our said Lord the King and the Body of the City aforesaid upon their Oaths present that at the Session of our Soveraign Lord the King holden for the County of Middlesex at Hick's Hall in St. John's Street in the County aforesaid on Monday to wit 16 Deaem in the year of the Raign of our late Soveraign Lord Charles the Second of England Scotland France and Ireland King Defender of the Faith c. the thirtieth before Sir Reginald Forster Baronet Sir Philip Matthews Baronet Sir William Bowls Knight Sir Charles Pitfield Knight Thomas Robinson Humphrey Wyrley Thomas Hariott and William Hempson Esquires Justices of the said Soveraign Lord the King to enquire by the Oath of Honest and Lawful Men of the County of Middlesex aforesaid and by other Ways manners means by which they might better know as well within Liberties as without by whom the Truth of the matter may be better known and enquired of whatsoever Treasons Misprisions of Treasons Insurrections Rebellions Counterfeitings Clippings washings and false makings of the Money of this Kingdom of England and of other Kingdoms and Dominions whatsoever and of whatsoever Murders Felonies Man-slaughters Killings Burglaries and other Articles and Offences in the Letters Pattents of our said Soveraign Lord the King to them or any four or more of them therefore directed specified as also the Accessaries of the same within the County aforesaid as well within Liberties as without by whomsoever howsoever had made done or committed and the said Treasons and other the Premises to hear and determine according to the Law and Custom of this Kingdom of England being assigned by the Oath of Ralph Wain John Vaughan Richard Foster Thomas Paget Robert Newington Henry Tompkins Robert Hays John Greenwood Peter Stimpson Josias Crosley Richard Richman Augustine Bear John King Nathaniel Brett Francis Fisher and Samuel Linn Honest and Lawful Men of the County aforesaid sworn and charged to enquire for our said Soveraign Lord the King and the Body of the County aforesaid upon their Oaths It was presented that Thomas White otherwise Whitebread late of the Parish of St. Giles in the Fields in the County of Middlesex Clerk William Ireland late of the Parish aforesaid in the County aforesaid Clerk John Fenwick late of the Parish aforesaid in the County aforesaid Clerk Thomas Pickering of the Parish aforesaid in the County aforesaid Clerk John Grove of the Parish aforesaid in the County aforesaid Gent. as false Traitors against the most Illustrious Serene and most excellent Prince our said late Soveraign Lord Charles the Second by the Grace of God of England Scotland France and Ireland King Defender of the Faith c. Their Supreme and Natural Lord not having the Fear of God in their Hearts nor weighing the Duty of their Allegiance but being moved and seduced by the Instigation of the Devil The Cordial Love and True and Natural Obedience which faithful Subjects of our said Soveraign Lord the King towards him should and of right ought to bear utterly withdrawing and contriving and with all their Might intending the Peace and Tranquility of this Kingdom of England to disturb and the true Worship of God within this Kingdom of England used and by Law established to subvert and Rebellion within this Kingdom of England to move stir up and procure and the Cordial Love and true and due Obedience which Faithful Subjects of our said Lord the King towards him the said Soveraign Lord the King should and of right ought to bear utterly to withdraw put out and extinguish and our said Soveraign Lord the King to Death and final Destruction to bring and put the four and twentieth day of April in the year of the Reign of our late Soveraign Lord Charles the Second by the Grace of God of England Scotland France and Ireland King Defender of the Faith c. the thirtieth at the Parish of St. Giles in the Fields in the County aforesaid falsly maliciously subtilely advisedly and trayterously did purpose compass Imagine and Intend Sedition and Rebellion within this Kingdom of England to move stir up and procure and a miserable Slaughter among the Subjects of our said Lord the King to procure and cause and our said late Lord the King from the Regal State Title Power and Government of his Kingdom of Enggland utterly to deprive depose cast down and dis-inherit and him our said late Soveraign Lord the King to Death and final Destruction to bring and put and the Government of the said Kingdom and the sincere Religion of God rightly by the Laws of the said Kingdom established at their Will and Pleasure to change and alter and the State of this whole Kingom of England throughout all its parts well instituted and ordain'd wholly to subvert and destroy and war against our said late Soveraign Lord the King within this Kingdom of England to levy and those their most wicked Treasons and Traiterous Imaginations and Purposes aforesaid to fullfil and perfect They the aforesaid Thomas White alias Whitebread William Ireland John Fenwick Thomas Pickering and John Grove other false Traytors to the Jurors not known the said four and twentieth day of April in the year of the Reign of our said late Soveraign Lord the King the Thirtieth with Force and Arms c. at the Parish of St. Giles in the Fields in the County of Middlesex aforesaid falsly maliciously subtilely advisedly Devilishly and Traiterously did assemble themselves unite and meet together and then and there falsly maliciously subtilely advisedly devilishly and Trayterously did consult and agree our said late Soveraign Lord the King to Death and final Destruction to bring and put and the Religion within this Kingdom of England rightly and by the Laws of the same Kingdom established to the Superstition of the Romish Church to change and alter and the sooner to fulfil and perfect their said most wicked Treasons and Traiterous Imaginations and purposes they the said Thomas White alias Whitebread William Ireland John Fenwick Thomas Pickering and John Grove and other false Traytors of our said late Soveraign Lord the King to the Jurors unknown afterwards to wit the same 24th day of April in the said 30th year of our said late Soverain Lord the King at the said aforesaid Parish of St. Giles in the Fields in the County aforesaid falsly subtilely advisedly devilishly and Trayterously among themselves did conclude and agree that they the aforesaid Thomas Pickering John Grove him the said late Soveraign Lord the King should kill and murder and that they the said Thomas White alias Whitebread William Ireland John Fenwick and other false Traytors to the Jurors unknown A certain number of Masses between them then and there agreed for the Health of the Soul of him the said Thomas Pickering therefore should say Celebrate and perform and therefore should pay unto the said John Grove a certain Sum of Money between them then and there agreed and the Jurors aforesaid upon their Oath aforesaid did
further present that the said Thomas Pickering and John Grove upon the agreement aforesaid then and there falsly subtilely advisedly Maliciously devilishy and Trayterously did take upon them and did promise to the said Thomas White alias Whitebread William Ireland John Fenwick and other false Traytors of our late said Soveraign Lord the King to the Jurors aforesaid unknown then and there falsly subtilely advisedly maliciously devilishy and Trayterously did promise that they the said Thomas Pickering and John Grove would kill and murder our said late Soveraign Lord the King and they the said Thomas White alias Whitebread William Ireland John Fenwick Thomas Pickering John Grove and other false Traytors of oursaid late Soveraign Lord the King afterwards to wit the said four and twentieth day of April in the thirtieth year aforesaid at the said aforesaid Parish of St. Giles in the Fields in the County of Middlesex aforesaid subtilely advisedly maliciously devilishly and Trayterously did severally every one of them give their Faith each to the other and upon the Sacrament then and there trayterously did swear and promise to conceal and not to divulge their said most wicked Treasons and Trayterous Compassings Consultations and Purposes so between them had him our said late Soveraign Lord the King Trayterously to kill and murder and the Romish Religion in this Kingdom of England to be used to introduce and the true Reformed Religion in this Kingdom of England rightly and by the Laws of the same Kingdom established to alter and change and that the said aforesaid Thomas Pickering and John Grove in Execution of their Traiterous Agreement aforesaid afterwards to wit the same Four and Twentieth day of April in the Thirtieth year aforesaid and divers other days and times after at the said aforesaid Parish of St. Giles in the Fields in the County aforesaid Muskets Pistols Swords Daggers and other offensive and cruel Weapons him the our said late Soveraign Lord the King to kill and murder falsly subtilely advisedly maliciously and Trayterously did prepare and obtain for themselves had and kept and that they the aforesaid Thomas Pickering and John Grove afterwards to wit the said Four and Twentieth Day of April in the Thirtieth year aforesaid and divers days and times afterwards with Force and Arms c. at the Parish aforesaid in the County aforesaid and in other places within the County of Middlesex aforesaid falsly subtilely advisedly maliciously devilishly and Trayterously did lie in wait and indeavour our said late Soveraign Lord the King to murder and that the said Thomas White alias Whitebread William Ireland John Fenwick and other false Traitors to the Jurors unknown afterwards to wit the same Four and Twentieth day of April in the Thirtieth year aforesaid at the Parish aforesaid in the County of Middlesex aforesaid falsly subtilely advisedly maliciously devilishly and Trayterously did prepare perswade excite abett comfort and counsel Four other Persons Men to the Jurors unknown and Subjects of our said late Soveraign Lord the King him our said late Soveraign Lord the King Trayterously to kill and murder against the Duty of their Allegiance against the Peace of our said late Soveraign Lord the King his Crown and Dignity and against the Form of the Statute in that Case made and provided and thereupon it was so far proceeded that afterwards to wit at the Court of Goal-delivery of our Soveraign Lord the King of Newgate at Justice Hall in the Old Baily in the Suburbs of the City of London in the Parish of St. Sepulchre in the Ward of Farington without London aforesaid the seventeenth day of December in the Thirtieth year aforesaid before the Justices of our said Lord the King then and there being present held by adjourment for the County of Middlesex aforesaid before whom the Indictment aforesaid was then depending came the aforesaid William Ireland Thomas Pickering and John Grove under the Custody of Sir Richard How Knight Sir John Chapman Knight Sheriffs of the County of Middlesex aforesaid into whose Custody for the Cause aforesaid before that were committed being there brought to the Bar in their proper Persons and immediately being severally spoken unto concerning the Premisses above charged upon them how they would acquit themselves thereof the aforesaid William Ireland Thomas Pickering and John Grove did say that they were not thereof guilty and for the same for good and bad they severally put themselves upon the Country and by a certain Jury of the Country on that behalf in due manner Impaneld sworn and charged then and there in the same Court before the Justices of Goal delivery aforesaid were tryed and that upon that Tryal between our said late Soveraign Lord the King and the aforesaid William Ireland Thomas Pickering and John Grove at London aforesaid to wit at Justice Hall in the Old Baily aforesaid in the Parish and Ward aforesaid the Defendant Titus Oates by the name of Titus Oates late of the Parish of St. Sepulchre aforesaid in the Ward aforesaid Clerk was a Witness produced on the Behalf of our late Soveraign Lord the King upon the Tryal aforesaid and before the aforesaid Justices of Goal-delivery in the Court aforesaid then and there held upon the Holy Evangelists of God to speak and testifie the Truth the whole Truth and nothing but the Truth of and in the Premisses between our said late Soveraign Lord the King and the aforesaid William Ireland Thomas Pickering and John Grove put in Issue was duely sworn and that he the aforesaid Titus Oates then and there in the Court of Goal delivery aforesaid upon his Oath aforesaid upon the Indictment aforesaid at the Parish and Ward aforesaid by his own proper act and consent of his most wicked Mind falsly voluntarily and corruptly did say depose swear and to the Jurors of the Jury aforesaid then and there sworn and Impanel'd to try the Issue aforesaid between our said late Soveraign Lord the King and the aforesaid William Ireland Thomas Pickering and John Grove did give in Evidence that there was a Trayterous Consult of Jesuits that were assembled at a certain Tavern called the White Horse Tavern in the Strand in the White Horse-Tavern in the Strand in the County of Midd. aforesaid meaning upon the Four and Twentieth day of April in the Year of our Lord 1678. At which Consult Whitebread Fenwick Ireland the aforesaid Thomas White alias Whitebread John Fenwick and William Ireland meaning and he the said Titus Oates were present and that the Jesuites aforesaid did separate themselves into several lesser Companies and that the Jesuites aforesaid came to a resolution to murder the said our late Lord the King and that he the said Titus Oates did carry the Resolution aforesaid from Chamber to Chamber and did see that Resolution signed by them the aforesaid Jesuites meaning whereas in truth and in deed the aforesaid Titus Oates was not present at any Consult of the Jesuites at the White Horse-Tavern aforesaid in the Strand in
I Do appoint Richard Sare to Print the two Tryals of Titus Otes for Perjury And Order That no other Person do presume to Print the same Jeffreys THE TRYALS Convictions Sentence OF TITUS OTES UPON TWO INDICTMENTS For Willful Malicious and Corrupt PERJURY AT THE KINGS-BENCH-BARR at Westminster Before the Right Honourable George Lord Jeffreys Baron of Wem Lord Chief Justice of His Majesties Court of Kings-Bench and the rest of the Judges of that Court. Upon Friday the 8th and Saturday the 9th days of May Anno Domini 1685. And in the First Year of the Reign of our Soveraign Lord King JAMES the II. c. LONDON Printed for R. Sare at Grays-Inn-Gate in Holborn and are to be sold by Randal Taylor 1685. Die veneris oct Maii 1685. in Banco Regis De Term. Pasch Anni Regni Regis Jacobi primi Dominus Rex versus Titus Oates THis day being apointed for the Tryal of one of the Causes between our Soveraign Lord the King and Titus Oates for Perjury the same began between eight and nine in the Morning and proceeded in the manner following First Proclamation was made for Silence then the Defendant was called who appeared in Person being brought up by Rule from the King's Bench Prison where we was in Custody and was advised to look to his Challenges to the Jury that were Impanel'd to try the Cause Oates My Lord I am to manage my own Defence and have a great many Papers and things which I have brought in order to it I pray I may have some Conveniency for the Managing my own Tryal Lord C. Justice Ay Ay let him sit down there within the Bar and let him have Conveniency for his Papers Clerk Crown Cryer swear Sir William Dodson Oates My Lord I except against Sir William Dodson Mr. Att. Gen. What is the Cause of Exception Mr. Oats L. C. J. Why do you challenge him Oates My Lord I humbly conceive in these cases of Criminal Matters the Defendant has Liberty of excepting against any of the Jurors without shewing Cause provided there be a full Jury besides L. C. J. No no that is not so you are mistaken in that Mr. Oates Oates My Lord I am advised so I do not understand the Law my self L. C. J. But we tell you then it cannot be allow'd if Mr. Attorney will consent to wave him well and good Mr. Att. Gen. No my Lord I know no reason for it I cannot consent to any such thing L. C. J. Then if you will not have him sworn you must shew your Cause presently Oates My Lord I cannot assign any Cause L. C. J. Then he must be sworn Cl. Cr. Swear him Cryer Sir William Dodson take the Book you shall well and truly try this Issue between our Soveraign Lord the King and Titus Oates and a true Verdict give according to the Evidence so help you God Cl. Cr. Swear Sir Edmund Wiseman which was done Richard Aley Esq who was sworn Benjamin Scutt Oates My Lord I challenge him