Meroz and of Israel in distresse fallen into the hands of Theeves Zealand and Holland should come-in now to help England B. That they should sure stronger bonds and engagements are upon them then was upon Meroz Stronger said I I should have said more But I forbeare A. What means it then that they have shipped over their Artillery instruments of death to furnish the enemy and adversary B. You must lay the blame of that upon the Devils instruments ungratefull wretches there and here and every where lay that upon them and not upon the countrey or people The adversary prevailed there and thrust forth a ship or two fraighted as wee know but doubtlesse the Hollanders doe know what the English have done for them to render them a free People they will not send over instruments of death therewith to cut English throats or to make them slaves they abhor the thoughts of such a requitall for old unrecountable favours from the English How much English noble blood hath been shed to maintain their cause How much A. Embassadours are now come to mediate a peace they say B. A peace What c. all the world knowes what followes God is making inquisitiō for blood he will require it at the hands of them that shed it And now the Parliament cannot take it ill that they are not treated with about the thing some call Peace The GOD of gods KING of kings and LORD of Lords is not treated with And yet when he giveth quietnesse who can make trouble And when he hideth his face who can behold him whether it be done against a nation or against Iob. 34. 29. a man only To shut-up all Thus we have concluded from unquestion'd premisses That though Holland hold their peace and stand-Neuters as Meroz did Yet enlargement and deliverance shall arise to the Est 4. 14. Church of England from another place It is a comfortable promise Hee shall send from heaven and save me England shall be saved the Church Psal 57. 3. there shall have a glorious salvation that it shall But yet God and man expects neighbours should shew themselves neighbours And who knowes whether all the kindnesse England shewed to Holland was not for such a time as this But if this move not surely the curse upon Meroz well thought on will move A cursed generation cursed from Gods mouth and commanded to be cursed by all the people of God Curse ye Meroz said the Angel of the Lord curse yee bitterly the inhabitants thereof Iudg. 5. 23. because they came not to the help of the LORD to the help of the LORD against the mighty So shall all thine enemies perish O Lord they shall leave their names for a curse to posterity But they that love thy Name shall be as the morning light which increaseth more and more till the perfect day So be it Amen FINIS