L. C. J. For what Cause Oates My Lord he was one of the Grand Jury that found the Bill L. C. J. Was he so that is an exception indeed what say you Mr. Attorney Att. Gen. My Lord I believe he was upon one of the Indictments but I think it was not this L. C. J. But if he were in either of them he cannot be so impartial Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord we will not stand upon it we 'll wave him Cl. Cl. Thomas Fowlis Oates Pray let me see that Gentleman who was shown to him Are you not a Goldsmith in Fleetstreet between the two Temples Fowlis Yes I am Oates Very well Sir I do not except against you only I desire to know whether it were you or not Cl. Cr. Swear him which was done Thomas Blackmore Sworn Peter Pickering Sworn Robert Beddingfield Sworn Thomas Rawlinson Sworn Roger Reeves Sworn Edward Kempe sworn Oates My Lord I challenge him L. C. J. You speak too late he is sworn already Oates My Lord they are so quick I could not speak but he was one of the Grand Jury too L. C. J. We cannot help it now Mr. Att. Gen. I did know that he was so but to shew that we mean nothing but fair we are content to wave him L. C. J. You do very well Mr. Attorney General let him be withdrawn Cl. Cr. Mr. Kempe you may take your case swear Ambrose Isted which was done Henry Collier Sworn Richard Howard Sworn Cl. Cr. Cryer count these Cryer One c. Sir William Dodson Cl. Cr. Richard Howard Cryer Twelve good men and true hearken to the Record and stand together and hear the Evidence The Names of the Twelve sworn were these Jury Sir William Dodson Sir Edmund Wiseman Richard Aley Thomas Fowlis Thomas Blackmore Peter Pickering Robert Beddingfield Thomas Rawlinson Roger Reeves Ambrose Isted Henry Collier and Richard Howard Oates Before the Councel opens the Cause I desire to move one thing to your Lordship L. C. J. What is it you would have Oates My Lord I have three Witnesses that are very material one's to my Defence who are now Prisoners in the King's Bench for whom I moved yesterday that I might have a Rule of Court to bring them up to day but it was objected that they were in Execution and so not to be brought I humbly move your Lordship now that I may have a Habeas Corpus for them to bring them immediately hither L. C. J. We cannot do it Oates Pray Good my Lord they are very material Witnesses for me and I mov'd yesterday for them L. C. J. You did so but we told your Councel then and so we tell you now we cannot do it by Law it will be an escape Oates My Lord I shall want their Testimony L. C. J. Truely we cannot help it the Law will not allow it and you must be satisfied Cl. Cr. Gentlemen you that are sworn of this Jury hearken to the Record by Virtue of an Inquisition taken at Justice Hall in the Old Bayly in the Parish of St. Sepulcher in the Ward of Faringdon without London upon Wednesday the 10th of December in the 36th of the Raign of our late Soveraign Lord Charles the II. by the grace of God of England Scotland France and Ireland King Defender of the Faith c. Before Sir James Smith Knight Mayor of the City of London Sir George Jefferies Knight and Baronet Lord Chief Justice of this Honourable Court Sir Thomas Jones Knight Lord Chief Justice of the Court of Common Pleas William Montague Lord Chief Baron of the Exchequer Sir James Edwards Knight Sir John More Knight Aldermen of the said City Sir Thomas Jenner Knight one of his Majesties Sergeants at Law and Recorder of the same City and others their Companions Justices of Oyer and Terminer by the Oaths of twelve Jurors Honest and Lawful Men of the City of London aforesaid who then and there being sworn and charged to enquire for
the County of Middlesex aforesaid upon the 24th of April in the Year of our Lord 1678. nor did carry any Resolution to murder our said late Lord the King from Chamber to Chamber by any Persons to be signed and so he the aforesaid Titus Oates on the 17th day of Decemb. in the Thirtieth Year aforesaid at the Justice Hall aforesaid in the Court aforesaid upon the Tryal aforesaid upon the Indictment aforesaid between our said late Lord the King and the aforesaid William Ireland Thomas Pickering and John Grove so as aforesaid had by his own proper act and Consent and of his most wicked Mind falsly voluntarily and corruptly in manner and form aforesaid did commit voluntary and corrupt Perjury to the great Displeasure of Almighty God in manifest contempt of the Laws of this Kingdom of England to the Evil and Pernicious Example of all others in like case offending and against the Peace of our said late Soveraign Lord the Knig his Crown and Dignity Upon this Indictment he has been Arraign'd and thereunto hath pleaded not Guilty and for his Tryal hath put himself upon the Country and His Majestie 's Attorney General likewise which Country are you your Charge is to enquire whether the Defendant be guilty of this Perjury and Offence whereof he is now indicted or whether not guilty If you find him Guilty you are to say to if you find him not guilty you are to say so and no more and hear your Evidence Cryer make Proclamation Oates Hold Sir I beg one Favour of your Lordship to give me leave to have that part of the Record wherein I am said to have sworn such and such things read distinctly in Latine L. C. J. Let it be read in Latin Cl. Cr. Juravit jur ' jurat ' predict ' ad tunc et ibidem jurat ' et impanelat ' ad triena exitum predict inter dict' Dn'um nostrum Regem et prefat ' Will'm Ireland Thomam Pickering et Iohannem Grove in Evidentiis dedit quod fuit proditoria Consultatio Anglicae Consult ' Jesuit ' qui Assemblat ' fuer ' apud quandam Tabernam vocat ' the White Horse Tavern in le Strand Le White Horse Tavern in le Strand in Com' Mid ' predict ' innuendo super vicesimum quartum diem April ' Ann. Dom. milesimo sexcentesimo septuagesimo Octavo ad quam quidere Consultationem Whitebread Fenwick Ireland predict ' Thomam White alias Whitebread Johannem Fenwick et William Ireland innuendo et prefat ' Titus Oates fuer ' present ' et quod Jesuitae predict ' sese separaver ' in seperales minores Conventus quodque Jesuitae predict ' venerunt ad Resolutionem ad murdrand dictum Dn'um Regem et quod ipse idem Titus Oates portavit Resolutionem predict ' a Camera ad Cameram et videbat Resolutionem illam signat ' per ipsos praefat Jesuitas innuendo That is the Perjury that you are said to have sworn Oates Pray go on Sir Ubi revera Cl. Cr. Ubi revera et in predict ' Titus Oates non presens fuit ad aliquam Consultationem Jesuit ' apud le White Horse Tavern predict ' in le Strand in Com' Mid ' predict ' super vicesimum quartum diem Aprilis Anno Domini milesimo sexcentesimo septuagesimo octavo necportavit aliquam Resolutionem ad d'tum d'num Regem murdrand a Camera ad Cameram per aliquas Perfunas fignand ' Mr. Just Withens Now you have read it go on Sir to make your Proclamation Cl. Cr. Cryer make an Ho-yes Cryen Ho-yes If any one can inform our Soveraign Lord the King the Kings Sergeant the Kings Attorney General or this inquest now taken concerning the Perjury and Offence whereof the Defendant Titus Oates stands Indicted let them come forth and they shall be heard for now he stands upon his Discharge Mr. Phipps May it please your Lordship and you Gentlemen of the Jury Oates My Lord I desire your Lordship and the Court would be of Councel for me in one thing which I take to be a Fault and Error in my Indictment L. C. J. Look you Mr. Oates whatever you have to say of that nature you must not speak to it now you will have your time as to that hereafter in case you be Convicted Oates My Lord I have but one small exception to open to you L. C. J. We are now upon the Fact only Oates My Lord I beg you would give me leave only to tell you of a mistake in the Indictment which I hope when I have opened will satisfie your Lordship that it ought not to be put upon me or the Court to try this Cause or to be sure if there should be a Conviction I hope I may move an Arrest of the Judgement L. C. J. So I tell you you may but not now Oates Good my Lord hear me but a few Words the Indictment charges me to have given such and such Evidence that there was such a Consult of the Jesuites at the White-Horse Tavern in the Strand the 24th of April 1678. that the Jesuites did afterwards divide themselves in several lesser Companies that they came there to a resolution to murder the late King and that I swore that I carryed that Resolution from Chamber to Chamber and saw the Resolution signed by them so the Word is Signat ' now the Perjury assigned is that I was not present at that Consult nor did carry the Resolution from Chamber to Chamber to be signed and there the word is Signand ' now I conceive if Signat ' be the word that is used in setting forth the Oath that I made The Assignment of the Perjury ought to follow that form and the Word there ought to be Signat ' too being Signand ' I take that to be an Error L. C. J. Look that is not proper at this time as I told you at first but withal I do not think there is any great matter in what you say Mr. Att. Gen. Either I do not understand Mr. Oates what he means by the Objection or he will find himself much mistaken in it L. C. J. Well well we have nothing to do with that now go on with the Cause Mr. Phipps May it please your Lordship and you Gentlemen of the Jury this is an Indictment against Titus Oates for Perjury which Indictment sets forth that Thomas White alias Whitebread William Ireland John Fenwick Thomas Pickering and John Grove the Sixteenth of Dec. in the Thirtieth year of the late King at the Old Baily were indicted of High Treason for conspiring the Death of the King and that Ireland Pickering and Grove were tryed the 17th of Decemb. in that year and upon that Indictment Titus Oates was produced as a Witness on the behalf of the King against the said Ireland Pickering and Grove being sworn to give Evidence to the Jury that were Impanelled and sworn to try that Cause he did swear and give in evidence that there
that ever did appear upon the Stage either in this Kingdom or in any other Nation Mr. Sollic Gen. We will now go on with our Evidence and prove all the parts of the Indictment and first produce the Record of the Tryal of Ireland and then by Witnesses Viva voce that were present at that Tryal we shall prove what he swore and then prove that Oath of his to be false swear Mr. Swift which was done where is the Record of Ireland's Tryal Mr. Swift Here it is my Lord. Mr. Recorder Is that a true Copy Sir Mr. Swift Yes I examined this from the Record it is a true Copy L. C. J. Read it Mr. Att. Gen. If Dr. Oates does desire the whole may be read let it be so otherwise a Word of it may serve it being only an Inducement Oates Yes I desire it may be all read L. C. J. It must be read if he will have it Mr. Att. Gen. Well I submit it I did only offer it to save the time of the Court. Oates I would save the time of the Court too all that I can but I think it may be material for me to have the whole read L. C. J. In God's name let it be read we will not hinder you in any thing that may be for your defence Cl. Cr. Memorandum quod Mr. Att. Gen. Now this long Record in Latine is read I would fain know whether it be to any great purpose but only to spend time L. C. J. Nay I think it has not been very edifying to a great many do you think Mr. Oates that the Jury who are Judges of this Fact do understand it Oates I cannot tell may be they may my Lord. Mr. Jus Withens Do you understand it your self Mr. Oates Oates That 's not any Question here but to oblige the Court and the Jury I desire it may be read in English too L. C. J. No the Court understands it well enough and they can tell the Jury what it is it is only the Copy of a Record to prove that Ireland was tryed for High Treason at the Old Baily the 17th of Dec. 1678 Mr. Soll. Gen. Now my Lord we will call our Witnesses to swear what Oates did at that Tryal swear Pray swear Mr. Foster which was done Mr. Att. Gen. Pray Mr. Foster will you acquaint the Court and the Jury whether Dr. Oates was produced as a Witness at Ireland's Tryal and what he did there depose about a Consult in April 78. Mr. Foster My Lord I was so unhappy as to be one of that Jury by whom Mr. Ireland Mr. Pickering and Mr. Groves was tryed Jury Men. My Lord we desire that Mr. Foster would lift up his Voice for we cannot hear him Mr. Foster Truly my Lord I have been very sick of late and am not now very well and therefore cannot speak louder than I do L. C. J. Go nearer the Jury and speak as loud as you can Mr. Foster My Lord I say I did see Mr. Oates produced as an Evidence at the Sessions in the Old Bayly where I was so unhappy as to be a Jury Man when Mr. Pickering Mr. Ireland Mr. Grove and Mr. Whitebread were tryed Mr. Att. Gen. When was that Mr. Foster It was in December 78. Mr. Att. Gen. And what did Oates then swear Mr. Foster I did see Mr. Oates sworn as an Evidence there in behalf of the King against the Prisoners and he did then swear that there was a meeting of several Jesuites at the White Horse Tavern in the Strand upon the 24th of April 78. and that Mr. Whitebroad Mr. Ireland and Mr. Fenwick were present at the Meeting and there they did consult the Death of the King and the altering of the Religion and some went away and others came at last they reduced themselves into several smaller Companies or Clubs and they came to a resolution that Pickering and Grove should go on to assassinate the King for which the one was to have 1500 Pound and the other 30000 Masses and that this Resolution was drawn up by one Mico if I am not mistaken in his name I have it in my Notes I then took of the Evidence and he swore further that he himself went with this Resolution to several of their Chambers he went to Whitebread's Chamber and saw Whitebread sign it he went to Fenwicks Chamber and saw Fenwick sign it and went to Irelands Chamber and saw Ireland sign it and this was upon the 24th of April 78. My Lord I am positive in this for I had the good hap to take the Notes at the Tryal for my own help being a Jury-Man and I never look't upon those Notes afterwards till the printed Tryal came out and then I compared my Notes with the Print and found them to agree and I have kept them ever since by me and this is all under my own hand as I have testifyed Oates My Lord may I ask this Gentleman a Question L. C. J. Ay if the Kings Councel have done with him Mr. Att. Gen. Yes my Lord we have done with him Mr. Foster Pray my Lord give me leave to sit down for I am not able to stand Oates My Lord I desire you to ask that Gentleman whether in the Oath that I took I call'd it a Consult or I call'd it a Traiterous Consult Mr. Foster Truly I think you call'd it both if I am not mistaken but if your Lordship please I will look upon my Notes L. C. J. You may look upon your Notes to refresh your Memory if you will Mr. Just Withens Truly I think if it were a Consult to murder the King it must be a traiterous one without doubt Oates Sir that is not to the Purpose my Question is what I swore it was L. C. J. He tells you he beleives you did swear both ways Mr. Foster At that Consult he said such a Resolution was taken and I think he called it a Traiterous Consult Oates If you please I 'le tell your Lordship the Reason why I asked that Question L. C. J. No you may save your self the trouble of that you best know the reason of your own Questions he has given you a satisfactory answer Oates Then if your Lordship please ask him this Question whether I swore that all these 3 Jesuites were present at one time or how many of them L. C. J. You hear the Question what say you to it Mr. Foster Sir you swore that Ireland Fenwick and Whitebread were at that Consult but whether they were all three of them there at one time I cannot tell or which of them were together but this you did swear that they were there and came to such a resolution and you carryed it to all their Chambers and did see them sign it Mr. Just Withens He gives you a plain account what you did swear I think Mr. Oates Oates Very well my Lord I would ask him a third Question if you please L. C. J. Ay in God's Name ask
I demand an answer to it upon the Oath he has taken L. C. J. And I tell you upon the Oath you have taken you are not bound to answer any such Question Oates Good my Lord let my Questions be answered L. C. J. No Sir they shall not How now do not think to put Irregularities upon us if you will behave your self as you ought to do and keep to that which is proper well and good Oates If your Lordship please I think this very proper for me L. C. J. What to ask such improper Questions as these are Oates Truly my Lord I think they are fit Questions to be asked L. C. J. But we are all of another opinion Oates My Lord I desire to know whether they are not set on by their Superiours to do this L. C. J. That is not a fair Question neither Oates Give me leave to make my defence my Lord I beseech you L. C. J. Ay in Gods name but I pray you then make it in a regular and becoming way for I know of no Priviledge you have more than other People to use Witnesses as you do Oates My Lord I look upon my self as hardly used in the case L. C. J. I care not what you look upon your self to be if you will ask Questions ask none but fair Questions and while you keep within Bounds you shall be heard as well as any of the Kings Subjects but if you will break out into Questions that are impertinent extravagant or ensnaring we must correct you and keep you within proper Limits Oates Then my Lord I ask whether he was not a Witness at the Tryal of the Five Jesuites and at Langhorn's Tryal L. C J. Ay that is a proper Question what say you to 't Sir Mr. Hilsley I was so Sir Oates Pray my Lord ask him what Credit he received at those Tryals L. C. J. What a Question is that to ask any man Oates My Lord I think it is a fair Question L. C. J. No indeed it is not a fair one at all Oates My Lord I desire to know what induces him to come here as a Witness now since it appears that now he comes to give an Evidence that he gave six years ago and was not believed Mr. Hilsley My Lord I am subpoena'd L. C. J. He has given you an answer to the Question though I think it was an idle Question and not at all to the purpose Oates It may be he may have some particular reason to induce him to it now L. C. J. Well he tells you he came because he was subpoena'd and that is sufficient He is not compellable to be a Witness unless he be subpoena'd but if a man will come without a Subpoena and give Evidence in a Cause that is no objection to his testimony Oates My Lord I desire to know of him whether he is to have any Reward for swearing in this Cause L. C. J. What say you Sir are you to have any Reward for your Evidence Mr. Hilsley None at all as I know of my Lord I assure you Mr. Just Withens He is not paid for his Evidence Mr. Oates Oates If he be or be not I cannot tell nor do I know who ever was paid for it L. C. J. Have you any more Questions to ask him Oates Pray my Lord I desire to know what was the occasion of his coming away from St. Omers Mr. Hilsley I had finished my Studies Oates Pray my Lord be pleased to ask him if he never heard of any Consult of the Jesuites here in England in the Month of April 78. and from whom he did hear of it Mr. Hilsley I did hear of it among the rest of the Students of the Colledge L. C. J. What did you hear of Mr. Hilsley I did hear of a Consult of ahe Fathers in April 1678. Mr. Att. Gen. Yes there was but not such an one as Mr. Oates speaks of nor was he at it Mr. J. Holloway For what was that Consult I pray you Mr. Hilsley It was nothing but a Triennial Congregation about the Affairs of the Society L. C. J. What were they to do there Mr. Hilsley My Lord I was informed among them there that it was only what they used to have once in 3 years for ordinary Affairs Oates My Lord he pretends to tell when I came thither I desire to know of him from what time it was he saw me there and how often Mr. Hilsley Generally every day as near as I can remember I think Mr. Oates you and I Mr. Oates went to School in the same place Oates Pray how many days was I absent from thence in that time you were there Mr. Hilsley You were there generally as often as I I do not know whether ever you mist a day or no. Oates Pray my Lord will you ask this Gentleman one question more whether he can particularly tell that he did see me every day at St. Omers For 't is not enough for him to swear that he saw me there but he ought to give an account how he comes to know it by some particular Circumstances L. C. J. He has given you several Circumstances of his Knowledge for he says he was there all the while from your coming till 23d of April New Stile that he came for England he says he was a Scholar in the same Form and Class with you and because he does not remember himself to have been absent he does not remember you to be absent neither Mr. Att. Gen. And he swears particularly to the very time he came over which was April 14th Old Stile Oates Well I have no more Questions to ask this Gentleman L. C. J. Then call another Mr. Soll. Gen. Cryer call Mr. John Dorrel who was sworn L. C. J. Look ye Mr. Attorney you did open things at the first for Methods sake by Periods of time the first was Hilsleys coming over the next was the meeting with Bournaby now pray observe that Method and call that Bournaby next Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord we shall call him by and by but we have not done with this business about Hilsley we have some Witnesses that will give an Evidence to strengthen and back his Testimony Come Mr. Dorrel what have you to say to this matter Mr. Dorrel My Lord in April 1678. I came from Brussels to England where presently after I came I was with one Mr. Osbourn and my Mother and there was a Discourse between my Mother and him about Religion L. C. J. Where was that Mr. Dorrel It was here in England Mr. Att. Gen. Now tell the time when that was Mr. Dorrel As near as I can guess it was 15 or 16 of April Old Stile in the year 1678. Mr. Att. Gen. Well Sir go on with your Story Mr. Dorrel My Mother was laughing at his Religion and telling him some ridiculous Stories and he replyed there are a great many that are so ignorant that are bred up in the Religion of the Church
Gen. Did you observe him to be in the Hall or at the Exercises Mr. Doddington Yes I saw him several times Mr. Sol. Gen. Do you remember the time Mr. Hilsley went away Mr. Doddington Yes it was a little after Easter and I do remember that two or three days after I went into the Infirmary and saw Mr. Oates there and had discourses with him Mr. Att. Gen. Do you remember Mr. Bournaby's coming to St. Omers and when was it Mr. Doddington Yes the first of May Mr. Bournaby came to St. Omers and the next day I saw Oates with him and for ten or twelve daies successively they were in one anothers company and then of a sudden the Correspondence broke off but I know not upon what account L. C. J. Was he Reader there as you remember Mr. Doddington I do remember he did Read in the Sodality L. C. J. When was that Mr. Doddington I remember he Read at Shrovetide Oates Did you hear me Read there Mr. Doddington Yes that I did Sir Oates Were you of the Sodality Mr. Doddington Yes I was Sir Mr. Att. Gen. Do you remember the time when he came away from St. Omers Mr. Doddington It was about Midsummer my Lord. Mr. Att. Gen. Were you out of the Colledge your self at any time when he was there Mr. Doddington No I was not L C. J. Come I will ask you a plain Question Was he so long at any time out of the Colledge as to come to London and stay here two or three daies and come back again Mr. Doddington My Lord he was so Remarkable by his Stories and Ridiculous Actions and falling out with every one of the Colledge that if he had been absent we must needs have missed him L. C. J. Did you miss him at any time Mr. Doddington My Lord I never miss'd him but one day L. C. J. When was that Mr. Doddington They said he was gone to Watton L. C. J. What time was that Mr. Doddington In January about six weeks after he came first Oates Pray my Lord ask him what Religion he is of Mr. Doddington I am a Roman Catholick Oats And a Scholar of St. Omers L. C. J. Make your Remarks by and by Oates Pray my Lord ask him what Name he went by at St. Omers Mr. Doddington By the Name of Hollis my Lord. Oates Pray my Lord ask him how long he was Resident there Mr. Doddington Near upon five years Oates Pray my Lord ask him the occasion of his coming over at first Mr. Doddington I had business in England and I had a mind to see my Friends Oates Pray my Lord ask him whether he did not pretend at the five Jesuits Tryal that he came over upon the King's Proclamation to call home those that were in the Seminaries L. C. J. Were you at the Tryal of the five Jesuits Mr. Doddington Yes I was but if I came over upon the King's Proclamation what hurt is there in that L. C. J. None at all as I know of Oates Pray my Lord ask him whether he did return again to St. Omers or no. Mr. Doddington My Lord I pass'd by St. Omers once but I never stay'd a day in the Colledge since Oates Pray my Lord be pleased to ask him whether he ever heard of a Consult of the Jesuits in April 78. Mr. Doddington I did hear of a Congregation Oates Call it a Consult or a Congregation it is all one L. C. J. He says he did hear of it Oats Ask him by whom he did hear of it Mr. Doddington I saw the Provincial when he came back from England Oates Who was that Provincial what was his Name Mr. Doddington Mr. Whitebread Oates Was not Mr. Whitebread a Resident sometimes at St. Omers Mr. Doddington Yes a while he was Oates Pray was not that House under his Government Mr. Doddington My Lord I can give no account of that but it is generally under the Government of the Rector of St. Omers Mr. Hanseys Pray Sir give me leave to ask you one Question Mr. Oates speaks of Mr. Whitebread Pray how did Mr. Whitebread use Oates when he came back from England Mr. Doddington I heard say he did check him very severely for his many miscarriages L. C. J. He heard it he says but he does not know it of his own knowledge that is no Evidence Mr. Sol. Gen. Pray swear Mr. William Gerrard which was done Mr. Att. Gen. Were you at St. Omers Mr. Gerrard in the years 77. and 78 Mr. Gerrard Yes I was Mr. Att. Gen. Did you know Mr. Oates there Mr. Gerrard Where is he Sir Mr. Att. Gen. There he is in that corner do you know him Mr. Gerrard Yes Mr. Att. Gen. When came he to St. Omers Mr. Gerrard He came to St. Omers in the year of our Lord 77. and he went away in June 78. Mr. Att. Gen. Was he there all the time Mr. Gerrard I never remembred to have miss'd him but only once when he went to Watton for a night Mr. Att. Gen. By what Tokens do you remember him at any time there in April or May Mr. Gerrard The second of May we had a Play and he was there then and I remember the 26th of May he was confirmed and so was I it being St. Augustin's day and in the Refectory he had a Table by himself and I used alwaies at meal-times to pass by that Table and make a Bow to the Fathers above before I sate down at Table and I do not remember that ever he was absent and if he had I should surely have miss'd him L. C. J. When was St. Augustin's day that you say you and he were confirm'd Mr. Gerrard It was the 26th of May. Mr. Att. Gen. Do you remember him in April there Mr. Gerrard I cannot tell any particular circumstance in April but I do not remember to have miss'd him at all in April Mr. Sol. Gen. But you saw him there the second of May you say Mr. Gerrard Yes I did so and the 26th of May. Oates The 26th of May Old Style I was there my Lord. L. C. J. Ay but he says the 26th of May New Style Oates I was not there then my Lord. L. C. J. He swears you were Mr. Sol. Gen. Pray between the second and 27th of May New Style was he absent from St. Omers at any time Mr. Gerrard I never remember to have miss'd him at all in that time Mr. Att. Gen. Do you remember Mr. Pool's and Mr. Hilsley's going away Mr. Gerrard I do remember Mr. Hilsley's and Mr. Pool's going away but I cannot speak particularly and exactly what time that was L. C. J. Is it usual to have Scholars go away without being miss'd Mr. Gerrard No my Lord and he had a particular place by himself Oates Pray ask him my Lord how he came to know that I went away in June Mr. Gerrard We miss'd him in his place then and 't was discoursed of all over the Town that when the Provincial
and said he to me Know you nothing what the business is that they are to do at the Congregation Said I Mr. Lucy I know not what they do I think not much for I hear at those Meetings many times they stay an hour or two and have done when they have chosen their Procurator Mr. Sol. Gen. And you believe he was there all the time Mr. Clavering Yes my Lord I do believe it Oates Pray my Lord let me ask him a question or two L. C. J. Ay what you will Oates What Religion is this Gentleman of Mr. Clavering I am a Catholick Oates A Roman Catholick you mean I suppose Mr. Clavering Yes I always understood it so Mr. Oates Oates My Lord I desire to know how he came not to be produc'd at the Jesuits Tryal to give this Evidence he gives now Mr. Clavering I can give a very good reason perhaps I was then my Lord in Germany L. C. J. That 's reason good enough of all conscience Mr. Just Withens That was a new question and you have a satisfactory answer I think Mr. Sol. Gen. Swear Mr. John Copley which was done Mr. Att. Gen. Were you at St. Omers in 77 and 78 Mr. Copley Yes I was Mr. Att. Gen. Was Oates there then Mr. Copley I saw him all the time he was there Mr. Sol. Gen. When did he come thither Mr. Copley He came a little before Christmas to the best of my remembrance Mr. Sol. Gen. When went he away Mr. Copley In 78. Mr. Sol. Gen. In what month in 78 Mr. Copley In June 78. Mr. Sol. Gen. Was he absent any part of that time Mr. Copley I was there and he was there too Mr. Sol. Gen. Was he absent any part of the time from Christmas to June Mr. Copley Nay I am sure he was there all the time except that night that he was absent at Watton and that was in January Oates Pray my Lord ask him what Religion he is of Mr. Copley Does your Lordship ask me that question L. C. J. Yes I do ask you Mr. Oates would know it Mr. Copley I am a Roman Catholick my Lord. Mr. Sol. Gen. Swear Mr. Cook which was done Mr. Att. Gen. Did you know Mr. Oates at St. Omers and when Mr. Cook He came there a little before Christmas 77. Mr. Att. Gen. How came you to know him there Mr. Cook I liv'd in the House then Mr. Att. Gen. Was he there all April and May Mr. Cook Yes he was till the latter-end of June Mr. Att. Gen. Did you see him every day Mr. Cook Yes I did Mr. Att. Gen. Can you tell any particular time Mr. Cook I am positive he was the 30th of April Mr. Att. Gen. What stile Mr. Cook New stile L. C. J. How do you know he was there then Mr. Cook It is a remarkable time there is a Procession that they keep there on that day from the Sodality to the Church and I saw him go among the rest at the latter-end among the Rhetoricians L. C. J. What say you was he there on that day Mr. Hildesley went away Mr. Cook I do not remember that L. C. J. Do you remember Burnaby Mr. Cook I was there when Mr. Burnaby went away L. C. J. But when he came was Oates there Mr. Cook I cannot speak particularly to that Mr. Att. Gen. What was your place in the Colledg Mr. Sol. Gen. My Lord he is a Lay-man be sure Mr. Cook I was a Servant in the House Oates In what place do you serve Mr. Cook I was a Tayler Oates I do not remember him Mr. Cook But I remember you Mr. Sol. Gen. Swear Jo. Wright Esq which was done Mr. At. Gen. Do you remember Oates at St. Omers Mr. Wright Yes I do Mr. Att. Gen. When was it Mr. Wright The Winter before the notice of the Plot was Mr. Att. Gen. What year was it in Mr. Wright In the year 77. Mr. Att. Gen. What month in that year did he come thither Mr. Wright I cannot tell it was Winter-time Mr. Att. Gen. When did he go away Mr. Wright He went away in Summer I cannot tell just the time Mr. Att. Gen. Was he absent at any time from his coming in Winter to his going away in Summer Mr. Wright The Scholars said he was once at a place call'd Watton L. C. J. Come this says nothing to the purpose Mr. Sol. Gen. My Lord we leave it here L. C. J. What say you to it then Mr. Oates Oates Has Mr. Attorney done Mr. Att. Gen. Yes we have done for the present L. C. J. Then are you to make your defence Oates My Lord Here is an Indictment brought against me for Perjury and this Indictment sets forth That I should upon the 17th of December appear at the Old-Bailey and there swear That there was a Treasonable Consult of the Jesuits met at the White-horse-Tavern in the Strand and that this Treasonable Consult did divide it self into lesser Companies and Meetings and that I carried about a certain Resolution which the Jesuits came to concerning killing the King from Chamber to Chamber to be sign'd My Lord I have a great exception to make to this Indictment and that is my Lord as to the form For by your Lordships favour I think the Perjury is not well assign'd and according as I am advised I offer this to your Lordships consideration It says in the assignment of the Perjury Ubi revera in facto praedictus Titus Otes non praesens fuit ad aliquam Consultationem Jesuitarum apud le White-horse-Tavern praedict in le Strand in Com Midd ' praedict ' super vicesimum quartum diem April ' anno Dom ' Millicesimo L. C. J. How Millicesimo Oates My Lord it is Law Latine I suppose it may serve in a Court. L. C. J. No it is true Latine there Oates I cannot tell how to read it better L. C. J. I do believe that Oates It is written in such a hand I cannot read it but the substance of it is it says here That I did not carry any Resolution from Chamber to Chamber signand ' Now the Evidence charged upon me to be given is That I did not see it signat ' So that the assignment of the Perjury does not pursue the Oath as it is set forth for if it be signat ' in the Evidence that was given it ought to be signat ' in the Perjury that is assigned and I humbly crave the Opinion of your Lordship and the Court upon this point L. C. J. Look you Mr. Oates That you offer'd before and I gave this Answer which I must now repeat That now we are upon the Fact and this exception will be sav'd to you for its proper time if you be convicted It is not proper now but suppose there were that thing which you say is an Objection yet you must know that there are Two Perjuries that are assign'd the One is upon the first part of your Oath which was That
I must come to be called to an account for Perjury in my Testimony of that part of the Popish Plot with which the King and Kingdom four successive Parliaments all the Judges of the Land and three Juries were so well satisfied I shall therefore offer to your Lordship and the Juries consideration the unanimous Votes of three Houses of Commons I shall offer the Proceedings of the House of Lords that is the highest Judicature in the Kingdom I shall prove what I have open'd by the Testimony of several Noblemen that are here who will testifie this for me My Lord I shall prove that several attempts have been made to baffle this Testimony as that of the Murther of Sir Edmundbury Godfrey who took my Depositions the Contrivance of Paine Farewell and Thompson made in the year 81 or 82 I forget which I shall then produce Evidence that I was actually here in Town at the time in question and then upon the whole I shall submit it to your Lordship and the Jury But to prepare your Lordship and the Jury the better for my Evidence I would again urge the strangeness of this Prosecution and the hardship that is put upon me to be tryed for Perjury in an Evidence given six years ago and formerly very industriously though not succesfully endeavoured to be falsified by sixteen St. Omers Youths that were produced and examined before all the Judges in the Kingdom and that not only once at Whitebread's Trial but a second time at Langhorn's Trial in neither of which would the Jury believe them because of their Religion and Education and the persons under whom they were educated who were men of known Artifice Then my Lord I would this argue If that time my Evidence were true it must be true still for Truth is always the same and if it were then true and I can prove it to be true 't will be thought a hard thing without all doubt that this should be put upon me Then my Lord I would fain know from my Prosecutors Why this Indictment of Perjury has been deferred so long Why these Witnesses that come now to testifie this matter and could then have been brought did not come before to justifie at the Trials of these persons what they now say which might have sav'd their Lives if true and had been credited Then I shall offer to your Lordship what I desire You and the Jury would please to observe That though the King's Councel are now against me yet they are also against themselves for they were of Councel for the King in those Cases particularly Mr. Sollicitor at Langhorn's Trial Sir Robert Sawyer at Sir George Wakeman's Trial They were of Councel before for the truth of my Testimony they are now against it I only mention that and pass it over But this is not the first attempt that has been made to discredit the Testimony of the Popish Plot as I told you before Now can it be supposed that the love and desire of publick Justice can be the cause of this attempt to falsifie my Evidence after so many Trials in which it has been credited and confirmed Can any thing my Lord more plainly tend to destroy and subvert the methods of Justice to frighten all Witnesses from henceforth from ever appearing to discover any Conspiracies and does it not tend to expose and vilifie the known Understanding and Justice of the late King of ever Blessed Memory to arraign the Wisdom of His Privy-Council His Great and Noble Peers His Loyal Commons in three successive Parliaments His Twelve Judges and all those several Juries that were upon those Trials Had not those Juries sense had they not honesty had they no consciences And the Judges before whom those Conspirators were try'd were they men of no Justice nor Honour nor Integrity nor Conscience nor Understanding Shall those Juries be said to have drawn the innocent Blood of these men upon their own Heads and the Nation as if I were perjur'd it must be innocent Blood that was shed upon it L. C. J. No no that goes a great deal too far Mr. Oates The Jury have no share nor the Judges neither in that Blood which was shed by your Oath Mr. Justice Withens No That is your own most certainly and not theirs Oates But this I say makes it most plain The Evidence was then true and I hope I shall make it as evidently plain 't is as true now and I do not question but upon the Evidence I shall now give both Positive and Collateral the Jury will believe me and acquit me of this foul Accusation Pray my Lord be pleased to consider that when the Jury brought in Ireland guilty of the High-Treason of which he was accused and convicted him Pickering and Grove says my Lord Chief Justice Scroggs that then was to them Gentlemen you have done like very good Subjects and very good Christians that is like very good Protestants and now much good may do them with their Thirty Thousand Masses as I shall prove he did say Then I insist in the second place That Whitebread's Conviction does reinforce the Conviction of Ireland because of the attempt by the St. Omers Witnesses to have overthrown my Evidence But since I am attaqu'd again in the same kind by the violence of the Popish Interest and by the malice of my Popish Adversaries I am contented to stand the Test with all my heart And then to conclude all I shall shew the Court That 't is in vain for the Popish Party to expect and think to wipe their mouths with Solomon's Whore and say they have done no wickedness No I question not but thousands of Protestants in this Kingdom are fully satisfied and convinced of the Truth of the Popish Plot all and every part of it Now my Lord if you please to give me leave to proceed on in my Evidence I shall beg that these Records of Conviction may be read which are my first Proof of the Consult and I shall then bring Witnesses viva voce and shall make it appear that what I did swear at those Trials was true L. C. J. Not to intetrupt you in your Defence or the method you will take for it I would put you upon that which is proper for you to apply your self to because the question now is not Whether there was a Consult or Congregation of the Jesuits here upon the 24th of April 78 but the question that toucheth you is Whether you were present at any such Consult here in London the 24th of April 78 These Gentlemen some of them do say there was a Consult and others that they heard of it and believe there was such an one because it was usual to have a Triennal Congregation for some particular purposes But the question is Whether you have sufficient proof to prove your self to be here on the 24th of April 78 at which time it is agreed of all hands there was a Consult Oates But will your
Langhorn for I now speak of your Lordship in the third person Your several Crimes have been prov'd against you you have been fully heard and stand convicted of those Crimes you have been indicted for L. C. J. I believe I might say something to the same purpose as you have read now Oates I thank your Lordship for that acknowledgment L. C. J. Ay I 'll own any thing I did say Oates My Lord I have one passage more to urge and that was my Lord after the Jesuits had been convicted when the Jury brought in their Verdict and found Whitebread Fenwick Harcourt Gaven and Turner guilty your Lordship applying your self to the Jury said thus to them Gentlemen you of the Jury there has been a long Evidence given against the Prisoners at the Bar they were all indicted arraigned and tried for High-Treason depending upon several circumstances They can none of them say the Court refused to hear any thing they could say for themselves but upon a long Evidence and a patient hearing of the Defence they made they are found guilty and for any thing appears to us it is a just Verdict you have given L. C. J. I believe I might say something to that purpose too at that time and no doubt the Jury did as the Case then stood find an unexceptionable Verdict Oates There is another place my Lord that I would instance in for your Lordships Opinion of the Evidence of the Popish Plot and that is this Now my Lord I bring your Lordship as you were of Councel for the King at Mr. Colledge's Trial at Oxford the 17th of August 81 There you my now Lord Chief Justice directing your self to the Jury had this expression We come not here to trip up the heels of the Popish Plot by saying that any of them who suffer'd for it did die contrary to Law for if Mr. Dugdale was not a person fit to be believed or if the rest of the Judges who try'd Gaven were out in the Law then that man dy'd wrongfully for he had as much right to be try'd according to Law as any other person whatsoever This was your Lordships Opinion of the matter then and your Lordship as Councel for the King did there deliver the Law as well as Fact to the Jury If then they went against Law that would go to trip up the heels of the Popish Plot Mr. Justice Withens We are got into an endless Wood of sayings of people I know not where and when and when all is done 't is to no purpose Oates My Lord it is a part and a great part of my Defence to shew what credit has been given to the Evidence of the Popish Plot. L. C. J. Ay but what Councel says at the Bar or what Judges say in the Court of their Opinion is no Evidence of a Fact of which the Jury are Judges only Oates My Lord every Judge is upon his Oath and delivers his Judgment according to his Oath L. C. J. Not as to the Fact but only in points of Law so as to tell the Jury what the Law is if the Fact be so and so Oates My Lord it goes a great way with the Jury to have the Judges Opinion L. C. J. Mr. Oates deceive not your self all this you have insisted on hitherto has not been to the purpose nor is any sort of Evidence in this case and therefore do not run away with an opinion of this as Evidence a Judges Opinion is of value in points of Law that arise upon Facts found by Juries but are no Evidence of the Fact for Judges only do presume the Fact to be true as it is sound by the Jury and therefore say they Out of that Fact so found the point of Law arising is thus or thus Then in Case after a Jury has given a Verdict of the Fact a Judges Opinion of the Fact which may be perhaps contrary to the Verdict should be an Evidence as to that Fact that would be to overthrow and nullifie the Juries Verdict No that is not the Judges Province Surely you would not have a Judges private Opinion that Twelve men have found a Verdict against the Fact to be an Evidence as to that Fact No but admit the Fact to be so or so then the person convicted of the Fact ought to suffer so or so And by the same reason as this a Jury of honest Gentlemen here when I tell them here is a plain Fact either to convict you or to acquit you upon this Indictment are not bound to go by what I say in point of Fact but they are to go according to their own Oaths and according to the Evidence and Testimony of the Witnesses It is not my Opinion that is to weigh at all with them whether you are Guilty of this Perjury or are Innocent but the Evidence that is given here in Court Therefore what my Lord Chief Justice Scroggs said at any of those Trials or what I said or any other person that either was of Councel or a Judge on the Bench said as our Opinions is but our Opinions on the Fact as it occurred to our present apprehensions but is no Evidence nor binding to this Jury I must tell you there is no doubt but that those Juries did every one of them believe the Evidence you gave or they would not have convicted the Prisoners Do you think they would have found a Verdict against their own belief and being upon their Oaths to make true Deliverance between the King and the Prisoners have perjured Themselves to hang Others If they had so done they had committed Wilful Murther and the worst of Murthers too being under colour of the Process of Law but yet all this is no Evidence I do not discommend you for insinuating these things as introductive and preparative to what Evidence you have to offer but it is no Evidence one way or other Alack-aday how many times have we Causes here in Westminster-hall wherein we have Verdict against Verdict and yet no imputation to either of the Juries which might give different Verdicts upon different Grounds There was a notable Case lately of my Lady Ivies at this Bar We all thought upon the first Trial that she had as good a Title to the Land as could be all the Judges and the Councel went way I believe satisfied with the Juries Verdict for her But when the Cause came to be heard again we found all the Witnesses to prove her Title were guilty of notorious Porjury and the same persons which did believe before that she was in the Right and the Jury had done well when they heard the second Trial did believe she was in the wrong and accordingly the second Jury found it so and we believe that last Verdict to be good without any reflection on the Credit of the First Jury because the Evidence was as strong on her side then as it was afterwards against her In these Cases we give our Opinions
what you say and now I ask you upon your Oath when was the first time you saw Mr. Oates when he came in that disguise you speak of Butler I told you it was in May Sir Mr. Soll. Gen. How far in May consider well what you say Butler To the best of my remembrance it was the beginning of May. Mr. Soll. Gen. Do you think it was within a Week or the First Ten days of May Butler I cannot tell that as well as I remember it was the beginning of May. Mr. Soll. Gen. When you saw him first in May who else as you remember was by Butler Mrs. Mayo Mr. Soll. Gen. And no body else Butler Yes One Benjamin Turbet who is since dead Mr. Soll. Gen. But consider your Oath Friend once more and recollect your self do you swear positively Mrs. Mayo was by and did see him at the same time Butler I see her look out of the Window into the Yard and I believe she did see him Mr. Soll. Gen. Well then let us examine her Evidence and yours together and see how they agree Oates My Lord these are not questions tending to satisfy the Jury at all as to the point in question L. C. J. Are they not methinks they are whatsoever you think Oates After Six years time to ask such poor ignorant people such trifling questions L. C. J. Pray Sir be contented and let the Kings Council examine the Witnesses Oates My Lord he says I was here in May that 's enough L. C. J. Well Sir I know what he says Mr. Soll. Gen. And you shall hear Mr. Oates how your Witnesses agree L. C. J. Go on Mr. Sollicitor and do you sit still and be quiet Mr. Soll. Gen. Then my Lord I would ask him this question more the first time you saw Oates come to Sir Richard Barkers what habit pray you was he in Butler He was in a disguise Mr. Soll. Gen. Ay what disguise Butler He had a White Hat flapping over his Ears his Hair cut short close to his Ears and a grey short Coat Mr. Soll. Gen. Had he never a Periwig on Butler No his Hair was cut short to his Ears Mr. Hauses Was he in such a disguise that a Man might not ordinarily know him that had known him before Butler Truly my Lord I did not know him when he first came in till he spoke to me and asked me how do you John and then I recollected who he was that it was Mr. Oates Mr. Soll. Gen. Was he always in the same Habit when he came thither Butler The next time he came he had a Cinnamon coloured Suit and a long black Periwig that was curl'd down thus far and a black Hat with a green Ribbon and green Cuff-strings about his Wrists L. C. J. Did you ever see Oates dine there Butler Yes I did L. C. J. When was that Butler After my Master came home from Putney L. C. J. Who was there besides Butler One Sir William Thurrell and Madam Thurrell L. C. J. How often did he dine there Butler Several times L. C. J. Who else was there Butler My Master and his Daughter L. C. J. And who else Butler Mrs. Mayo L. C. J. What is become of your Masters Daughter Butler I beg your pardon for that my Lord. L. C. J. Where is she Man Butler She is at home I suppose L. C. J. What dost thou beg my pardon for then Butler My Lord I call to mind she did not dine with them L. C. J. Did she dine at any time with him there Butler Yes I remember several times but not then L. C. J. When did you see your Masters Daughter last Butler I have not seen her this Quarter of this Year L. C. J. Where is she now Butler At home at Putney my Lord I believe L. C. J. And she was several times there when he din'd there Butler Yes She was at home L. C. J. Did Mrs. Mayo see him at Dinner there Butler Yes I believe she did L. C. J. How often did he dine there about this time you speak of Butler Several times L. C. J. Do you think seven times Butler I do think he might have din'd there seven times L. C. J. Did he more than seven times do you think Butler I cannot number how many times it was L. C. J. Now come in Mrs. Mayo again Mrs. Mayo Here I am my Lord. L. C. J. Mrs. Mayo give me leave to ask you a question or two Mrs. Mayo Yes my Lord what you please L. C. J. You say if I do not mis-remember if I do I beg your pardon and you 'l correct me a week in May was the first time you saw Mr. Oates and that was at Sir Richard Barkers Mrs. Mayo I think it might be about the beginning of May. L. C. J. Had he been in the House before Mrs. Mayo Not at that time that I know of but as they told me L. C. J. Who told you Mrs. Mayo That Coach-man there John Butler and one Benjamin who liv'd in the House L. C. J. Then you did not see him the first time he came what say you Butler Butler She did see him out of the Window in the yard L. C. J. Well let that pass then come I 'le ask you another question upon your Oath how often have you seen him dine there Mrs. Mayo I saw him dine that time that I spoke of L. C. J. Did not he dine there above once Mrs. Mayo No he did not L. C. J. What say you Butler Butler He did dine there several times with them L. C. J. Then one of you two must be mistaken I am sure Oates My Lord if your Lordship would please to give me leave to speak I would set it right L. C. J. Good Sir let them set themselves right if they can we need none of your Instructions Oates My Lord I desire L. C. J. Why how now pray Sir be at quiet Mrs. Mayo pray what Habit had Oates when you saw him first Mrs. Mayo He was in a grey Hat and a grey Coat L. C. J. Was his hair short or long Mrs. Mayo He had on a kind of a short Wigg Mr. Soll. Gen. You are sure it was a Wigg Mrs. Mayo Yes a kind of a brown Perriwigg L. C. J. And he says his hair was cut short to his ears Oates These things are very lean stuff to perjure a Witness upon Mr. Soll. Gen. When he came the second time what Cloaths had he on Mrs. Mayo Afterwards he came in black Cloaths and a long Perriwig Mr. Hauses What coloured Perriwig was that a black or a white one Mrs. Mayo Not a black but a brown Mr. Soll. Gen. You say it was long Mrs. Mayo Longer than his other yet not very long neither L. C. J. Here are I know not how many Contradictions in these Witnesses Testimonies Oates Truly my Lord I do not find in the Examination of the St. Omers Witnesses you were so strict or bore
of Record in the House of Lords L. C. J. But that we are not to take notice of without the Record be brought in Evidence before us we must go according to the course of Law in all Cases Oates Then my Lord I must betake my self to another part of my defence and that is to prove the frequent attempts made to baffle the Discovery of this Popish Plot and to stifle the Murder of Sir Edmundbury Godfrey and to fling it upon a Protestant Peer L. C. J. But that is no Evidence neither Mr. Just Holloway Surely that is very Collateral Evidence L. C. J. Nay it is no Evidence at all in this Case we must not admit of any such Evidence to be given Oates Good my Lord if this had not been true which was sworn by Witnesses that had discovered the Plot why should these Men appear to suborn Witnesses and they have been Convicted of Subornation and endeavouring to baffle the Discovery particularly as to Justice Godfrey's Death L. C. J. Mr. Oates I must keep you to Evidence that is proper we are upon our Oaths to go according to Law and the Jury are upon their Oaths to Try this Cause according to their Evidence and we are bound to give them this advice in point of Law that nothing must weigh or have any consideration with them that you offer if it be not legal and proper Evidence if you can say and prove that any of the Witnesses that have been produc'd this day against you have been tamper'd with or that they have tamper'd with any of the former Evidence that is a good Evidence against them but it must not be by any means admitted that the time of the Court be taken up or the Jury enveigled by that which has not a natural tendency to the business before us Oates But if your Lordship please this Consult in April 78. was discovered to the House of Commons among the other parts of the Discovery of the Treasons of several Noble Men and Gentlemen now upon the whole discovery of the Plot I would desire that I might give in proof the Proceedings of the House of Commons L. C. J. No no you cannot Oates Pray my Lord is not the Journal of the House of Commons Evidence L. C. J. No we say it is not at all Oates Is that the Opinion of the whole Court my Lord L. C. J. Yes undoubtedly there is no question of it Oates Is any Record of the House of Lords Evidence L. C. J. Yes I tell you it is and that because it is a Record but there is a vast difference between the Records of the House of Lords and the Journals of the House of Commons Oates The Journals have been delivered in as Evidence before now L. C. J. I cannot tell what they have been but I am sure they ought not to be and whatever they have been elsewhere they cannot be here and I 'le tell you a plain reason for it because they have not so much power in the House of Commons as to give an Oath but the House of Peers is a Court of Record and therefore their Proceedings are Evidence as the Proceedings of the Kings Bench here or any other Court of Record are Oates Then my Lord if that part of my Evidence be over-rul'd before I come to summ up my Evidence I desire to offer this thing My Lord I can produce several Members of the House of Commons in the several Parliaments that can remember how they proceeded against the Lords in the Tower and the Popish Traitors upon my Discovery and what credit I had in the House of Commons Will that be Evidence pray my Lord L. C. J. No it will not if you will produce any one that you told this to before the publick Discovery that may be Evidence such as it is and is often allow'd but what the House of Commons did upon the Discovery that 's not any Evidence at all Oates Then my Lord suppose I can prove that I gave an Early and Timely account to any of the House of Lords of this Conspiracy and did acquaint them with the Consult in April as part of it I desire to know whether in producing any of those Lords I shall give that which is Evidence L. C. J. Call whom you will that you told any thing to that is a sort of Evidence I tell you Oates Then I call my Lord of Devonshire L. C. J. Here is my Lord of Devonshire Oates My Lord I beg your pardon for the trouble I put your Lordship to but your Lordship sees the necessity of it it is for the justification of the Truth to which I will give my Blood for a Seal if I be call'd to it L. C. J. My Lord of Devonshire your Lordship must be sworn which was done Oates Will your Lordship be pleased to acquaint the Court and the Jury your Lordship being at that time a Member of the Commons House what an account I gave there of this particular Consult to keep to that point that is here in question before the Court this day and with what credit I was received in all these Parliaments for my Credit and the Credit of the Parliament is now in question E. of Devonshire My Lord all I can say to it is this you Mr. Oates gave a long account of a Consult and Conspiracy among the Jesuits but I cannot remember any particular it is so long ago L. C. J. Every Body knows this you gave a long Narrative into the House of Commons and House of Lords too Oates Ay and it was a true one but my Lord of Devonshire I desire your Lordship would be pleased to give the Court and the Jury an account with what credit I was received in those Three Parliaments your Lordship sat as Member in E. of Devonshire I remember that the two Westminster Parliaments after the long Parliament were so satisfied with the Discovery that they passed a Vote in the House of Commons L. C. J. The Votes of the House of Commons are no Evidence at all Oates They show what opinion the Parliament was of L. C. J. Many Votes that have been made of late I hope will neither be Evidence for nor put in practice again E. of Devonshire My Lord it is well known to all the World the Vote I speak of L. C. J. Nay my Lord I speak not to your Lordship for we all know those Votes that I speak of were not according to your Lordships mind But we only say thus in General that because the House of Commons cannot give an Oath therefore what is done there is not an Evidence here or in any Court of Record Oates But my Lord that I must urge I do perceive that in the time of Parliament and during the Sitting of the House of Commons Votes have been brought in as Barrs to the Proceedings of Inferior Courts and this Court does not look upon it self as Superior to the Great Court of
Parliament and then if they may be brought L. C. J. Which they cannot be nor never were nor I am sure ought to be nor I hope never will be as long as there is any Justice in the Nation Oates But my Lord you will allow the Records of the House of Lords to be Evidence L. C. J. Yes I tell you I will and for that reason because they are Records out of a Court of Record an Order of Court Baron is no Evidence because it is no Court of Record but a Judgment of a Court Leet is Evidence because it is a Court of Record and there 's the difference Oates My Lord I call in the next place my Lord of Anglesey if he be in Court L. C. J. No he is not here Oates Pray will you give me leave to call my Lord Keeper then L. C. J. See in the Court of Chancery whether my Lord Keeper be there Cryer No my Lord he is not he is gone Oates He was Subpoena'd my Lord and I can have Affidavit made of it he was a material Witness for me L. C. J. I cannot help it he is not here Oates Pray call my Lord Chief Baron L. C. J. Go one of you into the Exchequer and see if my Lord Chief Baron be there and tell him Mr. Oates calls for him as a Witness Oates And Mr. Justice Levins Cryer The Courts are both up and they are all gone Oates They were subpoena'd I am sure to be here well go and see whether they are there or no. L. C. J. In the mean time do you call some other Witnesses Oates I call my Lord Chief Justice Jones L. C. J. The Cryer is gone to look for the Judges Oates Then I call my Lord of Clare L. C. J. Here is my Lord of Clare E. of Clare My Lord I can remember nothing it is so long time ago L. C. J. My Lord of Clare says he can remember nothing Oates I only call my Lord of Clare to ask him one question which I hope his Lordship will remember L. C. J. Swear my Lord of Clare which was done well what is it you ask my Lord Oates My Lord of Clare the question I would ask your Lordship is with what credit I was received in the House of Lords upon my Discovery and that you will to the best of your memory give my Lord and the Jury an account how the House of Peers proceeded upon my Evidence E. of Clare Truly my Lord I cannot give any account it is of so long standing Oates It is a great while ago my Lord and therefore it is hard measure that I must be brought to this Tryal so long after L. C. J. If it be a long time we cannot help it we cannot force People to prosecute sooner than they will do Oates I desire Mr. Baron Gregory may be called L. C. J. He is not here but see and call my Brother Gregory I hear they are all together in the Treasury Oates Then I call Mr. Williams that was Speaker in the House of Commons L. C. J. Here is Mr. Williams he was sworn Oates I desire Mr. Williams because you were then Speaker of the Commons House of Parliament you would be pleased to tell what you remember concerning the credit I received in that Parliament in which you were Speaker upon the Discovery I made of the Popish Plot and particularly as to the Consult of Jesuits to kill the late King in the month of April 78. Mr. Williams My Lord my Memory is never very good but especially in a case that is at such a distance of time and which consists of so many Particulars as this I mean Mr. Oates Discovery But this my Lord I do remember he was examin'd at the Bar of the House of Commons and gave a long account but it is more than any man can do to tell every Particular that is said in that House L. C. J. Was he upon his Oath Mr. Williams at the Bar of the House of Commons Mr. Williams My Lord he was as other men are that are examin'd in the House of Commons L. C. J. We all know it could not be upon Oath they have not Power to give an Oath Mr. Williams What Reputation he was of I cannot say so well as what their Proceedings did testifie L. C. J. Nor in case they did believe him never so much is it any thing to this question which is whether he swore true or false at Ireland's Tryal Mr. Wiliams My Lord when a Person is brought to the Barr there to be a Witness in any Cause every body is silent and the Witness is heard what he has to say and so was Mr. Oates when he had done he withdrew but what the Opinion of the House was upon it I must submit to their Votes and Resolutions L. C. J. Which you know Mr. Williams are no Evidence Mr. Williams That I must submit to the Court. Oates I desire my Lord of Clare would be pleased to tell if he remembers what Credit the House of Lords gave me upon my Discovery E. of Clare My Lord I do not well hear Mr. Oates question Oates My Lord my question is this when I was brought to the Bar of the Lords House whether I did not receive the thanks of the Lords House for my Discovery E. of Clare Truly Sir at the beginning of the Discovery of the Popish Plot I was not in Town nor in the House L. C. J. But now Mr. Oates I hope you are satisfied by the answer that is given by your own Witness that what is done in the House of Commons is no Evidence and I would have you remember that is the Reason of it because they are no Court of Record and because they cannot so much as give an Oath Oates My Lord I see my Lord of Huntingdon is here and tho I did not Subpoena his Lordship nor design'd to have troubled him yet being here I desire his Lordship would give the Court an account what Credit I had in the House of Lords upon my Discovery L. C. J. Swear my Lord of Huntingdon which was done E. of Huntingdon I do believe my Lord Mr. Oates Discovery found a good reception in the House of Lords but it was grounded upon the opinion that what he said was true and that he was an honest man for so the House then accounted him to be and upon this it was their Lordships gave credit to his Testimony and indeed had the matter been true it was of high Importance to have it thorougly examined But since that time it being apparent there were so many and great Contradictions Falsities and Perjuries in his Evidence upon which so much innocent blood hath been shed I believe a great many Persons who were concerned in the Trials of those unfortunate men are heartily afflicted and sorry for their share in it And I do believe most of the House of Peers have altered their opinion as to this
been call'd but he is not here Oates Call my Lord of Stamford Crier He is not here Oates Call Sir Francis Winnington Crier He is not here Oates Call Silas Titus Esq Crier He is not here Oates Call Sir George Treby Crier He is not here Oates Call Sir Francis Pemberton These have been all Subpoena'd Crier He is not here Oates Is my Lord Bishop of London L. C. J. Here is my Lord Bishop of London pray swear my Lord Bishop of London which was done Oates I beg your Lordship if you can would give an account of your remembrance in this matter your Lordship was often in Committees of the House of Peers about this business and from first to last you were in the Committee for further Examination of the Popish Plot And you were not only of the Committee but you also sate as a Baron in the House I humbly beg your Lordship would please to tell as far as you can charge your Memory what Reputation I had in the House of Lords where I was upon my Oath and in particular whether your Lordship remembers that I received the thanks of the House for the Service I had done for the King and Kingdom in the Discovery Mr. J. Holloway It is a long question my Lord. L. B. of London It is so my Lord but my answer will be very short for it is a very little I can remember after so great a distance of time and the transactions have been publick nor can I acquaint the Court with any thing but what is known already and that is this I remember that the Plot was discovered by him and his discovery was receiv'd as Evidence at the Barr of the House of Lords and believ'd and the thanks of the House were given him at that time for it L. C. J. There 's Sir George Treby What do you ask him but first let him be sworn which was done Oates Pray be pleas'd to ask Sir George Treby who was Chair-man of the Committee of Secrecy and was manager in the Trial of the Lord Viscount Stafford that he will be pleas'd to tell what Credit I had in both Houses upon that Trial. L. C. J. I told you before you must urge nothing of that Trial unless you have the Record-here Oates Then my Lord I desire Sir George may give an account what he knows of the correspondencies between Mr. Coleman and the See of Rome L. C. J. No that will not be any Evidence at all in this case for that is not at all here in question Oates Then my Lord I desire Sir George Treby may speak what he knows of my Credit in the House of Commons L. C. J. Ah! What says he to that Sir George Treby My Lord I can answer for nothing but my own Judgment I cannot tell what Credit he had with any particular Member of the House of Commons I do remember indeed he was there several times at the Barr but not upon Oath but as others usually are there and concerning the discovery there was a Vote all the Kingdom knows of that they were satisfied there was a Plot but whether that Vote was grounded altogether upon his Evidence or how far upon his Evidence I cannot tell nor what any Man thought of it besides my self Oates I desire Mr. Serj. Pemberton might be call'd again Crier He is not here Oates Then pray call Sir William Dolben Crier He is not here neither Oates Then I call Sir Edward Atkins Crier He is not here Oates Call Mr. Richard White Crier He is not here Oates My Lord these were all Subpoena'd but they will not come they are frighted away L. C. J. We know nothing of that they may come if they will Oates Call Mr. Thomas Cox Crier He is not here but here is Mr. White Oates I pray he may be sworn which was done I desire to know of him whether he were not a Jury man upon the Trials of Ireland and Whitebread Mr. White No I was not Oates Then I am mistaken I beg your pardon for this trouble L. C. J. Well there 's my Brother Dolben come now What say you to him Swear my Brother Dolben which was done Oates May it please you Sir William Dolben you sate as a Judge upon the Trials of Mr. Ireland Mr. Whitebread and Mr. Langhorn and I call you Sir William Dolben to give an account to my Lord and the Jury what Credit my Evidence had at those Tryals and how the Jury was satisfied with it L. C. J. There is the Verdict man that finds the Persons you speak of Guilty Oates If that be Evidence enough I am satisfied my Lord. L. C. J. Is not that better than his Opinion to show how the Jury was satisfied Ah! certainly better than the Opinion of all the twelve Judges for that point they would not have Convicted them except they had been satisfied with the Evidence Sir William Dolben Have you done with me Sir Oates I have Sir L. C. J. Have you call'd all your Witnesses or will you call any more Oates No my Lord I will call no more at present Mr. Att. Gen. Then my Lord wee 'l go on with another part of our Evidence Gentlemen you see Dr. Oates to support his Credit has given two sorts of Evidence the one is some Records of Tryals at the Old-Bayly wherein he had the good hap to be believ'd the other is several noble Persons and other Gentlemen as to the Credit he has had given to hiâ— Evidence before What they have said I shall not meddle with at all at this time but leave the Observations that are to be made thereupon till we come to summ up the Evidence for the King But as to the first part of his Evidence that is as to the Records produced and the Verdicts therein given and the Opinions of the Judges we have this to say in point of Evidence as an answer 1. We shall produce to you several Records wherein he has not been believ'd as that of Sir George Wakeman and my Lord Castlemain and not only so but we shall actually prove that he was perjur'd in them that what he swore against them was utterly false and you will hear this was not the first time that he had sworn false for â—n an Accusation that he gave at a Tryal at Hastings we shall prove he swore Buggery upon a Person which was prov'd false Oates Can you produce any such Record Mr. Attorney Mr. Att. Gen. Yes we shall L. C. J. Do not interrupt the Kings Council let them go on you shall be heard quietly in your time Mr. Hanses Nay Mr. Oates need not be so hasty to ask for the Records by degrees we shall produce Records enough against him Mr. Att. Gen. We shall prove also by the Journals of the Lords House that he did forswear himself for after he had there made a long Narrative of the Plot being askt whether he had any more to accuse than those Persons that
he had nam'd and this upon his Oath he did there swear that he had no more Persons to accuse Oates That were Members of that House it was L. C. J. Sir you must be quiet till they have done Mr. Att. Gen. But soon after he bethought himself and accuses the Queen and His Royal Highness the Duke our now present Sovereign of being in the Plot. Oates What Plot did I accuse them of L. C. J. Nay you must sit down and be quiet how now will you not let the Kings Council speak you were heard quietly and so shall they be too Oates Well my Lord I will be quiet Mr. Att Gen. These things my Lord will show of what Credit he was of at that time Another thing we say to these Records is this There were two other Witnesses Mr. Clay and Mr. Smith besides those that were now produced which were the home Witnesses that did positively swear that in April and May 78. Oates was here in Town he did then indeed make use of those other canting Witnesses for I cannot call them any otherwise that beat so about the Bush and speak of uncertainties and contradict one another but those that I name Clay and Smith were home Witnesses and there lay the Credit of his being in Town when the Witnesses which came from St. Omers say he was beyond Sea Oates My Lord I beg I may ask one thing whether my Lord Bishop of London be there still L. C. J. No my Lord of London is gone Oates I am sorry for it because he could have given an account of this Smith for he knows him L. C. J. I cannot help it you should have desir'd him to stay while he was here go on Mr. Attorney Mr. Att. Gen. I will my Lord and this which I am going to say as an answer to his Evidence which will give a full answer to that other Objection which he made which was what was the Reason when he had given such an Evidence so long ago it should be delayed so long e're it was prosecuted I 'le give your Lordship a Reason and a satisfactory one till those Discoveries were made that have lately been made The Evidence these Witnesses gave carried a probability of truth in it and Sir Richard Barker himself added his Testimony to it tho he does not think fit now to come and confirm it I say hitherto it had some semblance of truth and so did ballance the other Testimony of them that came from St. Omers But when we had discover'd that it could be testified by twenty Persons that had not been at any of the former Tryals that he was certainly all that time at St. Omers and when we had discover'd the Tampering and Practices of Mr. Oates in Suborning these Witnesses to swear as corruptly as he swore at first which we shall show you palpably to be true that he did so that gave us encouragement to go on to make enquiry into the matter but this was not discover'd till half a year ago or thereabouts Now as to one of those Witnesses that is Mr. Clay the case stands thus indeed I expected he would have brought the same Witnesses he did then for I presume they are all about Town but he has not thought fit to do that This Clay was then a Priest and a Prisoner in the Gate-house for that very reason as being accused for being a Romish Priest while he was there a Prisoner Mr. Oates comes and threatens him and sollicits him to swear that he was here in Town in May 78. that he might be provided with proof against what the Boys of St. Omers as he call'd them would come to testifie and threaten'd him if he did not he would hang him for he could swear him to be a Priest and this was about three or four days before the Tryal of the Five Jesuits At length they came to a Bargain and Agreement as you will hear that he should come and swear this when Mr. Oates cannot pretend that the Evidence of Clay was known at all by any of the Committees that were concern'd in the management of his Discovery or that he was so much as though of for a Witness But we shall prove how it came to pass and I believe if Mr. Oates would call him now as I do not question he knows where to have him Clay would not be so hardy now as to affirm his former Testimony Then as for Mr. Smith his Case stands thus Mr. Oates had sworn him into the Plot as you will find in his Narrative that he gave in upon Oath which is upon Record and enter'd in the Journals of the Lords House He was a School-Master in Islington and Oates swears High Treason against him and thereupon Warrants went out to take this Smith and Mr. Oates was very violent in the pursuit of him but two or three days before the Tryal and then when all these Witnesses from St. Omers were come as he knew very well he was in some doubt his design would have fail'd and then does he prevail with Smith to become a Witness for him And 't is evident he did tamper with him from that which was done by him at that time For now he gives him under his hand to shew the Impudence as well as Villany of the man as it has been evident enough in all his carriage a Paper that should give him Authority to go free from all Process and Arrests upon any Warrants and this Protection under Mr. Oates hand is directed to all the Kings Officers thereby commanding them to take notice that this Mr. Smith whom before he had accus'd of being in the Plot was an honest man and employed in great Service for the King at that time This Paper when produc'd will show the time when it was made and then it will appear that two days after Smith comes and Swears that he din'd with him the first Monday in May in 78. This was what Smith swore then and upon my mentioning of this Practice if he have any shame in him it must put him in some confusion for we are prepar'd to prove by undeniable Testimony that Mr. Oates did not dine with this Mr. Smith that day we shall prove it by the whole Family but the first time ever Mr. Oates came there was in July after when he came into England from St. Omers which these Witnesses say was the latter end of June Then it was that he was with Mr. Smith and came to his House and not before And we shall prove by several Witnesses that upon the questions being asked of Mr. Smith how he came to testifie such a thing his answer was I must have died for it if I had not don 't 't was only a mistake in point of time But he threatned me and so did some others too that he would have me hang'd for being in the Plot if I did not comply with him and swear this for him My Lord I shall offer
this Evidence that I have open'd and then I hope we shall satisfie the Jury and all that hear this Tryal that he is one of the most notorious Villains that liv'd upon the Earth to be sure that ever was known in this Kingdom Mr. Soll. Gen. First my Lord wee 'l produce our Records where is the Record of Sir George Wakeman Mr. Swift This is the Record of Sir George Wakeman and this is a true Copy I examin'd it Mr. Soll. Gen. Pray Sir Samuel Astry read a word or two of it C. Crown Here is an Indictment against Sir George Wakeman for High Treason he pleaded not Guilty and here is an Acquittal by the Jury Mr. Att. Gen. He being acquitted I desire he may be sworn which was done Mr. Soll. Gen. Pray Sir George Wakeman was Mr. Oates sworn against you at the Tryal S. G. Wakeman Yes Mr. Sollicitor he was Mr. Soll. Gen. Do you remember what he swore against you at that Tryal S. G. Wakeman Yes I do Sir Mr. Soll. Gen. Was that true that he swore by the Oath you have taken Oates Is that a fair question I desire the opinion of the Court. L. C. J. Ah! Why not Oates He was legally accus'd he cannot swear himself off L.C. J. But he is legally acquitted to we have a Record for that here Oates Ah! My Lord he was acquitted it 's well known how Mr. Soll. Gen. Come Sir was that he swore against you at your Trial true Sir G. Wakeman 'T was false L. C. J. What do you say Sir Sir G. Wakeman 'T was false upon my Oath my Lord. Mr. Soll. Gen. What particulars did he swear against you Mr. Pollexfen Ah! Pray tell the particulars as near as you can what he swore against you Sir G. Wakeman My Lord if your Lordship please I will give a little account what he swore against me before the King and Council Mr. Soll. Gen. That will not do Sir George Wakeman we do not ask you that L. C. J. No it must be only the Evidence that was given upon this Acquittal which is the Record here produc'd before us what did he swear against you then Sir G. Wakeman He swore at that Trial as near as I can remember that I undertook for a certain Summ of Money 15000 l. as I think it was to poyson the King and I was to do it by the means of the Queen I was to provide this Poyson by for her and she was to give it to the King This he swore at my Trial which God forbid it should be true nothing can be more false L. C. J. I ask you by the Oath you have taken you are now quitted and so in no danger and being upon your Oath ought to speak the truth without malice or ill will to him that did accuse you was that he swore true or false Sir G. Wakeman False false upon my Oath I speak it without any malice against the Man in the World Mr. Att. Gen. Then swear my Lord Castlemain which was done Sir G. Wakeman My Lord I 'le be bound to make it appear that all he swore against me was false Mr. Att. Gen. And so was it he swore against my Lord Castlemain and others that were acquitted at the same time with Sir George Wakeman Mr. Soll. Gen. First read the Record of my Lord Castlemain's Acquittal C. Crown Here is the very Record it self It was in this Court my Lord Castlemain was Indicted of High Treason and Tried and Acquitted Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord Castlemain pray what did Oates swear against you at your Trial and pray tell the Court whether that was true or false E. of Castlemain My Lord as near as I remember Mr. Oates did swear at my Trial that he met me in Lincolns-Inn-fields and that he went with me somewhere to Mr. Fenwicks Chamber in Dukes-street in Covent-garden where he said I did talk a great deal of Treason and a great discourse of that kind he said there was and he swore that I was in several Cabals in relation to the Kings death I was afterwards acquitted by the Jury that Tri'd me as appears by the Record and here I do declare as in the presence of God and with all the Imprecations of divine vengeance to fall upon me if I speak any thing but the truth that not only that which he swore was false but that I never had any thoughts in my heart much less did ever declare in my words of any injury or hurt against the late King And besides that I never saw the face of Oates in my life till after I was put in Prison upon his accusation of me Oates My Lord I desire to know what Religion that Noble Lord is of E. of Castlemain I am a Roman Catholick my Lord. L. C. J. We all know what Religion my Lord is of you need not ask that question Oates That 's not the point my Lord I must have declar'd in Evidence L. C. J. I wonder to see any Man that has the face of a Man carry it at this rate when he hears such an Evidence brought in against him Oates I wonder that Mr. Attorney will offer to bring this Evidence Men that must have malice against me L. C. J. Hold your Tongue you are a shame to Mankind Oates No my Lord I am neither a shame to my self or Mankind what I have sworn is true and I will stand by it to my last breath and seal it if occasion be with my Blood L. C. J. 'T were pitty but that it were to be done by thy Blood Oates Ah! Ah! my Lord I know why all this is and so may the World very easily too L. C. J. Such impudence and impiety was never known in any Christian Nation Oates But this will not do the work to make the Plot to be disbelieved things are not to be done by great noises I will stand by the truth L. C. J. Can you think to out-face such Evidence as this with your Impudence Oates But I hope you 'l give me leave to make my defence L. C. J. Then carry your self as becomes you in the Court. Oates My Lord I will do so L. C. J. If you do not we know how to make you do it you shall not think to Domineer here Oates My Lord I hope I do behave my self as I ought L. C. J. No You do not Oates Ill Language may provoke any Mans Passion my Lord. L. C. J. Keep your self within bounds and you shall be heard but we 'll suffer none of your Extravagancies Oates My Lord If I had been aware of this I could have produc'd Evidence that would have supported my Testimony in these matters L. C. J. Go on with your Proofs Mr. Attorney Mr. Attorney We will do so my Lord. E. of Castlemain Have you done with me Sir L. C. J. Have you any other questions to ask my Lord Castlemain Mr. Att. Gen. No my Lord. L. C. J. Then your Lordship may fit down
again where you were Mr. Att. Gen. Now my Lord we shall show the Lords Journal where it is Recorded that he swore he could accuse no body else but those that he nam'd and then we shall give an account that soon after he accus'd our present Soveraign and the Queen Dowager Mr. Soll. Gen. Where is the Clerk of the Parliament Mr. Swift Here he is Mr. Walker Mr. Att. Gen. Swear him which was done Mr. Soll. Gen. Mr. Walker is that the Journal of the House of Lords Mr. Walker Yes my Lord it is Mr. Sol. Gen. Deliver it in to the Clerk and let him read it L. C. J. Then you must direct to the time or else it will be to no purpose Mr. Swift Sir Samuel Astry pray turn to Friday the 29th of November 78. C. of Crown Reads Die veneris decimo nono Novembris 1678. Titus Oates being call'd in at the Barr desired to be heard a few words before he was sworn L. C. J. Mr. Attorney I doubt this will not be Evidence it is only a Paper of what he laid taken before the Lords but now whether that was upon Oath or no is the question nay it appears it was not upon Oath but says it was before he was sworn Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord I desire it may be read all out C. Crown Reads Titus Oates being call'd in at the Barr desir'd he might be heard a few words before he was sworn to speak to the main business which being granted to him he complain'd of the restraint he is under and being debarr'd of the liberty of his Friends coming to him and of conversing with any body in private and that no English-man ought to be restrain'd unless accus'd by one or more Witnesses and pray'd that the restraint might be taken off that he might be enabled to give his Evidence more cheerfully and that the House would be pleas'd to address to the King for that purpose and that his pardon may be renewed because he is under misprision of Treason to which the Lord Chancellour told him that the House would take his condition into consideration and then being sworn he was told by Lord Chancellour that the Lords have received an Address from the House of Commons in part upon Evidence by him given there and that the House expects he should give an account what that is which has begot such astonishment in the House of Commons as is expressed in the Address upon which Titus Oates said that in July last he saw a Letter from Sir George Wakeman L. C. J. Is this Evidence Mr. Attorney Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord the use we make of it is to prove that he did accuse the Queen L. C. J. What is the accusation of the Queen to this purpose Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord we say he had sworn several days before that he had no other persons to accuse L. C. J. You should produce that first that he swore so Mr. Att Gen. My Lord we should so I think and I thought it had been so done L. C. J. This is no Evidence for it is not upon Oath it does not say so Mr. Att. Gen. Yes it does my Lord but we will go on in order L. C. J. Come then let us see what was sworn about his having no more Persons to accuse Mr. Att. Gen. Pray Sir Samuel Astry look the 30th of October 78. C. of Crown Read Die Mercurii 30. Octobris 1678. Titus Oates being call'd in was sworn at the Barr and requir'd to answer to what he is now call'd in for concerning his discourse with the Lord Annesly last night about the Duke of York L. C. J. I doubt this will not be Evidence neither for we are now speaking only about what shall be Evidence We are not now medling with the methods of the House in their Examination of Witnesses but what is Evidence here suppose an Oath be administred to me for a particular purpose in the House of Lords that I shall answer to what is asked me concerning a discourse that I had with a third person Mr. Att. Gen. Pray Sir Sam. Astry look the next day for there my Lord he is examin'd upon the general Sir Sam. Astry Reads Die Jovis 31 of Octobris 1678. Mr. Att. Gen. But first read the latter end of the former days Proceedings beginning at those words upon consideration C. Crown Reads Upon consideration of what Titus Oates had said he was call'd in again and told by the Lord Chancellour that the House has directed he shall be heard again to morrow at Nine a Clock and the Lords do expect that by the Oath he hath now taken he should go thorow with what he hath to say and therefore he should prepare himself to deliver the whole truth of what he knows concerning the design against the Kings Person and the Government of this Kingdom L. C. J. But still Mr. Attorney we are but where we were for supposing upon my Examination upon Oath given me in the House of Lords to a particular purpose That my Lord Chancellor should tell me here my Lords intend to morrow that you by vertue of the Oath now given you should come and give them satisfaction as to other questions I doubt that would not be Evidence in Westminster-hall let us not stretch any thing further than it should be upon any account whatsoever for suppose I give you an Oath to make true answer to such questions as I shall ask you concerning what was said at the Sessions-house at such a Trial and then I come after and ask you upon the Oath you have taken what do you say concerning such a business 7 Years ago would that be Evidence Mr. Att. Gen. With submission my Lord if a Man be told he is upon his Oath to say all he knows of such a design what he says upon that Oath is Evidence L. C. J. You say very true Mr. Attorney if I give him a general Oath but what he says concerning any other matter than that particular thing which he was sworn to give an account of can never be Evidence Mr. Soll. Gen. Truly my Lord I think we need not labour in such a thing as this is L. C. J. Truly Mr. Sollicitour I think it is no Evidence at all if you can prove he was sworn to his whole Narrative and can bring any thing out of that You say something M. Att. Gen. We desire that my Lord of Berkley may be sworn which was done L. C. J. What do you ask him Mr. Att. G. Pray my Lord will you give the Court and the Jury an account whether M. Oates was not sworn to his Narrative and deliver'd in his Evidence at your Lordships Barr upon Oath L. C. J. My Lord of Berkley let me ask you this question was every thing that he gave an account of at the Barr of the Lords House given in upon Oath E. of Berkley I cannot remember that my Lord. L. C. J. It is impossible
was done Mr. Soll. Gen. 'Pray' tell what Davenport told you and when Mr. He came and told me the next day in the Prison where I was then what Mr. Oates and Sir William Waller had been tampering with Clay about to make him swear for Mr. Oates L. C. Justice What were the words he told you they said to him Mr. It was That he must swear That Mr. Oates dined at Mr. Howard's house such a day of the month and Mr. Clay did say he knew nothing of the matter but then Sir William Waller and Mr. Oates did reply to him again here 's your Choice if you will not swear this we will try you for a Priest and hang you and so Clay agreed if he might have his money restored that was taken from him he had been a Rogue before and did not know what he might do Oates Is this Evidence my Lord L. C. Justice Yes doubtless very good Evidence Oates 'T is only upon heresay that he speaks L. C. Justice But that establishes the other man's Testimony this being told the very next morning for he would not conceal it it seems Mr. Att. Gen. Now that Clay was sworn at the Trial you admit Mr. Oates Oates Yes I do he was so Mr. Att. Gen. Then I think here 's a plain proof of a Subornation L. C. Justice You must observe how they apply this Evidence They say You are an ill man not only as to swearing false your self but as to suborning others to swear more than they knew and particularly as to this Clay that you and Sir William Waller did threaten him you would hang him up for a Priest if he would not swear as you would have him and by your Threatnings he was prevailed with to swear Oates Is Mr. Clay in Court my Lord L. C. Justice Nay I cannot tell where he is Mr. Att. Gen. He was your witness Mr. Oates we expected you would have brought him Oates I cannot tell where to find him my Lord now truly Mr. Att. Gen. Call Mr. Howard Cryer Here he is Sir he is sworn L. C. Justice Mr. Aâ—torney you have not proved what he swore Mr. Att. Gen. We are now about it my Lord. Mr. Howard 'pray' were you at the Trial of the five Jesuits or at Langhorn's when Clay was sworn as a witness for Dr. Oates Mr. Howard Yes I was at Langhorn's Trial my Lord. Mr. Att. Gen. What was the Effect of his Testimony there Mr. Howard He did swear That he was with me and Mr. Oates at dinner at my House in May in the year 77. Mr. Att. Gen. 77 did he say or 78 Mr. Howard Stay I will look upon my Notes I took at that time L. C. Justice Ay do so to refresh your memory Mr. Howard Mr. Howard It was May 78 my Lord. Mr. Soll. Gen. 'Pray' thus Sir Was he then at your house with Oates Mr. Howard No he was not there in May Mr. Clay was with me and Mr. Oates both together in July 78. after the fourth day of July Mr. Att. Gen. That is after the time he came to London from St. Omers L. C. Justice You say very well have you any more witnesses Mr. Soll. Gen. My Lord we must desire that the 28th Article of Mr. Oates's Narrative may be read O. Grown Reads That in order to this Command on April 24.78 Father Warren Rector of Leidge Sir Thomas Preston Baronet Father Marsh Rector of Gaunt and Father Williams Rector of Watton and Master of the Novices Sir John Warner Baronet Richard Ashby Rector of the English Seminary at St. Omers being sick of the Gout could not go But out of the said Seminary went Sir Robert Bret Baronet Father Pool Edward Nevile There were in all with the Deponent nine or ien who met in London in Consult with Thomas Whitebread Father Harcourt Senior and Father Harcourt Junior John Fenwick Basil Langworth William Morgan John Keimes Father Lovel Father Ireland Father Blundel Richard Strange Father Mico Father Grey and others to the Number of fifty Jesuits met at the White-Horse-Tavern in the Strand where they plotted their Designs for the Society and ordered Father John Carey who was also there to go Procurator for Rome at which Consult thus held in the Month of May the Deponent was present to attend the Consultors and deliver their Concernes from Company to Company and then a little after they left the White-Horse-Tavern and divided themselves into several Clubs and Companies some met at Mr. Saunders House in Wild Street others at Mr. Fenwick 's at Aireses his House in Drury Lane others at Mr. Ireland 's in Russel Street near Covent-Garden and in other places All which though in several Companies five or six in a Company did contrive the death of the King and in order to which there were Papers sent from Company to Company which the Deponent did carry cortaining their opinions of the timing their Business and the manner how it was to be done and within three or four days after the Deponent went to St. Omers with the Fathers that came from the other side of the water Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord we produce this to overthrow their Witnesses That speak of his being here a week in May. Now Mr. Oates in this Narrative says That the Consult ended the twenty fourth of April and that three or four days after he returned back to St. Omers L. C. Justice 'Pray' read that over again where the names are for the Witnesses for the King swear That Mr. Williams came over from St. Omers but he here says he did not I think It was read again L. C. Justice I thought it had been otherwise 'T is darkly penn'd Mr. Att. Gen. My Lord I my self heard him declare in many Trials here and at the Old Baily That all was finished in that day and he went away in a few days Oates Mr. Attorney you are mistaken For if you please my Lord the Consult was not dissolved in six or eight days though they were not sitting or acting every day Mr. Att. Gen. 'T is not a difference of six or eight days that is contended for but it is Either Mr Oates or his Witnesses do not swear true If it were as Mr. Oates says That six or eight days were allow'd after the twenty fourth of April then it must be the fifth or sixth of May that he went to St. Omers and then his Witnesses that say he was here the Latter end of May can not swear true And our Witnesses say he was all April and May until the twenty third of June at St. Omers Oates My Lord Mr. Attorney does not apprehend the Evidence aright L. C. Justice Well you may make your Remarks by and by and set him right if you can Mr. Att. Gen. We have done our Evidence my Lord. L. C. Justice Have you any more Witnesses Mr. Oates Oates No my Lord I have not L. C. Justice Then you must conclude and say what you have to say to
the Jury Oates My Lord I have one thing more and that is A Copy of the Record out of the House of Lords It is in the Journal the twenty fifth of March seventy nine Mr. Walker My Lord I have not the Book here it was not spoke for Oates But do you know this hand Shewing him a Copy Mr. Walker Yes and I Believe it is a true Copy L. C. Justice Read it C. Crown Reads Tuesday the 25 of March 1679. Oates It is the last Clause in the Journal of that day C. Crown Reads Resolved Nemine Contradicente by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal and Commons in Parliament assembled That they do declare that they are fully satisfied by the Proofs they have heard That there now is and for divers years last past hath been a Horrid and Treasonable Plot and Conspirary contrived and carried on by those of the Popish Religion for the Murthering of his Majestie 's Sacred Person and for subverting the Protestant Religion and the Ancient and Established Government of this Kingdom Oates There is an Order to have that Vote printed and inserted before the Form of Prayer for the Fast 'Pray' Sir read the next Page Cl. Crown Reads Die Lunae 25. Oct. 1680. Vpon Report from the Lords Committees for examining matters relating to the discovery of the late Horrid Plot and Conspiracy That Captain Thomas Bickley hath lately vilified Dr. Titus Oates at a publick meeting at Chichester to the prejudice of his Majestie 's Evidence for the further discovery of the said Plot It is thereupon ordered by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament assembled That the Said Thomas Bickley be and is hereby required to appear before their Lordships in the Lord Privy-Seals Lodgings near the house of Peers on Wednesday the third day of November next at eight of the Clock in the forenoon And it is further ordered that Alderman Exon and Alderman William Bury of Chichester aforesaid who were then present at the said meeting do likewise attend their Lordships at the time aforesaid to give Evidence of what they know concerning this Matter L. C. Justice What of all this we know hereupon Bickley was turned out of Commission and now Bickley is in again But it seems as you had credit with some then so you had not with others Well have you done now all Mr. Att. Gen. Yes my Lord. Mr. Soll. Gen. If Mr. Oates will Summ up his Evidence then I will do the same for the King when he has done L. C. Justice Well what say you Mr. Oates Oates Now my Lord here is an Indictment preferr'd against me for Perjury and the Evidence they have given for the King is this 1. They have call'd Mr. Foster and he tells you that I was produced at the Sessions-house in the Old Baily where he was summon'd as a Jury man upon the Trial of Ireland and he says That when I was produc'd at the Sessions in the Old Baily as a Witness and sworn if I do remember Mr. Foster aright in what he says he did hear me swear That there was a Treasonable Consult of Jesuits upon the twenty fourth of April 78. at the White-Horse-Tavern in the Strand and he does further say That I said those Jesuits afterwards came to a Resolution to kill the King and that they separated themselves into lesser Clubs the Resolution being drawn up by one Mico and that I carryed it from Chamber to Chamber to be signed and did see it signed My Lord I did ask Mr. Foster Whether I in my Evidence called it a Consult or a Traiterous Consult Now my Lord 't is true I did call it a Traiterous Consult it is as true that I did swear there was such a Consult and it is as true that I did swear this Consult did divide it self into lesser Companies it is as true that I did say I did carry that Resolution about from Chamber to Chamber and saw them sign that Resolution for murdering the King I do not mean of this King but of the late King My Lord the Evidence I think I nor no honest man shall need to be asham'd of I am not ashamed to own that I repeated this Evidence several times nor that I gave that Evidence upon Oath for it is Truth my Lord and nothing but Truth and I resolve by the Grace of God to stand by it and confirm it with my Blood if there be occasion My Lord to Convict me of Perjury they have brought a parcel of St. Omers Witnesses and these do swear that which they would have sworn six years ago but then the Court thought them not fit to be sworn not only because the Law will not allow them but because of their Religion that can dispense with false Oaths if it were for a good Cause and that was the Remark my Lord C. Justice Scroggs then made of it I shall not insist much upon what they have sworn for that I suppose your Lordship and the Jury do very well Remember But I have five things to Object to their Evidence and I hope the Jury will take notice of my Objections and make their Remarks upon them for since you have heard the Evidence that is brought against me it will be necessary for your Lordship to weigh the nature of these Witnesses and the Value that the several Juries of London and Middlesex had for them 'T is true there are several brought here now that never were Witnesses before there are indeed other men but of the same Religion and the same Interest and therefore their Testimony must be of the same Value I think your Lordship will allow me that Therefore I Begin with their Religion and that I take notice to be a great Objection to their Evidence as I am advis'd by those that are Learned in the Law And I must appeal to the Court whether a Papist in Case of Religion may be believed and received as a good Witness L. C. Justice We must nor hear any of these Idle Expressions Mr. Just Withens Do you think you are come here to preach Mr. Oates L. C. Justice I 'll tell you a Papist except you 'll prove any Legal Objection against him is as good a Witness in a Court of Record as any other Person whatsoever Oates But if your Lordships I 'll tell you my Lord Cook 's practice was not to admit them as good Witnesses L. C. Justice Do not tell me of my Lord Cook 's practice the Law is otherwise keep to the Business that you have here in hand the Question before us Whether you were forsworn in Ireland's Trial or not Answer that if you can but you must not run out into Clamors and idle Extravagances Oates My Lord I demand it as my Right to be heard what I have to except against the witnesses L. C Justice I tell you you shall be heard when you speak properly But are you to determine what is Right or what is Wrong Oates I am to
he was charged with High Treason and committed to the Tower of London at several Sessions in the Old Baily and at Hicks's Hall they did move that they might have liberty to bring in an Indictment of Perjury against the witnesses which did accuse him of Treason but now the Court there over-ruled those Motions and would not suffer my Lord of Shaftsbury's Friends to bring Indidictments of Perjury against him because they would not have the King's Evidence Indicted of Perjury nor the Popish Plot called in question This is matter of Fact in the Old Baily L. C. Justice And this is all idle too Oates 'Pray' my Lord will you hear me L. C. Justice But 'pray' Sir will you hear me too I tell you this is nothing to the purpose neither Oates My Lord I desire to speak but these few words then as to my own Witnesses I have produced And the first is Cicely Mayo and my Lord though it be your Lordships pleasure not to have that good opinion of her as I think the poor woman does deserve yet I hope her Evidence will have it's due Weight and Consideration with your Lordship and the Jury she says she saw me in Town in the Month of May Now indeed she could not be positive what May it was but she said it was the May before the Popish Plot broke out that is before the Rumour of that Plot was spread abroad and she believes the Plot broke out in 78. But this she says positively she saw me in the Month of May here my Lord she comes to give this Evidence freely and voluntarily a man that is a Knave is a Knave for something either out of Malice or for Gain or Interest but she has no Reward given her nor can hope for any but in Love to Justice without any by-end or particular Interest she came here to testifie the truth about her seeing me in London in May 78. The next Witness is Mr. Butler he was then Sir Richard Barker's Coachman He lived some years with him as his Servant but he is now set up for himself and he says that when he was about his Masters Business in the Coach-yard and fitting the Coach for to fetch his Master home from Putney I came in and this was in the beginning of May in a disguise and he says he saw me a second time in another disguise Then comes a third Witness that I called and that is Page and he came into the Hall where the Patients use to wait for his Master and there he met me and spoke with me Then I called Walker the Minister but it happens his Memory is not so good now as it was heretofore and indeed I cannot tell how to blame him for 't is so long since that it is impossible for any body to remember the Circumstances of times and places that in some short time after the Fact might have been remembred with far greater Ease I expected Sir Richard Barker might have been here being Subpoened to Justifie the Evidence of these people and I did expect that Mr. Smith would have been examined but I perceived the Court tender of that point as knowing it would then easily have been seen upon which side it was that he was suborn'd that is to make such a Confession as Mr. Attorney would have hinted at L. C. Justice Have you a mind to examine him Mr. Oates with all my heart If you consent to it he shall be examined Mr. Just Withens If you will he shall be examined it was for your sake he was not Mr. Just Holloway It was to do you Right that he was refused to be sworn before Oates Good Mr. Justice Holloway you are very sharp upon me Mr. Just. Holloway No I am not sharp upon you I think the Court did you a great deal of Justice you have no reason to complain Oates But my Lord this I say The Evidence upon which I am now indicted of Perjury is the same which was delivered six years ago at the Old Baily at Whitebread's Trial first and then at Langhorn's Trial where were sixteen Witnesses then produced and heard against me But then my Lord what Credit did they receive at Whitebread and Langhorn's Trials Now if this Evidence that I gave was then to be beleived tho opposed by so many Witnesses what new objection does rise against it which was not then hinted and received an answer For as to all the Records that are brought out of the House of Lords they have not amounted to a Charge sufficient to diminish any mans Evidence in the world for as to the Narrative that is entred there in the Journal I think I and any man else that were concerned as I was may very well defend the truth of it and I do avow the truth of the Popish Plot and will stand by it as long as I have a day to live and I do not question but the Jury upon Consideration of those Protestant Witnesses that I have here brought against these Popish Seminaries will acquit me of this Perjury I leave it to your Lordship and the Jury to judge and I hope those passages of heat that have fallen from me in Court shall not make me fare at all the worse in your Judgement I have called some Noble Lords to testify for me but I find either the distance of time has wrought upon their memories or the difference of the season has chang'd their opinion so that now they disbelieve that which they did believe before and perhaps for as little Reason as L. C. Justice As they believed you at first Oates Yes truely my Lord for as little reason as they believed me at first For I cannot expect that a man who believes without a principal should not recant that belief without a reason L. C. Justice What do you mean by that Oates I name no body L. C. Justice But the Nobility that are here and that have been Witnesses in this Cause are all persons of that Honour that the Court is bound in Justice to take notice of and vindicate them from your scandalous Reflections but only I think that a Slander from your Mouth is very little Scandal Oates Nor from some bodies else neither L. C. Justice But Sir you must be taught better manners Oates I find my Lord I am not to be heard in this Cause with Patience L. C. Justice I think you do not deserve to be heard at all Oates I cannot tell how to help it if you will not hear me L. C Justice Can't you say what you have to say for your self without Reflections and running out into such Extravagancies Oates My Lord you will suffer me to offer nothing that is Material for my Defence Mr. Just. Walcot Do you think it decent for this Court to suffer persons of Honour that by your own desire were sworn to give Testimony in this Cause should lie under the Reproach of your Tongue Oates Good Mr. Justice Walcot was there ever
Wifes Sister and his Nephew and his Daughter and his Neeces and a worshipful Knight and I know not who that the old Woman tells me are gone into my Countrey were all there at the same time and no body comes to testifie it but onely this Coachman and this old Woman These Gentlemen are things fit to be thought of But now let us consider how they agree in their Evidence Says the Woman I saw him not till the beginning of May but I am sure he was there before once or twice And how does she know that because the Coachman told her so and he came there several times but he did Dine there but once and when he came there the first time she saw him he came in such a disguise and he had a short Perriwig and a kind of short white Coat and a white Hat but when my Coachman comes to swear he tells you the first time he saw him the Woman saw him too that he had his own Hair and cut close to his cars that made him look as the young fellow told her like a Quaker And when I asked the Coachman Are you sure that Benjamin the young Fellow did see him the first time you saw him there he told me No but he was sure the old Woman did look out of the window and see him which she denies I then asked him how often he dined there he tells you several times and there were such and such and the old Woman did see him dine there several times which she denies that she ever saw him dine there above once And I take notice of one of the Evidence the Coachman he gives but an odd sort of reason for his remembrance In February says he my Lady died and my Master was sick at Putney and Oates came into the Yard while I was cleaning my Coach and I am sure it was where the Coat of Arms hung over the door because he asked me about my Ladies death and therefore it must be in May when for ought does appear to the contrary it might be in any other Month after the Escutcheon was up and in the other circumstances there is no certainty at all So that it is plain these Witnesses swear according as their humour leads them and not according to any remembrance they have of the thing And I rather believe it because the third Witness that is Page the Apothecary that used to make up Sir Richard Barker's Medicines gives an Evidence contrary to both those he cannot remember the year positively or particularly but I 'll tell you how he thwarts and contradicts the other peoples Testimony for he remembers he came in such a disguife but he believes no body spoke to him but himself because he found him walking in the place that was for the common reception of the Patients and he asked for Dr. Tongue and he not being within he went away very discontented and so now these three Witnesses seem to contradict one another and the last Witness Walker who is the Parson he says nothing to the matter for it does plainly appear the time which he speaks of which was about a year and a half before he was call'd to testifie at the five Jesuits Tryal must be in the year 77 and not in the year 78 which is the Question here which must be before he went first to St. Omers Gentlemen the other part of Mr. Oates's Defence has been upon this Topick says he I have been believed heretofore the Parliaments have given me credit and to prove it he has call'd several Noble Lords and Persons of Quality The first was my Lord of Devonshire who says he cannot remember any particulars of his Evidence 't is so long since but he remembers the Parliament upon the Evidence given of the Plot did make such Votes as we do all know of And there were a great many people that gave credit to his Testimony who God be thanked are of another opinion now And my Lord of Clare says he was not in the House of Lords at the beginning of the Discovery and cannot remember any thing in particular But my Lord of Huntingdon was a little more particular and Mr. Oates began to be angry with him because he spoke so much says he I remember Mr. Oates was examin'd in the House of Lords and was believed there because they did believe he spoke truth at that time but now upon consideration of the Contradictions and Falsities of his Evidence I cannot but say I do believe him says he to be a great Villain and that he has been guilty of spilling innocent Bloud And this Noble Lord speaks with great Honour and Consideration And truly I believe if every man that is here were to speak his mind my Lord has delivered the Opinions of us all and many thousands more in the Nation Mr. Oates call'd next my Lord Chief Baron my Brother Gregory my Lord of London Sir George Treby Mr. Williams and my Brother Dolben But they all tell you they are able to give no particular Answers to his Questions and this was the sum of his Evidence To this Mr. Attorney General has given a Reply of Evidence that truly is of very great moment First here is produced Sir George Wakeman whom Oates accused of High-Treason and he suffered his Tryal and was acquitted so that as well as the Jury had given credit to him in the former Verdicts so says Mr. Attorney I must speak likewise for the credit of that Verdict that did disbelieve him because though he did swear as roundly and briskly up to the matter as he had done before yet when he had not the hurry and surprize of his Discovery to support him his Villany was detected and the Innocent acquitted And besides the Record of the acquittal here is the Person himself who is now under no dread or danger having stood his Tryal and being acquitted and he takes it upon his Oath in the presence of the Great God the Searcher of Hearts That whatsoever Oates swore against him at his Tryal was every tittle of it false And this Acquittal of his being after great and mature consideration is an Evidence of anothergets quality than the Verdicts of the other Convictions Next to him is my Lord Castlemain a Person of very great Honour and he gives an account he was arraigned of High-Treason at this Bar and upon his Tryal Oates was produced as a Witness against him and there he swore he met with my Lord Castlemain in Lincolns-Inn-Fields and great familiarity there was between them so that my Lord could not trust him in a less affair than the Plot and away he goes with him to Fenwick's Chamber there to talk about a Designe of killing the late King Mr. Oates of all mankind must be the great Repository of this Secret but the Jury then being Persons of great Understanding and Integrity did not believe Oates but acquitted my Lord Castlemain And he does here take it